Companies Shouldn't Ask for "Pay History"

turn myself around. Okay, but it just looks so sad, so sad. But we're going to power through anyway. I'm so happy to be here with you all today. I'm riding solo. I have two oof, big juicy questions from our be A fan. We got one from Julieta, who is dealing with a company that's asking for her salary history, like what is this nineteen eighty four? And then a future mom in distress as she calls herself, who's dealing with a huge dilemma when it comes to her maternity leave.

So I'm gonna jump right in, y'all, you got me Mandy Money, your favorite career coach. I am going to jump right on in. So let's start with Julieta from Instagram. All right, she says, ladies, I was part of tech layoffs and I was recently laid off from Spotify in November. I am very excited to be a few rounds into a new position at a different tech company. But they just asked for my salary history. I keep imagining you two looking at me and saying, this is when it happens,

this is where the paid disparity begins. Girl, How should I respond? Okay, Julietta. When I saw your question, I was a little bit in disbelief because, first of all, asking for salary history is just I thought it was pretty well known at this point, way for the pay disparity to like never fix itself, to never be fixed, Like I thought that recruiting. I thought hr. I thought

we all knew this. It's not cool to ask for your salary history, and in fact, in many states, it's actually illegal for employers to ask for your previous compensation. I'm going to read the list, Julietta. I wish I knew what state you were in because I could actually

give you, you know, specific advice. But in many states Alabama, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin, they cannot ask for your previous compensation, Julieta. If you live in any of these states, and there

actually may be a couple of more. I haven't updated this list for twenty twenty four yet, but if you live in if you need, if you're wondering if they can ask you for your salary history, don't answer the question. Go and check. I have to think that they're a big tech company. They know what they're doing. They should have a team that understands these employment law. But still it's worth looking into. Now, let's say that you're in a state where it's still legal to ask for your

salary history. Julietta, your instincts are so spot on. Do not answer that question. They can't make you answer it, I would say, And actually, I'm looking at my nail. The Negotiation Script bundle. It has like twenty five scripts that you can use to negotiate, and I'm going to send you a copy because I have a whole page on how to answer questions about your current compensation. So

let me quote myself. Here's what you can say. I don't feel comfortable sharing my current compensation as it doesn't accurately reflect my current market value or take into a consideration the unique duties and responsibilities for this role. That's a solid response. Also, I want to explain sort of why you don't want to answer this question. The obvious answer is because what if the job you're in now has nothing to do with the job you're about to take.

What if it's been a few years since you started at the job you're at now, and your salary, like your market value has increased because your skills are more in demand or there's more demand for workers who do what you do, but there's not that many workers out there who are doing what you do, so you're more rare, you're more niche. You don't want to base your current

salary expectations on whatever you're earning now. Also, if you've been someplace for several years, it's just a fact that you're likely underpaid for your market value because when you work for a company for many years, you're getting those incremental little three percent lifestyle inflation. Not lifestyle you're getting those three percent cost of living increase in your pay to try to keep keep pace with inflation, which wasn't even doing that because of how high inflation had gotten

over the past few years. So it's very likely that you've been in a job for the past few years and you've just been getting those standard cost of living raises each year. You're probably going to be worth more if you bring yourself out into the marketplace and start looking for jobs now and negotiating. That's just a fact. That's why I talk about the power of quitting or

at least entertaining other job offers. You know, as you are working at your current employer, it's always good practice like take those job interviews, because you may end up getting to a space where they tell you what this expected salary range is. You don't even need a formal job offer at that point. That's enough in my mind to go to a manager, go to your boss and say, hey, I've been getting interest from a competitor. They're saying the salary range is X y Z. That's you know, twenty

percent more than what I'm making here right now. I would love to stay. Is there anything we can do to increase my compensation? That is, that's one of the best ways, if not the best way to get your job to actually come correct and give you a big fat raise. Otherwise, like, what incentive do they have to just pay you your market value? Companies won't just do

that automatically. You're going to need to show them that you actually have a concrete offer from another company or concrete data from your own research to justify, you know, the raise that you're asking for. Also, Jujulieta, what you hinted at in your question is also the pay disparity

for women and women of color. Like, it's pretty well known that over the course of our careers, women of color we tend to be underpaid, definitely compared to white men, but also white women, we tend to be underpaid and undervalued. And if you started your career and let's say over the course of you know, the first few years, you are getting the lowest pay. You know, there's the hiring

managers have a bias towards you. They don't think you're ready for higher pay, they don't think you've done enough for promotion, then that unfair bias is like baked into your compensation. And if you tell them what your current compensation is, that could just like continue the trend because they're going to base whatever salary they give you off of that number, and that number could be too low already.

All right, So just remember this as you guys are out there, if you're looking for a new job, you want to forget what you're currently compensated at and do the research, do the legwork to figure out what the current market value of the role that you're going after is worth. Okay, Like I say, you know, my favorite analogy, You wouldn't put your home on the market, you know, ten years after you bought it and expect to get

exactly what you paid for it ten years ago. Your home probably has increased in value right now you want to take into account. Okay, So what are other homes of a similar size and a similar zip code? What are they going for today? Not ten years ago? Today? So treat yourself the same way. And I mentioned job interviewing as one of my favorite, you know, top ways to get that kind of information about what your current

market value is. But you can also use publicly available data from sites like Glassdoor, from payscale, from salary dot com. Asking your peers and asking people who work for other companies in a similar space, Hey, what do you think is a reasonable salary? Asking your peers what they think is a reasonable salary is also a great way. But I'm really glad that you asked this question. I wish

they could have. I'm waiting for the day when this will be like a federally banned you know, a question banned by the federal government at the at the countrywide level, at the US at the federal level. But as it stands, many states, like I said, have been banning this. So check your state see what the laws are there before you answer this question. And like I said, even if it's legal where you live, you have to find a way to not answer this. Why. Okay, all right, thank

you for your question, Julieta. I'm going to take a quick break and then we'll come back with our next question from future mom in distress. Oh, this is going to be a tough one, y'all. Come on back. All right, I'm back, y'all. Mandy and the stew writing solo for today's BAQ and a we have a question from Instagram, and this person wants to be called future mom in distress. It's already distressing enough being a future mom, like when you add career crap on top of it. Let's get

into this. You can I got you? Okay? All right? You say, I'm having a Matt leave dilemma. I have been at my company for a little over two years and have been receiving positive annual performance reviews each year. I've been working towards the promotion, but my manager has been supportive and advised me to wait until this recent cycle to go for the promotion because of an arbitrary rule that I need to have at least two years

in the job before being considered for promotion. As I keep working on my promotion filling in my latest achievements, turns out we had to change in management. All of the sudden, our whole team is being told we aren't performing at the caliber they expect and have even been threatened with something that sounds a lot like a PIP performance improvement plan if we don't shape up. This is all sounding very fishy and like they're on a path

to cut staff. While all of this is happening, I found out I'm expecting a baby and I'm going to be out on maternity leave in just a few months. Aside from the threat to my employment and maternity leave benefits, I'm feeling stunted and unsupported in my career growth. It also sounds like they're building a case that would make a layoff during my matt leave legal due to performance issues. What is your advice on how to handle this situation?

Aside from doing my best to balance performance improvement while I'm also nesting, should I start looking at other teams to get transferred to. Thanks for all the wisdom you share each week. Sincerely, future mom and distress whoah you know. I wish I could say that it was like when it comes to layoffs that companies are like, save the women and children first. But this ain't the Titanic. Okay,

this ain't a shipwreck. And unfortunately we have seen you see the stories I've heard from coaching clients of mine, I've heard from BA FAM, you see it on Twitter on social media. They don't care if you got a bun in the oven, if the bun just came out your body, if it's due any day now, Like companies have no problem laying off working moms while they're on maternity leave. So even if you get to your matt leave, there's a chance you might get the news that you

have been let go. That actually happens. I wish it wasn't so, but it is possible. So I think that to be realistic. You're seeing some clear indications. I agree with you that they are planning to be their planning to cut jobs in the near future. I would start preparing yourself for that for that to happen. I don't know what kind of severance you may get, you know,

neither do you until it actually happens. But you know, standard like you've been there maybe about two years, you said, so, I mean you can expect probably two months of severance. That would be very you know, pretty on board. Maybe three months of severance. I don't know what kind of company it is, if it's tech or you know, financial or whatnot, but maybe two to three months of severance.

So you know, that's something that you hopefully will have to, you know, fill in the gap while you're looking for another job. But there's no reason why you shouldn't be looking for a new job right now. You know, when you're interviewing for a job. There's nothing that says you are required to reveal to them that you are pregnant while you are in the job interview practice process. Now, you may choose to let them know that you are expecting so that they can plan your higher date appropriately.

And a lot of great companies are out there and they will wait for you. You know. I've actually had a friend of mine who's a guy, his wife had a baby, and his company offered six months of maternity leave. It was Google. Okay, Google is just krem de la creme for benefits, right, But they actually said, okay, cool, your baby's do in August, so we'll put your start data is January. Okay. So that's an extreme example, but there are other companies that you know will say, well,

we offer three months of you know, maternity leave. You can take that upfront, or we understand you can start in June and then you'll leave in July and come back in September or whatever it may be. So there's flexibility that can happen there. And if you're a great candidate in a job, employers are smart enough to know

that you're worth waiting for. You know, it's better for them to take advantage of of a great candidate right now than to potentially lose you to someone else by letting you, you know, by letting you go, and then you'll you know, find another job and they'll still be looking out there. So that's a possibility for you as far as like how to handle this new management that's come into town and is now telling you that you're

actually not meeting expectations. Take that for what it's worth. Listen, at some level, could they be you know, cracking down and really increasing their expectations so that they can identify the not the poor performers, but the lower performers so that they can you know, at least have some some data or at least some kind of justification when they

do make those cuts. Now, that could very well be the case a lot of you know, you've seen with the tech layoffs that started kicked off for the last year and the year before, you did see companies going through and basically telling hiring managers like, we need to

get a lot more strict with these performance reviews. Everybody can't miss expectations or sorry, everybody can't meet or exceed expectations, like they've got a lot more hands on with the review process so that they could identify the lowest performers so that at least when they go to make job cuts, it's like, okay, and I'm not mad at it, because

it makes sense. It's better than just like having an arbitrary like if you started after you know, before this date or after this date, we're going to cut you, or if you're in this team, or going to cut the whole team. Sometimes you do need to trim the fat a little bit when it comes to your staff, and like trim staff who aren't performing well. That is, you know, that is a part I think of building

and growing a healthy company. And it's also not fun to work alongside people who are slacking, right, So I'm not mad at it, and I can understand where it's coming from. I also I know how shitty it is to hear one thing from the manager that you have and then they leave. You get a new one and

they've got a whole new set of rules. That's what happens in corporate, Like new management comes in, a new CEO comes in, you get a new boss, or your boss gets a brand new boss, and they're more focused on this thing, and all of a sudden, it's like, Okay, here was the here's the benchmark, here's the goal that you're trying to reach, except forget all that, we have

new goals to reach. You want to be flexible, and it's good for anyone listening and especially for you future mom, to go ahead and get in the mind space of what I'm being told right now can totally change. It's going to make you a better employee. Like bosses are going to love it when you just go with the flow and you understand that things can change. You know, companies, goals can change, companies, business model can change. And can

you be flexible? Can you understand where it's coming from and make the changes that need or are you going to like be the person who's like, well it used to be this way, Wow, I don't like change. That is what's going to separate you from the kind of person that they want to keep around. They want to keep because they're like, Okay, this person is on board. They understand how the business works, they understand things may change, and they will roll with it. They will adapt, they

will be flexible, adaptable all those things. I'm not saying that means you have to be walked over, and certainly it doesn't mean that you know, you should be getting these like you know, feedback that's not constructive, or you know, being being told you have to reach these really high

expectations that are like super impossible. No, we don't want that, but I do think on some level everybody should be comfortable with the idea that what you're being told currently in your job from your manager about what you need to be doing, what tasks are, you know, what your responsibilities you have, what the next six months are going to look like, that that can all change at the drop of the hat, especially when we're in sort of a volatile or a little bit of a volatile job market.

Right now, let me see you say that you're feeling stunted and unsupported in your career growth. I'm I can see that. I also feel like it's an opportunity for you with this new manager coming in to express that and to say I hear everything that you're saying. I mean, I just want you to understand that the you know, previous manager set certain expectations and I work to achieve those. I would love some support and you know, love some support in some direction because I want to be able to,

you know, rise to this level that you're expecting. Now, I care about this work, I'm invested in this work, and I you know, just show that you are. You know, you're listening and you're hearing, and you're open to the change that they're proposing, so that they are Like I said that, I think that'll help them think of you as someone that they want to keep around if they really are thinking about making cuts in the future. Sometimes, yes, it is about performance, but it's also about attitude and

energy that you bring to the job. And if you keep that in a positive place, you show that you are open to the changes that they are bringing to the table, then I think you'll have a better shot of staying around even than the person who's you know, killing expectations but questioning everything, why are we doing this? Why are we doing that? Honestly, sometimes the best people to keep around are the ones who can just go with the flow. Okay, let me see, that's a lot.

I know it's a lot to manage while you're also expecting a baby, But coming from so experience in that, I would say, do all the big things while the babies and it still cooking, you know, in the crackpot, because it's much easier to make those sorts of decisions before giving birth, at least in my experience. Like other moms may have different insights, but you know, your whole

your whole biology changes after you have a baby. Your brain is like soup, and there's so much for you to be focused on, and you should be focused on that. You know that baby as much as you can. So I would really be investing more time into your networking right now, looking for your next opportunity, just having options. You know, if you happen to survive this round of layoffs,

well there could always be another one, you know. So that's why I'm always encouraging workers to always be looking, keep your options open, keep your network warm, and by that I mean, you know, engage with people that you used to work with, let them know what you're up to, so that if something happens and you're going to need to be out there asking folks for referrals or asking folks if they know of anything open, it's not going to be the first time that they've heard from you.

You know that they're actually like they remember you, They have a good experience with you, and they're going to be more likely to answer that LinkedIn DM or respond to your email at that point. All right, future mom and distress, I hope that you are taking care of yourself in all of this. You are growing another human being, which is you know, incredible but requires a lot of energy.

But I know that you can get through this. I think you just got to change your mindset and be less about Oh but it used to be this way. Why are things changing? This isn't fair and more of Okay, this is happening. I'm going to rise to the occasion and make the most of it. But I'm not going to let them catch me slipping. I'm going to update my resume, I'm going to reach out to my network.

I'm going to look for other opportunities. I'm going to check out the best companies with the best maternity leave policies, you know, in the space that I work in, and I'm going to target those companies so that I know I'm going to be going to a place is going to take care of me as a working parent and be unapologetic about that and getting what you need. All Right, I thank you so much for your question. I hope that that helps send us updates. We love hearing from y'all.

Hit us up Broad Ambition Podcast on Instagram. You can slide into our dms there and so we just love hearing and sharing y'all's updates. So same for Juliet to let me know what happens with that job in tech that's trying to get into your business of your salary history. Mm mmm, that's not okay and future mom let me know what happens and good luck with everything. Thank you so much, ba Faan again. Reach out to us. We

are Brand and Mission Podcast on Instagram. You can also send us your send us an email at Brandnamission Podcast at gmail dot com. Until next week, see you guys. Bye,