Hey, ba fam, welcome back to another week, another Brown table.
Now.
I don't know why I didn't think of this brown table sooner, But when I was thinking about what I was going to say to y'all the day after, the couple of days after you know what has just happened in this country January twentieth, on MLK Day of all days, I just knew that I did not want to be at the Brown table by myself. And I thought back to a couple of guests that we had not that long ago. You've both been on the show, I think
in the past like six months. So we have Dsha Dyer, who of course is the author of my favorite read of twenty twenty four, Undiplomatic. Yes, you know, Aaron, when you got a book, I'll have yours too.
I listen, I'll get write on it.
Hey, yeah, when you have your free time, just like write a whole book. It's fine. Dsha Dyer is here. She was a former White House Social secretary, which I learned in the last interview with Dsha does not mean social media and means she literally put on massive events, massive moments, some iconic moments like the twenty sixteen party. What was it the Black Party at what was the literal?
Yeah, love and happiness the BT Party, Yeah, yeah, nice iconic.
What's a part of the Obama administration? You got to go check out her book on diplomatic It's just I don't know for every I just feel like if you're someone who ever felt out of place, you know where you're working, and ever felt like there were some places like DC that were out of reach for you, like
this book is just waw Chef's kiss. And then we have a friend of the show, Aaron Haynes, aka the editor at large of the Nineteenth Amendment or the Nineteenth, sorry, the Nineteenth, And she has a newsletter that is called the Amendment, And so y'all got to go check that out. And also, I mean I feel like at the Amendment, I mean, sorry, at the Nineteenth, can I get the name right? That would be the bare minimum to do, Like I will try that.
It's been a long couple of days, it has not at the Nineteenth.
I mean y'all have been y'all have been such a voice and advocate and for you know, underserved communities, for women,
for bipop voices, and you just do brilliant work. But I just wanted to get together with y'all and see how you're feeling, and like we've been saying, like acknowledge that community and being together and supporting each other and creating space where we can just thrive and feel safe together and support one another is So it's like the only way I can see surviving the next for plus, I don't know how many years we have ahead of us.
So I just want to say thank y'all for joining me and welcome to the Brown table.
There are now too, I mean right, like it's it's not you know because for all the talk that you know was around maybe eight years ago about the resistance, now it's it's really just about resilience and and black women being in community. Like I'm seeing so much of that.
Yeah, we have to at this point because I think that that it really is that we all we got, you know what I mean, Like, I think that is the honest of God truth. And I'm hoping that the communities that we curate will be open to other black women coming in these spaces, you know, like stout gatekeeping, like we all need each other at this point to survive for real, for real.
Talk about how are we going to talk about the gatekeeping. OMG, yes, you should come in and spy.
Is that what you mean by that? What do you mean? Who's gate keeping?
You know? I'm spicy.
No.
I think that there is a certain I mean like, remember, I've lived in two worlds, Like I've lived in the political White House world and I've lived in like the Philly world, and I think that they are completely separate. I think they don't listen to each other. I think that like the political world is full of our amazing
black women politicals and journalists and all that. But I'm like, when's the last time you'll actually been in the streets, you know what I'm saying, Like to be honest, like you're talking from a pulpit, So when's the last time you actually talked to people in the streets instead of talking on behalf of people in the streets. And I just I'm just hoping that we can kind of I'm not trying to coom baya. We don't all need to intermingle, but there needs to be some more There needs to
be some more conversations, some real conversations around stuff. And like it's like, yeah, I get in no respect disrespect to anybody, but I get people's profession, but it's just like, again, when was the last time you actually spend time in a community for real, for real, not for your job, but for real.
You know.
So I'm hoping that we we open the flood gates and stop being all like you know, I'm over here, hoity twitty. You don't have an invite? That's just corny.
You don't you don't have an invite. That's the thing. M No, I think it's Crockett. Yeah.
I feel like she's so real, so authentic, like you just know that she is still you know, down with the people, and she's like in Texas and with her people. And I think that's why it's so refreshed for me. I'm like, oh, a black woman, that's not code switching, you know. Well during a congressional hearing, it's fresh.
That part, but like, yeah, the respectability piece really does raise questions about whose contribution is valuable, right, like who does get the invite? H and who does who deserves or doesn't deserve to be in the room. And it's like no, it's I mean, like what happened to strength and numbers? You know? I think you know, and for all the talk about you know, black women are not
a monolith, or you know black people are not a monolith. Well, I mean, then let's show the range of those black folks and and and and bring all of their perspectives to what this work is.
Yeah, one hundred percent. And I think that that's why I feel like sometimes I go in rooms it's like we're working on behalf of black women in America, and I'd be like, that's interesting because this room looks like the top tier of Black women in America. So I just and that's cool.
These black women seem to be doing Okay, say that that on mind.
We should we should party, do whatever you want to do, but say that, like we coming together and have a good time. Just say that because that's enough that we allowed the joy like that. But don't be like, you know, we're here to represent the poor and this that where they at? Though? Where at? Because I can represent themselves themselves. So that's what I mean by that, Mandy, to go back to, you know, I have no behavior.
Yes, So what made y'all say yes? Why did y'all want to be here?
Oh?
My god, Andy, it's always a yes from you. Are you kidding? Me, and I mean Dsha's icing on the cake. So like, no, this was this was an automatic yess. But I do think I have found myself gravitating to spaces where I can be hearing from other black women, where I'm in conversation with other black women about what this moment means, uh, specifically for us.
Uh.
You know, the nineteenth is named for the nineteenth Amendment, and I went into the election feeling like it was largely an election about the until business is the nineteenth Amendment? Right? So like, especially as it pertains to race and gender, right, So like, what is the unfinished business of the nineteenth Amendment specifically for black women? Like I'm thinking about that constantly, and so yeah, this is just like one more opportunity to be able to think about and talk about that.
So yeah, obviously I'm here.
Okay, good?
And I had I saw Aaron Hayes and I was like, oh, oh.
Oh, soe y'all go way back. I don't know what the prize, but what did y'all meet? How far back to y'all got?
We met a long time ago, but Aaron was my conversation partner in Philly for the book. I was well yeah, before before she left us, but yes, but yeah, I was like.
Please don't ask me our origin story becau D. She's like one of those people's like I don't remember not knowing her. I mean obviously during during the Obama era, but like, I really don't. I could not tell you the first time that we actually interacted. But I mean, yeah, it's like I just you know, she was just one of those people that of course that you collect, I mean, you can't help it.
And yeah, I love the way you put that collect and I think that there's that and I think that also just like I you know, I'm always vocal, so it's not a big deal, but I think people know me as a diplomatic vocal in a way or whatever. So sometimes my opinions or thoughts about the world aren't they I don't really give it out in a lot
of spaces in like a journalist way. So I think that the way I feel right now is like, I mean, gloves have always been off from Philly, but I feel like it's one of these things where right now I'm just like I don't it's not I don't care who doesn't get offended, but it's just like I'm over it, like I'm just over it, Like I'm over us being in different spaces. I'm over you know, us feeling like we're not qualified. We have to change ourselves like I'm done.
I'm done. And so any opportunity to be with black women and make sure that we reinforce that for each other just by our presence is I'm going to those things. And also to say space is the same space for us to be together, like that's not always the case. I see for Aaron going out and doing her job, like it's not safe out there for us everywhere. So if there's a space where we can be together, like a safe space for us to talk, like, count me in.
I'm gonna show up pajama's hair and a bonnet whatever, I'm gonna show.
Up, not a bonnet.
Yes, my birthday party was like my birthday dinner. I said, everybody come as is. We had black women at our little table. Everybody came as is, hair, rats the job, Like it was just like this is just our space.
I can't know my bonnets. My sons steal them and they think they're fun hats.
They're like, I'm a chef, Come on, chef's hat costs.
So it's not a good bonnet. Not the good bonnet.
This is long.
It's all I got.
It's like, no, it's a parachute for my my monster truck. No it's not. But okay, if it gets.
I love the imagination, right man.
I Also, I don't know if I if I'm naive or what, but certain some big things happen the summer of twenty twenty and before that that like completely disillusioned me from the idea that I could really bring my whole self to a corporate space. And I just want to, like, I want to hold space and just acknowledge the women of color who are still out there working in these spaces where they are you know, the first a few, the onlyes the difference, and are existing in that space.
I'm lucky that I was able to branch out and start my own thing at a pivotal time when I was just you know, you know, like thrown on my ass and given that big wake up call. And I almost feel like there's this this shift now where we are not playing the game anymore. It's like we're not like a lot of women, like we're not trying to coach switch, We're not trying as hard to believe them when they say that we're valued and that we have these, you know, programs to advance you in your career, and
we really want you, we want this diversity. I mean, I just feel like this country has shown us one too many times that it actually doesn't value us or and it won't it won't. Like we can't rely on them to give us a seat at any table, and if we want to be at those tables, we have to do it our damn selves, with each other's support one.
And what I would say to that too is I feel like this is a feeling that I've had for so long, for years and years, but you know, there wasn't a platform. We didn't you know, we have more social media to talk about things now, more ways to connect.
So you sit in isolation thinking that it's just you, you know what I mean, who thinks this way or experiencing Then all of a sudden we find out that it's so many of us, which is disturbing, but also it's just like there's a comfort of being like, oh, nothing's wrong with me, something's wrong with y'all, Like you know, there and I think that we are finally like that's all rising to the surface of being like no, like it's not but it's not us, like it's y'all, like
something's wrong, and now we can talk to each other and have these conversations just to know that, you know, we're dope human beings, like of course this country doesn't love us back, but we love ourselves. And I think that, you know, I've been very blessed that black women have been in my corner hell a high water and have not. You know, some definitely disappointed me, like just human beings, but for the most part, like listen, I'm ready to
you know, I'm right, and I'm right. Everybody knows I'm always ready to fight.
So how did you survive in the White House? I can't think of a more I can't think of a more like majority white institution where like authenticity is such bullshit and when if they say that, they don't mean that, you know, like Michelle Obama did not like she's silk pressed for that long because she knew one and you.
See she got braids now, yes, and we're done, we're done with the nights to see.
Her be free. And she's like, no, I'm not going, I'm not doing it. But how did you survive in the White House? D show like yourself?
Yeah. I think one of the things for me is that I went there when I was in my thirty so it's a little bit different. And I've never I never had an eye on Washington. I didn't even know what it was like, and so I went in as like this person who had this magical like the Obamas, and how can I take the stuff I know in Philly to the White House. So I never I didn't want to stay after that. I didn't want a career, so I didn't. It was a different vibe that I was like, how can I go here and make change
and do some things? But then dip like I'm out, Like I'm not, you know. So I think that I never was snowed like I want to go to this party and there's nothing wrong with going. But I never really cared about those invites or being seen. I was just like, I just love what I do enough, and
so I you know, I survived barely. You know, it was definitely like a black president and first Lady doth not make you know, an entire comfortable environment for anybody, because there was still a lot of whiteness I had to go through, you know, but I was okay with that, and I'm still okay with that. I'm okay with being talked about, and I'm okay with not getting invites to stuff or being that one who brings up black stuff that I'm good, I'm doing great and so yeah, but you know, I mean I.
Think the thing too, dsha Abauta. I mean, yes, we are definitely gonna bring it back to the Philly of it all, because it's like, well, first of all, I'm from Philly, So like, do you really think that you can intimidate like you you would not be the most intimidating person that I've ever encountered, right like like it like in the White House, that's number one. And I
think too, I mean, I love, I do think. Like I said, I don't remember our origin story exactly, but what I do remember, No, what I do remember is that, Okay, this is somebody who is so unapologetic and so like outspoken just about you know, the path that got her
to this place. Like I went to community college too, but I didn't think about how like formative that was or like how important it was even to signal to other people like, yes, somebody that went to community college is now at this point in their career like this amazing this person who you think is like fully formed and has like made it or what. No, like you need to understand that this was part of the journey
and shout out to you know, community college. Have just listening to this pod right now because like that.
Was saving that money, saving him thousands of dollars and not going into debt.
Yes, exactly. You think this is the hardest thing I've ever done, or you think that this is this you think you people are you know, the scariest people I've ever come up against.
No, and thank you for that. I think that thank you for this love fast that we could before. But I was gonna say too. And the thing is like my life that there's so mu stuff has happened in my life that's even not in the book. But I think that people didn't understand that when I came to the White House, I had been through so much that I don't think I need to justify it or say for to get people's sympathy or empathy. So when stuff happened, I was like, I don't think you understand I'm not
here to get my name known. I'm here so I can make sure my nieces and nephews go to college. I'm here to make sure I can retire. I'm making sure that if a medical bill comes up with my family, I'm able to help pay it. So we on different we on different playing grounds. You're like, you're not the same, We're not the same, and that's okay, that's completely fine. So I was on a different track to be like, you know what I'm saying, let me figure this out.
And I'm still figuring it out. But anyway, that's why I love y'all because I met you on that track. So yes, something right.
All right, Aaron? So what are you thinking like for the nineteenth move? I mean, you have a podcast, you have a platform, you work for this organization. I sometimes I'm so I'm I'm obviously so proud of you at everything you've accomplished, but I'm also happy for you to be at a platform like this where you don't have to leave your identity at the door, which I think for when I was, you know, when I was coming up and studying journalism, that was still sort of the expectation.
And you're objective, So how do you approach the work now, I mean it's a important that ever, Yeah.
I mean, and it's it's an important question, I think, especially at this moment. I mean, obviously we're entering, you know, this this new era in our politics. But it also happens this month to be the fifth anniversary of the nineteenth. If you don't believe it, we're already oh yes, yes, about to turn don listen take hello, yes do like Mandy, people hit that button. But no, I mean I think you know, we launched a week before the Iowa caucuses
in twenty twenty. I was at the Associated Press, which had been my dream job, the place that really raised me journalistically, but like, my voice was also very much that of an Associated Press newsperson, right, and you know, even as national writer on race, which is the job that I had before I became editor at large. As the nineteenth, like, I mean, yes, yes, I think that people could tell, you know, like when they were reading an Aaron Haynes story, like when they were seeing my byline.
But I do think that I have found my voice so much more, you know, at the nineteenth, like people, really, I really do feel like I'm in conversation with our
audiences and that's really important to me. So I have to say, I mean, we're recording this podcast on the day after, you know, day one of this new administration, and I cannot say how proud I was to be working at the nineteenth on that day because the way that we just really did journalism that met the moment that we were in, I mean just all over the executive orders, all over you know, kind of the optics
and the rhetoric of that day. I wrote a column about the fact that, you know, Vice President Harris and Hillary Clinton literally had to sit there watching as the person that defeated them, you know, was being sworn into office for the second time. It was it was a lot,
but we were ready. And so like I am in this moment, I cannot say how energized I feel to be doing this work at a place that you know, obviously we thought that it was needed five years ago, but like five years ago, this was a president that was on his way out of office, and at our five year anniversary, this is somebody who is coming back into office. And so what does that mean for the people that we like for and about.
I will say I want I love one Aaronfast too, because I will say that even if you don't read it's her name on the thing, you almost I almost know it's Aaron. Like sometimes I'll just start reading something without knowing who it is. But the fact that it talks about different perspectives and it's talked to people in the community is very not just people you know that are at the park or whatever. Like Aaron really does that well. And I'm so I always know what I'm reading.
I'm like, who is it? Because I'm like, is I'm a new journalist? Oh I was a you know what I mean? Like it's like, oh, no, was Aaron? Of course? Is Aaron? You know what I mean? So I love I love reading as.
I do too, especially the Hillary and the Kamala. At that moment, it is like you looking for Okay, so what are the stories through my POV that I think are for you to sort of like making, you know how like when a lens and a camera lens like zooms in and the rest kind of fades out and you just like zero one of those little moments and yes, I mean, and and to humanize them as two women who are I don't know how hard it must have
been to be in those seats. But I'm glad that you were there to like shine a light on or even just try to imagine for them what it might be. Yeah, and to encourage us. All. One person who got a lot of shine was Katanji Brown Jackson. Yes, she showed up, and I mean she was like the only highlight. I mean, I I went out.
I Vogue learn Vogue Vogue learned what Karras shells were yesterday.
That I think a lot of people did. To be fair, I did not know the significance I had only I mean, I feel like they were just one of those imagery, like so much imagery. It makes sense, but I never had looked into the the history of the Carie shell. Did they find out who made it for her?
I don't know.
I don't know, but I mean but it was it is so it was so beautiful and like to I mean obviously, like there are no cameras in the Supreme Court, so you know, it made me wonder, like how many times has she worn that on the bench and you know, because like that is her. I don't know what they can do, bib Doley, I don't know what. Obviously I'm
not a Supreme Court justice. But you know what I mean, like like like to envision her actually wearing that on the court like that just I mean, yeah, representation matters.
Yeah, I think it's also something that brings her peace. Like I know sometimes I'll wear something or do something not even for representation, but it brings me peace and may bring an So like, yeah, you brings you closer to like you know, you're at the Supreme Court and you're in you know, the chambers or whatever, and you know you're communities out there, but they're kind of far,
you know, they're not with you. Sometimes you do feel like I have this close to me, and I feel it gives me a little bit of reassurance that like I'm close to my center, you know. So I think that that also for me, is what I saw in that yesterday, is like I'm close to my I'm not even I wasn't even trying to wear this for everybody. I'm trying to wear it from me, so I don't
look if you buck you know. So I think that it's just like you know, like this is you know right here, which I think is beautiful.
And I think it is a I mean, it is a signal to black Americans, his Western right. I mean, they see that that they may not know the entire significance, but they're like, Okay, this is a statement. This is this is definitely a stef And that was I mean I mentioned even in the column, you know, just I mean Hillary Clinton had on like this blue that you
just really couldn't miss. And then you know, and I thought back to, you know, twenty seventeen when she was at inauguration when she had to watch him get toorn in the first time. You know, she's wearing like this suffrage white suit and it was a suit that she would have worn she been taking the oath of office. So like I mean, for especially for women, there's always you know, fashion is political, like there's always a statement like ps I mean, uh, Milania Trump definitely was making
a statement yesterday too with that happening. I don't know what the statement was, but she.
Was making one.
I didn't see her ass for the entire day.
Were you there, Aaron or were you watching? Okay, yeah, I was.
I was in the warm embrace of my living room.
Okay, safe safe.
Mark say, during the inauguration of yahow five oh Man, So Disha, you know you have been active in the I don't know how active, but I was one of the forty thousand who finally realized women when with black women was a thing over the summer when Kamala when I think it was yeah, when Joe So when Biden had backed out of the race and the door that Sunday and that was my and and since then I have been to many a Sunday call and I was
sad they didn't have one this past Sunday. I can see why, but for me, it's just kind of become a church like experience. I just go to just listen and to you know, I put it on while I'm
doing dishes. But Dshai saw that you had and you spoke about this too when you were on for BA. Like to think about the employees of the White House that are going out and going out into the job market, and could you speak a little bit on that, like what it's like to be kicked out of a job at a time like this and what it'll look like for them path forward career wise.
Yeah. I mean, and I'll give a shout out to Joetaka because I think one of the reasons why I like that call so much is because you don't have to be a certain anything to join that call you set that backs us to a phone. You know, there is no there is no any open. Everything's open. You know. If you want to join the call about fundraising with Star Jones, feel free. If you want to join the North Carolina delegation field free. There is no gatekeeping in that.
And I think that I try to get that message out, like just join and see what sticks with you. Don't got to be you know whatever. So that's what I really love it call. So I'll say that, but I think you know, when I left, I was definitely in for root awakening. I mean, like, nobody tells you that you know you got I got this high profile job, like yeah, I can run Google, Like what are you talking about? And then like you go there, You're like, oh wait, I can't. No, I can't do that, but
but I welcome the Pope. No, I can't do that. I remember the kids graduating from college, black kids and go into politics, and I was like, they're graduating during the Trump administration and during the pandemic, Like how to help these kids won't get these jobs? And so I started something called Call and Response just trying to help them navigate it a little bit, and I then stopped it because you know, my energy be like going on.
And then I started again for Black forty six, which is the black employees of the Harris Walls campaign or the left about the administration of Biden Harris. And I think that what I'm finding is a lot of them are just not and how would they be. This is not their fault that like you're coming out in the world that like you're not as marketable because you work for a democratic president and all this is under attack
what you worked for. So companies and corporations are going to be like, how can you help us on the inside get the things that we need when you don't know nobody there? When you know what I mean, Like it's a reality and its value, it's not value. So I think that for me, I try to have like we had some prayer calls, we did mental health sessions, we took a COMMS call, we did we have an LGBTQ, black and queer coming up. And I think that I just want to provide them space to be like we
could talk about it. Here's people who went through it from the Obama years. But Also I have a jobs board where like all my friends who are hired in different places, they give me their jobs and I can say, like, hey, my homegirl's applying, this person's applying, Like can you give them a boost, like, you know, look at their application. And that's all that I could really do. But it's really really hard because you know, you just so much. You know, you're so smart, you know you're so valued.
But with all this stuff rolling back, nobody has accountability to give you a fair shot. And that's just real life. And you know, I came out of there. I went on unemployment child until somebody got pregnant. The Ford Foundation my friend and she was like, I need a coverage. I was like, child, sign me up, you know what I mean. And that led to so much after that.
But I had to really like remember who I was before I went in the White House, and that's what I lean on to survive plus all these experiences that I have. So I'm trying, and it's hard, especially for these folks that are like not known as much as other folks. You know, it's just like you know, and so I'm trying to help as much as I can. But then also, like you know what I'm saying. I got to put my life jacket on too, because I'm
gonna you know, I have my own business. So we're all in the business of trying to also make money for our families and friends and ourselves and at the same time. But it's rough because all these people are out of jobs, you know, and it's and it's not easy. You know.
Oh, I got you what you need a negotiation coach. I can come help them negotiation.
Yes, yes, me, I get the MA job out of your.
AI for them resumes to fight the ats.
Yes, yes, yes. And I think, I mean I need that, madam self. But I think that that's where that's what I try to do. And I think that part of I use the Black forty four network, So I just use the network of people that I worked with the help, you know.
So I mean, yeah, I mean I think that's just for anyone too, to understand that your job doesn't love you back, and you need to be wheeling, dealing, being strategic about your career behind the scenes to make sure that you're marketable, to make sure that you you know, you know how to interview in today's market. And I mean,
I'm just thinking about the lineup behind Trump yesterday. Again I didn't try to watch, but I heard Zuckerberg, Besos Musk, Tim Cook like it was a white man's Silicon Valley reunion up there, and it's just like, these are the leaders of these massive companies that so many of us, so many women's, many people of color like, would love to work at, and they're dismantling DEI programs like I used to, programs like you said, Aaron, and they are they are clearly doing what they got to do to
survive really and to keep their valuations high on Wall Street. And it's the last like I mean, if that we needed one more signal, but that's just a big ass signal that we're not. They're not here to really uplift and support us no matter what it's. They will put their own life jackets on first, right, which.
I think is also important of why I'm so big on like making sure that black women understand their core who they are and how amazing that they are, because you're going to get job rejections and you're going to get all these things, and after a while, you're going to start to think it's you, and it's like it's not you, and I want you to I want you to separate yourself from that only because you will get depressed thinking that you're not good enough. No no, no, no, it's
not you. It's so that's why I also try to really pour into them, like I get it, Like I'm also speaking from privilege, you know, like I have a job and I have a husband, who you know what I mean, So I try to be really understanding. But I'm like, I want you to understand how wonderful you are. And I don't know how many times I have to tell you that, but I want to keep telling you because I can't get you all the jobs in the world. But I want you to understand that you're cure, that
you're you're good. You're good, but a failure is not not getting a job has nothing to do with you, honey, Like yeah, And so that's why I try.
Yeah, and I think, I mean, and as somebody who uh, I will say, has a little bit more life experience, right than maybe a lot of these folks that you are talking to, that does matter because you know, as black women, like there will be professional setbacks in our careers like that, like you know, and this may be the first one for a lot of them or any marginalized folks like that, like you're going to have a professional setback, and so reminding folks in that moment that
you need to tap into, right, the person that you were raised to be, tap into, you know the last time you you know, you overcame something, right, the last time that that or somebody in your life who overcame something that was a relative or a friend or somebody like, So that you know that like like you're going to be okay, right, like, and you're going to figure it out, because that's that's what we do. Yeah, that's what we do.
And so yeah, just just that that reminder when things feel especially hard is really really important because like we all have to tap into that at some point in our careers.
Yeah, and recognize that you have what you need to get through it.
Yes.
And one of the I just got finished with a really wonderful I did a five day career reboot challenge for women who were like stuck in their job search. And the first day I have them fill out this is a little aggressive, but a very long pedio. It's like nine I'll send it to if you guys want a nine pages just like really introspective questions, and a lot of the questions I'm asking are like, in a career crisis, here are the first three people I know
I can call and they'll have my back end. The last time that I was able to get myself out of a challenging situation was you know, fill in the blank. And the reason I asked those questions because I do think that we lose sight of all the resources and the support network that we already have, because it can feel like, you know, you're just like trying to make it.
It's so ef and hard. We all know that. But to build that inner resilience and that trust in yourself that I got me at the end of the day that some somehow between like I don't know the time for me anyway, the time I graduated college to like becoming a mom and you know, starting a business and stuff. Sometimes it's just easy to lose sight of that and just feel so overwhelmed that you that inner power starts to dim. So I'm so glad that you you mentioned.
Okay, well, first of all, send me that PDIA. Okay, I'm not stuck in mind.
I was like me too.
Here's the point of this like yes, Like for so many of us, we are so focused on just the incoming and triaging what is directly in front of us, like when is the last time maybe the pandemic honestly probably not for a lot of people, but like when you have a chance to actually sit still and ask yourself the big questions, right, like what it's the biggest
dream that I could possibly have for myself? I remember somebody asked me that I have, Like a money coach asked me that maybe like five years ago, maybe a little longer ago, but I was like in my early forties, and they asked me this, and I was embarrassed because I really did not have an answer, like I had never deeply thought about like if there were no obstacles, if you could do anything that you wanted to do next, what would that be?
Right?
And so like to yes, maybe it's a long work cheap, but like yes, to be able to ask yourself the big questions and not just the how am I going to get through my day week month questions right to my next direct deposit questions like what like that that's true matters and that matters now, And I mean for these people that you're helping d show like this is a time for them to be able to ask themselves
big questions, right to figure out what what what? How am I going to be intentional about the next thing that I do with all the gifts that I have? Mm hm like, because your gifts make room for you, but sometimes you got to make room for the gifts.
Right, that's right, you gotta get off the way.
That's what time it is right now. I agree, And I don't want people to lose sight of that, right because like there is a kind of doom and gloom hanging over for some people, right. I mean, let's be honest, ninety two percent of black women and and also a majority of black men, you know, vote did not vote for the president that we have now, and so they're just kind of wondering, how am I going to move forward?
How?
You know, where are my finding uh, you know, where are the wins for me? And you know, so asking those kinds of questions ensures that you were that you are still going to have wins regardless of who is who, who the occupant of the White House.
Is, and how it is important. I mean obviously, like there was some executive orders past that impacted me personally, like no more federal employee hires temporary, like a freeze on federal employee hires. My husband's in the middle of a job offer that is now basically like poof gone. And I have my sister is married to a trans man. And yesterday it was like, well, there are going to be two genders. You know, that's America will only recognize
two genders, Like what does it mean for them? And I there is that there is that anxiety of you know what that executive function can do? But then I for me, it just I mean I have a Sagittarius rising. I'm a Leo on and the Sagittarius rising, and like I'm deeply optimistic to the point where people are probably like girl, like get that pollyannathing off, like it's just
like too much. But I am like deeply optimistic because I think that there are other ways that we can resist in other ways, you know, small at the state, local levels, you know, really engaging with your local politics and you know, supporting and protecting as much as you can those loved ones, those those neighbors, the ones that you know are even more vulnerable and this environment and sticking your necks out for other people and like contributing to your community. I mean, I think that for me
is how I'm trying to focus. And I feel like every time I come to this microphone, I'm like, what do I say to her to make her feel more empowered and like everything that y'all are saying, more empowered and brave enough to think about what do I want for myself and to feel like it's possible in spite of all this, yeah, you know going on in the background, and we just have more examples of it too, seeing each other's thrive.
Yes, yes, Like the importance of being feeling seen in a moment where it feels like certain communities, certain people are being erased, is very important, especially you know, for us going into this moment, Like, there are real people on the receiving end of policy, and we need to tell the stories of people who are on the receiving
end of policy. What does this mean for you? You know, executive order that may seem like some abstract thing that's far away that doesn't like, No, like, this is affecting people, and it is also like and there are people who care about them, right, so who need to read these stories? Who need to hear from from these people who are all, you know, a part of our democracy, you know, whether everybody realizes it or not, like we are, we are all part of this country.
And and.
You know, regardless of how you voted, you may not care about politics, but politics cares about you and and and we're seeing that even in just the first hours of the of this new administration.
Yeah, that's so sure on news sites today, y'all. I'm sorry to say the.
Nineteenth is here for you whenever you whenever I was going.
To say, like that's why I feel the Nineteenth is good.
And some of them from y'all and many fewer from the AP I.
Don't want to pay attention to I just I can't. I think that. Also, I like getting my reportings from black women, so I feel like it's somebody who understands what I'm going through. And I'm just like everybody else gon have to read it too, because well.
Here's the thing, you know, like news fatigue is real, y'all, Like, yeah, I get it. I mean I was not nearly as locked in as I normally am. You know, the way my director positive set up after you know, like during the holidays, like I was like, you know what it's if I don't read every single thing, or if I'm not you know, watching MSNBC all day long, like it's oh, it is really okay, okay, Like it's all going to
be there when I get back, to be honest. And so but like, I know, you know, so many of the people in my life who do not do this work, who are not in politics, who are not in journalism, like, yeah, this is not their life does not revolve around this, right, And so just kind of getting back to that, remembering
that like grass that that yes, like that's that's super important. So, no, you do not, none of us have to consume all the news, but like it is important to me that when people do decide to you know, of all the things that they could be doing, you know that they're going to read a nineteen story Like what is it
that we are giving them? Yeah, and I mean we want to obviously cover what's happening, but but also like what is happening includes joyful things, It includes you know, writing about the doers in our democracy and what that looks like. So yeah, I mean I think there's a way to not just talk about politics, but to just talk about you know, gender and society. That feels very urgent to us right now too.
Mm hm.
And that's what you're doing, Mandy, Like, I mean, like, you know, we're going to talk about all the things.
Well, you know, I had an opportunity with BA after you know, Tiffany announced she was leaving the show and I had and I love her. She was trying to interrupt our call. I had to turn my phone off. I'm like Tiffany, but she breaks through my favorites. She can get through the D and D setting.
Oh she's a breakthrough. Okay, but no, I had to ask family. Oh, yes, and they can break through, that's family.
And she yeah. So she really presented me with the biggest gift, you know, to give me a new beginning that I don't think many of us get after college graduation or school graduation. It really felt like, Okay, this is your you know, this is the moment when you get to decide what's the next four years of your
life going to be like graduatings. And I haven't felt that excited about anything really, I mean maybe since since the last time I was kicked in my booty, uh you know, and left corporate and then started the Mandy money Makers and all of that. But with Brown Ambition, I was like, I have an opportunity to make this show matter. I mean, it always has mattered, but to
just enhance it so much more. And one of the things that I was thinking about with Brown Ambition is, you know, I really want to lean into the title itself Brown Ambition. It was always meant to be, like you said, like, we're not a monolith. I want to have all different types of voices. I love it when I have people on here on the Brown Table who don't agree with me on something, and I'm like, yes, like let's let's get into it. Let's debate a little bit.
It's tussle.
Yes, not the Philly tussle, Dsha tussle, now know I understand, I don't, but yeah, it's like intellectual tussle. Yeah, it's And I just think that's what be a family, that's what they need more than ever, is just a place where they can hear us just like you know, validating that experience and supporting one another.
Yeah. I think there's something too to be said about when I feel like when black women especially get together and we can disagree about things, but one of those things is not our humanity or our self respect and a lot and most times when you're talking to other people, you ain't you can't even get to the subject because you still back at like, do I matter, Like you know what I mean? So you're still back at square one, which is do you see me as humans? Do you
respect me? Do you recognize my dignity? So I feel like with us, it's just like we don't got to go to that part. But we may not agree on some stuff, but one thing that we do agree on is that you know, we deserve dignity and self respect and that we are the top of the mountain over here. Like so even if we don't, you know, we at the top of the mountain disagreement, but we at this
mountain together. And I think that that's the difference of when I talk to black women and frankly black men and black queer folks, is that we do have we definitely there. We don't agree on all things, but we do agree on our self dignity and self respect. So we don't have to start from grant, we don't have to start from zero because you know other people are just like, well, let me first find out if who even like black people before we start this conversation. It's
like saying, who got time for that? Like by the time we've done that, like that's what a civility conversation, I'd be like, y'all got that because I just like you know what I mean, Like I just like we talking about it, mid do I deserve human rights? Like
what are we talking about? Like democracy? Like like I'm just like, so that's why I don't mind talking to black women or whatever, because I'm like like, at least we're starting from zero, child, like you know, like you know, it's it's different, you know it's different.
Well, speaking of touching grass, I want to know what what's given y'all joy these days? Like how are you investing in yourselves? How are you taking care yourselves? Tell me? And if.
I've been on Aaron's Instagram, I'm stalking like a mud where I don't know where it was where you were, Oh, I'll definitely call you out because shot it that played some fabulous I screen shot it and I was like vision board when West was like are we covering pe girl?
Journalists retreat where you guys go and take like matching, No photos and you all amazing.
No, but I'm looking looking forward to our annual trip this year. Shout out to Mama Shaddy crew. But so this it's it's funny that you bring that up, Dha, because I actually so last year during the holidays, No. Twenty twenty three, during the holidays, I had found this deal and booked this trip to Anguilla, and I was so excited because I was like, oh, we've never been to Anguilla before. You know, it got closer and closer.
In surprise, Kamala Harris's a nominee for president, so I know there was no Labor Day weekend getaway, okay, like that was not an option. So like, but I'm postponing this trip and I'm pushing it back and I'm pushing it back and I'm pushing it back. I'm like, oh, we don't have time. We don't have time, but also like we're burned out, so like we need a vacation. And you know, the last time I tried to push it back, the hotel was literally like, ma'am, if you
don't come down here, you are losing your deposit. And I was just like no, no, like let me, let's we got to figure this out, and so we finally ended up going. I guess it was yeah, like right after Thanksgiving, and I could not have been more grateful that I really yet, like we just decided that we were gonna do this, even though like, yes it was
you know, getting your together, did I know? I was like, I ain't got time to go shopping before, I don't have time for any that, but like, we're going to make this happen. I'm so glad that we made the decision to make it happen because we needed it. And it was beautiful and there were all these black folks working at this resort that just were so excited to see us coming and took such an excellence care of us. Like I mean, I felt, yeah, like it really was
like a home away from home. And even though it was just like it was like four or five days, but like that was enough. That was enough time to recharge and just to not be on a screen, to not be thinking about anything else except the pool and my next rum punch. I just had a friend, my friend for her birthday, her birthday president from her husband slash small children. Was you know that she got to be by herself on a hotel. Yes, and it's like I was like, yes, I don't know what.
I was like, oh, I'm going to send this to my husband, just as.
I was going to.
You're doing whatever you want to do. I love that riot so like beautiful, that's you. If nothing else, you're getting one of those vacations this year. Many we're manifesting. We're manifesting that.
For you, manifested by disappearing and just do it myself. See you, you can't wait for other people to create the space for you as you like. I am the planner. I am the one who gets.
I think what I think. You know, my husband's a planner, but I think the issue is that you know, he's a group and he's a I won't say he gets. He liked the discount deals and I'm sling about the discount deals that be like, you know, just because it's just like we're in a Ruba. I know that the hotel may have roaches, but you know what we and I've been like sir, sir, so let me just handle it, because that's why I do like it's not RelA.
Why would he do that to you? His former social secretary you.
The Obama's vacation to be.
At a certain level, you have to say, I kind to do it with a budget.
So but he's very sweet. But I think that for me, like I'm getting in touch with all the things that I think I missed. Like I feel like when you come around, like I just turned forty seven, and I feel like when you come around, like you start to see the other side of like your life and be like, oh I miss that, like I miss it. Like West brought me a sewing machine for my birthdays, I like
want to start it's just sew all the time. And then Mike got you got time for sewing, like you know, but he bought me a sewing machine, and I'm so excited to take my classes. And it's like stuff like that that I'm like going back to those things that gave me so much like care, free, joy, definitely vacation.
So for real, let's talk about let's talk about you antiquing though, Let's talk about that. I love my anti that's what that's your self care. Recently, I love.
And I love the I have. I know, well, I had a birthday dinner here where I had vintage Black women at like black albums as the as the placement. So I went to go find like a bunch of old school and that got me into crate digging again, crate digging and getting. I mean, I just collect stuff whenever we actually buy a house, which maybe that's another comment.
Are you keeping it?
Girl? Listen, you know I'm looking all around and you can't see. But so I think that I love that kind of stuff, except when you find like you know, the Mammy pepper shakers and all that shit, But like, I just love that kind of stuff. I just it takes me back to just like a time of just like I don't know, I like drifting. I like doing that, but I'm not trying to monetize it, like I'm not going to be doing it before and after photos.
I'm like, no, this is just sit that again, because some things don't need to be done.
Yeah, and it's okay, I don't do it.
I'm not curating all these hobbies.
Yeah, I got trouble curating the videos I got, you know what I mean, But I don't got time. So so I love that and I just love like when my back was working, like I'll just walk by myself for hours and listen to music and then I'll get tired and be like, let's come pick me up. I will do that for hours and just have people over, like I'm into the I'm into the high house parties.
Everybody come over, we order some takeout, like I don't need to be getting dressed up all the time, Like BALI laughs on the occasion where I can laugh so hard that I can't.
Breathe, those are so medicinal. Like yesterday, I flung myself down this slippery like snowy slope with my five year old and I'm so glad. It was the worst video I ever took in my life, but I could get
the audio. I could hear us both just cackling like crazy fools, and I'm like, this is and you're breathing and just like breathing in the cold air and like losing your breath and just like doorphins and then the joy And if you're going to anyone's house, I feel like in the near future, bring a game with you. Bring a fun game. You guys have a favorite game you play with groups, we should share.
You know what. I'm actually not really a game person, but I recent believe was at a front. I mean, I don't have the attention span. If I'm being honest, I'm not.
Talking dungeons and dragons, you know.
No, But I mean even like Monopoly, how many times we're going around the board.
How many how many bloss how many other guy buy you game?
Over passed? Go again? No, but I was at a friend's house recently for for a little house house gathering and Jinga was broken out.
And that's what I'm saying.
That is very stressful. However, it is fun, but.
It is very stressful. Fund illustrations what is it? Were like a something and then you give it to the next person they have to guess what it is and the next person. It's really fun. And we just bought illustrations after dark, so the slicey version. So we're game. We are we are. It's just be me and West and some drinks and whatever else we got. We were. We were just it's only us. So it is put the phone away before I get to texting people when
I don't need to be texting people. So like, you know, but we just we have a whole like thing like scrabble and the stuff was playing it like you know.
Yeah, but as a wordsmith, Aaron, I think andishit too. I mean, obviously you've written a whole book, but you have to get this game poetry for Neanderthals. It is so much. I saw the cast of Bridgerton playing it in an Instagram photo and all I saw was one of them had a bat, like a blow up inflatable club, and I was like, I have to find out a game they're playing. And I just played it with some friends.
So you get a card has a word on it, but you can only use monos monos syllabic words with one syllable thank you, where you get hit with a bat and it is the most fun. There's a Not Safer Work edition and it's filthy. And my one and a half year old was in Daddy was in my husband's lap the whole time, and he's just like, dude, do you guys are having fun? He was riveted. He didn't know what we were saying. Obviously the five year olds were playing.
He maybe was enjoying the bat abuse.
He was they love the bats. They should send additional bats if you have kids, just to distract them. But when you get back to the head with an inflatable club and you're like drinking a really nice glass of wine and it's so ridiculous.
It was so ridiculous. It's at those moments of just like it almost is like a moment of like the care free black girl curiosity, which is why, like in the whole book movie, I'm like, where are the black girls that write anime in comics? Like I need to hang out with y'all too, because y'all just be y'all be having fun over here drawn these little animations and stuff like, I mean, I don't need to be nonfiction all the time. Like I'm good like where the anime?
I feel like in the Pandemic, we definitely got back to the idea of rest and like reclaiming rest. But I think now like yes, reclaiming play play. It's also like so important because yeah, I mean like it gets you out of your comfort zone and especially you know, don't be like, you know, some professional, buttoned up person who you know forgot to have fun, Like no, what a trampoline park?
Or yeah I'm going and they're like, what's the claws on the back? Back to work?
You do not go to the trampoline park my.
Back, just like you should have saw me in here, like what did you do?
What did you enter it.
I think I moved the table, like when we had the had my birthday dinner. I think I moved the table, and you know, and my husband knows me, so he's like knees and I.
Was like, your butt, your.
No, you're supposed to like bend you supposed to it's supposed to bend. Then anyway, whatever I did, it was I'm right then one right, so I think I just jack it all up. But then the worst like and then like everything started to pile on, like you know, time of the month came at the same time, you know what I mean, just be like love but thankfully, like this whole weekend, I just I literally just sat and there, got up, did some things, so it was cool, but it was just like, but I get maxed. It's
like that's your body telling you to rest. I'm like, no, I'm old, like you sat, somebody tell me.
I mean, I'm in pain. Sometimes it is wrong. I'd be if I cough wrong. My lower back is a wrap, Like why what is that?
I don't like forgot. I just mentally willed myself to forget about my right ankle because the way I was climbing that slope yesterday and my my snow boots it was twisting all which ways. What we're wrong?
Listen, black crack, what these joints do?
You ain't never? I mean all the time, all the It's like God is good all the time, all the time, all the time.
So yeah, but I'm on the movies or you guys like movie buffs or you like to read to bring Joy TV.
So this is you asking me about my to B addiction? Is that what you're doing?
Do you have a what do you watch?
On? To bone?
Got real serious? To be.
To B is my guilty pleasure. Okay, I cover things that can sometimes be very heavy and I need to check all the way out. And so when I'm doing that, what am I watching? Ten toes down or plug love? My side piece won the lottery. There's so many, so many good ones. I can say enough that there was twos y'all, I'm telling the two b birds.
That's a true show. It's a true show.
The imagination of our people is really especially shout out to Detroit because you all are prolific with the storytelling on to be Like, it's a lot, it's a lot.
It's free, right, it's free.
It is free and they are just there. The library is vast, sugar Mama.
Also not what I got a reality show.
No, it's a movie. It was a movie that had a very interesting plot twist. So yeah, definitely watching lots and lots of two b M.
I would say, I run the gamut, like I love like sever In back and waiting for Handmaids, you know, and I love uh Lotus. Yes, in the spring, White Lotus is coming back.
And you can't be watching White hand Man's Yeah.
It's my girlfriends and I get together and watch it. And my mother in law was like, what kind of girlfriend's party is that? But then also I'm just like Aaron, like I will I love my I love my ninety day fiance franchise. I love the show called Love After lock Up. It's so yes trifling, it's very exploited. It's very I'm like, we'st be like West is like this, and I'm like, I know, but I need to just find out what happens, Like I just need to find
out they make it, you know what I mean? Like, I so I think about you get investing, you get.
So just speaking speaking of which later daters, did everybody watch here?
It's great.
Oh man, you gotta watch it. It's like joyful, right, It's so joyful.
I highly recommend Later Das. I love it and I'm to go season two.
I am too. I was so into the lady that liked the Georgia Bulldogs. The lady listen. She was like, it's a great date, but do you love the Georgia Bulldog Like she was.
Like, you're you're a banda fan, like this is over this at.
This is oh my gosh. Okay, Later Daters.
Yeah, you have to watch that. That's good that I'm.
A below deck sailing. I'm a below deck every franchise fan. The mess you can't you I haven't watched it. They're so good, you know, because the tricks you need to think you're learning something new, like I'm learning about nautica nautical engineering, like how this yacht is going to like stay afloat, you know. But but she has all like twenty five year olds who are hot and have different accents and from all these random countries, and the guests
are hilarious. A lot of Jamil Hill was on the random Yeah, and she luckily was one of the least interesting episodes because they were normal. But a lot of guests are crazy, and it's like you get to listen to the like doubt now be like the people who work behind the scenes just like talk about the clientele, and but you get to see everything. It's so good. Yeah, so I would start. I was telling you I would.
Start, Honestly, you need to.
But they're stuck on a ship.
Yes, man, you have at work, and they're at work, so the rules get broken up. Drunk. You're not supposed to drink on outings, but you show up drunk and you're in trouble.
With the captain and you're operating about a lot of people get fired.
It's great. It's everything you want. Also, y'all need to go see one of them days if you haven't yet, Oh, I want to.
I want to chant out to them like that movie's doing better than the Fossa like.
Number one, number one in the country. I want to hear nothing about it was a quiet week and all that crap. Note the writing, Kiki Palmer, I sent, I haven't done this in so long. I had to email the AP reporter Aaron Jake something because he mixed up two of the black actresses names who played two He said Janelle from a Elementary was the side piece girlfriend. I'm like, no, that was not her, and then he
anyway whatever. I had to email him because also his review was like the headline said, one of them days will convince you. Keiky Palmer is a star. I was like, who needs.
To convince you?
Yes, h Jake, because the rest of us have known that for two decades now. It's so funny.
I mean, we got we always got literally like legit, like like I'm surprised you you probably say, say not Beyonce, like what where you been? Where you been?
Beyonce's halftime performance proof.
Yeah, like you my god, she's on the come up, okay, wants.
To be breakthrough performance at halftime.
Oh god, we now see her full potential.
Like okay, see, we can't fix it. We can't fix it all.
We can't be there, cannot, cannot could, It's.
Always gonna happen. But that was fun. I mean, just like any moment to spark joy guard. Yeah, dancing music, I hope I wish that for y'all. More trips Aaron and actually go tell Boothang that he needs to make sure that you go.
Yeah, he's a journalism too, so y'all take the trip.
Yes, we need the trips.
Take the trip or because we're right Brown ambition, save for the trip and then make sure you book it cash, get those points, but then pay off the cards.
You know what I mean those points? Yeah, twenty five people.
Yes, I'm about to lose my one K status there, so I'm gonna have a I'm gonna have a little funeral status United Girl United Premiere one ky I'm a Delta because so this is the thing. So I did. I did teach it for the Obamas and it was like one was Australia, one was the South Africa, and you know, I flew business class, which means that put me. So I'm like, I'm loving this as long and they and they are about to they about to take it away.
One more trip from them.
Yes I have.
I had to make sure, like because you know, Mandy, you know the Delta life. Like you get to December and it's like, you know what, let me make sure I've got my status for next year locked.
Yes, it's kind of a sickness, but.
Listen, that's the brand ambition I'm talking about, Like, let me sure I'm trying to I'm trying to go from platinum diamond, like like.
Me, just try diamond. But he works in sales. He's always on a plane, right, I don't. I don't have that lifestyle. But it's okay. We have so much more going for us.
Now.
Y'all have two time guests on Brown Ambition, So you got that going for you?
Do you know who I am? I'm gonna. I'm definitely presenting that the next the next time I'm in a Starbucks too.
Definitely should be worse.
Honestly should you should get this?
Cause the first time I was on, somebody was like, how did you get on that show? And I was like, I know people, I know people.
We never respond to guest inquiries, but your person was so good and obviously it was person. Yes I'm feeling him when.
He is so good. Oh he was. He was a super show.
He was great, he was amazing, amazing, best email writer because I really ignore a lot of those interview requests, but when it's good, it's good.
So he's he said, I want to make your wishless come true and I was like, okay, and he did.
Well there you know. Sad enough, there are not very many shows at our level that are hosted by women of color, So it is I know, and I wish more people knew that. We got to do better job getting that out there, because if you're a black author wanting to sell books like Brown Ambition is one of the best places to come. Aaron, are you working on a book that I make that up?
Yep, Nope, you did not. No, I mean I kind of, but no. Yeah, now there's there's a book in the works, like I can talk about it right now, not yet, but but no, like, yes, there there's a book.
Do you have a publisher?
Yes, You'm gonna have to talk behind the scenes.
All right, fine, uh, I can always edit it out, but okay, all right, Well, I want to thank my guest Aaron Haynes dshad I for joining Brown Ambition, for joining the Brown Table. And it's exactly worked how I wanted it to. I feel so much better after the that was just going on, and I hope you be a fan also feel better and can move forward a little bit of optimism. Keep investing in yourselves, taking care
of yourselves, and go find Aaron and Desha on socials. Aaron, you're at e marvelous on I G are you still on x Twitter whatever it is sure when you shot on threads, you want threads.
I'm on Blue Sky and I'm.
Spell.
Yeah, come hang out with me on spell.
You guys, Dsha where the threads, girlies. We I love following you on threads.
I was off for a while and I got back on.
Yeah, it's a good time. Suck, Dsha. You are aware at Dsha Dyer. I'm d dire to success, Dire. I'll put them in the show again. Go get that book. Undiplomatic. Aaron will see you again when you have a book too. I'd love to have you.
Yes, I'd love to be here.
Thanks, I'm aye for having us