Hey, ba fam, It's Mandy Money, and I'm really excited to share today's episode with you. I know Friday's usually the day when we do our ba qa's, but this coming week of April, it starts today, actually kicks off Black Maternal Health Week in the US. Y'all have probably read the same articles I have read, watched the same disturbing news videos that share experiences of deep trauma with life altering and in some cases, life ending consequences for women of color in this country. You don't need me
to tell you that I'm right here with you. I feel the same pain you do encountering these types of stories. And at Brown Ambition, what are we here to do. We are here to acknowledge and accept the reality of what it's like to live in this brown skin, to have ambition in this brown skin, to have families in this brown skin. But we are also here to share stories about how we are overcoming and how we are
creating safe spaces for one another. And I have the incredible opportunity to sit at the same dinner table with this woman. Her name is Latham Thomas. Not only is she exquisite and ethereal earth, Mama goddess. She has also helped bring into the world so many A Lists celebrity babies. Now, I know all babies are A Listers, right, especially mine and especially any brown ambition babies we have out there. But Latham has been by the side of celebrities like
Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, Ashley Graham. She is at the top of her game and she was at a position where she could create a business out of just helping celebrities have these gorgeous humans and bring them into the world a couple times a year. But of course, because black women are everything, Latham turned around and said, I could be one incredible doula, but what if I train generations to come in the incredible work of being a doula and helping bring these babies home and give them
an incredible birthing experience for their parents. And she launched Mama Glow, which we're going to talk about today on the podcast. She'll tell you how her own birthing experience in New York City and the early two thousands drove her and gave her this call to action. She's also going to answer my dumb questions about what is the difference between a doula and a midwife, and who makes a good candidate for having a doula and a midwife
or having a home birth or a hospital birth. We'll also get a little bit because it is Brown ambition, right, we're here to talk about money, honey. We'll get a little bit into the business strategies that have served Latham well as she has had to pivot and take her business from being fully in person trainings to online of course during the pandemic, and we'll talk about how that actually ended up being really beneficial for her business, that
she was able to pivot in that way. Now, if y'all want to find out more about Mama Glow, if you're thinking about getting trained as a doula through one of their programs, you can head to the show notes Snap. Whether you decide to become a parent or not, or help bring life into the world in this way or not, this is an episode where we can appreciate the beauty of this really sacred moment in a person's life and in a child's life. So thank y'all again for listening.
This is Nandy Money and here's my conversation with Latham Thomas. All Right, v A fam I am genuinely just very thrilled. I know I say that every time, but I have wanted to get to know this woman better ever since I happened to meet her at Afrotech in Houston. I found out we both live in New York, very different versions of New York, but still the same state. We'll say.
I have Laitham Thomas on the show today, y'all, and I don't know if we have enough time for me to read her entire bio, but I'm gonna read a little bit of it because I need to put some respect on your name, okay. Latham is the founder of Mama Glow, advancing reproductive justice and birth equity through education, advocacy, the arts, research scholarship. But it also she trains doulas, y'all, trains doulas across the country, across the world, really in
different continents. And beyond the business that she has created, Latham is also a distinguished women's health expert, black maternal health advocate, entrepreneur, one of Oprah's SuperSoul one hundred, which is I don't know. If I were I would just wear that on my neck every day. I would just have that like hang on like a chain, just like Oprah said my name out loud in her Super Soul one hundred. Now, the global community for Mama Glow is
over three thousand. Mama Glow trained doulas across the USA six continents. And what I love so much is that you're not just you know, I think about doulas and I think about the birthing experience, but she y'all don't
just cover that. You cover the fertility period, the pregnancy, birth, and postpartum offering handholding through bespoke doula services, and you also work through hospitals through insurance companies, So you are not just like for me, it's not just that you care about black maternal health, but you know how to work the system to get the resources to the people that need them the most. And so welcome lay them to the brand and vision podcast.
Much Mandy, It's such a pleasure and honor to be here. I really appreciate you. I also fell in love fast friends you know, we met, and so I'm just grateful. Mama Goo is a global maternal health and education platform, but really the goal is training doulas, nurse care managers and providing doula matching services to families, hospital systems designing
doula benefits. And then really, you know, as we think about it as not your anewer, which many people are who do this work, we want doulos to thrive, and so we also help to ensure that people get paid and paid well for the work that they're doing and ensure that we can make impact. And so like as you said, the three thousand dulas that we've trained, are
you active in the world and been doing work. They work with us because we have also a platform where we can match do thos with families, but then they also work out in the world and have their own businesses, right, and so one of those really become a really powerful platform for expanding opportunity. But then also the Foundation has been a really wonderful opportunity for us to advance research and scholarship as well as DOLA matching services for families
that are in need. And so we actually provide pro bono doula services across the country and in New York City we're the largest provider of pro bono doula services for families in need. And so if you need a doula and you're in the city of New York. You're likely getting a doulah through Momo Glow if you're Medicaid eligible, and so we're really excited to be able to offer that as well. Yeah, I'm so proud of the work
that we do daily. But also I always had a dream of being able to do that, right, Like, I've had people reach out to me, some people reach out to me on social or friends reach out and they're like, hey, I have someone in my family who needs a service. And because typically people would pay for this service, right, you know, and it can be thousands, right depending on how you won. Yeah, typically thousands of dollars. And so to be able to say, like I asked, you know,
can they afford it? Or you know, what's their position they're in, and they'll say yeah, you know, they're not really the position. I'm like, okay, great, have them thought this form and we can provide a doula. And so just being able to do that and have a system in place and have funding to cover it and then sure that the dulos are paid well, is you know, really a dream.
But I have to start with a basic question. Sure, how did you start Mama Glow, Where did it come from? What were you doing before? And then when did it? When did it become what it is today?
Is so I I started Mama Glow after my son was born. I was living in New York City, which I never really left, and I was a new mother, and I had noticed along the pregnancy continuum that it
was really just challenging to navigate the care system here. Thankfully, I connected with midwives, and so my son was born in a birth center on Fourteenth Street, and I had this amazing experience of feeling supported and just really like everything I needed was there, Like the midwives, you know, supported my autonomy, respected me in the in the practice of delivering my son, and I had this like incredible out of body spiritual experience that sort of led to
this vision, but also the sacred mandate and what I've been really referring to as a calling, you know, to do this work. And so my son's twenty one now, So this is like twenty two years ago right that I feel this inside of me surfacing, And so it was really a matter of like, well, how do I
go about it? And I didn't have the business skills or acumen, but I did have like a high business IQ and what I mean by that is a lot of us who you know, have the tenacity and the sort of interest, but also the healthy dose of naivete who will like go for something you know, can start things. And I also have a stubborn quality being a tourist. I don't quit stuff, and so if I start something, I never quit.
I'm like a hippie.
So I was like, I want to have it at home or I want to have it like I knew that. So I couldn't have it at my my son's father's house. His apartment was too small. I didn't want to do it there. So I was like, I want to find a place where you know I can do it.
But I did go to.
I won't say their name, but I did you know before I found the birth center, I was supposed to deliver in a hospital. And then I went to the meetings and I was like, uh uh, I'm not something they right, And I didn't even I didn't even really question it. Once I had the feeling that this doesn't work, I was like, we're moving forward and finding something new that feels right, and this is me as like at like twenty three right, I'm like somethingday right in the milk.
Let's figure it out.
And then so I found this birth center because we were walking back and forth and because I knew it from night life, I just would pass by it all the time.
And we were like, let's go in.
And we went in and we had a great conversation with the staff and they said, come in for like an open house kind of thing.
Find out that they took my insurance. And here's another thing.
I didn't go there at first because I didn't think I belonged, right. I didn't think that me as a person who was basically underinsured because I was fresh out of college. So my insurance ended a year after I finished college. So by the time I was pregnant with my son, like, I didn't have insurance coverage, right, and so so then I was able to get on Medicaid and they were like, yes, we take Medicaid. And so my copays were like five dollars. My son costs six
dollars to take home. He was like a bargain baby deal. Okay, my goodness, it was six dollars.
Wow.
Right, So this is the coverage that I got, and it was amazing because again, you know, everyone treated me with autonomy, with respect with love. They didn't say, oh, this is this type of patient, you know, because we understand that good insurance to medicaid there is a gradient in terms of what you expect in terms of service and what you had set in terms of you know,
people's attitude towards you. And if you have private insurance, people expect to be treated well, and if you're on you know, medicaid, people expect to be treated poorly and also have poor access to care and even like you know, their you know, like testing and diagnostics and things like that you get locked out of because of insurance apartheid. And so I was so fortunate right to have this experience at a younger age, and I think, you know, I knew inside it was something inside of me that
knew I wanted to do it this way. And I'm thankful that at the time I had the support of my son's father and I had this sort of internal compass, right that kind of guided me in the direction of doing it. But also I think God had a plan of like, you need to have this experience, you need
to be able to sort of use this. This is the origin story for what you're going to give rise to, right, and so I needed to have this to kind of have a trajectory of working in women's health, laying the foundation, laying the bricks right for what will become. Mama glow down the line. And I think for me, you know, that experience and then the shift from working as an individual because I did have that calling to individually serve as a doula, right, and I learned so much. I'm
asked so much information and in service. But then Mandy, one time there was a there was a moment, right, And I think everybody experiences this too, right at any stage in business and what they're growing something you have an opportunity. I feel like that arises in each of us where we're inside of this configuration and things are going well, but you're being asked to do more or called to do something bigger and so the container that
you're inside of no longer fits. It's like when you have to repot your plants, right.
You know, to expand and to be you know.
Like my son busting out of as eighteen month onesie girl, Like Mama, I'm almost too. It's a time give it up?
Can we talk about it well? Overnight? Like it's gonna throw the close. Okay, overnight they outgrow these clothes. Yeah, exactly.
So you feel that call to expand, and some of us will show up and answer it and be like, Okay, I'm going to step into this thing that feels really scary and uncertain and I don't know because I'm super comfortable here, but like something's pulling me and also even almost in some cases forcing me to move beyond. And so I had that, I had that experience where it was not just enough to serve as a doula. I needed to build something bigger. And that's when Mama Glow
comes into being. Really is at a pivotal point culturally, which is like how a lot of things come right in terms of our uh, you know we think about impact right and impact oriented work. Is that some critical pieces of reporting came out Pro Publica and The New York Times of Black Manternal Health, right, yes, and these right,
These were stories that shifted culture. It was groundbreaking that there was finally this focus on things that we have been talking about in silos for years that were happening to us, and there was finally on central stage or center stage, this discussion happening that permeated the globe, and now everyone was talking about what it is like to give birth in the United States if you are a black birthing person, and that moment of that sort of
you know, earth shattering, and then subsequently more pieces come and more stories absolute heartbreaking, heartbreaking is I mean in nature?
Absolutely right?
And to level set for folks we're talking about you know, and many of you have heard these statistics, but to share that black women in the United States are three to four times more likely than white women to die during childbirth or due to childbirth related causes, right, And we're not talking about numbers. We were talking about individuals and people with potential who pass on and leave behind a legacy that is unfinished, and they have children who
have to then be raised by community. And when because we know that black women are the crux of community, when black women die, it actually just configures our communities. And so because we are oriented differently than other communities, right, and so it's not only just an individual tragedy, it's a collective tragedy that we experience when this happens, right. So, and so what I saw in that moment was to create the program that would train the dulas because it
had to be bigger than me. It couldn't just be me out here in the world. It's not effective enough. And I had the knowledge, and I had the years of experience. It was like it's time. So I developed a program. I remember in twenty eighteen, I was super nervous to you know, put out the flyers to announce it. I waited until last minute because that's apropos of who I am. I mean pretty much, I always do everything
last minute. And so here we go. I launched the flyer like two weeks before the class is supposed to start, and Mandy, Oh my days. It filled in the next one. I did that within nine months. We expanded from New York to La Miami in Paris, and then COVID hits in twenty twenty and it's like, what do we do now, right, because this is an in person experience, So in three weeks we pivot to online. We test internally with the you know, like the group of people that we have.
Basically we grew like eightfold overnight, eightfold.
Heyba fam, We're going to take a quick break, pay some bills, and we'll be right back.
The classes were now like hundreds of people in each class, people were home because of COVID, right, so they're able to be online. And so we had not only the limit the limit the lack of limitation because of online, but also we had people who were literally at home trying to find purpose, and so all those people came in and it was incredible, and so we we actually
really grew the business and COVID. Where many people were winding down or sunsetting businesses, we were like catapulted and COVID and so it was actually a blessing for us.
And so while our in person courses and training and programs you know, had to collapse during that time, the online really shot up and then we found really innovative ways to like support community and really support and and actually pour into the doulas in ways that we couldn't in the beginning, or not even saying that we couldn't, but just it was a different focus because we were in person, so we didn't have to think about like the fact that people were isolated, and now we're thinking
through how to maintain their well being, their mental health, how to create you know, community online and spaces for them for self care while they're still practicing and living through a public health and you know, a global public health crisis, right, and so so that's how it kind of expanded. But it was really, you know, not something that I started from a lens of I'm going to go this crazy business.
It's going to be huge.
It was more just like, you know, this is what I would like to do, and I knew in this moment, and I was like, I'm just going to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And and I would also always write down and like project map what I wanted to create, even if I was under resourced, So even in the times where I could not actually see it through, I would project map as if it was already happening. And I I've done that my whole career.
Like I'll sit here.
It's not like really vision boarding, because I do that too, but it is literally like sort of mapping your your sort of business arc and really diving into a roadmap and having it in the background almost like you know, when you're in a restaurant and there's like that music playing in the background. It's and you're just like not tuned in, but you kind of oh, there's thing, you know, one of your favorite songs, and then you kind of
go back into what you're doing. It's like that like that thing stays in the background, and so I'm always aware.
And so then when something.
Does surface that we achieve that was in that roadmap, right, like i'd stop, I acknowledge, and I also like go back to that.
And I look to see what other things so that I'm also becoming more aware of what I'm continuing to do, but also to like loop into where I was and then versus where I am. And so it's been a great exercise.
I'm a visual learner as well, so like these types of things are helpful.
And then guess what.
We were able to work with CBS ETNA to develop a do a competency training for nurse care managers for CEU credits, and so then I was able to take a train that we already had distill it down to a three hour program for CEU credits for nurses and so then I was like I checked that off, right, And so things like that right where you know, I
didn't know how it would happen. But when you're and I feel like you shouldn't always try to figure out how, because part of the journey is like you need to come up with the vision, right, and the vision has to be expansive, it has to be bigger than you have to also feel unattainable because along the way, along the way, you encounter solutions, you encounter contacts, resources, and sometimes find your way to that thing or something like it,
or even something better. And so for me, I was able to achieve that thing that I set out for, but then even something better where we were able to work within healthcare systems in ways that I had not imagined, right, So, but because that was one of the pathways, it created
an opening for other things. But I think also too, the consistency of action for me has one of the things that I feel like has had to stand out because, like I said before, you know, if you're moving around, you're balancing, like, if you're not focused, then people can't see. People have such a low attention span these days, right, and so you think that they see your work and they don't and so or they're like, oh I think I saw this, or it's just there's too much coming
at people. So if you're not consistent, they don't know what to plug into or to focus on, or they don't even know how to their brain doesn't know what to do right. And then also I think that when you're asking, you know, if you think about or have a belief in a higher power, if you're asking for support and benevolence and guidance and strength on this journey, but you keep switching, it's like hard to because then you're gonna get the thing you ask for, but you're
gonna be gone, you know, onto the next thing. And so you got to also focus so that you can prepare for the blessing right. And so that's what I always try to do too, is like I need to stay right where I am so that when that thing that I ask for and that I've been working towards arise, I actually have the capacity to hold it because I've been building towards expanding you know, the platform and the ability to scale the business. And I live for people
saying to me like how they were impacted. I live for being able to support you know, staff, you know, and them living their dreams and being able to live full lives. I live for things like that. I live for, you know, my son, Like we live for our kids too, right.
But I think it helps to do this for yourself because sometimes people don't acknowledge, and many of us, especially here as we're talking about women of color, we are not acknowledged for our gifts, for our brilliance, for the for the singular, I mean, how singular we are when we step into a space over.
The only one and people will act.
Like we are not here and that we are not doing the damn thing, and it will in some ways, it can cut, and it can feel like a thousand tiny cuts, and sometimes you don't feel like you have the ability to keep going, especially if things get challenging, if no one's acknowledging the good you're doing.
And so sometimes it's.
Like doing these practices of cloaking yourself with love of
remind yourself that you're worthy, and also envisioning yourself being acknowledged. Also, I think feels really good, especially in a world that is always telling black and brown women and girls that we are not enough, and we are and by the way, you know how I know we are because we don't have a choice, because we have to be forced to outperform everybody, which is why you see black women the most educated population in this country, and we're talking about
the United States highly educated, not because we wanted to get all these degrees because we had to to be able to compete. And by the way, when we get into positions, and we were in positions of leadership and power, we could have ran the whole thing. By the time we get into a position where a subordinate is maybe paid more as somebody who's alongside us, maybe paid even comparably or more, but we're doing ten times the amount of work. And so I know that we sit inside
of this face of being unacknowledged. I know we sit inside of spaces where we are not reminded of our brilliance and how amazing we are, and a lot of times we do not feel loved. And I'm here to remind us that. You know, part of it is creating community so we can feel that. And then part of it is like a cloaking of self love, constantly speaking, blessing over yourself, constantly being in a space where we do not do what we have been taught, which is
to self criticize, but to actually self actualize. That is our job here, because nobody can do the work you were put here to do.
I can't.
I can help bring it out of you, but I can't help you do it. Mandy could sit here and podcast all day and remind you about who the fuck you are, But if you don't actually get up and go do it, like, it's this amazing wasted potential right Like it's like if you can't do the thing that you were put here to do, like, then we don't get to see it. And that, to me is the shame. Is there's somebody out there who decides not to keep going, like we don't get to see the brilliance and we
don't get to benefit from it as a community. And so as black women, I always want to remind us that that pouring in is so critical to keep going.
Thank you for that. Just listen to you build us up all day. I mean, I think self love is so crucial. It is a practice though, because there's days where I am like so good to myself and there are days when I'm so mean to her and I'm just like, no, not too much on my friend Mandy, like let's be kind yes, be kind of me, And he said bullying stop stop stop the self bullying. Yeah, absolutely, but it has to come from within, and I ice, yeah,
so that is a constant practice. I want to talk just about Mike, I want to talk about I want to be I want to admit I'm a little bit ignorant of the work of doulas and the work of I mean, I had pretty cookie cutter, vanilla pregnancy and birthing experiences. I know, I'm very lucky. I also recognize my privilege. I'm a light skinned woman of color. But I want to talk about the doula, Like, yes, doula versus midwife, what are we question?
What are we getting?
What all comes with that? And what can you expect and how do you know if you need one yeah or not?
So first of all, I love that you have asked what the difference is, because there is one, and there's many differences, I should say, between douls and midwives. So midwives are clinical care providers who are trained to provide support along the entire women's health continuum.
So you can work with.
A midwife for well woman care and well care throughout your reproductive journey, starting from men's thees through menoplause, right, And these would be typically people who were in our community and Midwiffree is actually one of the oldest known professions, right, So we've always had midwives and this work is actually really ancient, right, and so what they do is low risk burn and that's typically for people who are you know, like healthy and wanting to do birth in one of
three settings. It could be home, it could be a birth center, and in some cases hospitals that do have midwives on staff, right, and those would be certified nurse midwives who will be on staff and hospitals, and so it would depend on your choice and your avenue that you select. So midwives are an option. The midway three model of care centers the family and their needs and so it doesn't center around the needs of those providing
the care, but those receiving the care. And that's a difference in what we see in our normal sort of healthcare model where the doctor is sort of at there's a hierarchy and the doctor's at the top, right, and it's really the physician that's centered versus the patient. So doula is a non clinical care provider, meaning that they provide all of the things outside of the clindict experience. So that is going to be emotional support along the
pregnancy and birth continuum. It'll be education, advocacy tools. If you have a partner present, they're going to support your partner and get them up to speed on how to best support you through the process.
And also it's about you know what my client's call is.
It like having a producer for your birth right, somebody who's thinking about every aspect of this experience and how it will go for you and making sure that you have everything you need to navigate the experience.
Now, a couple things to think about.
You know when we talk about advocating, and we constantly have this conversation about black women advocating for themselves and you got to advocate, you got to advocate, yes, but let me give a caveat There's two things that I like to say about this. One is that you cannot advocate in birth. At the same time, birthing is about surrender, It's about transcendence. It's about opening, softening, being vulnerable.
You have to be in.
A space where you feel safety, you feel dignity, you feel belonging, you feel like you are held, and in that you can actually the hormones that are designed to help facilitate birth can actually flow.
The experience can flow.
If you are fighting for your life, if you are fighting for your safety, if you have to compromise your safety for your dignity. If any of these things are happening where you do not feel comfortable, you cannot birth. So I want to just say that, because this idea of advocating is about defending. It's about self defending. It's about self really, it's about you know, protecting yourself. How can I also protect myself but then also birth right? I can do one or the other. I cannot do both.
And so we need to create atmospheres and settings that do not require advocacy, that do not require me to fight for my safety, fight for my dignity, fight to be seen and heard, fight for medication for pain, fight for like I should not be having to do this, right, And this is what black women have been saying all along when they talk about the experience of medical racism
in hospital settings. Right, that's number one. The other thing I want us to think about when it comes, you know, to this process is you know, in lieu of or editation, in addition to not being able to advocate, you know, while you're actually trying to birth your babies, is that you know, when we're moving through this process, you know, we feel this is a space of deep vulnerability.
Right, this is a space where.
You know people are not able to when you're when you're actually birthing, a couple of things happen.
Right.
Your brain is in an altered state of consciousness. And what typically happens is there's a lot of decisions that you're being asked to make when you're not in the frame of mind to actually make those decisions, right. And so a lot of things happen that are non consensual that people feel coerced in to doing or consenting to and setting in a setting where they should be protected.
And so another thing, what like, well like signing a paper for an epidural, Right, Like, how can I do that when I'm in active labor and I'm in and I'm in pain, and I'm in and out of contractions. How can I sign ten pages of paperwork and read it and really understand what I'm signing off for?
Right? Yeah, And so you can't write, you can't do it in that state. And so I think.
That you need a birthing plan.
That is why you need a plan, but also you need a duelah.
But you also need to read this information know about it before.
Right.
We can't be in the moment trying to figure it all out.
And I think the thing that my hospital did do is they were like, we need a birth plan and a lot of their nurses were midwives, I believe.
Which is amazing.
Yeah, I got this really nice hospital. I'm curious though, like when I I think about doulas or midwives, is that person catching the baby?
So the midwife absolutely could catch the baby. A doula is there as support, so it is not there to deliver the baby, but they are there to like be an extra set of hands, someone who's helping you. Yeah, they're like, are you the leader for your birth?
Is it best to have both? Yes, you need the combo.
You need the combo. It's it's because it's a dream team.
Because it's like the clinicians do clinician things right, So they're birthing the baby, they're monitoring you, making sure that
you're safe, taking care of all the clinical needs. But then the doula can do all the emotional stuff, like you know, like feeding you the water between contractions, you know, giving you massage or or comfort measures while you're experiencing pain, you know, breathing with you, maybe saying okay, let's walk or let's dance or let me you know, use this technique on you, right, yeah, dancing, he's very helpful right in labor. But you know, changing position is you know, like all these they.
Push the peanut ball in between the flip you over.
All of these things, right, the hands on support is what the dula is doing. But another thing, like to think about it like this, I always say to people, like our job is to protect your memory of the experience, right, Like I'm here to think about how you recall your birth. I want to I'm invested in that story, right, I'm invested in what that looks like when you tell people what happened, when you recall it for yourself, when you
tell it to your children. What are you saying, right when you when you have that, when you undergo the experience, what is the story you tell? And part of what we're doing is preserving that, right, preserving the experience, preserving the memory of the experience. And the doula is there really like as that you know, the keeper of the birth village, right, Like there's a bunch of people who are part of the birth right. You might have a
lactation provider, massage therapist, ttritionist. You have your OB or your midwife, and you would have an OB or a midwife, right, Like typically people would have one or the other, and then they would have a doula, right, And so the OB's and adula's work together if that's what you select to work with an obgin or if you decide to work with a midwife, and the midwife and the doula work together, which is great. You know, and people you know,
if they're going to do a hospital birth. Not everybody's a candidate for hospital birth. Some people are better for home birth or out of hospital birth and a birth center.
Some people are better suited for that experience. And then some people are most comfortable but also best suited in hospitals, depending on like what some of their needs are, right and regardless of what you have going on, even if you have a complicated birth plan, like some people know that they have a C section plan because of a health concern, a doula is tremendously helpful in that experience as well as a postpartumer recovery experience.
I think the postpartum experience is one that is so I mean, maybe it's just me, but I feel like there's a lot of focus before and during the labor, but then after it's very much like maybe you'll get someone to come squeeze your boob for you and teach you how to do the seahold. And now there are more resources. I remember I went to lactation elactation support group at my hospital after I had to seek that
kind of stuff out though. And just having a non mother, like a non relative of yours, but just someone who's there for your best interests and who really knows what to expect. I wish. I love the idea of having that sort of resource postpartum. So when yeah, and is that something that a doula can provide? Like you know, there's the feeding and like the are they sleeping enough?
Am I?
You know, like how can I navigate this? Is this normal? Is that normal?
Yeah?
Yeah, So there's a couple things so postpartum doulas this is the role right to come in and make sure that you feel confidence in your transition into new parenthood. A couple things to think about with right is that you have things like baby nurses. Right, they come in, they're thinking about sleep, they're changing diapers or feeding babies or doing a lot of like hands on support, but
they are not really there for you. And when you just gave birth, right, like, the people who are there for you really is that postpartum doula who's helping you with recovery, helping you to get those underwear on if you have like the pad sickles and you're putting on
the postpartum underwear, and it's a whole thing. Helping with things like that, Helping with meals right, maybe organizing a meal train, making sure you're having adequate nutrition postpartum, you know, helping you with things like organization like how am I going to organize the nursery or my space? Or where the diapers go versus where the breastmelt goes versus where the bottles go, like all these things helping you to
put things in order and organize your life for success. Right, So they're thinking about systems as well and also there for you to help you build confidence as new parents. So a do look can also help you as you're changing diapers, help you with you know, skills or with swaddling, teaching you things but also not doing it for you so much as like helping you do it and then thinking about like okay, when the baby goes down, like it's time for you, right, So they'll observe feedings, they'll
you know, make sure you're eating, resting. But then also, you know, we'll spend some time helping you process your labor experience, do things like you know, like recap that
experience with you. Maybe also even you know, help you to if you've had some experience where maybe there was challenge come on the other side of that, to be able to you know, process that experience that you're not carrying the pain of what that might have been like or trauma for some people into the next experience right or into your parenting right, and just you to close out and experience of birthing as well.
Right, Hey, ba fam, we're gonna take a quick b pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Welcome back, be a fan. Let's get back to the show. That's such an interesting point, especially if you've had a not
great experience. Sometimes you're in the moment and you don't really know how to process it, and then afterward you start replaying things and then it can start to really like oh that's and so with a doula, I mean, do you just you just show up at a certain hour like okay, postpartum, I'm going to have you here from two to five pm every day, or.
You design it.
However, for folks who find the right dula, right, there's a vibe, there's an energy. So when you're meeting in your interview and you're like, oh, like we get along really well, and you think, oh, we have some cultural you know, things that main line up or this is happening in my life, and you're like, oh cool. So it's like there's sometimes these these areas of interest or overlap in terms of like culture or lifestyle or background and things like that that can also help ridge those gaps.
But most of the time, when people are looking for this, they're kind of ready right to like open up and or need a container to open up into. And oftentimes, more often than not, people are isolated in this experience.
A lot of people come to it and they don't have friends who've had kids, or they may be the only friend that they'ell pregnant at the time, or they may be a new city or whatever's happening in their life, or like you lived through COVID, right, like a lot of people having babies in isolation with no family members around, Like that's struggle, that's hard trauma, right, Like it's.
Hard for me to go back to that time.
I could understand why, because there's a lot there, right, And so the doula's role is to help mitigate that and to help you feel more safe.
And calm, but also held.
In your vulnerability. Like I like to think about how we swaddle newborns, like swaddling a new family, swallowing a new mother as they navigate this experience, right, and then Dula does that really well?
Yeah, I mean for you as the doula, it must be hard to make that connection and then move on down the road. Pack up your little doula suitcase.
I don't know.
Do you stay in.
Touch with your There's a lot of women in touch with still and folks.
Did I read that you were Alicia Keys's doula? I was is that like a known? I was like that, I thought that was public?
It is, like, I love her really great.
We actually get to do a partnership later from Mother's Day, which I'm so excited about.
She does strike me as she is so ethereal and earth, just like of course she would have a doula.
Yeah, she was so into it. It was great. I love her. Yeah, so she's great.
So do you still do it? I mean, like, is it hard for you as a business now your business is growing, now you're training a.
Doulas it's anymore.
Unfortunately, because of my schedule, you know, because university my course was embedded at Brown University, where I teached right, medical students, medical collegy students, bioethics, public health, they'll be guying pre med.
I mean, I think as entrepreneurs, So thepreneurs, you're hoping to get to that level where you're not having to do the you know, the day to day and that you can focus on the bigger picture growth strategy and just increasing the reach.
Yes, creating more opportunities and all that.
Yeah, which which is better a better use of my time as an individual, right to make more opportunity for three thousand people who are in our network versus something just for me, right, And so so that's how I kind of see, you know, but I have had the privilege of doing you know, I think the last you know, I would say, the last couple of births, it was really like one a year, you know, because I was doing like three to four month, you know, back in
the day. But yeah, so then I got to like, you know, I would say like last year, the in the year before was like once you know that I was able to do them for people who I really love, like I've done you know, like Alicia like you said, and Ashley Graham and Hath the way, DJ Khaled, you know a lot of you know people, And I guess.
All these people have home births. I think actually Graham had a home birth right for her twins. She had a home birth yea, and she posted something about that, sorry, she had.
Two home births.
It looks so beautiful.
Yeah, I'm like, damn.
I mean I had a great, beautiful experience that I will cherish it. But it also looks I mean, just the pictures. I love looking at pictures of births now and some people get weirded out by it. But it is the most beautiful.
Thing is because you know, it's just I.
Could just get like I'm like buzzing just thinking about it. Magic.
It's awesome also because it happens once, right, Like you only have one birthday, you know, and then after that it's just anniversaries every year it's one birthday. And so when you capture that, you're capturing the one time that someone arrived for the very first and only time to this planet. Right through this portal of the body from heaven or ever that came through darkness into light. They
are born. And it only happens once and each time, and you've been able to do it twice, right, each time, it's the first time again, right, Like it's the only time with that baby each time, right, And so you get to do it over and over, which is beautiful if you do it more than once, and you've had the opportunity to be reborn again into motherhood. But like people have to understand what we want to protect is the sancty this experience, because it is holy, it is otherworldly.
It is to be protected. They come on the other side of that, it's like they can use the power that emerges from that experience of birthing to ask for increase in their pay at work, to ask for a raise. They can use that energy to ask and demand from what they want. In other spaces, they use that to
claim up take up more space in the world. Literally, your body expands and takes up more space, right like the ones who get to live into that power in that moment bring that with them, and so that is another reason why it has to be protected.
It's not just about huge opportunity, well.
Process, it is a huge opportunity for us to actually become more self actualized.
Right.
If you come to Momaglo doula training, you'll learn all of this, which is what doulas are learning, nurses are learning, healthcare providers are learning because it needs to be known, and we are the market leader. So if you want to learn how to do this, if you want to have this experience for yourself, you can hire one of our duels, which you certainly come to the training, and we have lots of people who come wh they're pregnant because they want to be able to carry this with
them into these spaces so that they feel informed. Right, And so that's another thing to think about too. Take doula training just to even prepare you for birth itself.
Right, that's really smart. Yeah, yeah, Well.
We'll make sure that all the links are in the show notes. Late than I could talk to you forever, Lathan Thomas, thank you so much, y'all. You chok the show notes for Mama glow, how to go to all of the trainings if you want to get doula certified trained what's the word? Okay, certified and find out more about our beautiful I want to call you the Globe, Maven, because that's fine. You are on Instagram find her at the Globe. Even what else did I forget?
I'm just so label.
I'll have you back. We'll have you back.
Yeah, I try to come back. But I love you. I'm so proud of you.
I just have to say this, y'all, that people like Mandy and what you are doing here, and even when I met you, I was like, Okay, first of all, like fast friends, love her energy all the way, like just immanating energy, like dripping in love and support of other women. But the other thing that I really love is that you're, like, you know, talking about how you want to continue to build what you all have done
so beautifully here to impact more of us. And I love that you were like not it was not enough. Like as she was speaking to me when we met at Afrotech, one of the things I took away was that there was this level of satisfaction, like look what we've done, but also I know we can do more. And it was like that that I found really inspiring, that you want to continue to impact people, you want to continue to touch people, and that you're driven to
do so. And so I just think that's amazing because sometimes we get to a place where we're like this is cool, and then we shift our focus. And what I found in meeting you was that you were like, no, this is time to go deeper and then find other ways to do more and explore other tentacles. And I found that to be really refreshing. But also just know, y'all, she reaches everybody. This is an amazing pod. I'm so honored to be on here. I was so excited to
be invited. First of all, I feel honored because I'm listening like this is one of my shower listens, by the way, So I'm thankful to be on here, and I just appreciate you so much for the opportunity and thank you again.
Listen. The way that we guess each other up as black women should be studied by science, because literally my face hurts from just like the smile I've had to have plastered on this.
Old time regular offer.
And I'm just thankful for you I'm so thankful to know you too, Latham, and whatever forces came together to put us at that dinner table together. Just thank you all right, back at you love all right, Thank you so much for joining me. La than ba Fam. Check the show notes for all links and how you can stay tuned and learn more about Mama Glue. Okay, be a fam. Thank you, Thank you so much for listening
to this week's show. I want to shout out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for helping me put the show together. It is not a one person project, as much as I have tried to make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all, and thank goodness I've been able to put this team around me to support me on this journey and to y'all bea fam.
I love you so so so so much. Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes, our tenth year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time, talk to you, soon via buye