Three two one, It's time for the b a qa A the v a qa wou suy the b a qa with Manda, the ba qa and Tiffin A the bka qa A. Oh thank you, Brandi's for helping me with that. I kind of feel like you're one of those. Now you're just like a recurring guest on Brown Ambition and our audience, BA fam we have I feel like a third sister co host. Well, Branda's Daniel is back in the stew with us because the gems that she
is able to drop y'all are just unlimited. And now that we are brand new best friends, I have invited her again to the BA couch to take some of y'all's questions. Yes, if you have not yet listened to the OG episode with Branda Daniels, what are you waiting for? Please go? She is the founder of Harlem Fashion Row. She has an credible book, a beautiful work of art and a labor of love, Love Love, a labor of love called Fashion in Color Volume one, and there will
be more. So go get yours now that you can pick up. Also check out Brandess Daniels on IG Brandess Daniel. Sorry, adding an s to your name as you do if you're black, it's Kroger's not Kroger. We know Brandon's Daniel on Ig. Check out her podcast Fashion in Color and
all the incredible work that she does. But when we set aside all that normal stuff that you do when you're interviewing someone fantastic on the show, which is typically like talk about how brilliant they are and all the brilliant things they've achieved, we kind of cut through all that bs when it comes to brown ambition because we want to get to the sauce. We want to understand the recipe. How did you get to where you are?
And one of the gems that you dropped or little nuggets you dropped in our first episode, Brandess, was that you had sort of been thinking when you started hf R that it may be a nonprofit, and I want to hear a little bit of background on how you decided, Okay, this is not a nonprofit, it's a business. And then we're going to take a question from VIAQA because it's very in line with I think the same crossroads that you were at with HFR.
Yeah, Mandy, I feel like when we say we want to do something to help other people, we assume that it has to be a nonprofit.
And so my original thought.
Was, I want to make sure that we're supporting black designers, that we're putting them out there, so it needs to be a nonprofit. And I was working with a business coach at the time, and he kept challenging me on this. He kept saying, why do you want a nonprofit?
Why why could this business not be a business with a purpose? Why can't you just do good and still make a profit.
Because brand is when you build a successful business. What that does is it helps our community. You're able to hire people like that is also given back in a different type of way. And so I, after years of fighting it, finally decided, Okay, this is going to be a business. And honestly, it was one of the best decisions I could have made. I eventually did start a nonprofit, but I'm so happy that I said h and far
up as a business first. And why is that, you know, because I think that a I wouldn't have had as much space to really explore my ideas. When you have a nonprofit, there is a board that everything needs to be approved through. I was able to try a lot of things out and quit a lot of things through.
Harlem's fashion role.
I also personally needed the skill of really building a business, So we built H ANDFR from basically like five hundred dollars to a few million dollars business. And the skill set that you get from that process of actually building a profitable business can then benefit you if you want to later go and start a nonprofit. I just feel like I would have looked at a nonprofit very differently.
For example, when we launched our nonprofit, our first donation was a million dollar donation from Vogue in the CFDA.
Because of the relationships you built with your business.
With the business, but also I was I understood what it what it looked like right, how.
To manage a million dollars through the business.
And because brands saw the level of work that we were doing, they trusted us to give us.
That level of donation, and so sometimes.
It allowed me to think a lot bigger about you know. Our next donation was five hundred thousand from Gap Inc. And then they donated another five hundred thousand. So I feel like building the business home to prepare my mindset for what it would take to actually run a nonprofit.
Oof okay, I'm so so glad that one of our BA fans submitted this question. I feel like we've been we never want to answer questions that we don't feel like we can't give like a big, juicy, you know, good, substantial answer to. And the reality is that Tiff and I don't have nonprofits. So when I got this question from Patricia, Hi, Patricia Gosh, I hope that it's not too late. You did send this question this year, so
why don't that you're listening. If not, I'm gonna find your email and I will make sure you know which episode we answered it on. But Patricia has a business question, and I think you're the perfect perfect guest to answer it. So let me jump on into Patricia's question. Okay, Patricia says, I've been listening to Brent Ambition, and y'all have started to discuss, or you have been discussing the pros and
cons of starting a nonprofit. I just started a non organization in January, but after listening to your podcast, I'm wondering if I should have started a for profit instead. I am still in the process of setting up the business. I've established a line of credit and a credit card in the business's name. My question is can I change from a nonprofit to a for profit organization? Should I?
What are the pros and cons? Thank you Patricia. Okay, so, having some regrets about going the nonprofit route versus the for profit route, but we don't know too much about what kind of business she has or anything like that, So feel free to, you know, to riff on that.
I feel like she knows the answer.
I think that she knows the answer that it should be a business whatever it is that she's doing. And you know, one of the things that when you set your nonprofit up, you have to set it up as a business first and then you get your five oh one C three.
So I don't think that it's going to be that.
Big of a challenge for you to go from a and I could be wrong on this, but I don't think it's going to be that much of a challenge for you to for you to go from a nonprofit to a to a for profit business, especially if you've only been doing this for a year. I would highly recommend, though, to speak to a nonprofit specialist, maybe also speak to a tax accountant to find out like if there is anything there but your business is already set up, because you have to do that in order to build out
the nonprofit. I think my question would be too, why a nonprofit and not a business? Is it that you know most of the people who you're going to be getting revenue from that they want to have give you tax deductible dollars because that could be it Sometimes like she's wanting to work more with kind of like the nonprofit arms of companies, and so she wants them to be able to give her that that tax.
They want to be able to get that tax right off.
Maybe that's why she's thinking about a nonprofit.
She wants that five hundred k from gapping.
But you know what, like really it's it's it's it's managing.
That, but you know, we give most of it away. I also think what does she want personally? That's really important. What type of autonomy does she want? Because with nonprofit dollars, you really have to be really transparent on every dollar that you spend that comes from a brand. And sometimes you might want to spend money on things that you test out. You might want to do some beta testing, and.
A company like just a company, gives you a lot more flexibility.
Then you get to be like a It's almost like you get that space as a startup founder to be you know that old adage of like we built this in a garage, just like you know, you think of the old vision of an entrepreneur and you know, bringing
that to the modern age. You really can be you alone with your ideas, trying some things, maybe not spending money like what the you know, investing in certain things and investing in certain ideas early without the feedback of It's great to have advisors, right and to have thought partners, but sometimes you have to learn to like trust your own voice, you know, before you're ready to get that advice from other people.
Yeah, And one of the things that my coach said to me, he said, brand is if you build a successful business, the nonprofit will be so much easier to run.
And he was so right about that.
So the gap relationship came from the business relationship. The Vogue and CFDA donation came from the business relationship. So I was able to take everything that I had done in business and use that credibility for the nonprofit.
So talk to me about when you knew, Okay, I've reached a certain level with Harlem Fashion, Row and do we mention the book Fashion in Color. You can get that right now wherever books are sold.
Which got away, part of the proceeds from the Fashion and Color book goes through a nonprofit Icon three sixty.
I read that and HBCUs get part of the profits as well. Is that right? Incredible? Everything is in alignment? Okay, you just feel good with It's some of those things you buy that you're like, I feel good about, like, actually, this book will do good for me and for others. It's amazing. Absolutely Okay. So when did you realize, okay, Harlem Fashion Row is doing well enough and at this point where it feels okay to start a nonprofit arm And then how did that execution happen?
I started it in the middle of the pandemic, and I started it because designers were calling me and saying that they didn't think they would be able to stay in business.
And from the HFR side, we didn't.
Have the ability to write designers checks our business models and set up that way, and so because I wanted the ability to write checks, because that's mainly what Icon three sixty does is we give money to designers and to HBCU fashion departments.
That is why we started the nonprofit.
It was because we really wanted to be able to give money, give grants and give awards to designers and HBCU fashion departments.
And so.
That process for me was working with a nonprofit specialist who helped me to fill out all the paperwork to get my father that.
Yeah, so where does one find a nonprofit specialist.
If someone needs a nonprofit?
The one that I worked with who was fantastic, her name is I can't think for her last name is Daphne, but I'm happy to share the person who I work with, DM me. I'll send you her information and.
We work with her.
She helped get all our paperwork together. We had to, you know, first we had to start the business because ICON three, when you're doing nonprofit, it has.
To be a business first.
So we had to start it as a business ICON three sixty and then you get the five oh one C three sits on the business God. So we got all of that done, and then we had to come up with our bylaws.
I had to come up with the board.
We had to come up with a mission statement, and you know kind of like what was.
Our fiscal responsibility going to be?
And how we were going to manage donation so that we can communicate.
That to our donors. And then once we did that, we were we were rolling.
Yeah, so then it's managed underneath the umbrella of HFR. So the staff you have.
There totally separate.
Oh, totally separate. Okay, So then you had are you who's the director of that program? Like? Did you have to find someone to manage those funds and make sure that, like you said, all of the fiscal responsibility, like the accountability, the accounting is ordered properly to the board and to donors. Did you hire a separate team for that?
I had to hire a separate team. So we have a separate legal team for that. We have a separate accounting team for Icon three sixty. Matter of fact, they email me this morning because we're about to get do our self audit, and yeah, I have to have a totally separate team for Icon three sixty runs totally separate from h FAR.
Oh interesting, Okay, I guess I always just thought, you know, just in my own ignorance that Okay, well, it's just you know, you have the big company and then the little over there. They're the people who do good over there. They sit over there and they manage those bad money. They that's fascinating a lot.
It's a lot of it's running a whole nother business. That's why I'm like, if you just want a business, to start a business, because an profit is not easier.
It is not easy.
Thank you, Thank you for because I've never done it. But I just have heard and I'm like, this doesn't This sounds just like they got the same personnel problems you still have, like management issues. Toxicity is running rampant in the nonprofit sector and they're getting away with it because we're a nonprofit. You're all here because you want to do good in the world, So I can treat
you like garbage because I'm you know what do gooder like? Oh, I have such a beef with the nonprofit space, not yours,
of course, I'm saying. And the fact that yes, and it also goes back to what you were saying about being a savvy business owner first running a business properly and you learn I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but do you feel like you learned just management skills leadership skills that have served you now that you have ventured into the nonprofit space with Icon three sixty.
Absolutely, I even tail nonprofits because a lot of times they'll approach brand partnerships with a one page.
Letter and they send this letter out and.
They want people to give them, like fifty thousand dollars from this little letter that they have, And I'm like, you have to approach like we approach our donors in the same way as we approach our sponsorship partners for Harlan sbashi Row very similar. Like even though you're a nonprofit,
your process still needs to be very business like. You need to send out a proper sponsorship proposal that's usually a ten page document showing photos and giving people a peek into like what you do and the impact that you have.
It is.
It is very If you operate a nonprofit like a business, it will probably be really successful. But if you operate a nonprofit from kind of like a charity and you're expecting people to just like give you money, it's going to be really challenging for you to get the bigger dollars.
Absolutely, And also, I mean I just consider a nonprofit to be a business, Like it's just a business. Just what you do with the profits is a little bit different. You know, you give them away, but you still got to pay your staff, You still got to pay your operating expenses. Right, so it is it is legitimately a business. First, what advice would you have to someone who is maybe feeling like the and even describing how do you start
a non nonprofit? When you start that, finding a board, like even making those connections seems like a much higher bar to meet than just starting a business, because any dumb dumb can just like buy an LLC. I did it on a Tuesday because I wanted to, Like, but really it's not that hard. But then to find a board and have, like you said, fiscal responsibility. How if someone does have a legitimate Okay, I'm ready for a nonprofit?
What's your advice to reach out and start to build those relationships or take advantage of ones you may already have to put that board together?
Yeah, I always when you look at your board, you want to look at it and go, what does what does this nonprofit need?
Right?
So, okay, my nonprofit needs money? Okay, who can I put on the board that can connect me to money? My nonprofit needs like a legal specialist?
Who can I put on the board.
Maybe it's an attorney that you put on the board. I want to be able to do nonprofit events that attracts NBA players.
Okay, who can I put on the board? Who has those relationships?
So your board should be really really strategic and the way. We're actually in search of an executive director right now for Icon three sixty, so I haven't expanded our board yet. So my goal is to expand our board, but I don't have the bandwidth to manage those relationships.
And when you have a board, you really need to be able to, you know.
Manage those relationships, stay in communication with them, and so you need a great executive director to be able to do that. Or if this is like your main thing, you need to be the one to make sure that you're constantly like managing the relationships with the people that you have on your board.
That piece is like so so so important.
Otherwise you get into a place where your board might kick you out like you or or your board is doing things that are not in alignment with what your original vision was. So you just want to make sure that.
You have the person in place who can really.
Manage and cultivate those relationships with the board members before you bring people on. But everybody who was on that board should have a clear purpose.
I thought you were going to say, well, they don't like they can leave, but you went right for that. They could kick you out like you give them power. Yeah, we just saw that happen on open ai chat. Do you just got fired and rehired and all this crazy stuff? Oh okay, I wish we had you for more time. But it sounds like you're getting into more of the
space of mentorship as well to entrepreneurs to businesswomen. Tell me, tell us be a fan about what you may have, even if it's not perfectly ready to your standard, which I know is very high. But what are your thoughts on that? And how do you know you're ready to sort of yeah, get more into that teacher side of what you do.
Yeah, you know.
Again, one of the questions I get all the time is about, like, how do I partner with brands like nonprofits? Want to know, how do we get a five hundred thousand dollars donation from a gaping you know? And I just through the years, you pick up all these skills and then you take them for granted.
And I have.
A speaking coach who I work with and He always tells me, brand is, you have so much to teach, why aren't you teaching more?
And finally I was like, he's right, I'm going to start to teach more.
And so I wrote a second book, Small Business Big Partnerships, to help nonprofits and businesses build partnerships with brands and and part of that is because that information you really can't find it anywhere.
Nobody's really telling you. It's kind of like marketing agencies have that info and they don't really want to share it.
But I always go back Mandy to like the Brandes's in two thousand and seven, and everything I do, I'm like, how do I serve her? What she needed was something that didn't cost, you know, one thousand dollars. She needed like a guide for somebody to tell her this is how you do it.
And so I'm just in a place where I'm really ready to share. So I wrote this book.
I'm also doing a lot more like just coaching and teaching on my personal social media, and.
I haven't started to do one on one coaching yet.
I'm not sure if I'm ready for that, but I am definitely excited about sharing, like all of the knowledge that I've gained over this time with other people.
I don't know. Maybe I'm getting older, Mandy, maybe it's age.
Well, I'm about to say, like one on one coaching, you don't you don't actually have to do that at all if you don't want to. And in fact, I love it so much. I loved speaking to women in one on one. But I didn't want to make that my business model as a career coach. I didn't want to make it like I need to get more women to pay me to talk to me now. I want to create a business where I just get to do
that all the time anyway, you know. So for me it was about basically set you created a book, for example, And for me it was like, okay, creating coaching materials, creating things that I'm going to say the same I'm going to say this in coaching sessions. But how can I copy paste exactly what I'm going to say to like ninety percent of people who want, like our conversation
will be these sort of basics. Let me like put that out, create it, sell that, you know, as a one off to anyone who just wants to pick that up and go about their way. But if you want me, like Tiffany says Sauce sold Separately, like I want to create a space. So I had my Mandy money Maker's community for that, where you know, I pop in and we have group coaching all the time, and if I have free time, I'll hop on Slack and answer questions there and just like be able to pour in on
my own time. And it just feels I don't know, it feels better that way. And yeah, but I mean again, I feel like whenever I give advice to or just give my ideas, I feel like to add the caveat of like that's what's worked for me.
Well, now look now we're Bessie. So I was papping into what's working for you because maybe it'll work for me as well.
Well, I'm very very excited whatever, and this is a thing and for people like us who want to have it perfect and you know, do it to a high, high level. I also love to hear that you're giving yourself space to figure it out.
Absolutely know I am.
I did one hundred something free coaching calls before I decided what my business was even going to be. I was like, can I can I talk to people?
Do I like it?
Do they like it. Am I doing something, you know, and then to figure it out the next thing and figured out the next thing. And yeah, I just think too many of us are expecting to have this perfect roadmap and sometimes and I like to hear that you too, just give yourself space to play, just play.
Like I say, everything's in beda, everything's in beta, so it takes the pressure off. There are two things I always tell on myself, brand is, everything's in beta and then let's just see what happens do it.
Let's just see what happens. Maybe it work, maybe it don't. But it takes all the pressure off.
That's my philosophy for life. That's why I'm not that little spitfire at Thanksgiving dinner table that's always going to cause a ruckus. I'm like, let's just ask that question and see what what chaos can I bring? I have Like, it's basically like how a toddler operates, if you think about it. Oh, brand Is Daniel, thank you so so so so much for being so incredibly generous with your time, your wisdom, your thoughts. Be a fan, please please run
and go follow brain As on all platforms. Check out her incredible podcast, which you can see on YouTube called Fashion and Color. You can also listen to it where you're listening to brand Ambition. Why not have a little companion show right, have a little like We can whichever one you want to do first. We can be the appetizer, she can be the entree. Whatever. But brandis I cannot wait to follow more of what you do. And I just thank you again for the generosity much.
For having me. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Bye.