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had to Android, but you know Apple, that's fine. It's fine, and now onto our show.
Hey, hey, hey, it is Mandra and I am joined this week very special. This is the kickoff of our summer co host series, and our first suber co host is Chris Browning from Popcorn Finance.
Hey, Chris, Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be joining you.
I'm excited too. I feel like we have had these tandem podcasting journeys and it wasn't until not that long ago that we actually connected one on one to get to know each other a little bit.
Yeah. I think the pandemic made a lot of zoom meetings possible because we're all at.
Home anyways, it did, and remember how our first call. I think it was maybe three like I set up a call with you, and then it was back before I had childcare, and I think you had to endure maybe fifteen minutes of a screaming child before I finally gave up and put you out of your misery and myself, and I was like, let's do this again. And then maybe three months went by and I was like, I finally have childcare, let's talk, let's do it.
So yeah, no, I understood it. I was like, hey, you can put me on hold and call me back later. It's fine. I understood.
Such a gentleman. Well, let's talk about popcorn Finance for the folks who don't know. Popcorn Finance, which is your podcast. It's been around for four years now, right. You also have another podcast. Note, because one is not enough. I don't know how you do two. Your other podcast is called this is Awkward. Talk to the folks and tell them why they should listen.
Yeah, well, thank you for the introduction there. Yeah, so Popcorn Finance it'll be four years at the end of June, which is crazy. I never would have thought it would be going on this long. But it is a short form podcast where I talk about finance, and about the time it takes make popcorns. That's where the name of the show comes from. It's like short form. I try to keep the episodes under ten minutes and just talk about all things finance, investing, saving money issues, all that stuff.
It's just a place to kind of quickly get into these topics and make it less scary. And as you mentioned, because I apparently don't like the sleep, I started another podcast with the friend of buying Alison from Inspired Budget. We have a show called This Is Awkward, and that one is a little more fun. It's a little more lighthearted.
We have people call in and they share with us awkward money situations that they've dealt with, and then we kind of talked through the situation and gave our advice on how we would have dealt with it or how we've dealt with similar things in the past. So that's the other show I have going on.
Oh I love that. Have you ever had I think we might have a mutual friend broke Millennial Aaron Lowry, Have you ever had it on the show?
I have multiple times.
She wrote a whole book on awkward money conversations. Y'all got to check out the broke Millennial series, just a little plug for a pal, but oh god, that I mean you guys must have endless, endless material because everything about money is awkward.
It really is. It really opened my eyes to how many of us deal with these situations. And I think sometimes we think it's like just us, like, oh, we're the only ones with weird family or friends are asking for money, But it's like no, everybody. Everybody's dealing with this stuff.
I mean, damn, like my family, I'm trying to figure out. We're supposed to have a family reunion in Atlanta this coming weekend, so it's my first trip with Husban and the baby. He's I'm like, let's at least so if we're vaccinated, now things are safer, let's get on the plane. He only rides free for another six months, so I got to take advantage of his free He's still considered an infant even though he's huge, so he's gonna ride
for free. We're gonna go to Atlanta and it's a family reunion and that's the only details I was given. But now it's like my dad is on the outs with my aunt and no one will tell me what I'm like what do I need to bring. I need to figure out who to give money to. I don't know how much, and it's it's already becoming a delightful dramatic situation. But whatever, I'm just there to eat.
So that he had to go into the family situation and just say, hey, I'm just here for the food. Whatever the drama was going on, I'm not a part of that.
Do you. Is your family like into family reunions? Is that a thing, sir? A Browning family reunion every year somewhere.
My family's from the South, so barely anybody is out here in California. Uh so I only went to work, right right? You just how there are you're from? So my dad's from Arkansas, my mom's from Louisiana.
Okay, that's real, real Southern. Yeah, I'm from Georgia. I'm from Atlanta.
Oh yeah, you're from a major city. Where are my dad's from? They they got a Walmart and that's pretty much.
I'm gonna say that is real, real southern those two states right there. Yeah, so we're both Southern transplants on the coasts. Yeah. So this is a big deal for me to even and I'm not gonna lie, there's been family reunions that I haven't gone to just because you know, it was in Georgia and I'm here in New York, and there's always an inconvenient time. But this time, after the pandemic, I think it just helped me realize, you know, how important it is. Like my uncles, God bless them,
they survived this pandemic. My great uncles, they're all in their eighties and nineties, it feels like, and so it's really just like a celebration of you know, that side of the family. So I'm excited to you know, all the drama aside, I'm excited to get us together.
Yeah. I mean, if anything, the past year, it kind of does make you appreciate family, especially your old family, because a lot of people don't have family that they had at this start of the pandemic. So it's like, all right, you know, I need to make it more of a point to you know, see my parents and be around these people who you know you're only gonna be around for so long.
Absolutely. Yeah, well awkward. I mean, honestly, I've been thinking a lot about awkward money conversations lately because for my husband and I, one of the ongoing arguments. I don't know if i'd call it awkward as much as just just a complete difference of opinion about how to spend our money. Really has has always been for maybe the ninety percent of our relationship, we have spent arguing back and forth about whether or not to get a Tesla. Oh, are you familiar with Tesla's, Chris.
I'm very familiar with Tesla's. I've been. I've been stalking Tesla's for many years. I've not I've not met one and brought one into my home yet, but I've been watching them.
Yeah, so was my husband. I mean, this was one of the first huge fights we ever had. Was when we were it was twenty sixteen or something like that. We had moved in with his parents to pay no rent so that we could save up for our wedding.
And you know, and me, I'm the personal finance expert in our relationship, so I like to say, and I'm kind of uptight and maybe a tiny bit of a control freak about our whole saving and plan, you know, especially at that time when we were really working hard to set something aside and pay for the wedding in cash, and at the time you could reserve a Tesla. I forget which model. It was like the one, two, three, X y Z. Who knows, And I you know, he said he talked about Tesla's but I just you know,
it's kind of like sports. I just just in one year out the next like, yeah, he's into that thing. Shouldn't be get a Like yeah, sure, that sounds like a luxury car. We could never afford, so why even you know, entertain that. But one day I got the mail and there was this letter in it and it was like, congratulations, we've we've gotten your thousand dollars commitment and you're in line to get a Tesla. And I sat,
oh what, oh man, I was mad. I mean, looking back on it now, a thousand, I mean it was it was a lot of money, especially when we were literally just putting ourselves so in such an uncomfortable situation living with his parents with one bathroom in a teeny tiny apartment with like no air conditioning and the warst summer in New York. You know, we were struggling. And I'm like, but you spent, like you put down it, not even to get the car, just to get in
line for the car. So that is how far back our Tesla you know, our Tesla debate has gone, or battle, I should say. And for how many years has it been?
Chris?
For five, six, seven years? I have held him. I have held it at Bay. We got the we did the wedding, we did the honeymoon, we got our house, we did the renovation. We had a baby, we had a pandemic, and finally I ran out of excuses, Chris, I ran out of reasons not to get a Tesla. That is what happened, and we took the We took our baby Tesla home today from the Tesla, the Tesla cabbage patch factory thing. Yeah.
Well, I mean, well, congratulations on the car. I mean, that's that's some patience to stick it out all of that time, through all those life events and just like hold out hope. Man, I know, I know one day that Testa's gonna make it home.
He really, I mean, he's the underdog in any like sports and sports movie, except instead of sports. It's like, I just really want to get this this Tesla. And the number of people we haven't told a lot of people but friends and family who he's told. I mean, everyone knows what it means to him, because that is how obsessed this man has been with this car. But he's very consistent. I mean he literally installed Are you handy? I know, do you guys have a house? Are you renting?
We're renting, so, I mean I can. I can only do so much, but I can. I can use a power drill. I can say I can do that much.
Okay, that's pretty impressive. Well, we were renting. We rented for so long before we got the house, and he literally he went to the library took out a book on how to do his own electric and he has been doing all these little electrical projects and he actually installed the charging station for the Tesla, like he made it himself before he even had a Tesla, Like he has been manifesting this Tesla for such a long time. And to see his face, it was actually I was
excited too. It's not like I don't like nice things, you know, Like I love electric vehicles. They're the way, the future, all that stuff. It was. It's a cool car, but it's just so not anything I had ever, you know, in terms of like my values. It's never I was never going to spend a lot of money on a car. It just wasn't a part of my personal I don't know idea of what my values are when it comes to money. Do you in your do you and your wife do y' all have those types of like stalemates
where it's just about are your value my value? For example, I would I would choose travel over everything, and Enrique was like, I really want this car, and that's where we kind of came to head. So do you guys have any of those big like disagreements.
Yeah, I mean we definitely have. I mean, I want to say too, but that that's some dedication. He was like, its just prepping. He was prepping. He put his own charger in there in advance. He just knew it was gonna happen. I just, man, that's I'm impressed we've had those for sure. Like I think I'm more on your side where I'm like, Okay, I have these financial goals. I'm not doing anything else until I get to where I'm going on this. And I'm also I'm not a
big spender, Like I'll spend occasionally, but I don't. It doesn't bother me not to, like, you know, say all right, I'm not going to do this because it costs money and I'll just I'll be fine. And I think that's where we butted heads because for my wife, she's like, well, look we need if we need this for the house or we need to do this, and it's important, it's worth the money, and I'm like, what, But is it though? Really is it really worth the money? Because I'm kind
of liking seeing the savings account to actually grow. Is it really worth it? Like I can give up a lot just for the satisfaction of seeing that I have something in savings, That's what I'm saying. So we've definitely what's the money?
Therefore, if not to just see it like I see it, I want to feel it. I want to like play and roll around in it digitally. Of course, it's really hard to give it up. It's really hard, it is.
It almost it almost hurts a little bit. There's been times where stuff has come up and we've had to pull a big chunk from the savings and I feel like I was physically in pain when I went and pulled the money out, Like it hurt me, and I was like, maybe I shouldn't care this much, But you know, it's just one of those things where it's like this. It's like my example of my hard work. Like I seeing that balance is like, look, we did that, we
made it. We made it to this point, and it's hard to give it up.
Yeah, that's how I felt anytime we've like we paid off the last bit of our home renovation last summer and it was like a twenty thousand dollars hit all at once because we had finance something zero percent and which was great for the eighteen months we had at zero percent, but then you had to the way the low of course, the way the loan worked was that you were never going to pay it off if you just did the minimum payments until the end of the
eighteen months. And then of course they yeah, of course, and they had the like deferred interest clause, which basically says, if you leave even one penny left on this loan after this promotional period's over, oh we're going to pretend like you always paid interest on this huge loan and we're going to attach it. We're going to add it
right on top of what's left. So we you know, had that big kind of lump sum payment that went out and yeah, it's been but that's always been my excuse I'm always like, Okay, you know we're going to get this house. That's a big chunk for the down payment, then the renovation. Okay, let's get that out of the way. And then I literally just ran out of things and he's yeah, and it's but I have to say, as painful as it can be, at least it has brought
him joy, you know. I think that's where I was really too stubborn a little bit was And I apologize. I really did apologize to him. I don't know, I just because for him, and he really sat down and he's like, look, look, it's almost as if you're saying what I value doesn't matter. You know. What I value is amazing technology, safe travel. You know, I want to be a part of you know, clean technology, like this electric vehicle. He and he's an expert in this car
and the company. He's read the damn book, you know on what's his face, the CEO, Elon Musk, like he's read his memoir. He's he's all in. You know, we even own Tesla stock. And he had been saving this past year. He had an investment account and then he also was putting aside money to save for his Tesla so, and he's like, honestly, it's starting to really get ridiculous
the fact that you're not willing to budge here. And but yeah, I was just so single minded and it feels good to just like get over myself a little bit and have some damn fun with the money that we've you know, work so hard for.
You know, it's one of those things where you kind of can get the tunnel vision almost and you just forget that there is some enjoyment that comes with enjoying the money that you've worked hard to earn. Yeah, and you kind of just I don't know, and especially like
I think too. For me, it was hard seeing from my wife's point of view the things that she values that sometimes you know, if it does cost money, it's worth it because it's meaningful, it had, it brings joy, it adds to your life, to her life having these things. And it's not just so, you know, I just want to spend money. It's like, no, these are things I value doing and just because I don't value them doesn't
make them valuable to some woman else. And that's it's hard to it's kind of hard to reprehen hit your head around that.
I mean what's your guilty pleasure. Don't you have like a tiny house addiction? I do kind of come home with a tiny house one day.
You know, if I could, if it wasn't so hard in California, I might have bought one. At this point, I would say, I don't. That's the thing. I don't really buy too many things. But technology is probably my weakness when it comes to like gadgets and devices and computers and tablets and microphones things like that. But I kind of can hide that behind the podcast. So I think that's how I convinced myself, Well, I'm not really spending Yeah, this is a business expense, right, that is
for sure. My weakness is like anything that connects to the internet. I'm eyeing.
Yeah. I told him. I was like, I feel like a real hypocrite when I start thinking about all the money we spend on Broadway, and I mean the things that I've enjoyed doing vacations and stuff. And he's like, can I have something? So we got and you know what, the Tesla purchase, I have to say, was made possible in part by this crazy, ridiculous economy that we have right now that has somehow made used cars more valuable
than they were a year ago, which is insane. So we actually, yeah, we ended up selling our We had a twenty sixteen Mazda some CX five. I think we ended up listing that on a Facebook marketplace to sell it, and kind of we weren't necessarily going to sell it, but when we actually looked at what we could get for it. I think Enrique, my husband, he had checked a year ago and saw that the car was valued
at thirteen thousand dollars on the resale market. Today it's valued us It was valued at sixteen thousand dollars, or at least that's what we sold it for.
That makes no sense.
It's crat craz We bought it for nineteen thousand, like five years ago. You know, that's just not a thing that cars do. I thought, so by selling it, we definitely were able to eat away some of the cost of upfront cost of a Tesla, and you know, that felt good and kind of take advantage of this topsy turvy economy right now.
Yeah, you know, funny enough, I had a friend yesterday I met it with him for the first time since the pandemic started, and we were talking about the used car market, and I told him, yeah, my car. I bought a used car. It was a twenty fourteen Hondai. I bought it in twenty seventeen, and I'm sorry, twenty nineteen. I bought it and it all. I bought it for twenty one thousand, and it's now worth nineteen thousand, five hundred and I've had this car for three years. And
he's like, you just need to sell it. And I was like, but then I got to buy another car.
You got to buy another car, yep.
But really he was really pushing me. He's like, we'll just buy a new car. Then I was like, well, hey, it's easy for you to make decisions with my money. But I'm he's really getting into my head.
Now.
I'm like, well, I don't know, because I mean, I'm not gonna lie that I have not also been looking at Teslas.
I mean, that's the thing. I mean, if this is the rationale, and believe me, we were just at a friend's house yesterday and Enrique has now become that friend at the cookout who had a really lucky set of circumstances happened, and he's like ready to tell everybody to follow in his footsteps. Listen, don't be that person at the cookout. Not everybody like can do the things that worked out specifically for you in your situation. But he's like, yeah,
youhould sell your car, you know, to our cousin. Sell your car and then you can get enough something else. But the other thing is like, do you own that cart right or do you still have a loan on it?
That's the thing. It's completely paid off and it's been paid off for a year now.
Oh yeah, well then see our car was paid off too, and that's where that's really where you can get the value. So if you have a lean on your car, so if you own or sorry, if you owe anything on a loan or are you're still financing it, it's really tricky to then try and sell that car. It's especially if you do it yourself, like as a private seller. I guess you have to like pay the loan back and then get the title and then sell it to someone else. But that's a you know, may not be
something that someone's willing to do. But for us, it really did make sense to just go ahead and sell it. We owned the title, owned it outright. We could have traded it in Tesla offered us fourteen thousand, but then our financial planner was like, you know what, I really think you guys should post it. I've sold all my cars on Craigslist and I get way more And sure enough we got it sold within like ten hours for sixteen thousands.
That's amazing, And I mean it just goes to show you too. Like these dealers, I mean I've to see their business. So they're trying to get this car from you as cheap as possible because they know how much more it's worth.
You know who bought it from us, a used car dealer, really, so even he's planning to sell it for more than that, I'm like, good, good, good luck, my friend, good luck. But yeah, it's a it's a Craig Cray world out there. So I guess for y'all, I mean, how close are you to is your rationale? Like, Okay, you know the car is worth a lot more now, so if I do sell it, I would have more money in the bank for a nicer car, maybe a new car. That's how you're feeling?
Well? How I before my friend bombarded me with this his argument for why I should sell my car, my mind was like, well, look, I don't have a car payment right now, and I'm really liking this is the first time in my life I've not had a car payment.
It's a good life, it is.
And I was like, it's just like, man, there's just so much more money in my bank account. So I've been like a hard set on. I'm never selling this car. I'm only gonna sell it when it breaks down on the side of the road and I can't get it started again. But he was making good arguments, So that's the hard part. When your friends make arguments that are actually legit about spending money. It kind of like it started rattling my mind a little bit. So I haven't
made any decisions. I'm just trying to forget that he talked to me about this, but it's in the back of my mind. I'm thinking I may make a spreadsheet and run some numbers.
Is it because rates are also really low right now?
Yeah.
I mean that's the thing too, is to finance it.
It would be so cheap to finance a difference right now, and it wouldn't even be like I don't even feel guilty about it.
But free money. Well, I mean our rate was two point four and we have near perfect credit. I really wanted like a one point nine, but it just wasn't going to happen. I think you can get those rates as low if you look at credit unions and stuff. But anyway, didn't happen for us. But yeah, that that kind of did it for me too. So now we have a car note for the first time in five years, and I don't love it. But but here's the thing, chris By not find By. We could have paid cash
for the whole thing. That's the thing. My and my planner was like, Mandy, you know what the right you know what the rationale is right, you can invest that money instead, and you're gonna make more than that little two percent, most likely in an investment account. So I'm trying to level up my I'm trying to go to the next level. You know, there were certain like protective strategies and mindsets that definitely got us where we are today. But like for that next level wealth building, we gotta
think a little different. We gotta like think think rich. Literally, we meaning me and my husband. You know, you do your thing, but no, you're.
Right, you're right, because it's one of those things where it's hard to let yourself like you're thinking kind of change. It feels like wrong, say, look I did this, it worked, I just keep doing this forever. But you going to like there's different stages to life. Is if everyone's in a different position, and something that worked for you, you know will work for me five years ago doesn't mean
something different will work now. It's like you know, it's it's it's getting your mind open to changing and thinking about different ways of building wealth and not just like I don't I find myself being stuck in the oh, I'm paying off debt mindset that I was in for years and not in the Hey, now I want to build wealth and really look for the future.
When you think about building wealth, what does that look like for you?
You know? For me, I think the first thing that always pops into my mind is freedom and having choice and options. And I really like the idea of being at a point where it's like if I want to do something different like career wise, because I don't know, I don't necessarily want to get to a point like where I'm younger and I'm not working at all, but where I can just choose, you know what, this is meaningful for me? This project, or working with this organization,
or just doing something completely different. It's okay because I'm not bound by the need to have to have a certain amount of money, because I've already accumulated enough wealth to have those that freedom. And I think that's just something really like power powerful about saying, look, I have choices. I can make the decision because I want to debt because I'm looking at my bank account and I got obligation sitting there for me.
Yeah, I think for me it's also I mean, it's definitely freedom. But I'm trying to be more specific now. I think I've gotten to the point now where it's okay, what's the number? You know, what is what's the new goal? I was similar to you, you know, I'm well, now are you a I consider myself now. I think we're
supposed to be like called geriatric millennials now here. I know it's so terrible, but that's like the new thing older millennials who've got you know, we got a little we've paid out the student loan debt or it didn't really have that much, and now we've got like kids
and a mortgage and all that kind of stuff. Just uh, old fuddyduddy millennials, and for me, it's like, Okay, the next step is, you know, maybe getting a lot more specific and like and you know, the the tried and true rules of thumb that I abided by in the past, I've got to come up with new rules. I got to figure out how did the uber healthy, how do they operate? And I need to start being on that level. And it's scary, but it's also kind of it's exciting.
And for me, you know, I don't have a ton of I don't have any anyone in my family necessarily to look to for tips. I do have a financial planner, but I'm trying to find you know, maybe even like different podcasts or different books I can start reading just to like literally think how the wealthy think. In my mind, I was like, I want to. I want to invest till I have two million dollars and I want to
be there and you know, the next five years. And someone was like, why don't you make a million dollars like in a weekend if you learn to trade stocks? And I'm like, I don't. It does not compute. I don't want to, but people are doing it, so yeah, it's it's it's exciting slash really really intimidating.
Yeah, it really is. And I think that's the hard part right now too, is there's there's so many people in the news making a bunch of money from all the time, different things going on right now. Yeah, and it's I don't know, it's very tempting. I'm what I'm finding more and more about myself is I'm very risk averse. I'm very like, hey, you know what, I would like to do some things, but I'm not comfortable risking what I've worked so hard to save up. And it's a
hard mindset shift for me to make. It'd be like, all right, you know what, maybe I should I have my emergency fund, I'm investing for retirement. Maybe I should look at other opportunities. But I'm always like, hey, I this took a long time. Let me let me let me slow down on any of these other ideas people are throwing at me.
Yeah, just exactly. You're like in the protect phase, which is fine. You know, you want to protect what you've built. But we'll see, I mean, you know, not too uh not to pure pressure. But the Tesla does ride really really nice to the Starbucks. But you know, what we got caught in a huge traffic jam, and I was like, well, it's still gets stuck in traffic just like another car does. So it doesn't have any magical like traffic avoiding properties that would really be value to me.
I know. But then they can drive itself though, as your husband like trying to talk about his plans to take a nap while he's like commuting or anything like that.
No, I don't think that that's a feature we're going to be turning on. I don't even know if but I forgot about that.
Can it drive itself?
I don't know, Chris, I just don't know. I had a hard time figuring out how to turn the air conditioning on earlier, let alone auto pilot.
That's true, Baby.
Steps, Baby steps. Well, it's really fun to have you on the show. Why don't we take a quick break and we'll be right back to answer some of y'all's questions. All right, we are back, and yes I am joined by the one and only Chris Browning, who is filling some very big budget needs to shoes. How's it going, Chris? How are you feeling so far?
I was fine, and now you may be nervous Okay, I'm just joking, joking.
Okay, I should have made you do the hey hey hey, oh god. Well, we are here to answer your questions and never fear even without Tiffany here, we have Chris from the Popcorn Finance here to help me tackle y'all's personal finance and career questions. Okay, so we've got some excellent questions from ig. First one comes from listener Lachene.
Lachine says, I just found your podcast after buying Tiffany's book, and I'm obsessed in her book, which is I will add here you guys called Get Good with Money, which you can get at get goodwith Money dot com. It's an eight week national wait, eight week New York Times bestseller. At this point, it's insane anyway, So Lachine found us through her book. She says, in the book, Tiffany talked about determining if you have a budgeting problem or an income slash earning problem. And I think I have an
earning problem. When I wanted to get y'all's opinion, I make fifty thousand dollars a year. After taxes and insurance and my retirement retirement savings, I'm left with about twenty nine hundred dollars per month. I can comfortably pay my bills, save for travel, and add money to my IRA. But that's about it. I want to save more, but there's nowhere else in my budget. I feel like I can slice and dice. What do you guys think? So, what's your take on like a budget versus an income problem?
Chris, This is a great question here, and I think sometimes we do get trapped in they Okay, let's let's budget, let's cut and let's save where we can, which is good to go through and evaluate your budget and see where you're maybe wasting money. But the only thing is you can only cut so much. If you've already you got your stuff under control, and you're really diligent with high spend, you're gonna get to a point where you
just can't cut anything else. And if you want to increase your or increase the money available to invest and do other things with, yeah, you have to make more. Which is is it's much harder than cutting, but it's way more impactful in the long run.
Yeah. I mean, if you guys need to hear it here first, although I'm pretty sure we've said it before, you cannot budget your way to wealth building. You can't do it. You cannot become rich by budgeting. You can get part of the way there, certainly you can, and it's certainly a good starting point. And I think at most levels you should have at least an idea of what's going in and what's going out and what's left over.
Budgeting is amazing, but it ain't going to get you there, And I think I think it definitely sounds like if you're to the point where you want to put more money away and you just don't have it and you can't. Literally you've looked at the budget and you're like, what am I gonna do? Like live in my car? You can't, you know, there's nothing else to slice and dice, like you say, so it is time to start looking at a couple different things. I am huge about the impact
your career. I'm very passionate about the impact that your career choices can have in helping you accumulate wealth. And I'm also huge on looking for additional income streams on top of, you know, outside of your nine to five job or whatever work you happen to do, so that you diversify the income streams that you have After a year like this, it certainly feels like a lot of people were turning to side hobbies or side hustles as they say, you know, you're starting their own businesses to
bring in extra money. Because it was a real kick in the ass, you know, to realize how vulnerable we all were, especially those of us who were tied to a nine to five job that either you had layoffs or cut back hours. I mean, it all felt very like scary and a good reminder about the importance of having those different income streams. So I mean, Chris, both
and I You and I both have podcasts. You know, I don't think either of us is rolling in the dough from the podcast life, but especially not if you're getting all the upgraded equipment that it sounds like you're accumulating. But you know, talk about like the podcast and what other what do you what do you think about different income streams and how someone could you know, bring in extra wealth.
Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm I'm a fan of doing other things and building other streams of income and businesses and just things you own on your own. Because one, I just enjoy the process of making something and having it something that I've created is just it's just a cool experience and just I don't know, it makes you feel good, like, look, I've made this thing. I've put
my time and sweat into this and it's here. So I'm definitely for finding things that you're you're passionate about, that you enjoy doing, that you see an opportunity to have a viable business doing and pursuing those because, like you said, you know, jobs are secure until they're not until something happens where they need to move on from you. Uh, you know, things could change overnight. But but just like you,
I'm a huge fan of growing within your career. Uh. That was one of the biggest things that helped us get out of debt. And when we my wife and I kind of got serious about our finances, we had about twenty seven thousand dollars in credit card debt and we were taking home like forty five thousand dollars between the two of us, which was not enough money and not especially not in southern California. It is not much.
Did you do that?
Wow? It was rough. We were living in a tiny house, a very small studio for several years, and really we cut our budget down to like nothing, like we were not having any fun. Nothing was getting spent that didn't need to be spent, and it still was going so slow. It was such a long journey, and so for me, that's why I went and I left it. Okay, this is how much I'm making. I think at the time, I've got how much I was making by myself, but it wasn't I clearly wasn't a lot. What do I
need to do? And so that's when I started saying, all right, what professional organizations can I join. I started joining these different groups for bookkeepers, and I would go to conferences and I would help organize the speakers, and then I would meet other people from other places, and I would find out about new openings and build up
my resumes. When I applied for the next job, it's like, whoh you did all of this, Like, oh, yeah, you know, you can kind of pump yourself up, and so doing things like that it allowed me to increase my income so much faster than if I would have just stayed at my one job and hoped for a nice raise, which wasn't going to gum.
What were you doing at the time your backgrounds in accounting? Uh?
Yeah, like accounting and bookkeeping work. So at the time I was a payroll supervisor. I was running a peril department at a school district actually, and so.
You're managing paychecks and trying to get a bigger one exactly.
I would see everyone who was making more money than me and be like, all right, I need to do something about this.
That's got to be really depressed.
You know, when you see some of those paychecks, you're like, I don't know what these people are doing right now, but I need to make some changes and get one of these because it's way more than I'm geting.
You know what's bad if you're like jealous of a like a I don't know what kind of school teachers these were, but uh, I'm feeling like a middle school math teacher is making more. It's like, ooh, okay.
It's time. Yeah. I was like, because we all know teachers aren't paid that well, and I was getting paid a lot less than than the majority of teachers.
That's a crime. Yeah, I've I love that, you know. I was recently celebrating with my husband because we've really been focused on increasing our net worth and we we did the math with our planner and realized that we have increased our net worth by tenfold in the last five years.
Wow.
And I was I was sitting down and we're gonna I'm gonna do a specific show about it. But as I was sitting through and working through, you know, how did we do this? I'll tell you one thing. It wasn't by budgeting the most significant the biggest reasons. And I part of me almost feels a little or used to feel a little, not ashamed. But I think people want to hear that we just pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps, and you know, we coopon clipped and we and we we were good people and we just worked
real hard. They want to hear that kind of story. But the truth is was that I was super ruthless
with pursuing new opportunities when two things were true. When I could earn significantly more and when I could challenge myself professionally, so when I could when I was offered, when I was offered I was in other jobs, and when I was offered opportunities to move to a different company, as long as the opportunity was professionally rich like I could, I was learning a new skill, I was getting to try a new position or something like that, and it
came with additional income. I was definitely willing to take it. And I was very risky with some of my career choices, and they could have gone the other way entirely, you know,
without with risk comes rewards or you know, disaster. But it was because of those choices I was able to negotiate, you know, thirty percent fifty percent raises equity in companies that I was joining, which opened me up to even addition, no opportunities to build wealth as long as that stock price in that company went up, which I was fortunate
enough to have that happen sometimes. So like, those are the types of things that that I'm I'm ready to just be honest about it because there's no shame in it. In fact, I had to do it. I'm a black woman in America, you know, like we don't make that much money. We make sixty percent of what a white
man earns. So for me, I just always thought about when I went into like a salary negotiation, or when I was approached by a competitor or a different company to come work for them, I really looked at that as an opportunity it's often the best opportunity you can get to negotiate a higher salary and staying at the same place for a long time. It ain't it, y'all. It is not it in terms of in terms of salary growth, especially if you came in entry level, that
is not the way to increase your income unless. I mean, you can stay there if you love your job, But then you got to start side hustling on, you know, get a side business or take a hobby and start bringing in cash, you know, on top of your earnings. But loyalty does not pay in corporate America. It doesn't. I am proof of that. I really had to make those big, scary leaps to get to where I am today, to get those bigger paydays.
No, I mean, I love that so much because I've seen it where in a situation no one I won't name a place so no one can figure out what I'm talking about, but that was the place.
Well, we'll leave Chris alone. Don't get it, don't get them in trouble.
Don't get me in trouble. Please don't go research this place. But I was working at this place. There's a woman there, she was amazing at her job, she was amazing, and she just wanted She didn't didn't eve think she was asking for a raise. She just wanted a better title than what she had. And they're like, no, we can't do that. I'm sorry, it's something so easy. They were like, no, we can't do that, but what you're great? So she's like,
you know what, all right, I'm out of here. So she left, got a better job, got the title she wanted, and got a pay raise. The person they brought in to replace her, they gave the title that she wanted and more money, and it was like they could have done it all along, but it was just like, well, they think we have you here, you're not going to leave, so we're not going to do anything. And that's where you like, I mean, I agree with you one hundred percent.
That's that's the only way you're going to make these significant leaps sometimes is to define better opportunities outside of where you are, because they have no incentive to make your pay jump significantly.
And you may think that they're the nicest people. You know, they've come to your housewarming parties, they gave you a nice little gift when you had a baby or you got married, it does like they're not going It takes a lot of effort. I was that manager who really fought for raises and promotions for my people when I didn't have to because I wanted to retain them. I and there were plenty of people who just don't do that because it takes a lot of time. It takes effort.
You got to like do your research, you got to bat for people. It's just not in a lot of people's best interests to go to bat for folks. That's work. So yeah, I love that example. I mean, I hate it, but it's a really good example of what we're talking about here. Loyalty does not pay all mm hmm. But I want to talk a bit about before we get to the next question about starting a new business. Like I literally I'm at a point where I just started
a new business. Hell guys, I'm I'm the CEO and founder of Mandy Money Media, which is a independent content consulting firm and editing and writing business. Yay, do I get the pendant? Thanks? You know, do my own thing. After a long, well like a decade of experience, I'm striking out on my own and what's so fun for me has been doing these things, Like I filed for an LLC. It's shockingly easy to do this, y'all. You just need a little bit of money and like Google,
like you just had a Google. If you go to your state's Department of Labor website or just google your state LLC, it'll have a very easy to fill out form, pick your name, give them your little coins. I had it within minutes. I got approved and got my my LLC established. And then it's what the i RS do? Did you do? Piet? We get a taxpayer or an employee ID number through the i RS dot gov.
And that's such an easy process. And then you don't have to give people your Social Security number either.
Yeah, I mean I think I might have to like get it, but yeah, I was. I was shocked. It was instantly, Oh, here's your e i N. Here you go. And once I had that ei N, what did I do? I went and got a business bank account, just did some Googles to find the best one. Although I will say, I don't know if you have a business bank account or credit card yet, do you?
Uh? Yeah, I do have the credit card. I've not gone to the banking route. I'm still I mean I probably shouldn't be saying this out loud, but yeah, maybe you lessonings and personal accounts as business accounts right now.
You know, that's cool. It depends on how you. I did learn that, you know, when I was trying to decide whether to do an LLC or work as a sole proprietor. It's very different, like in terms of how how you can commingle your personal versus professional expenses and things like that. But definitely I got a phone with my CPA and he was like, LLC is the way to go. So that's what I did. And yeah, but then it took seconds and the oh the business bank account.
What I was going to say, is I because that's I wanted. I'm gonna get paid soon, hopefully, hopefully soon from clients. You know, I'm manifesting it like my husband installing his Tesla charger five months before he actually had a Tesla. I'm going to get this. I got a bank account through a online bank, and it was kind of hard to find a fee free business bank account.
It seems like a lot of them charge. They either have a minimum required balance, which I don't know if I'm gonna make I'm gonna make money, but like, I can't, I can't commit right now that I'm going to be making a certain amount. Yeah, so it took a lot of comparing and contrasting, but I definitely I was able to get one. And you have to have your EI N in order to get one set up. And then I got approved for a personal sorry, a business credit card, which was exciting. So it's it. You can do it.
And look, I'm a business who. You can't tell me nothing. I'm a business owner, right, I don't need a storefront. I'm doing it.
It's so different than what people thought of, like what people I think. We have a much different image in our head of what it takes to be a business owners. It's so it's such an easy process these days, it really is.
So I hope that that motivates y'all and inspires you to look at you know, if you're like me and you've been doing something for a long time, you know, and you realize you've got a certain set of skills that companies would pay to take advantage of or leverage you know. That's a way of like let's say I was still doing my you know, had a nine to five job. I could I could feasibly do this on the side and just bring in some extra income, and
that's the beginning again to true wealth building. So I love that Tiffany covered that in her book, Get It with Lenny dot Com. Y'all she got the book. I love that she covered that in the book because it really is like it's the next level from just basic budgeting, really focusing on your income.
Yeah, it really is such a great idea. And I've started to discover too, is that the bar is actually very low for a lot of what people consider good work. I'm very shocked for whatever it's right in my mind, it's like people are like, if you're gonna do something for a company, it's like it has to be the
best thing that's ever been made. But I've I've I'm not gonna again, I'm not gonna name any companies, but I've I've witnessed some some businesses doing work that I'm like, that's all it took for you to get paid, And well, I guess I need to step it up and do some other things.
I know well in my career I've employed people like myself, and I'm like, I know exactly how much mediocrity there is out there. I'm gonna go out there and be the best, and it's not going to be that hard because it's a lot of mediocrep. Okay, not to shave anybody, but it's a really good point. It truly is, and I yeah, I'm excited about this new journey. And thank you Lachene for your question and for checking out our podcast.
I love that. Well, let's take one other question. This one is a juicy one because as Jerry millennials, Chris, I'm.
Really not liking this title. I'm really not.
As old ass millennials like we. Life insurance is like what we talk about at cookouts now right, it's what you know. Maybe at my cookouts we talk a little bit about life insurance, but I don't know about you. But that's what our next question is about. So let's get in it all right. This one's from anonymous, and they say, my husband and I are getting ready to buy life insurance. We have a three year old, a house, we have good jobs, we're working on wealth and building
our or getting our life secure. Do you guys recommend whole or term life insurance? Very sexy, interesting question, but an important one. Let's talk about the difference between whole versus term life insurance, Chris, anything you want to jump into.
Uh yeah, So term life is kind of like what it sounds like, it's it's good for us set term. So you normally say how many years you'd like this policy to be good for, so you know, ten, twenty plus years, and you typically go with this to you know, cover a period of time where you're like, hey, if something were to happen, we would definitely need some support for other people in the family who I'm leaving behind.
Whereas whole life policy, it's as long as you're still paying your premiums, it's good for your whole life.
Yeah, And is that the kind where you can maybe get some annuities later on where it kind of pays you out in retirement.
Well, with the whole life policy, you can build up like a cash balance almost in it as you put more and more money into these policies. So there are situations where you can pull money out of these policies or pass them on just depending on the type of a whole life insurance you go with.
Gotcha, And this is big business for a lot of financial planners out there, especially if you're working with traditional financial advisors because a lot of them are in the business of literally selling insurance products to their customers, and that's why it's important to vet your financial advisor. I mean, no shade, I mean obviously, insurance is a very important product. You want to you want your family to be taken care of if you were to pass away. That's literally
what it's for. But because they can be really lucrative, like like especially whole term whole insurance, like Chris was talking about, Like you're talking about someone paying you monthly for their entire life. So that's like a especially if you're someone who works on commission, that's a cash cow. Baby, that's a cash cow. So they, like the financial planner is getting an annuity out of you, you know, basically when you sign up for a whole insurance Yah. And
so you do have to think about that. Now, do you have life insurance? Chris? Like, have you bought a policy for you and your your wife outside of what your work might offer you?
So, yeah, we have term life insurance. And I think for the reason you mentioned that, like whole life, there's there's definitely circumstances where people could utilize that and it'd be useful for what they have going on. But oftentimes, like those commissions are very nice for those whole whole life policies. That's why they often get pushed as an alternative to you in best on your own.
Yeah, absolutely, and that's for me, that was the deciding factor. So I just had a baby too, So like our listener, she has a young child three years old, my son's eighteen months. When I finally had the baby, that's when I was like, oh god, my life matters now. I mean, of course that mattered before, but like my earning. You know, my husband, he's gainfully employed, he's young, but my son, you know that that was my wake up call really
to get my own policy. And also a colleague of mine in the past had told me, you know, you really ought to get your own life insurance policy beyond what you're At the time, I was working for an employer, and most employers provide free life insurance or it's like a dollar or two dollars or something like that, because it's not enough coverage to really last the life of
your child. And like, for example, I think in the past, I've had life insurance through work that's like two hundred thousand dollars and maybe like some short term disability coverage. But you know, I ended up getting a policy that was valued at a million dollars and I came to that at the time. It could have been higher. There's a rule of thumb that says to ten x your salary to get your your policy. But I think I was earning like two hundred thousand at the time, so
two million dollars seemed like a lot of money. So I was like, okay, let me just start with one, see how that goes. But yeah, I ended up doing a twenty I think a twenty five year term because for me, it's not just about it is about, of course, providing a financial windfall for your family so that they can move on without you and still you know, maintain the same quality of life. But it's also you know, how likely am I to make it to my I'm thirty three now, how likely am I to live till
I'm sixty, you know? Or how much how long do I want them to be covered? Basically, and I figure by the time I'm sixty, if I'm still around, they'll the kids if I have more than one, they'll be you know, adults and will be able to take care of themselves and by then I will have like saved
invested for their college expenses or whatnot. So I felt very comfortable just doing the twenty five year term for my life insurance for that and then like you said, like you could do the whole life insurance and put a bunch of money away and then have your cash balance. But you could also just do that in a brokerage account and put money away and potentially make even more over time to create wealth for yourself.
Yeah, exactly. I wanted to ask you too, like so for you and your husband, was that a difficult conversation to have because I know people who do not like talking about the possibility of dying, and so that's why they never look into life insurance.
It really you really have to not think about what you're doing. It's very depressing. And yes, and especially you know, if I would do anything differently, I might have done it before I had the baby, like while I was pregnant, or even like a little bit before that, because I do think you know, if you have a kid, of course, it's very very much worth it because you have the child, like I said, and if you don't have a child. Then really it's about your spouse. Can they provide for
themselves without you? Et cetera. But it was a very emotional conversation. As soon as I had that baby and my husband saw me as a mother, he became very afraid of me dying. It was a weird and I think and me too, I became as a new mom. I was afraid of everybody dying. Like I was, like, he could die, the baby could die. I could die more. Life is so fragile, why are we doing it? Like what have we done? There's so much to lose, you know,
it is really scary to think about it. And yeah, it wasn't a fun conversation, but it was a really easy process to just go compare some options. You know, a very nice doctor person came to my house because it was the pandemic at that point, did a house called did my blood and all that kind of stuff, And it wasn't that if you just forget about why you're doing it and pray that you know, you know, just just just do it for peace of mind for your children, and then pray you never really have to
use it. It's like any insurance product, right, you hope you don't have to use it, but you're grateful if if it comes in handy.
Yeah, exactly. It's one of those things like I think people avoid it because, like you said, you kind of go into that spiral of thinking about what happens if you or someone you care about is that here anymore. Yeah, but it's kind of like it's like it's almost one of the nicest things you can do for the people in your life. Yes, who are part of your family. You're gonna end up who you so I help support.
It's like, look, I don't want them to be, you know, on the street because I'm not here anymore, and everything got too expensive and overwhelming for them. So I almost had to reframe it so that way. I didn't so you don't get stressed out about it.
Yeah, and then you I feel like it's always a plot point in movies, like where someone gets killed for your life insurance policy. So it's never exactly like the happy, go lucky kind of topic to get brought up. But think about how once the grief, of course, everyone's going to miss you and they'll never you know, my husband will never find anyone like me. I'll haunt him for life. If he even tries, but at least he'll be able to provide, you know, a good life for our kid
and my dog. And we had a guest on there's a really good episode of Brown Ambition. Maybe we can find the link to it where we had a life insurance expert on and I'm like, forgetting on her name, damn it, what's her name? Anyway, she came on and one of her points was, especially for black and brown communities, even if you don't have children, consider getting a policy
because you can make a nonprofit your beneficiary. And this is another way of potentially passing down wealth in communities that don't have a lot of you know, wealthy benefactors for example. So you know, even if you're single and you don't have any children, take a life an insurance policy out term life insurance. It's really not that terribly expensive, especially if you're younger, and look at it as a way of passing on wealth, you know, to a good
cause if you were to pass away. I thought that was really interesting point that she made.
That is such a great idea that never even crossed my mind either. That would be such a great way to help out a cause, like if there's no one you need to worry about supporting after you leave. I mean, that'd be a great way to help out an organization you care.
About, or just like get one of those cool benches. I've always wondered, like how do people get those benches in Central Park?
You know, I'm always looking like these donors are who are these people who are donating these money and getting their names on stuff? Like what's going on? What's this process they did?
That's all you need to know. They had some money and they died. That's what happened. Chris, all right, Well that was fun. See you're doing it. You're doing it. I'm talking more to myself than to you. I'm the one who's like Tiffany, what am I going to do without her? But so far, so good.
I'm definitely not trying to replace Tiffany and live up to those standards because she's she's and I won't get into it, but she's an amazing speaker. I always love both of you. Are I love listening to both of you.
Oh thank you. Well, it's been really wonderful having you on. But you're not off the hook yet. My friend, my new financial friend, because we have to do our favorite segment, Second favorite segment after questions brown boost and brown Break, I'm not doing any of the musical things that Tiffany usually does either. I'm sorry, y'all. What does she usually do for brown boost? Brown Boost, brown break, brown Boost, star break? What you're gonna do? She always puts it
on me. Whatever she's singing, it always has to rhyme with Mandy, so that I'm the one who has to go first, which is fair. I will go first. Do you need me to revisit the rules of brown boost or brown breaking? Chris?
Uh, yeah, that'd be good.
Okay, So brown boost, it's really an important choice. Okay, It's either like, do we want to leave the show in a high note or do we want to leave the show on a funny slash kind of a down note. So a brown boost we're talking about something that we're excited about that's positive in our lives or careers or finances or whatnot. And then a brown break is something that's really been getting us down financially, career wise, personally.
We just want to call out because sometimes it feels good to put a name to something that's bothering you, and other people tend to relate to it. So that is the choice which one of those speaking to you at this particular time.
I mean, I didn't want to put end it on a negative note. I can make it less negative, but yeah, I think I'll go with the brown break because that's what's bothering me here at these people.
Investment. Okay, so we're both going to do a break, y'all. Okay, so get ready, double breaker. We don't often have a back to back break. This is going to be It's going to be fun. All right, Chris, do you want to go first? Yeah?
All right, I can hop in here. Okay. So my brown break is I've been I've been getting more messages than I care to receive from friends are who are investing in all kinds of things in AMC, in cryptocurrencies and all this stuff, and it's just like, look at how much money I made, and you sure you don't want to get in on this, and I'm like, no,
I don't. I really don't want to do this. I try not to be mean when I get the messages and tell them to stop sending these things to me, but I'm more so nervous for the other people in the group. Chats because I can be like, oh whatever, I just ignore it and kill about my day. But I'm like, I can see how some of other friends are like, well, maybe I need to go and pull some money out of my retirement account. I hop in on this this AMC thing, and I'm like, please don't do that.
Oh my god, out of your four one Okay.
No, please don't do that. And I'm like, that's the thing that people get caught up in the hype of all of this, and it can lead to some people to make really quick, bad decisions. And so that's why, that's why, that's what I'm choosing for today.
Oh God, yeah, I feel you. And especially I remember the story of my dad. My dad drives a he drives for the public transit service in Atlanta called Marta, And one day he's like, Mandy, one of my pastors was telling me about penny stocks he lives. He used he used to be a stockbroker in New York, and he's like, you need to get all these penny stocks because they're worth pennies today, but they can be worth millions tomorrow. And I said, Dad, you're going to take
advice from a very nice man. But he used to be a stockbroker, and now he's riding your bus, and that's the man that you want that you're trying to become. No no, no, no no no no no. But if it's not something on the bus, it's like the guy at the now. I keep using the cookout analogy, but really it is the group text now group text or Facebook groups, investing clubs, you know like elon, musk tweets and bitcoin tanks or sores whatever. Like people, it's just
so crazy out there right now. I don't know how listen. I don't I don't feel like I would take investment advice from friends either, But what what would get you to maybe like listen to a stock pick from one of those group texts, or has any of them ever worked out for you from.
A group text? I don't know if there's anything that any of my friends could do to make me take one of their pieces of advice the text message. You know, this is probably like a trust issues. So I had a friend who he was really into like buying and selling shoes when we were younger. He was a sneaker head, so he would buy you buy shoes. He would go to these releases and He's like, hey, Chris, you got to do this. Man, I'm making so much money doing this. And I was like, okay, let me do this. And
I went with them and I bought these shoes. I remember there were these Sinco de Mayo nikes. They had the Mexican flag on the side.
Okay, it's very specific.
He's like, you get this, man, you're gonna be able to flip this. I was like, great, long story short, I did not make any money.
You didn't make any money on for Sinkle the Myo sneakers.
No, I did not. And I think ever since then, I've had trust issues with people giving me random advice through text messages. But yeah, no, it's like, I don't know. I think for me, you really got to understand something Like I'm sure he knew what he was doing and he could flip those shoes and be great. I was sure some of these people I've spent hours studying these these stocks, and they have good data to back up their decisions. But I don't. And I think that's the
part that's it's to be cautious. Was like, if you don't feel comfortable, don't just jump into this just because somebody else feels comfortable doing this.
Yeah, one hundred per I mean for me, for you, it was single to MYO sneakers. For me, it was beatie babies. Oh man, Yeah, I'm still waiting for my millions aunties and friends at school who told me to get all of them and we would like spend money,
we would protect them at all costs. I think I put one in the time capsule, like you know, I was thirteen when y uk came along, or didn't come along rather, And yeah, I buried my millennium beanie baby, thinking wow, I'm really just like burying my nest egg right now. I can dig this up in the after and cash it out of the bank. Yeah.
No, my mom has a garage full of beanie babies still in their protective cases.
Oh no she has. Oh that's so funny. Well, you know better hope, and she's going to hang on to my bet they're.
Not going anywhere. I mean, hey, like Pokemon cards for some reason gone wild, Maybe beanie babies will circle back around. Dude.
My husband was just like, he just went home to his parents to go try and dig up his whole Pokemon cards. He couldn't find them. He was so mad, I don't about Pokemon cards.
I did the same thing. I called my dad. I was like, hey, are those Pokemon cars still in the garage, because I wouldn't need those. He could not find them. They were nowhere to be found. I was very disappointed.
But the beanie babies were okay, yeah babies.
No, they're still on their shelf. They've been on the same shelf for I think ten years, just sitting there in their nice clearcases.
Oh lord, all right, well that's really funny. Okay, so my break is going to be it's gonna be a big one. I'm gonna try it to go on too long. But as I said, I'm from the state of Georgia, which has a lot of great things going forward. You know, world of coke, black people thrive in Atlanta. It's wonderful. We saved the Senate this year with John Osoff and Rafael Warnocks win and the Senate race. You know, we also saved the election. If you guys don't remember black women and Lena did, we did that.
Thank you.
I'm like taking credit. I don't even live there, and I don't vote in Georgia anymore anyway. But Georgia still has a lot of craziness happening, and I couldn't believe this headline, but it's something that I wanted to talk about because it's just showing how important local elections are beyond the presidential election. And I will continue harping on this, y'all because look at the Shenanigans. My state is up
to my God. So the Georgia Education Board has passed a resolution just a few days ago to limit the ability of teachers in schools where they educate children who will go out into the world in the future and be citizens in this country, limit them from talking about race and the history of racism in this country. Like that's the thing that the Board of Education could do. And the governor a Brian Kemp, who by the way, stole the election from Stacy Abrams a couple of years ago.
That's Stacy Abram's whole you know, launch into this Fair Fight Action nonprofit that she's built to expand voting rights and voting access across the country, but especially in Georgia. Brian Kemp was one of the reasons why, and he himself was the one urging the Board of Education to take quote immediate steps to ensure that critical race theory and its dangerous ideology do not take root in our
state standards and curriculum, and it passed. So this is I'm just like, oh, I mean, I remember in school talking about like people getting really fired up about Georgia state flag because it had the Confederate emblement it and they were going to change it. I remember that being being really confused by how intensely debated that was in class and stuff. And I was in class when we were reading Huckleberry finn In. One of my white female classmates asked, why can't we say the N word? And
she said the N word? Like, what's wrong with it? They say it in the book? Why can't we say it? So, as a kid who used to be one of the only ones in her class, I can't. I can't conceive that we could be going backwards like this. It's really scary to me, and I just want to raise awareness of this thing that's happening in Georgia, and I hope. I don't know if there's a way to to vote this away or to undo it, but it's scary that so simply and easily you can deny children who are
supposed to be educated. This discussion is about this very important, very bloody, very tragic, you know, chapter or book in our nation's history that is still impacting them today. It just it like boggles my mind that this is even happening.
I don't understand it. I saw the same article, and I mean, it's not like there are they currently were teaching like in depth history of what was really happening in America over the years. I remember, there's so many things I didn't learn about until I was in college or or you just learned about on my own, including like the Tulsa massacre, Like that was something that people in Oklahoma don't even know about that because they weren't
taught about it in school. And it's like to then even say we can't even mention the factual history and the discrimination that's occurred in the state and in the country. It's it really makes you think, like why, why is that even possible to do something like that.
Yeah. Absolutely, I will give a shout out to a teacher named Tracy Penley. She was named the state Teacher of the Year, and she unfortunately doesn't have a vote on the on the board. Despite being state Teacher of the year, but she also spoke out against it and says to say that we're not a racist state flies in the face of all the research that I've been
taught and that I've looked at. And it's true. I mean, racism is alive and well in Georgia, despite how there are so many is an amazing it can be an amazing place to live, and I I'm proud to be up and raised there. But until we can't become a better state or better country, until we're willing to acknowledge these flaws in ourselves, and racism is very much alive
and well in Georgia. I don't know what the breakdown is, but I can guarantee you Georgian's made up a fair few number of state rioters at the capitol back in January. And beyond that, I'm just a person who knows there's freezes people in my home state. And as a mom, like, I'm already like my son that are get ready, I'm going to be investigating all of his textbooks. I'm going to be like, where's the chapter on slavery? What do
they talk about? You know, what are their references? And I think it's really important as parents today to just be woke about, really engaged with what our children are being taught in school so that we can listen at the end of the day. If it's definitely easy for obviously boards of education capacities to source of resolutions, but it's also easy to take your kids to the library. It's also easy to talk about things at the dinner table that maybe aren't maybe when I was growing up,
weren't considered polite conversation. But we've got to educate ourselves and make sure our kids are educated. And thankfully there's a million different ways to get that education. And it's still really troubling, but I'm at least heartened by the fact that, you know, you have some schools, on the other hand, who are teaching critical race theory and teaching sixteen nineteen project by Nicole Hannah Jones from The New
York Times, Like, so there's education out there. We just have to be really, you know, on top of it and just make sure that kids are getting a very like, realistic and honest, factual telling of our country's history, good and bad.
Yeah, exactly, I mean, and I mean this this goes back to your point of saying how important these local elections are because these people making the decisions they really want to keep their jobs. They really want to keep those positions. And if they're pressed, and if the people are vocal about their like, their displeasure with what they're doing, the decision they're making, you can vote them out or you can put the pressure in them to make different decisions.
But if they feel comfortable like they're never going to get pushed out, then they'll continue to make these horrible decisions.
Yeah. Absolutely, And you can get so mad at an article, but you know where were you there at the polls when you had a chance to vote. So all right, well, that was definitely a heavy note to end on Chris that I had to do what I had to do it. But listen, this has been such a pleasure having you joined the show. I'm so glad that you're out there doing what you're doing. I hope Popcorn Finance, you guys got to go check it out, subscribe or sorry you follow it now on Apple.
Podcast and they have changed the language everything yet it's following this.
Follow popcorn Finance, leave a review, go find Chris. He's on all the socials at popcorn Finance. And then also check out his other show, This is Awkward. Who is your co host?
It's Allison, Alison Baggerley.
Alison Baggerley, awesome. Thank you, Chris. Any last words for the BA.
Fan, I want to say, thank you so much for having me. Mandy was greggin and talked with you on here, and I just I appreciate you just letting me join you here while Tiffany's off for a little bit of a break. But it's been so great talking with you in all of your audience here.
Thank you. You made it less scary for me to be without Tiffany for the first time ever. I feel so crazy to do it without her, but this was great. Thank you, Chris.
Oh, thank you so much. It's a great talking with you.