Ba fam, we have another how to throw back for you, of course we do. We're looking back at some of our favorite episodes from days past for memorable guests, too unforgettable moments. There's still so much to learn from the b A Vault. Take a listen, willya.
Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're black, We're brown.
Ambition ambition, ambition, ambition, ambition.
Hey mannger, how are you good?
Morning in there? How are you good?
We have some extra black in black and black. I'm brown ambition today, I mean.
Quaudruple, the chocolate today, Quaudruple, the Yes. I'm so excited to have these guests on, y'all. Yeah, but these are old friends of yours. I feel like, but this is my first time meaning then, but it's yeah.
I know.
Well, honestly, if you are listening, I can almost guarantee that you know.
Duvault and condide Elis. They'ven millennial married couple.
First of all, they're both I feel like it's not fair for the gene pool that both they are beautiful and both married somebody ugly, so that way we can spread the well.
But no, they were like, no, we're gonna.
Keep it on the.
Kids are absolutely beautiful.
They have a podcast themselves called dead Ass with K and D that have been on several times, and they have a new book called We Over Me, The Counterintuitive Approach to Getting Everything you Want from your Relationship, and as of last week, they are New York Times best selling authors.
Welcome to the club. It's cute over here.
Thank you.
We can finally join you in some aspects.
Whatever.
No, I just I'm just like really proud of you. I'm just so excited for you to be on here with us.
Yes, thank you, so andy.
Well, you know you don't know them any question.
In person, but of course I know y'all like, of course I listened to dead Ass and wait, remind me, y'all got your start with a YouTube channel, right.
Actually we started with Instagram Instagram stology.
So for the people who haven't had the pleasure of meeting the LSS yet, tell us a little bit about how you got your start and how you came to the point where you were like, let's put this into a book. Our marriage, our relationship. These skills are so magic. Everyone needs to know these.
Well. The funny thing is we if you read the book, you realize that We're not even talking about how magical skills are.
We talked about how messed up we were.
We were. We kind of figured things out that work for us. But it actually started on social media. As many people know, Kadeen is a host of TV hosts and I'm an actor and since the first day we met in college and we talked about what our dreams were. Our dreams were to be in front of the camera. Fast forward about ten years. I had retired from the
NFL and I was doing on auditions. I had booked a bunch of national commercials and Kadeen was doing some hosting and I was on Power, which is my third time on prime time television.
And I was with my son, Jackson at the time.
Who was I think four, and he said, I come on TV and we're all excited. My family's watching, and he goes, Daddy, you always have on that outfit when you were on TV. And I had on an orange jumpsuit because that was my third time in the criminal on television, and it hurt because I was like, I was like, man, like here I am perpetuating the same stereotypes that I'm trying to eliminate with all of the
work I do. I had a non for profit organization in Brooklyn who are helping young men get into college. So the very next day I had an audition for Blue Bloods and I'm going the audition and there are two lines. There's a line for a turn in a doctor and there's a line for inmate one and two. Of course, I'm in there to audition for inmate one and two. And I look on the line and there's nothing but black and brown man. So then I asked a question. I'm like, this is a co starring role.
I said, maybe if I just asked to let me go into the other line. So why can audition as an attorney or a doctor? And the lady was just like, no, you know, we have specific audition times for specific people. On that line, we're all white and Asian men. And I walked out and Kading was like, man, that was a fast audition. And I was just like, I didn't do it. I'm not I can't do this anymore. And she was like duvow. She just walked out of the audition.
I said, I can't continue to perpetuate the same stereotype. So she was like, well, what's your plan? I said, Instagram has just instituted fifteen second videos. I'm going to write little fifteen second like scenes for you and I and we're going to map it out and have our own little social sitcom called the Elysis.
And I was like, Okay, why do you want to do that?
Just think about it. If we can show people that the black family exists, because at the time, it was just me her and Jackson, and we can show them what our love looked like, and it's just a regular black family from Brooklyn, just grinding to make it through gentrification. And we had so many things that we could argue and debate about because we were coming from a man's standpoint and a woman's standpoint, and we were using relationships as our basis. And she was like, all right, if
you see it, I'm with it. Started to do these little skits. Then Instagram turned into sixty second videos and I was like, wow, I got sixty second instead of fact,
let's go. It started to blow up, and as it started to blow up, the comment section started to be you know, men and women starting to debate, like I understand the vous perspective, I understand these perspective, and then that transitioned into the podcast, and then the podcast transitioned into the YouTube series that Elisis where we did fifteen minute videos, which was a sitcom of our family.
And then the next natural step was a book where we can actually write down all our thoughts and.
Tell our story, which we called the Brooklyn Love Story and its totality without being shortened by you know, Twitter limits or small Instagram limits. So it just transitioned into a book and we wanted to tell our story and our narrative, our way.
Did you see this? So the one I there was one.
That was like you guys went viral for it was like this really cute picture, like or maybe a series of pictures. I remember, Yeah, so that picture went viral. But then the I didn't realize now the vall that it was you. But it was this hilarious skit, Mandy. I don't know if you ever saw it that, Like Kadeen was like not there and the vall had to like take the kids like grocery shopping or something, and he was like, how your mother gets you out of
the house, your pants, your paint again. It was huh freaking I mean the way I watched that like a hundred times to watch like this. Dad struggle with like taking the kids outside the house taked like he would always be like, it would take you so long to get the kids ready, and when he had to do it himself, he could not believe that somehow she managed to do all of this, and.
He was like, I'm tired. I'm not to go back. If they hadn't even gone food shoping the world were you supposed to be going? But that was the.
Skit that like put me on to be like, wow, like, you know, I love that that it was real and you know that this is what it looks like that sometimes, you know, moms make these miracles happen. They make them seem so effortless that like Dad's like, it can't be that hard until it's time for you to do right.
Yeah, he definitely understood after that, I get it.
How many kids do you all have today?
So we have four total now our youngest year and about fifteen months now, and Jackson, the oldest is eleven to be twelve. And then we have six.
Wow, yeah, yeah, I think of it. I have one and a half. Yes, I have a three year old and I have a I have another one on the way in a couple of months, thank you so much. Yeah, And honestly, I'm like, oh, sorry, what'd you say?
I said, we won't be adding anyone to anything over here.
I mean, I'm one of four, so I'm like, you know, part of me is like, I mean, I was number three, so I'm not trying to go all the way to four. I'm like, maybe the third we got you, but no, I'm my My husband and I are relationship. It's and plus the pandemic and you guys have you know, lived through that as a couple as well. I mean, how do y'all see the dynamic of your marriage sort of changing from one to two to three to four kids? Now?
I feel like after what after after three?
I was after two, after two? Whatever.
Yeah, it's just like add another one, add another one, another one.
They'll figure it out.
We kind of like in the same direction after a while, and your hope for the best.
You know.
The nice thing we have, the age difference that we have is that Jackson's now almost twelve. He's literally conducting himself.
Like a grown man.
It's insane to see how responsible and how mature he is. And we're both the oldest of three and we can see a lot of those similar qualities in him where we're like, oh, he's definitely a leader, he's a nurturer. So it's nice sometimes to kind of be like, hey, look out for your brother. So since we travel a lot for work, you know a lot of times we have parent guilt leaving because we're like, oh my god, we I feel again. And you know, Jackson literally like
holds it down. It's so funny. We was having a conversation with Zaval and I I'm like, you know, text the driver and let him know that we don't need him anymore. He has to come later to pick up someone else. And Jackson's like literally over here like texting between us the driver. I got you to worry about it.
We couldn't text because it didn't have an Apple phone, so we were like that we need somebody to get contact, and we hit our eleven year old send him the number, and then he sends us the screenshot that he sent the driver a your black My dad said, don't worry about coming. But it's funny how he's so on it.
And I mean he's got like a head like an ear piece on lord grown up. While he's changing a diaper background.
Like making grilled cheese. It's so funny, but it's really dope to watch.
When you had that idea to start Instagram videos like financially, I mean, what was the conversation, like, you know, I'm going to stop taking on these roles, which I know we're not the best, and obviously we're super you know you're a pigeonholed, which is awful, but as a couple, how did y'all handle that? Financially? We have so many listeners who are constantly asking us right to like, how do y'all manage your finances and like how do you
you know, get on the same page. And it's one thing to manage it when you're both got like nine to five jobs. It's another thing when one of y'all is like, I'm going to leap off this cliff. You don't, let's go.
Oh for sure.
One thing that I knew that we could not be was no starving artists family. That's the fact that she wanted to be an actor. That's amazing. I'm go go about it, but how are you going to make this happen financially? Because at that point, what year was it? We moved the NFL, you retired, and then we moved back to New York and Brooklyn, and that's when we
kind of had to start over again. So our story's a little interesting because it went from being broken college to the valut getting money in the NFL, to us losing everything in the recession back in two thousand and eight, and then having to rebuild again.
And the biggest thing is I've always had plans, and I've always included Kadeen in my plans. On our very first date, Kadeen said to me, what do you want to do with your life? We were eighteen years old, sitting in my dorm room, my very first date, and Martin was on television and I said I want to do that and she was like, what's that? And I said, I'm going to act. And this is the moment, realistically, when I knew I had a partner or someone different.
She didn't laugh, she didn't get how are you going to da da da? She said, Okay, how are we going to get there? And it was the how are we going to get there? To me?
That was kind of interest even like wow. First of all, she didn't laugh.
Second of all, she included herself in my dream, which made me in that moment, feel like she believes in my dream as well, which made me feel good. So then I told her, I said, well, if I make it to the NFL and I make a practice squad, I can make a hundred This is at eighteen. Now, I said, I can make one hundred thousand dollars in
four months. We can put a down payment in the Brownstone in Brooklyn, we can run out the upstairs two floors, we can live in the basement part, and we could We don't have to be starving artists because the rent will cover the mortgage.
And she was like, wow, eighteen at eighteen, and I was like, what.
You had a good one. I was not talking about down payments at eighteen.
But the funny thing is that's the way my brain always worked. So as I got to the NFL, of course I bought property, I did all the right things. The recession hits and I get cut in the same three months. Like the recession hit that summer of two thousand and eight, I get cut in September two thousand and eight. So then for the next four months we were trying to figure out which this income then come in because I had bought multiple properties, and now I have no income coming in.
Her full part about that, too, is just like we did all of the right things, Like he's so dealing to like his business acumen and his financial acumen was so far beyond anything I had experienced, so I knew he was doing the right things. I was like, he's not throwing bands in the strip club. I mean, you know, he's out. We were doing all the right things with his money, and then here we are back to one.
So when I decided to retire, I told kay, I said, listen, give me some time. I will get us back to where we were when I was playing board. And this is where the partnership comes in. And we worried about this in the book, I said to Kadeen, I'm cut. We don't have insurance. All I need is for someone to have insurance. You're pregnant, so to make sure that
we can cover the baby. Stuff like that. Kadeen took off her engagement ring and put it in her jewelry box, got on that B forty four bus and went to the mall and said, I need a job. And her biggest focus was getting a full time job so that we can get insurance. So my answer to that question was, anytime there was a financial issue you I never hit it. We talked about how we were going to get ourselves
out of that financial situation together. She was never to know, too stuck up to pull up our bootstraps and say I'm gonna go work. I worked as a substitute teacher. I worked as a color commentary on MG varsity. I did personal training. There was no job that was beneath me in order to provide for my family, and my wife felt the same way. So during those times, we just worked harder. We did multiple jobs, multiple tasks, until we got to the point where we could say, you
know what, I want autonomy over my time. Now I'm going to quit this aspect and just focus on this. And Instagram was able to provide that for us when the brand partnership deals started to come up.
So what are the conversations like now about money? Now that like you're off the struggle bus, you know, and you're like, so I'm curious, like where are you? So it's like, you know, in the beginning, like so many new entrepreneurs, there's this struggle and then there's a space where it's like I'm kind of okay, and then there's a space where it's like, no, I'm solidly okay.
And then hopefully.
There's a space where it's like I'm beyond okay, doing really well.
So where are you in that space? And then how have the conversation shifted?
Well, right now, we're beyond okay. We're doing extremely role. I'd like to say. We live in abundance. And the first thing we do is we have a fiduciary responsibility to pay forward. You know, I feel like no one should live in abundance without being a gift to other people, because this is a gift to well. So that's the first thing. The second thing is all about about wealth building. Now, how can we prepare our children to be in this
space regardless of what happens to them in life. It doesn't matter if I mean, of course we want through the graduate in high school and go to college or learn the trade or do something. But I want to be able to have my children live freely on this planet.
And that's what the goal is.
Now. What things can be put in place to make sure our children okay?
And it's funny Tiffany and Mandy, because it did out for a long time has to school me on the financial world and how things work. I was not good with money, and not to say that I was a frivolist spend or, but for example, Deval gave me or put me on his credit card a little bit after.
What was it the NFL this two thousand and six, I was, I was a working the NFL, and I was trying to help with.
Build a credit, right because at this point my parents hadn't really explained anything to me about credit or anything. So he added me onto his credit card. So I'm thinking, oh, I got like money for sad and I could just pay it back at my leisure. And I didn't realize that at the time I, you know, put the card. I think it was like fifteen thousands, was like the with the max and I was just making like small payments like oh twenty five thousand a month, you know, not knowing.
Anything about adults.
Right.
So there's that things that we were in being broken and going back to Brooklyn having to rebuild. Even in the space that we're in now, I still sometimes move with caution, like I don't want to buy this, or
what's the budget for that? And that was like my, my, my, look at the person that just seems to be like I don't know if you guys have seen this, like a video going around a viral where someone has their Apple parent They're like charging everything everywhere, And I just can't get used to that now because I'm still living in this sense of fear sometimes like what if it all gets snatched away?
You know.
But Devell has helped kind of ease that anxiety in meet and then you know, like, Okay, now we have certain things allotted, like the children will be okay, we will be okay, like these people and things that we have in place will make it so that we're okay,
Like you don't have to live like that. But also to us feel like it's a more stressful environment like that whole more money, more problem situation, because now we are technically employing a large group of people to work for us, to help us create the content that we have. So now I'm thinking about how many people's livelihoods we're responsible for, and that's a different kind of pressure when you think about it, it's like it's not just about us.
It's trying to make sure that our people around us are also staying aflow so that's an added layer of stress. Like back in November, Devell had this breakdown unlike anything I've seen before. I know he doesn't mind sharing.
It because he's spoken about it.
But he was filming his I think it was sixties and insists or Ta tema and I'm pretty much passed out on set and when I spoke to him and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm a Jamaica at a wedding and I'm like, you know, what's going on? And He's just like, oh, I'm you know, dehydrated, I'm really stressed out and whatnot. And I said to him without like, if you don't feel well this weekend, maybe you can't make it to work on Monday, Like they're going to
have to understand your health comes first. And he literally was like no, Like I have to go to work because I have to make this money, because I have people I have to pay. And that was the main reason why he couldn't even take the time to get one hundred percent back to himself health wise, because he had the stress of thinking about how many people we had that were depending on us. That's another level of stress that you deal with in the financial space.
No yeah, I mean tivitany And you you understand this. When you become your own company, you you sort of become an economy for so many people. And when you become that economy, it only works as you work. And when you've when you've been trusted people, you put it on them like, hey, I need you to help me,
help me make this happen. But also they've n trusted you, so it's like now they put their livelihoods and their dreams and stuff in your pretty much in your lap and say, hey, as long as you work, I'm here to help facilitate that. But during that time, I didn't realize how much financially, how much pressure that would be
on us financially. And we're at that point now, like I said, when we live in abundance and we always want to pay forward and help people, but it is like a huge responsibility to make sure that we always bring in enough to make sure that we can put it back out there into me.
Can I give you some advice and feedback?
Of course you can, because you already know.
How well I was saying. I was there. Look, Confinia was like growl, let me get my notebook. This is for so this is.
That's a stage in entrepreneurship that you know, many of us reach, especially if we are the face of our brand. Like Mandy has her own business. She teaches career and negotiating, especially the women. And so in the beginning, yes, you are the face. First, it's just you, you know, because you're like, I ain't got money to pay nobody, So you do all the things. And then if your fortunate business grows, you bring on help and then they're working side by side. And then you get to a point
where it's like you literally for many people. You have to work in order to provide for not just your family, but your business family. And that's where it gets tricky because same I had, like my blood pressure was through the roof. I mean it was to the point where was like you been have a heart attack, tiphany because.
You can't be No. One sixty one seventy over one hundred. I mean it was.
I stopped taking my blood pressure like I didn't have I wasn't on medication, but the doctor was like, if you come back with this blood pressure like this again, I'm gonna put you on medication. I gained like thirty pounds the level I was so stressed. I didn't know what it felt like not to be stressed. You know. I used to tell myself I'm a morning person because I woke up every morning at four or five am. Until I realized I'm not necessarily a morning person. It
was anxiety. I could not sleep, even in my dreams. I was working in my dream I remember, literally in my dreams on a computer.
Can you imagine?
But you know so, and it doesn't It shouldn't have to take tragedy. But I knew, like a year or so before my husband passed away, I knew that something had to shift because I was declining and I was trying to make these small little shifts and small little shifts, and it.
Wasn't really enough.
And it wasn't until Jarrell passed away that I realized I have to make a huge, sweeping change because you gotta choose, Tiffany, You're either going to grieve over your health or grieve over your husband, because I just didn't have the capacity to do both. And so I said, I need to get my health together. And one of the ways is I had to revamp the way I
did business that it doesn't like now. The way the business runs largely it doesn't have to fully depend on me hitting the track, because at one point it was like yo if because I could not work for six months after he passed away, and I saw like a whole new side of people who I thought were down for whatever when I could no longer dance, you know, dance to dance to make sure everybody ate, And so slowly but surely I started to shift my business.
I had to reduce some staff.
You know, it wasn't pleasant, but I had to and to shift the way, like I pivoted from the money has to come from Tiffany.
Being there to what are other ways?
So I'm in the budget. THEESE is in the business of community and content. That's what I told my team, So how do we monetize the community? How do we monetize the content where it doesn't depend on me going out to speak?
So even now we.
Are in the middle of like this huge shift and pivot because right now it used to be one hundred percent Tiffany. Now it's about seventy sixty seventy percent Tiffany. By the end of the year, my am is fifty percent by next year thirty percent. But it had to be intentional or you will work yourself to the ground.
So the key in all things when it comes to business in particular, I've been talking to a lot of people this week, is that I call it, you want to start to pre pivot, meaning you should be able to end your business, look into the future and say this is where this is headed, sick, overwhelmed overwork that so before we get there three years from now, what do I need to do now? Because you will have to pivot because your body is going to force you. But if I can pre pivot, do it willingly. I
can take my time and I can do so. And although it's hard and not everyone's going to be happy about it, but I can do so.
So in three years, when the.
Event happens or whatever, then I've already done the work or or the foundation or whatever it is that I'm needing to do. And so that's just for all business owners. For YouTube Mandy, is that ideally, what you hope is that you bake this in to your business model, that you don't go so far.
That it's just like you you you you you, And if you haven't.
You know, you start you have to ask yourself like, well, how do I want what am I in the business of, How do I want my business to make money outside of me? What do I need to start doing to start to integrate that into the business now, because I promise you, like a reckoning is coming if you don't, because if you pass that on set, the body keeps
the score. It's like, I don't care what you're talking about that you find I say, you're not lay down, you know, and so like I don't want that for anyone listening, And so yeah, I just it's certainly we could talk offline about like some ideas, like you know, cause I literally just meeting with my friend love yesterday, my friend Bosmos, like can't we talk? Everyone is just like can we talk? Because I'm the queen of the pre pivot, Like, let me get ahead of this thing
before it takes me out. Wait, the conversation is getting so juicy, but we got to take a break pay mills, you know. So we will be right back with Kadeen and Duval stay put and we're back in black.
Yeah, I mean as a couple, like I listen, I mean we were at my husband and I were at a friend's friend a couple of friends. How yesterday and they were making pizzas, and like, it's really hard to not compare yourself to other couples, right, I don't know. For me, anyway, I try not to. I've gotten there
about not comparing my son to other kids. But I'm just like, Wow, they've been making these pizzas and I haven't heard either of them like snap or like, you know, like there's enough space in the kitchen for them, Like what's wrong with us? But can y'all talk about like I mean, and I'm sure in the book you know you talk about this too, how there are imperfect not imperfections, but just the reality of being you know, too strong,
independent minded people in a relationship. Have there been moments where like one of y'all have wanted to go one way and the other the other direction and you were just like doing this tug of war and how you maybe navigated that?
And I think either of us are so strong in our thoughts that we're not willing to bend. It's really like there's no power struggle here, nor is there uh like forcing of one to be the leader and be
right in that moment. I feel like whoever is better equipped in a certain moment to do whatever the task is, we do it, and if we feel strongly about something, we voice that and then we find a way to work around it because usually for the most part, I feel like we usually land on the space for devias, Like kadein, I really don't care about this particular thing. If you hear that much about it, go ahead and
make a decision. And I'm un rock with you. I think we both respect each other not to know that we're never going to lead each other too far straight and if we see it happen and we know how to read each other back in. But have you really struggled with anything much?
No, I think I think part of this kind of goes back to what Tiffany was saying. But I love the pre pivot. So I'm good at foreseeing when things I'm like something something ain't like. That's why last year to me was an anomaly. But when it comes to us making decisions, there's no wrong decision. So if Kadeen is strong minded about something, and say, for example, it goes in the direction that I don't foresee it being being positive successful, I'm like, babe, how about we try
this a week? We make move this way? Like I don't. It's no blame game. It doesn't matter who made the decision. This is the decision we're going because one of us is strong minded about it, and it works out perfectly, bawdly celebrated. If it don't, let's pivot before it gets
too bad and move on. And I think that type of idea, that there's no wrong decision or no bad decision, allows us to not argue about what we're going to do, because most of those arguments tend to be, well, you made the mistake, you made the decision if we would have did it my way, and in my mind, there is no my way.
You know, we've been doing this together since eighteen, and.
When I say together, I mean right now maybe de vou season because I'm on television and I'm the.
One who came up with Instagram and all this other stuff.
But there was a point when it was Kadeen season and I had to just be the person to just rock with her. I was an All American in college and she needed help with her white balance filming for her while she was working for New twelve. I got the camera on my shoulder, I got the pro out, and I'm I'm trying to do this because I have to play my part in her dream as well. So since we've been used to for twenty years, always playing our role in the other person's ideas of success, it's like,
all right, well, what do you want to do? How are we going to do it together?
And that's essentially how we came up with the title of the book. I'm just about to say dating over me, camera on his shoulder.
Okay, you are aging us, my good man, biges.
Okay, so we over me.
If anyone's listening, whether they're a single, partner and married or whatever, what do you hope like, what's like one of some key lessons that you hope people take away, you know, for their own lives, whether they're partners or not.
Well, the first thing is with we over me, we hope that folks know that this is not like a relationship how to book. I know it kind of gets put under those categories, but we really didn't want it to be a book that people went to thinking like we're going to give them some outline of what made the perfect marriage or the best relationship. Because we don't
profess to have all the answers. What we're hoping to do in the book is to just share a little bit about our love story, our journey, because a lot of times people will see us and then be like, oh my god, kadin what was your prayer, Devo? What was your prayer? How did I get this? Devo? How do I get Kadeen? And it's like, Kadina de value. See today is twenty years in the making. We needn't just wake up like this.
You're not reminding myself that. I'm like, mm hm, they said twenty years.
It's been less than how long how long you been with your husband.
About town twenty twelve? Like eleven years together and married five.
So I'll make you some insight real quick to the book.
Okay, our first.
Five years of marriage was terrible, like stole back.
After and you didn't have to deal with the pandemic.
There was no pandemic and this was NFL, so it was like everything was bliss free, free college education, everything. And we had been together eight years before them. So we're telling you is that for the first thirteen years of our friendship slash courtship slash marriage, we were at each other not knowing how to do this thing. And we like to tell people that because people will get into a relationship and after six months like, ah, I
shouldn't be this hard. We supposed to be blissed, and it's like thirteen years it took for us to be like, wait a minute, I got to change my mindset if I want to be successful moving forward. And for Kadinni, we want people to understand that it's about choices, right. The first thing we say in the book is that you don't have to stay where you're not wanted or where you don't.
Want to be, and it's okay to move forward.
The biggest thing is we work because I make a choice to be here and she makes a choice to be here. The obligation to be there because of a title or because of children will put you in a trap where you feel like your back's against the wall. Creates more issues than anything else. The first step that
I want to say to anybody is choose yourself. Make that choice to be like you I want to be in this situation, whether it's monogamous, polygamists, like, there's so many different lifestyles, choose whicheveryone works for you for us, monogamy works for somebody else, it may not work and It's okay to choose what you like, and once you make that choice, be ready to be a service to whoever you're in a relationship with.
And that's really what we want people to understand.
Make a choice to choose yourself, and if you want to be in a relationship, be of service to that person. Don't go to that relationship thinking this person better check all these boxes that I've created for this super imaginary person. And the first box they don't check, I'm out of here. How can you be a.
Service to someone else in a relationship? That's what we really want, right.
That's why the subtitle is the counter intuitive approach to getting everything you want out of your relationship, because, like Deva said, typically you think about getting into a relationship and things, think about what you can gain from a person, right, this person has to have all these things in order for us to be relationship. Where our approach, which we've learned over the years that makes more sense and leaves us feeling like things are reciprocated, is where we really
tap into how we can be of service. So in the mornings, for example, I've learned to you know, wake up, you know, think about my day, look over deval and be like, Hey, you know, what can I do today to make your day that much brighter? How can I alleviate something off of your plate so that your stress
level is a little bit reduced today? And just by doing that alone, I've realized that, Wow, like free something up for him in turn, let him know that I care a b makes to stay that much lighter, and then c He's probably more inclined to say, damn, Kay really thought about me this morning. What can I do to reciprocate that?
Well? Can you tell him how we got there? Because it wasn't like an epishany loving.
This is like Michelle Obama when she came out talking about ten years. I forget if it was the first ten years or there was a ten year period of her in Barock's marriage. It's so important and I wonder if this is like something to note to because I mean black life. You know hashtag black love. There's now a series called black Love, And have you guys been on that? You should be on that?
See we're on that.
We want season two?
Oh amazing. Okay, I'm like the because y'all are like the Randall and Beth in real life from just like real life Randal and Beth, but even they had their challenges. And I feel like it's important because yes, we need more imagery of black love and like beautiful reciprocated relationships and full and complete relationships. We just don't to your point about you know, Hollywood and entertainment, we don't really
see that so often. At the same time, I don't know if we do ourselves a disservice if we don't also show the struggle and show the work you know that goes into that. So it's really great that you guys are sharing that. I'll stop now because I'm I'm being poured into so you can continue.
Yeah, I'm gone, How did you get? What was that? Five years in and then there was a switch, like what happened?
So there was a moment five years and this is twenty and sixteen. Twenty sixteen, Kadeina and I had already decided that we would you know, this year was going to be a year We're going to have another child because we almost lost Kadeen having Jackson. She had a cervical tear get a cervical teer. Having Jackson, she was bleeding out. She had have emergency surgery. I had made
a promise to God. I said, you know, if you get my wife through this, I would not have another child and I would cherish this woman and this child for the rest of my life. That was my promise to God. And I was just like, I just want my wife to be okay. And Kadeen made it through and I was like, I don't want any more kids. Five years later, Kadeen and I both decided like, you know what, if you feel comfortable, let's try to have another child. So in that moment that was That was
twenty fifteen. Actually we were trying to get pregnant and Kadeen wasn't getting pregnant, so we had both made it were like, hey, listen, we're getting older. We should be in the best shape of our life. You almost die having the first child. You have to be in better shape. We got to work out together, we got to eat better, we got to get more sleep. Like we had we had pretty much said to each other these promises that we were going to do to make sure this pregnancy
was was going to be better. And coming off of Christmas time, there was another financial issue. The American Express Bill was going up. Me and Kadeen had an argument about the American Express build walking to the gym the next day. This is the right after the American Express argument, and she was like, she's going to go work out.
I go to workout, I'm training clients, I'm doing everything.
At this point, Kadeen wasn't working full time because I had took on all that load so that she can relax. I'm getting ready to leave the gym. She still hadn't worked out. I snapped. Now we've talked about snapping. I snapped. You know what the problem is, You procrastinate too much every time I'm trying to get something done, and so it's like I gotta wait for you and wait for you and wait for you. I'm tired of waiting for you. You run up the American Express bill, You're not working anymore.
It's like it was just everything was just unloading, unloading, unloading. So now if you know my wife, my wife is a very passionate Jamaican invincention woman from Brooklyn, and she's coming back at me. We're going back and forth, and this is how bad and talk to you. We screaming at each other in the gym, in my office, screaming and cursing, screaming and curse, and I said, hell, you know what, I think we need to get a divorce.
And she's like, are you serious? Imod like, yes, because you're fing lazy right, this is I scream.
In my wife.
She goes, I'm not fing lazy, deval, I'm efing pregnant.
And I go, damn, you had a Trump card in your back pocket, trash.
Why don't you? I said, why don't you believe with that?
Like?
Why does it more satisfying that way?
Clearly because we were trying for this baby, Like what are we going to do to make it that much more special? And then I just couldn't hold it. In that moment, I was.
Like And in that moment, when I had egg on my face, I realized that, you know, I claim to be a provider and a protector because I made enough money to make sure my wife could be at home. If anybody got my wife face, I'm willing to do whatever. That's what I thought my version of providing and protecting. In that moment, I realized I wasn't providing and protecting anything.
I wasn't there emotionally, I wasn't there spiritually. How did I not realize that my wife was going through a physiological change that she couldn't work out because she was having more in sickness. And I said to myself, how am I going to be there to advocate for my wife in the opportunity that something happens to her again during her pregnancy.
If I'm not paying attention.
So I said to her in that moment, I said, Kadeen, from this point on, why you're pregnant, Whatever you say, I got you. The answer is going to be yes, I'm going to be of service to make sure we get through this. Because it hit me like a ton of bricks. I have to be aware of what my wife is going through in her entire body. I almost lost her once and here I am only focused on what I think I need to do as a man, that I'm not paying attention to the person that's most
important to me. And then through that pregnancy, our relationship change because I was so focused.
On being of service, being of service, being of service that Kadean started to reciprocate in a way that had never happened in our relations and shit, and then the light bulb paid me boom, why didn't I do this one she's not pregnant.
It was, you know, let me do this, let me do this. But then there was another shift, and this is important. Kadeenad got so used to me being in service because she had got pregnant and then got pregnant again, that it was always about Kadeen, about kadem about Kadema, and ifou always saying to Kadeen, I'm fine, I got it, and I wasn't okay. And during the pandemic December twenty twenty, we're getting ready to go into twenty twenty one.
I looked at Kadeena and I said, you know, it's been four years since we've had Cairo, and when you wake up in the morning, what's your first thing you think about. We have three kids now. She said, well, I gotta make sure the kids get ready. I gotta make sure I work out, I gotta make sure I do this. I gotta make sure there's a TV.
Dad. I said, do you realize that you mentioned everybody except me? And for the first time I was honest with her about how that made me feel. I didn't just sit back on it and get resentful. I didn't do what men typically do, which is I'll eat it I'll deal with you on my own. I'm not going to say nothing. She better figure it out. I didn't
do that. I told her exactly how it made me feel, and I told her what I wanted and what I needed, and I watched her though, wow, I'm so sorry, Like, I didn't realize that I always put you on the back burner because you always say you're okay. And I realized when I told her, like, how could I expect her to know that if I always say I'm fine, I'm good when I'm not. And in that moment, our relationship changed again. It went from me servicing her to
us always serving each other. And I got to be honest. There was a meme that I saw yesterday and it was a woman who said, when's the last time? It was like a bunch of this, when's the last time you said to your man, I'm proud of you, baby, I love you baby, thank you baby? Are you hungry? Baby? And I looked at all these things and I say, you know, my says those things to me a lot, but it wasn't happening until I told her I it made me feel And then she realized what I need
because I told her what I need. And I think that's when our relationship changed.
Yeah, for sure, because I just expected him to understand. You know, I'm like, I'm an adult, you're an adult. We have two point five three kids at this time. You know, we're another one to play. So I'm just just like, yo, we're all we're in the mud, like you know, do you and I? And I just expected the vow to just be okay because he always said
he was okay. And now I'm literally looking this man in his eyes, like, especially after his episode in November, I'm like, again, you're saying you're okay, and you're not okay. So we practiced that a lot more now, and I can see how this has been a big shift in our dynamic and our relationship, even as recently as like the past three four months, you know, because I had Dakod to our last son the year before that. So back into the thick of being pregnant.
And especially when you have a partner who is quite independent and how their own thing going on, you sometimes can feel like, wait, we're parallel, Like we're in you said the mud, we're in the mud together, but like this is your mud lane and this is my mud lane and it's like did you survive today? Yeap, did you survive? Yeah, good night, and like the team huddle,
like that connection the bridge and the mud. That's what we're working on, I think, because I mean not that it's bad, but it's just like what we need right now, I feel like, is just to do what we can
to just own what we have going on. And I think, yeah, I'm hoping that we could have a similar moment like that because to it matters, you know, it matters to have that time and to look into another person's eyes even if they are strong, and we are the strongest of the strong, right and remind them that them.
You are pregnant. Right, Kadean was pregnant. Kadeen was pregnant last year. Kadean didn't want to be nowhere near me or anybody in this house. Like what women have to understand? What women have to understand that like your body goes through physiological changes and you're not going to feel like yourself. And I wish there were more more educational resources for both men and women how to deal with pregnancy. Right because and this is Kadeena and I who just wrote
a book New York Times bestsellers. They must communicate great. While she was pregnant, I used to be like, yo, I have not You haven't hugged me or kissed me in three days. Do you realize you've been in that bedroom by yourself. And She's just like, I know, I just I just don't feel like being around people. But I miss you, and I'm just like I did it, babe, And I understand where you're coming from, and I'm just letting you know how it's making me feel.
But that was twenty years in the making getting to that point.
When she had those moments before, of course I felt bad, but I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to articulate it. So give yourself grace and give your husband grace and not knowing and understanding it's only been ten years. And I know to people it's south crazy. It's only been ten years. It should each other by ten years. No, like we take time to constantly, you know, readjust yourself to see what your partner is going through.
It takes time. And there's never a point in a marriage because I can tell you right now, as great as we think our marriage is now, five years from now, when it gets even better, We're going to talk about this time and say, can you believe that's how we communicate it then, like it's just that it's an ongoing conversation of trying to be better for each other. So give yourself grace and understand this. Whenever we do a live shows, I talk about pregnancy for women and postpartum
pregnancy because this is the truth. The most disciplined human beings in the world, and all of the armed forces, the Navy, Seals, the Army rangers, the Marine Corps, you know what, they train the hardest to deal with sleep deprivation. Can you imagine that the most disciplined people in the world have to train to deal with sleep deprivation? But we expect mothers and expecting mothers to know how to deal with this in real time with no train and balance being a new mom and a wife or a
girlfriend and a career and a house. It's damn there impossible. So you have to give yourself grace. And I think more men should be educated on giving women grace because I was the same imbecule that told my wife six months, six weeks after having our first child, you acting like you the first first woman to have baby, breastfeed the three babies.
You're still a lot of time.
This is this is why we tell.
You you're still just a real man inside. Okay, got it, got just a regular regular man.
I'm a regular degular man who doesn't know and understand.
Like that's why I like telling the stories because it took me four pregnancies to be like, you know, I wish I was a better part.
And it's probably because mothers do the same thing as like we're super people. We don't want to admit that we're hurting. We don't tell that story. It's become really hard for it. It's hard when and it's also hard to see your partner who you know, we met when I was twenty five. He was in his mid twenties two change. And I'm not physically the person I was even a year ago. I can't keep up when we're walking, I'm like, you know, and I, you know, running around
after a toddler and all that. But it's it's I can see him being like, Okay, she's different now and almost a little bit like fearful or anxious, like is this going to be forever? You know this? And and I feel like yeah, but that really resonates with me, and I hope he gets there too.
And I used to practice was what we call radical transparency, that if it comes up, it comes out yep, yo, no, because I just I was I was a terrible communicator and like he just was always like he was really good at saying how he felt, but he was also some of the hoods. So sometimes I'm like, not with that tone, sir girl, this is this is not three B.
In the projects, like what you know. I'm like, oh my god.
That radical transparency.
Yes.
So it was like, if it comes up, it comes out, yes, just rest.
But I learned.
I mean, I'm so much better at it now that if something is wrong, because I was the queen of holding it and then three months later because that times like from three months ago, why did you say something?
And then you build it.
It's like you're dragging it around, is gathering dust and dirt and debris, and then you throw it in their face and you're like you should have known. It's like, how could I have known that? You know, how could I have known that? And so now with everyone therapy has helped tremendously. I practiced radical transparency, which is if it comes up. You know, I would say ninety percent of the time it comes out, because if that's the lightest time you'll ever have, Like, hey.
Babe, you know when you said that thing that actually hurt my feelings?
Yep, you know, like or you know, I don't like when you say that when my friends are around, you know, and learning to like receive it without the initial because I'm very defensive. I have four sisters, so you know, we could scrap. I'm like, first of all, girl, you know, So I learned to be like receive it because what I'm really feeling is not it's not really anger, it's shame because I know I'm wrong. Instead of fighting toward that, it's like, okay, I could see that, okay, and I.
Get I get the I call it the post socialization debrief. I'm the chatty one in the relationship, so I i he can he get the way with a lot because he doesn't say that much, so I can get myself in trouble. And then after we hang out with other people, I'll get in the car and you get in the car and you have that moment and I'm just like, what did I say that?
You know, feelings.
Tell me, and he's like, good, I was so defensive, yes, but now I've just gotten better saying I really didn't mean to and it's just I'm like, damn it, why can't Why do I do this?
You know?
But you know I don't want to be that way, but it's yeah, but it's it's definitely helps to get over things. And I will say that's growth for us too, that he's even communicating that kind of stuff.
And creating a safe space that people can tell you about yourself, you know, and even maybe in the moment, like me and Gero after a walk came up with like signals if I was doing too much, you know, he would just be like like, oh my business, thank you.
It's like and wrapping it up.
So so you know that way because sometimes you know, you don't realize and I'm like, oh okay, you know, And so like creating these kind of like tools. We had like a safe word when we were if we were going to be in an argument when it went from helpful to hurtful, because you know, you've be like ooh child, let me care upt. And so our safe word was pineapples. So it'd be like and another thing he'd be like pineapples. I'm like, I'm sorry what the
rule of pineapples is? Like all speaking ceases. You go to your corner, I go to mind, you go to the man cave, I go see it wherever. And it's like you said, what now pine natles.
Which.
Like yes, yes, but it gave me a moment to relax and Lucans, you were about to say something really hurtful Tiffany to your teammate, y'all got the same jersey on.
If he lose, I lose.
And so pineapples was like a saving grace to the point where we got so good at it we were internally pineapples.
Ourselves because I'd be like in my head, I'd.
Be like Tiffany, pineapples to myself, pineapples, girl, you about to take it too far. And so but these are the things like like over time, you know that, like you just practice and you work on if you're wanting to go from like an okay marriage so good, yes, so great and exceptional you know every year, I mean to your point, like the first five years for us was like oof dating. It was a hot mess, and then we got better and better, and once we got
really good at communicating. It was like we had like such an awesome and even still he was still here, we were still growing. I was still like, oh this, I could do this even better because.
I work so much.
He is really the type to be like when I come home, I would love for my wife to be home and be like Daddy's home, you know, just a pause for a moment, cause I'd be like, okay, food's difference.
I didn't realize how much it me.
Him for me to pause, yeah and just come and greet him and how is your day? Twenty thirty minutes and I can get back to whatever. So like, learning those little nuances made all this. It's like there was nothing he wouldn't do because I made those you know, those those spaces for him and so and the thing, it.
Sounds clichative, but it's true, right, Like one thing we talk about in the book is you have to stop comparing yourself to other people's relationships, because the minute you try to tell and make your relationship to other people's expectations, you're gonna fail. Like you can't be the greatest version of somebody else. They're already being the greatest version of themselves.
And what works for you may not work for other people, So seeking validation from other people about what you should do and your relationship is also a recipe for failure. For example, Kadeen and I have been on social media and also on television talking about our life. Right of course, people have commentary I would never put up with that, I would never do this, I would never do that. Most people get defensive and be like, I'm just sharing,
how could you have these opinions about my marriage. I don't get offended about opinions about our marriage because people are entitled to have their opinions about what we do. But if it works for us, I'm not concerned about Taylor making my marriage to other people's opinions. For example, Tiffany just said she wants us Her husband wanted her to be like, hey, daddy's home. You know how many women would have been like, I ain't never calling a man daddy. No no, no, no, no no no, you don't have
to that's not your husband. I want to call on my husband daddy. That's what it is. It's the same thing for me. I talk about traveling. Kate wants to travel. We talked about our sex life. She loves to travel. We have better sex with we travel. You know how many guys like I ain't buying no plane ticket just to have sex with a woman who wants to be with her, don't you don't? Exactly, you don't have to. I'm not asking you to do that for your girl.
I'm telling you what works for us.
For us, it's like, we do what works for us. We're unapologetic about it. I have got some backglass because I said, listen, when I come home at night, I want my wife to some poom poom shorts and a crop top, and I want my food made so that I can be the best parader I can be. Of course, women will be like this, ain't the fifties. D da da da. I'm not telling you that you have to do that for your man. What I'm saying is this is what we work for us. She enjoys dressing up.
I enjoy looking at it. I enjoyed on her. All the stuff y'all saying y'all would never do is not going to change the fact that we do this for each other. So when we talk about that in the book, it's like, stop the whole couple's goals. People ask me all the time, who is your favorite couple goal of millennials, I don't have one. I want to be the best
version of the Violentkadeen. I could be like I don't look at anybody in this generation or even before and say I aspire because I don't want to fall short. Like there are certain things, for example, Barack may do for Michelle, and I know this for example, I know this for a fact. When we first got married, I used to look at couples and be like that he do that for his wife, and she gets excited about it. So I'm gonna do it for my life. And I would do it and can even just be looking at me.
I'm like, you know what your problem is. You weren't grateful, and they was excited, and she was just like, I didn't ask you to do none of this, and I was just like, what you mean to ask? I was being thoughtful when I did it. And then I realized, like, why am I Why am I going outward to find out what my wife wants? And why am I getting offended because my wife doesn't want what another woman wants? Why do I just ask my wife what she wants
and do my best to provide it. The more I started to look inward and right here and be like, baby, what you need, what you need, what you want. The easier it became, as opposed to guessing by looking at other people. So I just want people when they read the book and when they think about relationships, stop thinking about everybody else. Focus here, Just focus here on what you got and do your best to be that version for that person, because that's the person you chose. Well.
On that note, we really want to thank Kadeen and daval Ellis for coming on the show.
If you do not have it.
Already, we over me the counter intuitive approach to getting everything you want from your relationship. It is a New York Times bestseller, which is rare, rare.
Don't especially black.
People on to cover look at this black I wouldn't say, I would say more peanut butter.
Con that means they have to get traveled soon.
Listen, So where can they if they want to purchase this book? Where can they purchase it? And then where can they find y'all to continue the conversation?
For sure?
Well, the best place to get the book, we realized so far has been bookshop dot org because is a great way to support a local bookstore independent stores in your areas, so bookshop dot Org, Amazon, of course, Barns and Nobles. Wherever you get your books, you can find me. I'm Kadeen. I am on Instagram and I just started tak talking my big age y'all with me trying to figure it out, and then our podcast page dead. Ask the podcast on Instagram.
Listen, I am devout and I'm used to doing this for the podcast. If you're listening on Apple Music.
Channel too. Now you can subscribe to Patreon for more long content from us.
So okay, sharing.
A dope conversation.
Conversation all day, always good time.
And if we miss you, yo, mate, you used to be on the show all the time.
Not that bunch of lady again.
You know you've always been one of our highest rated at the shows.
Every every time you're on, people be like I got because you always drop so many gems and like people, especially black and brown people, need to understand how important financial security is.
And how they can gain access to it.
Like people just think I got to be an athlete and entertainer to make money and build wealth. No, you don't know, you don't typically has dropped so many gems on us that we've applied to our life and been like, oh, ship, you see that work. And I'm telling you, Tiffany, what you do is amazing. We appreciate you. Mandy, it's good to get to know you. I'm pretty sure we can
build our relationship and congratulations to you. I can tell you that you're an amazing woman and you want to be an even more amazing woman for your family and especially your husband, so keep working at it and hopefully he's doing the same on his end.
Listen, these hormones will make me start crying, so let me say I can feel the I can feel the prickles. Thank ya so much.
We hope that you love the show. Be a listeners.
You know we'd be having that best people on here, so go ahead and support we over me. You know if I condemed to all on social listen to the podcast that ass and we're going to see you next week. Yes, Kim, Hey, hey, ba fan, we're on YouTube. Thank you so much for watching. Please like this video and subscribe to the channel.
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