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We're black, We're brown. Ambition ambition, ambition, ambition, ambition.
Hey Mannger, how are you good morning?
I'm sure we have in there. How are you good?
We have some extra black in black and black. I'm brown ambition.
Today, I mean Claudruple the Chocolate today, Cuaudruple the Yes. I'm so excited to have these guests on, y'all. Yeah, these are old friends of yours. I feel like, but this is my first time meaning them. But it's yeah, I know.
Well, honestly, if you are listening, I can almost guarantee that you know Duvaul and conteen.
Elis. They've millennial married couple.
First of all, they're both I feel like it's not fair for the gene pool that both y' all beautiful and just want to both married somebody ugly so that way we can spread the well. But now they were like, no, we're gonna keep it on.
The kids are absolutely beautiful.
They have a podcast themselves called Dead Ass with K and D that have been on several times, and they have a new book called We Over Me, The Counterintuitive Approach to Getting Everything you want from your relationship.
And as of last week.
They are New York Times best selling authors.
Yes, welcome to the club.
It's cute over here.
Thank you, we can finally join you in some aspect of what.
No, I just I'm just like really proud of you. I'm just so excited for you to be on here with us. Yes, Andy, well you know you don't know them any question.
In person, but of course I know y'all like, of course I listen to dead ass and wait, remind me, y'all got your start of the YouTube channel, right.
Actually we started with Instagram, Instagram stology.
So for the people who haven't had the pleasure of meeting the LSS yet, tell us a little bit about how you got your start and how you came to the point where you were, like, let's put this into a book. Our marriage, our relationship. These skills are so magic. Everyone needs to know these.
Well. The funny thing is, if you read the book, you realize that we're not even talking about how magical our skills are. We talked about how messed up we were when we first got We kind of figured things out that work for us. But it actually started on social media. As many people know, Kadeen is a host of TV hosts and I'm an actor. And since the first day we met in college and we talked about what our dreams were. Our dreams were to be in
front of the camera. Fast forward about ten years. I had retired from the NFL and I was doing on auditions. I had booked a bunch of national commercials and Kadeen was doing some hosting and I was Power, which is my third time on prime time television. And I was with my son, Jackson at the time, who was I think four, and he said, I come on TV and we were all excited. My family's watching and he goes, Daddy, you always have on that outfit when you were on TV.
And I had on an orange jumpsuit because that was my third time criminal on television. And it hurt because I was like, I was like, man, like here I am perpetualating the same stereotypes that I'm trying to eliminate with all of the work I do. I had a non for profit organization in Brooklyn who are helping young men get into college. So the very next day I had an audition for Blue Bloods and I'm going the
audition and there are two lines. There's a line for an attorney and a doctor, and there's a line for inmate one and two. Of course, I'm in there to audition for inmate one and two. And I look on the line and there's nothing but black and brown men. So then I asked a question. I'm like, this is a co starring role. I said, maybe if I just asked to let me go into the other line. So why can audition as an attorney or a doctor? And the lady was just like, no, you know, we have
specific audition times for specific people on that line. We're all white and Asian men. And I walked out and Kadin was like, man, that was a fast audition. And I was just like, I didn't do it. I'm not I can't do this anymore. And she was like duvow. She just walked out of the audition. I said, I can't continue to perpetuate the same stereotype. So she was like, well, what's your plan? I said, Instagram has just instituted fifteen
second videos. I'm going to write little fifteen second like scenes for you and I and we're going to map it out and have our own little social sitcom called the Elysis.
And I was like, okay, why do you want to do that?
Just think about it. If we can show people that the black family exists, because at the time, it was just me, her and Jackson, and we can show them what our love looked like, and it's just a regular black family from Brooklyn, just grinding to make it through gentrification. And we had so many things that we could allu you and debate about because we were coming from a man's standpoint and a woman's standpoint, and we were using relationships as our basis. And she was like, all right,
if you see it, I'm with it. Started to do these little skits. Then Instagram turned into sixty second videos and I was like, wow, I got sixty second instead of fact, let's go. It started to blow up, and as it started to blow up, the comment section started to be, you know, men and women starting to debate, like I understand d vous perspective, I understand these perspective.
And then that transitioned into the podcast, and then the podcast transitioned into the YouTube series of Elysis, where we did fifteen minute videos which was a sitcom of our family. And then the next natural step was a book where we can actually write down all our thoughts and tell our story, which we call the Brooklyn Love Story and its totality without being shortened by you know, Twitter limits
or small Instagram limits. So it just transitioned into a book and we wanted to tell our story in our narrative, our way.
Did you see this? So the one I there was one that was like you guys went viral for it was like this really cute picture, like.
Or maybe a series of pictures I remember he had, so that picture went viral.
But then the I didn't realize now the vall that it was you.
But it was this hilarious skit many I don't know if you ever saw it that, Like Kadeen was like not there and the vall had to like take the kids like grocery shopping or something, and he was like, how how your mother gets you out of the house?
Your pants? Your paint again?
It was huh freaking I mean the way I watched that like a hundred times to watch like this dad struggle with like taking the kids outside the house taked like he would always be like, kade what takes you so long to get the kids ready? And when he had to do it himself, he could not believe that somehow she managed to do all of.
This, and he was like, I'm tired. I'm not to go back.
And they hadn't even gone food shopping to where were you supposed to be going? But that was the skit that like put me on to be like wow, like, you know, I love that that it was real and you know that this is what it looks like there. Sometimes, you know, moms make these miracles happen. They make them seem so effortless that like Dad's like, it can't be that hard until it's not for you to.
Do that, right, Yeah, he definitely understood after that.
I get it.
How many kids do y'all have today?
So we have four total now, our youngest year and about fifteen months now, and Jackson, the oldest, is eleven to twelve. And then we have six.
Wow, yeah, yeah, I think of it. I have one and a half.
Yes, I have a three year old and I have a I have another one on the way in a couple of months. Thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, And honestly, I'm like, oh, sorry, what'd you say?
I said we won't be adding anyone to anything over here.
I mean, I'm one of four, so I'm like, you know, part of me is like, I mean, I was number three, so I'm not sure trying to go all.
The way to four.
I'm like, maybe the third got but no. On my my husband and I are relationship. It's and plus the pandemic and you guys have you know, lived through that as a couple as well. I mean, how do y'all see the dynamic of your marriage sort of changing from one to two to three to four kids?
Now?
I feel like after after after three, I was after two, after two.
Whatever.
Yeah, it's just like add another one and another one and another one. They'll figure it out. We'll see kind of like yeah, in the same direction after a while, and then you hope for the best.
You know.
The nice thing we have, the age difference that we have is that Jackson, who's now almost twelve, he's literally conducting himself.
Like a grown man.
It's insane to see how responsible and how mature he is. And we're both the oldest of three, and we can see a lot of those similar qualities in him where we're like, oh, he's definitely a leader, he's a nurturer. So it's nice sometimes to kind of be like, hey, look out for your brother. So since we travel a lot for work, you know a lot of times we have parent guilt leaving because we're like, oh my god, we feakin and you know, Jackson literally like holds it down.
It's so funny. We was having a conversation with Val and I I'm like, you know, text the driver and let him know that we don't need him anymore against to come later to pick up someone else. And Jackson's like, literally over here like texting between us the driver, I got you to worry about it.
We can text because it didn't have an Apple phone. So we were like, then we need somebody to get contact, and we hit our eleven year old send him the number, and then he sends us the screenshot that he sent the driver. He yo, black, my dad said, don't worry about coming. But it's funny.
He's so on it and the picture he's got like a like an airpiece on Lord grown up by now while he's changing a diaper background.
Like making grilled cheese at the same time. It's so funny, but it's really dope to watch.
And when you had that idea to start insta videos, like financially, I mean, what was the conversation like, you know, I'm going to stop taking on these roles, which I know we're not the best, and obviously we're super you know you're a pigeonholed, which is awful, But as a couple, how did y'all handle that?
Financially?
We have so many listeners who are constantly asking us right to like.
How do y'all manage your finances? And like how do you you know, get on the same page.
And it's one thing to manage it when you're both got like nine to five jobs. It's another thing when one of y'all is like, I'm going to leap off this cliff.
You don't, let's go.
Oh for sure. One thing did all knew that we could not be was no starving artist's family. That's the fact that she wanted to be an actor. That's amazing. I'm go go about it, But how are you going to make this happen financially? Because at that point, what year was it, we moved the NFL, you retired, and then we moved back to New York and Brooklyn, and that's when we kind of had to start over again.
So our story is a little interesting because it went from being broken college, to the about getting money in the NFL, to us losing everything in the recession back in two thousand and eight and then having to rebuild again.
And the biggest thing is I've always had plans, and I've always included Kadeen in my plans. On our very first date, Kadeen said to me, what do you want to do with your life? We were eighteen years old, sitting in my dorm room, my very first date, and Martin was on television and I said I want to do that and she was like, what's that? And I said, I'm going to act. And this is the moment, realistically, when I knew I had a partner or somewhe different.
She didn't laugh, she didn't get how are you gonna da da da? She said, okay, how are we going to get there? And it was the how are we going to get there? To me that was kind of intriguing, like wow, First of all, she didn't laugh. Second of all, she included herself in my dream, which made me in that moment, feel like she believes in my dream as well, which made me feel good. So then I told her, I said, well, if I make it to the NFL, and I make a practice squad. I can make this
is at eighteen. Now, I said, I can make one hundred thousand dollars in four months. We can put a down payment in the Brownstone in Brooklyn, we can run out the upstairs two floors, we can live in the basement part and we could We don't have to be starving artists because the rent will cover the mortgage.
And she was like, wow, eighteen at eighteen, and I was like, what, you had a good one.
I was not talking about down payments at eighteen.
The funny thing is that's the way my brain always worked. So as I got to the NFL, of course I bought property, I did all the right things. The recession hits, and I get cut in the same three months. Like the recession hit that summer of two thousand and eight, I get cut in September two thousand and eight. So then for the next four months we were trying to figure out which this income going to come in, because I had bought multiple properties and now I have no income coming in.
Her full part about that, too, is just like we did all of the right things, Like he's so dealing, like his business acumen and his financial acumen was so far beyond anything I had experienced, so I knew he was doing the right things. I was like, he's not throwing bands in the strip club. I mean, you know, he thought we were doing all the right things, but his money. And then here we are back one.
So when I decided to retire, I had told kay I said, listen, give me some time. I will get us back to where we were when I was playing ball. And this is where the partnership comes in. And we worried about this in the book. I said to Kadeen, I'm cut. We don't have insurance. All I need is for someone to have insurance. You're pregnant, so to make sure that we can cover the baby. Stuff like that.
Kadeen took off her engagement ring and put it in her jewelry box, got on that B forty four bus and went to the mall and said, I need a job, and she her biggest focus was getting a full time job so that we can get insurance. So my answer to that question was, anytime there was a financial issue, I never hit it. We talked about how we were going to get ourselves out of that financial situation together. She was never too you too stuck up to pull up our bootstraps and say I'm gonna go work. I
worked as a substitute teacher. I worked as a color commentary on mc varsity. I did personal training. There was no job that was beneath me in order to provide for my family, and my wife felt the same way. So during those times, you just worked harder. We did multiple jobs, multiple tasks, until we got to the point where we could say, you know what, i want autonomy over my time. Now, I'm going to quit this aspect
and just focus on this. And Instagram was able to provide that for us when the brand partnership deals started to come up.
So what are the conversations like now about money?
Now that like you're off the struggle bus, you know, and you're like, so I'm curious, like where are you? So it's like, you know, in the beginning, like so many new entrepreneurs, there's this struggle, and then there's a space where it's like I'm kind of okay, and then there's a space where it's like no, I'm solidly okay, and then hopefully there's a space where it's like I'm beyond okay. I'm actually doing really well, so where are you in that space? And then how have the conversation shifted?
Well, right now we're beyond okay, we're doing extremely row. I like to say, we live in abundance. And the first thing we do is we have a fiduciary responsibility to pay forward. You know. I feel like no one should live in a bonus without being a gift to other people, because this is a gift to well. So that's the first thing. The second thing is all about about wealth building. Now, how can we prepare our children to be in this space regardless of what happens to
them in life. It doesn't matter if I mean, of course we want through the graduate in high school and go to college or learn the trade or do something. But I want to be able to have my children live freely on this planet. And that's what the goal is. Now. What things can be put in place to make sure our children are okay?
And it's funny, Tiffany and Mandy because the Deval for a long time had to school me on the financial world and how things work. I was not good with money, and not to say that I was a frivolous spender, but for example, Deval gave me or put me on his credit card a little bit after what was it the NFL?
This was thousand, So it's two thousand and six six. I was a rookie the NFL, and I was trying to help with build a.
Credit, right because at this point my parents hadn't really explained anything to me about credit or anything. So he added me on in his credit card. So I'm thinking, oh, I got like money percent and I can just pay it back at my leisure. And I didn't realize at the time, I you know, put the card. I think it was like fifteen thousands, just like the with the MAX and I was just making like small payments like oh twenty five thousan a month, you know, not knowing
anything about adults. Right, So there's that things that we were in being broken and going back to Brooklyn having to rebuild. Even in the space that we're in now, I still sometimes move with caution, like I don't want to buy this, or oh what's the budget for that? And that was like my my, my look at person that just used to be like I don't know if you guys have seen this like a video going around a viral where someone has their Apple Panent.
They're like.
Charging everything everywhere, and I just can't get used to that now because I'm still living in this sense of fear sometimes like what if it all get snatched away?
You know?
But Devell has helped kind of ease that anxiety meet and then you know, like, Okay, now we have certain things allotted, like the children will be okay, we will be okay, like these people and things that we have in place will make it so that we're okay, Like you don't have to live like that. But also too, us feel like it's a more stressful environment like that whole more money, more problem situation because now we are technically employing a large group of people to work for us,
to help us create the content that we have. So now I'm thinking about how many people's livelihoods we're responsible for, and that's a different kind of pressure. When you think about it, it's like it's not just about us. It's trying to help make sure that our people around us are also staying afloat. So that's an added layer of stress. Like back in November, Devell had this breakdown unlike anything
I've seen before. I know he doesn't mind sharing it because he's spoken about it, but he was filming his I think it was six season Insisters or STEMA, and I'm pretty much passed out on set. And when I spoke to him and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm a Jamaica at a wedding and I'm like, you know what's going on? And He's just like, Oh, I'm you know, dehydrated.
I'm really stressed out and whatnot. And I said to him toout, like, if you don't feel well this weekend, maybe you can't make it to work on Monday, Like they're going to have to understand your health comes first. And he literally was like no, like I have to go to work because I have to make this money because I have people.
I have to pay.
And that was the main reason why he couldn't even take the time to get one hundred percent back to himself health wise, because he had the stress of thinking about how many people we had that were depending on us. That's another level of stress that you deal with in the financial space.
No, yeah, I mean Tiviany and you you understand this. When you become your own company, you sort of become an economy for so many people, and when you become that economy. It only works as you work. And when you've when you've n trusted people, you put it on them like, hey, I need you to help me, help
me make this happen. But also they've entrusted you, so it's like now they put their livelihoods and their dreams and stuff in your pretty much in your lap and say, hey, as long as you work, I'm here to help facilitate that. But during that time, I didn't realize how much financially,
how much pressure that would be on us financially. And we're at that point now, like I said, when we live in abundance, so we always want to pay forward and help people, but it is like a huge responsibility to make sure that we always bring in enough to make sure that we can put it back out there too.
You can I give you some advice and feedback.
Of course you can, because you already know how well I was saying. I was there.
Lookdin was like growl, let me get my notebook right.
So this is for So this is that's a stage in entrepreneurship that you know, many of us reach, especially if we are the face of our brand. Like Mandy has her own business. She teaches career negotiating, especially the women, and so in the beginning, yes, you are the face first, just you, you know, because you're like, I ain't got money to pay nobody, So you do all the things, and then if your fortunate business grows, you bring on
help and then they're working side by side. And then you get to a point where it's like you literally for many people. You have to work in order to provide for not just your family, but your business family. And that's where it gets tricky because same I had like my blood pressure was.
Through the roof.
I mean it was to the point where was like you been have a heart attack, tivity, because you can't be No. One sixty one seventy over one hundred.
I mean it was.
I stopped taking my blood pressure like I didn't have I wasn't on medication, but the doctor was like, if you come back with this blood pressure like this again, I'm gonna put you on medication. I gained like thirty pounds the level I was so stressed. I didn't know what it felt like not to be stressed. Yeah, you know, I used to tell myself I'm a morning person because I woke up every morning at four or five am, until I realized I'm not necessarily a morning person. It
was anxiety. I could not sleep, even in my dreams. I was working in my dream I remember literally in my dreams on a computer. But you know so, and it doesn't it shouldn't have to take tragedy. But I knew, like a year or so before my husband passed away, I knew that something had to shift because I was declining and I was trying to make these small little shifts and small little shifts, and it wasn't really enough.
And it wasn't until Jarrell passed away that I realized I have to make a huge, sweeping change because you got to choose, Tiffany, You're either gonna grieve over your health or grieve over your husband, because I just didn't have the capacity to do both. And so I said, I need to get my health together. And one of the ways is I had to revamp the way I
did business that it doesn't like now. The way the business runs largely it doesn't have to fully depend on me hitting the track, because at one point it was like yo if because I could not work for six months after he passed away, and I saw like a whole new side of people who I thought were down for whatever. When I could no longer dance, you know, dance to dance to make sure everybody ate, And so slowly but surely I started to shift my business.
I had to reduce some staff.
You know, it wasn't pleasant, but I had to and to shift the way, like I pivoted from the money has to come from Tiffany being there to what are other ways? So I'm in the budgeties is in the business of community and content. That's what I told my team. So how do we monetize the community? How do we monetize the content where it doesn't depend on me going out to speak? So even now we are in the middle of like this huge shift and pivot because right
now it used to be one hundred percent Tiffany. Now it's about seventy sixty seventy percent Tiffany. By the end of the year, my AAM is fifty percent, by next year thirty percent. But it has to be intentional or
you will work yourself to the ground. So the key in all things when it comes to business in particular, I've been talking to a lot of people this week, is that I call it you want to start to pre pivot, meaning you should be able to end your business, look into the future and say this is where this is headed sick, overwhelmed overwork that so before we get there three years from now, what do I need to do now? Because you will have to pivot because your body is going to force you. But if I can
pre pivot, do it willingly. I can take my time and I can do so. And although it's hard and not everyone's going to be happy about it, but I can do so. So in three years, when the event happens or whatever, then I've already done the work or or the foundation or whatever it is that I'm needing to do. And so that's just for all business owners.
For YouTube Mandy, is that ideally, what you hope is that you bake this in to your business model, that you don't go so far that it's just like you you you you, And if you haven't, you know, you start you have to ask yourself like, well, how do I want what am I in the business of, How do I want my business to make money outside of me? What do I need to start doing to start to
integrate that into the business now? Because I promise you like a reckoning is coming if you don't, because if you pass that on set, the body keeps the score.
It's like, I don't care what you're talking.
About that you find I say, you're not lay down, you know, and so like I don't want that for anyone listening, and so yeah, I just it's not likely we could talk offline about like some ideas, like you know, cause I literally just meeting with my friend love yesterday. My friend bos was like, can't we talk? Everyone is just like, can't we talk? Because I'm the queen of the pre pivot, like to get ahead of this thing before it takes me out.
Wait, the conversation is getting so juicy, but we got to take a break pay mills, you know. So we will be right back with Kadeen and Duval stay put and we're back in black.
Yeah, I mean as a couple, like I listen, I mean we were at my husband and I were at a friend's friend, a couple friend's house yesterday and they were making pizzas and like, it's really hard to not compare yourself to other couples, right, I don't know, for me, anyway, I try not to. I've gotten there about not comparing
my son to other kids. But I'm just like, Wow, they've been making these pizzas and I haven't heard either of them like snap or like, you know, like there's enough space in the kitchen for them like with us. But can y'all talk about like I mean, and I'm sure in the book you know you talk about this too, how there are imperfect not imperfections, but just the reality of being you know, too strong independent minded people in
a relationship. Have there been moments where like one of y'all have wanted to go one way and the other the other direction, and you were just like doing this tug of war and how you maybe navigated that.
I think either of us are so strong in our thoughts that we're not willing to bend. It's really like there's no power struggle here, nor is there, uh like forcing of one to be the leader and be right in that moment. I feel like whoever is better equipped in a certain moment to do whatever the task is, we do it. And if we feel strongly about something, we voice that and then we find a way to
work around it. Because usually, for the most part, I feel like we usually land in the space where dvas like Coadin, I really don't care about this particular thing. If you hear that much about it, God make a decision and I'm un rock with you. I think we both respect each other not to know that we're never going to lead each other too far straight and if we see it happen and we know how to read each other back in. But have you really struggled with anything much?
No?
I think I think part of this kind of goes back to what Tiffany was saying. But I love the pre pivot, so I'm good at foreseeing when things I'm like something something ain't like. That's why last year to me was an anomaly. But when it comes to us making decisions, there's no wrong decision. So if Kadeen is strong minded about something, and say, for example, it goes in the direction that I don't foresee it being being positive or successful, I'm like, babe, how about we tried
this a week? We make move this way like I don't. It's no blame game. It doesn't matter who made the decision. This is the decision we're going because one of us is strong minded about it, and it works out perfectly badly celebrated if it don't. Let's pivot before it gets
too bad and move on. And I think that type of idea, that there's no wrong decision or no bad decision, allows us to not argue about what we're going to do, because most of those arguments tend to be, well, you made the mistake, you made the decision if we would have did it my way, and in my mind, there
is no my way. You know, We've been doing this together since eighteen and when I say together, I mean right now, maybe de Vos season, because I'm on television and I'm the one who came up with Instagram and all this other stuff. But there was a point when it was Kadeen's season and I had to just be the person to just rock with her. I was an All American in college and she needed help with her white balance filming for her while she was working for
New twelve. I got the camera on my shoulder, I got the paper out, and I'm trying to do this because I have to play my part in her dream as well. So since we've been used to for twenty years, always playing our role in the other person's ideas of success, it's like, all right, well, what do you want to do how are we going to do it together?
And that's essentially how we came up with the title of the book, about to say, dating camera on his shoulder, Okay, you are aging us my good man.
Es.
Okay, so we over me.
If anyone's listening, whether they're single, partner and married or whatever, what do you hope like, what's like one of some key lessons that you hope people take away, you know, for their own lives, whether they're partners or not.
Well, the first thing is we over me. We hope that folks know that this is not like a relationship how to book. I know it kind of gets put under those categories, but we really didn't want it to be a book that people went to thinking like we're going to give them some outline of what made the perfect marriage or the best relationship, because we don't profess
to have all the answers. What we were hoping to do in the book is to just share a little bit about our love story, our journey, because a lot of times people will see and then'd be like, oh my god, Kadin, what was your prayer?
Devo?
What was your prayer? Or how did I get this? Devo? How do I get Kadeen and it's like Kadina de value. See today is twenty years in the making. We didn't just wake up like this.
You've been reminding myself that. I'm like, m hm, they said twenty years.
It's been less than how long how long you been with your husband?
About twenty twelve, like eleven years together and married five.
So I'll give you some insight real quick to the book. Okay, our first five years of marriage was terrible, like Soto back.
After and you didn't have to deal with a pandemic.
This was no pandemic and this was NFL. So it was like everything was blissed, free, free college education, everything. And we had been together eight years before then. So we're telling you that for the first thirteen years of our friendship slash courtship slash marriage, we were at each other not knowing how to do this thing. We like to tell people that because people will get into a relationship and after six months like ah, I shouldn't be this hard.
This supposed to be blissed, and it's like thirteen years it took for us to be like, wait a minute, I got to change my mindset if I want to be successful moving forward, and for Kadeen and I, we want people to understand that it's about choices, right.
The first thing we say in the book is that you don't have to stay where you're not wanted or where you don't want to be, and it's okay to move forward. The biggest thing is we work because I make a choice to be here, and she makes a choice to be here. The obligation to be there because of a title or because of children will put you in a trap where you feel like your back's against the wall and creates more issues than anything else. The first step that I want to say to anybody is
choose yourself. Make that choice to be like I want to be in this situation, whether it's monogamous, polygamists, like, there's so many different lifestyles, choose whicheveryone works for you for us, monogamy work for somebody else, it may not work. And it's okay to choose what you like. And once you make that choice, be ready to be a service to whoever you're in a relationship with. And that's really
what we want people to understand. Make a choice to choose yourself, and if you want to be in a relationship, be of service to that person. Don't go to that relationship thinking this person better check all these boxes that I've created for this super imaginary person. And the first box they don't check, I'm out of here. How can you be a service to someone else in a relationship? That's what we really want, right.
That's why the subtitle is the counter intuitive approach to getting everything you want out of your relationship, because, like dev I said, typically you think about getting into a relationship and things, think about what you can gain from a person, right, this person has to have all these things in order for us to be in a relationship.
Where our approach, which we've learned over the years that makes more sense and leaves us feeling like things are reciprocated, is where we really tap into how we can be of service. So in the mornings, for example, I've learned to, you know, wake up, you know, think about my day, look over devout and be like, hey, you know, what can I do today to make your.
Day that much brighter? How can I.
Alleviate something off of your plate so that your stress level is a little bit reduced today? And just by doing that alone, I've realized that Wow, like fring something up for him in turn lets him know that I care A B makes you stay that much lighter, and then C He's probably more inclined to say, damn, Kay really thought about me this morning. What can I do to reciprocate that?
Well?
Can you tell him how we got there? Because it wasn't like.
Loving.
This is like Michelle Obama when she came out talking about ten years. I forget if it was the first ten years or there was a ten year period of her in Barock's marriage. It's so important and I wonder if this is like something to note to because I mean black love, you know, hashtag black love. There's now a series called black Love.
And have you guys been on that?
You should be on that you were on?
There?
We want season two?
Oh amazing?
Okay, I'm like duh, because y'all are like the Randall and Beth in real life from like real life Randal and Beth, But even they had their challenges, and I feel like it's important because yes, we need more imagery of black love and like beautiful reciprocated relationships and full and complete relationships. We just don't to your point about you know, Hollywood and entertainment. We don't really see that
so often. At the same time, I don't know if we do ourselves at disservice if we don't also show the struggle and show the work you know, that goes into that. So it's really great that you guys are sharing that. I'll stop now because I'm I'm being poured into so you can continue.
Yeah, I'm gonna yeah about how did you get what was that? Five years in? And then there was a switch like what happened?
So there was a moment five years and this is twenty and sixteen. Twenty sixteen, Kadeen and I had already decided that we were going to you know, this year was going to be a year we're going to have another child, because we almost lost Kadeen having Jackson. She had a cervical tear get a cervical teer having Jackson. She was bleeding out. She had an emergency surgery. I
had made a promise to God. I said, you know, if you get my wife through this, I would not have another child and I would cherish this woman and this child for the rest of my life. That was my promise to God. And I was just like, I just want my wife to be okay, and Kadeen made it through and I was like, I don't want any more kids. Five years later, Kadeen and I both decided like, you know what, if you feel comfortable, let's try to
have another child. So in that moment that was twenty fifteen, actually we were trying to get pregnant and Kadeen wasn't getting pregnant. So we had both made it were like, hey, listen, we're getting older. We should be in the best shape of our life. You almost die having the first child. You have to be in better shape. We got to work out together, we got to eat better, we got
to get more sleep. Like we had pretty much said to each other these promises that we were going to do to make sure this pregnancy was going to be better. And coming off of Christmas time, there was another financial issue. The American Express bill was run up. Me and Kadeen had an argument about the American Express. Build walk into the gym the next day. This is the right after the American Express argument, and she was like, she's going to go work out. I go to work, I'm training clients,
I'm doing everything. At this point, KaDee wasn't working full time because I had took on all that loads so that she can relax. I'm getting ready to leave the gym. She still hadn't worked out. I snapped. Now we've talked about snapping. I snapped. You know what the problem is, You procrastinate too much. Every time I'm trying to get something done, it's always like I gotta wait for you and wait for you and wait for you. I'm tired of waiting for you. You run up the American Express bill.
You're not working anymore. It's like you just it was just everything was just unloading, unloading, unloading. So now, if you know my wife, my wife is a very passionate Jamaican in vincention woman from Brooklyn, and she's coming back at me. We're going back and forth, and this is how bad I talk to. You were screaming at each other in the gym, in my office, screaming and cursing, screaming and cursing. And I said her, you know what, I think we need to get a divorce. And she's like,
are you serious? I'bod yes, because you're fing lazy, right, this is I screaming my wife. She goes, I'm not fing lazy deval, I'm efing pregnant, and I go.
Damn, you had a Trump card in your back part.
Trash, Why don't you? I said, why didn't you believe with at? Like?
Why does it have more satisfying that way?
Clearly tell because we were trying for this baby part like what are we going to do to make it that much more special? And then I just couldn't hold it.
In that moment, I was like And in that moment when I had agg on my face, I realized that, you know, I claimed to be a provider and a protector because I made enough money to make sure my wife could be at home. If anybody got my wife face, I'm willing to do whatever. That's what I thought my version of providing and protecting. In that moment, I realized I wasn't providing and protecting anything. I wasn't there emotionally,
I wasn't there spiritually. How did I not realize that my wife was going through a physiological change that she couldn't work out because she was having morning sickness? And I said to myself, how am I going to be there to advocate for my wife in the in the in the opportunity that something happens to her again during her pregnancy if I'm not paying attention. So I said to her in that moment, I said, Kadeen, from this point on, while you're pregnant, whatever you say, I got you.
The answer is going to be yes. I'm going to be in service to make sure we get through this. Because it hit me like a ton of bricks. I have to be aware of what my wife is going through in her tired body. I almost lost her once and here I am only focused on what I think I need to do as a man, that I'm not paying attention to the person that's most important to me.
And then through that pregnancy, our relationship change because I was so focused on being of service, being on service, being of service that Kadean started to reciprocate in a way that had never happened in our relationship. And then the light bulb paid me, boom, why didn't I do this one? She's not pregnant, you let me do this, Let me do this. But then there was another shift, and this is important. Kadeen had got so used to me being in service because she had got pregnant and
then got pregnant again. It was always about Kadeen, about Kadem, about Kadema and Ifou always saying to Kadeen, I'm fine, I got it, and I wasn't okay. And during the pandemic December twenty twenty, we're getting ready to go into twenty twenty one. I looked at Kadeen and I said, you know, it's been four years since we've had Cairo, and when you wake up in the morning, what's your first thing you think about. We have three kids now. She said, well, I gotta make sure the kids get ready.
I gotta make sure I work out. I got to make sure I do this. I got to make sure there's a tv ou Da da da da da. I said, do you realize that you mentioned everybody except me? And for the first time, I was honest with her about how that made me feel. I didn't just sit back on it and get resentful. I didn't do what men typically do, which is I'll eat it. I'll deal with it on my own. I'm not going to say nothing.
She better figure it out. I didn't do that. I told her exactly how it made me feel, and I told her what I wanted and what I needed, and I watched to go, wow, I'm so sorry, Like, I didn't realize that I always put you on the back burner because you always say you're okay. Yeah, And I realized when I told her, like, how could I expect her to know that if I always say I'm fine, I'm good when I'm not. And in that moment, our relationship changed again. It went from me servicing her to
us always serving each other. And I got to be honest. There was a meme that I saw yesterday and it was a woman who said, when's the last time? It was like a bunch of this, when's the last time you said to your man, I'm proud of you, baby, I love you, baby, thank you baby? Are you hungry? Baby? And I looked at all these things and I say, you know, my wife says those things to me a lot, but it wasn't happening until I told her how it made me feel. And then she realized what I need
because I told her what I need. And I think that's when our relationship changed.
Yeah, for sure, because I just expected him to understand. You know, I'm like, I'm an adult, you're an adult. We have two point five three kids at this time you know, we're not the one.
On the plane.
So I'm just just like, yo, we're all we're in the mud, like you know, you and I and I just expected to vow to just be okay because he always said he was okay. And now I'm literally looking this man in his eyes, especially after his episode in November, I'm like, again, you're saying you're okay, and you're not okay.
So we've practiced that a lot more now, and I can see how this has been a big shift in our dynamic and our relationship, even as recently as like the past three four months, you know, because I had Dakota, our last son, the year before that. So back into the pick of being pregnancy.
So hard when you are, yeah, this has been a really tough pregnancy for me, and I'm so sorry that what you went through with your pregnancy, and also you're a badass for doing it three more times after that. Women are phenomenal, But it is, you know, a lot of the attention is on us and our feelings, and my attention is on me and my business and my son,
you know what I mean. And it's almost like it's it becomes at least challenging to have another to to and especially when you have a partner who is quite independent and has their own thing going on, you sometimes can feel like, wait, we're parallel, Like we're in that you said, the ud, we're in the mud together, but like this is your mud lane and this is my mud lane, and it's.
Like did you survive today? Yeah, did you survive?
Yeah? Good night, and like the team huddle, like that connection the bridge and the mud. That's what we are working on, I think, because I mean not that it's bad, but it's just like what we need right now, I feel like, is just to do what we can to
just own what we have going on. And I think, yeah, I'm hoping that we could have a similar moment like that, because to it matters, you know, it matters to have that time and to look into another person's eyes, even if they are strong and we are the strongest of the strong, right.
And remind them that they got them.
Are pregnant, right, Kadeen was just pregnant. Kadeen was pregnant last year. Kadean didn't want to be nowhere near me or anybody in this house. Like women understand what women have to understand that like your body goes through physiological changes and you're not going to feel like yourself. And I wish there were more more educational resources for both men and women how to deal with pregnancy right because I and this is this is Kadeen and I who
just wrote a book New York Times bestseller. They must communicate great. While she was pregnant, I used to be like, yo, I have not You haven't hugged me or kissed me in three days. Do you realize you've been in that bedroom by yourself? And She's just like, I know, I just I just don't feel like being around people. But I miss you and I'm just like I did it they and I understand where you're coming from, and I'm
just letting you know how it's making me feel. But that was twenty years in the making getting to that point. When she had those moments before, of course I felt bad, but I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to articulate it. So give yourself grace and give your husband grace and not knowing and understanding it's only been ten years. And I know to people it's south crazy. It's only been ten years. It should know each other
by ten years. No, like we take time to constantly you know, readjust yourself to see what your partner is going through. It takes time, and there's never a point in a marriage because I can tell you right now, as great as we think our marriage is now, five years from now, when it gets even better, we're going to talk about this time and say, can you believe that's how we communicate it then? Like it's just that it's an ongoing conversation of trying to be better for
each other. So give yourself grace and understand this. Whenever we do a live show, I talk about pregnancy for women and postpartum pregnancy because this is the truth. The most disciplined human beings in the world, and all of the armed forces, the Navy, seals, the Army rangers, the Marine Corps, you know what, they train the hardest to deal with sleep deprivation. Can you imagine that those discipline people in the world have to train to deal with
sleep deprivation. But we expect mothers and expecting mothers to know how to deal with this in real time with no training and balance being a new mom and a wife or a girlfriend and a career and a house. It's damn there impossible. So you have to give yourself grace.
And I think more men should be educated on giving women grace because I was the same imbecile that told my wife six months, six weeks after having our first child, you acting like you the first baby, first woman to have a baby, for breastfeeding, breastfeed threat, the three babies, still a lot of time. This is this is why we tell you.
You're still just a real man inside. Okay, got it, got a regular degular man.
I'm a regular degular man who doesn't know and understand. Like, that's why I like telling the stories because it took me four pregnancies to be like you.
I wish I was a And it's probably because mothers do the same thing. It's like we're super people. We don't want to admit that we're hurting. We don't tell that story. It's become really hard for him. It's hard when and it's also hard to see your partner who you know, we met when I was twenty five, he was in his mid twenties two change, and I'm not physically the person I was even a year ago.
I can't keep up when we're walking.
I'm like, you know, and I, you know, running around after a toddler and all that, but it's it's I can see him being like, Okay, she's different now and almost a little bit like fearful or anxious, like is this going to be forever?
You know?
And I feel like yeah, but that really resonates with me, and I hope he gets there too.
And to practice was what we call radical transparency, that if.
It comes up, it comes out yep ya no, because I just I was I was a terrible communicator and like he just was always like he was really good at saying how he felt, but he was also some of the hoods.
So sometimes I'm like, not with that tone, sir girl, this is not this is not three B in the projects, like.
What you know.
I'm like, oh my god, like that transparency.
Yes, So it was like if it comes up, it comes out, yes, just rest.
But I learned, I mean, I'm so much better at it now that if something is wrong because I was the queen of holding it and then three months later, because that time's like from three months ago, why did you say something?
And then you build it.
It's like you're dragging it around, is gathering dust and dirt, and debris and then you throw it in their face and you're like you should have known.
It's like, how could I have known that?
You know?
How could I have known that? And so now with everyone, therapy has helped tremendously.
I practiced radical transparency, which is if it comes up, you know, I would say ninety percent of the time, it comes out, because if that's the lightest time you'll ever have, like hey babe, you know when.
You said that thing that actually hurt my feelings?
Yep, you know, like or you know, I don't like when you say that when my friends are around, you know, And learning to like receive it without the initial because I'm very defensive.
I have four sisters, so you know, we can scrap. I'm like, first of all, well we can't, you know.
So I learned to be like receive it because what I'm really feeling is not it's not really anger, it's shame because I know I'm wrong.
Instead of fighting toward that, it's like, okay, I could see that, Okay, and I.
Get I get the I call it the post socialization debrief. I'm the chatty one in the relationship, so I I he can he gets the way with a lot because he doesn't say that much, so I can get myself in trouble. And then after we hang out with other people, all get in the car and you get in the car and you have that moment and I'm just like, what did.
I say that? You know that hurt her feelings.
To tell me?
And he's like, good, I was so defensive, yes, but now I've just gotten better saying I really didn't mean to.
And it's just I'm like, damn it, why can't Why do I do this?
You know? But you know, I don't want to be that way, but it's yeah, but it's definitely helps to get over things. And I will say that's growth for us too, that he's even communicating that kind of stuff.
And creating a safe space that people can tell you about yourself, you know, and even maybe in the moment, like me and Gerol after a walk came up with like signals if I was doing too much, you know, it would just be like.
Like, oh my business, thank you.
It's like and wrapping it up.
So you know that way because sometimes you know, you don't realize and I'm like, oh, okay, you know, and so like creating these kind of like tools. We had like a safe word when we were if we were going to be in an argument when it went from helpful to hurtful, because you know you've got like ooh, child, let me gear up. And so our safe word was pineapples. So it'd be like and another thing. He'd be like pineapples. I'm like, I'm sorry, what the rule of pineapples is?
Like all speaking ceases. You go to your corner, I go to mind, you go to the man cave, I go see it wherever. And it's like, you said, what now pine naples, which I'd like, yes, yes, but it gave me a moment to relax and usan say, you were about to say something really hurtful tivity to your teammate.
Y'all got the same jersey on. If he lose, I lose.
And so pineapples was like a saving grace to the point where we got so good at it we were internally pineapples ourselves, because I'd be like in my head, I'd be like, tifany pineapples to myself, pineapples, girl, you
about to take it too far. And so but these are the things like like over time, you know that like you just practice and you work on if you're wanting to go from like an okay marriage to good, yess great, exceptional you know every year, I mean to your point, Like the first five years for us, it was like dating.
It was a hot mess.
And then we got better and better, and once we got really good at communicating, it was like we had like such an awesome and even still he was still here, we were still growing.
I was still like, oh this, I could do this even better because I worked so much. He is really the type to be like when I come home, I would love for my wife to be home and be like.
Daddy's home, you know, just to pause for a moment, cause I'd be like, uh, okay, foods and the friends.
Yeah.
I didn't realize how much it meant.
For him for me to pause, yeah and just come and greet him and how is your day? Twenty thirty minutes and I could get back to whatever. And so like, learning those little nuances made all this. It's like there was nothing he wouldn't do because I made.
Those you know, those those spaces for.
Him and so and the thing is, it sounds it sounds clichetive, but it's true, right, Like one thing I we talk about in the book is you have to stop comparing yourself to other people's relationships, because the minute you try to tell and make your relationship to other people's expectations, you're gonna fail. Like you can't be the greatest version of somebody else, They're already being the greatest version of themselves. And what works for you may not
work for other people. So seeking validation from other people about what you should do and your relationship is also a recipe for failure. For example, Kadeen and I have been on social media and on television talking about our life. Right of course, people have commentary I would never put up with that, I would never do this. I would never do that. Most people get defensive and be like, I'm just sharing, how could you have these opinions about
my marriage. I don't get offended about opinions about our marriage because people are entitled to have their opinions about what we do. But if it works for us, I'm not concerned about Taylor making my marriage to other people's opinions. For example, Tiffany just said she wants her husband wanted her to be like, hey, Daddy's home. You know how many women would have been like, I ain't never calling a man daddy. No no, no, no, no no no, you don't have to. That's not your husband. I want
to call my husband daddy. That's what it is. It's the same thing for me. I talk about traveling. Kay wants to travel. We talked about our sex life. She loves to travel. We have better sex with we travel. You know how many guys like I ain't buying no plane ticket just to have sex with a woman who wants to be with her. You know exactly. You don't have to. I'm not asking you to do that for your girl. I'm telling you what works for me. But for us, it's like, we do what works for us.
We're unapologetic about it. I got some backglass because I said, listen, when I come home tonight, I want my wife to some poom poom shorts and a crop top, and I want my food made so that I can be the best parader I can be. Of course, women will be like this ain't the fifties, Da da da da. I'm not telling you that you have to do that for your man. What I'm saying is this is what we work for us. She enjoys dressing up. I enjoy looking
at it, I enjoying her. All the stuff y'all saying y'all would never do is not going to change the fact that we do this for each other. So when we talk about that in the book, it's like, stop the whole couple's goals. People ask me all the time, who is your favorite couple goal of lineals? I don't have one. I want to be the best version of the Violenkadeen. I could be like I don't look at anybody in this generation or even before and say I
aspire because I don't want to fall short. Like there as certain things, for example, Barack may do for Michelle, and I know this. For example, I know this for a fact. When we first got married, I used to look at couples and be like, then he do that for his wife and she gets excited about it, So I'm gonna do it for my wife. And I would do it and can even just be looking at me.
I'd be like, you know what your problem is? You weren't grateful wife, and they was excited, and she was just like, I didn't ask you to do none of this, and I was just like, what do you mean to ask I was being thoughtful when I did it, and then I realized, like, why am I? Why am I going outward to find out what my wife wants? And why am I getting offended because my wife doesn't want what another woman wants? Why do I just ask my wife what she wants and do my best to provide it.
The more I started to look inward and right here and be like, baby, what you need, what you need, what you want, the easier it became as opposed to guessing by looking at other people. So I just want people when they read the book and when they think about relationship, stop thinking about everybody else. Focus here, Just focus here on what you got and do your best to be that version for that person, because that's the person you chose.
Well.
On that note, we really want to thank Caden and daval Ellis for coming on the show. If you do not have it already, we over me the counter intuitive approach to getting everything you want from your relationship.
It is a New York Times bestseller, which is rare, rare.
Don't know what to do, especially black people to comment, look at this, I wouldn't say, I would say more peanut.
Butter can.
That means I have to get traveled soon.
So where can they if they want to purchase this book? Where can they purchase it? And then where can they find y'all to continue the conversation for sure?
Well, the best place to get the book we realized so far has been bookshop dot org because is a great way to support a local bookstore independent stores in your areas. So bookshop dot org, Amazon, of course, Barnes and Nobles. Wherever you get your books, you can find me. I'm Kadeen. I am on Instagram and I just started tiktoking my big age y'all, so be with me trying to figure it out. And then our podcast page dead. Ask the podcast on Instagram.
Listen, I am devout and I'm used to doing this for the podcast. If you're listening with Apple.
Music Channel too. Now you can subscribe to Patreon for more long content from us. So okay, dope conversation, dope conversation all day, always good time.
If we miss you, yo, Mat.
You used to be on the show all the time, that lady again. You know you've always been one of our highest rated your shows.
Every every time you're on, people be like I got because you always drop so many gems and like people, especially black and brown people, need to understand how important financial security is and how they can gain access to it. Like people just think I got to be an athlete and entertainer to make money and build wealth. Know you don't know, you don't Typically has dropped so many gems on us that we've applied to our life and been like, oh shit, you see that work, and I'm telling you
typically what you do is amazing. We appreciate you, Mandy. It's good to get to know you. I'm pretty sure we can build our relationship and congratulations to you. I can tell your part that you're an amazing woman and you want to be an even more amazing woman for your family and especially your husband, So keep working at it and hopefully he's doing the same on his end.
Listen, these hormones will make me start crying, so let me say I can feel that, I can feel the prickles. Thank y'all so much.
We hope that you love the show. Be a listeners. You know we'd be having that beast people on here, so go ahead and support we over me.
You know, if I condemed to fall on social listen to the podcast dead Ass and we're gonna see you next week.
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