Let me carry it. Hey, Hey, hey, got thinking of it.
We're back. We're black. I'm sick and it's run a bit.
Shit.
Yes, I'm sick again. I'm praying it's not COVID. I don't think it's COVID. I've taken to COVID test. It says not COVID. I think maybe I don't even know. I don't even know what.
Other ways to be sick. And you get just how much sympathy.
I think it's just I don't know. It might be a flu around the season. Sometimes I get like a little like the flu or whatever. I mean, there's green stuff coming up, so I'm assuming. I'm like, i never had green stuff with COVID. I'm sorry, guys, So I know, just literally I'm calling my mom like it's like, I know that's really what I've been doing, like tea and sleep, ta and sleep.
Yeah.
But I mean, I if you guys have been watching my Instagram stories I had. I took the team, my business partner took our teams to New Orleans for our annual team retreat, which we have not done in two years because of COVID. But it was so amazing. I have to say New Orleans is such a magical place for black and brown people. I mean it just yeah, you know, and it was so crazy Mandy because I was like we were we were by the waterfront, and
I was sharing everybody. I said, you see those steps right there, those are the steps where Mandy and I planned out. Isn't that crazy?
I was like, I read that makes it sound really old.
I know.
I was just like my sister was like, really I wanted to cording off that step. That student was there was I feel like there were free tracks. It was somewhere random.
Well, we were walking like we were walking like like you know, we were walking up and down like that kind of like the waterfront, and you know, we ended up just sitting there just talking for some time about like what you know, just a joke because you'd asked me how to before. But we just you know, sat and just like talked about like, you know, we were talking about like at the time, your husband was your boyfriend. I don't you know, I think Jiro was my boyfriend too.
There was no kids in the picture. It was just like two brown girls who were like, let's do this thing.
Just had free time and energy.
I know, we were there for the FINCN. Yeah, and it was like, you know, I don't think anybody really goes to like unless it's like your friends, like whatever workshop. You know that, you know how it is with conferences. You go to your friends workshop, but then you really go to hang out and have a good time, you know.
I think so we did personally.
Yeah, and it was just a really good time. And I remember just like obviously I've known you before and we were cool because you had done a couple of articles on me. But yeah, you were like we should do a podcast, and I think I was like, what's the podcast?
Oh, that's interesting my number? Yeah, nobody, y'all's trip locked freaking amazing, Like I had a little bit of fomo. But also shout out to you for choosing the best weather, like the best time to go to you know, essence fast is like in the armpit of hell. July. Girl, It's like why they got it.
Just to us day When I said we had a time, I mean we had a time. I mean they went out every night. And I just was like I canno because I could already found myself getting sick because I just been doing a lot of travel. I went to Detroit to speak at event, and then it was like literally landed. It was a list of sweet sixteen and then at to fly to LA for an event a day later. I was home for one day, then flew
New Orleans. I just think, honestly, this is like my body saying, girl, you need to sit down, or we're gonna sit you down and sit too much of a good thing. But it was Honestly, it was just awesome. Like there's something about hanging out with like your crew of people that you really enjoy. And we get to see each other. I mean, we see each other all the time on Zoom and stuff like that, but it's nothing like being in person. We do certain things every
year for our retreats. We always do a spa day, so we did the Roosevelt, which is a wald of a historian hotel, which was awesome. We always do like a fun day where we do something like fun and kind of physical, like one year we did ATV and I think this year we went swamp tour like that, you know, like you take the airboat. Yes, that was fun. We got to feed alligators and crocodile. I don't know the difference. We also my favorite though, on our activity day was we did a second line band, which.
That's what I saw at IG that I was like, yes, do it up. That was just for y'all.
Yes, yes, we use this company, this black owned mother daughter company called Prime Time. They're based out of Chicago. So if ever ever ever you need to like I don't know what other kind of planning they do, but if you ever needed planning, like a corporate retreat, they were excellent. They flew into New Orleans, made sure everything was great. The house they picked for us was amazing. So we got like this eight bedroom beautiful home and then we got a nearby hotel so that we ever
could have their own room. So like myself and like the other C suite stayed in the house and that's where we had a private chef. Our chef was actually the great was the granddaughter of Fats Domino, which was so awesome. He's like this really famous jazz musician. Yeah, out of a New Orleans and so it was just an amazing, amazing trip. But yeah, the second Line band, I mean that is on my story. My story has already passed, but if you go to my page you
can see us, so you know you I didn't know. Like, I was always like, what's the first line band? They're like, the band is the first line. I'm like, oh, and so you are the second line.
And so we were thought to even ask what that meant.
Yeah, I didn't really you know, but it's this jazzy I mean, it was amazing to have your own parade that's what they call it down Bourbon with police escort. It was just that was just so epic. It was it was like a core memory, you know. But yeah, it was just I mean we were like, you know, we're so black because we were electric sliding in the house we played it. Apparently there's a taboo taboo culture.
See, that's just part of the trip that I was most jealous of. I'm as game nights. I haven't had a game night like three years, and I'm like, damn, that looks so fun. And I'm so good at taboo too.
So we're gonna tell you I am. I'm not a lot, I'm a taboo massed up.
You were getting it. I could see the fire.
Yeah. The other was so sick of us because I'm a really good guesser. But I'm also really good, like you know, because I'm really good at analogies, yo, but it was a lot. I tell you, it was just a really good time. And so I'm just grateful for the time with the team. And even though I came to you sicker than when I left.
I'm glad that you gave them everything, but hopefully have some time for yourself now. I do wonder because on the last episode you said your budget was like eighty k Did you use every penny of it?
No? So what we decided was because at first I remember like, so shout out to Tammy. She was like, was kind of like the our internal internal organizer, and she was like saying, I guess they didn't have enough, like you know, because she came to me she was like, Oh, there's all these fun things we're gonna do. We don't have enough money. I said, have we not have enough money?
We have eighty thousand dollars She's liked No. The CFO Georgia shared with us that we can use forty and I was like, why, So I hit up the CFO, like are we saving that money for anything? She's like no, because last trip was forty. I'm like, girl, that's how the trip to work. The trips work in accordance to what we have saved up. Like that's the point, you know, this is money that we've collectively made with our efforts. We set aside three percent of our net profit, you know.
And so I said how much we should have? I think it was between eighty and eighty five. And I asked Tammy and I said, you know, it's sixty enough and if it's not, you can come back, and she's like, no, no, sixty will be plenty, and so they ended up using sixty. So I was like, girl, we released the coins, so we still have some money left over it just because
I'm not gonna lie. This year was a really rough year for the Literature Academy, and so I didn't want to use the full eighty because I wanted for next year that we had some money, you know, set aside for to still be able to go on a trip, you know what I mean. It might not be as lavish, but I didn't want to, like, you know, totally drain our trip account. So yeah, there's about twenty to twenty five thousand I was left over for next year, plus whatever we make, you know.
So yeah, do you mean like rough in terms of the like I know, at the beginning of the year, it was really tough because you had the layoffs and everything. H do you mean like just in terms of like morale from all of that, and I don't know, it seems like this would be a good way.
Meaning like I mean financially rough. So a lot of my friends also have online schools, and it's it's it's I've just been getting that same feedback across the board. Because one, ads don't do what they used to do.
So many of us were like AD dependent, which we're trying to switch away from that, but so many of us were AD dependent, and so as a result of being AD dependent, you know, like you know, as soon as they change the rule, an AD that might might bring in, you know, tens of thousands of thousand a month, all of a sudden brings in nothing. So you're like, so what do I do now?
And so that was you mean like meta like Facebook, Yes, but.
That's the majority of us wh they're running ads. You're running ads on Facebook and Instagram and so like, it's just the rules are always changing. So just when you get acclimated or you get one thing good going and the way ads work, it's a moving train. So let's just say they say these are the new rules, and you're like, okay, it takes a while for the train to get back moving. You know, trains don't go from
zero to sixty and sixty seconds. It takes a while, and so it's just expensive every time you have to pivot. Then you have to spend all this money to get the train moving, only for them to be like, oh, we'll change our mind again. So that's one that we were highly AD dependent. But by the end of this year that will be different for next year because we've been making this shift, like to really lean into working and getting contracts instead of leaning on ads. So that's
one thing that it'll be different next year. And also too, like, you know, I'm not the CEO over there anymore, and there's a learning curve for the new CEO, and she just was thrown into this messy pot. And so you know, I told her because she's like Tam is very, very hard working and competitive, and she's like, oh no, I'm going to blow it out the water. I said, you won't. Instead, your job is just to keep us afloat because you're still learning. I have no expectation that you're going to
do better than me, because how could you? Because this would be a challenge for me who's been the CEO a CEO for fifteen years, let alone you just started. And so she realized it's really hard, you know, because there's so much, so many things that have to be realigned that were misaligned. And I'm like girl, and she's only done a great job of being kind of like our months are basically net net. We're making enough to cover all the bills, to pay all the payroll, blah
blah blah. But there's not excess, like you know, typically I take an excess as a draw, and so I haven't seen a draw like a decent one in a very long time, you know. But that's okay. My old old thing is always are we net net? Meaning like, do we make enough to cover everything and pay our bills and things that we had been able to do that? So I told her that was her goal, and she met that goal. And also too, there's just a shift in the economy, you know, rightfully, so people are looking
at their bills and determining what is essential. And I tell people all the time, don't give me your last like I've seen people say, take I got a credit card, but I don't believe it all that. Don't give me your last I have a lot of free resources and tools. As a matter of fact, I'm bringing back the Literature Challenges. I'm excited to launch the If you're like an old school dream catcher, you know, we did a challenge every January, and so we'll be doing a Literature Challenge, the Savings
Edition in January, totally free. It's a three week, free, amazing course that walks you literally day by day. I give you something small to do to work toward increasing your savings.
I'm excited for that.
Yeah, So I'm excited.
I just I was like the power of the Budgetista.
Yeah, and I missed that. And so I mean, honestly, the Academy's gonna be fine. We have been through way worths. This is nothing. I remember one time we was down to our last ten thousand and bills were thirty and so, you know, but because this is just the reality of business that as things shift externally and internally, you have
to pivot and shift. And this is not even the worst that we've ever been, you know, on a scale of one to ten of oh my gosh, we're in trouble ten being big trouble, you know, one being were good. I mean we're probably at a five, you know, maybe even a four, a four or five, meaning like I'm not worried about it because we have all these things in place that you know, we're just activating them now. So I'm just like, but it's you know, you have a plan. Yeah we have exactly for me as long
as we have a plan. But that's just the way of business. And so as a result of that is just there's a lot of shifting. But in opposite, the Budgetiesta has flourished like a damn butterfly. I mean it has like doubled doubled is revenue, and our profit margins are stupid, like honestly too high, to the point where I was like, I feel like we're not supposed to have eighty percent profit margins, you know, and technically you really shouldn't, you know, because that just means that's how
much you're paying in taxes. So it's like, do you need to hire more help? Are there other things you could purchase with the business? You know?
You want to keep budget? Needs to private plane, I know, you.
Know, but that's what people do because if not literally, It's like I much rather pay someone like on the team that money than to give it away as taxes. You know, does Logan need extra support you know what I mean? And are there raises? Maybe I can give her something. But yeah, the Bunchanisa has been slaying. So that's just the nature of business. You know, you learn to ride those rays. Those things I don't say, don't
worry me anymore. Like I would tell all my mentees, you know, you work hard, you're smart, you're consistent, You're gonna be all right. You just keep at it. So but yeah, oh chah my lide, pray for my thread. Oh before I forget today, this is gonna come out on Wednesday, Thursday morning. I mean, god willing, I do not have COVID because they come to test me. Tomorrow. I will be on Ryan and Kelly. Is it Kelly
and Ryan and Kelly. I've never been able to get better, I know, I know, yes, in studio, you know, so it's gonna be. I have to be there at seven thirty, so I'm assuming that eight eight am hours or eight or eight thirty, which is like.
The listen, this is the one morning show that I used to religiously watch Kelly and and then Kelly and Michael and now Kelly and Ryan. Anyway, it's at nine o'clock, okay, on an hour, so you're on the hour. Yes, and it's coming from whenever that show is GMA or whatever it is after yes.
So yes, so if you like, tune in wherever you are and watch. I mean, I've got god willing because honestly, if I'm if I have COVID, which I'm like, please Jesus, so the audience stuff, can I know, Kelly, I know, give.
Me a plus.
I never asked for anything I ask you for, they won't let Honestly, it is my Tracy is coming, like my my makeup artists can't even come, and then like I know, there's like so that they're like really, I mean rightfully, so they're wanting to make sure that everyone is like healthy and you can only so.
And then my my publicist from Penguin is coming. I think I'm only allowed to two plus ones. But but yeah, so I'm gonna be on God willing if you don't see me on you know, because they send someone to test you like two days before, so I get tested tomorrow. So if I got the VID. I'll be home weeping as someone else.
We've already been testing and it's negative, right.
Yeah, but at the home test, I'm just like, I'm hoping I'm doing it right. I've done it twice already because we have to test before we came on the trip together. So I'm hoping that this is just like me. I'm like, I hope I can just give them the flu not COVID. I hope I can just.
Give them.
Oh my god. Oh but we do have a guest today, thank god.
Yeah, we have a guest today. So Tiff is going to take a little breaky break, so that I can interview our illustrious guests for today. I'm really excited. I'm sorry that you won't get to meet him because he is amazing. But Christopher Rivas is a storyteller, professional storyteller. He's an actor, theater writer, and he has a new book that is coming out officially Tuesday the eleventh, so by the time you guys listen, you can purchase your copy.
It's called Brown Enough, and it is an incredible it's like part memoir. I was just reading a chunk of it, this chapter about student loans that you guys, won't hear me talk to Chris about because talk about being a successful Hollywood actor but also having two hundred and forty four thousand dollars of student loans, Like he goes there. Yeah, but I'm sorry, you won't get to me.
Correct I know, I am sorry. And then we have Baqa this week. But honestly, I'm probably like, oh, may if i'd be Aqa. But you guys will have Mandy obviously she's she knows all the things. But still keep because we we're gonna have guests, So we're not gonna have them this week as planned, but we'll have them next week. Until if you have your questions, keep dming us on Instagram. We have voice note questions because we cannot have weight to have you guys in the hot
seat asking your awesome questions. But no, but for real, I just like, I don't know, like I'm doing too much. I don't want to start piling back on again. Honestly, Madia, I'm nervous about that. Like the pylon. You know that, because the real work is there is the reaping, not sewing, meaning like as good things roll in, it's hard to figure out what to say No to, you know, and I feel like my body's like, well, girl, you've been
doing too much. That's why we're like this, you know, I really feel it, Like I'm just like this is not just a regular cold. This is also because you didn't sit you behind down cold, and so like that's I'm nervous about it. I don't want to go back to that, like I did all the things life. So I'm really really really trying to be intentional about like, let me look at my calendar again, what else can come off? Does this have to be on here? You know?
Does this have to be you know? Yeah, because like literally I'm about to get back into bed, have my tea and sleep until tomorrow morning. And hopefully when these people come to take my big test it says negative you will be regis, Yeah, I will. I will thank you. Not ready not reach No, look at me. I'm like, sorry, Ryan, sorry, it has been a minute. We can talk about age, we read just eat well.
I think it's just like an important message too that no matter you know, the things like we know about taking time and resting, but I mean everything is in a cycle, right, and I think it's just about recognizing like it is, right, now it's just gotten to be too much. So like doing a reset, and thankfully, I mean, you have systems in place to give yourself that reset. Yeah, you know, you just got to be the one to be like pull the plug, wors the escape patch. Yeah, get me out of here.
All right, y'all until next week. You're in good hands, Mandy, you know, like you're in good hands with all good neighbor.
Wait is that the neighbor one? Shit?
Wait, like a good neighbors? No, that's State.
Far Oh.
I thought it was the guy with the deep voice from CSI or whatever it was.
Now I think I want to say, that's all State. Maybe look at us, girl.
All right, I got y'all. Okay, I got y'all. Tiff get some rest. Sending you love. I can't wait. I'm going to be watching. I'm going to figure out how to get on, how to get someone's cable and watch. Hey, hey va, fam, it's mandra here riding solo. As you guys heard Tiffany, we wish her well. She is under the weather and without a voice, which you know, as
podcaster is a little bit important. But I cannot tell you, guys how excited I am to introduce you to if you're not familiar with this incredible talent already, Christopher Rives. He is joining us today. Although he usually is in LA doing big Hollywood things, He's in the New York Snitcher studio right now. I had the pleasure of getting to know Chris. God was it earlier this year and in the springtime when his team reached out to me to be a guest on his new podcast called Brown Enough,
which we're going to talk all about. But the real reason Chris is here is to talk about his brand new book. It's called Brown Enough. True stories about love, violence, the student loan crisis, Hollywood, race, familia, and making it in America. So you know, we're not covering just anyone's subject here. He is becoming one of the most sought after multi hyphenates. He's an actor, author, podcaster, storyteller. Like
I said, his new book Brown Enough. By the time, y'all listen to this episode, BA fan, get on over to Amazon dot com or Barnes and Noble or your independent bookstore of choice and purchase his book. We are putting a link in the bio or sorry, in the show notes, you can grab that. It's part memoir, part
social commentary. Honestly, it's like a rollercoaster while Chris talks about finding his true self while simultaneously having a racial awakening amidst the struggle to be the perfect LATINX, woke and brown person as possible to make it in today's America. So we're so so excited to have you here, Chris. Welcome bian Venia.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to chat with you again.
Oh I almost forgot to mention you're like really famous and stuff. You were on this Fox TV series called Call Me Kat, opposite everyone's favorite actress Blossom. Oh my god, my biolic? Did I say that right? Leslie Borden, Kylo Pratt, Shian Jackson. So we know you are a big Hollywood time actor, Chris, But I mean, I don't think it's possible to hear you speak about your career and not really just get the sense that you're not in it
for this Hollywood fame. You're really in it to be like a storyteller and to get your authentic stories across, which I was fortunate enough to get to see when you had your launch party for your first podcast Ruby Rossa which came out. Congratulations on that too. You're a busy guy.
Thank you. That's all done now so you can binge it. You haven't heard it, you can binge it. I shout the Dominican man James Bond's based on Yeah, so.
Ba fam knows all about it. I shouted you out when it first came out. And now your podcast, Brown Enough, which is in conjunction with this book. So tell us about this book, why the book and what can people expect from it?
Why the book and what can people expect from it? First the podcast Brown Enough, which you will be on. So just letting your people know, we have an incredible conversation. You know, that long title right with all the things and student loan in this and making it in America and Familia. When I was chatting with the publishers, they would sold them and I think you'll appreciate this, you know, finance and stuff, that whole title. What really sold them was oh, student loan crisis.
You're shitting me, really, that's.
Like that was their Like the people at Simon and Schuster were like, that's it. You know, they were like, race, I see it all the time. This da da da da, you know, but like student loan crisis, and and so that that sort of is that title, how that came into being? And the reason why now is because exactly
what you said, storytelling. I believe everything is a story, one we've been made to believe or chosen to believe, and knowing the difference is profound, and I think as bodies of culture, it is imperative that we take back our stories and we start unplugging from the stories about us what whiteness and society and capitalism has attempted to teach us about ourselves and our worth, what we're worthy of.
And so you are right, the Hollywood shine is not as nice to me as the ability to tell new stories and provide armor for young brown and black kids who also want to tell stories.
Yeah, I mean I in the portions of the book that I have been privileged enough to get to read, I wish I had a copy. But it says it's going to be here tomorrow. That's fine. I check the Amazon tracking, like when's the book going to get here? But in the portions that I've read, I just feel like any young brown teenager in America who picks up this book or if you know a brown teenager, which BA fan. You know, we know some brown teens out there. I feel like they would find interest or young in
their careers. It's really for everyone, but I just feel like you really see that person. I don't know if you were envisioning a certain reader when you were writing this, but it feels like a nice, warm, big bear hug to any brown kid out there who's not feeling like they belong. That was how I felt, and I sort of put myself at my young teen years when I was just I mean, had no idea where I belonged, trapped in between, you know, two different sort of identities
and socioeconomically and racially and even geographically, feeling torn. And I just felt really seen by a lot of the book.
That's well, thank you. I mean, the goal of my work in general is to create spaces of belonging and to allow people to feel seen, and so I'm glad you felt that way. It's funny when I was writing it, I don't actually think the irony. It's like the dedication reads this book is dedicated to all the little brown kids who need to see themselves grander and more vibrant.
But don't I see you. I hear you, we hear But I think when I was writing it, I don't actually know that I was writing it for like high schoolers or teens. And yet every day since we've been leading up to this book coming out out, I'm like, this needs to be high school required reading. Yeah, is what I needed when I was young, Like, that is the audience I want to have it. And so we made this incredible study and discussion guide that schools are getting.
And so if anyone listening is interested in that, you can just email the publisher at row House and they will send you this beautiful study guide we made.
I mean, how different when my high school experience have been if there was even one author of color on the list and not, let alone a book that really embraces that identity. So tell, folks, backing all the way back up to a little bit of your origin story, talk to our audience about what made when you say brown, what do you mean by that? Where are you from and how did you sort of what was your journey like coming into your own as a brown man in America.
Yeah, so my father's Dominican, my mom is Colombian. I grew up in Queens, New York. Queen's is one of the most diverse places in the world. I spent a lot of time in Jackson Heights, that is actually known as the cultural melting pot of the world. Everyone and their mother and everything is there, and so I think, without knowing it, that was extremely influential on me. I saw a brownness everywhere, and I struggled to think that
I was. I watched the boys on TV, and I knew I wasn't white and so called pretty like them.
You know.
I didn't see myself and yet I didn't fit like the you know, latinos on TV, and I wasn't Latin enough for some of the you know girls. I was trying to kick it too, and and I didn't know if I had where my home was. My best friend was Pakistani South Asian, like I was always trying to be seen and be accepted and fit in, which I think is a very human component of us, Like we want to find our tribe, and so that's been a
majority of my life is looking for my tribe. Fast forward many years and I'm an actor in Hollywood, which teaches you a lot about tribe and where you belong or where they try to tell you you belong and you have white managers who tell you to cut your hair or tell you to get a nose job right, to look more white, more passing, more Eurocentric. And then I go to see tanahase Coote speak and he's a genius,
brilliant man, and he's speaking about black and white. And I raise my hand and I say, well, as a Dominican Colombian kid from Queen's, where does that leave me in the conversation? And he said, not in it, not in an aggressive way, not in a just that's it is not in it? And I went home a bit shattered. Where am I? I've always felt like I wasn't in it? What does it mean to be in it? Where's my father? Where's my mother? You?
Mandy?
What's it mean to take up space? What does it mean to look at brownness in that whole middle space which is far more than skin color? Right, like in a world that is always this or that heishi yes, no fail, pass right wrong? What does it look like to live and embrace that middle space, to live outside of a box, to live outside of a binary. And so I wrote this book. This book has been a real reclaiming of my voice, and I hope it gives other people that same power.
Yeah, I find that really powerful. I mean, obviously ton Of Haseekost is a genius, but I've heard you tell that anecdote a couple of times, and I'm just like, Ah, there may have been a better way to praise that instead of like not in it, because I do feel like there's a room for all of it. But I completely get it. You know, at that moment in America when we're so talking about you know, the pain, the violence against black bodies and the Black Lives Matter movement
and all of that, and it belongs here. What I love is that you took that feedback and you were like, well, let's create a conversation that includes us, because I think that we all deserve to be included. It doesn't take away from the pain right of growing up black in America or the stories there. It's just it's not about
it's not a zero sum game. And I think that there's this there's this, especially in some of my conservative white families ideology, that there's this this idea that there's if one group is being focused on and being heard, that somehow it's taking away from like your own issues or what's important to you. But yeah, I just find that so so short sighted. And that's why I'm so excited to see a book like this even published, because traditional publishing, I mean, has not always been the kindest
to black and brown authors. So that is just a feat in and of itself.
And while I'm you do you want to tap into that thing? Sorry, that thing you said about there's a competition. It feels that way right, Like, Oh, they got their movie, where's my movie? Crazy rich Asians gets their movie, where's my movie?
Oh?
They got this show, where's my show?
Oh?
Heentified gets you know. Oh, the Mexicans get a show, where's my where's my show?
You know?
Oh?
Dominicans get Gordica chron where's my show? Where's my port? You know? Like, and that is something And I always say this, right, we don't win until we all win. And I will always quote James Baldwin, as soon as you put one person in the cage, you put everybody in the cage, White people included. Everybody's. Everybody's in this nasty stuff, and we're all suffering the same myths and lies that come with whiteness and capitalism and all of
that and systemic racism. Everyone's in it. And I really hope this book and my work challenges that, like we can all win, we can all celebrate each other. Just because they got up doesn't mean it takes away from you.
Thanks for saying that. So can we talk about well, one thing, I love the title of the book, Brown Enough. Obviously we're a show called Brown Ambition, and the reason we chose that title was really to highlight the ability of our people, black and brown people, to excel, to be ambitious, to be successful in spite of all the challenges. And we're going to kind of shift the conversations. I want to talk about the super sexy part of your
book where you talk about student loans. But the reality is that in this America, and you have a whole chapter in your book, I encourage you all to readcalled American.
But in this America, in order to succeed right and to excel, it comes at such a high cost if we choose the traditional routes, because I mean the traditional avenues for success, meaning higher education, are indescribably like shackling whole couple of generations now with black and brown people, with enormous student loan debt, and so it's like excel
and succeed on whose terms? Right? So can you talk a little bit about your student loan story and why that became such a central part of of your memoir of your book.
I think bodies of cultures access or lack of access to financial education from very early on, debt, loans, credit, compounded interest. You know, like, my parents didn't know this stuff to teach me because they were figuring it out, because they were they were caught up in this American dream, right, which says, go out and get this by any cost. Get the credit card, do this, get the house, get the mortgage, and what you show other people is what you are. They sort of struggle to be middle class.
And that American dream also sells you get the best education possible, but that doesn't do much to actually help you get that education. And then when you leave with all this debt, it's as if you were the idiot. You made the mistake. But you told me, you told me, you said, oh, go to the literally, you know, went to one of the best acting programs in the world. Go, don't worry, go, that's that's what you know. One of the first people in your family to go to college,
go do it. And so I go. And I have all this debt, you know, six figures of debt.
Can we share the number?
It's in your book, you can, It's in my book. It's the first line of my book. I have two hundred. I have two hundred and forty four thousand dollars in student loan debt. And no one knows this except everyone knows this now. Not even my parents know. They too now know, Oh my god. And somehow and all of that is compounded interest, right, like I owe more interest than the initial loans, and somehow, you know. I think student loans specifically really is a way of trying to
cripple people from making it. In the book, I talk about also rans in a horse race. One horse wins, but you need the also rants. You need the competition, you need the idea that they might win. That's what keeps people betting. And I think this society systemically wants also rans. We want more also rans than winners. So we sell them a dream, we sell them capitalism, we
sell them all this stuff they should go after. And only until we start to do the unplugging do we see why we're chasing the carrot dangling from our head that we didn't even put there. So student loans is a very big deal to me because I feel so blessed and lucky that every day, somehow I got to make it work till the point where I could finally start paying them back. I got to scheme in Machavelli my way to the point where it didn't cripple me
and break me, and it almost did. I lived in my car for a year, you know, like I did all this stuff. I did anything I could to still be able to be an artist, sort of praying that one day I would get to this point. And there is a bit of luck right. My favorite tweet is the gofund me, you know, cool website to support friends, and then twenty twenty, it's like that was when it launched, and then twenty twenty the backbone of the American healthcare system.
And it's not just you either. It's not just our kids who were taking on these six figure student loan debts. I mean you you open up about your family is co signed those loans signers. It's not just your mom and David, you or your uncle.
You got your uncle, oh, good to you.
But I mean, in all seriousness, it's like it's not just about the kids. It's often like even the adults, you know, our parents, who because these loans are so enormous, you have to have a co signer. And so this whole like idea that oh, it's just ignorant eighteen year olds who were doing this and they should have known better and if only someone would have told them, we all need more education, you know, like at the like adults,
all of that. But how has that now that obviously you're able to start paying that those loans back, was there damage to your relationships because of the co signing or like, what's your what's the conversations around that now with your with your family who was nice enough to co sign those loans for you?
Yeah, I want to go back to like my my mom was born in Columbia, right, she didn't get to go to college. Like I really want to put that on our understand our generation and where our families come from. My dad didn't go to college. And so when their son gets into all these colleges and he sits on the couch crying because he knows his parents can't afford it. But they love their son and they love like, oh, we worked this hard to allow our son to even
have this opportunity. We worked two jobs. Those two jobs got us a house. This, this, this, to give him this opportunity, we have to do whatever it is. And then as a family, we sit down and read sixty pages of gibberish with no education, as if we're supposed to understand what we're signing into. But what we're signing into is that dream. You know, my parents trying to
give me everything they never had. And that's so many families, right, It's not the ignorant eighteen year old, it's it's the families, it's society. It's so much is in this one idea of a student loan, of an education that costs absorbant amounts of money. How has that affected our relationships? It? Thank god, it hasn't, you know. I feel lucky. I don't think this is everyone's situation except maybe my uncle.
My uncle hated the phone calls and was always calling me and always, always, always always calling me, and he was worried and he was scared. You know, they call a lot. I got the calls, my dad got the calls. That's why I went to get a PhD. Right, Like, everything I did was like I'm gonna just keep like, let me and roll back in school, right, figure out a way to do this, figure out a way to do it, figure out a way to pause, to pause.
Pause the loans pause them. But at the end of the day, I really did have whether they admitted or not, I don't know. That's how I take it. I had people in my life who believed in me, you know,
and I'm glad they did. And I'm really again, it's just there's an overall gratitude because I know so many people who didn't get to be artists, who didn't get to be what they wanted to be because they had to work three or four jobs to start paying back their loans, which are sometimes more money than their rent.
Yeah, or even artists who are afraid or hear the you know, hear a story like yours and then don't see another way like don't see you like, are too afraid because they're worried about settling themselves with debt. I think about myself as a writer growing up and thinking, well, I'm going to study journalism because you know, I had these dreams of being a writer and like writing novels
and maybe writing plays. But for me, I was like, well, I need to make money because ain't nobody come in to save me or you know, help me with this life. So it's almost that pressure like do we do something sensible, you know? Or do we follow our dreams? And you know, it's and I also feel like it's that in between, like there's not it's not black or white in that way.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. But like hopefully stories were like yours, I hope won't make people afraid to pursue their ambitions if it's like to be an artist and whatnot, but maybe just to like look for other you know, other avenues, other programs, other other ways to do it without having to immediately just like sign up for all those loans? Would you agree? Or how do you feel about it? Yeah?
I mean that's how I end the chapter, right Like if a young person asked me if I should go to college today, I would quote, you know, I quote the poet Maggie Smith and her poem good Bones. Any realtor taking you through a real shithole will chirp on about the good bones. This place has good bones. She says this place could be something one day. And I reference that poem because I think it's important to know when you're walking into a shithole and to know about
the good bones. And I just want all children. And this is why I think the education of finance and opportunity and options is so important. Very young to say, you know, there's community college and they're actually quite good.
You know.
Like, I'm not anti education, I'm anti the cost of education. And I want to be really clear about that. Going to college was one of the greatest times of my life. I mean, I think it really made me who I am today, especially that school. I value the education in the community like and I want everyone to have that opportunity. But I also want them to challenge and be aware that asking a young person to take out loans that size is criminal and I really want them to be
aware of that. And I didn't understand it. I did not have that education, I did not have that language. And so I'm not anti education, I'm anti the exportment cost of education.
This is why we need this book to like require reading for high school students. This is like the prime opportunity get them before they make the same you know decisions. I love that. Okay, So sort of just to tie the conversation up, talk a little bit about I mean, I think I know pe we are probably curious and we've had questions from listeners who are in the arts.
So what's your advice to young or maybe not even young, because I don't want to be ageous, but anyone out there who's dreaming of pursuing a career, and let's talk about theater maybe or film, whatever you consider to be your primary focus, right, because you do a little bit of everything, what advice do you have to people who are wanting to get a career in the arts and make it successful.
Yeah. So, I think being an artist is one of the most important positions in society and in the world. This is why when a dictator comes in, the first thing they get rid of the lawyers and the like. Artist artists have an ability to speak on what is, to call out the good bones and the shit all
at once. And so anyone who's young or old, or middle or something who's thinking about being an artist, one I'd say you already are you know, and you're an artist regardless of this sort of success or so called blah blah blah blah. You achieve you are an artist
and you need to be an artist. Now, whether the conversation is do I have to go to school in order to be this painter and store to study fine artists, or to study theater or to study writing, I would just invite you to consider what are the other programs out there? Is it better? Is this a field where you can just go in and start doing the work.
I will say this, like, I you know, I worked a lot in New York when I was a kid, and then I stopped acting and I moved to Miami and I was like a personal trainer on South Beach, and I knew I wanted to act again. It like really it really hit me. But I knew I wanted to go to school. I knew I really really really wanted to study it because I like I loved it and I lacked an intimate knowledge of its history and
where it came from. I thought about, like, let me just move to La, let me I got, let me save this money and let me move to LA and just try and figure it out. But I wanted to study it, and I'm just so be the artist. We need you, We need you be the artist you are. We need you. And if you want to go to school, really just test the waters, test your options, consider it. And if you think you're like this is it. I want to do this. I want to do this for
forty to sixty thousand dollars a year. Great, take that journey, you know, but you're going in consciously and that's what's really important.
Yeah, and even getting a mentor, like someone who's been there a little bit like bind you a Chris Reebus out there. I mean like that could be crucial, like having someone who can sort of share their experience before. Yeah, you make that huge investment. Okay, Chris? Do you think you're Brown enough? Is that the open end? Is there a question at the end of this for the book?
Is there a I am enough? So at some point I think we move beyond brown? Right? Like brown? Is this invitation to think about the middle space in all of your life, what it means to use your voice, what it means to take up space, what it means to cast a spell of self worth and really, which then evolves to I am enough just as I am, I am enough, just as I am with what's in my bank account, with what I'm wearing with my skin, color, with my hair, with my questions about whether I want
to be an artist or not. Like, right here, right now, I am enough, and I can begin from this place of fullness rather than a place of lack and less. And I need to go after this in order to be enough. And so I hope the book ends for others the way I actually think it. You know, in days and granted it's a spectrum, right Like, there are days where I'm like, yeah, I'm here, i am enough, I am Brown enough, I'm enough, I'm Revis enough, I'm Chris enough. You know, I'm like, I'm enough. And then
there are days where we're still in the matrix. So the matrix hits you hard and you don't feel so much enough. But it's ideally about transcending past, you know, brownness fitting in Latin on this Latini that x E like blackness and just saying I'm enough because this whole world is trying to tell you you're not, but you are.
That's beautiful. We thank you for creating a work of art and a real gift. I feel like to anyone out there who's been struggle, whether you're struggling with your identity now or you have in the past. I think it's just a welcome reminder that you can be enough and that you're not the only one going through it. So again, ba fam, y'all have to pick up Chris's book. It's called Brown Enough, sold wherever you can find books. What else can we plug? Check out your new book, I'll tell brown Enough.
I'll tap into what you said about publishing. Yeah, since nineteen fifty and y'all can look this up in the New York Times did a beautiful article on it. Only five percent of books published since nineteen fifty have been by non white authors five percent. And so if you're one of those people listening, which I imagine you are, who's like, I like diversity, equity, inclusion. I want everyone
to have a chance five percent. That means we have to be conscious about what we're reading, absorbing, picking up, listening to whose art? Are we listening to? Whose podcast? Who's this? And one of the ways we do that is we support especially in publishing. You got to buy the book, you know, and if it's not mine, awesome, but go buy somebody's. Go get you a bell Hooks, Go get you a Julius had to say, go get you something you.
Know likedne eliche.
Yeah, there you go, go get you one. Please do that is by a body of culture, please.
Because there Hell yeah, if your book does well, it makes it easier for the next Chris, for the next meet because I'm working on a book too.
It makes it easier for first well, it raised it one percent, you know, and then one percent and then one percent.
There is a room for all of us, right It feels that way to me. There's a room for all of us. Christopher Riva, thank you so much for joining Brown Ambition and sharing some of your light with us. I so appreciate it, friend.
I appreciate you. Thank you very much. I love your hair right now.
Oh thank you?
Oh damn.
I didn't even get to talk about the anecdote with the clothes pin on the nose. Oh ye, would you like a quick outtake? Is that for real?
Yeah?
Aunties were telling people to put clothes pins on their nose.
Oh yeah, all the time. Make it straighter the play when we do the play, and I do that because we hide it in the audience and everyone gets one. I get so many. I mean it for some people it's funny for some people, it's heart breaking, right, I guess so many people who say, man, my grandma told me to do the same thing, my mom told me to do that, my dad told me to do that.
Wow, all the time, I mean, I thought the whole chemical in your hair to make it straight. That was the That was very painful. Okay, I still have the scars, but the clothes pin, like, oh my god, it would have taken much more than a clothes pin for this schnauztuk anywhere. I can't imagine, Oh my god. Yeah, well for that anecdote and others. Y'all got to check out the book. But thank you Chris again for joining.
Thank you. I appreciate all of you.
Hey ba fam, we could not do this show without your support or the support of our team behind the scenes. The Brown Ambission podcast is produced by Cumulus Podcast Network. It's edited by the wonderful Imani Crosby and produced by Tanya Bustos. Dennis Stimplinsky is our in house tech guru, and I am Bandy Woodrid Santos your co host, and I will see y'all next week.