Ep 309: The Other Side Of Entrepreneurship

But I got to float. I even did like the mud mass because the Dead Sea, the mud is supposed to be so full of minerals. If you have sense of skin, don't do that. You can't tell it right now because I'm extra chocolate. Yo, I am broken out like a fourteen year old. Don't do it, don't do it. But still very epic.

swim in the Red Sea, which was interesting. It's not really red, it's just that the water is so clear that there's a lot of red coral. So when the sun shines sometimes it reflects back red. We spent the night in a Bedouin camp in the desert. I rode a camel. I sent Mandy camel pictures.

wanted to protect their city. So on one side seems like a mountain if you're an invader, but on the other side of the mountain they carved out this beautiful city carved so you get like five six story buildings that are carved into rock, and it was just so epically beautiful. It just it was breathtaking. And so yeah, I just had such an amazing, amazing I.

even wore before I had a baby. But anyway, so I had these really cute heels, a whole luke that I put together, and the red carpet line was about forty minutes long, and there was like down these random, like downpours of rain. So we were like huddling under these little tents and umbrellas, and I don't know why it didn't occur to me to take my heels off and just kind of barefoot it until it got.

the Literature Academy. And collectively those two companies at their peak maybe had twenty to twenty five employees. And well, I'm using the words employees loosely, maybe like seventeen employees and then the rest contractors. But we treated our contractors just as well as we treated our employees. So we just considered everybody like you know, family and so so during like I said, pandemic, people are losing their jobs, not us. Thankfully, we were already like a digital company.

So we did make some transition shifts to make it easier for people to work at home, especially the mo We were like, okay, this is when drop office, this is when pickups are. We're not going to have meetings during those times. Anyone who knows who's worked with me before, like we gave we set aside. We had a bonus pool, so five percent of our net profit, so profit after expenses,

we set aside for the team. So during twenty twenty we had a huge, like really great strong year, and so the average bonus was like five thousand dollars people were making some people made five figure bonuses, you know, and so you know, things were all good. We've never been laid on a payment, you know. We go on

vacation every year where we pay for everything. We fly everybody out, no matter where you live, as long as it's in the US, and I really try to create like a loving, caring environment because one of my goals was not just to serve as many black women and brown women externally, but was to also create an amazing environment environment internally. And so I think I would say, because I'm not just saying that, but that we did

a good job of that. But I know only because we had just done a survey about a year ago, like how am I doing as a leader, and across the border was like and these are anonymous surveys. So I set that up to say that. After Durrell passed away, I just I couldn't even pick my head up, you know, like it was there were some holes that I realized in my own leadership, like I had not thought about you know, how you create an estate plan for your personal life. I did not have an estate plan for

the business because you didn't think about that. So what happens when I cannot physically be here and do and as a result, it kind of went haywire, And so I had people making choices on my behalf that were not the best choices for like the company. So literally Darrell was in the hospital and I had just found out that he wasn't probably going to make it, although

he was his body was physically there. And I had to have a team meeting because it was a shit show, and I was like, I don't even I can't save both, like you know, and it was just so overwhelming, but I wanted so I remember, I was like, look, whatever decisions haven't made are voided. I don't even know. I don't know what's going on, but everything is voided. I will not make any choices until this is in November. When I said this, I said until after February. I

promise you everything will stay the same. Because I asked the finance at GARCFO, do we have enough money to last us until February and she said yes, And I said, fine, I won't make any choices until then. Just try not to destroy everything, like damn, I just need a moment, you know. And it was just so hard, but I was like, I can't. I can't be Tiffany the budgetista right now, you know. Like, so I made that promise, and sure enough, you know, everybody was able to stay.

But I did say things are going to shift. I don't know in what way, because I don't know what I'm going to be able to do and to be all the way transparent. All this is not good business, and please do not do this. But the Literature Academy paid me, but I was the lowest paid person on like the main team. I only got paid after, like I got an owner's draw, after every single thing was paid, all the savings was saved, and if there was no excess after myself and my business partner did not take

a draw. You know, I want to say, the literature account me paid me like fifty four thousand dollars a year. I mean, we had people making well into the six figures. So of the lead team, I was making the less by a lot, you know, like the less by half. But I said that's okay, because when we have a really good month and my owner's draw can overcompensate for that, and then we don't have a good month, then I

don't deserve to make anything. And then the BUDGENISA. It was worse that with the BUDGETISA, I had not got paid any money in I want to say five or six years. I'm talking about owner's draw, I'm talking about even payroll. It was to the point where my accountant was like you're gonna get audited, Tifnany, please auto me because having a business that doesn't pay you looks like you have some sort of like drug.

We're I'm not a big spender. So with what I did have, I learned to invest and save, so I was still able to grow wealth despite not taking maybe taking one tenth of what maybe a normal CEO would have taken from their business. So one business didn't pay me at all, even though it was you know me, and then the other business pay me significantly less. But even through that, I was still able to grow, you know, my net worth to seven figures. So that's why I never felt I didn't do this to be a martyr.

I did it because I said, Tiffany, you still have more than you ever even imagined, you know, So all of that to say, I really tried hard to be a really good boss, and then Darrell passes away and I just fall apart. I just literally I didn't even want to be here. I was just like it was the hardest. I mean, I mean, anybody who's lost anybody

that they're close to, you know. And so after February happened, we didn't really have the funds, you know, one the budget needs to certainly, I didn't know what the future helped, because I was like, I cannot do all that I used to work like all the time. I cannot continue to work at that pace anymore. So as a result, we're not going to make what we used to make,

you know, in order to support everybody. And then with the Literature Academy, you know, I'd stepped down a CEO, and I knew that as a result, he was going to take Tamras our new CEO, who she was there the day I opened the Academy door. Tamra has been there, so she's not somebody new, but I knew it was going to take her time to get her sea legs as a CEO, so we would see a drop in income. So as a result, we had to let some folks go, you know, and not a little bit like you know,

probably about half the team. And it wasn't done easily. And I was not in a space to have those conversations because you know, you have to talk for a while. But I said, when I get back from BALI maybe I want to be in a space to call everybody, which is where I am now. And just to kind of come back to the reaction that from some of the folks that we've had to let go, it's really

some of it was kind of nasty. And I was like, folks, who you know that, I mean, all the bonuses, the raises, and you didn't go buy Sometimes you would get a raise, it would be forty percent. We would double your income, all of the trips, all of the I mean, I don't think I make a good CEO because quite honestly, I'm not firm enough. People would would be building their own businesses and I would support it. I would help

that we would use our platform. Things that we would charge fifty to one hundred thousand dollars are email, Twitter, social media, where we would do this thing called Unicorn Spotlight because I called my team the Unicorn Squad, where I would place you on all of our platforms and promote your business and people would get tens of thousands, if not one hundreds of thousand dollars worth of business

as a result. These are people on my team. So all of that, and then to the point where some people were growing so much that they weren't even doing their job, Like it would be like they're not present anymore, you know, even though they were getting like my employees by by bye last year or the year before, you know, not only did you get your full time salary, we also were able to give insurance for when K plan a matching program, all of that, and so because my

husband passes away and I can't dance for you anymore, there's this like visceral backlash that makes me say, like I don't know, like not I don't regret the doing, because I believe that that's the right thing to do, but it's just like I see why people don't want to do stuff, don't want to do stuff, you know, because I'm just like, there's no grace in space for that. Literally, there are people on the team I'd never heard from, Mandy.

There are people like your dog couldn't pass away without me sending you flowers, you know, like if you were getting married, we would we would get something for your wedding. I mean, we would have baby showers for people. And there are people who I know I should have fired sooner rather than later because they weren't doing the work. They weren't in slack, they were so busy working on their own businesses. They couldn't be here that like we

didn't let them go. Conversation after conversation, years of that of me like kind of turning the other cheek and saying, well, what can we do? Can we work around your schedule? And to say like, you know, I'm sorry, but you know in order, like I can't. I can't do all the things I used to do before that supported everybody. It was like I thought we were family, you know, like I sacrifice for you, and I'm just like, well and I appreciate that, and I sacrifice for you as well.

I guess it's just like what, I don't know, it's just so hard because I'm just like, because I'm trying to take grace and space to say, I know how hard it must be to lose your job but I'm also like, damn, I don't get any grace in space, like I'm not out here. I didn't let you go because I don't feel like like my husband fucking died, Like what does it take? Do I have to die for you to be like? Well, now, maybe I can understand why Tiffany couldn't keep me, like what does it take? Honestly?

But you know what it did teach me is that the people who that was their reaction. I said, I thought maybe maybe I had made a mistake for certain people, but I'm like, you know what, I didn't. I didn't because if that is how you treat someone who has poured into you, and at my lowest and worse moment, when I've never not shown up for you, then quite honestly, you know you deserve to be gone. There are literally people who did not have the skill set, did not

have the education. We had grown beyond the skills that they brought to the table, But we kept them anyway and found positions and continue to pay and continue to get raises. You know, but you know that's really my fault. That's why I said, Tam, it's going to make a much better leader than I am as a CEO because I I'm too soft, you know, and I you know I should have. I thought I was being kind, but I wasn't that clear is kind, and I should have been clear and stood up for the boundaries that I'm

now I don't do those things anymore. And you know, like I said, it's just like some of that feedback. I'm just reading like some of the emails that I've received, and I'm just like, Wow, Jrell ain't been dead five months, since you've been here for years, taking advantage he had been dead five months. And that's how you speak to me. These are people literally that I have said so much business to and if I go on their websites and stuff, guess who's logos on there? As this is who I

work with. You know what I mean. I'm like you still eating off budget? Needs to plate? Okay, So here's the thing, Like people have to be careful because it's not the same Tiffany as before that you can keep my logo because you did work here on your website. You can let my name slip from your lips. But be careful because if someone comes and says, I'd like a recommendation, or do you think that I ought to

work with them. I'm going to be fully honest about, you know, the experience I've had, so feel free to use me. But also know that people behind the scenes reach out to me to ask, you know, how is it working with this person? And I don't believe in like, I'm not retaliating in any way if you were great, because there are a handful of people that were honestly really great and we just had to let them go

because we just didn't have the bandwidth anymore. There are definitely people who are like that who I'm just like, Sis, I got you, you know, but there are some people that know that they did not show up, you know, that they left us high and dry, and then you know, they followed it up with nastiness. People who I didn't even hear from, who like you know, Jerrell passed away and not a peep except for when it was time to be like Sis. Unfortunately we don't have that role anymore.

Well what about my money? I'm like, wow, So I don't know, girl, It's just honestly just makes you just want to like throw the blanket over your head. I know I'm doing a lot of talk to me, but I'm just like it just really like I'm not gonna lie. It really hurt my feelings and I just was just like, yeah, it's like what did I do wrong? You know, like I don't even know, but yeah, So, I mean, if you're listening to this YouTube used to work for me, you know, pass hope all as well.

I'm not surprised that you encountered it, only only because you know, humans are humans, and they are grieving and they and they haven't had a place to maybe put that grief or they don't have.

the greater perspective of there'll be other opportunities. I mean, I talked about this when you first initially were so candid and honest about you know, the layoff set Literature Academy, just about the overall picture that they got to work for an incredible company with the black female CEO and what a privilege that is, and the you know, and like you just laid out, you know, all of those things. But sometimes if they're so if they're so steeped in that fear of resentment, grief of their.

you know, so somebody who they'd known. But it's just you know, so I just don't know what I could have done differently, because it's just like, do we all sink do we just destroy the company? I just you know, I just but to your point, everyone is allowed to grieve because they're grieving as well, you know, And it's not everybody. Honestly, there were people who did a great job, and I just felt really bad that we had to let them go just because it just wasn't the position

we had or could afford anymore. So there are certainly people who it wasn't anything they did. It was just this is where we are now. But yeah, it just like, honestly, it just I don't want to be in that position anymore. It just made me realize I'd made the right decision because it's me Rose and Logan over at Budgetista and when I tell you, but also to the lesson, you know,

this is just for anyone listening. This is like something even a lesson that I'm going to be sharing with my mentees soon, is that there are some people on the team that if I'm being all the way candid, I said, no matter what, keep them because they did what I call illustrate your Oprah. So I mean, I don't know if this is still true, but like let's just say Oprah said, you know, hey, Mandy Tiffany, you know we for ten thousand dollars. You know, I'm going

to connect you with all of my business connections. You know, I'm going to help you, you know, showcase Mandy your new bug, Tiffany, whatever that is. Me and Mandy would come up with that ten thousand dollars because Oprah, we see her value so clearly that we know that ten thousand dollars investment is going to yield way more back. And that's why I called illustrating your Oprah, like so

clearly illustrating how valuable you are. And there are people on the team that I was like, I don't know what we're going to have you do when it all shakes out, but the value you bring is so compellingly obvious that I need you to still be here. And so it's a lesson in that when you bring excellence to the table, a space is always made for you. Now here's the thing. Sometimes that company it really doesn't have the money, but let's just say you were so amazing.

I mean, the people I know in this industry, the even outside of this industry, A phone call is easily made to place you someplace else easily because the value you've brought is so strong that either I will find the money to keep you or I will find a place for you because I know what you bring to the table, and there are people who what phone call? Why would I make that phone call?

being all the way honest, I allowed it. But then when the going gets tough, you get to see we have to cut the fat, and it's just like, wait me, yes, because you didn't bring value to the table in a way that will allow me to keep you or in a way that allowed me to place you someplace else, because I, like I said, I know people who have huge businesses, huge platform that are looking for certain talent that they're only a handful of people that I'd be like,

I would send somebody there. So I think that's just a lesson too. It's like when I said I came back to like all those contracts, you know, I didn't know what I was going to come back to. I thought maybe the budgetista is done, you know, and everybody who wanted to work with me last year. I was like, honestly, I don't have it. I don't know what I'm going to come back, but I just and ninety five percent of them said I'll wait, and they did wait, and I was able to extend the contract later and keep

the business going. And so I think that's a testament to illustrating your OPRAH. So for those of you who were maybe experiencing job loss, you know, continue to illustrate your OPRAH, and a space will be made, if not at that company, somebody else. Like look at Mandy. She went from like what how do you let me go? To how is chicken a game? We're on her own chain? No? Please, because one year, don't even do it. Don't let Mandy be gave my nether day and one year, girl, Mandy

is literally six years ahead of seat of schedule. She might not see it, but I see it as somebody who grew from scratch, like she's going from scratch. She is six years ahead of schedule because her Mandy brings excellence to the table. She illustrates her value. So clearly, look how far ahead she's been able to leap in one year. So even if a space is not help for you, you'll be able to make a space for yourself.

And so Mandy can always bank on herself because of the excellence that she consistently brings to the table, and so nobody can't take that away from you. So I you know, if you work for me and I wasn't able to keep you and you're excellent, you will find someplace else that will be You know, you'll be able to say. There's one woman in particular, she's excellent. She asked me, could I write her a letter of recommendation. I sure did. She already has a new job because

she was excellent. It's just that that wasn't a role that we could fill anymore. So the shady part of me wants to be like, so if you haven't heard from me, there's a reason for those you have. I'm sorry, Sis.

and help them find their next opportunity. This is why as individuals we have to be so laser focused on our brand, our professional brand, our skill sets, like you said, are excellence and how are we how are we you know, growing?

How are we developing so that we can be the person that people want on their teams that they and so you have unlimited opportunities always, And that's why I have been able to go into business fearlessly because it's like you said, like there is those skills that I know I can fall back on and and good good, you know, no burned bridges that I can think of.

is terrifying. And I know we've talked like TIF, you've talked about your struggle with having those difficult conversations and how you know you're continuing to work on that. But this experience, I mean not that I ever want to say. Of course, we would all want to rill back a million times over versus this, but you know, the growth as a business owner, this this this growth that we're all getting to witness. You're in the middle of it.

You're going to be a more so much better, and you're open to learn, You're open to saying here's what I would do differently, and that I think is what separates great leaders. And you may say never again, no ceo ever again, but you won't. That's not your last great business. I mean, I just come on, you're Tiffany like you will create and it'll be better and better next time, the next time and next time.

not undershooting to self deprecation. And I'm like, okay, because sometimes we think humility and like, Okay, I'm trying to hump, I'm trying to be kind. Means that like we take we take a step all the way back, and she's like, no, it's taking up the exact amount of space. So in this moment, I mean, I know I'm angry or whatever, but honestly, really the anger is just spent, is just

it's just it's really just me. I'm just sad, honestly, you know, like I'm sad, and so I just I want to get a better framework of like where could I have done better? But also what not to pick up because I know that I have a tendency to be like I should have done this, I should have done this. I can understand that, and not to give myself my own grace in space to be like, well, yes, yes, maybe those things are true.

because I do, you know. But yeah, to your point, I know, I nobody knows it's going to.

was the scenario going to be like? And so like, No, I just appreciate that, Like I know doctor Green is going to read me gently for filth Life girl stop, which I don't.

But I love Brene Brown. She has this podcast called Dare to Lead, named after her book and her her leadership training that she does and this most recent episode made me think of you because Brenee Brown is stepping down as CEO of her business, Yes, and she talks about it, and the things that she was talking about reminded me of you, and the compassion that she's having for herself and her sister. She's named two co CEOs in her place, so it took two CEOs to do what.

all of that. So she's built this big business with you know, dozens of employees and they have facilitators doing these trainings around the globe, you know. So it's a

big company that she's built. And you know, from someone who is a social worker, you know, as a preschool teacher, I feel like, that's part social worker in a way, and she in the show opens up about bringing her They bring everyone back to their headquarters for an all hands after the pandemic, and she's like, and one of the things that I love that she talks about is how in her All Hands she specifically said, we need to reintroduce ourselves to one another. And none of us

is the same. We've all we are different. Let's not as not business as usual, we are fundamentally different. The pain, the grief, the suffering that we've gone through, you know, and what do we look like now? And how do

we show up to work now? And she's taking she also announced she's taking a fourteen week sabbatical, like step down a ceo, taking fourteen weeks off because that's the level of burnout that she's gotten to, and giving her employees four weeks paid vacation off this summer as well, and just to acknowledge, She's like, this is the bravest

thing we've ever done, which is to step away. Yeah, And anyway, I think that that's that reminded me of you too, because I do think that there are CEOs out there who get to that or end up there and it all feels right, and then you realize, Okay, this is actually not what I need or for me, And then that inconvenience isn't hurt some people maybe, But what's the.

lost something. They lost something too. You know. There's a level of grief that folks who were not at a place where I'm assuming they love to work and I love the people that they worked with like to lose that that is a that is a great loss as well, you know, and there's a grieving process for that as well. So to leave, I can't ask for grace and space and not also extended you know. Yeah, it's like protecting

your heart too. And I do think it was like incredibly generous of you to talk to them and give them a space to let go of some of that anger if they wanted to. But it's just like so what you don't internalize it don't let it stay there in you.

those and also being a parent. The chronic stress of that, how we end up to a place where we're spiraling, where not all the self care in the world can save us, because it's like the chronic nature of it, the day after day after day, and not like sitting with and acknowledging those feelings and emotions. So it's really a book about emotions and how to like move through them so that you don't end up in that space of deep burnout where you're just nothing I do is working.

I'm not being effective, you know. I you know, it's a really I'm looking forward to finishing this book.

Just because this is just because my intention was not to hurt doesn't mean people didn't feel hurt, you know. So it's like two things can be true at one time, you know, and so like just acknowledging that, like, okay, like people are allowed to feel that. I don't have to internalize it, you know, I can say, Okay, yes, it would not have been ideal. And obviously I would love for Drill to be here and I would continue to be the regular tifany I was before, but that's

not where we are. So no, this was honestly, this was because I was debating whether or how much to share and how much to be transparent. And you know, I'm certain, like I said, like, I know some of my current employees and past employees have you know, listened to the podcast. But honestly, the truth is is nothing that I have not either shared. Well, there are a handful of people who I have not called because honestly they did nothing, like you know, we needed to fire

them some time ago. So you know, they were fortunate to be able to ride the wave for as long as they did, and they know and they they don't know, well greing her here for me, you know now. But you know, for those people who like, you know, I really reached out to because I'm just like, dang, you know,

I wish things could be different. I you know, it's a learning lesson and you're right, maybe one day, but for now, child, it's a lot like and I'm hoping I'm sharing this and being as transparent because most people in business, they will share either their wins or their semi losses, not like this. This huge, like I don't even want to call it a loss but challenge, And I just want this for you to see. This is also part of leadership that like, you're not gonna make all

the right choices. There are gonna be people who are gonna be really upset because they're like I was using that money to fund my college fund for my kid, or you know, it's not I don't take it lightly like someone losing that income. And so these are things that you're just like, but I don't know what else

I could have done. But you know, I just want you to see that sometimes there is no there is no right answer, is just learning and this is what part of like entrepreneurship looks like that, like, you know, for those who get to a point where they can hire people, you know.

you're doing it. The way it was bad. The way down was worse because you're down the steep incline on ancient steps. I was like, I don't know. The donkey was like, girl, look if I go down, you go down to So I would not suggest it. I should have just walked in the hundred degree weather. But yeah, that was the donkey. I mean, the camera was That's how you know it had to be bad because the camera was much easier than a donkey. Yeah, that Moore donkey.

Donkeys are like, girl, I was not put on here to carry your behind up these steps.

We had a little like a candlelight vigil just in the middle of our neighborhood, and I did find that you know something, because there's there's nothing you can do but just love each other and support one another. But on top of that, there was some shenanigans in the news and a couple of things. I was toggling between, should we talk about Walmart's June teenth red velvet flavored ice cream or could we talk about Wells Fargo uggin proving they are the worst, the worst, the worst.

of color, in keeping with an informal policy. And then these people noticed that they would be interviewed for a job that had already been promised to something to someone else. And when this wilso blow or spoke out, shout out to mister Bruno, who was fired, and he says that Wells Fargo did fired him in retaliation because he was going around saying these fake interviews are inappropriate, morally wrong, etc.

not my favorite at all. But you know, once you have a certain sized business, it's hard to do like the smaller banks, just because there's certain things that you just need, you know, and so but yeah, we were with them for years and just every time you turn around, you're just like the worst of the worst of the

worst of the worst. Wells Fargo is actually my first because before it was Wells Fargo, it was called like Jakovia before WAKOVI was called something else, and so I was with the bank before the bank, before the bank, like it was my first bank account. I forget what it was called, like the actual like first whatever the bank was called before, and then it became like something else and became WACOB, then became Wells Fargo. But I was with that bank four banks back. So this was like,

you know, my very first bank account. And I'm like, sis, y'all are just even though I have like twenty thousand bank accounts and it took like so long to switch everything over. I said, I can't a counts.

And so, you know, I didn't realize, but the person who was who was hosting the trip the tour, he himself was a flight attendant. And so ninety percent of the people who were on this tour, maybe like twenty or so people, maybe like fifteen, they were all flight attendants. So ninety percent. There was maybe like just a handful of us that weren't like three or four. So they all knew each other, you know. I was like, oh, they all flew with the United and I was like, okay.

So it was so interesting how different the conversation is with people who travel, you know, it was and it just set a tone for me that said that, because on the outside, if you didn't know what they did for a living, you would have thought, because of the type of conversations, that everybody was independently wealthy. Because the conversation for ever want something like this, Oh, you know, I really want to get you know, braces or something like my my veneers or whatever it is. You know what,

go to my guy in Vietnam. He's amazing. You know, I just feel like I'm like I'm getting a little older, I'm getting sun spots. Oh, I've got that the best guy. He's in India. Literally, people had a skin person in India. They're dentists in Vietnam, their doctor in Colombia. So they

sounded like these independent, very wealthy pash people. And not to say that, you know, as frightens you to make good money, but you know that's a like a good regular person job, you know, And it just had it just kind of like a light bulb went on in me. Is that oftentimes we say we can't have a certain

lifestyle because we're because honestly, our thinking is limited. If you're someone who's like I would really love to travel the world, you honestly don't have to necessarily wait until you're this millionaire that there are alternative careers that allow you to do that, you know. And so because they were telling me, like for example, you know, like maybe my flight was like you know, twelve hundred dollars round

trip to Jordan. But because they're flight attendants and they get discounts or sometimes you just pay if you plug flights stand by, maybe you just pay taxes. It was like under two hundred dollars for them, and so it

just made it that much more affordable. So it just I just think that, you know, so many of us get locked into you know, it's almost like first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes the baby, the baby carriage, and it's like, well, you know you can actually have a baby whenever you want, Well, you know you can actually, you know, there are so many alternatives to get the

end desired goal that you're wanting. So I'm hoping that I say all that to say for you to just expand your mind and ask yourself, what is actually my desired outcome? And am I taking a long route because maybe there's a shorter route to live that lifestyle that

I'm saying that I want. Because when I tell you, Mandy, like if it took me a couple of days to realize they were all flight attendants, because I was like, wow, these people are well fade because they were just talking about all their trips, like oh, remember that time it Kenya girl, I remember this time in Zimbabwe or wherever, and I'm just like and then I was like, wait,

y'all are flight attendant. And then I was like, oh, they you know, they fly, you know, not for free, but damn near in comparison to what a regular ticket would cost. And yeah, So it was just an amazing trip to meet those amazing people because they were really so awesome, but also to just see life through the eyes of people who see the world regularly and who understand that there's more than one way to achieve that

type of lifestyle. So I just encourage people to, like I'm gona say, encourage you to be a flight attendant, but I'm encouraging you to figure out what your desired outcome is and ask yourself, are you taking the long route to it? And maybe if there's an easier route, well you can enjoy it now you don't have to wait.

types of people. So of course, like putting yourself on a trip in Jordan would put you in the path of people who were adventurous and willing to try different medical treatments in different countries and something like, which is all great, but I think for anyone it's like, just get out of your comfort zone, go outside your zip code, go outside of you know, your immediate circle, because that's where it's really just seeing other people, you know, living

the life that they're leading and being inspired by that and like, oh that's possible for me. I feel like I'm constantly getting to experience that so often just because of the virtue of like the type of work that I do and like getting to talk with you and everything, and it's really powerful. Hopefully this show itself is like one of those small ways people sort of feel like they can start to think bigger, you know, and start

to expect more in a different way. And like you said, going from we tell ourselves there's all these rules, but it's not like that at all, Like.

not just this episode, but all the other episodes. You know, I think we're a pretty amazing podcasts and the webbies agree, winners, So share a share this, share on this episode or at prior episodes, and you know, put it in the group chat and you know, this may make a good group chat conversation and let us know how that goes. So love y'all until next week.