Go out to the ka Common sparital hotline right now. Bring on former Broncos wide receiver tight end Nate Jackson at Nathan Sirius on Twitter, and how you doing this evening? I'm good. How you doing doing? Doing pretty well? You wrote a fantastic piece on h on de Factor, and I will tell you this before I get into that. I loved your book Slow Getting Up. It's one of one of my favorite reads. Passed that one around
as well. But you wrote a fantastic piece on on Defector, detailing kind of the end of your lifetime in the NFL and the process that you went through to try to kind of hang on there, and and and then as a kind of I don't know, side piece to that, and in the background of that story was the financial misappropriations of a financial advisor you had. I thought it was a fascinating piece and I kind of wanted to get that
out there and get into the weeds on it. Man. You know, obviously you've got your former teammate Nick here, and uh, it's it's interesting to me, and it's interesting to fans how careers end and and how guys go out, mostly not on their own terms. Even the greats often don't go out on their own terms, Olway being an exception that we look at your story here in the links that you were going to to try to hang on. At what point did you did you really actually know hey, this
is over? Well, great question, because it takes quite a long time. Like you mentioned John Elway, you know, having the teary goodbye, he has the press conference and he said, it's all over. I won my two Super Bowls. My body's failing me. Now I'm thirty eight years old. I got to walk away from the game. That is the fairy tale for most guys. It ends unceremoniously. You get a tap on the shoulder, you get cut, or you get a call in the off season,
and you never get to say goodbye. You never have a press conference, and then your agent goes you, look, it's not over yet. Keep training. You're gonna get another chance, you're gonna get a workout. You're gonna land somewhere, and so you believe him. You keep working at it. You keep working at it. Maybe you get a couple of workouts like I did. I got cut by the Broncos in January of two thousand or February of two thousand and nine. So I kept training all summer long.
I got a couple I got signed to the Browns, that was there for a week, got cut, played in the UFL for the Las Vegas Locomotives in September October of two thousand and nine. My hamstring tour off the bone, which was what ended my previous season with the Broncos. But finally a tour needed surgery. I have the surgery, and then in my sick mind, I thought, Okay, now it's fixed. Now I'm good to go. Now they're gonna want me again. And so it took another probably
six months after that. So to answer your question, it took over a year, probably a year and a half for me to realize that it was actually over. You and I might be the only people that remember the UFL. I did six months of work for the Sacramento Mountain Lions, you know, before I actually went to my last tour to Iraq, you know, half after that, so that we were the only people that remember the that
remember the UFL. But I appreciated that note. Being in Las Vegas Locomotives and we had training camp in Casa Grande Arizona on some fresh lights out in the middle of the desert, there was a biblical swarm of mosquitoes. We were staying at the holiday inn. There was a bunch of guys who were trying to get back in the NFL and believe that their careers weren't over.
It was a pretty sad time, you know, Nate, I appreciate you writing this article, but the biggest thing for me is what made you want to finally come out and write this piece and really explain to readers what you actually went through, but not just that, but what athletes actually go through. Yeah, so it did take me quite a while. I put a little bit of this stuff in one of the books I wrote, but nothing
of the detail that I used here. And you know, we've been talking about the end here and how long it took for me to realize it was over. And during that time the training to get back in my body's falling apart. I'm shooting HGH human growth hormone into my belly to try to heal the hamstring that wouldn't heal. All the while I'm staying with my financial advisor who lived in Sande and had become a quote unquote friend sort of, but
he was. He was stealing my money. My money was locked up in a Ponzi scheme, and I didn't realize it at the time, and it wouldn't be until, you know, the dust settled and I realized that my career was over. I really started connecting the dots. I was staying out in San Diego with him at his house. My mail was coming here to my spot in Denver. I had a friend here staying at my house in Denver, and I said, hey, man, you know, just put the mail in a box and I'll take care of it when I get home.
When I get home, you know, just send me something that's super important, and to me, super important was just like something from an NFL team. If it's a bank statement, a financial statement, that's not super important. I knew I had money. Throw it in the box there, and I'll deal with it later. Meanwhile, the guy who's managing my money is stealing it from under my nose and the rest of his clients of about twenty former athletes who all got swindled by this guy, and he was lying
in my face. And I was so focused on getting back to the NFL and hiding my secret, which was shooting up a and just not allowing myself to believe that my dream was over. That I wasn't paying attention to what was happening in front of me, And it just took me a long time to feel. Uh. I guess enough distance from that to connect the dots enough to feel to feel like I could tell the story, because I feel
like it's probably more common than people think. Yeah, And that's the thing that I you know, when reading this right when you when you posted it, and going through this, I'm like, man, this is such a you know, and I hate to put it this way, such a common story, you know around the league. There are multiple angles to it here. I mean, you got you guys desperate to hang on. You've got financial improprieties behind the scene. A financial will call it, and I have
a tay when it comes to this kind of stuff. I thought one of the most fascinating details in here was how you just kind of blew past the two to one match on the four oh one k and uh and And there's a subtle detail in here that I think that is something the NFL needs to do more of with some of these things. It's just automatically opting guys in, because then they'll have to fill the paperwork to opt out, which is the only thing that's that's that's more trigger and then trying to you know,
get your money in the first place. Yep, it's paperwork, man. NFL players don't know how to fill it out, and we don't want to fill it out. We spent our whole lives just playing football really well, and everyone would take care of everything. I mean, you talk about the paperwork, You talk about the paperwork. We don't have to fill out any healthcare paperwork. We never have to make an appointment anywhere to go see anybody.
Everyone does the paperwork for us. And so when you have to do something and put your mind into that world, anything to avoid that is what a player does. And you're right. The first couple of years, my first two out of six, I think it was a two, maybe at least one. I wasn't involved in the four to one K program, and because I wanted my money now, you know, I want the money now,
thirty years fifty five, I mean that's never gonna come. The financial system's a house of cars, guys, It's going to collapse any time now I want my money. Now I'm Superman, I'm young, I'm invincible. There was no future planning, there was no perspective on what things are gonna be like when this thing is over. You are just in the meat grinder every day. You've got to flip that switch and pretend that you are Superman.
And Superman doesn't need a four one K, right, So like it took them opting us in for me to get involved with it, and you're absolutely right about that. I think players need to be protected from themselves a little more. You know, this financial advisor was recommended to me by my agent. My agent, I'm still friends with him. He didn't do this
maliciously. He was deceived by this guy. There's a lot of dudes out there floating around who are deceiving players, agents and taking advantage of guys who are just so focused on being Superman that they can't see tomorrow. Nay. What would you do with players who are currently playing or about to answer into the league with based on your situation and your experience from a financial standpoint,
what would be your number one message to those guys? Well, I mean, you know, when I sat down with this financial advisor, was in when I was in the middle of year four and I had finally started to make some decent money and save some money, and I thought what I was doing was smart because we had talked. We sat down, we met at Del Frisco. He said he's going to be in town on business, and he brought his low portfolio and we talked about his strategies, and he talked
about conservative, long term, low risk strategies. And that's not what he did, but that's what he sold me on. That's what players should do, conservative long term, low risk strategies. And don't buy a big old house because you're probably gonna move, you know what I mean, Like, don't buy a bunch of cars, don't buy a lot of anything. Like shave your money and put it somewhere where it's going to grow and someone's not gonna risk it. And don't fall for the flashy dude, the guy who
wears the nice Italian suits and goes and flies to every game. He was like five or six years older than I was. He was at every NBA All Star game, UFC fight Black Card on every bottle, like that's who he was. And he wooed us with this idea that he kind of knew he knew the game, and he knew what we were about, and he knew what the lifestyle was like, and so that kind of thing can intoxicate
a young player. But for me, it was like I wanted him so I didn't even have to think about money at all, because the more I could focus on football and not think about my money, I thought, the better off i'd be it, the better I'd be at football, and then my money could grow. And so I blindly trusted this dude without really, you know, knowing much about him, because I just wanted to focus on
football. And so maybe I guess the NFLPA could create a list of sanction and I know they do create a list of certified financial advisors that they approve and stuff, but a bunch of guys slipped through the cracks. But it is a gray area where how do you tell a grown man what to do
with his money. It's really hard to police it. Yeah, buy an index fun first of all, But second of all, it's you know, yeah, it is interesting, you know to see it because I look and there's a lot of guys that are going broke afterwards, and the financial advisors that are they come in with a with a with a smile and a handshake and say, hey, I'm gonna you know, I got your money. It's safe, it's going to be fine, and they're using it to fund
a jet setting lifestyle. You mentioned the name of the person in the article, and I'm not going to mention his name here on the air. People can go out and read that and get that. But I do know that person has has a deal where he is attempting to write a book based on his experiences. Do you guys think that you're going to be able to collect money off him from that book? You know, I don't think he's actually really trying to write a book. If you google this guy's name, and
I have no problem saying his name, his name is Billy Crafton. If you google his name, he has done a lot of work, digital work to make sure that the first couple of pages that pull up have nothing to do with his frog. Billy crafton jiu jitsu, it's Billy Crafton, write the book, Billy Crafton Loves Dogs, it's Billy Crafton, like surf lessons, like it's Billy crafton financial services. So this guy has tried to scrubb the Internet of the reality of what he did to people. And you know,
if you did, you'll see the sec You'll see the lawsuits. You'll see that he wore a wire for the FED to nab a couple other agents plotting to defraud their clients in a multimillion dollar fraudulent scheme as well. So this guy's a bad dude, and he's trying to cover his tracks with that. I don't think he's writing a book. I don't know what he would have to say. Now. If he had some contrition and talked about how it got that way and the mistakes that he made, it could be a
really good book. I don't really see him doing that, though, because he never called me an apologize. You know, he never offered to give me my money back. He went to jail for a little bit, and you know, I don't know if he's really learned his lesson spiritually or emotionally or it would be willing to talk about that. But I think if he did or could, he would teach a lot of people a lot of things
about how it got that way. He'll remind you, though, and he told me that he lost his money too in this ponzi scheme, it was called Westmore It was a real estate development ponzi scheme in southern California, and he lost apparently a good chunk of his money here as well, and so there were no winners in this story. Yeah. Well that was kind of my next question because you mentioned in the article that you got to talk to him, and I wondered where those terms were, But I can, I
can read between the lines there. Some of the other people that were that had lawsuits or arbitrations against them include you yourself, a Cole Hamil's, Jason Terry, Brett Selik, a j Feely soccer player, had their mits. I mean, there are plenty of people that were that were fleeced by this guy over the years. But what I mean, you know, in terms of what guys can do to safeguard themselves on the front end from these vultures praying on them, what would your advice be to young NFL or NBA or
any any support players that are approached by these kind of guys. Yeah. I think if you're approached by someone, be suspicious, right, I mean, if they're coming to you to talk about your money, probably be suspicious. Maybe go with someone who's a family friend, someone who's backed by the type by the type of bank or institution that can support or has references for this guy or this entity. I mean when I'm that billy, he was operating by himself. He had a couple partners, but he was doing his
own thing. It wasn't until he was acquired by sun Trust Bank and sun Trust paid him two point seventy five million dollars for his stable quote unquote of athletes, and that's when they started looking. That's when they started looking into his holdings and realizing that he was a fraud. And if he had never you know, merged with sun Trust, who knows what would happen. So so go with someone who's established. Go with someone maybe who's a family friend,
someone who doesn't approach you. You do your research and find someone that makes sense for you. You know, I want you to explain to the audience what is like being a player and having that pressure to play through injury. Because a lot of fans they played fantasy football. They get upset with players, especially when players get injured, but they don't know the in the workings of the type of pressure that goes through a guy's mind when he's injured.
In hearing you say something I had ever discussed with you before, and it was different from me reading it. Well, you talked about the HGH that you were taking because of your hamstring. But I want you to kind of really elaborate on that, explain to the audience once again how difficult it is to deal with injuries and pressure in this game of football that we love.
Yeah. So I had never taken any steroids or any HGH while I was playing, while I was in college, while I was a pro, until I got out, until I got cut by the Broncos, and I had this hamstring problem that just would not go away. I knew it had not healed. I was out of the league. I wanted back in. I was desperate, and I knew there was something wrong, and I thought, in my state of mind that AGH was going to help me heal it.
The pressure to be back on the field, you know, while you're playing, you know, I mean, if you get hurt and I sit out, If I get hurt and I sit out two or three weeks and the guy behind me played better than me, and well then I'm not going back in, you know, And football from the very moment you start playing it. It's about how tough are you, Are you hurt or are you injured. The guys who can endure the most pain and the most injury really
are the guys who go the furthest in the game. I mean, every time you get hit on a football field, that hurts. If you get a helmet, a hard plastic helmet with a metal face mask, being pushed by a guy running at full speed as he possibly can and he flies into your flesh and bone, that hurts. Every single time. You learn to turn out, turn down the pain, block out the pain, deal with
the pain. Pain becomes a constant, pain becomes part of your life, and then you start to manage that pain and start to realize, Okay, is this pain I can work through or is this pain I actually have to rehab it and pull me off the field. And the longer you can stay on the field and deal with the pain, the further you're gonna go.
And so you know, training camp, for example, a war of attrition, you're out there beating the craft out of each other, and the guys who fall apart are not gonna be out there on the field, and the guys who are able to or endure it are gonna make the team and show their coaches they can be relied on when it matters. The window for an NFL player closes really fast. You know, it's a three and a half of your career on average. And you talked about John Elway earlier and those
guys who earn generational wealth because they have three four contracts. Well, if you play three years, you're not getting a second contract. You're not leaving the league with any sort of generational wealth. In fact, what you're leaving the league with was I'll be cool for five years type of money. Okay, that's not the type of money that you want to have when you leave
the NFL. You want to be able to set your family up for generations right ideally, and so playing through pain and injury becomes a question of the future of your family, your longevity, your identity. When you're out of
the league, you realize who am I without this game? And for me, I needed to do whatever it took to get back in Well, I appreciate the opportunity to get talk both of you guys, Nick every night, Nate you here as well, and reading your story that's Nate Jackson, former wide receiver and tight end, author of the New York Times bestseller Slow Getting Up and Nate Offline. I want to I guess some information I want to get You had a producer reach out from after reading your tweet you wanted to
get a hold of you, wants to talk to you. I don't know spec script stuff. I don't know if it's going to lead anywhere, but I do have some stuff I want to get you offline, so I'll do that here in just a moment.