Wyclef Jean - Live from On Air Fest

Pushkin why Cleft John had spent the last three decades as one of the most impactful rappers, producers, and composers in popular music. As a part of the Fujis, he helped craft their nineteen ninety six landmark album The Score, one of the best selling hip hop albums of all time and personally one of my favorites. The following year, he released his debut solo album, The Carnival, which included hits like Guantanamera featuring Celia Cruz and the platinum certified

Without further ado, justin Richmond and why Cleff Jean, come on out, come on out.

Yes, yes, welcome.

You know are you?

Yeah, you're in charge, boss man.

Man. I'm so happy here with you.

Yeah, right, that's right.

It's James Bird.

Uh.

I remember one time we did an interview twenty nineteen and uh we were talking about something and you were like, you know, it'd be easy if I just showed you, and I was like, well, we don't got a guitar. We got up, We walked around this office building, every damn room. We found the most busted guitar missing, the string wouldn't stay in tune. You tuned that thing up. It was a miracle. I don't know how you tuned it. Tune that thing up and played it like like Billboard is.

And uh, you know, not.

Everyone, not everyone can just do that on a you know, we just go find a random beat up, bust the guitar with the missing stream and play it.

You know, what did you play that day? Do you remember?

I just tuned the guitar and then I just started just playing, you know, playing chords, playing perfect fifths, just having fun.

Yeah.

But for me, like uh, instruments. It started for me like in Haiti, I would say I left, I left. Oh there's always one Haitian somewhere, so right, so that that's why you see the flag. Yeah, but you know, I say, like it starts for me in that small, tiny village.

Man, how old were you when?

Like I was, I was like four, Like my aunt will tell you like my first song was to my straight Dogs. It's the worst, probably the worst song I ever wrote. But tell us I'll tell you this song. It's terrible. So what happened though, was I used to in this village like straight dogs would constantly come and I would feed them. And then one day it was

What did it mean?

It was just the tone, right, because because the the the music is built from vibration, So lyrics are what we put afterwards. We just feel an expression, you know what I'm saying before words, it's an expression.

So interesting then you're saying that the lyrics come afterwards. When you're writing a song, are you thinking mel first or are you thinking lyrics first?

It comes melody at times mostly melodies. Yeah, rap wise though, because I was a battle rapper. That's how I learned how to speak English words. Was fierce, you know what I mean. So I would write raps depending on who I'm about to battle. That's how I would write my schemes. But when it came to like song writing, it all came from the church. So I would just hear melodies first.

What kind of church?

So my dad grew up in Haiti when he came to Brooklyn, it's a church of the Nazarene, so it's very it's like Pentecostal. It's literally like club church, you know what I'm saying, Like, if you missed the Club, come to our church on Sunday, you're gonna get that same energy.

It's incredible to say. But it's been thirty years since The Score, which is for me, the Score one of the foundational albums of this This is gonna be like maybe blasphemings to certain people, but for me, when I think about The Score, I think about it like it's like hip hop's Abbey Road in the sense of there's great music. There's great rock music after Abbey Road. But it could have stopped there and we would have been fine,

You're kind? It sold two copies, Okay, I.

Didn't want to say it. But then Salon Remy did the Nappy Heads remix and I want to play a bit of that real quick, and this became a hit for you guys.

Yo, Mona, Lisa, Could I get a date on Friday?

And if you're busy, I wouldn't in might takeing Saturday, hey, or.

I don't know, if did pass coming around the way.

Yeah, your head it was.

Shut what you got did? Can I guess some of that lyric.

A cheap of.

Cheaper y'all, Well, I'm anaik briyall, y'all, darn darn a.

Cheaper cheaper y'all. Well, I'm a leak briyall y'all, y'all, y'all.

You on a battle swing my brink comand the man like I was king, and all your dreams are right now, all replica sleeping kink cling the box almost the face and say I got tired as a fat lady, so wat sing nobody own our pro but.

Lit by that.

So I'm your king died like that because I got Saliza Moore girls convinsist. I was wanted to quote, but now I'm killing with a good minute assassination on the kid.

From the Capitol.

I never played us Omar, but now I'm in general Raw hospital.

And this is the first time classord that's that's not that remix.

I ran back the nineties, spring back the nineties, so I.

Missed the ninety But that to me, when you listen to the the Fuji's in order, like that's the first time it sounded like you guys figured the sound out like that sounds like what this like? That sounds like the genesis of the score. And I never put it together until I listened to Blunted in Reality Napihead's remix and then the score back to back to back to do this because it sounded at the time, it just sounded like the score came out fully formed. Everyone immediately

Yeah?

So I think the first part about it is so growing up in Jersey, we was raised with Cooling a Gang. So the first Fuji album was produced by Kalise Beyond from Cooling a Gang. So he's like the wizard. He did jungle boogie and everything.

So at a.

Very early age, I think I was like fifteen sixteen, so hanging Aroundalisekalise.

Took me in as a like a son.

I was a jazz major in school, so he took me in and he started he was like mister Mayagi, so he would quiz me and give me all these chops. So in the process Kalise was responsible for producing Blunding on Reality. So what happens is there was a sound out there, so Kalise was like, Okay, I know they can rap, but we're going to get them in that sound.

What are you going to say?

You're gonna shut up and you're gonna eat the l and figure it out. So they had a big studio in West starring So every time we record, then I go back to the hood. When I go back to East Starringes, what was being recorded in the hills was not sounding like what was coming out of the trunks. So in the trunks, me and Jerry Wonder in the book of basement. We was literally doing what was coming out of the trunks. And this is one last part that you had to know. So I ain't want to

Like y'all over talented, right.

Because in this industry too, Now you gotta keep it stupid like one plus one got it equal to we gotta do some knucklehead shit.

Did they throw out some ideas that they thought were too talented?

They they just.

Felt like because this group, I mean, I played fourteen instruments, you know, I'm a jazz head. I was scoring like off Broadway stuff. Lauren was heading to Sister I too. She just crushed the apollo so there was a lot. It was like, yo, how do you break that? Because you see in the industry, it's harder to break sophisticated talent, right, you see the because when you have talent that don't care about fame but care about artistry and will not

So Salam, you listening to this?

You got to drop this for the thirtieth year anniversary, and it's this wizard Salam literally, so we left to go to Europe. He went back and then he cut. He cut the twenty minutes. It's literally three minutes and thirty seconds. And then the minute he did the math, something happened in my head too, and I said, oh, okay, I understand.

Yeah, can I actually go a follow up on this song? So it opens with you singing Mona Lisa, that melody, that little ditty that motif ends up and an R and B ballad that you make for your solo album, The Carnival with the Neville Brothers.

Yes, yes, yes, I'm very.

Interested in understanding how you take a motif like that Mona Lisa riff and have it work for a rap song with Silamam producing, and also an R and B slow gem with another brother.

Play the Carnival vision of Mona Lisa Real quid just so people get here with Sam's talking.

One of the greatest love songs.

This is, by the way, and just for context, one year I want to talk about this too, one year after the score recorded on tour, you know, promoting the school on tour. Yeah, let's hear this.

My ticket Saturday, right about nine.

If you want your gee, you gotta hear the Nevills on Thistle Up.

If you don't have a gee, if you have a little bode, I still want to the front.

We want all the ladies fast, relax, let your hair out. At least White Left.

Presents the Neville Brothers in the house tonight.

I knew.

She grew.

Incredible.

Whatever I can't take that same riff and make it work in both.

I did a party file I'll cut the top Office, but we heard it's all good. You know.

How do you so like when you're doing that, how does your mind say? How does your mind know, well, this one little riff, it'll be two different songs that are very different.

Like walk me through that.

Yeah, I would say the best way to understand that is, uh, in high school at fifteen years old, my music teacher walks in and I'm playing piano and I'm doing circle of fifths yeah, and she's like, where do you learn that from? And I was like, oh, I just play every day and trick and she was like, close your eyes, what do you see? And then I said, well, on the right side of my eye, I see one, three, five and on the left side I see one five.

Music because you were seeing scale degrees. The one three five and the one five.

Yeah, y five is a try I one three five and then the one five and the left hand. So the numbers are the notes of a scale eight, and it's like perfect harmony.

Right, that's the happy one.

It's perfect.

So I was a happy baby someone saying that. So I fell in love with a few composers, Gershwin, cap Callaway, Quincy Jones, Louis Armstrong. Now what did I give from that? So when you hear Yo Mona Lisa, can I get, It's like, so let's go there, I go there, I go there, right, go bye bye.

Right.

So in my brain when I do a composition, long before the AI, it was I I have literally seven different versions in my brain.

Of what this thinking, of what it is.

Right.

So it's like at the end of the day, I could do a song and I can hear it in a ballad form, and then I can hear it in a house form, or I could hear it in the reggae form. So all that time when I was hearing, I was like, man, I'm obsessed with the meters.

I was obsessed with Aaron.

I was like, man, if I could get these guys, that would be the R and B version of Mona Lisa.

Would there ever be another version of Mona Lisa today that you made? And if so, what would it be?

I don't know, Man, we got I think Burnap Boy did a version of.

Its generation. Yeah, we'll be back with more from y Cleff after the break. Going back real quick to uh to that Salon Rummy story. So you learned? So you you when you heard that cut down version of Nappyhead's remix, were you you? Instantly? You weren't upset. You knew this is what we need to be doing, Like this is the right he heard the magic, he cut it to the right parts, and this is what we need to do.

Yeah, I mean again, like I understood the math right, so like my brain like it's like infinite math.

So but one plus one equals too. Like he just taught me.

Salim taught me like, all right, if you're not gonna be in in Carnegie Hall every week with your instruments sitting amongst the orchestra, and you want to be in the music business, this is how to go.

You got to figure it out.

Because Quincy Jones was doing the sinatra and all of that, but then he figured out how to do the other thing. So once Shalam did that, my eyes opened up.

So then what's the I know you got from the label. You got a bit of an advance. You buy a bunch of equipment, you put it in the basement, the book of basement as you call it, the studio, And what's the first thing you make then for Because you produced all but two songs on the score, So what's the first thing you do for that album? Okay?

So the equipment we got it from a garage cell really, so.

All the score okay?

Yeah, so everything you hear from the score, Me and my cousin Jerry, and my other cousin. You know, he funded us. He was like the chef, so he had a higher up job and he funded us. So I only tell you this so you understand how my brain works. So we went to a garage cell music stunt. Now, for my nerds that are watching this, let's just run through three things, which is important.

We bought a four five six.

Ampex rail big tape machine, so like when you be seeing the Ferdie Mercury, and then they cut tapes for the backgrounds. It was very important the tape machine. You got twenty four tracks, right, the twenty fourth is the sympthy that's where the noise come in and you try to stay away from that. That was one we bought. A second thing we bought was an old MCI board. Shout out to one Riker, one of the engineers, and this old MCI board just sounded warm, and then we

Thing you make with all that You get the pass base set up, you got everything together. What's one of the first things at least that made the album that you do.

I would say like along with that, I was obsessed with Pink Floyd the Wall. I needed something that had space in it, you know what I'm saying. So one of the early joints was the Mask. Have you ever won the Mask? And this is long before COVID, Like rappers have a way of the same ship and then years later they gonna be like he was Nustredamis. The Mask was one of the early ones because of the I don't know if it was like the jazz influence and everything. It was pretty amazing. Shout out to John

Are you serious?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, am I I'm getting me on. Y'all don't know everything, man, am I'm breaking trivia.

Yeah.

So, so Akon is like my little brother brother. So we was working on the score. Akon used to come around and be like, yo, man, listen to this, listen to this, and he would be playing his music for me. And but we're touring, and I was like, so before we finished the score, I was like, yo, the score cannot finish without putting this kid on it. And then so now when you hear the Fujila remix, well not now, when you go back and listen, that's Akon on that So I only say that.

So we said that.

Akon and then Eminem Inem they crew MMM was part of the Outsiders. Then when Eminem had left the Outsiders, he went to Detroit to do what he's doing. When we did the score, we bought in the Outsiders. So we wanted to show that unity. So on this song Cowboys, it's like the Refugees and the Outsiders like getting all together, you know. John Forte and everybody. So it was pretty so so there's a whole cool background of the history.

I just keep thinking about all of the names that you're dropping, and you're in credit record of collaboration, you know salam Remy Then, Nevil Brothers, Akon, Shakira, Whitney, Houston's Destiny's Child. When you are deciding who to collaborate with or fielding requests for collaboration, what is your north star in deciding who to make music with?

Because you have a pretty good track record.

Yeah, no, thanks, I think that for me, I don't even think of it like a collaboration. I've always thought of it like how I could compose something for someone, so like, for example, like you hear Shakira hipstone line, but I did that to everybody heard Yah, But I did that two years before Shakira. It was on a movie called Havanah Knights Dance like this. So so so a lot of my what I do is always based

I'd be like if I.

Was president then I get elected on Friday, they'd be like that shit ain't gonna play on the radio. But when it comes to artists, I'm always a fan and then I would demo the record and that's how I end up staying on a lot of that stuff.

How do you know when they say no to a collapse?

Well, the thing is I always say, I have to be able to give something back to the artist, right, and it's deeper than that, you know what I'm saying. I was touched the other day when I received some flowers from Beyonce, you know, and then she was like yo.

I mean they kind of like destiny should popped off because of you an area.

But it was ill because there's a composer and be understanding that, like I would perform. Then I bought them on tour with me. But she would always be on the side of the stage again right, watching the same way I would watch the next person. So right, So it has to be bigger than the collaboration. I've touched people that I felt have got next. Like remember I said they went from a dream to the Young Supremes.

That was pretty amazing.

Most intimidating person that I've ever been in the studio like dog my boots was shaking.

Whitney Houston.

I wanted to ask you about that because I personally think that one of her best songs is My Love is Your Love?

Yeah, man, tell me why I ain't gonna hold you because it's like dog like we in the hood in high school. You feel what I'm saying to you, and were a bunch of bad kids and we like.

I believe the children.

You know what I'm saying to you.

You know it's like and I'm like, oh, you know missus. Whitney's like it was just in the studio. She was amazing. She was you know, so Clive hit me and I'm like, you know, he's like, you're Clark. David's the record for Whitney, and you know, as a church boy with the church, it's right, and Whitney was going through something at the time. And then so so you just said, how do you know who to collaborate with? So I'm over here and

I don't like it? Why I don't like it? I love it?

Right?

So me and Jerry one for you?

Oh my god, I hate the song.

No no, I loved it so so so in saying that to me, that was like, you know what I'm saying, like someone like you just idolize?

That was probably yeah, yeah, hold on, but what was it? So? I can't bring a Whitne and hold up? So what what is it? When you're in the studio with Whitney? How do you approach that? Because like the idea of telling Whitney, yeah, let's do it this way. Maybe let's try, Like I just how do you even you know, as a layperson, how do you think to do that?

I do?

Like, yeah, I think, like, so Whitney, we like, you know, we had it was like brother and sister in the studio and I'm the choir director, so I know who's going.

To sing the lead? The soprano.

The so we have that the church just gave you.

So we had that church code connection right where we wrapped out. But here's a crazy story. Y'all might have heard it, or ya might not. So I'm doing I'm doing this like I'm doing it right. I'm doing this joint.

And in the middle.

Of the record, right, it sound like to me that Whitney dropped a note.

It sounded flat to me.

You heard Whatney's sounding flat?

What do you know?

Do you just think that and say, I can't be right?

She can't be flat?

Bro, listen, what did you do?

I was like, in my ear, I heard something was off. And then so you know, as a producer, this is where you have to make what I call the final call, right.

You gotta tell him you're literally right.

So you know I stopped everything. You know what I mean and what I was telling you. Remember I said, my legs started shaking cold sweat, you know what I'm saying. And she's on the other side, and I'm like, miss Whitney Houston, You're gonna have to do that one again. It came out a little flat what she said. You saw how silent it wasn't here, yo, sit got mad silent, and I was like, I'm fucked. And then and then

Yeah, Whitney's not flat.

Was never flat.

I heard that she really cuts up in the studio like she has fun. She's a jolly old time in the studio.

I've heard, you know.

My experience was one of the best experiences because I had Whitney in the studio, I had Bobby, I had the daughter.

I had all of them.

So she had so so and Bobby Brown and then so So in the studio. The illest moment for me was when Whitney was in the booth and she was singing and her daughter was on the other side with me, and then her door while her mom is singing, her mom can't hear where she's going, and then she goes.

Sing saying mommy because that ends up in the track.

Yeah, and then so I just sample. I sampled her daughter. I ain't even Whitney ain't even hear that till the final version.

Wait, so you heard her daughter say sing mommy?

Were you recording in the control room?

So I have the control room, but I still always have Mike's inside of my main room. But if you're in the control room, Whitney can't hear. But her daughter is cheerleading her mom.

She's like, sing mommy yeah.

And then I go, wow, I'm seeing I said what you say. And she don't know she's being recorded. So I sat my engineer and she goes, sing mommy yeah. And then I saved that on a sample, and then later I went up and I did that. So that was pretty pret your mind, your mind pretty.

That's incredible. Well, not's break and we're back with y Cleft Sean looking back, you make the score huge hit, you're on the road, you're making the carnival, and for whatever reason, I don't know, the group is sort of not holding looking back on it, how would you counsel yourself as y Cleft today to y Cleft back then in terms of how to be a member of the fujis in that moment?

Well, I mean, the thing is like, way before me, there was people that made the same mistakes as me, Like you could read all about it, like it's it's very clear. Even if I was to go back to speak to the younger why cleft, the problem is you can't go back and speak to your younger self.

Right.

What you do is within your present self, you're able to give a young one that you see that has that air and on the come up and you're like, yo, man, listen, now these are a list of things that you should not do moving forward. And but at the same time, you see within the universe when the vulnerability of artists and the honesty of artists. Right, So these thirty years, there still was a healing process.

Right. Lauren's my sister.

You know, her kids are like, I'm uncle, why Cleff, you feel what I'm saying to you. It's like to be in such amazing place of love. Right, Sometimes it takes because when you're young, right, and you have all these super hero powers. Both of us we got superhero powers. You don't understand the powers. As you get older, you start to understand them more and more and more. So I think like from a space of maturity, I wouldn't.

I always think about group dynamics and when a group knows when to try to keep making it work and to let it go and break up. And I always think of the Fuji story in comparison to the saga of Fleetwood Mac. Like the Fujis had drama and then they broke up. Fleetwood Mac had drama and they just stuck together and made an album about it. And the drama and the breakups.

How do you know in.

A creative, collaborative partnership if it's worth saying we're gonna stick through this and keep making art or we got a break.

I mean, I would say it's like two different psyches, Like Fleetwood Mac is a different psyche than we were, ye and we grew up within different environments. Yes, and then our dramas were completely different than Fleetwood Mac's drama. So it's not even like when you get to the point, I don't know, if y'all been watching twenty twenty five, you've seen the food. She's on tour and if you see us on stage, it's like old school Lakers. You know what I'm saying, Like I don't have to look at launch.

You know the past.

Everyone knows the past.

So but the what we do have and what we all have always been conscious of is in order to move the universe forward, because we always was like, we're not going to be a group, We're going to be a movement. In order to be a movement, they got to be perfect harmony. So the day like we don't feel perfect harmony, then the superpowers leave, right, and then you're not able to create that thing because you literally you know, like, yo, there's not a superpower there.

What does that feeling feel?

Like?

That knowledge feel like when you know the powers aren't like like what you tell?

How do you spot it? How do you feel it?

I'm able to tell now because we've healed, you see what I'm saying. So it's like we've healed, like me and all were good, Like everything is dope. So it's almost like Wolverine, like you shed skin and it's like when when when you're after the wound and then after the sacrifice, right, wow, and it happens and I don't I don't think people understand like we were, like I mean kids starts, Like even before you knew who we were, we already was like off Broadway doing a musical called

Yeah, it's struggling right now.

And I bring it up.

So I bring up this question of collaborating and knowing when to break and when to stay in it because a lot of the folks are at this conference are audio creatives who are making all kinds of shows with people, and those formulations of these teams might change, and there are podcast breakups and makeups and shake ups. And it's like, I wonder if you have any advice for creatives who are working in partnership right now? You know how to read the tea leaves stay in it or like know

Yeah, the biggest of advice.

So my partnership advice to all creatives is like this, it's better you do one thing, say that one thing, you'd be surprised how many people have only done one thing. And that one thing, you know, it turns into an iPhone. I'm just give you an example. You know, the one thing turns into Microsoft, right, you know, the one thing

So trust the vibes. Listen to the vibes, trust the vibes.

Mone. You know, there's also you said, Sam, get this wonderful list of people you collaborated with, and you mentioned one person backstage who I didn't realize we had a whole project with, who also gave you some advice back twenty years ago, King of Pop, Man, about where we are in today's future. So you told you if you can tell what the King of Pop told you about twenty years ago and how you're moving with that today.

Yeah, So so RP to the King of Pop Michael Jackson, by the way.

Yeah, if you don't know who, leave the room.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I would say again sometimes that I'll be saying stuff and I'll be like, you know what I'm saying, Like, because I don't feel like a lot of people get what I'll be saying. You know what I'm saying to you, because I'll be on another planet. And then so see they lying and they're like, what is he talking about? So I'm in the studio with Michael and Mike, you know, and then and Michael is like, just real quick, you

No, you know what I'm saying. The orchestra lives in your head.

The orchestra lives in your head.

And as long as you can take what's in your head, you don't even have to say it. You can think it and the machine will spit it back to you.

Michael, you know, cleft.

I'm working on this this other album. It's called Binaural. You ever heard of by Noural No, He's like yo. As we move towards the future, people will be able to hear music like it sounds like it's coming from a theater, but it will be like movie music. But they'll be able to hear from their headphones.

Fast forward today. Where we at today?

You have.

AI, right, and so the thing about it is, you know backstage, you know I use you. You almost punched me in my face when I told you, like, you know, I'm deep into AI.

But we were going we're going back and forth on that.

But here's here go the game. Okay, So there's AI and then there's Ia. Ia is me intelligent Alpha. That's what we all are, like, we're the source of everything. So at the end of the day, to my twelve niece arriving to day, is a new way that the future will do music. There's a new way that the filmmakers will make film.

Right.

There will always be bad actors in a room because within everything, Like when the computer wave was going on, there was bad actors.

When we was.

Going from no more physical records to digital and then too, streams were always gonna have bad actors. I think that our responsibility of as the human is to never lose our soul, right, because the only thing that the machine will not be able to duplicate is your soul. So inside, when I have like my niece and everything, she does everything with her computer. But when I'm sitting there and she's like, yo, oh, could you grab that guitar and play something, that physicality of the human.

You can't replace that.

So you're not you are using AI as a tool, but not scared about it replacing the human creative spirit.

Well, I'm using it as a tool because how is music created? Right, y'all y'all see the final product. But if I bring y'all into my studio, y'all going to be like, oh, this looked like Star Trek. Right, it's called there's a lot of equipment, and the equipment is called hardware. Then the hardware get converted into software. You know, my DJ friends, we used to carry like ten thousand crates and then it gets converted into the computer. So at the end of the day, you use AI as

Yeah, I know where you gotta go, But I gotta just ask you one question. As a fan of rap and a lover of rap, I see all these headlines about rap being dead or dying. I hear some of the newer artists today, and I'm like, you not like it used to be? Why left as a legend of the field. Do you feel positively or negatively about the current state of rap?

I got seven albums coming out starting in April all the way to October. I think that rap is part of hip hop and hip hop. The culture is only getting stronger and stronger all around the world, and I believe in the future. I'm gonna do my part, and I'm very excited about some of the future young artists that are coming out. You know, we just got to

Right.

What we're pushing here is the algorithms are just more towards one thing, and we have to go back to that eclectic well and not just that.

It's like I watch and I have this theory. I think that like every rapper of note in America right now, the men, the boys aren't having fun.

Are you already watch this? I'm gonna get to twenty one. I'm the one. I know what y'all thinking.

Me too.

In my game of numbers, they could only be a few. I am the Trinity. Guess the riddle?

Kids? One man on two sticks?

What's that the crucifix? At least that's what they taught me in Sunday School. Forgive my foes. Fives pointed at Pinocchio's nose. Skip to six, Go to seven. That's the number of completion. Adam ate the apples, so they cast them from the garden to Eden. Jealousy got him waving his nine King kills Abel he attend man, you know his heart pump soil. Two ones ain't enough to make it ring Michael phone check one two rap lips in

Klutch or body slamm.

But my nephews they don't use they hands in fourteens, m fifteen's guns and roses pointed at your sweet sixteen. I was born on our tour with seventeen. That's the day they killed my lead up, Jean Jacques Ile And then my mama told me there's monsters under my b They eighteens think Malcolm X. The nineteenth thought was about any means. Twenty twenty vision they say the good die young. I am the master of AI. AI is not the master of I. I did this freestyle to show you how I made it past twenty one.

Yes, Ali mans It.

Sam Sanders, Justin Richmond, w John, Oh my God.

An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite way Cleft songs, along with some of his new music. Be sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see all of our interviews, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record pot. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rohodse with marketing health from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is a production