The Black Keys

Pushkin. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation with Dan Auerbach and Patrick Carney of the Black Keys. So you guys are finishing a new album. It's not not quite done though.

It's basically it's we's to have to mix it. So that's almost done. So we're going to LA in two weeks too to tweak some mixes and yeah, it's gotta be sent to uh often get pressed in like three weeks. So we're basically done with it, just have to master it, mix it.

Have you guys mastered anything out there or do you typically come out to LA to do that?

I mean we've met, we have stuff mastered all over, we have stuff mixed all over, but typically we don't attend a mixed session. This is like what it's like the first time we've ever done that, just to kind of do final tweaks because it's so difficult to you know, it just sucks trying to explain stuff in an email, so little, tiny, nuanced stuff.

Is that in response to having been unhappy with any mixes recently or just was it album moting mixed once and it wasn't the standard?

Or well, I mean I think you know, uh, since Brothers we've been kind of sending stuff off to get mixed. That was that was a game changer for us to be able to tap into someone that's like, uh, you know, that's what they do for a living. Prior to that, we'd mix stuff ourselves, or we would like, you know, mix it with a maybe just an engineer at the studio. But you know, when we sent Brothers to Chad Blake,

Wow, Delta Kaream. I guess this decade from like Delta Cream to now its four albums, it does seem like the sounds like you started the decade almost It sounds like back to like the big come up kind of sound, down to doing do the Romp Again Part two and have kind of slowly moved away, or not moved away, but slowly drifted to a sound that's like it's a more complete production sound maybe or a more full production sound.

Yeah, Delta Cream was really just a jam session that we released. You know, we didn't really know we had an album until how long was it after we recorded that that we even listened to it?

Yeah, we did it.

We recorded in December of twenty nineteen, right after the first leg of the Let's Rock Tour, and then the pandemic happened. I don't think we really checked it out to see what was there until the July or August.

And then we didn't fix anything. So it's just it's just a it is what it is, you know, no overdubs at all, no overdubs on it, just some percussion and then Yeah, so when we got back to making like a normal Black Keys record, he was more kind of back to you know, being creative in the studio, working with the studio as a tool to you know, kind of get creative and stuff. And because that's you know, part of the fun of it for us has always been recording.

Yeah, basically we put we put Delta Cream out in spring of twenty twenty one, and then we did some promo around that. That was the first time we were able to work in like you know, a year and a half and then around that promo stuff, we just hopped in the studio and started working on what became Dropout Boogie, And when we kept when we finished that album, we just kept working so kind of like the basically, you know, from that spring of twenty twenty one until now,

On this album.

Do you guys typically record jam sessions or was that No, we don't usually do that, to be honest, I mean, all of our recording sessions start with us jamming, but then we build on it.

But this thing was this happened because I was making a record with Robert Finley in the studio and I had Kenny Brown there and Eric Deaton, so you know, that was sort of the the reason that we got in the studio for that in the first place, you know, because we've never recorded with a bass player ever. That was the first time on Delda Cream, so you know, that was even though it felt like the big come up days and it was like something new at the same time.

You know, have you guys recorded with the bass player live since then or no?

Yeah, a couple of times. Our cover of Forgot to Be Your Lover, that's right, we did that in La with Tommy Branneck on bass, and we did a couple other songs. I think, but I love it, you know it really I under you know, now after twenty some years of playing drums, I understand why. You know, it's great to have a good bass player. Nice to lock in with the bass player.

It's fun. Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of the songs I'm Brothers started with bass and drums.

Yeah, that's right. So Brothers was basically cut that way because we when we were making that record Black Rock right before that, we're doing like, you know, the music, and then we're having rappers come in, so we're making beats essentially, we were you know, focusing on starting the tracks with a lot of them with just bass and drums. So we went into Brothers, we just kind of maintained that method and.

Mark Neil had an amazing Rickenbacker bass. It was like a rick four thousand or something. It was awesome, sounded so good.

And so for Brothers, did you guys put guitar over those basic tracks? Then? Yeah, wow, that's a that's a unique way. I don't know, that's a really unique way of doing it, especially considering the guitar or drum band.

You know.

Well that yeah, that album, most of it was recorded at Muscle Shoals Sound and when we did that, it still hadn't been renovated, so it was it was pretty messed up. And Mark Neil brought like this twelve channel stood suitcase mixer, so that's what we tracked through. So we were only able to monitor twelve tracks at a time. So like I think there was a couple songs that had thirteen songs when we or thirteen tracks, and when we had listened back, we just would like not listen.

To the tambourine, but we not.

We couldn't hear the whole thing together for the most part until we got mixes.

You had to trust the tambourinees coming through right.

Yeah, but there was something about the way that we recorded that so minimal and then gave it to Chad Blake, who was able to just like maximize everything. And he loved it too. He's used to getting sessions that have a million tracks, and he was he loved that mixing that record.

He loved that there was only about thirteen tracks, yeah, versus.

The exactly Delta Cream the same thing when he was mixing that.

How come you guys sent that record of Chat instead of doing it yourselves.

We're not Chad Blake. Yeah, well there's only one Chat.

There's only one Chad Blake. Yeah.

But if you guys had been doing it yourself before, was it was just a experiment in a sense.

Well, us doing it ourselves.

This whole thing was an experiment.

Yeah.

Everything we did was we had no idea what we were doing. Man, there's no re frame of reference. We'd never seen anybody mix, you know, so we didn't know what mixing.

What we kind of had because we've gone to like shitty studios and Acronym made recordings on like an eight and then we get we get the recording back and it would just sound like the drums would sound like someone was smacking a pillow. So that's when we started just doing everything ourselves. It's like, if it's gonna sound fucked up, like at least make it sound fu Yeah,

It's been a lifelong search for those sounds really, to be honest, that's half the fun of it. Though.

Yeah, the sound on Ohio Players was really cool.

I mean there's live performances at the root of every one of those songs real, you know, absolutely, yeah, songs like on the game stuff like that were we're kind of we're live in the studio. We tracked that one with bass, bass, guitar, our, keyboards and drums live, and a couple other ones from that session too, so they

Did he work with Joe Meek? Was he around like when.

No, Joe Meek died like he killed himself in his land lady right, something like that? Yeah, some tragic story. Yeah, were you guys?

Were you guys around for.

God?

Who's the other great?

Uh?

John Peel? Did you guys ever do like a Peel session?

Oh?

Yeah, yeah, we did a couple of them.

That was our first That was our first kind of big break outside of the US was John Peel playing the Big come Up. And then our first trip over to England was like a promo trip when Thick Freakness was about to come out in April of two thousand and three, and uh and yeah, we did our first Peel session there and then a couple of months later we got asked to come.

To his house, his country estate.

Yeah, he would do it. He would do like his show in the summertime from his house. We we had this crazy year of two thousand and three, just you know, being really broke but traveling a lot, and this one, you know, we went and played some festival in Norway. Then we flew to London and we got picked up, drove right to his house. Remember we were just so jet lagged. I took an app in his daughter's bed while Dan played soccer with him in the yard and

He died. He went on a trip to Peru and had a heart attack.

What was what was it? First of all, what was his record collection? Like that record collection must have been crazy.

He was crazy. He had different how like different outbuildings like there was like a barn over here, and they all had thatched roofs. Right, So there's like a thatched roof barn over here. That was all his seventy eighths, and then over in this thatched roof big thing was like all his you know, forty fives. And we we

Fuck, he had had all the everything.

I mean, he had a million albums, right, wasn't that you know?

As soon as you sent him on attached to find something, He's like giddy. It was awesome.

Yeah.

That Peel session at his house was live on BBC, and uh, his whole family was there and they made a stinner. It was like, you know, it was really special, you know, and us like at the time, you know, we you know, we weren't really kind of aware of the gravity of what it was to.

Be hanging out with that guy. You know, he was just kind of this cool DJ. And then.

You know, as we got older, we kind of learned like what that show really meant to people and what it really was, and you know, I wish that we had something like that. I mean, I think the world

And the continuity between you know, he'd done it so long. Just being able to present like led Zeppelin in like nineteen seventy and you know you guys in two thousand and three. I mean, that's just that's crazy. You know, it's nuts. And his sessions always sounded really good to

You know, I did it made a veil when we were doing them. I think that's really did them.

He has a BBC. Their studios are incredible, They're their gear was always amazing. It was like that was the first time we ever saw Cole's microphones. Yeah, Cole's ribbon mics you know. Yeah, no, those those some BBC sessions always sound.

Amazing because basically use a ribbon mike.

Always, you know. I mean after those sessions we started to but yeah, they would have ribbons on everything.

Yeah, now that's a cool thing.

You show up and then basically, here's this world class studio. You've got like six hours to record four songs, and you can do anything you want to do. So you know, if you wanted to, who knows, they would let you do whatever you wanted to do. The coolest John pil Antono is that he told us he was present in Dallas when Lee Harvey Oswald was killed in that parking garage at the police station because he was working for a radio station.

And so he saw that in person. And I guess he's in the I guess he's in the film.

Wait, wait, he wasn't he was actually at the police station.

Yeah, when Lee Harvey Oswald gets killed by Jack Ruby, he's one of the guys there.

That's incredible. I'm gonna go I'm gonna.

Yeah, watch it on slow mo. See if you can find him.

Yeah, maybe somebody can find them in the pictures.

Maybe he'll be in the files of releasing the JFK files that are coming out. John Petle was involved. How does it feel promote I mean, I guess the difference between promoting a record then and now. I'm just curious. You guys do do a lot of press, do you guys like what how do you guys go about figuring out the way in which you want to promote a record or do not spend much time thinking about it?

Back then, I remember one of the first interviews we ever did with like a European you know, first one of the first interviews period. We were at south By Southwest two thousand and three, and we we did a

You've ever taken any drugs?

And we're like we were like naive kids, you know, and we're like, I was like, oh, I spoke opium once and uh the headline of the fucking m was like Opium fueled Blues Duo and I was like, holy shit, this is insane. It didn't really help us sell any records, but.

It was cool.

Look kind of miss headlines like that. Miss magazines in general, kind of sometimes for for for you know, headline like that.

You know me too, Yeah, I miss I missed being able to like pick up a music magazine and I have something I want to see in it.

You know.

It's like back in the day, like.

Just you know, Magnet or Alternative Press or Flip Side or Maximum Rock and Roll. Even just at our local grocery store, you could pick up this one cook magazine called ray Gun, which is like as a music magazine that lasted for just maybe a couple of years, but it was like the graundraphic design was so crazy, like you could barely read the articles because they like lay the articles out. But you know, that's where I've actually in the you know, you know, early magnet magazines and stuff.

I don't know for me too, though, I'd get sit down a lot of like dead ends, you know, like looking through a magazine and you have to try to spend you know, fifty bucks on a bunch of records I saw on a magazine and then you know, they all sucked, and that was kind of a bust.

It usually sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I bought a lot.

Of shitty records.

Were there local like zines in Akron or.

Sort of, But.

It seemed like a lot of that stuff was like geared towards hardcore punk, which Dan and I.

Were never into, never never had a stage.

No. We get along too well with our fathers.

Will be back with more from the Black Keys after the break. Your dads were friends too, weren't they our dads?

I mean we're neighbors, they're neighbors. Yeah.

Yeah, that's how Dan and I know each other from just growing up around the corner from each other.

And your dad was an art teacher or procure of art supplies, Yeah he was.

He was an antique dealer and he collected folk art outsideer art. Yeah, he would, you know, he was like a picker.

You know.

He would go around Ohio and Pennsylvania and West Virginia and he would have his routes that he would run and go to different places and buy things and then he would sell at shows, antique shows he would go to like Brimfield, or he would go to the Triple Here Expo in Manhattan and set up a booth, and you know I would go and help him and ship and it was always fun. I love doing that stuff. Did you learn a lot about art through him or

Has anything of his or anything you've gotten from him made it to any artwork Blackie's artwork or arts.

Mm, I don't think so, but I mean no, I mean one of the guys that he would help facilitate an acron this artist named Alfred mcmore. My dad would like bring him crayons and art supplies and pipe tobacco and bring him stuff he needed, and he would try to help him get his art out there, you know. And this guy was he would leave voicemails on the

So he would call our houses like every day, multiple times a day.

Demanding pipe tobacco and crayons.

And he would tell like, you you're big. If you don't bring me a two liters of coke some crans, you're a black Key, you're d flat.

And he'd make these five foot wide he put long scrolls with cran and pencil, and so Dan's father had like, you know.

Just a basement filled hundred of them.

Maybe because he would, you know, give him.

He's living in like a halfway house, you know, and he had very little resources, so chuck with like give him some Cran's paper stuff. Then get these scrolls and sell some, give him some of the money. And but yeah, they're they're pretty incredible. He would draw a lot of like a lot of highway patrol people in high heels.

Big chandelier, earrings, chandelier because he done boots.

Yeah, it was so cool.

They were. They were like these long stream of consciousness. They would be like funeral processions, you know, people in open cadillacs and like all these different Jesus was playing like rock and roll guitar and they're amazing.

Really, I mean, Alfred would wear about the three or four suits at the same time. And then his daily ritual was like to go to the Stewart and Calhoun funeral home to any random funeral and just cry.

He show up to random funerals and cry.

This is the person that my dad brought over to the house to spend time with his sons. Exposed expose us to his artwork.

Alfred No, I mean his.

Artwork was so beautiful, but like impossible to display, Like where where do you put a fifty foot roll of art work?

Do you guys still have some of this?

Uh huh oh? Yeah, man, my dad got him to do a couple of small pieces and they're okay, but the roles are actually where it's at.

Yeah, I got one little small one. It says mcmore mclusts and that's where. That's what we named our publishing company after mcmore mcless.

Is he still Is he still around? No?

He died in two thousand and nine.

I think did he Did you guys ever play him any of your music?

I don't believe so.

He knew about the band, but I don't think probably no interest in Yeah, you guys might have set him off a little. I don't know, I could aggravate him.

You know.

Were there other people like characters like that around town?

Yeah, there's a lot of like, there's a lot of characters an Akron.

There was the purple Purple man. That guy his house is purple as cars, probably acrons full of that kind of stuff there. There's like it's kind of like pull man.

Then there was a guy we called Eep.

In ild Square and uh, the little neighborhood we kind of grew up around. Uh, there was a really eccentric shoe repair man who just retired, but he'd be in there with the fumes and stuff and he dressed the

They total Like that's what Akron that did?

He did he deal them?

Or yeah, you sell them? He was like.

Yeah, you're like, what gauge do you want? He's like h ah, he'd like judge you by the gauge of the train that you want. The real trains are, oh gauge Apparently that's what you want. The real trains are what, oh gauge the big ones?

Well, I don't know what that means.

I know, well, sounds about right. I bet Neil Young knows I was gonna say.

Neil Young probably knows this guy. Oh yeah, why did you call the what was the one guy called?

This is what he said all the time.

That makes sense. National's got to be filled the characters too, right.

Yeah, it's just filled to the brim.

When we first moved to town, we both moved like to the same area here, and uh we were neighbors with Harmony Krinn, so we hit it off with him right off the bat, and through Harmony we met like, you know, David Berman and and then also you know, introduced to the original kind of cast of eccentrics. What you no longer see any of them anymore, but most of them were in Gummo or something.

You guys have been there over a decade now, right, they're fifteen years You mentioned the cover of Forgot to Be Your Lover earlier? What made you guys cover that song? So I was scared to click on it, to be honest, because it's such like a perfect record, the original you guys version is really good too.

Yeah. No, it's just it was just one of our favorites, you know, and we were in the studio, we were hanging out. We were just inspired to do something like that, and you know, we really didn't think too much about it, and we really didn't even know if it was going to be on the record or not, you know, but it felt good when we cut it. You know, we had our buddy Kelly Finnigan and Tommy Brenneckan there with us. Kelly sings harmony, and it was just felt felt good. Yeah,

Oh yeah, it's.

Just such big you know, like Forgot to Be Your Lover.

It's just such a big record, you know.

Yeah, one of those perfect records.

From like the opening opening riff, the drums on it are perfect, opening lines, perfect.

Yeah. Absolutely. We mostly we mostly just wanted to hear Tommy play that opening list.

Yeah, yeah, that's it's pretty much.

That was the reason we cut it. No, that was Tommy.

How much time do you spend listening to music these days.

I probably listened to like an hour at least a day of music.

What's what's moving you these days?

Man, I'm kind of all over the map what I'm into right now. But you know, we've been doing these record hangs where we playing forty five's, so that will you know, that's kind of got my algorithm going trying to find these kind of trying to find like songs that I feel like hits but weren't hits.

It's kind of like the ultimate goal.

But I've got, you know, got I've got a little I've got a six year old boy who's into music and opinionated, so a lot of the stuff I'm like trying to play him stuff, see what he's into.

What are his opinions.

I mean, he's got good tastes. But uh, it's funny when he when he'll he'll hear something and like it, and he'll he'll he'll he's like aware enough to think like that he should be embarrassed by liking it.

If so, he will like not he'll keep it a secret, like if he thinks because he'll think like I will like make fun.

Smart kid.

Yeah, I know, I mean his intuition's spot on. But no, you don't get made fun of for what you listen to in my house till you're eleven.

What about you, Dan, Do you listen to a lot of music or like not work related?

Yeah, I mean yeah, i'd say similar, you know, especially digging for records you know, online. It's kind of become like one of my favorite things to do is just like chill out for an hour and like search for music, you know, because I swear to God, every single day I can find something that blows my mind if I if I search hard enough.

True.

So yeah, honestly, like as soon as we started doing these record hangs, I think I started listening to way more music on average.

Same who organizes the record hangs we do.

We just kind of picked like.

Cities where it will makes sense when we're on the road, or cities we think it will be fun to do. So yeah, we just had to meeting the other day to kind of pick out like the next couple months of it, and then some of them are kind of last spin it, you know.

Yeah, it's kind of fun just to pop in somewhere and unannounced and spend some records.

Did you did you guys spend records like that out like out and about like before that or no, a little.

Bit, a little bit bit. Yeah, you know, back when I did the ARC stuff, I would spend records with Richard Swift and Leon a few times, you know, here and there, and and then I started doing it on my own just a little bit, and then shortly thereafter invited Pat to do it with me, and then we both kind of got hooked on it. Really.

Yeah, it's addictive, you know, I'm with Dan on that. Like, I've definitely probably spending like ten uh, I don't know, at least another thirty minutes a day extra listening to music because of this. I'll go down rabbit holes and uh trying to find stuff. And I've learned more about music in the last probably two years than I had in the previous ten years really for sure, not just not just like hit history of music, but just like.

Kind of maybe how to make.

It well, you know. I mean that's an interesting point, because I mean to your earlier point, like finding songs that sound like they could have been a hit or should have been. I mean, it's it's just it's it's fascinating how much a hit I mean, I guess we all know because we know hits that kind of aren't that that great. But it's fascinating how much it hit really has nothing to do with how good a song. It's necessarily you know, it's all these.

Oh yeah, absolutely, man. That's why we feel like we can play records for like three hours and like they're jams and people will be dancing for three hours straight and they won't know a single fucking song, you know what I mean.

We love that.

Yeah, like this song could have Like there's nothing that's like more annoying than just somebody going up and just playing hits off iPod, you know what I mean, off a computer. But like, oh my god, it is fun to be like be able to like see the crowd move to a song they don't know. You know. It really is satisfying.

I think that's the biggest thrill. It's because it's not playing something obscure to be obscure. It's like it's got to have this. It's like this perfect combination of like.

Yeah, if it doesn't work, we're turning it off.

Yeah, it's like it's a you know, because it's got to not only does it have to like groove and have the right production.

It's got to have like the right mix.

There's so many of these songs where you they like they seem like they're going to be it, and then you get the record and the mix is.

Just it's fucked up. The drums aren't there, it doesn't work.

Yeah, sucks. It's a lot of it.

It's weird. Yeah, you'll spend hours and hours and hours searching for songs. You'll find like songs and you get them sent to your house and like, only like ten fifteen percent of them actually are as good as you thought. They were pretty consistent, pretty consistently.

Yeah, Like the vocals are like twenty five percent too loud. The drums are just like almost good, loud enough but not there, and then you put it on the club and it doesn't work.

Or like the drums are great, but then there's like the high hat.

It's like something, it's just messing all up.

We can live with the as long as we can live with some of it.

But yeah, do you find that it do you find through digging though that some do you ever find yourself lost in a sense of like after thirty minutes an hour of listening to something you you kind of don't know what's good anymore.

Oh yeah, that happens to me when it comes into this specific thing. I've definitely I purchased a few records and I'll get them like why the fuck did I buy this record?

And I was like, really, be like what was going on here?

And I was like, you know what it was, is like I just put so many hours into looking for something that I think I just wanted to buy something so I could have something to show for it.

You can get yourself worked up about the smallest thing about a record that the smallest reason why you need this record, you know, is enough to buy it.

And then I've definitely bought a record the other day because the snare drums sounded so bad in a good way that I was like, maybe Dan, I should sample this.

What record was it?

Oh Man?

Because his last name was Washington, I forget. It's this decent song, but the snare drum's real messed up. It sounds like a broken four track.

It's cool.

Do the record hangs im like impact the way you guys make records in the studio.

One thousand, Absolutely no, I mean we're spinning records and and and like seeing what what gets the crowd moving definitely influences us when we get in the studio and what we want to try to do. Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think there's a couple of songs on the new album that definitely exists because of the record.

Hangs mm hmm.

What tracks are those? I've only been over to here too.

But yeah, and one of the songs you're I mean, both of them are. One of them was a rough mix.

Which one was that?

I mean, if they sent you no Raino Flowers that was that was the title. That was the wrong mix. Yeah, yeah, that's like part of the thing did sound very different from the night before.

I heard the night before and it sounded the production wise, it did sound very different.

Well, it's like, you know, it's the thing that's interesting thing about like we started this album and the very very end of July and and really got going on on it like in September.

But when you're like.

Writing recording, you know that much work that in that bunch of a condensed period of time, you know, it takes it takes a few Like we kind of finished tracking mostly in the middle of December, but then I think it took us like a couple of weeks of getting away from the record to get back to the place where we could start mixing it, start getting it finished.

That's where we are now.

But yeah, there's like one song on it that's just a kind of Cumbia influenced because dances. We're playing a lot of Cumbia at the record hangs. But yeah, I think that it's an interesting thing trying to figure out how to put an album out in twenty twenty five versus two thousand and five, because it used to be like the biggest difference is it's like, yeah, of course there was press and stuff that you could do.

There's things to do, but really it was like it really felt like.

Back then, like your album came out then it was like okay, now like now people are finally gonna get to hear it, and like there was this life to it like where it was like you know, and it kind of feels inverted now where it's like with a minute your album comes out, it's like unless you have a couple of hit songs on it, it's just what's coming out next week?

You know. Yeah.

The weird thing about that though, from the you know, listener perspective and just thinking about music as a consumer, I guess is it automatically puts all new music in the same frame, in the same context as like old music, like in the sense of like when a new when when the Ohio Players comes out, I'm sort of guilty of the same phenomen on. I listened to it, and I pretty quickly move on. But then also fine, just as quickly as I move on, I pretty quickly come

You know, I heard something a couple of weeks ago.

I don't know if it's true, but the mere thought of it gave me a slight existential crisis, which was that there's more like that. There's more music released every single day in twenty twenty four as there was in the entirety of nineteen eighty nine. I don't know if that's true, but could that be true? It feels like there's some sort of It kind of feels like that, you know, I've chosen to believe it also, you know, I have other feelings about UAPs and things like that I've chosen to believe.

What are those feelings. I don't know they changed day to day.

What are they today? I haven't thought about.

It yet today, So I'm like, no, But you know what there is there's just so much good music that's been made, and it's like, you know, it's like if you're a fifteen year old now and you have Spotify, like I just I wish I could have experienced it, you know, I wish I could have had my teenage years when there was something like Spotify. The amount of time Dan and I spent looking for music when we were teenagers and up through our twenties, it is insane.

Fall on the ground.

We'd been picking them up, crazy box sets things. Just like every single dollar he was making was going into buying music to try to hear it, see what was there, you know, And.

Asn't I say, forget time the amount of money when you had no money you'd spend you know.

Yeah, well you know I think Dan spent all his money on that. But yeah, you know, like that choice you have to make when you're like a fourteen year old kid and you're just getting into like lead uppein and you go look at the go to the record store, and like, you know, you could end up hating LEDs up. And if you picked the wrong record right there, if you walked out with presence, you might never like leads

Of a Holy I think then I imagine you'd end upuying presents.

Eventually you would get there, that'd be last Yeah, did you were the record? I'm trying to think, were there groups like that for you or artists like that for you where you just heard the wrong thing first and then just had the wrong impression for far too long.

So I wonder if they had that record in through the Outdoor. I wonder if that as some sort of reference to their catalog. But yeah, I mean, like here, it's just today. One of our engineers at the studio asked me if I was into Space Spend three, and I was like, actually, you know, I was like a hip teenager. I you know, I bought a Spaceman three CD when I was like fifteen, and I it was way over my head. I really didn't get it. But then I got into Spiritualized and I'm just now getting

But I think that's cool.

I end up respecting bands that have catalogs like that, Like Pink Floyd is that band to me too. There's just a lot of evolution from the first record through the you know, I guess through the mid seventies all the way up.

To the Wall.

Then there's groups like the Rolling Stones where it's like there's a lot of output for a certain period and then like a limited output. But it's it'd be, it'd be the odds are against you picking a bad one. I guess you know, if you're at the record store and you're twelve, you never heard of the Rolling Stones, a bi Rolling Stones record, there's.

Just good advice to pick up, yeah, if you like you know, the advice is, if you're gonna buy a record from a classic rock band, just avoid any album where they're wearing like a pastel sport jacket, if they're wearing like pastel, like muscle shirt, if they're dressed like Miami vice, skip the record and you're gonna be good.

And there is this what is that Stones record where they're like laying down and they got a like neon on or sport coats.

I owe it to them to never listen to that bad though. I don't know, the cover is just so bad. They got such good it's not bad. I just have a thing about digital eighties reverb, and so I just I hate the whole I think maybe because my parents got divorced right in mid eighties. I just I fucking hate like people are like, oh, man, like you like this band. It kind of sounds like Bruce Hornsby, like you fucking just kill me right now because I don't want.

That's amazing. Yeah, Digital REAVERB brings back too many painful men.

It fucking does, dude. I really can't hear it. It's amazing. Sorry, man, no nostalgia for that.

I do like dire Straits a lot though, that Brothers and Arms, but it's like that's.

A REAVERB on that or on the on there.

It's tasteful, but like that, you know, I can't go. I can't go later in the eighties than that.

Do you have prejudices like that, Dan, like musical? Oh god, yeah, not not.

Absolutely. He's not the same prejudice, that's the thing.

Yeah. No, I'm picky, man, I'm picky about I mean everything. I mean. That's like when people say that you guys are influenced by blues, It's like, yeah, but like what blues are we talking about? You know what I mean? Or like what hip hop are you talking about It's like we start getting into specifics. I mean, we love music too much to just generalize. Really at this point, we spend so much time thinking about it. It's like,

But yeah.

It's like if you tell if they get someone's like I'm really in the wine, It's like, well, what does that actually mean? It means they're a complete fucking snob about what win to drink. It's like us about music. You know, hear the same, Oh I really love food. It's like, oh, do you want some ruffles? No, motherfucker? Like, I'm like, good, you want. It's a good call.

We'll be back with the rest of the Black Keys. Shortly you mentioned it, like, do you just like how general the label blues can be? Like I feel like when people think blues, like the reactive thought is like Muddy Waters. But you know, I don't know if it's sacrilegious. I'm not really I don't really like Muddy Waters. No, you know, Like, but pretty quickly, I guess if you if you think about the blues, it's like Muddy Waters.

Yeah, the first blues album I ever heard was Electric Mud, So I love I love How, I love Al Wolf, and I love Muddy Waters, but I like the bastardized version of it all. That's right, But and I'm just now kind of getting into the other shit Dan's way into like Mississippi, Fred McDowell, all kinds of shit I'd never heard.

He exposed me to all this stuff.

Yeah, man, I loved like the raw, early primitive kind of blues like stuff from Memphis before they actually had like bass, you know, where it's just kind of like guitars and drums, a lot of like one man bands, two man band kind of stuff. Joe Hill Lewis and Doctor Ross, the Harmonica Boss, stuff like that. Those guys were my favorites.

How did you How did you start discovering that stuff?

My uncle Tim was really into blues music and has really great taste. He's a fucking snob too, and he hit me to some really cool stuff early on. But you know, right when we were starting to like get serious about music, that whole fat Powesome Records record label kind of came to be and started to have their moment, and it was really you know, it had a major effect on me, you know because for the first time these you know, I loved blues music, but it was

Yeah, which I guess is even more so. I mean, again, we were talking about the way a record's mixed, where you get when you get you think the records is gonna be great, you get it and it's mixed weird and it sucks. But then there's records that are mixed terribly and you wouldn't want them any other way.

Yah.

Almost times they try to wonder what would they sound like if they had been recorded. Well, that's sort of like, fuck, I don't know if I want to hear that.

You know.

It's like, yeah, a lot of blues music got messed up because it got recorded too well, you know what I mean. It's like I think jazz too Yeah, maybe, yeah, something about like that kind of like you know, music that's heavy on the improvisation. It's really nice to get it in a place that's not actually a recording studio, to where there's like a the room is kind of alive and more less of like a science laboratory, you

Yeah, the jazz definitely preferred.

Jazz recorded at a like live of the village vanguarden type of ship always sounds much better.

Whatever magics and like those Fred McDowell records recorded at home. That does that ever in your mind when you're recording stuff like it would be I want something like that I want to go for that, you know you're not going to get it, I guess, you know.

I mean that's why we went to muscle Shoals, you know, that's why you know, that's probably why we recorded in an old tire factory instead of going to a studio. You know, it's all because of that. I think we've made most of our decisions based on that, you know.

You know.

I was way into a music from Big Pink when I was like sixteen seventeen, and my dad was, you know, told me like they made this, you know, record in the basement of this house on the cover, and ever since then, I was like, that's that's that's the coolest you can do that. So yeah, I mean I got a four track when I was thirteen thirteen years old, started fucking around with one in my basement, making absolutely

We just kind of sat there and.

Started fucking around showing him that, and I would take it over to his parents house to be set up, like in their child bathroom, just to get different sounds.

Sounded like shit, sounded like dog shit, but it was worth a shot.

We used to do shit like too. I got think freakness. There's I'll forget what song it is, but damn wanted like a Leslie effect or something. I just started swinging the microphone in front of the amp while we recorded. It actually sounded fucking cool. That's kind of shit we would do, put like broken the record. Yeah, that's on the record.

Was it like a first did you get that first take?

Probably?

I forget what song is, but it's there. That's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

Dan's uncle Tim Wants brought over this like Fender reverb tank, and then that became our whole identity for like about two months, just putting everything through that shit.

Our first effect.

Yeah, how does the no Rain, no Flowers? I heard the wrong mix? How different does the final mix sound?

I mean you get the just the basic idea I think, yeah, it's not that far okay, but yeah, just a little bit more work to do.

It was pretty It's a it's a pretty different record for you guys. Like the song I don't know sound icenically, it just sounded so different.

Yeah, we've we've never really written with piano players before. It was one of the first times we've ever done that. So that kind of that instantly was like different for us, but natural. You know, it was like we wrote it together with with Rick Knowles in the studio here and it was like we worked really u quickly together. So it's just whatever sounds like it was. It was pretty natural the way that that it unrolled.

You know, how did the writing go. I mean, was it was it based off jamming or was it based off of someone bringing something in?

Rick likes to start with a song title, so he was asking what if we had any song titles, and that was one.

That Dan had.

And you know, writing with a keyboard player like we worked with. Yeah, Like I said, I guess a lot of keyboard players are on this record, and to see the way that they choose to voice chords versus you know, guitar obviously, it's just it's all kind of a lot of it's pretty. It was very fresh to us to hear what you can kind of get to, you know, and Rick's really good at that and it's a chord master. So to sit there and watch the guy, it's like master of his craft and been doing it for a

Like going to songwriting school a bit.

It was just to see how they how they choose to work, and then then to see how they entertain, you know, the way that we want to move the song forward, and like, don't get that collaboration thing happening.

You know, you know, you want like tweaking songs still a couple of days ago, right, we're still tweaking ship still. Oh yeah, was my impression with that? You guys worked pretty quickly, But is it like I guess, working pretty quickly and then going back to something you know, like that's not It.

Depends on what it is. You know.

It's like we we record. We decided to do a cover of this song two days ago, and so we spent like three hours. We spent two hours tracking the basics and then getting a rough together, then another two hours the next day, and there's four hours all in on a song and it's maybe very close to donn.

That's one way that we can do shit.

And then another way is like this this method where it's like, you know, get with a songwriter and with Rick, maybe we'll write in two or three songs in a day, and then there's like you know, then you started to get into that start trying to figure out how to do this, and then maybe there's multiple approaches to it.

What song did you guys decide to cover.

We're gonna let it be a surprise.

I think, Yeah, it's a surprise.

Yeah, all right, all right, we.

Just cut it yesterday. We haven't even had time to think about it yet.

Yeah, all right, I'll tell you what it is. We're doing a compilation of songs considered the world's worst songs, and we're trying to make them good. And this is We Built this City. It's our cover of Jefferson Starship We Built the City, written by Bernie Tappin.

You guys made a documentary, right, we didn't, but some but there has been one made.

Is that coming out? Not coming out? Sounds like not too exciting? No, I think I think it come out? Yeah, you know, we've we've just been fucking grinding in the studio.

Bro.

Yeah, I think since between you know, we I think we've you know, we've been really on this creative streak right lately.

So we've just been focused on that, you know. And now we're about to put this out and we're gonna go on the road a bit this year, and uh, you.

Know, yeah, we're getting ready to not be able to like go in the studio very often. There's lots of shows coming up, so got it.

I'm trying to get it in while we can.

Yeah, that is that a fun shift to make going from the studio on tour.

You know, I think I think tours fun. Playing the shows is fun.

It's just about I think we you know, like if you like, are drink too much tequila, like you might never want to like taste it.

Again.

We almost got there kind of with touring before. So it's like there's a little bit of that, you know, a little bit of that sense memory of what it feels like to be on the road for an entire year. So even though we have like it's only like maybe fifty or forty five shows, it's still like, you know,

You know.

When we kind of did this transition, like started moving into the arenas around brother Zell Camino, it was like, you know, getting into this whole different thing that we never not only I'd never experienced, but Dan had only ever been to like one arena show and I'd never been to arena show. So it was like we were now playing our job, was not doing something that we'd

Were they fun show?

Like?

Were they fun to play arenas?

Yeah?

Absolutely, Yeah, any show, any show can be fun.

Yeah, it's all. It all depends on the audience. Play festival, you know, it really helps when there's an open pit in the front. You know, Yeah, when the when you're in an arena and it's seated, or when you're in a theater and it's seated, it's like it's hard, it's not so much so so much fun to play rock and roll in those kind of places.

Or we're on stage and there's like a football field between you and the front.

Yeah, like festival, you know there's where there's like.

You know, the energy from the crowd is there is crucial crucial that's like the most How does that get decided?

I mean, obviously a festival that's kind of out of I mean, that's just up to somebody somewhere. But when it's like a black Key show and you're going you know to a different city to city, like, are you guys allowed to dictate like how like front the first ten rows are seated or not?

Or you know, I mean if you're playing in an ample theater, you're kind of stuck with whatever's there. If you're in an arena, you get a little bit of choice, you know, to a certain degree.

But there's certain rooms where it's.

Just you know, designed to to be that way, like the Oregon Theater in Chicago, Brickson Academy in London, the Zenith Barrow Lands, like there's these rooms there are like four just six thousand seeds, like the Anthem and DC. The rooms that are like four or five six thousand seat big rooms, big theaters with an open floor.

Those are those are those are the that's the sweet spot for us.

Is there a world where you guys would say like we're only ever going to play those or primarily.

Well, I don't think enough of them exists to you just be playing the same ten cities. But those are the most fun, you know, I think it's almost worth it to just do a couple of nights in those versus a you know, hitting some stuff where it's you know, you might miss energy. But it's the same time, part of the fun of this job is traveling. You know, it's just about how much you do, and it's like it could be fun like, you know, to hit up some of these you know, off the beaten paths cities

Does it go? Dog?

Did you find that out?

Yeah? I did find it out.

We just have to do one more tour and then.

Yeah, we will tell us they're always like one more tour. We had done this tour. This is in twenty twelve, dude, that's the year that gave us like that's tequila taste

And I still don't know if we made money on that tour.

Actually I don't think that we didn't.

You can't you audit that kind of thing. This sketchy dude, what.

In hindsight would you go back?

Like?

Is that was that the problem? Just what's that saying?

Though?

No, I think that that's the problem with the that happened, Like it can happen. It's just like you got to know when to say when. Like the other day, just so today, like you know, our manager called and was like, we got to you know, we have this tour that's already too long to go to Europe and they're like, we got to offer to go to to add on to this one more show. And I'm just like, it doesn't really matter how much it's going to pay or what it is. It's like it can't it can't do that.

You know, ticket.

Prices up, hotels are up, all the all the vendors are up. Everything's way out of control.

But like.

The amount of money that hits the you know, the actual musicians is way down.

Yeah, we're excited about this album.

But yeah, I was gonna say that trying to say this earlier, it was just like, you know, part of this whole thing is like figure out how to like how to like roll record out, how to like you know, and so for us, it's kind of like for me at least, it's like the most exciting thing about making music is like people kind of get to That's like the one perk of this. It's like people get to

So yeah, we got a lot of cool shit to share this year.

I mean, I think I think the reason why we never got into writing on the road is because we've always been like a band that writes and makes music centered around creating a master essentially, you know, like it's always been about the recording since day one.

It's been like since.

Literally the first time we officially like kind of started this band, it was like we were making we made a recording, and then after that it was like, when we get together to make music, it's it's it's it's based around that. So on the road, it's like we're gonna put a studio in your bus, like a fucking idiot, Like, come on.

Why would that make you a fucking idiot?

It's just like sleep on your bus.

It's gonna sound like shit, there's a fucking diesel engine below.

Come on, Like, you can't.

Tell me that what you're doing is so valuable. I have to be recording eight hour. I have to have my studio with me on the road in the bus. Do you know anyone that does that?

No, just I M start doing.

Don't be a fucking idiot man, just sleep man. Well, good luck on the road, Thank you, Thanks, look forward to hearing the record, and uh, I hope you guys make some money.

You know.

Me too, Thanks man, Thanks dude.

Later y'all see it does Dan Arbach and Patrick Carney of the Black Keys. Their new album, No Rain, No Flowers is out later the spring, with the worldwide tour starting in May. You can hear our favorite songs from Dan, Patrick and the band on a playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. To see the video version of this episode, visit YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.