Jim James

the edge of leaving the band behind. But today Jim is in a much different place, healthier, more grounded, and full of self acceptance, thanks in part to a mix of traditional and psychedelic therapies he turned to during the pandemic. This month, My Morning Jacket returns with is their tenth studio album, and they're first made entirely with an outside producer,

the legendary Brendan O'Brien. On today's episode, Lea Rose sits down with Jim to talk about the ayahuasca journey that helped him learn how.

or somewhere in there. Because you know, you can start with the concept let's make a heavy metal album, or let's make a protest album, or let's make this kind of album or that kind of album. But when you get in the studio, things start working and not working, and very quickly your heavy metal album turns into a folk album or whatever, you know, just to use broad terms.

So I feel like this record more than ever. I feel like I really just tried to let myself put everything I have into the pot, and I put all of my ideas, even things that were kind of mostly finished or close to finish solo project ideas or one ever and thirty second voice memos, and you know, things we'd already recorded with My Morning Jacket that we're kind of we weren't totally happy with, but we just kind of put it all into the pot and I tried to step back and let it, let it be what

it was going to be.

they're supposed to be. And you can you can either follow a light left to right, or you can tap on yourself left to right, and basically it's like this really interesting. Uh. And obviously if you google it or whatever, you can read far more scientific explanations on this. But you're basically, you work with your therapist to go to a traumatic moment and and while you're processing that traumatic moment in your mind, you're tapping or you're following a

light or whatever works best for you. And basically it's like in my experience, because we all kind of I think we all know the feeling of of trauma taking us over when we don't want to be taken over. You know, it kind of starts playing like a full color HD movie and kind of taking over our lives. And basically you're trying to put it back into your memory box. Where it's just it's just another memory, like the you know, it's like a black and white polaroid

compared to a full color HD movie with sound. And so I found when I work through those things and through different parts of myself, when I combine the parts, work therapy with it, so with that it's like a similar thing like you'll work with the twelve year old version of yourself or the five year old version of yourself, or wherever you've experienced these trauma and you process it, and as you process it, something's happening in your mind

with the tapping where it's putting, it's kind of unpacking the power of the trauma to make it more of a normal memory, you know, where it doesn't have such a hold on you. And I feel like that for

me has been extremely powerful. And I have coupled that with different psychedelic therapies like ayahuasca and ketamine five EO d MT different things, because I feel like I think one thing that I try to be careful about when talking with people about psychedelics in particular is not trying to be like, go do ayahuasca and everything's going to

be great. You know, all your problems are gone, you know, because I think that's the kind of common thing that people think, Oh, if I go to ayahuasca, I think you really got I think all those things are important pieces of the puzzle, but I think you have to be very careful where you go and who you do

it with, and be very guided, you know. I feel like I've always wanted to do a lot of those things, but I've always tried to wait until somebody that I trust kind of brought it to me, you know, the universe brings it to me, you know, And I feel like, so I've been fortunate to have some of those experiences. But yeah, ayahuasca was really, I mean, very varied experience,

so many experiences. I mean we could talk shows and shows and shows about just that, but there was that was a very crucial piece in my healing journey of I had an experience where I was holding myself in my own arms, and I was this was twenty nineteen, right before the pandemic, and I was I was Jim in twenty nineteen, holding Jim in twenty nineteen, and it was as real as this, Like it wasn't like some

some wild trippy hellucination. It was like as concretely real as this, And I was holding myself, kind of patting my hair back, looking into my own eyes, being like, Jim, you're so mean to yourself, buddy, Like you gotta you gotta be nicer to yourself. You gotta try and love yourself more. You know, you're you're a nice guy. You're trying your best. And I'm look, really, Jim, you really

mean it, you know. And it was like I was able to see myself as another person, you know, And I think that's a that's a distinction that really helped me because it's easier for us to be nice to people we love, you know, but then we're so mean

to ourselves. We rip ourselves to pieces. And I've spent my entire life ripping myself to pieces, being so mean to myself, trying to escape from myself, drinking myself to death, you know, just running, running, running, And that was a really important piece for me to see myself as somebody

that I need to treat with kindness, you know. Like that was like a mind blower to me of like, God, if I can't be nice to myself, if I can't love myself, how can I hope to see the world with clarity, you know, or you know, it just was a really really big moment for me.

just feel so grateful for that. I feel like that, like you asked a minute ago, that was kind of all of that has kind of combined to kind of lead me to where I am when we're working on this album and beyond, you know, to kind of be able to not place my entire self worth in the success or failure of my band, you know, because most of my life I've done that, you know, most of my life. I'm like, if I get the world to love me, or I get this external validation, then maybe

finally I can love me. But you know, that's that's a recipe that never works because you're just on the roller coaster ride of one day the world loves you and the next day of the world hates you or whatever, and you're up and down, up and down, and yeah, I keep trying to come back to like what can I What can I do that nobody can ever take

away from me? You know, And that's love myself. You know, that's something we can all do for our selves, especially in the madness of the world, the chaos of the world. I feel like if everybody started trying to really love themselves, we would see that again to manifest and more healing and more peace and more love for each other. You know.

taking the energy in a bad way. But I think if we think about it kind of like that that episode I had in Ayahuasca, where like, if we think about ourselves as our own best friend or whatever, and we treat ourselves as if we would treat our most beloved, best friend or partner, you know, whoever in our life that we love the most. Yeah, if we if we started there, I mean, what what greater work is there to do? You know? Then delay that foundation?

times throughout the years, you know. And I feel like, luckily we've all been on a similar journey lately where everybody is really trying to take good care of themselves and do the work to like heal themselves, and you know, and that's been this really beautiful, uh era of just

better communication. You know. It's like it's not like things are always easier that no problems arise, but I think when you instantly address the problem and talk about it and clear the air, that like lets it all blow through.

And I think we've got we've been in this really just I mean we kind we kind of all like hug and talk about it all the time, like, look, how lucky are we We're still you know, twenty five years later, we're still playing music and we still love each other and we're not like trying to kill each other or like hiding from each other or like having separate you know worlds or you know, it's just like everyone has to so totally yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just so you know, so great. Yeah.

taking it out on everybody else. And because I mean think about, like, God, if Kurt Cobain or you know, Jimmy Hendrix or whoever people struggle with absolutely, Jim Morrison, whoever, people who struggle with substance abuse, Joblin, whoever, think about if they could have found a way out and found a way to get past that, they could still be here.

You know, we could still be experiencing music from Marvin Gay or you know they're talking all these people this just like, I think we really need to think about that for the future, you know, that that we can hopefully get this word out that it's okay if you're depressed, it's okay if you struggle with substance abuse, like talk to somebody about it, like find a way there is a way out, you know, and don't beat yourself up or feel like you're all alone or your failure or whatever.

You know. I think we really need to address that. A lot of this stuff, a lot of it comes genetically or it comes through some pipeline.

keep solving their problems. You know that we have all the answers. And you know, I think I think that's one thing that I've struggled with. On another people have struggle with is when you watch somebody that you love suffer whatever, and you keep wanting to help them. You know, you're like, oh my god, if only you just won't you just do this? Won't you just do that? Yeah? And I think a lot of times people don't need

to hear that, you know. It's like people people just need you to be there for them and listen to them, and yeah, speak your peace and and you know, put out put some things on the table that could help them. But then I think sometimes we need to step back and say. That's one thing I just kept coming to again and again, was like, well, like, whoa man, how can I offer anybody advice if I'm constantly at war with myself? You know, like where am I? Where am

I offering advice from? If my whole world is in chaos?

think of it objectively. But do you think of the band as like distinct eras that line up maybe with albums or decades or how do you think of it?

all of these albums. Because each album is like a time machine for me, you know, And it's like and if I have to go back to it and hear it, and I like hear that old Gem and I'm like, wow, man, Like that Gem was so lost in being Jim, so completely consumed by this experience of being Jim and being gobbled up by this depression or this fear or whatever,

that he was so consumed in it. But at the same time, like I always know that he was trying the best he could, and that kind of really gives me this piece as I look back across everything and the sense of like I'm so proud of everything that I've ever done. I still show up to do the work, but I accept that, like a lot of the things

are gonna happen, They're not really in my control. Whereas as I look back in this time machine and all the old Gems, all these old Gems were so locked into their ego of Jim, and so there's so much resistance and so much depression and anger and fighting and the universe still was going to do what it was going to do, but I couldn't see that, and I was fighting it and just like so consumed in this whole thing, so Yeah, it's so interesting when I look back,

because there's so much fun in there, and so much joy too, and hilarity and experience and love and brotherhood with the guys in the band and you know, everybody

I've ever collaborated with, and all all of this. But there was so much fear there too, and so much depression that I feel like I look back on all those different eras of Jim and I really try to be compassionate towards him or whatever, because it's I have to embody him all the time, you know, anytime I sing one of those songs to embody this old version of Jim, you know. And it used to be when I was still depressed and I was still being eaten alive.

As the latest version of Jim that's having to go back and do all these older gym soles are cool. Oh my god, I can't tired good. I can't take it. But now the more peaceful I've become, it's become really fun and more easy for me to go be twenty two year old Gym or twenty five year old Jen or nearly suicidal thirty year old Gym or whatever it is.

And I can see it all with more compassion, and we can have more fun as a band, you know, we can do wilder setlists and do every single song we've ever recorded or whatever, Whereas before my depression limited my range of what I could do because I just couldn't do a lot of things.

it was so dark, so difficult, you know. But now when I go back and try to do some of those darker songs, there is this really beautiful rewiring or something where it's like it's like geez, like what a gift that I'm able to like go back and revisit this energy and almost like it ye, heal it, you know, like somehow manifest the energy still and create it because there's a lot of like wailing and screaming and like waw, you know, like a lot of energy that old Jim

had to get out or whatever that now when I get it out, it's like this beautiful yeah changing of the energy or releasing of the energy. And there's this gratitude there where like whoa, Like how lucky am I that I can still do this? Yeah? And that people

still want to show up and see it. You know, it's like it becomes this beautiful celebration of like if there were people that identified with the way that that Jim was feeling, or you know, people that are dealing with their own depression or their own energy, like perhaps and hopefully we can all rewire together, you know, we can all manifest this new energy together, and yeah, it's really really healing.

still in this journey. But one thing I do recognize is I am able to love all those old gems more and give them a pat on the back and like and really just love a song for what it is, you know, and and not be comparing it with fucking Bob Dylan or whatever. You know what I mean. It's like there's just always been this ruthless voice comparing myself to all of my heroes. And I think once we

all realize that, like, that's that's all illusion. You know that there is no comparison, there is no better or worse, there is no you know, it's all different shades of everything than I have. I really have been able to just like just enjoy a song for what for what it is, you know, like for the well the thing it provides at that moment, and uh and also just experience in that in that moment and then it's gone. You know, I'm not worried about it. I'm not like, oh,

Jez Louiss, you did I sing that well enough? Or are those lyrics good enough? Whatever? It's like just like experience.

And I think when you're trapped in that comparative frame of mind and you're like, oh, Vandixa's eighty three million views on their YouTube, we will only have you know. Yeah, It's just like that whole uh mentality is just so

fucked up, you know. And I think that's like part of our jobs too, is like trying to get each other out of that comparison mind frame and just into this idea that we've all got something to share and it's gonna be what it's gonna be, and you can't look at it in this statistical way that unfortunately our current digital paradise has trapped us into the statistical world.

ever done period, you know. So it's like there's the sense of like, whoa, people actually liked my music, and I fell in love for the first time, and I lost my virginity, and I like was having this like really beautiful moment in time where like all these things that I never thought would happen were happening, and there's this sense of just joy and creation, and you know, we were just like running around wild and you know, we were kind of like our own little version of

the Wrong Stones in France or whatever.

But it's interesting that you choose that record because I feel like, is we've kind of come into this new golden age of like this this peaceful golden age of like it's different from that because that was like that was a beginner's mind still and youth and first and new and all that stuff, and and but it's beautiful because we've kind of invented this this new new, this new beginner's mind in the experience where it's like, what else can we do that keeps this new for us

and keeps this fresh for us, And one of those things was finally being able to release control and bring in somebody like Brendan O'Brien to work on this record with us. That was something we'd never done before, was like bring in a coach, you know, because we always either did it ourselves, or we did it with contemporaries or equals or you know, people that are kind of on the same level as us. And that's a beautiful way to work too, but we're just like always like

what can we do that's different? And I think all of this kind of healing that we're talking about, I was able to like let go of so much and be like, I really think we could benefit from a coach, you know, somebody who's who's not our equal, He's not on our level. He's like a step or two above. He's done this hundreds times more than we have. You know,

he's twenty years older than that. You know, just all these things and really like connecting with Brendan and getting to see his viewpoint was such a revelation for me and for us that I feel like made this whole thing, this whole experience, just this beautiful new beginner's minding, you know, it is really really special.

and I took different meetings with lots of people. And it's interesting because a lot of more experienced, bigger name producers or whatever often come with bigger egos, and there's this whole thing that they bring in that can be really hard to deal with, where they want to tell you how many Grammys they've won and how many records they've made with Elton John, you know, all this kind of toxic energy that we're always like whatever man you know,

like and Brendan. The great thing about Brendan is like he never put any of that on us, and it was never about him inflating his legend or his ego. You know, It's almost like all that he cared about was the music. You know. And he was a very nice guy, a very funny guy. But he wasn't interested in becoming best friends. He wasn't interested in being our spiritual guru. You know. All he was interested in was the song. You know, it is the song the right Keith,

Is it the right tempo? Do the lyrics connect? You know? And he always would have this great sense of being critical but always offering a solution or always offering something that would help. And to me that it was just like I had never really worked with somebody who whose mind worked that quickly, wow, and who never was there about their agenda, you know. And he was always open

to what we had to say too. He would never like cancel out what we had to say, be like all right, all right, let's check that out, or you know. But it was so funny playing them songs because he's playing one song and he's like, I was like, I don't know, man, And then he's playing the next song and he's like he's like, oh, that's pretty great. Okay, all right, we're gonna have to get rid of something

else because this is pretty good. And it was just really inspiring, and I started writing more and more songs and as we said, started the record or whatever. And because we send him like over one hundred songs what and very quickly he whittles it down to twenty you know, his favorite twenty you know, and he's just like and we're talking about it. He's like, he's like, oh yeah, man, He's like, I'll just get in there, and he's like pretty quickly, I'm like, nope, nope.

really trying to surrender to that process. So I felt like, Okay, the universe is gonna speak to me through Brendan and I'm gonna just flow with it and see what happens. But it's really cool because there were some songs like Squid inc Is a good example of a song song Brenda did not like squid ink at first, and he's like, is it gone on? No, man, But the guys really liked and they really wanted to do it, and Brandon was really respectful of that. He's like, I don't know

about Screwed, Inc. But the guys like it. Let's keep it in there. Let's see what happens, you know, because I feel like he kind of understands that that universe thing too, because we could go try it and it just falls flat and doesn't work, or we try it and everybody loves it and it's great. And I think that whole thing was really really interesting because it was this cool combination of like everybody's input, but everybody kind

of really removing their egos. And I feel like Brendon's good at just channeling the universe as it comes through and really just being like he himself. I forget how I put it, but he's like, he's like, I think I'm just hearing things, and I think that's how people want to hear them.

We're trying different styles, We're trying try and do this and trying that. And I really think this album's same thing because I feel like there's a lot of different flavors.

There's a lot of different styles. Yeah, And it was just really interesting because, you know, over one hundred demos or whatever, we chose twenty and then we narrowed it down to fifteen, and then a couple didn't work at all, you know, and you don't know why, a couple of our favorite songs, you know, and we're just sitting there scratching our head, and you know, Brandon and I were trying to see if we could do anything to save them, and a certain point you're like, okay, well those two

didn't work. You know, let's see what did work, you know. And that was really cool thing too with Brennan, where I feel like he was like, sometimes we going are going to make record somebody, and we have fifteen songs and ten of them don't work, and you're sitting there with five songs and you're like, all right, man, I'll see you in six months, go write some more songs. Yeah, And so I think he would have been honest with us too if he felt like we were at that point.

own legend. You know. It was really cool because Brennan, like Brenna, would share little stories here or there if there was like a something we're working on, He's like, oh fuck, yeah, yeah, hell, you know, one time this or that or this is that. But there's something that just really really appealed to us about his lack of inflating. He's you know, he's almost reluctant to share our stories.

I mean, think about anything that grows. You know, you plan a seed and a tree grows, and it looks this way one day, but then it looks different the next day. It looks different ten years from now, and it looks and I feel like that's kind of how every song is, is that it looks different every day and depending on how you play it or depending on

where it goes. Some songs really lend themselves to exploding and improvising and you know, and other songs don't you know, the songs are like all right, here we are, it's three minutes long, and this is it yeah, but even those songs, they still they'll be faster or slower, or they'll you'll be angry one day, you know it sounds different. You'll be really happy one day it sounds different. But yeah, it's so so interesting.

I had, like the vocal melody, but I didn't have any lyrics or anything. And Brendan really liked that riff a lot and really like he was like, Okay, let's just take this riff and let's think about it. Let's you know, the ukulele turns into electric guitar and the band comes in and it gets more exciting, and you know, it like expands, and that his excitement got me excited, so like I like started, you know, like working on it thinking about it that way, and I'm sure live

it'll it'll grow even more. You know. It's like that's just such a such a cool thing, such a such a fun process. How it all unfolds?

version of mine where jacket for twenty years. Over twenty years now, you know, that's a lot of accumulated time, and not only time on stage, but just time together as people, you know, and you kind of know each other more and more and more and more and more.

And you think of, yeah, like the Beatles in that those Hamburg days or whatever, all that time they played together and all those experiences really prepared them for when they were together in the studio and faced with the pressure of the world or whatever, they were ready to do it because they had spent the time and done the work.

The band isn't here, my parents aren't here, you know, nobody's here right now, And I try to keep thinking about that, because when you're on tour, you really have to think about that in this interesting way because if I'm trapped somewhere, it doesn't matter where I want to be. I'm right there, you know, and it's like and I can spend time wishing I was somewhere else, or I can face reality and try and enjoy it, you know.

And I love how Michael Singer talks about He's wrote The Untethered Soul and has a podcast that I really enjoy, and he talks about reality and he's like, you want to hear the definition of reality. Reality is that which has already happened. It's like and you can't if you wish you could change it. You know, you might not

like it, but it is, you know. That was another one of the reasons I want to name the record is it is like it is, you know, it's like and I think that's something we all need to think about if we want to change the world. If we're not happy about the way the world is, it's okay to feel upset about it. It's okay to wish it was different and one way. But if you face it directly as it is and say this is reality right now? What am I going to do about it? How am

I going to need it? You know? How am I going to show up for myself and for reality as it is? And I think that's like some kind of doorway to a better future. It's almost like you can't think about the future. You've got to like really think about what can I do in this present moment, starting close, you know, starting with myself and the people around me, and how can I make that better? And I just keep trying to think about that. That's really been helping me.

my mind. I mean, I feel like we're kind of like living in his era in a lot of ways. I feel like there's this this thing that he's doing that's speaking to so many people. I really like that dough Chi record, Like, I feel like the vibe that that's coming from that is really powerful. Yeah. God, I mean there's just like that's the thing. It's like the problem and the benefit of the digital age or whatever. There's there's so much great, so much great music, but

it's almost like this title wave. Yes, yeah, you're trying trying to hold on to any of it, you know, it's all there's just like so much for sure.

this Bob Dylan song going to Alcapolca. I was like, that's one of my favorite Dylan songs. I love the Basement tapes and I love that that era of Dylan. So we popped over to this studio and Colexico had already recorded the music and I sang the track and it all worked out, and then we flew out to Montreal to film the scene. I was like painting. I had to paint my face to kind of be like the Rolling Thunder era Dylan, but I wasn't. I wasn't

like supposed to be him or anything. I'm just supposed to be this band leader that looks like him or reminds you of him from that era or whatever. And it was so funny because I took the white face paint. The makeup lady came and gave me the face paint, and they're like, and I knew that era of Dylan or whatever. She's like, so I'll let you put the paint on or whatever, you know, and I like was so nervous and so terrified. I wanted to do a really great job to put all this light paint all

over my face, like so much. There's like, you know, probably like two inches of paint sticking on my face. And she comes back in and she's like, geez man, She's like, you don't have to do that much. She's like, let's get because if he would have done it, he probably just would have you know, put it on pretty quick or whatever. And I was it was just such a funny moment of like that thing, you know, that over perfectionist thing kind of coming in and biting you

in the ass, right, so funny. So like today she helped me, like, you know, we took some of it off or whatever, and it was amazing. It was just such a cool part to be a part of it.

that he wanted to play with everybody a lot. They're like, Dylan really wants to play with all the bands, and like we pictured ourselves sitting around the campfire at midnight, like let's learn all of desire or whatever, you know, all these like and of course we get to the tour. We don't see him, we don't hear from him, we don't meet him. You know, you you never even see him in catering or anything.

A couple hours until we're supposed to sit him, sit him with him, and you know, yeah, we're both like terrified and we're trying to learn the song. And in the bass player Tony he's like, he's like, let's do this in the key of D and I don't really know keys or anything. So we're like, okay, if we'd like learn it, and I swear like five minutes before we're supposed to go on, the guitar tech comes back and he's like, I think Dylan wants to do it and be flat. So we're like, okay, do you to

be flat? What is that? You know, we're like trying to figure out and I don't know the song well at all or whatever, you know, and then we's like go out, you know. I mean he was really nice on stage, you know, he welcomed us on stage or whatever, and we you know, stumbled our way through the song, and uh, we did. We did a couple of Revengdary Davis songs, and then we did the Weight by the band like four or five times, and every night he would change the key of that, so it was like

constantly going up and down. You know. It's like it was so wild. But it was so crazy because you never got to like spend any time with him or anything, like we didn't have a conversation or anything. But when we were playing with him on stage, one of the most unbelievable things I've ever seen, like like looking over it him and he is gone. I mean he's completely lost, Like his eyes were somewhere, you know, like tapped into

something that really was. I think that like we're all part of this you know, for lack of a better word, cosmic ocean or consciousness or whatever that I really believe we're all tied into and we're all just little nodes off the same a wall of electricity, or we're little

waves off the same ocean or whatever. And occasionally a person comes along that somehow their energy speaks to everybody, you know, in this different way, you know, like Dylan does, you know, and there's just this thing like being two feet away from him, you know, looking at him, when I was like I saw that wow thing or whatever. I guess that must be his connection to the thing, you know, because it was like really was no one

was there in his body. You know, It's like he was in that place that I think we all know that place musicians know it is the place when they're lost in great music, you know, and they're they're lost in the moment. And I think the place most of it us know at best is like in love, you know, making love or that at that part of life where you're, yeah, you are gone, you know, you've you've forgotten all about this human experience and you are lost in the energy

of love and God. And uh, that was one of the coolest things I've ever gotten to see is stand so close to uh, a hero like that and see that force was just it was unbelievable.

the energy is so insanely for us. Or seeing Jonny Mitchell at the Hollywood Bowl last year, you know, just in the audience, you know, like not I'm like and I've always really loved and respected Jonny Mitchell, but it's never fully been my thing. It's never fully spoken to me fully deeply, because a lot of it, honestly just feels kind of over my head. It's very complex and very layered, and a lot of times I really so

much respect and so much beauty. But seeing her, the unbelievable energy coming out of her, of like she's seen it all and lived to tell the tale now and you're seeing her in person all almost like she's she's all of the energy of everything that's ever happened in the history of mankind or whatever is like coming out of her as she sits on her throne. And it's like I kept getting this vision of her as like the power of like Marlon Brando and the Godfather or wherever,

you know. But it's like, but like ten thousand Marlon Brandos, you know, just like the power coming off her just like I mean, like I couldn't believe it, you know, It's just like that's one really inspiring thing too that we talk about a lot as a band is like you see these people that really show you the age doesn't matter the way we think it does, and age is relative, you know, and nobody can help the help complications they may have, or if you have bad health

or something happens to you, you know, obviously nobody can change or help that. But beyond that, seeing the Rolling Stones, I've seen them four or five times in the last few years, just unbelievable, you know, like they're not over the hill, old guys. You know, they're the greatest rock and roll band of all time and they're still alive. Yeah,

and they're still blowing your mind, you know. Or you see Neil Young saying that still blowing your mind, you know, like still and that kind of stuff is just so inspiring. I've talked with the Specimen in the day. It's like we're all the first to see rock and roll grow old. Like this is all so new, Yeah, you know, it's all so new, and there's so many people like Jimmy Hendricks or whatever who died, or John Lennon who died

or whatever. But then there's still so many people like Paul McCartney or like I still have gotten to hear Keith Richards ripped my mind in half with Gode. You know when he hits some big you know, it's just like.

been more beautiful. And simultaneously, I feel like the more sober I've gotten in peaceful I've gotten, the harder the travels become. So it's been like this this crazy, uh back and forth thing of like oh my god, like I cannot sleep on the bus anymore, you know things like that where you're.

five years or so, this both hand things. And I think about that and it's like touring is this huge both and you know, it's like I've never loved playing shows more and I've never not enjoyed traveling more, you know. All the same time, it's like the travel is just so difficult for me. But it's like, but it's part of the what I mean, what can you do until they get the teleporter and then it we gotta do it.

thing and an exercise thing and a music thing. And you know, it's like this series of like simultaneously getting relaxed and getting excited, you know, and like getting your voice warmed up so much energy and then we have a we always do a huddle, you know, and get our band energy going. And and I I asked Alice Coltrane a long time ago if we could use a piece of her music to as our walk on music,

to kind of bless the stage. So there's this really cool piece I cut together of a couple of her instrumental portions that I feel like, is this really cool like thing that kind of comes out and like clears the energy of the stage before we come on. So yeah, just things like that. I try to pray. I try to really pray to the energy of the day and whatever forces might be there that just then it is what it is, and I can accept that, you know that.

I hope it's a great experience for the audience, and I hope that it's a great experience for us, And I hope that I imagine the whole venue surrounded in like a golden light, and like try to imagine all of us surrounded in like some kind of protective, healing light.

But then simultaneously, like, please help me accept whatever doesn't go right, Yeah, because that's going to happen too, you know, like because that's so so much out of your control when you step on the stage, you know, it's like and that's part of it, I think, is trying to accept that.

Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and acthlete listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app or Theme Music's back any beats.