Jessie Ware

Pushkin. Jesse Ware has always moved between worlds. She's a British soul singer who spent the early part of her career making intimate, understated records. Then in twenty twenty, she released What's Your Pleasure and morphed into a full blown disco goddess. The record received widespread critical acclaim, earned Jesse her first top three album on the UK charts, and

With the new album super Bloom. I think it is so brilliant how you are approaching life as a woman, you know, women in our forties. It's like you're so often getting struck with these messages about sort of like withering and drying out, and here you are, you know, in this super Bloom, and you're creating this world that's relishing in pleasure and sensuality. Were you conscious when you were making the album that you were sort of flipping those tropes on their head?

No, I don't think I was.

Actually I think I I was just writing and writing and writing, and then the songs that made the my sense together and that I feel like, then then the theme becomes apparent, you know what I mean, it's kind of you're writing, you're you know, And I think that the story you tell with how you sequence the record or how you know, how you position these songs, like what journey do you want to take them on? Like

I was thought of as a pop star.

But I don't feel like I am necessarily the most kind of obvious pop star, So then that was a kind of confusion. I didn't want to make a big statement, but I just wanted to feel confident enough to do this. And I think the reaction to these songs and the kind of confidence has been like amazing, and the reaction to the music video for Ride has been kind of resoundingly.

And I think, wow, I'm in that.

I'm in that age where we're not allowed to We're apparently not allowed to do things.

But I do think things are changing.

Maybe yeah, I just feel inundeated, like you know, even on social media, like the algorithm is pushing like weighted vers glt ones, yes, like all this stuff, and I love that You're just kind of like, you know, fuck are that. I'm in this world where I just feel good and I'm I.

Do feel good. I feel really good, and I don't. I feel fulfilled, I feel confident, I feel good. I feel lucky to do a job that I am excited by the change every day. I feel a bit tired, but like that's okay. Yeah, I feel excited. I feel inspired. I feel lucky to have a family. I feel lucky that I can walk down the street and not get papped, Like, I feel lucky that I then get to go and wear mad costumes and sing my heart out on stage

Yes, I really do get your death experience, and.

You saw the yeah, I yeah, I just I And I don't want it to be like happy clappy, like oh, like it's hard, but it's also a gift that I get to do this job that so many people would want to do, and I get to create these worlds, and I get to invite people in, and I get to have a conversation with an audience, you know, and I get to like be artistic.

It's like the greatest feeling in the world, you know.

My daughter, I've got like a couple of vinyls and my daughter's there looking at it and she's like, this is cool, and I.

Was like, first, it is cool.

I've got to get your kid to think you're cool.

I know she definitely doesn't think I'm cool, but she looked at it and she was like studying it and I looking at the pictures and she knows the songs, but she was like, this is really cool.

And I was like, you're right, it is cool.

And it's been hard work and I love it, and I love that my family like acknowledge that, Wow, we have a good time and we can have a good time working.

Yes, So when you were recording a song like Ride and you're in the studio, is it hard to get into like a sexy place when it's just you and no? Tell me, like what's the dynamic with who's in the room, Like how's it working?

I find it really easy, and I don't think. Firstly, I'm usually I'm pretending to be somebody else. So if it was me, oh my god, I vomit.

Do you know what I mean?

So in songs like Ride or Sauna or even don't you know who I am? Or mister Valentine, I'm not Jesse, mum of three doing the school drop off, you know, making a sour dough. No, I'm a fucking bad bitch, and I am not me, and I have a nay, a different name, and I have a different posture and stance, And in my head, I'm like Grace Jones, Madonna, Lady Garga, Marilyn Monroe.

I'm all of those women. Shaka, I'm those people.

I love that.

So I don't know if that makes me authentic or not.

But I remember doing a piece on Donna Summer, who I think was amazing.

I was doing a piece on Radio four for.

Her, and I read her memoir and I read about how she pretended to be a character.

For I Love to Love You.

So she's like, then, apparently she was trying to be somewhere between Marilyn and Mickey Minnie Mouse. Oh yes, so there was this character that she was trying to be. And so I'm sure when Donna was in the room, who was like a lovely church girl, and she's saying, oh, it's like she's not she's not been Donna, do you know what I mean? She's being another person and that's I guess acting. I don't know it's just fun.

Whatever works. I feel like, looking at your career and sort of reading the story that's been written about you in the press, it seems like something happened, some sort of change happened after your third album, Glasshouse, came out. Between Glasshouse and What's Your Pleasure Tablemanners started, but there was some it seems like there was some sort of change in that period. Does that seem accurate?

Yeah, I mean, I mean I had a one year old when Glasshouse came out. I finished touring it quite quickly that kind of summer, so then I had a kind of nearly two year old, and I had had the idea to start a podcast from when I was pregnant with my kid. So that was like I remember we had this conversation with my best mate on Year's Eve of two thousand and six, fifteen. He was like, you should do a podcast, and I was like, oh, yeah, But I think I started the podcast as I was

Okay, that's what I was going to ask you, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I already knew at the end of touring in the States. I knew who was going to produce it, I knew it was I knew exactly what I wanted to make. I wanted to make this kind of dance disco record. I wanted to work with very few people. I wanted to A and R. I wanted to do all of that, and so that was always going to happen. But I think with the success of the podcast, it just made me slightly more confident totally.

I just love the fact that you had this time where you found yourself. And I'm sure it didn't happen overnight, but the podcast started, the podcast took off. Then you A and R. What's your pleasure, which is you sort of like setting the entire scene and designing the whole thing, right, Yeah, you finding the sound and making it happen.

Listen, like James Ford cannot be ignored in that process, and Shin Goodzo and Danny Parker. We were the core group and it was the most magical time I think I've ever had in the studio where I felt so free. I felt the opportunities and like the possibilities of creation felt endless, and so there was no having to hang

And we would work.

We would work, but we would have fun and we would escape, but we would also talk about real life and engage in family. And I think I felt not bruised, Yeah, I think, But I think I felt like I had to do it.

On my own terms.

Yeah, because if this was the final time, then I had to really really believe in every single beat and melody and word on that record, and that like worked out for me, and then you know, and then you just carry on doing that, and then like your confidence grows, and then I'm always aware that I never want it to be arrogant, and I also really want people's opinions still. I just know whose opinion I need, Yes, somebody with no agender.

Do you feel like there could possibly be another sort of like sound or theme shift at this point in your career, like could you possibly go into like after it seems like what's your pleasure that feels good? And even the new album super Bloom could sort of be thought of as a trilogy maybe part of the same world. Do you ever could you ever go into an entirely new world?

I mean an entirely new world would be me like doing a folk album, I think yes, or like a rock album and never say never, but I don't. I don't think I'm doing any of them anytime soon. I may pull in moments of that, but I think I found I found, I found my genre, and I found my place in music, and I've found my sound. And whilst I want to evolve that always and I don't ever want to feel like I'm totally repeating myself, I do think that there is strength in an artist understanding themselves.

I went to her. She doesn't like to call it a retrospective, but she's.

Got an exhibition on at the Tate Modern and you see her work from the nineties and she has remained true to her art and her openness and her form, and that's really I love that because I love everything about what she does. But I don't need Tracy Emmen to go and I want her to feel fulfilled and inspired and push things. But also there's something really beautiful about how she has this strength and autonomy and identity.

Yeah, I read that before you started working in music, so I guess before you were a backup singer, before that all started, you worked in journalism. You're a reporter. You worked at the Jewish Chronicle and did some sports journalism. Is that true?

Barely?

But like sure, yeah, yeah, what was the sports journalism? I mean, I wanted to be a football journalist. I was football mad and it's so funny, like I was obsessed with Manchester United and you know football, And so when I was sixteen, I got work experience on the Daily Mirror and I went and followed with this great journalist called Darren Williams and he just really let me get involved and we had a really great time, and I was like, this is the best job ever.

You get to go to.

Football matches and like just write about football and talk about football all the time. And it's so strange because like my love for football is just like really weirdly gone away. And I was obsessed with it from like nine to about my thirties, and then I don't know whether it's like I don't have enough capacity to be able to have it, but it's like I know it could be a great form of escapism, and I just

But is it something where like the game has changed, has the role because I know in basketball may wait.

And like my husband would say, it's because I'm a glory hunter, and it's not that because United are doing so crap, but I mean they're not doing.

As badly as Spurs.

But I just think I also we were in this like beautiful time of Manchester United and it was a class of ninety two and it was like, you know, Ryan Giggs, Nicky Bart, David Beckham, Paul Skulls, it was like these amazing player. Gary Neville was like this amazing time for the youth team, and so I kind of was young and they'd were young and I watched them grow up and was obsessed with them. But yeah, I kind of want to fall back in love with it.

The time for at the moment.

Did you play?

No? I was crap. I wasn't very sporty. No, yeah, so.

How did it switch? So if you were working, it sounds so like at age sixteen working with the Daily Mirror, like.

That's all my work experience is like for two weeks in the summer. Two weeks okay, Yeah, it wasn't even a job like I went and did My dad was a journalist, and then I went and did like a diploma in journalism where you have to kind of get this diploma, and then I kind of, you know, it was very short lived.

I really kind of.

I worked in a television company and I wanted to kind of make documentaries and stuff like that, and it's just kind of, yeah, people work very very hard in those industries and there's like not as many jobs anymore.

You can say it's hard.

So how did the how did music start to come into it? Was it just like messing around with friends or how did you make the jump.

So I'd like sung at school, and I'd always kind of been in the musicals and i'd sung in like a funk band at university, like as a backing singer, like and you got paid fifty.

Quid per like Friday night.

And my friends were always come down and it was very much like I wasn't really doing anything with my voice. But my best friend Sarah was just like, you're really silly.

What are you doing. You've got this really good voice. And I was like, well, I don't.

I haven't written a song and I can't play, and I think I was just kind of too scared to give it a go. And it was my friend Jack Pinnarte, who you know, quit UNI and was just gigging and got signed by XL and I was so like, wow, this is amazing, Like he's just really worked hard and like he's such a star on stage. And then you know our friends who my childhood friends, a band called the Maccabees. They got signed too, So I was like surrounded by these friends that you know, hadn't been in

I was like that sounds really fun.

And I was single, and my mum was like, oh the Lord that we can just wait, like just go and do it, like defer go and be a backing singer for a year.

How cool is that she said that to you?

I mean, it was like the best advice she could. Yeah, yeah, yeah she was.

I think she knew that I was quite sensible, so I would have always just got a job.

I would have found a way to get a job.

It wouldn't have been like you know, but I really appreciate that because I think that, you know, if she'd been like, I think you should this sliding doors. So then from that, I did a session with an amazing artist called Subtract. But that was because my friend, who was playing bass and guitar in Jack's band, was like,

We'll be back with more from Jesse Ware after the break.

I want to ask you too about the evolution of your voice. How you see it because on the new album, after the you know, the intro, the little prelude, the song I could get used to this, your voice is now like completely pushed to the front of the mix and it's it's big and it's it's confident and you sound incredible.

Thank you.

So tell me tell me about the journey of your voice and how it evolved, and again, like how that confidence came and the work that you've done, because I'm sure it takes a lot of work.

I really wanted people to hear me on this record. I wanted them to hear every kind of aspect of my voice. I wanted to hear them up close and personal, like you hear at the beginning of I could get used to this, and that's kind of why I thought it was a great scene setter. And I'm inviting people to step into my secret garden and so it's like come along for the ride, and yeah, ushering them in, seducing them.

But I you know, there's a.

Key change in that, and I feel like that's the kind of thing that Shaka would have done. And so I was like, well, let's try a key change on this because I think I wanted to take some liberties, like musically, because I felt like I'd kind of earned my right to do that and have a bit more

Yeah, you sound so good?

Thank you?

Do you have a performance that you think like you just nailed it, Like it's what you were you set out to do on this new album.

I don't know.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I kind of feel like I definitely would still want to change a line how I've vocaled it. I think, don't you know who I Am has this kind of like madness with it that I wanted to across and like drama, and I really enjoy that one. I think that one's going to be really fun to perform and something I even write, you know, like having the confidence to make a synth melody that's any Marconi to be the hook I wanted to do.

I wanted to be.

Like, hang on, I don't need to Yeah, I'm going to join in and I'll do some big vocals. But like I wanted to have that confidence to be able to play with the music and the experience of listening to me.

What do you think you are best at as an artist? Like do you think it's the writing bit? Do you think it's the A and R ing production, thinking about tracks, thinking about sequencing? What do you excel at? Like where is your gift in the mix? The performance?

Of course, I think I've got better at songwriting. I don't think I'm the best in the room usually, but I have got so much better. But I think I can steer the ship really well. And I think I can that's A and R it. Yeah, And I think I have really improved as a songwriter because I've allowed myself to be more open and take more risks and listen to my gart and my taste and not apologize for that, do you know what I mean? But I do think my performance has come on. I still think

When you do the podcast and you sit down with other artists or even like someone like a Hillary Duff who's like very much a pop star and obviously she does a lot more than just sing. But do you ever is there ever a part of you that sort of like comparing notes or do you ever get sort of like jealous or competitive? Does that happen in the room.

I don't think jealous or competitive.

I definitely somebody like Shaka Khan, I'm just like I want to know everything, or like Tracy Thorn from Everything but the Girl.

I remember just like.

Really doing a very different, less fun interview because I just wanted to know how she did this and how she did that.

But it's complete curiosity with Hillary.

You know, I didn't know much of her music and I didn't know her story really, so kind of learning about that when I was researching and then listening to that album, which I thought was really accomplished, that was really fascinating, and thinking about this, you know, this pop star that kind of paved the way for so many other girls to kind of do a similar thing. So I'm kind of always just greedily. I take things from

Hillary.

Hillary so sweetly like we've really got on and I was like, yes, no, we had a rapport, and I'm sure she can flirt with anyone.

I'm sure Duff is good at this.

But she sent me I feel like, but I feel like me and Hillary Duff are kind of dating at the moment, because she sent me a present. She sent me this gorgeous salt and pepper like Mills grind it. Wow, I saw these, Thanks for having me, like sent in a book. Had the best time, felt so at home, could have been there all day, Like thought these were good in your kitchen.

Oh, daff I like this.

I like this style of of you know, courting me, and maybe I'll send you back a good shardon a so you have to.

Drink that because she doesn't like today so good. Yeah, you have a great thing going and it feels so authentic and I love it. I love watching I couldn't start watching Maya Rude Alph. I was like, I can't turn this off.

She's amazing.

And I loved seeing you ask about her mom because I know many Riperton is such a big influence on It was like, is she going to ask.

You know what? I kind of didn't want to because you know, she lost her mum when she was quite young, I think, and I'm sure it's quite taxing having to kind of relive that grief, and so I was literally going to just say, I just want to say, like, your mum's a big influence on me, and at that I didn't want to kind of ask anything, and then she expanded on it and it was like I felt so lucky to be privy to this conversation and she was so generous with her words and she didn't need to,

Yes, yeah, I do feel like.

I acquire these really new, fabulous friends from like having a date with them over my food or my mum's food.

How has just interviewing people, like doing the podcast, doing table manners, how has it changed how or has it changed how you view being the person who's being interviewed, like when you're doing this promo cycle, Like has it changed how you are in interviews?

I think it's made me understand the job that the interviewer has to do more. Yeah, but it definitely doesn't make me feel like I'm so bored of myself talking. That's the thing, Like I'm even talking on the podcast or I'm talking in the But then also I know it's a very short lived time that you promote a record.

It's such a necessary part of it, unfortunately.

But I think the requirements of artists these days, it changes every time you do a record, and I do feel like we have to be.

Everything.

It's not so straightforward. And that sounds like I'm feeling sorry for myself.

No, it's true, because you know, once you're in something for any career over ten years, you see sort of like the goalpost move And when you started out, promo I imagine was more going to radio stations or going to markets where maybe you were performing live. Now I see you doing these, you know, like Instagram things. You're walking down the street and you're talking about your outfit. Are you talking about your confidence or whatever it is.

Yeah, and I think you also have to have like an answer for every scenario so it doesn't become just about an album that you made, do you know what I mean?

They're not talking about the music. They're talking about more lifestyle.

No, but sometimes that's fun when they don't talk about the album, Like you know, Seth Myers, me doing Seth Myers. I've never chatted on Seth Myers, and like we're talking, he is talking about the album because he's talking about like ride and stuff. But like I also understand that, like that's not what everyone wants to hear on a

Pissed off totally.

Like then I'm like hang on, like because I think with the podcast that I that I do.

I used to not.

I used to really arrogantly be like, yeah, the whole thing about us is that we don't really prepare and and you know, because it's a conversation because I'm not a journalist, And that was kind of like my spiel because that's what I really believed. And then I was like, hang on, I'm having like the opportunity to interview somebody, so I need to take this more seriously. Like and

To read this novel whilst also.

I know that I haven't done enough listening to his last record, and so this is the thing where I'm like, this is quite a lot. I know.

It's also really fun by the way, and I'm not trying to.

Come but there's always so many hours in the day.

There is.

But so when I'm like, I go on a podcast or I go on something and then they're like, yeah, I haven't heard the record yet, I'm.

Like, are you fucking kidding me?

Like yeah, and.

I'm not going to be a diva and I'm not going to walk out, and I'll still give him a good interview. But I'm like, come on, mate, Like that's just a bit shit.

Yeah, no, I feel that, And it's it's so interesting because there are a lot of people who, like I think even Larry King was like that, Like he didn't want to do research because I think he wanted it to be more of a spur of the moment interview. And sometimes that's fine, yeah, yeah, and it can be totally fine, but I do think that like the expectation, like you were saying for the like short clips that you're hoping will kind of like pop off online. Like that's really a lot of pressure.

I mean the thing with the clips on like Seth was glorious to do because he's just the warmest, best interviewing so you can just have fun with him. But like, and I and I think that, you know, I do feel lucky that I get to be put in the room with people and I get to do these interviews, you know, like I'm doing your podcast. You know, for me, this is a real honor to do this on this

And the relationship with your mom now that you're working with your mom, were you always close growing up? Is this a strange development now that you're now so close?

No, we were always close. Yeah, I think we were always quite similar. That was kind of like what everyone said. We were very sociable and yeah, people said that we were the closest and kind of like character and working

She's like, don't you dare film me? And she's like one second, I've got to speak to the doctor. And then she's like the diva has walked in.

And I'm like they're trying to finish the audiobook but also trying to watch like another episode of Friends, and I'm like trying to finish the cookies and stuff, and she's she's just being a diva and I'm like, Lenny, can you just be polite today?

That's all I ask?

And then you check her on it and then she's like okay, fine, and then she turns into like being mum.

She's like, mum, darling, what can I do for you? Darling? Can I do?

And then she wants to be mum. But I think I do ask quite a lot of her. You know, she's seventy four and she's like required to do you know, sometimes.

Two podcasts a week. She also works, still does she?

Yeah?

And what does she do for work?

She's a social worker? Oh wow, wow, that's cool.

No, wonder you do so much shit, Jessie, your mom.

Look at Lenny.

My brother is a doctor and my mom's a social worker. I'm just a fucking singer.

Like you know, No, but you do so you take on so much or such a go getter. I mean, I feel like it runs in the family.

We do.

Yeah, no, I definitely like to take on shiit but like lucky to But yeah, I think sometimes it just you know, I have to give my mom some grace that like I've made her do this podcast that is really I know, she loves it and she loves meeting people like her meeting Harlan Coben, she was just like the best, and you know she does she loves it.

But also it isnt it's a job, you know, it's.

Like, well, last break and we'll be back with Jess.

Where what is your usually your process with writing and with creating these songs, Like is this something that you set apart time every day? Do you write when the inspiration hits you or do you have to sort of like carve out time and leave your house.

I'm kind of always writing ideas in my phone, which is so unromantic.

I need to like have my notebook with me.

No, it's so common though, notes that it's like yeah, and it's just the media, like and so a lot of it comes from like making playlists on my Spotify and kind of just being inspired by like soaking up music and kind of studying and listening and just trying to I think it's really hard. You have to constantly remind yourself to listen to music for like enjoyment and pleasure rather than like studying and research, you know what I mean. But equally, it always kind of happens if

And I think that's been something that's really great.

The producers might enjoy that too, like maybe that's fun for them to try and find the parts that are you know, resonated or whatever.

And I think, like you know, on Ride, I took the unbared beautiful hold my Hips Watch Move That was from a song that I wrote with James and Coffee and another session that was not going to go anywhere, but that felt so amazing and sexty and I was like, I think that would work in this song, and they were cool about that. So I think that's also something that you can play around with. It's a bit of a jigsaw puzzle totally.

Is there anything that I didn't ask you specifically about the album that you want to talk about, or any aspect of making the album that you wanted to talk about.

I think you know.

The fact that I have allowed the listener into my private life a bit more is quite newfound territory for me. I'm very protective of my children, and that sounds like a contradiction because I've now got them on a song.

But sixteen Summers.

Sixteen Summers, my little son is at the beginning of that, and then there's a song called love You for where they all got a little moment on the beginning, and for me, that was really quite a selfish thing that I was like, I want us to listen to that in twenty years and be like, do you remember you a.

Little hyghe bitch sweet voices before they rocked?

And you know, for me, it's about these memories and trying to celebrate the fact that I try my hardest to try and do my best in doing it all, and that is a hard thing and I definitely am not getting it right all the time. But for them to be able to be in my world and come to the office for the day. So that was something that was really sweet and special. But also I was like, I think I'm more confident as an artist to be

I'm like I wanted to present.

A tiny part of my beautiful family that I'm so lucky to have and that they can't they don't have to be exclusive, like they can be together and it can be a beautiful thing. Whilst before I was so scared of that, you know, And so that was something that I wanted to kind of celebrate.

I wanted to ask you because I know that you ask people on tablemailers if they were going away to the to the desert island, what's your last meal? If you were going away to a desert island, what albums would you bring with you to listen to? You to listen to and desert island.

Discs, Okay, I'd bring probably like Shah Day, Diamond Life.

I'd bring.

Like, I'd bring one of those really NAF, like not even greatest hits of it's not NAF. I used to have this Stevie Wonder CD. It was the same day that I bought Deangela's Brown Sugar that I would also take, and it was like it went from little Stevie Wonder like when he was like playing to kind of all his stuff. But I definitely it wasn't full albums. It

Okay, is there anything else I didn't ask you about that you want to talk about?

But thank you so much. It's been really nice to chat to.

Here, so nice. Thank you so much. And yeah, congrats on everything.

The album is incredible, such a pleasure.

Okay, thank you all right, have a really good day. Bye, see you later.

Thanks guys.

Bye.

In the episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of our favorite songs from Jesse Ware, including her new album super Blue. Be sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see all of our interviews, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record pot. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with the marketing and helps from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Talody.