Pushkin.
Jerry Cantrell has been the lead guitarist and songwriter for Alison Chane since the band formed in nineteen eighty seven. By the mid nineties, after a run of multi platinum albums, Alice secured their spot as one of Seattle's Big four grunge bands, along with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Nirvana. Legend has it that the band's early whirlwind of commercial success wreaked havoc on the personal and professional lives of the band.
In two thousand and two, lead singer Lane stay overdosed and died after more than a decade of battling drug addiction. Admits the turmoil, Jerry Cantrell found solace in continuing to write and release music, both as a solo artist and as a member in Alison Shane's He's Never Stopped Playing. In twenty twenty one, he released his critically acclaimed solo album Brighton, followed by last year's hard rock opus I
Want Blood. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Jerry cant about how he's drawn to the art that exists in the Shadows. He also talks about how getting sober over twenty years ago, as influenced to songwriting, and he remembers the time he tried to pass the demo tape to Axel Rose, only to see a security guard throw it in the trash. This is broken record Liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman.
I wanted to ask you a couple questions about the new album I Want Blood. Yeah, it's your fourth full length album, released back in October. I was curious, now that the album is out and you've had a chance to sort of like hear what people are saying about it, is there anything that you've heard that surprised you, Like anything people are picking up on or noticing.
I mean, I'm really I'm really digging that people are connecting with it.
You know.
That's that's always the It's always the first goal. You know, you start off every every song or you know, or a collection of songs or album, you're trying to kind of satisfy an audience of one or or or five the group of you, you know what I mean. So it's really trying to make something that you guys are excited about or I'm excited about. And uh, and so that that box obviously obviously gets checked with its decision to release because I wouldn't put something out that I
didn't think was good. Yes, so that the box for me is checked. I was really I'm really satisfied with and really excited about the songs and the energy, the performances, the people that I got to create this music with.
And the thing that I guess I'm grateful for is that people seem to feel like there's a see that there's a lot of challenge to this the writing and execution of the album, and and that makes me feel good because I certainly felt like my face was pressed against the ceiling of my abilities on all levels of this album, you know, singing, writing, producing, you know, And that's a good play us to be. You want to be in a slightly uncomfortable, like hey, WHOA can I
pull this off? Kind of headspace because you you were allowing yourself to grab stuff that you didn't know was attainable, or reach a branch that you might not even be be reaching for, you know what I mean, But like you just feel like you're flailing about and some and that's where you find some really cool stuff, you know, instead of trying to be safe. And I've I've never really gone about making music with that mindset. I'm not trying to recreate old tunes or old records or or
rep myself. I'm trying to make something new that I that I haven't made before, you know, and you can always count on you can always count on sounding like yourself. I can't really do anything else. And so that's that's a that's a bonus, you know, to be able to have that sort of a thing that's identifiable, I guess, and that breeds you up to go where, but the
hell of music wants to take it. So it's uh, it's as much a surprise to me every time I end a project and put it out, because I had no idea or intention of what it was going to be before I started.
Do you ever give yourself props?
Like if you do get to a place where you're pushing yourself creatively emotionally, do you take time to sort of like congratulate yourself or you always sort of just like have like this self critical voice in your head.
Yeah. Well, I mean after I'm done working on a record, I don't listen to it a whole lot. But since starting up a new tour here in about a week, I'm going through all the materials, so I've been revisiting it, or you'll run into people and they'll kind of talk to you about I don't know, maybe the impact that
it's having on them. That's something that they really dig and so then then then you're brought back to that that mind frame and that discussion, and that always feels good, you know, like, yeah, made a good record, that that's what you're trying to do, and and it's fun revisiting it. It still holds up. I'm not sick of it yet, so that's always a good sign too.
Has getting feedback from people from fans about the way that certain songs have impacted them. Does that change the way you talk to musicians about songs of theirs that you love.
You know, it's really personal what what an artist's music means to me. You know, I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of shared stuff what it means to them too, But it's also going to be pretty personal to them. And I might not know all the details, nor do
I need to know all the details. I just need to know that it means something to me and the particular story or slant that I took it ass you know, and you know the few conversations I've had with with writers about particular songs, And you know, I'll be hanging with you know, Billy Gibbons or something a couple of weeks ago, and I'll ask them about mechanic, you know, like what the hell are you is on here? And blah blah blah, and it sounds like a piano but
it's a guitar. And like, you know, I'll be wrong a lot of the times, you know what I mean. So like it's always it's always surprising to get somebody's personal take on it. At the flip side of that coin, it's also cool leaving the mystery there and leaving some space for for the creation of your own story to it, to connect to a piece of music or art or film or whatever it is. You know, a play, a book.
You know, I know that you and Duff mccagan are good friends. You guys play music a lot together. You guys hang out watch football the first time. Like when you first started hanging out with Duff, what did you ask him about Guns N' Roses?
Uh? Boy? I think I probably told him, Like when I when I finally connected with this band, I mean I was aware of the band, and a lot of my favorite bands I don't like instantly, you know, yeah, and so because they were so huge and blowing up. I mean, I like, I like rock and roll, and they had roots of all the stuff I love, Aerosmith and you know, good funky R and B fucking nasty rock and roll and uh so, you know, overtly, I liked it and it was blowing up, but I didn't
connect with the record. And I think I listened to it for about a week, and I don't know I was I think I told him a story. I was living in an apartment downtown behind the Seattle Center, and I still hadn't connected to the record. So I decided to drop acid and listen to the whole thing one more time. And I decided on that trip, and I listened to the record of I still didn't like it. I was going to throw it out the window. And by the time, by the time Rocket Queen came on
that base, the drums in the bass got me. That's when it all came into focus. And I was just coming on to an acid trip. And I think I told him that story that was it was a good one, and I got it the doors of perception when we're open. Yes, and I connected because the thing that got me was his base ref Yeah totally. You know.
Oh that's super cool.
Wasn't there a story that you were at like a gun show and you gave a demo to Axel?
Oh? Yeah? Uh. Like all young artists, you know, sometimes you run onto somebody that's one of your heroes and you pass them on your demo tape or whatever. Yeah. I was actually like, I say, I live right behind the Seattle Center and that's where they were playing. So yeah, I handed it to his security guard and his security guard threw it away as they were walking. So it was an Axles fault. Now. I told Axel that story too, and we laughed about that as well.
So well, at least it wasn't him, It was a security.
Guard that was a security guard. Yeah.
I was having this debate with someone who I work on this show with, and I wonder what, I'm just curious what your answer would be, who do you think is the best American rock band?
Oh? Man, I'm all I'm still bad with best.
Yeah, I know, I know me too.
It's an impossible statement, you know what I mean? You want to be one of the best, you know, and there's so many American American rock bands, just America. Yeah, so you can throw out a couple.
I'm just curious where your brain goes.
Oh, I don't know. I mean, like, you know, Aerosmith's got to be up there, pretty close to top of the list, you know, GNR, Metallica, those are pretty good ones. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's good. We were saying.
Also, he brought up Grateful Dead and the Beach Boys.
Yeah, I'd go with the Beats. I you know, I appreciate the Dead, and I'm sure you've had this experience. There's dead Heads, and then there's people that don't get the Dead, and none one of the Beats never got the Dead. I appreciate them as musicians and I respect full respect for the connection they have with their fans, but it just never really spoke to me. Beast Boys, Yeah, for sure. You know, Beast Boys were early Beast Boys is badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Okay.
Let me ask about a couple of the songs on the new album.
The opening track Vilified.
Can you just tell me the story about how that came together and especially that I love the like little the hey, yeah, the repeating bit. It's so catching and it's so good and it's sort of like reminiscent of some old Alice songs. I thought, so tell me about writing and arrange that one.
Well, the music is, it's a it's a really bizarre piece of music. And it's in like six and seven and I think maybe maybe there goes a section that goes to eight too, So it's weird time signatures. It's just four and a half half minutes of fury. You know,
once it once it starts, it does not stop. And I remember coming up with it in two sections, both at a sound check once when I was on tour with on the Brighton tour, you know, was I was messing around with with the riff and we were the band kind of jumped in with me and kind of
played it. And then and then on another sound check with Alice or a rehearsal room or something, I brought that up and I was like that that's a good one to file for file future use, and it ended up, you know, working out that it ended up on being on that record. But it's it's just weird, but it's also really kind of got a pop element. To it as well. It's just a weird psycho metal pop song. Uh,
and it's got a lot of energy. And you know, the last two records I've done Brighton and I Want Blood, two things have happened for me, and I don't know if it's going to continue. But it's odd because I never know what the record is going to be called. And tell way, like when everybody's like, what the hell are you going to call this thing? So it's a
last thing that you normally come up with. And on both of these records, I had the title right out the bat, importantly because I had written Vilified and I had also written bright and then I'm like, those are great, you know, and those are great songs. It gives it's a good title for the body of work. It seems to be a good descriptor you know what I mean. So that Villified was a contender, you know, for an album titled. But I guess my point being, I knew
what I was going to call them. I knew what the how the albums were going to open, and Vilified was always the open opener and it comes the closer. So I came in almost with eight out of nine songs in the position that they're on. I had them written out in order like how the album was going to go, and it ended up being pretty close in the mark on brighton and I want uh and uh vilified. I mean, it's just, you know, there's I think that we're living in a really interesting time, you know what
I mean. And I think that we're I think that everybody's everybody's got an opinion, and is is a rush to share it with everybody and at each other's throats and pointing fingers and and uh, you know, we're dealing with dealing it with a different time, with a new time, with new toys and new technology, and and I don't know that we've necessarily learned how to use all that stuff mainly, Yeah, no, And maybe that song is just kind of like a like pointing out that fact and
maybe being a call to you know, be a little cooler with each other, be a little more accepting.
And then how did you come up with that the catchy bit?
You know? It just it always starts with the music. So generally it always starts with the music. I'll get the music together. So I got those three parts, the main riff and then the and then the the B section with the dead you know, and then the then the slow you know, slow stomp that comes after that. So I'm like, this is a good song. And then you get that together and it can happen really quickly
with sections, and while you're listening. I do a lot of listening in my car old school, So yeah, I listen to the demos that we've made or or sometimes write off the battle just pop pop, a good vocal, I'll have a vocal idea that will go through my head, so I'll singing some nonsense, nonsense lyrics to get the melody lined down until it works, you know, and then the next one, what the fuck are you trying to say with that melody? So that's usually that's the very last thing the subject matter.
Are you conscious of when you hear a new song, like, not a new song of yours, but somebody else's song, Like, are you conscious of what part of the song you pay attention to most, whether it's the lyrics or the melody or you know, a certain instrument.
There's so much freedom in music, you know. I mean basically, if you look, if you're kind of break down songwriting to structure, you know, you're talking about intro, a verse, a bridge, a chorus, and maybe like a middle eight, you know, so that that's the thing. But there's so much ways, so many ways you can play with that and sounds and and and what somebody is trying to get across. And you know, I'm a big fan of film.
I still watch tons of movies, and you know, good movies, crappy movies, doesn't matter, like I just like movies, and music is a big part of film and the storytelling of that. So so of course I'm always keyed into the music aspect of telling a story. And that's really what I'm trying to do is make a little mini movie by writing a song, you know, like a little scene. I want to be transported to some place that that I've never been to, or or maybe be reminded of
a place that's familiar to me. Like, hey, that's kind of cool, you know, like that brings me back to this thing, and that's fucking cool. I like that, you know, And it's a shared experience. But you know, there's there's only twelve notes and and there's you know, basically, songs are three parts, three or four parts, and you know the math of it is is pretty simple, but but it's so so intricate and unique and the way that ever the lens of everybody, that all of that flows through,
those basic elements flow through it. And when somebody's able to put those into like a song that makes you feel and takes you on a ride or makes you want to play it again, like call somebody and go like, man, have you heard this? Man? You know that that that that's cool? Man? You want to be part of that story? And I think that's I think that's what we're all trying to do.
Can you remember the last song that you were super moved by that maybe you shared with someone else or you couldn't stop listening to.
I mean, I'm in I'm in me mode right now. Yeah, So I haven't really you know, I haven't really listened to a whole lot of stuff. But I was watching I was watching The Accountant last night, and there's like a really cool I Forget the This with Ben Affleck. He's like some like a autistic hit man kind of dude. And oh wow, but there's a song in that soundtrack and I can't remember off the top of my head what it was. And also up in the air I might be in a R bock tune. It's fucking cool
as shit. I really like. I like the Black Keys a lot. They're they're really talented. And then watching the Agency and it's it's got that great Jack White song in it too. He's pretty fucking badass as well.
Yeah, he is badass.
I think I heard you in another interview talking about an album he did where there was like an EP, like hidden in the album.
Yeah, inside the grooves of the album another it there's an album groove, and then inside the album of that groove is an EP. That's so cool. I've never heard of anything like that. That's like how that dude's brain works.
Yeah.
Is there any other genre of music outside of rock that you are fanatic about or that you just know a lot about.
I just like good music, man. I don't care about the style, man, I like I like Who's I like R and B, I like even I even like some hip hop, you know, I like soul, o the country, like jazz, like metal, you know. I mean, yeah, I like classical. You know, some classical ship. It's just fucking amazing, you know what I mean, It's still great and what you know it it's it's such a personal music is such a personal thing, like what what connects? I'm not
like hunting for stuff. I'm only hunting when I'm trying to make something myself. You know. It's just like the rest of life is just you know, lucky happenstance. When when you turn on the radio, or you see something in a movie, or you or you go to a show and or you're playing a bill at a at a festival and a band comes on and kickshaw that you don't know about, Like holy shit. I mean, that's
that's the cool part. Somebody's there's a lot of us out there still doing it, and that gives me a qlope the reason why I do it in the first place. You know, it's not supposed to speak to everybody, but it's it finds its people, you know. I mean, each each band, each each song, each piece of music someone somewhere. It's kind of eternal in a respect, at least longer than a lifetime. I don't know if it's like yes, all time eternal, but once it's out there, it's there
for people to find, you know, throughout the generations. And I think that's that's a pretty magical thing, and that aspect has never been lost on me. And so like anytime I hear something that that makes me feel or or like fuck, that's cool man, you know that that's a beautiful thing.
We'll be right back with more from Jerry Cantrell. After the break, We're back with more from Jerry Cantrell.
Do you have any tricks that help you unlock.
You know, if you're having like writer's block, or you don't know where to go with a song, if a part is missing. Do you have any things that you can sort of like trick yourself into coming up with ideas?
Uh, well, there's a there's a couple of ways you can go about it. Well, one one is leave it alone, walk away from it, you know, until if you just keep banging your head against it and it ain't happened and you can't fucking force it, you know what I mean.
But you still you can take a temps at it now and again when you when you like funk, that's cool man, It's but but if it ain't happening, leave it alone, move on to something else, you know, to go to somebody else, you know, go to go to Sean, go to Duff, go to Tyler go to Big or Max like like, yeah, what do you think about this? Man? I like, I don't have an idea here, like and and and bounce your bounce that off of people that you trusty creative people, and and that can that that
that's a good way to to jostle you. If it's not the part, it might be something to challenge you of like I can do better than that, you know what I mean? So whatever, something to shift you off of the dead space if you happen to find yourself on and then the third way is just to keep grinding, Just to keep grinding at it, you know what I mean. Lyrics for me are that that way. I always get block up on that stuff. The longest part of the
processes is the lyric writing. A lot of the time on this record, I was blocked on throw me a line.
I had a really great opening chapter for the story, and I had it set pretty good, and I had had a good intro, I had a good, good verse written down and in a B section, and then it came to the second version, I got completely blocked and I could I was blocked for a bit, and I went to a went and saw a film by Scorsese Killers of the Flower Moon has nothing to do with the song, but a couple of scenes in that movie knocked me out of something visually, and then I was
able to kind of continue the thread with that, kind of like the fire scene in the middle of that movie where they're kind of torching the fields and stuff like, Okay, I got it. So it's you know, go to another artist, you know, go to another artist, go to another medium you know that can that can knock you out of out of your out of your staleness and give you a fresh perspective.
You know, do you have to like take a voice note right as you're watching it?
So I do I talk it right into my phone, or if I hear something, I sing it, or if I play something, I record it immediately. As one another thing learned about the process, I've lost not a ton, not a ton because I've learned this lesson early on of like I'll remember that and then oh, right, what the tuck was that? You know what I mean? So I've always been a big recorder and a big documentary I call it riff mining, and so I make sure when I find a nugget, to make sure to make
a record of it, you know what I mean. Yeah, you can always come back to it and refer to it, you know, and an form that it actually exists, you know, to be able to refer to.
So yes, And then historically, how has it been for you? Have you had success writing lyrics or writing music or arranging anything with like drinking or like you know, some people can only write if they smoke some pot or whatever it is, Like, how has that been for you?
Well, I've done it both ways, and I've written some really good songs both ways. So I think both both ways work. You know, I've lived through a period of my life where it worked and then it didn't work. Yeah, so I try to try, which relates exactly to what we were just talking about with the block. If something's not working for me or you got to find a new way to do it, so you know, and that I went through that change personally about twenty one years ago.
And you know, I think I'm still still writing as impactful to me anyway, impactful weird, fucked up music like I made when I fucked up. So I don't really think that that's a requirement. It is part of the mythos of being a musician and an art I think everybody kind of asked to go through that period. I know, I knew that was attractive and appealing to me, even with all of the yeah, even with all of the signposts of early deaths and not working out for people like, hey,
that's not going to happen to me. You know, I'm sure they thought that too, right, you know what I mean. So I don't denigrate it. I don't put it down. I've been sober for twenty one years and I still wouldn't be able to get fucked up, you know what I mean? Because it is fun. It's fun getting outside. It's totally trippy hanging out with weird people, you know, just different scenarios, different different frames of mind that being high and getting fucked up can can put you in.
So I'm not going to put it down because I did it, and I and I did a lot of good stuff, but you know, at some point it stopped working for me. Luckily, I knew a lot of people that did what I that I did, referring to some of the guys in the the sort of playing with right after I got sober, Billy Morrison, Tomorrow, Matt's Arm Billy duppy, you know, the guys who'd been through through what I through partying and then gone through the other side of like, Okay, this doesn't work anymore. I got
to figure a new way to out to do this. Yeah, all those guys still rock as far as I've last checked, and I think I'm doing okay too as far as the music element. So you can. You can do it either way.
You know, was there a time in your life where you thought drug use was glamorous?
Oh? I don't know. I mean, it's just like I say, it's part of the part of the mythos and you're you're a young kid, so you're gonna you're gonna do all this stuff that young kids do. I'm not a young kid anymore. So I can't do what young kids do. It would fucking kill me. So I gotta do. Uh this version of me, which which I like very much.
I I like life. I like the consistency of life now, Like the ceilings are not as high, okay, but the floors are not as low either, so you know, I mean it's a little bit more even, and uh, I like that consistency.
So yeah, have you always been drawn two dark things? Like you said, like you can write equally as fucked up things now as you know back when.
But have you always been drawn to sort of like the dark arts.
Yeah, like horror movies, books like how far does It go?
Yeah? I think it goes really deep. I mean I was a huge horror fan. I mean, Stephen King is one of my all time favorite authors. I like material that has weight, that's dark, that has impact that shocks. You know. I love party music too, man, I just don't write it, you know what I mean. It doesn't connect to me as something I want to recreate. There's other artists and other bands that do it and do it well, and I enjoy it. I love that shit, man.
But I agree with you that, you know, I'm kind of drawn to things a little bit more in the shadows, and also something that's going to give you a good left turn or a good shock or a good punch to the face, or maybe confronting some things that are some things and emotions and situations that aren't easy to talk about. You know. I'm into music, you know, so I think that that's one of the aspects of music
that is so appealing to us weird little monkeys. You know, it's it's a way for us to share things with each other without actually ever you know, even if we have never met or you know what I mean, we can can still understand each other and communicate with each other and share stuff. And it makes the tough stuff easier, you know, because it's because it's shared. It also makes the good stuff even that much more fucking celebratory because
you know, we're all feeling that way. So I think that that's a pretty apt descriptor do you.
Remember as a kid when you started realizing that you were into dark stuff or when that started to when that just started overall?
I don't know when it started, you know dark to me, I don't know, it's I don't know that there's like a lot of connotations of that that that I would take exception to, Like, so like what dark? So it's it's just a it's a bummer, it's evil. I think the word for me that better is weight, something that's got substantial you know, like a big, greasy, bleeding cheeseburger, you know, you know what I mean? So uh Bord and I just we always talk about making big, greasy,
bloody cheeseburgers. We're fitting drub cheeseburgers. But what that is, that's the type of work we want to make. You know, it's a sloppy, fucking mess, and it should have some fucking on it. There's no reason it may not be nutritionally fucking the great for you, but it's just fucking primal, you know. So I've always been drawn to films, books, music like that, even classical type stuff when I was in school, So I guess that's the music. I tried to make my own version of it.
I saw someone refer to to you and laying your harmonies as the Devil's Everly Brothers.
Yeah, well I always liked that one. Yeah.
Do you remember the first time you guys sang together and what you realize like, was it like a revelation or did it sort of take some time to become what it was?
I mean, it always takes time in retrospect, it wasn't that much time. I mean we formed at the end of eighty seven, and we so basically basically eighty eight was where you know, we started actually, you know, playing gigs and stuff like that. We'd played our first gig at Caine Hall at the University of Washington in I think December of eighty seven, so, and we put our
first record out in ninety you know, FACELIOFS. So it wasn't really that long, but you know, we would just spend a lot of time jamming and you know, living together, like either in the rehearsal place or we had a band house, and you know, we were coming up with ideas and jam and stuff. And you know, I think Laine was a big fan of you know, harmony and different voices, you know, in the band. It was his actually suggestion that I actually sing more, you know, starting
from sap onward. You know, I started singing more and more at his suggestion, and I was completely happy just singing some singing backups and writing songs because we had him, you know, so but he was like that, you know, you should you should sing these two and you know, the Beatles is probably the best reference. There are many bands that come after the Beatles that are this blue print where there's more than one lead singer, more than
one writer, more than one lead voice. And I've always been a fan of bands like that, and so it was really cool to be able to develop into a band that kind of had that. Those Hallwarks you know, the either Lane could lead or I could lead, or when we sang together, you know, we created something bigger than the both of us, you know, and so like one plus one equals three, you know.
Yeah, when you meet super fans, when you meet Alice and Jane super fans, what are they usually curious about?
What do they ask you about?
What are they ask me about? I mean all sorts of stuff. It's cool, man, Like, you know, it's amazing that to have people that have connected to the work that you've been a part of, you know. So so you know this musical stuff, personal stuff, you know, stuff from the past. You know what's going on now. You know, generally everybody wants a picture. Yeah, sometimes that's an opportune time for me. So I always I always want to send somebody away with at least a hello, a handshake, and a guitar pick.
So I always have a yeah I saw somebody on Reddit who got a guitar pick.
I usually have a big pocket full of guitar picks. So so I've got something to give somebody. But you know, it's usually just a quick hello, how you do? And my head that that was cool? You know me.
Yea early on in the band.
How would you describe everyone in the band, like what their individual expertise was.
Well, I mean, I think I think all bands have a particular alchemy, and I think I think that a lot of the I think a lot of the things of why things work and what those elements are are kind of hard to define, but they're completely necessary. You know, you need Ringo, you need you need George Harrison, you need Cartney, you need Lenin to make the Beatles. And you can say that about any band, including ours, Mike, Me and Sean. So all elements are acquired. Uh, you
have a shared vision. I guess that you develop because you're a bunch of young guys and you're kind of excited about making music together, and at some point you decide, hey, I like hanging out with you, you know, why don't we Why don't we try to make a band? You know?
And it works? You know. And I think also that you know, there may be certain like roles I guess that each guy plays or whatever that are yeah, or maybe clearly defined, but but I think they're all roles that we all trade off to each other at different times, you know, So you know, maybe somebody is the main songwriter. Now maybe maybe that changes later, or maybe somebody handles the business aspect of it, or maybe that changes later
to somebody else, Like it's you. Yeah, you have a shared experience and you're all learning things and going about things and together. So it's stuff you all share. So we everybody can play any position on the field that need to, including the one that they play in the band, you know, whether the bass player, the drummer, or the guitar player.
Very cool, Okay, So I wanted to ask you about a couple of individual songs.
First is Damn That River. Do you remember how that came about?
Do you remember any of the sessions or anything really from you know, writing that song, arranging that song?
Oh boy, I mean I don't know. It's it's been a few years. Yeah, Damn that I was just a really aggressive riff, you know, and a lot of energy to that. Good tunes, good riff.
Yeah totally.
Do you find like, do you trust your memory at this point? Like I know that you have to. When people interview you, they ask often about things that happened, you know, as early as eighty seven. Now, do you trust that the stories happened as you remember?
Them.
I just no memory can be a funny thing and sometimes.
Yeah, well, you know, there's there's a couple of elements here, you know, like like one, do you want to talk about it too? You might not want to let somebody know all that all there is to know at any given moment, right Two. Uh, yeah, it's a lot of years past. But you know, you also have the collective memory of all of you together, so that helps if there's fucking lapses, you know what I mean. So I'm focused on what I'm doing right now.
So yeah, yeah, can you tell me a little bit about Afterglow? That's another track that really stood out to me on the new album. How did that one come to be?
You know, I did most of the demoing and writing here at my house, and you know, I've got a pretty minimal setup. It's not like a grand studio thing. It's just you know, pro tools type stuff, and you know, I got a little electronic drum kit and some headphones that we can all jam on and so we don't
piss the neighbors off, you know what I mean. So yeah, but it's cool, you know, just like it's like old school shity living room jamsh you know, a converted bedroom to write in, and I got a little converted bedroom studio upstairs, and then the living rooms turned into a jam room. And the process for me is pretty similar, you know, It's pretty tried and true, so I stick with it. It's it's about I don't know what what flips the switch in my head. I don't write all
the time, and I think it's important. It takes months, you know, sometimes even years before I make another think about making another record, you know what I mean, or or writing another song, you know. And once when I'm in the the headspace of touring, which I am right now, I will write a lot less, you know. And when that all wraps up, then at some point it'll go on and that that switch will get flipped and it'll
be it's time to time to go again. And so I'll call up Max or my good buddy Paul Figueroa, who has been my demo and engineer partner for the
last four four records. This year was Maxwell Yurowski, really talented dude, and it'll just be me and me and them in a room just sketching shit out, mess and messing around with stuff, and then call and a few people few friends to jam them out in the in the room to to uh to test them, test the theory, see how it feels in a live context, and then also get ideas and go back into the writing process.
But it's usually once it starts, it's about three four months of demoing, and then it's a month or two of like pre production with like who you're going to make the record with and who's gonna record it for you, and then you go onto the record and that's another you know, three to six months, and so it's it's about a year process of making a record from wow, from scratch to end, and then it and then the
touring cycle starts. And then that when you were from a year to year and a half, so you're looking at a two and a half to three year cycle and you got to you got to be willing to take that whole ride, leave anything on the field, and you can't. You can't wo's out once it starts, it's
like when you've got to commit to that. And so going back to the beginning of that, that's why I take time off, you know, I think time off totally it's important so that you can recharge, you can kind of clear the decks of ideas, the halls are empty and get quiet again for new ideas to come in and start collecting again. So yeah, but you were asking me about Afterglow. I thought that was a cornerstone song.
I think there's a handful of really cornerstone songs to each album and vilify it and and Afterglow are both those. And I got to work with one of my one of my favorite filmmakers and video artists, Matt Maherne, and he made a great video for it as well. But yeah, it's a really lush landscape and it's got the got the cool keys and the strings kind of you know, all of my love Led Zeppelin kind of vibe to a little bit of that kind of bottom roll to it,
and some John Paul Jones keyboards and shit. And it's an important song and I think that's gonna where That's going to be the next single here.
So what do you see, if Eddie, the difference between Brighton and I Want Blood. I've seen that, you know, people describing I Want Blood as having more teeth and just being harder, generally more aggressive and brightened, being a little bit more like mild tempo acoustic bass songs.
How do you see the difference in what, like.
Where were you at in your life personally when those albums were coming together.
Well, they're three years apart, so that's a lot of life and yeah, always going to be in a different a much different place with that much time that's passed. So then that's the cool thing about about living a life, about living a musical, creative life. You know, you're always standing somewhere new, you know what I mean. The world is going through something that hasn't gone through before. The you know, events, you know, things happen, your relationships change.
I mean, for me, it's a different kid. You know, it's a kid born three years after the last one, so you should be able to see the lineage. Yeah, that's his kid. But yeah, so it's the baby right now and it might be a little more really and a little bit more of a troublemaker than the last.
Yes, that makes sense.
On Brighton, I want to ask you about the song A Tone. How did that one come to be?
Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting Uh, it's a really interesting story on the tone. I had that riff and I had two parts of a three part song, but I only had the two and so that's why it never became a song, So cycling through my head for almost two decades. So then I knew it was really good, but I also knew it needed a it needed a third part, so that breakdown section in the middle and also the outro stomp Tyler Bates contribution to
that that particular song. H those two new things came into existence and allowed it to be finally a song. Ideas or ideas, you know, like, you know, not every script gets made, you know, but it's cool to keep it, you know what I mean? And and like maybe maybe like parts of parts of things can be frankenstein into something else later on and become a full fledged song on its own. And a Tone was one of those. It's great and I like philified. I thought it was the perfect gopiner.
After this last quick break, we'll be back with the rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell. Here's the rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell.
Is there anything else about the new album or anything about the tour that you want to talk about specifically?
Yeah, Well, this year is it's going to be interesting because you know, I am a member of Alis in Chains, and so you know, that's kind of my first and foremost love and has been my commitment. I don't get the opportunity to do these very often records outside of the band. I guess that's why I'm a little more wanting to focus on this right now. It's because it
doesn't happen very often. I've done these two records within a three year period, andlast time I did that, I did another two records within a three year period nineteen to twenty years ago. Hopefully one other twenty years before I get to do a couple more. But if that's the case, that's fine, because I'll be making music with
Alice like I have been doing all along. So so this year is fun because I get to I get to do some touring with Alice and also do some touring on a record that I made for myself and with my creative partners outside the band.
So how are you with touring? Do you enjoy it at this point?
Oh? Yeah, I mean that's the best part, you know, The best part is standing in front of people and playing this stuff and having it back to it and getting that instant you know, connection. It's always surprising, you know, to me, it still is. You know, there's that I think you know, we're all human and so you know, there's always that voice in the back of your head like you know, one of these days they're going to
figure out you're a fucking fraud. And that right, you know, that's that's that's a good voice because it drives you to prove, to achieve, to be better, to work hard.
And the payoff is when you're standing on a stage and you're and you've gone through all that process and mental mumbo jumbo with yourself and and you come out the other side with a batch of tunes and stand on a stage and play I've made connections, you know, and written some pretty good songs over the last uh, you know, three four decades that people want to you know, react to. So to play them stuff along with that old the older tunes and have them react in the
same way, it gives you chills. I was in the Buenos Ais uh in particular. Uh, it's really trippy there. They like sing the guitar solos as well as the I mean, the whole thing, like you know it's going to happen, but but like even the little little riffs like on on Afterglow they start singing that ship and
it's like so cool. It takes you by It takes me by surprise, and like I can kind I've expected because I know the audience is going to do that, but when it actually happens and it hits you and this thing just came out like a week ago, you know, it's it's a really powerful moment, you know.
So when is the ideal time would you say to see a band, like at what point during the tour in the beginning, middle, or end.
I think any times really good. I mean, you know, if there's a band that you want to see and you're you happen to be at the first aid on the tour, you can't really do anything exactly unless you want to travel. Sometimes it's cool, man, when it's raw and loose, you know, and that that really is rock and roll. Rock and roll is the threat that the train could come off the rails at any moment. Yes, And I think I even reference that in a in a song and off the rails, so like there's always
two wheels off the rails. Man, it's always threatening, you know, to come off, to come off and it doesn't somehow, and and and it's always fun live when shit gets a little squirrely, like can they bring it back? You know? Can you can you save? Yeah, because it's it's live performance, and and that's kind of the beauty of it. You know, some of the early gigs can be fun because there's
they're kind of a little looser and raw. And then you know, but it's also kind of cool seeing middle tour gigs who were where you're kind of greasy and and in the groove, and you know, at toward toward the end of the tour sometimes you know you could be dealing with elements like where or somebody could be you know, you could be sick. That always sucks. The
worst thing. You can be sick and feel like shit and play a gig doing any other position in the band, but trying to sing when you have an o blaces. Fucking that's that sucks. And I've done it many times and I will unless I absolutely can't utter a word or I've got a fucking ivy in my arm and I'm in a bed, which has only happened once or
twice in my career. I'm going to be up there until I fall over, wow, because they paid money and bought tickets, and they made plans and they got hotel rooms, and if I can make it happen, I'm try to do it. And so that all goes in with what we were talking about with the live element. Once it starts, you can't stop it, you know what I mean, unless it's catastrophic, you know, And and those happened very rarely, thankfully.
So have you ever had any like major malfunctions happened during a show where like sound goes out or all the time?
Yeah, all the time. I think one of the most epic ones was I think it was the show we got signed on. We were playing at some I think it was a drag strip, some sort of raceway and Spokane or something. We were opening for Tesla, Great White and somebody else, and we had like a I don't know, we had like twenty minutes to open. We were were the first band. We had twenty minutes, and the PA wasn't on for so we basically played like four songs, four or five songs, and the PA wasn't even on
for about half of them. Oh, and everybody in the audience is like, can't hear you, we can't hear you. And we got off and we were so pissed off and we thought we blew our big break. But the guys from Nick Turzo and Ron I think his name was, but they're like, now, you guys, dealt with it. Dealt
with it fine. And the two songs that were through the PA were killed some we're going to sign anyway, So another gig and I want to say it was maybe Finland or something, and the PA went out for about forty five minutes and like my god, basically we just stopped the show. We went and went down to the barricade and kind of let everybody know because they couldn't hear us through the mic. So we went down
and said, hey, the power is off. We're going to stay here till the power comes back on, if that's okay with you, and we just kind of hung out talk with the crowd until the power came back on and then we finished our set.
Yeah yeah, I heard you had food poisoning during the Alison Chains unplug show.
Oh yeah, I was not feeling well. Yeah, And if you look very closely, there's a trash can at my feet for me to vomit in but luck when the when the light went green and the cameras went on and we started playing, I got a little adrenaline rush and I started. Yeah. So that turned out to be one of the greatest shows we've ever played, you know. So yeah, but I was feeling like fucking shit until it started, and then soon as the show was over, I went back to feeling like shit and back on
the IV. So I was sick and sick as a dog. Yeah.
Yeah, I was watching it last night and I saw I think it was during Rooster. You were kind of like laughing doing something. I was like, oh, he looks he looks happy.
Actually, yeah, yeah, that's just part of the deal man. Cool.
Is there anything else you want to talk about with the new album, any other new projects, any movie projects coming up?
Uh, you know, I'm always open to that. I would love to do a song with Tyler for a movie. We wrote a song called A Job to Do for the second John Wick installment and that was really fun. You know, I want blood the people that I that I had made the record with, you know, Gil Sharon and Mike than on drums. You know, it's it's my
second record with both of those guys. Robert Trujillo. It's my second record with Degradation Trip and this one Duff and I. I think I've done three or four records together, a couple of his, couple of Greg Proshato. That's it's
our it's our second record together. Being in a band is hanging out with your friends, just like it always was, you know, like you get together in a basement, in a garage, in a living room and you rock out and try to figure out this thing called rock and roll, share it and try to create your own version of it. And so in Alice, we're a family, and first and foremost we're friends. And so if I'm making music outside the band, I still go by that template. I call
it my friend. So that's why all these these fine folks are on the record. Also, you know, it's not lost on me that I'm pretty lucky to be able to call these guys up who all have pretty amazing bands and pretty full time jobs with their bands, and catch him in windows when when we're able to make some music together, it's just it's just lined up that way, and uh, and we make we make some pretty good noise together. So I'm glad, everybody said yes when I called.
Yeah, it sounds like so much fun.
It is it should be.
Thank you so much, Jerry, appreciate you. I appreciate your time and have fun on tour.
Okay, thanks Leah.
Thanks so much to Jerry Cantreell for coming on to talk about his new project I Want Blood and His Days and Alison Chains to hear some of our favorite Jerry Cantroyl and Alison Chans songs. Check out the playlist and episode notes or on our website at broken Record podcast dot com, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record pot. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler
and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolat.
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