Pushkin Today, we're welcoming to the show, Connor Oberst out of my interview with Connor, I spent two weeks catching up on albums of his that are perennial favorites, or albums that I missed, or albums and EPs I just haven't heard in a long time, And in that two weeks I remember just how wonderful his catalog of music is.
Often his music gets pegged as being maybe only sad, But Connor's music, whether it's with Bright Eyes, Deciparcidos, the Mystic Valley Band, Monsters of Folk, Commander Venus, his solo works, or his stuff with Phoebe Bridges, is not one dimensional. It's dynamic. It's deeply smart, captivating, funny, sometimes biting, and because it's a lovely blend of all these things, along
with yes, sometimes melancholy, it's above all joyful. His catalog is also deceptively large, especially when considering it age, which overwhelmed me a bit going into this conversation. Where do you start with someone who's been making music and writing songs at a high level since around nineteen ninety five? And I guess the answer is you start at the beginning, which is what we did. But I hope longtime fans, new fans, and even people who've never given his music
a shot get a lot out of this episode. Connor's a real force in music, and at the risk of sounding trite all the way from his earliest records through his latest five dices all threes, he's done it his way, on his terms, and there's a lot to respect in that. This is Broken Record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's my conversation with Connor Oberst and to see the full video version of this episode, visit YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast or click the
link in the episode description. You spend more time in la these days or more in Omaha?
Or it's probably half and half because we have the studio here. I can't see you, but up through my backyard there's a fence and Michael Mogus, who's in Bright Eyes with me, has his house and his studio there.
So and how long have you guys had that arrangement?
Oh? I guess it was like two thousand and six. Okay, yeah, almost twenty years.
What was the first stuff he recorded there? Do you remember?
Yeah? I think we recorded the tail end of Casadega, which was the Bright Eyes recorded. Yeah.
I came out, I guess the next year two thousand seven.
Yeah, that's one of my favorite brid Eyes records. Yeah, I did see you on that tour though. Actually, now that I know that I think about it.
I was the one we all had like the white seats and stuff, and my friend was doing the old like hippie projection when we put the little colored water and big so yeah, yes, our pseudo psychedelic stuff kind of.
Felt like, yeah, these guys were up there kind of like you know, the Flying Burrito Brothers or something.
I love that.
You know, I been a fan of your output since I don't know, around two thousand and two, one or two or you know, things come out piecemeal and you just kind of listen over time. But you know, it was interesting to be able to listen to like kind of like the whole catalog in one and like you know, kind of over the course of like a week and a half and kind of like the enormity of it was like it slipped by me until until like we were about to have this conversation and I was like, you know, like.
Jesus, you know, I'm I'm impressed you got through all.
I was like, how old is this guy? Again? Like how does this like? You know, it's almost like a Neil Young left ful of output, Like we're just like and it just it escaped me. How do you How do you hold that all in your your head these days?
I mean, it's very much. I wouldn't say it's a blur because I have a lot of specific memories over the years. But you know, I started touring and presenting
my music at like age I guess like thirteen or fourteen. Obviously, like in high school, I kind of just toured in the summer and like when I could, and then I went to college for like a year, and so I guess, like around fevers and mirrors, I think I was like nineteen, and that's when I got kind of quit school and music became my full time job and just never stopped. So it's I feel lucky to like have the longevity.
I mean, I've had older musicians sort of you know, just tell me that there's always like peaks and valleys when it comes to like career things and creativity and really the ultimate triumph.
It's just just still you're.
Doing it after you know, I'm forty four now and played too many shows to even count and made so many records of various people. So yeah, it's really it's been my entire life. So it's hard to it's hard to like know what life would be like without music, you know, science Like people have like ask me that in the interviews, like if you can play music, what would you do, And it's like I have like no idea, I have no like skills.
So after getting to the first couple of Bright Eyes Records, I remember somehow, I don't remember how someone earned it for me or I founded a record shop like the Command of Venus, but the Commander Venus, I didn't know you were fifteen, sixteen seventeen in that grip, Yeah, like that's crazy.
Yeah, we made the first record.
There's like two Commandervenius records, and the first one, yeah, I made it like when I was like fourteen, and Tim Cashers, like the main guy in Cursive, was in that band at first, and it was after Valentine's Day. We went to like Target or whatever and bought all these heart shaped boxes and then we wrote like love letters to the record labels we liked.
So it was like You're Murdered or My Sweet Mr My Sweet Manator or whatever, slipop, whatever we liked at the time, and we sent it out. And there was a record label long gone but.
Called Grass Records from New York that put out like a lot of great records, Brainiac and the Wrens and yeah, just a lot of They put out the spam from Omaha called mouse Chaps. That's why they were kind of like on our radar. But this woman, Camille, who was kind of the an r that signed bands. I remember she called my parents' house and it was like a landline and my brother was like, Connor, you got a call.
And I'm like, he's like, this is live on Grass. I'm like, oh my god, they like listen to this.
And she's talking to me and I tell her that I'm like a fourteen year old boy, and she just like screams because she had thought that I was like a twenty year old like female.
That's hilarious.
My voice hadn't changed.
Me.
Yeah, and that wind ends up being like wind up right. At a certain point, which was was kind of blooming mine. I was looking at their catalog and it was like the same year they put out Your guy's second album was like there's a Teddy Pendergrass record, a Doctor John record, a record from the Wrens, like you mentioned their own grass, and then and then a Creed Like Creed's first record came out like a month after your guys second record.
It's like, yeah, those like this guy, Alan Meltzer, who was just a really rich guy, bought the label, bought Grass and then like basically like got rid of most of the bands and and then obviously took it in a total different direction. But he was always very sweet to me. He's passed away now, but I remember him showing me Creed. And his wife was very eccentric as well,
and they're just super New York. He was like very overweight, stout man, and then his wife was like a you know model from the seventies that was still like antarexic. They were just very crazy to look at, but they would like fly me out. They flew me and my
girlfriend out there to New York for like my eighteenth birthday. Anyway, they were sweet, but I remember them showing me Creed before it even came out, and I was like, I really liked them, and I was like, you guys, sounds like a really bad pearl jam and I don't I don't think it's not, you know, And like the lady was like Diane and she was like, you know, he's like Jim Morrison.
You know, he's like new Jim Morrison.
I was the guys. And then sure enough they put it out and it's like the biggest thing in the world. So another reason not to ever you know, trust my rush.
Maybe maybe not your commercial judgment, but but your ears were kind of spot on and they were kind of like exactly like a bad birl jam. But funny to imagine I bet yeah, probably Scott Staff was probably telling her the news. Yeah, I imagine.
You know, yeah, I remember like on that trip, you know, just like I mean, I've been to New York, but it was still like you know, my aging birthdayn with my girlfriend. They were like they would like drive around like limousines like smoking weed and stuff, and like, I don't know, it was very it was a surreal little period of time there.
Where was your head at I mean, I guess maybe even specifically on that trip, like eighteen flown to New York on a rep you know, on a label that could actually fly in New York and driving around in a limit. I mean, like, what were your thoughts at that time?
I mean.
We, like my group of friends and all the bands like that were associated with Saddle Creek. It was like all this was kind of happening at once, Like we had started Saddle Creek and like we had the first record came out on that and we were all trying to you know, support each other and had this like little scene. But then we also realized like, oh we we maybe we should get on real labels, was like
the thinking. So some of the bands started signing to other labels, and then eventually we kind of like sort of, I guess shortly after that, came back together and decided just to like really put out our own records. Like I'm mostly I'm talking about right Eyes, Cursive with Faint, they were kind of we were that was kind of the big three bands, and and then yeah, it just got weird, like we just we you know, we grew up.
Like there was a record store here called the Antiquarium, and it was like like right out of the movies, like you know, the old guys smoking cigarettes behind the desk, like making fun of what you're trying to buy. You know, it's so like militant like punk rock, indie rock, and so you know, we love Discord and we were like trying to like fight the power and stuff and get to do it on our own.
So I actually all that stuff with like Grass and wind Up.
I was kind of like it's like I was almost like I was enjoying it in the sense of like observing this is crazy, but I was, you know, a little like too cool for cool, you know, like and that was our vibe.
Like all of our friends.
We were like, I don't know, we just thought we were like such bad asss and we're like change in the world, like make you know, like little little engine that could from Nebraska and all that stuff.
So I mean, you kind of not wrong thom. You guys did have a pretty strong scene going. I mean think about those three, I mean the Fing and Cursive and Bright Eyes, and you know it's like that's a pretty that's a pretty strong core you know as a ray, and you can just kind of on and on. You're like, wow, it's like a whole yeah.
Yeah. And like the you know, the bands didn't really sound like each other, which I think is interesting. Was a lot of like scenes, you know, from certain areas like North Carolina or Washington, DC. You know, there's like a vibe they like hold music together. But I felt like what held us together was just that we were all like friends, and we all were like we all realized at an early age, like you know, the whatever
DIY stuff was like that wasn't really a choice. We you know, we knew that no one was gonna like come find us, you know, so we like gotten bands and dull everywhere and played you know, living rooms and basements and all this like back when like you know, south By still mattered and like, uh, what was the one the college music the CNJ Festival in New York all that stuff, Like, I mean it was we're talking the nineties here, yeah, long ago.
How were you aware of all, like the sort of industry. Was it just through reading magazines or like how did you know where to go to kind of be seen?
I guess like we were big fans of music, so it was always kind of like those labels I was mentioning before, you.
Know, we listened to all those records, so I was like, oh, I don't know, like Spoon's playing this thing, like it must be cool we got to try to play that or you know, like so it was mostly just like kind of network. And then once we started traveling, like you meet just a lot of musicians in different cities and so, I mean for a long time we kind of booked our own things, and it was like easier
back then. And even though it seems like it'll be easier now with the Internet, it was actually I think easier for us because there wasn't as much things happening, or at least you didn't know about it, and you know, you could like if there was like a cool like you know, punk rock venue in some city, you could like send a cassette tape or send a CD and like someone would actually like listen to it and call you back and be you know, a lot of word
of mouth basically. And then eventually we got you know, real booking agents, and then that kind of changed everything because then you're playing clubs and you have guarantees and you're on you know, real tour.
So yeah, we were talking about like the mense amount of kind of stuff you've done over the years. In hindsight, do you think having Saddle Creek as kind of like a home base this kind of independent thing that you know, you guys sort of all created. Was that to your benefit over the years, like being able to work with independently as long as you did.
Yeah, I mean I think that that kind of those kind of golden years. I would say, between like yeah, you know, nineteen ninety nine up through probably like Sadega and stuff, it was like everyone was unified and it really felt like a collective and then, like anything money and personality, the label kind of ended up belonging to like this guy Rob Nansel who was in He was actually in Communityvens, but he was kind of the one that was like organized in business minded and the rest
of us were just more into making the music. So at a certain point it started to feel like didn't belong to all of us anymore. And I think that's
when things started to fray. Like I made my first solo record like on Merge because I was kind of like, I don't know, I just didn't feel like connected to it, and then been on a lot of other labels since with different projects, and you know, I mean I fondly looked back at those times, but I mean, who's who's to say, but I think that we missed out on some opportunities again because we were so like militantly independent, like I remember the past of like tons of money,
and they were like primed to be because they were a little ahead of the dancing chronic dance like before a killer and floor like, oh, it's like a lot of that stuff. It got really huge and and they like said no that these major labels to stay on the our label, and same with me, and same with same with Cursive to certain degrees. So maybe we made a mistake. Maybe we should have like struck while the iron was hot. You know, that's all hindsight now.
I remember talking to Rick Rubin one time and like basically talking. We were talking about the Faint and how much we love the Faint, and he was like, I tried to sign the Faint. Yea. I was kind of I remember it, just being kind of shocked by that, you know, because I do, like remember, I mean, listening
to them when they're out. It was like I didn't assume anyone I was listening to was on any major labels radar or I mean, I guess it wasn't like a major major, but you had like major distribution, et cetera. You know, So It's just kind of wild to hear that. Even at that time I was you know, it was new and everyone was listening to it in the underground records. It was like, oh shit, this was on the radar of like other other people were trying to swoop in, you know. Yeah.
Yeah.
Rick's always been super cool, so he like actually when I was making we were making Castle Deega, I was in La.
It's like before I lived there, but yeah, he.
Like did the send me send a car down to LA and I went up to Malau House and like, you know, did the whole thing, like playing him songs on acoustic guitar. And obviously we didn't end up working with him, but I remember I was like, we had a lot of songs recorded, and he actually helped pick the ones that were gonna that we're gonna be on Castadaga. I was like really yeah, I was like right, like what you know, it's it's Rick Rubin. I was like,
what do you think the songs? So he actually did like help pick songs for that record, which is I hadn't thought about that till now. But and then he's always been really cool, Like when I did some solo records, at Shangri La and when Nah, actually we made the Monsters at Shango Lad before he owned it. But then I went back solo record and he cut me a good deal and it's very sweet.
Yeah, yeah, very nice about that. Very nice about that. Was that around because I remember going to see you right after a Wide Awake Its Morning came out and it was like the vibe was you know, going to see Bright Eyes before that was like is everyone was like my age at the time or maybe a little older, and then going there it was like there was like sixty year old dudes and I was like, what the
fuck is this? You know, so I have to imagine it is maybe and you were like on the cover Rolling Stone, I think if I remember correctly.
Like it was, Yeah, that whole time with that record was you know that was obviously like the kind of commercial peak too.
I guess my.
Music in general. I learned a lot about kind of
the way the real industry worked. And yeah, we were every label was trying to sign us, and yeah, it was like I remember the kind of fun thing is we you know, we put out those two records on the same day, so we went on the Wide Away tour first playing all the songs and it was like, you know, it felt like the Beatles or something, and we'd walk out on stage and be like like flash flash flash flash flash craziness, and then like like you know, six months later, we come back to these towns and
like I remember, in between those tours, there wasn't a lot of time, and the thing became our band for the Digital Ash shit, and I remember I took all the clothes I had and threw them into a bucket, and the pose one of the guys in the faint helped me, like die them all black.
Okay, there you go, so all my clothes are black.
And we went and.
Just basically played I mean, we should have been smarter and like played songs from Bulls, but we were like, this is this tour, this is this tour. So we go back and people don't know, they're expecting us to play the Wide Awake stuff, and man we had some upset yeah, ticket ticket fires like.
The Digital Ash. So yeah, I don't know, was.
That the like did people feel more strongly about IM Wide Awake than a Digital Ash?
Oh? Yeah, I mean as far as the general I mean, that was the only record I feel like when we put well maybe lifted, but when we put it out, it was like I would consider like well received, you know.
Like everywhere.
Yeah, it's like all of our pretty much all my other records. It seems like even to my fans, like you know, make these records and it's like ten years later people are like, oh my god, I love like Upside Down Mountains, like one of my solo records. I'm like, man, no one seemed to care when it came out, and same with like, I mean a lot of those records. That's like this delayed effect to even like the fan base.
I'll say, I'll be one hundred percent honest, I did not ever know about Upside Down Mountain or listen to it until until over the weekend. Yeah, I think this might be my favorite album of your that's fucking amazing.
Yeah, I mean, how did I miss its ten years ago?
How the fuck did I miss it?
Yeah? And I signed it like none such, which is like a big cool label part of Warner Brothers. But yeah, I mean that's that's sort of where I learned, is like no matter, I don't think I and I don't
say this as like you know, boohoo. It's like I don't think, uh, my music was ever really meant to be to like achieve a certain like I've watched my friend's bands, and like people I know, people have toured with get way bigger than me, or my bands have like as far as like where they play and how many records they sell or whatever, like those sort of like empirical data or whatever. But I don't know, I like that it's not it's like exists in sort of
its own thing. And and I've also seen a lot of bands like be It Real Hot and then like Fizzle Away. You know, so just the fact that I'm still making records now and can go you know, it's not always like tons of people, but just you know, to be able to play to like, you know, a couple thousand people and like most cities in like you know, in our whole world.
But you know, amount I'm sure.
I mean, so that itself, I guess is like a achievement.
You know, So that's.
Well yeah, I mean I don't know, it seemed kind of sad if you only had like a few records and then kind of like everything else, like the quality dropped off. And and but I mean it's like like I said, like listening to was a like mind fuck, like Jesus Christ, Like you know, it really is like listening to like Neil's Young's catalog or something like there's shit that's like wildly different, but it's all kind of a certain quality. None of it's like there's like a
baseline quality for everything. Nothing's like trash, you know, and then there's some stuff that's just like like upside down Mountain. It was just like a complete surprise, like I just didn't know about it, and I didn't know. I don't know what single thing about Jonathan Wilson, but I was just kind of checking him out this week and because I was just like that record blew me away.
Yeah, thank you very much. That's uh Yeah, he's a he's a magical man. He spent the last few years playing in Roger Waters band and like the Big Crazy World Tour and he uh he did uh David Gilmore's like arts like sang the fucking like teenage dream come true.
For Wilson.
He was like in Pink Floyd for like that's insane. Yeah, did you check the show out or you know, I'm I regretted to this day he like I have like a standing like come to any show, but like I just I was never in like the right city when it was happening. I should have just flown to do it because everyone that saw I was like, oh, I know, it's like the craziest thing. But I kind of blew it. But yeah, I've heard a lot about stories about it.
So yeah, I just saw David Gilmour for the first time a week ago, and uh, that kind of that really blew me away. I wasn't expecting it to be that that increase. It was really good. It was like, really really good. Yeah, that's all. It's a strange thing that they both tour and kind of play the same songs. But yeah, and I think they're I think they hate each other. I mean I have no, I don't. It's
not like I take a side. I just you know, like he was around and actually had time, so I was like, let me go to see what, you know, what it's like, and it was. It was incredible. But yeah, now I want to see Roger Waters and see without you know, because I know, I don't even know if he's going to do that anymore. But he was like frying the pig out over the crack. The whole thing was I want to say that, you know.
Yeah, they they're describing like the the well visual part and like even like this, like the PA.
It was like something crazy like like.
The you know, biggest like most like high fi like PA like ever like used kind of thing like he's like you know, he's he's always been like I think, into like technology and like the next thing. So I think it. Yeah, now I'm just getting more sad that I didn't go.
But man, sorry, would you would you do another record with him?
Oh? For sure.
Yeah. He we used to actually be roommates in l A. And then he he moved to Topanga and built like a cool studio you out there, So I want to add, great to go make a record there some time.
That's that's cool. The new record's really cool too. I particularly love fell in love with the second half of it. I kind of got stuck on a loop with the first half of it when it first came out. Then I graduated finally to the second half and I think, like it just is like it's it's really good man. Thank you listening back. You've collaborated with a lot of people. I mean, you have Alex Orange, drink who you're co
writing a lot of record with. You haven't really done a full album where you're co writing with someone on a Bride Eyes record before.
Right, Yeah, not on a not on a Bride Eye record.
I mean other than sometimes network musical stuff that Nate and and Mogus do. But yeah, I mean I've been in obviously like just Parcitos and like the Better Oblivion Community Center with TV and Monsters of Folks, So I've been in collaborations. But yeah, Bright Eyes for a long time was just I just would bring the songs completed
and then we'd arrange them together. And yeah, this one just it was kind of just happenstance, like Alex was staying with me in LA and just I don't know, I was kind of in a weird spot and wasn't really writing, and he got the ball rolling and so yeah, he's a big reason why the record got made.
You know, So were you even thinking about writing or were you like trying to write and couldn't and then that's how it.
I wasn't really thinking about it.
I was just like, I don't know, I go as sometimes I go through well a lot of you know, mental whatever ups and downs, and you know, I definitely suffered from like what's the point of all this, like not just music, like of everything, you know, so of all life. Yeah, I mean basically. But I mean I've always been like that, so it's not really anything new.
But sometimes yeah, I get a little paralyzed and you gotta It's why it's good to have friends to shake you out of it and you know, get back at it.
Yeah. Yeah. Does it still take you by surprise, like when when that happens like that feeling?
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
I think music is a to me. It's still like a mystery because it's like if I could sit down and write a great song that I was proud of, like every day, I'd be doing it, you know, but I just it's not it doesn't work that way. It's kind of you got to like wait for like the tide to come in and it's all like waves and you know of it. I find that like I don't really write if I'm having like a sort of heightened emotional or like mental experience good or bad, I don't
really I don't feel like writing. It's more like in like the ordinary times when I have the ability to like look back at things and see it from a more like objective state of mind. I like, I like to write lyrics from that place because well, I just
think they're better. I mean I have written songs like when in the height of whatever, being in despair or like being in love or something, you know, but I feel like I always in the like worse than the ones that are a little more like I mean, not like clinical, but just like have like a perspective that you know, I don't know a little after the fact.
Yeah, exactly are there are there songs that have made records that have been written at the highest size or lowest lowser.
Sure, I'm trying to think, like, well, I mean one kind of obvious example is that when the president talks to God, so like I just wrote that A is like I was pissed off and it was like a commercial for like a way of thinking. It's not a good song at all. But it was like I was booked on Jay Leno and I was like, I want to do something. I don't want to just like play first Day of my Life, you know what I mean. I was like I thought things mattered and splaining like
political world. So yeah, I got my tour manager at the time, Like I did the sound check for that just like in my hoodie like normal like me. And then in between me and that, in the shell, I was like Bill, this guy Bill Sullivan was my tour manager at the time. I was like, Bill, Man, I don't know about this.
Can you give me like a Cowboys sudent?
And He's like like if we were in La so he like, you know, it's easy to get order.
Yeah.
So I put on the Ryan Stones and went out there.
And my theory was like I'm singing this song.
It's like anti Bush song, and it'll be like some guy in like the Midwest to the South, like kind of half watching.
J Leno was like, you know it real quiet and be like hey honey.
And like this Scott looks all right, turn this up.
So I don't know.
What was that. Do you remember what the reception to that was.
I mean it was it was like, just like you expect the people that were on that side of the political divide, it was great. And everyone that wasn't, you know, just tried their best to like make fun of me and all.
That stuff, you know, And that was that.
I mean, that was right in the middle of kind of like right away, so it was pretty There was a lot of whatever, I guess.
People with opinions around that time.
We'll be right back with more from Connor Oberst after the break. We're back with more from Connor Oberst. Do you remember people saying like the second coming of Bob Dylan?
Yes, and you know, obviously we all know that that's like a ridiculous thing to say about anyone, and then.
Said about a lot of people.
Actually, my booking agent, who's been my booking agent for like twenty years, he gave me this. It was like from the New York Post and it was like around at the same time. It's like a framed article or you put it in a frame like an article. You just said, picture of me, and it's a Dylan wanna be So I got that like framed.
Well, there's a lot of those two, So that's cool.
But yeah, that guy's one of the crimes. I don't think there's any worry about that.
Yeah, I mean I remember even just thinking like, wow, how do you you know, like getting like the attention the record was getting the critical and sort of the polarizing opinion of like when the president talks to God, and then like yeah, just being called the New Day, it was just like wow, that is fucking nuts.
Yeah it was. It was definitely like, you know, a mind fuck for sure, and just like I mean, I'm kind of lucky, I feel like because what happened to me was like every stage, it was very gradual, from like you know, command evenings, high school all the way. Everything kind of kept building and so it wasn't like it was an overnight thing, because I think that's what really makes people go crazy. Like I just every record we put out, like feld a little more and the
two of the shows got a little bigger. So I guess by the time that was happening, I was somewhat prepared for it already, but it was still still very surreal. And you know, also like that realization at some point that it's like this is my livelihood. And it's like also like you know, just some degree, it's a business. Like a lot of people, you know, count on me to make music because I make money that they need,
you know. Yeah, yeah, and like it's like a weird you know, you lose a lot of innocence and so you it's like you gotta I try to like replenish that somehow. How much do you.
Think about that, like the the I guess, just the way that people might depend on you, the way people would depend on a corporation for you know, it's like not not that depends on you in a bad way, but how often do you think about that like that? There are people who.
I mean I think about it a lot.
You know, when we tour, it's like there's obviously the band that there's all kinds of people that work on the tours and the labels too. You know, I'm not really like working for any kind of faceless thing that I can be like, I don't care what happens to them, you know, all like intertwined with my actual life. So yeah, there's times when I would maybe not do something, but I'd like people need like people need the money mogus. There's always worried.
About mocuss things going on though, right Yeah.
No, yeah, those guys, those guys can I mean, they don't need meat.
But uh.
Yeah, it's like my dad's like been my business.
Like he used to work at Mutual Roma when I was a kid, and then as soon as I got enough stuff going on, because he already did.
My taxes just because he's like my dad, you know.
But I like, I was, like, everyone was like, you need a business manager, and like, you know, there's people that'll do that for like five percent of your income.
That's what most people do.
And I don't know if I want a stranger like with all my bank passwords and all my stuff, you know, like my mortgages and shit.
You know.
So I was like, Dad, you just help pay you salary, you do this, and so quit his job. I mean I was, I will like yeah around then two thousand and four or five, you know, and he'd been going to that same sad building for like my whole life. So that's one thing I'm like proud of that. He just gotta like, you know, deal with my stuff and like have like more time to show. And he likes being around, you know. He likes to know, like what's up with the music and you.
Know your parents music people.
My dad was a musician. Yeah, he like played in like I mean, I guess semi professionally because it was like his side gig to his actual job.
But he would play.
Like in like wedding bands and you know it's like cover bands. And my mom was not a musician, but there was always music at my house and my oldest brother played in bands. So I was lucky I didn't have to like go you know search. You know, I didn't like get my first guitar. There was just like guitars in my house, like from when I was born.
So it did everyone have different music like your three brothers and your mom and dad liked, everyone have their own kind of thing that we're listening to.
Yeah, I mean my mom and dad, you know, they were fully like right there, like seventies for you know, Jackson Brown, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young all that type of thing and Dire Straits and Steely Dan. And my oldest brother, Maddie was like into like, you know, I guess eighties alternative you know, Rim Smith here whatever, all that kind of like one hundred and twenty minutes like and that's so. But he was like six years older than me. So and then my brother justin real close in age. We
kind of liked all that stuff. But then we sort of found like like the North Carolina stuff like Super Chunk and like I meant, the DC stuff for Gauzi, and I don't even remember all the all the things but that was like the things we learned about at the record store, and then also like older records like getting into like Poundsman's Aunt and John Prime and Lennon Cohen, you know, things that were of the time that my parents would listen to, but they weren't really that hit,
you know, they kind of commercial stuff.
But right I don't want to let I want to go I want to talk about some songs to the new record, but I want to go back to that feel like I let it drop. Did you write when the President talks to God? For like that was specifically for that I guess.
It wasn't for Leno, but it was after the election. Actually went to Europe to to do press for like the two records, Wide Awake and Visual Ash, Like it was like a press tour, but I was playing like little acoustics shows like as part of the press stuff. I remember I wrote it like on a faery because I wanted to play something that like acknowledged it because like I don't know if you remember back then, but there was a you know, I guess it's a good
lesson for right now. It definitely it felt like the end of the world kind of like I had gone on tour with like Springsteen and like rim like vote for change. You know, we're going hard for like Carrie if you can imagine that. But yeah, it was it saw anyone wanted to talk about was like how crazy it was that Bush got reelected, you know and now we've just now you look back at Bush and you're like, oh, the good old days.
I know it it's so point man, it's like what the fuck?
Yeah, And then like Leen, I was like I'll be like right, you know, close to when I got back.
It was.
It was definitely like the Wide Awake tour because I.
Remember because they were like, really want me to play First Day of My Life? And I was like, no, I want to play this song and they're like it's not on a record, and and it kind of went.
Up the the.
Chain of command. But yeah, so it went up and they cleared it. And I remember that night before the show or before the paping, like Leno came and knocked on the door and he was like very nice. He's like, yeah, I heard the song you gonna play, and he's like told me like a story about like him and stand up comedians, like touring along the Canadian border during like the Vietnam War and like all this stuff.
Damn all right, Jay, I.
Always remember me. I always heard that from people that played that show that it was like or that and then we play like Letterman and I was always like a Letterman fan, but I always heard from people that played the shows it was like Lena was like the cool like drop in and like talk to you and hang and like it was the opposite, you know, with Letterman. I guess you expect.
Yeah, I played Letterman like many times and yeah, you don't see him. He's only like says hi to you on the stage. All those guys are, you know, different levels of like engagement, I guess. I mean Conan is.
My favorite as like a person. He's just cool.
Yeah, Allen's really nice. I mean they're all nice. Kimmel's n they're they're they're all good, great political answer.
Them all.
I like them if they like me, you know, yeah, exactly.
What was it like hanging with Springsteen on that Vote for Change tour?
It was amazing, same kind of thing.
In the first show, we were super nervous and he came to our dressing room. It was just like, so, we're happy to have you here and he would go out like because it was us Rim and then fucking E Street bands like pretty crazy and we were was part of this vote for chain, so we were doing shows as like a three band thing, but they were like Pearl Jam I think was like with like my morning Jacket and like, I mean it was like a whole wow, like all the all the tours were like
I mean, it was really organizing. People put a lot of like blood, sweat and tears, you know, I mean like di rap war and you know, it was like it really did feel like we're making a stand. But he came out and would introduce us, like before we went on stage. He would be like go because he usually doesn't only has a lot of opening people. Normally he just plays for like four hours, but like special thing.
So but he's like talks to the audience. He's like usually my friends from Nebraska and this is a no brucing zone because I guess they yelled Bruce and it sounds like the billing that's like You're like, Bruce, sounds like a right. Oh he yeah. He was very very gracious. That is like maybe the most gracious man in rock and roll.
You know, did you get to talk about like like did he listen to your records?
And yeah, I mean I don't know how much he's listened to our records, but I've seen him, you know since then, like came through Omaha once and like invited me down and like I sang a song with him and like in Omahan and.
Like what did you sing uh on the road? And I was like, oh my, he's like he's like, look he showed me like they're.
Setlist, like like you know, like I like I loved thunder Rug and I'm like, wow, there's a lot of words. You know. I think it wasn't my finest hour. I'm like, I should have picked Dance in the Dark.
Did your dad see that?
Yeah?
I think so.
Actually that's a probably pretty proud dad moment right there.
Yeah. And we also got to play a couple of times the Bridge School the thing that Neil Young ship.
That's right. I saw monsters at Bridge School.
Like yeah, and you know that back then. I don't even know if they do it anymore, but since pass they don't. They don't do that anymore, sadly, But yeah, the thing is you would go on Friday night. We did it once Fridays and then did it Monster. But you go on Friday night to the ranch and everyone hangs out, and then Saturday and Sunday you play the show as a way to kind of like deflate egos and everyone, you know, so you're also just like hanging out in Neil Young's house, you know, which is like
pretty cool. But one year, I think it was the Monsters of Folk year, like my parents came out and they gotta like go to Neil's house and like kick it. So that was I got some some sun points for that one.
Oh yeah, yeah. It's just it's kind of wild that, you know. I mean, Neil Neil, Neil doesn't even tour that much anymore. Just kind of it's like everyone's just kind of like.
No, I mean in the way it's just like seems like every day something else. Quincy Jones, I mean like just like, I mean, I guess it makes sense all that era is like getting into like eighties and nineties and stuff. I mean, the John Prian one got me pretty hard because I've done a bunch of shows with Tan and he's like coolest guy. Wow, Like yeah, it's like the whole pandemic there was there were everyone's drop on my fly.
How did you survive the pandemic?
I was, well, took it very seriously.
I didn't at the time. I was like living with my girlfriend in LA and we just we're like hold up at the house, you know, like everyone ordering ordering food and you could go like drive like right before, like grocery stores would clothes. You know, it's like you know, like right at the end and like run in and grab stuff. And I mean it was just like it was such a Yeah, I don't know, times are I guess living in interesting times.
Someone I heard something it that way, It's for sure.
After the break, we'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Connor Oberst. Here's the rest of my conversation with Connor Oberst. I love your song. I hate it's really that's a phenomenal song. It does something for me that I don't know that many other songs that sound like it. Do you know what? Uh can you tell me about writing that song?
Yeah, that was one actually that started with a musical idea from Nate Walcott and I kind of sat with it and then yeah, I don't know, I started. I had the first couple of lines and then I just thought, you know, that's like a pretty I guess songwriting device, you know, sort of start every line with the same same word phrase.
It's actually kind of easy to write that way. It was just a list of.
Things, you know. Yeah, but yeah, that was one that like.
Is this sincere? Like I mean, the first two lines, I hate the.
I mean it is it is sincere.
I mean, I guess I'll like qualify it with you know, everyone's beliefs if it takes them to a place that creates more empathy or understanding or comfort. You know, I'm not I don't mean to deride that, you know, I think about like my grandma, like praying the Rosary and stuff like that. But to me, like organized religion and even like the pseudo religions, the cults, and I mean, to me, it's just the some good versus evil to humanity.
Is It's pretty clear to me. I think that they all just like just riddle the world with division and ignorance and bigotry. And so yeah, I stand behind all that. I think it's I think it's interesting that like it seems like whenever someone like quote unquote like gets a message from God, it's like God always says like, have sex with all the women and children, take all the money, and kill your enemies. You know. That's like God's like same message, and it's like God's a twisted fuck, you.
Know, you know it's kind of true. Yeah, some wild ship.
Man like, yeah, it's a it's a strange thing. But yeah, that was one that the label. There was two songs that the label was like weird about. There was one song. It's like it's like, actually like it a lot, and I think it's catchy, but it's like it's like a SKA song.
It's called First World Blues.
Oh make the record.
You didn't make the record because they were like, you put this on the record. All anyone's gonna say is like, right, I just you know, go scar or something. I don't know what they but I was like and then hate for like obvious reasons, I guess, like offending people or something. But I I capitulated on the SKA one, and then I was like, hate's going on the record up there, so that's gotta that's gotta be there.
So yeah, bright Eyes ghost Scar might have been a kind of an appealing line in a way, drawn some drawn some listeners in I think with that one.
I mean, it's definitely gonna see the light of day one of these days.
But in the form that it's in now or re recorded. Yeah, Okay, you have like we.
Have like good like eight songs that we recorded that like didn't make the record.
So so how often do you revisit stuff? Like you were saying you had like many more songs for Casadega and you know, Rick helped you little whittle that down, Like did did those extras ever come out? Or are they still somewhere tucked away?
I think like some of them did, some of them didn't. Some of them are like promo for that record, but I mean I guess you could find them on the internet probably, but like like weird things like oh they sent out a song to like the mailing list is like a treat or something, you know. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, Like but yeah, there's there's songs weighing around
for sure, but yeah, yeah, I don't know. I kind of want to do I definitely want to do something with the ones that didn't make this record, because I think some of them are like like some of them, like I don't know what the best they're ones I like wow, So, yeahs, have.
You heard from anyone that is a fan of yours that you've been surprised by?
That's a good question. I'm always surprised.
I don't know a lot of times like they'll be I feel like you make like weird like too. Like a lot of times, like when you're on these like festival circuits, like eure Ape festival circuits, you end up like like watching a band that you never would and kind of like even like hang out. Like I remember like one summer, like every place we played was like incubisc was playing. I like never listened to Incubists, but I'm like, they're really nice guys and they're like, you know, it's.
Like stuff like that.
It's the weird, weird like tour friendships. I feel like happened, you know.
Bringing up Incabists reminded me that there's a some some record scratches on the time I Have left. I'm pretty sure is that at the end of the time I have left, which was an unexpected touch.
Yeah, I think it's like that one and went out and I think tiny suicides too.
But there's this guy.
Named ebabs uh okay Eric, but he's just he's like a hip hop producer, DJ scratching guy here in Omaha, works with like a lot of hip hop groups.
My friend Mars Black.
Is like one of like his main collaborators. But uh yeah, he came in like worked on those songs and yeah it's just something we hadn't tried before. And he's a friend of ours. So I think he did it. Like he took it super like seriously, and like like he was in the studio for a whole couple of days and he's still like I was like what he did?
I like, I thought sounding great.
I was like it's good, and he's like, you know, just like take it home and like think about it a little more.
Like like he took it super seriously.
So I mean it's like they're like subtle things, but if you I think they add like just like a cool different layer to it.
Like it really works and it's really it is super subtle. Do you know what he was scratching? Because it is he.
Has this thing that he used that it's like a digital you can basically load any sample into it and it has like a essentially like a fake record on it. I don't exactly know how it works. For that song, like you know, he had Matt Berninger's separated vocal and he just ran it into the thing and then you know scratched it.
And scratching Matt's vocal over Matt.
Interesting, Yeah, I remember back for Lift.
Did this is like so crazy that we were like this, well, there'd be way easier ways to do this now. But we heard that Portishead had thrust tracks of their record and then like like fucked up the record with like sandpaper and stuff and then like played it back into the tracks. Like that's how they made like some of those like classics, And so we did that. We got like tests you can get like test pressings made without
press you know, without making a whole record. So we had like separate tracks and we got test pressings like records made, and like we did we.
Just basically like stole that idea.
And so like when you hear like if you listener Lifted and you hear like the pops and the crackles and like the drums on like Lover and stuff, Yeah, those are all onto a LP and then like recorded back into the tracks.
Wow, the drums on Lover are fucking really good. Are really good that's that whole record.
We had like a kind of a drum corps like approach where you had like three drummers and a marching band kind of style.
Yeah, we like we're into some weird stuff.
There's a Leonard Cohen album, Death of a Lady's Man that Phil Spector produced that we're trying to ammunilate that out as well. But like, but like I'm like, you know, they have like real stuff happening there, and you have like the you know, the equivalent of our like sixth grade orchestra.
Back then, like like early bride as, it was like.
Oh she owns a viola? Can you know? It was so yeah, it was kind of like if you had an instrument that was like interesting, we'd like record it. So it's cool. It sounds like kind of insane, but you know, later on, like when Nate joined the band, fully it kind of graduated to like go on to Capitol Studios and recording like actual orchestras.
But yeah, you guys did a great approximation. I mean even you know, like cursive man, like some of the string arrangements and I don't know how arranged they actually were. I mean, you know, or not, but they sound like it. They're you know amazing, you know, yeah it would and like all that.
I mean it's just like whoa, you know, yeah, the interplay between those guitars and the cello with like very kind of special special combo.
I feel like that the Ugly Ugly organ. It's a record that doesn't get enough love, you know, it's a.
That's a great one.
I think my favorite is actually, uh Happy Hollow, which is like the next one after that.
Yeah, are you still gonna tour in the new year?
Yeah? Starting but januine I want to say sixteenth or something like that in Phoenix, and so it's like us were kind of the first half of the year and then go to Europe in summer. Yeah, kind of hit the hit the road and play play this new record for the people.
Cool?
Is there anything between like that tour ending and that starting? Like with your voice, I know you have like we're having some vocal issues, like are you having to do certain things or avoid certain things?
Well, I like yeah, I mean, you know, this has actually been such a nice conversation. I was prepared for like doom and gloom with you know, the election and things.
Like figure out how to avoid it, you know.
Yeah, it's just like, well, like physically, I feel a lot better than I did a couple of months ago. Yeah, it was like it's I had like a problem with my esophagus and so I kind of see like into a lot of doctor's appointments and they stuck some robotic shit down my throat and so.
I yeah, fingers crossed.
But I've been just singing around here and it feels totally back to normal.
So hopefully, yeah, we'll just get back out there.
It was. It was definitely like a bummer that kind of coincided with like when the record was coming out, but really it was always meant to be. The shows in the fall were kind of I don't want to say promo, but they were.
They were.
Yeah.
They were like yeah, like smaller venues and like sort of doing press for the record, and then the actual tour tour was always in twenty twenty five, so it was and we're gonna hopefully make up. We're gonna go to.
All those cities again like that we missed.
So cool. I haven't asked any questions about this Barcidos. I do want to ask about that, and I guess I'm curious. You know, those songs were very political in their way when the President talks to God political in its way. Did those songs sound like that when you first wrote them or were they like radically different when you initially wrote them before taking them to the band.
No, like THEOS songs were like a different process, Like
we we wrote them all. I mean I would maybe have a chord progression or Denver Dally who was the other guitar player, would have like some musical thing, But we wrote them all like in the band room, like loud so and I would I would have like a we'd make like I don't know, I guess the first record whatever we had at the time, like mini diss or some kind of recording device, and I would just kind of sing scream like gibberish to get like a melody, and then I, you know, write write the words to
the melody. And yeah, it was always kind of and we knew what we wanted to sing about, you know, and kind of just I guess going towards that tradition of you know, political punk rock, pop punk, whatever you want to call it, hardcore.
I guess it didn't feel so pop punk to me, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess whatever.
That is the story of guitars and screaming.
Maybe little little cap and jazz ish yeah in a way. Yeah.
So but we had a trouble. We had trouble, like just stay in a band for very long. I think we were like a band for a couple of years at first, and then we kind of like broke up. And then we made another record only fifteen and right when we we like finished, we like mixed the record, and then like nine to eleven happened, and it was like, oh, we made this like slightly anti American, like anti capitalists. There was a.
Flag on every house in the world, and like and on.
Yeah, we went on tour, and I mean people that came to our shows were like, you know, I think on the same page to some degree. But yeah, doing interviews and things, it was it was like a classic classic bad timing but or maybe good timing. I always said, like I was like, well, the most American thing you can do is like descent, you know, so I think right in that sense, there's the right time. I just remember.
After that it was things started getting really crazy and Bride Eyes World like moved to like touring on a bus and like playing like a lot of bigger shows. And I mean and to a certain degree, Discursus was always a side project because you know, I guess Bright Ass was just kind.
Of my main thing.
But I really did, like I still love like playing loud music and like screaming.
I'm getting like a little too old for it, but.
Yeah it's funny man. When Lifted came out, I just remember thinking like this is the most commercial fucking you know, not like the music, but just like the way the response. It felt like, holy fuck, this is a big record, you know, and like I don't even know how much I don't even know to which degree Bright Eyes fans even connect to that record or know that record. You know, there's so many sets, you know, but the time I was like, whove, you know, this is a this is a big record, you know.
Yeah, definitely, it was definitely a change.
It was like.
You know, real like had a tour manager, had a sound person, had touring a bus, had a real booking agent. It was like we're moving out of the van and out of the truly like yeah, why space into like oh, we're like a band that's in magazines and yeah those real shows. Yeah, that was it.
Was a transitional time.
Yeah, yeah, pre I guess that area you were talking about, like that re election of Bush, there weren't many people voicing what you were on that right, you know, like I don't want to be ashamed to be American. I feel like being ashamed of an American was very common by like two thousand and five or six or seven,
but you know, and the time an American idiot. Yeah, by the time of an American idiot, I feel like that was a very popular sentiment, but in like two thousand and two thousand and one, that did not feel very commonplace at all. You know. Yeah, well then very anticipatory in that way. I don't know, you know, yeah.
I remember, well, I guess it kind of makes sense.
I don't know. I remember being like all these like British journalists coming to interview us, like Uncut and Mojo and all that stuff. It's almost like they it made more sense to them, I think than like US press or something. Yeah, they were like into it, you know, They're like political punk is bad, you know, and I think here it was kind of just I don't know they I think people liked the music, but maybe weren't didn't care that much about the words, you know.
Yeah, were you always a pretty political person?
Like or not? Really? I would say no, I mean definitely not. I think that like my awareness of politics started really like right around two thousand.
I remember being on tour when.
The first Bush election happened, and you know, it's like weeks till we knew who the president was. I just remember being like, this is strange, Like something is like this should it be like this?
Like?
And so I started kind of paying attention. I mean I was only like twenty, and then like nine to eleven happened, and then it was like we were all in it, you know, I mean make.
Sure remember just it was like it was like.
Everything felt very different and very real and very terrifying. And started to think about, like, I don't know, have a more global perspective.
And yeah, and.
Then I got and I got kind of more and more, you know, became kind of a news junkie and all the rest of it. But you did, yeah, I mean for sure, like after I kind of just felt like I needed to understand like what was happening, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was all especially back then. I mean now everything feels anything that's happening feels more or less very central to the US, Like it's all kind of like what's happening here? And how do we figure it out? But yeah, then it was kind of like what like whoa like a Sunni and a Shia and you know, a bath and like it's like like what are these? You know? And I mean perhaps or should be ashamed, but yeah, who knew? You know, I barely
knew what a Democrat and Republican? Was it that exactly know anything? But yeah, weird weird times you were talking about how you mentioned how you were cool. Yeah, we can wrap up. What do you What do you do to warm up? Vocally?
Typically, I've never done I've been on tour with people that do the vocal you know that. No, no, Nony Noon.
All like do it to like the tapes and stuff that, you know, never did that.
I just I mean, my I don't really have any magic, magic tricks. It's like a lot of a lot of like tea and I mean I've tried all kinds of like things like various potions and singers, saving Grace and like low quad and all the stuff you can get at the health food store. And then if you're really desperate and you gotta play a big show, the secret
is the rock doc. It will come to your show, depending on what city you're in and give you a cortizone shot and like a beach well shot in your ass, and then you can sing like you've never sang before. But the problem is when your voice gets sore, it's your body telling you to like rest it.
And like if you get a steroid shot.
You can sing loud and great, but you're just you're just you know, you're taking your your vocal cords and your throat and everything to like a place they shouldn't be taken to, just like physically speaking. So I've had like times where I'll like I'll resort to that and then you know, the next morning, I'm like, really, I can't talk, you know. So it's kind of a that's
like a desperate desperate times situation. But you always hear like remembers about like there's some people that get one before like every show, you know, the older like Steven Tyler or something.
You know, I remember walking in on someone one time was done it. It's like the first time.
I was kind of like, oh ship, Yeah, it's it's it's really fun like the show you play on it because you're like all like, you know, roid it out and I feel, you know, you didn't rip your shirt off and scream your lad.
And yeah, we're waiting for that era. Connor Oberst. Man like the jiu jitsu d.
Connor Trent Reznor can lift weights? You know, I don't see why I can't.
It's a great point. It's a great point, cool man. Thanks for thanks for indulging me.
Man.
I feel like I took little more time than I needed to, but just it was fun to talk to.
You, and it's great talking to you the music, So thank you so much for doing it.
Thanks to Connor Oberst for taking time out of his vocal rest to have a chat about his new album, Five Dices All Threes and to talk through his lengthy career. You can hear some of our favorite Connor Obersts and Saddle Creek songs on a playlist in the episode description, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer
is Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm just enrichment