Pushkin Today Unbroken Record the One and only Bootsy Collins. Bootsy first exploded onto the scene in the early seventies as James Brown's young, electrifying bass player, but it was with Parliament Funkadelic that Bootsy truly found his voice or voices, balancing raw funk with a psychedelic, intergalactic persona that would
inspire everyone from Prince to Thundercat. In today's conversation, Bootsy talks about learning to navigate life as both William Collins, the introspective, spiritually grounded man from Cincinnati and Bootsy the Ryanstone rimmed avatar of groove. He also reflects on his writing partnership with George Clinton and keyboard wizard Bernie Warrel and how the three of them cooked up some of the most joyful and mind bending music in American history.
Even now, more than fifty years into his career, mains on the vanguard, embracing new technology, collaborating with young artists, and continuing to spread the one with his new record album of the Year, Number one funk Teer. This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations.
Here's my conversation with Bootsy Collins. So hopefully I can answer hopefully.
I mean, look, I try not to, you know, I try to have a more conversational stop so I trying to have.
Notes with me with you. I'm like, oh my gosh, too much. It's gonna it's gonna be flowing.
I don't know how you keep track of your life, man, Actually I don't.
It just happens, man, you know, I just let it go. Just let it go, just let it go, let it flow. Yeah.
Yeah, it's uh, it's got to feel like one short blur, right, not even long in a way, right, Like it's like.
It's you know, just you know, I got to the point where it's just all about you know, just watching observing, you know, because it's a lot of time in there that you know has been passed. And the onlyess way I can learn is just watch and observe and then try things. You know, Otherwise, you know, you know, you're not staying with the time. And I don't have to try to stay with the time because I watch it, you know, observe it and learn from it, you know,
not scared of it. Yeah, you know, because a lot of people get get scared when they start getting up in the age thing.
And yeah, you know, but when you were young, you weren't even trying to know, trying to fit.
In invincible man. I mean when you were young.
Even, it was like you're looking for what's this one doing or that one doing?
Yeah? I know that it never ends, man, you know, but come to find out, you know, it's sometimes to do you know, that that kind of surge that you have, it kind of ends and then you're like, what do I do? Now? Wow? What what's what surge is that? Well, it's that the young surge that we all have, you know, coming up, and we always think that it'll always be that. You know, you work with that and it's always going to be that. Yeah, but it don't work out like that.
You know, you got you got a certain time. I hope you recording that you got a certain time you know to get through that one due to get through that portal, you know, and if if you don't get through it at that time, then you're a little more lost, you know. I just happen to try to stay open to what the universe is saying and what it's doing.
And the only reason I can watch and observe is I know too, you know, to you know, to grab hold of it and let it be yeah, you know, yeah, because you know if you don't let it do its thing, it's gonna it's gonna come back to get you. Yeah, you know, So that's what I try to do.
You know, how do you try to counteract the losing the surge or not having that surge?
You don't, I mean, because you know you have to. Well for me, I mean, most people try to stop it and try to do this, that and the other, but I know that don't work. Yeah. Yeah, It's like it's gonna happen, and you know, you just try to get prepared for it. You know, there's really no way to be prepared. It's just you just have to look
out for it and stay open minded. You know. It's like playing piano was one thing, and then when the era said, okay, synthesizers are coming in, being a piano player, you don't want to hear nothing about no synthesizer. You know, this is what I play piano, Acoustic piano. It's beautiful, you know, but here's a sensitizer that does this, It does that, it does this, and then you have to make up your mind whether you're gonna go with something new or stay with what you know, you know, and
a lot of people had problems with that. Bernie Warrell, on the other hand, he had no I mean that's what he grew up on, was piano and orgon, you know, and so when these synthesizers came in, he was, you know,
supposed to not have a clue, you know. Uh, And that's scary, that's scary for you know, for musicians to run into a wall where Okay, I got to decide what, you know, what I want to do, you know, because my way of living is in jeopardy now because you know, if I don't jump on that, don't nobody know that
that's gonna work. I mean, this is a beginning, you know, the acoustic has already been established, you know, so you have to make your mind up to either be a part of the future or stay with the past where you used to. And we've always been blessed with both, you know, the past and the future. And for me, you know, that works best. If you can't accept what's getting ready to change, and you know it's getting ready
to change, you know, then you're gonna get stuck. You know. Drummers, you know, they were like you know, they was like spellbound when the drum machines come in. It's like the drum machines start taking over gigs, you know. And then Prince made them famous.
You know.
It's like that kick draw man. You can feel. I mean you can you can walk in the club nowhere. You know, you can come in anywhere. You'll feel that. And so everybody wanted to change, you know, but drummers was upset. You know. For me, you know, it's like you should be you know, all you got to do is shift you're thinking, you know, because it's like you can play live drums and learn something new, what's happening today,
you know. But a lot of them casts was like so mad, and they was like, you know, you should be mad too. I'm like, you know, I mean, you know, I play bass, I play guitar, I played drums, I mean you know, and I also learned how to program the lend drum. I got one, you know. And so if you don't stay up with the time, the time ain't gonna be good to you, you know. So you know, I try to stay up, you know, hang with the the new generation, the new era of musicians as well
as the old, you know. And the key is not trying to not try to change nobody's thinking. You know, they have to make that up themselves, you know. And I think that's why I have a good rapport with everybody, because I'm not trying to change nobody. You know. This is just the way I came up, and it's the way I got the you know. But you know, if you see something you like, you're welcome to it. You know. If you don't, I'm cool with it. You know.
Do you spend a lot of time listening to new music or any amount of you're listening time listening to anything new?
Every since day one? You know, Day one, I was listening because I didn't have nothing in there, you know that I thought, you know, it's like I'm learning, you know, I got to learn how to play, you know. But my brother, Catfish, he was like playing guitar and he was like eight years older than I. So I start to want to be what he is, you know, And that's what kicked my whole thing off, you know, not having a father in the house, but having an older
brother that I really wanted to be like. I didn't want to be like my dad because what I had heard he was a womanizer, alcohol all, you know, and all that, which I could have been, you know, because that's the way I started, you know. And so my brother, on the other hand, he was somebody that I admired. You know. They had to close, you know, they had
the processes, you know. I mean it was during that era that was like, you know, we didn't know who we were yet, but we knew something was getting ready to happen big, you know, and and so we just continue, continue to continue, and getting involved with him and wanting to be in a band with him was my dream.
That was the dream. The only dream I had was to be in a band to get my mother out of the ghetto where we were at, and so we can live, you know, and you know, so she can enjoyed life, because watching her come up was like, you know, we'd go out to the places that she was working and scrubbing floors and all that, you know, and that made us sad. You know, It's like a sadness that
always sticks with you. And so I made up in my mind, if I ever get together and make something happen, Mama is always first, you know, which was your mom happy that you guys were into music or was it kind of like she was happy, She was supportive, she knew you know, like a lot of mothers would try to get in the way, she you know, she'd do anything she could to help feed you know, that fire
that we had because she recognized it. You know, I think, you know, this is just my thinking that if I had had a father in the house, he would have been trying to make me a certain way, you know, So I didn't have that. You know, I wouldn't push that on everybody, but for me, it worked without him being in the house.
A mother's more sometimes nurturing nature was beneficial for us.
And that's what that's what we needed. She gave us just what we needed. She showed us without showing us, you know, she would instead of just telling us, she would more show us. So that's what I picked up. Like when I got out in the world, you know, it was like I knew the street you know, the street talk, I knew the street language. But at the same time, it was like, you know, give what you can give, be who you are and show people instead of telling them what to do. Be who you are,
you know. So I learned that early and Thank god I did, because that stuck with me through all the changes we've been through, you know, and the power of the one is the power of the one, you know, and I grabbed onto it.
Yeah, as you started to develop as a as a as who you would becoming, as you started to become more bootsy, and you come home and see your mom, what was her reaction?
That's funny, Oh man, she watched me. She let me get away with a lot, you know, but she had to remind me one time when I came home that I'm still William Collins, you know, and I had forgot
who that guy was. You know, when you get caught up in that fame thing, you know, and it happens to pretty much everybody, you know, because you don't you know, you don't know, you know, you don't know what that fame and money and you know, we didn't know nothing about none of that stuff, you know, And so I got so caught up, you know that you know, I didn't know. I'm supposed to come home, chill out, you know, take out the garbage, you know, and do what I'm
supposed to do. Instead of coming back being bootsy, you know, I bring the whole crew, you know, got the whole crew, you know, because Mama liked to feed everybody, you know. But this particular time, she had got fed up with me coming home with all these chicks and you know, just you know, just being bootsy, you know, and it's like, she's going to prove to me that you when you
come home, you William. You ain't no bootsy, you know, and she smacked my glasses off, you know, in front of everybody, and I was like, okay, you know, I went up ran up to my room, you know, and you know, I got dealt with as far as what I'm supposed to be and who I'm I'm supposed to be when I'm home, you know, and you know that's what helped me develop as a supposedly start out in the world and come home, I can be me. You know.
That got so separated from me that I was lost, you know, I was really lost, and I start figuring out, like I see now what happened to those little young child actors. You know, they learned that one way all their life, and then when they get to be grown, they don't know how to act because they don't know who they are, you know. And so when I start figuring out who I was. You know, that's when the magic really started happening. As far as me realizing who
I am. You know, I had to go through a lot of things, a lot of drugs, a lot of accidents. You know. The last act that I was in with the motorcycle, you know, reminded me of who and what I am. And you're not invincible, you know. You know, you take you know, forget the help, and you know, you got your hair on, you know, you get riding the bike, you got the chicks on the back. You know, it's a whole other thing, a whole other world, you know.
And then once I flipped over about three times, you know, riding in the woods, you know, a place I shouldn't have had a street bike anyway, I found out that you're not invincible, you know, loaded to the gills, you know. And that's the thing that snapped me out of a lot of you know, the fortune and fame thing, you know. And I watch it every day as I see the young era coming in, and you know, so I get a chance to watch it now as opposed to just be in it and stuck.
Yeah, you also collaborate with a lot of young artists there too, and like do they ever Do they ever? I mean you kind of can't insert yourself when you're not wanting, But did they ever come to you and ask you how did you survive?
They do? They do it all the time, and you know, I try to explain it in a way where that's what I do because you know, for me, you know, to tell a person not to do something and you know, it didn't work on me. I mean, you know, James Brown was telling me not to do this and not to do that, and it didn't work. Yeah, you know, as a matter of fact, it pushed me further and further away from him, you know, because he was trying to be my father, you know, and it's like, you know,
I couldn't tell him you can't be my father. But at the same time, it was like he was doing that because that's what he you know, that's what he felt, you know, he felt like a father figure and you know, so I had to I gave him that respect. And at the same time, it was like, I see what
helped push me, you know, over the edge. Like if you tell me to not do something, I'm gonna do it, you know, So I figured the kids now they think the same way, and so I really stay away from trying to tell them what to do, and I show them how I am, you know, and then if they pick up something, cool if they don't, you know, but don't look for me to actually tell you what to do in your life. You know, I'll show you what I did if you ask, you know. But other than that,
you know, it's like we're cool, you know. Yeah, yeah, when when did you get sober? Really sober?
And when I met Peppermint Patty, I faked like I was sober in nineteen eighty three, you know, but.
It kept coming back, you know, up until nineteen eighty eight. Is when I made my mind up that you know, I'm gonna do it, you know, and I called Turkey.
You know.
It was like it was really really deep. But she helped me. A lot of people helped by just being themselves, you know, and talking a lot of faith and works and how it goes together. But the difference for me was everybody that talked about faith had a particular way that they wanted you to dive in, you know, and to me, I had a problem with that because for me, it's like respect everybody's father, whoever they choose, respect it, you know. To me, it's really simple, you know, And
I don't have to. I don't feel like I have to change nobody. You know, they'll change it's like I did, or they won't, you know, So that's all up to the person. But I'm not to be the judge of that, you know, And that's that makes me feel good when I see how God has changed me and how it affects people without me trying to be the number one. You know, I'm not number one. You're not number one either. You know. We're a part of the one, you know, and anybody that feels like they are the one, I
let them have it. You are the one, you know. But I know that all of us together equals the one. You know. If we ain't all together on it ain't nobody to one.
Yeah, it's interesting here you say that because you also, I mean, you know, because you in a way you do have like like Boots, Like there's a such a bravado to the character of Bucy that's fun and amazing. But it's incredible you say that, like you know, I'm not number one, Like I'm not like am.
I saying boots to me, I'm not I'm not fooling myself anymore. I mean I went for it. When it happened, you know, it blew up so big. You know, it was scary. You know, it's like Frankenstein invented the monster and then the monster turned on him, you know, and that's what happened to me. When did you realize it was scary?
Like?
What was there an incident or it was a whole lot of incidents, oh man, but you know, one at one thing after another. I mean, you have to actually pay to be that star, you know, to be that gigantic being. You have to pay for that. You know. It's not like, you know, you learn all this and then you know, you know, you get up there and everything's cool. Everything was cool, but you got to realize there's a cost, you know, and you never you never
learned about that. Nobody explains that to you because all you want to do is play, make money, be successful, Da da da da day, you know, and you don't even think about that, you know, until it starts crumbling down on you. Like you know, wow, I didn't go out there to you know, pay the bills, like for the truck. I gotta pay the account. I gotta pay the ban I gotta. I didn't go out there for that. I went out there because I wanted to play to
the people, period. You know. I didn't want all those other responsibilities, you know, but all of that falls on you when you're out front doing the thing and becoming this big, major star, you know. So I wasn't ready. I wasn't and I'll never be ready for that because I don't want to, you know, I don't want that kind of responsibility, responsibility that I got now. I feel
like I can take care of that. But if it gets any bigger, I will be prepared because I'm being prepared now, you know, otherwise, and then I can see it coming because I know it's coming. But then you can't see nothing, you know, all you see is the good things. You know. I can get all this, I can get all that. I can do her, I can do her. Yeah, I can do that. I can do that.
You know. You can do everything, you know, And so you guys were yeah, yeah, yeah, And to make it through that is enough for me to just be like, if you want that, you got it, got you know, yeah, And I'm here for you if you need me.
We'll be right back with more from Bootsy Collins after the break. When you put out Bootsi's Rubber Band, for instance, and you sort of start becoming your own entity within the Parliament organization, the Parliament Funkadelic organization. Did you feel that coming? Did you know you were gonna be like the guy to be?
I didn't want to be the guy, that's first off.
I didn't want. All I wanted to do was play in the band, you know, and that's stuck with me throughout the whole thing, and I couldn't figure out, well, I figured out why I was in the front, you know, because George really wanted me to be the front of my own band as opposed to just being in Parliament Funkadelic, and I really didn't want that, you know, But he starts showing me ways that it would be beneficial if I, you know, took off on another another band, because I
had been playing with all of them, you know, and I had my own band when I first got there, and I still had them, so it was like, you should take them on the road, and I'll take parliam and fro Unkadella. He had a great The concept was great. You know. But the downside was I wasn't ready to be a front man, you know, and so all those years that I was learning, I was losing interest in being because that ain't what I wanted to be.
You really didn't want to that when you know, I call that first album cover at Thrasher Design with that you want to well.
Well, that's part of what helped turn into oh this this might be all right? You know, you know everybody checked this out. Yeah, that's the part that gets you. You know, when when it you know, when it first starts and then something happened would Warner Brothers. Wow? Then it starts hitting you like wow, you know, and then gigs start coming up. And I was just talking to my man out here about you know, Dave Liebert. He came in and started booking us, and you know, it's
just start growing so fast. And I wasn't ready for that, you know, I wouldn't all what I was ready for was playing with Parliam and Funkadella. You really still just wanted to be part of that, hey man. That was that was the beauty, the beauty of you know, a band is playing together, you know. Uh. And I knew that if I if we separated them. You know, I knew that the weight was going to fall on me.
You know, if I didn't have no sense at all, I knew it was gonna follow on me if I take that, you know, that approach of being a solo artist. You know. But when I saw seeing all the good parts that is going to benefits, you know, I was like, Okay, George, you know I do it. So I cave in, you know, and sure enough it turned out the way I was thinking, you know, and you can call that stinking thinking, you know,
but that ain't what I wanted. You know. What I wanted was to be with the band and make people feel good about themselves, having fun. You know. Actually fun had more to do with it than making money. You know, when we got with James Brown, I thought we had to pay him, you know, I mean that's how you know, we just didn't know, you know, like the artists now musicians now know about getting paid. You know, we were just having a good time. We want to have fun.
You know. It wasn't about the era of making money for us. You know, we just he snatched us off the street. You know, we was riding having a great time doing that. You know, and he snatched us off the street. How did he find you? Well, we played at King and King Records. That's the King fellow right there, he's the head here guy King and and so that's where we met James Brown. So that's a whole nother
long story. But Charles Berling brought us the King Records because he thought that we were such an energetic you know, rhythm section that you know, we could cut his records and cut you know, different sessions for and we wound up working with Hank Ballard Wow. Uh, Bill Doggett Uh, I mean, what's what's my man's name? Henry Glover was the first black producer you know of you know, not just rhythm and blues, but you know folk music. He
was doing everything at King Records. Wow. And you know his dad, ODIs Williams, was the head of Oldest Williams and the Charms Wow nowhere Yeah. Yeah, and so you know you never know, yeah, I mean you know, so so you know all of that, you know, I was growing into you know what those are?
Guys like like Hank Ballard and Bill Doggett are incredible Yeah, musicians from bang Bood, incredible front man even Yeah, talks about these days.
What was it like hanging around them? What were they like? Man very encouraging because they were true musicians, I mean, true to the bone, you know, and it was such a pleasure to be around them. And they treat you like regular people, you know, and so being around them kind of help set myself up to I want to be like that, you know. I want to be, you know, like able Town. I'm down to earth where you know, I might look crazy, you know, and I probably do. But at the same time, it's like I want to
be able to. I want people to have fun with me, you know, I want to I want them to chill, have a good time, and and if they whatever they want to say, say it, you know. And so I try to carry that, you know, once once I start picking up from them, you know, it's like we live on their backs. And that's what I talk about. You know, a lot of people want to put it all on me, but I have to tell them, you know, you know, I'm really not the one. You know. I worked at
being on the one, but I'm not. Well, I'm not the one. The one is bigger than all of us, you know, because it's all all of us collectively together.
Well, you know what's funny, It's like you're talking about how James was almost like a father figure, and like most father figures when you're when you're that age, you kind of want to like buck buck against him. Yeah, but his lesson about the one, oh all, seems to have always really stuck with you boys.
Yeah, what was like?
And you then you even go and introduce that to George and part of my funk delic in that because so how did that stick?
That stuck because I was in it and I got to see it work. You know, it wasn't just him talking, you know about the one. It was when I put it into effect in my music. That's when I found out he ain't just rapping. You know, this is real because soon as I start doing that because I played a lot of you know, playing guitar, and I got stuck on bass because my brother the play guitar and he needed a bass player. So that's how I got stuck on bass. And once that happened, you know, and
I'm with my brother, I'm happy. You know, I'm happy because I don't care what I play, a flute, clarinet, whatever with my brother, you know, that was the key. And we just happened to get picked up over there King Records, you know, because we was tearing it up. We were street kids, and we wasn't letting nothing get in the way nothing. I mean, oh you won't pay us, Oh that ain't no problem, you know, let us put let us put this funk down for you, you know.
And that was the attitude, you know. So but you were playing, and it's true you were playing a guitar. At first.
I learned rung like a bass, yeah, like a six strings guitar, but with four bass strings.
Well I had to do that because my brother needed a bass player, not a guitar player. And I just asked him, can you get me four bass strings? He got me four bass strings. And that night, you know, was our first gig. And the place was, the place was, let's see, it was about from here to the door, the whole place, the whole place, you know, no stage. We were standing on the floor and people were like this in your faith and drunk as I don't you know,
And here I am. I'm like fifteen, fourteen fifteen, and I got into place, you know, because of my brother. You know, he's like eight years older than I, so I get it in because, you know, because of him, and people are just getting off because I'm so young, you know, and I'm knowing, I'm knowing that they're getting off because I'm young, but I'm also playing what they like, you know. And so when I got with when we all got with James Brown, he tightened us up and
told us about the one once. Once that happened, you know, we all started knowing where the one was at, and it was like, oh, you mean like this, and James said, yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad I thought of it. You know. So everything he thought of which was great, you know, which at the time, you know, then, wasn't nobody telling us, man, y'all should be you know, y'all should be doing this, y'all.
You know, when the rappers came out and started sampling, everybody's telling me what I should be getting, you know, you know, And if it had been that era instead of the era I grew up in, they would have been right. Yeah. But the era I grew up in was, you know, we was what do you call working? What do you call that? Uh? You know, we was kind of like worked for hire. Oh yeah, freelance. Yeah, And it wasn't about you know, you know, us getting paid. It was about you mugs are here with James Brown,
and y'all better pay attention, you know. And that's what we did. We paid attention. And if somebody paid us, cool, If didn't, nobody pay us. We had a couple of dollars to go get some wine. A couple of girls in the backseat were good, were good.
And he had a way of for I guess for people who don't understand the one, it's just a way of organizing your playing where you're emphasizing.
You're emphasizing that one on every four you know, four bards. And you know that's so true to this day. Even the computers, you know, they they got it shows you what the one is. That that's it. That's it, I mean, And no computers worked like you know, they don't don't work like that. They work like that, you know. And for James to be told us about the one way back in those years and then to this day, it's it's still a give them a nye. I mean, it's
still there, you know. And once you start doing that, you put the emphasis on that people feel that they vibe off of that. You know, it's like a internal clock, you know, it's the heartbeat of the world. You know.
So what about like when you go into play with like you did a Herbie Hancock record with Sugar for Bonner from Ohio players. Can you can you do that on a on a Herbie record?
Well, it's it's it's all the same thing, but it's in different measures, you know, different bars. You know. You know they they got a one too, but you know, them being jazz musicians, they got a certain count, you know. But it all, if you know, it all comes back to one. You know, they got they got to come to the one too. Everybody got to come to the one. I don't care what it is. You know, it's just not four four, you know, it can be five, you know, five, seven,
you know, you know whatever whatever that is. But it all has to come back to one.
And when you when when you're introducing this concept of parliament funk dialect, this thing that James taught you would it have been big Foot Bradley on drums at that time or Tiki Fu was.
Both of them? Both of them were there? Yeah, Well it was Tiki first, Tyrone and then Bigfoot. Yeah yeah, and for me, I think bigfootre Braley brought home the p funk. You know, Tiki brought home on the funkadelic side. You know. Tyron Lapkin, he was just an all out next level drummer, you know. I mean he made you stop and like watch him. You know. You know, it wasn't really about the one with him. You know, he'd do it if you, you know, told him to, but
it was about he was like a jazz drummer. Yeah, you know, he was all over the place, you know, and he find his own one, you know, so you know, which was cool because he always he always had to come back. You know, I don't know what his count was, but he knew what you know, he knew what it was. And that's what matters. You guys.
You guys were playing that just completely different feels going. But that would maybe be some of the magic is that's what you're feeling one thing, he's feeling a different post.
And you are allowed to do it. You know, that has a big emphasis on how you feel about doing what you're doing, you know, because if you're not allowed to do it, you know, then you feel like you're constricted. You can't express you can't self express yourself, you know, the way you want to. And in that era, it was very important to express yourself, you know, just like the record express yourself, you know, your boy I mean
The Boys was funky or the original exactly Charles Wright. Yes, yes, yeah, so you know, and we had all of that that we was growing up in and today, you know, it's like where is that at? You know, I mean we had we grew up in such a great musical era, you know, to have all that around you, you know, to absorb all of that and then wake up one day and it's not there. You know, it's like, how does that feel? You know, people like ask me, how does that feel? You know? I had to learn, you know.
The good thing for me is learning while I'm on the job. You know, I'm sure I'm learning, you know. And when we got to this part here, it's like I was kind of prepared, you know, to accept, Okay, it's done change, you know, because I was in the changing while it was changing. Yeah, you know, so I got a chance to adjust. And most people that I'm not gonna stop playing the acoustic. I'm not gonna you know, play the electric. Yeah, but I love this acoustic you know.
That's how I observed it and was like, whatever comes in, I'm gonna learn how to you know, or if I can't do it, I'm getting somebody else to do it. You know.
After the last break, we'll be back with the rest of Bootsy Collins. Were you getting blowback then, like, because you know you Larry Graham all right around that same time. Yeah, really changing the nature of bass playing, you know, like and really making it a different a different instrument.
You know. Well, I was so glad to be a part of that, you know, you know, because it was only a few of us, you know, and you know, it's like James Jamison was the cat that really changed my mind about bass playing, you know, because he had he played with one finger. All of that stuff he was playing, he used one finger, you know. Wow. Yeah, and he I'm glad you mentioned that. He all those
hit records beforehand. He played upright, upright bass. He got introduced to Defender P bass and he wanted to play the P bass. Motown said, now you know you can't play that. You ain't made no money with you know, playing that. So they didn't want to change, but he said if you want me, I'm playing the p bass and then all after all after that, you know, the
upright base, all the stuff after that. He made much more money for them, And you know, he was a perfect example to accept and embrace that change that we're talking about right now that most musicians don't want to don't want to deal with. You know, we're always gonna run into that change that we don't want to change. You know. It's like sampling. You know, it's like, you know, oh man, God, the sampling. What we're gonna do? It's you know, it's just like AI, what we're gonna do.
You know, they're coming in and they're coming to get us. They coming, you know, take our gigs, you know, And so it's the same thing, you know. So I'm getting ready to face this along with the rest of the world. But the only difference is I know it's coming, you know, and we made it through the sampling era. You know, we can make it through this one too, you know. So you know, and I can't tell nobody how to
do it because I don't know. I didn't know how to do the sampling though, you know, I didn't even know that was coming, you know, until you in it. You know, once you're in it, then you you know, you have to try to figure out, you know, like, wow,
what do you do? You know? And so that's what I have to say about the AI because because everybody's talking asking me about that, you know, and you know, we'll learn, We'll all learn how to deal with it, you know, because it ain't no way you're gonna keep it from coming. That.
That's sort of that sensibility of just have taken things as they come and working with it.
I've heard you talk about.
Getting lost as a part of your creative process, and that seems to.
Kind of fit with that. And that's like, well, we don't know where it's going, but but we're going anyway. We're going anywhere, you know, and there we go. That was one of my whole sayings is I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going. That's one of my whole you know, it's like very short sentence, but you know, I'm committed to that, you know, and people be hanging their hopes on well, somebody tell us what to do. Hey,
I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going. You know, that right there just tells you that you have to prepare yourself because it's coming, whatever that it is, you know, it's definitely coming, you know, and so you have to try to prepare yourself the best you can. I'm glad you're not running from it. And oh no, on the only thing I'm scared of is flying. He hasn't asked me about it because you pulled up in R and V. When did the flying things start? Oh that's all enough,
that's all. When did that happened? Since you brought it up, that happened? That happened in nineteen seventy nine. You know, I wanted to fly on the the concord, you know, when Meg for what.
You could get seed or.
Not light, speeding sound or whatever. That's it. That's it. So I wanted to fly on it because you know, it was our first time going to Europe, you know,
and me headlining. You know, it's like I don't you know, just breaking off from Parliament Funkadelic and we getting ready to go a headline in London and all England in Paris, frank all that, you know, And and so I wants to fly on the concord, and so I get to fly on the concord you know, So forty five minutes into the flight, you know, everybody's you know, you know, happy, beautiful, And forty five minutes into the flight, the captain comes on and says, you know, because I knew something was
wrong because the plane was you know, we was flying like this, you know, and it's like, you know, and I'm sitting there and I'm looking out the wonder and then I saw fire shooting out the engine and I was like, oh, like, im like, we just we just made it, you know. And then not only that Jaws
was a big movie. Then it's like, okay, if you make the crash right you falling in Jaw's territory, the right Atlantic, all this come to me, I mean, you know, and it's like, oh, man, if I ever get on the ground again, I would never ever fly, you know. And sure enough I got. We made He turned the plane around. You know, we were just getting ready to cross the line, you know, but he turned the plane around, and we was flying like this all the way back
to New York. Got back to New York. He landed the plane some kind of way, I mean, told us to put our heads down. You know. We went through the whole drill the whole drill, you know, and the tool was so big though that they talked me in the you know, taking the next flight out, which was a seven forty seven. Yeah, and then and then they gave me some drugs to just sleep. I didn't wake up until I got over there, so, you know. And then when I got back, no more flying. That was it.
Nineteen seventy nine, Well that was it up until I think it was more like two thousand.
Yeah, it's a bad time to start back, I know, I know, and I did it.
I did, and you know, I lost that fear until COVID. Once COVID hit, you know, it was like, okay, I got I can't fly no more. I can't. What happened is how you watch Jaws again more. I didn't watch it. I didn't watch it, but but you know, it's always I get these signals, you know, and I call it the universe. You know, it's like, Okay, you can't fly now. And I don't even question it if I hear that, you know, because you know, because I'm, like I said,
I'm really not afraid, you know, until unless it's heights. Yeah, I'm scared of heights and flying.
That's why you didn't tell me you're not afraid.
I'm letting you know. I'm letting you know. When it comes out, all heights I'm through. I mean, you know, the roller coasters, I love it, you know, and you know we we rode on them thousands of times, you know.
But she didn't never know I was scared of heights, you know, until one day I just broke out into it, you know, because we was up in one of those hotels that you know, you ride up in the elevator and you could see yourself going up, but then you know, then it's like, oh, man, I couldn't even look over the you know, like if you're up on the forty floor or whatever window, look, man, I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. But you know, that's that's the
two things that got me scared to death. You go to the Grand Canyon or anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If it's natural, is that okay? That that's okay? Because I'm not going to go to the edge, you know, and look over I'm not you know, I'm staying away from that, okay. You know.
So it's something you do do you navigate around bridges on the r v or no is that Okay, that's.
Kind of deep, that's kind of we don't go there, not sorry that trail bike, trail bike in in the you know, that's cool.
You know, as long as it ain't no way up in the air, I'm good with. Okay, okay, you know, okay, yeah, okay, I.
Get that though, because honestly, to a COVID, once you're grounded, you're not going anywhere.
You're not driving.
To the point too, I used to love to drive, like everywhere I could drive.
See that now you four hours, now you hit it. But I'm like, now, I'm like, now driving that's all. That's all I used to do. I would take George from New Jersey down to Miami, Florida, and all we're doing is listening to music, getting loaded, and me driving because he couldn't drive. He didn't have a license, didn't want a license. Really, yeah, that was a getaway for us.
You know, we go to Florida and fish. You know, we rent a yacht and that was our getaway because we was under a lot of pressure trying to get these groups and getting the songs and the albums. Because George was developing a whole new concept where each group was on a different label, and you know, we didn't realize at the time what he was doing. He didn't really realize, but he thought, you know, that would have them fighting against each other to make sure that they
pushed their own group. And it worked.
It worked.
Like did he get sued for that or no?
No?
No, I mean you know at that particular time, you know, it's like sampling comeing in and you don't know what to do with it. They didn't know what to do with that. You know, he was a genius as far as the you know, it's like, damn, how do you figure that out? You know? So no, I mean all of them felt like fools, you know. So you know, they didn't want you to know that they were that stupid, you know. So you know he got away with it. That's incredible. Yeah.
And then you guys, eventually, because it was like Casablanca and west Bound exactly, then you guys throw a Warner.
Yeah, Warner Atlantic had horny horns. Wow. Uh uh. Columbia I think had the Brides and so and Paul add it was on I can't remember, maybe they were on Westbound, I can't remember what. But every group was on a different you know, and and then Boosy rubber Band was on Warners you know. Yeah, so that was the whole thing. That's where doctor Dre and Snoop got that whole concept from. You know, it's because that's that whole empire that we kind of you know, came came through and we didn't
know what we was doing. Dre and Snoop they know what they're doing. You know, they take care of business. We wasn't taking care of no business. We were just doing what we thought, you know, what would help us at the moment. You know. It wasn't like we was looking for longevity or we were looking you know, for legacy,
you know, none of that. You know. It was like, man, I can get some more drugs, you know, like did you get because you know, I know like Hendrix was a big you know for all you guys, big poster on you you know, like his passing, that's that didn't spook anyone, like no, because you know, we kind of kind of felt the inside story. You know. I used to yeah, yeah, I used to go out with his uh, his friend Litho Fame.
You I was just talking about her because she's in the she's like the star of his documentary that came for him like seventy one or two.
Well, she was on the road with us with James Brown, and she would ride the bus with us, you know. Uh, and she was gonna take me to meet Jimmy, you know. But what happened was, you know, when he was working, we were working, you know, because everybody was on the road at that time, you know, and so we never got a chance to hook up. Wow yeah yeah, it was deep wow yeah. And she told you what yeah wow, yeah, yeah,
they do. And the rap was they don't ever want another one of those kind of talents to to reach that level because they can rule the world, you know, and we can't have that, you know. So you know, and then when we came on the scene, it was like, oh, let's make sure these mother you know, we got to shut these mothers down because they a big threat. Yeah, you know. And we wasn't trying to do nothing but play music and express ourselves. Yeah, you know, but it was a it was complicated.
Did you have a relationship with with with Kiss beyond just a label?
Just a label, you know, as far as the label, you know, and we both used the same clothes designer, you know, Lugaspi Lagasy yeah in New York, you know, so, and then Patty LaBelle and then they used them too, and they were they had the same lawyer we had, so it was all kind of all you know, kind of screwed up there.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm getting the picture now, groupe, same lawyer, right right?
What once?
Talk about the new album too before we get there. The song like your songwright songwriter you George and Bernie as like a songwriting unit.
Yeah, how did how did that start? Oh? Wow, I see how did it start? I guess it started with going in cutting tracks, and then Bernie and I would cut tracks, and then George would come in with the party, you know, because he always brought the party and we're trying to get some music down, and he'd bring the party in and busted up, you know, and he'd come in loud, you know, and he had this microphone you know, in the control room that he would get on, you know,
as soon as he walk in. You know, he heard the music and he was live. I mean, he was so live and loud. You know, it's like we was like, wait a minute, George, hold up man, we're trying to you know, figure this arrangement out, you know, but he was so hyped up about whatever we was doing, you know, and he would come up with words, you know, and lyrics and stuff right on the spot.
Man, Let's talk about the new album, I mean, talk about not being afraid.
Yeah, not not.
I mean, you know, there's no boundaries still with your there's still he wasn't now me like there's no world box or boundaries in which well, you know, after what we've all kind of been through, it's like.
Ain't nothing new they can do to us. I mean, you know, you know, we pretty much know, we pretty much know the game, you know, and so that allows me to do more of what are you to do? But even more than that, you know, because I'm not afraid, you know, it's more like I got a bigger audience to play too. And not only that, you know, I'm standing in front of them trying to show them that
they can do it too. That's my whole thing about the mirror star glasses I had, you know, made was when the people looking, when the kid looks into my eyes, he sees itself, you know, And to me, that meant more than him seeing me, you know, And that's why I had the star glasses make you know, the same thing with the bass the space base. If you notice this mirror all on the you know, and that was when the lights hit the space Base. It's gonna hit
you too, you know. And so all of that was you know, I thought of that beforehand, before I actually had it done, you know, because it had to have meaning, you know, not just me being a superhero or star. It had to be something deeper than that. Yeah, you know.
Yeah, these days when you're making music, Yeah, what's your how do you organ like?
Is there a there's no certain way. There's no certain way. No, it can come at any time. It can come through somebody else, or somebody else might spark you to go in a certain direction. You know. I don't ever put it on How do should I come up with this music? It just comes. It always come.
You might be doing something, yeah, and what like a line or a melody will hit you or a line.
It either comes in a riff or melody or a beat. You know, if you got to be you know, if you got to beat down. I'm more comfortable now with having a beat, you know. Uh, just something you can go back, even if it's just a metrono, you know. And and then you can put this idea, doo doo doo dooo. Do do do do do do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do do do doo. You know, you can take that in a whole parliament thing, you know, put some collaps on that mode, you know. Do doo doo doo doo dooo doo doo dooo.
You put that, you get at the George, He'll kill it. He'll kill it, you know. So you know, that's the way it came then, that's the way it comes now. But it comes even more so now because of what I got around me, you know, different things. You know. It used to be all about out the musicians, you know, like because they're there, which yeah, you know. Now I had to up my game and figure out how to work the boy in the box, you know, and instead of putting it down, you know, I picked it up
and started learning. My son start teaching me how to work it.
You know.
I'm not like a professional engineer, none of that, but I know how to record myself, you know, and anytime something comes bang, I'm on it, you know. And I put the idea down and then I come back to it if I feel like, yeah, that's popping, you know. So that's that's kind of the way we do it now, because, like I said before, we always had the band with us.
You know, I had to get used to not having the band, you know, And so I know how teased and how hectic that is without the band because I've been through that, you know, and I learned how to deal with it, you know. And rejection is another thing that the younger generation has to deal with, and they don't know how to deal with that, you know. Rejection is that's a heck of a thing to be rejected, you know. And like the Funk has always been rejected,
you know. That's why we ain't never been in the you know, the Grammys and all that big stuff that you know, you know, mugs make you know, they ain't give they don't give a funk about that funk. You know. That's why we cut Album of the Year. We'll give it to ourselves number one funk tier. Now y'all funk with that. They gonna have to funk with that.
I love that, man, The ability of funk to give to the audience man, a feeling of of joy and eliminating vulnerability. And it's like before hip hop was was sort of the language of giving people confidence and that's what I feel it was like that was that's where funk lived, you know.
Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's totally it. And you know, for me, it's like the more I stay committed to that, the more I'll still be around and able to speak the language of today whatever it is, or I can speak the language of it yesterday. It don't make a difference, you know. It's being able to hang with whoever it is. Yeah, you know, and so when you feel started feeling comfortable with that, you start to feel comfortable with yourself, you know.
And now it's like the sky is not the limit because there's walls behind the sky. Yeah.
Yeah, we're so blessed to have you still making music and it's still just giving us that the bootsy energy man, because it's needed in the world.
Man, So thank you for everything. Oh, thank you man, thank you.
In episode description, you'll find a playlist of some of our favorite boots of tracks, along with songs from his new album album of the Year number one, Funk Tier. Be sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see all of our video interviews, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.
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Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollin. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad flete listening for four
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