Conversion Therapy Might Be Back

Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote, I'm Melissa Albrand. Today we're going to be talking about stolen antiquities, all the weird things Melissa found out in estate sale, the crazy conversations I had with a bouncer and JK. Rowling.

Oh, I hit four estate sales this weekend.

As actually an illness. You need to be stocked.

I do not need to be back. I love the state sales. There is nothing better. Yeah, we'll tell you something and we.

Could talk about Yeah, actually I want to talk about this with you.

Dead old lady clothes, dead old lady furniture, dead old lady.

Julis because they really don't because of late stage capitalism, they really don't make it like they used to anymore. So like if you can get your hands on like a sofa, sofa or a have re upholstered. Yeah, yeah, I've had a sofa for like three years and it's already and I spent a lot of sofas are expensive. I think this sofa might have been like four or five thousand dollars and now it's a piece of shit, and it really is like and that was that was

And I do it's a problem.

But ethically she gets furs, and ethically we feel like it's in this gray area where it's okay because the animal is already dead and.

It is vintage. It is vintage. I would never buy a new fur coat. I really wouldn't Swift.

He's already hate me on the internet, so peta people are going to come for me. I'm always posting Taylor Swift hate. She's a billionaire who's a crimate terrorist. So I don't know, you know, and there are a lot of them, like, it's just not the only one. I'm critical of all of them. But I'm not going to like be like, oh she does a step touch in her concert and has some like nice visuals. I'm gonna I'm gonna lay off this billionaire. No anyway, Sorry.

So that's weird.

But the but the peed of people will probably come for us for saying that. But I think vintage for feels okay.

It does feel okay to me, and I mean, and listen, I am more than willing to accept that maybe there's something that I might not know about this, and if somebody wants to nicely come at me.

We're open to suggestions.

We are, I really really am.

I'm one of the few men who actually takes notes and like says I'm sorry and incorporates it into his like work and life. So do you well, I don't know. If you ask my husband, you'd say something else.

And let the record reflect that Michael.

Charles Foot has never apologized to me.

Ever, I apologize to you all the time when I don't know. I just felt like I should say that.

Because he's lying. He's a liar.

The phone, he got her on the phone. No, but you got good stuff at the Estates I did.

I actually bought a shaved Lamb's woolf jacket.

I love that.

Instantly You're like, oh, I got all this great stuff, Like you know, there was like sofas and like ot stuff right for the Yeah.

Besides, and I also got a couple of like Cashmere sweater.

Okay, that's great, I no, no, I love it.

I read an interesting article about Kashmir, how like we have overbred sheep in such a way that Kashmir is no longer what it once was. So if you can get your hands on a vintage Kashmere sweater, it will feel different.

So now, well, I definitely think that the yes, I agree on that with the Kashmir. So now Kashmir is like one or two ply and it's basically see through, which is why it's so it's like relatively expenses relative, it's relatively less expensive than it used to be because the quality is because.

Now you can go to blooming Del's and get a fifty nine to ninety nine or there's sweater, but it'll be very thin.

It'll be very thin. It's like linen. Also, equality is not as what it used to be, which is I like to.

Say, to life and late stage capitalism. So those are states will sound really fun.

I went with my mother was out on this wreak.

Tell the people in America what happens when Magali passed a car accident.

So when we pass a car accident, I do my best not to look at all, right, because A I don't want to see any carnage.

Number one that you can't you can't unsee that.

But also I am aware that when you're driving past anything, you kind of slow down. You can't help it, right, you just kind of slow down. So I will almost speed up to go past. And my mother inevitably Melissa, why why I wanted to see?

And I'm like, I don't want to see it, and you just like I want to see. It's really let me. Did I ever tell you what? I did?

Tell you?

This story about my mother This really long time ago. We were in Haiti.

And we were.

Headed home and there was a woman, two women and.

A child walking up the hill and then the kid and the kid started to run out into the street and the mom grabbed him by the scruff.

Of the shirt.

And in the meantime, I don't remember the story, remember this, I don't remember this.

My mother rolls the window down as this woman is walloping her kid and she's encouraging the lady to hit her kids.

She's doing she's like.

Doing it, and I was like, Mom, what is wrong with you? And then her mother hit him, and then.

My mother says to me, can you imagine what a bad day I would have had if we hit this kid?

May we all.

And she said it we all have the confidence on My mom says this to my fun.

How awful my day would have been?

If we we get home and we tell my dad this story, and he's just like, yeah, it's like the noted.

It would have been a really bad day for your mother.

My lung just collapse. If we don't get canceled for the fur, it's going to be the driving Listen, I was sounds like a punchline. It's kill or be killed. It's rough. Really, yeah, I mean I can I've never been to Haiti, but I can imagine.

I mean I think.

I mean anytime I've seen like videos of what it's like to drive in like India, or what it's like to drive in Sri Lanka or Pakistan, there is a certain level of chaos, and I will say, if you can drive in those places, you can absolutely drive anywhere.

I've been in a car with Melissa mel Branch a couple of times. You to me, Yeah, we went to the beach that one time.

Oh that's right.

Yeah, she does drive like a girl who grew up in Queens like. She is very much like that stop signs a foot away and we're going to just start pressing on.

The top of a break, are you okay?

Yeah, I'm fine. I mean I made it out alive and we got there pretty snappy. Yes we did.

I've got places to go. I have shiit to do.

In then out. Yeah, she's got four fucking estate sales to go to.

Listen. I will not be judged by the likes.

Okay, I just want to tell you this one thing that a bouncer said to me this weekend. We don't have to get into the whole story about me going out. It's okay, we all support my lifestyle, especially Melissa, but I do just have to tell you that this bouncer, first of all, Lady bouncer rare elusive, that creature. We love to love it. And I was like, oh yeah, and so I'm like going in on our autpha and I'm like, this is great. We're having a great time.

The bouncer had a special outfit on.

She was just looking great. She was beautiful, and so were we were chatting. I feel like it's the line behind me.

Okay, sorry, I just I think I feel like a bouncer would be wearing something a key key no no, no, no, would be wearing something in case.

It was very I mean it was very like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. There was a lot of like leather like dark colors. It wasn't like like a Diamon person berg wrap dress. Like. It was like.

I didn't think that, but like I didn't think it'd be an outfit that required comments.

Yeah, but it was. It was like it look great and uh she looked at me. So the night sort of erodes on in a debauchroous way, and she and I ended up chatting at the bar for a while and she goes, can I just ask you something? Are you white or white passing? It's like that is a crazy question.

Actually speaking passing or white presenting, white past Okay, those are different things.

Yeah, I know.

I was like, this is I think white presenting. You can't help it, right, that's of course.

Yeah.

White passing is when you were like skulking, right.

She was like, are you in here with all the white boys pretending to be and not like pretending to be white when you're not. It was very It was like so interesting we got into a whole identity politics conversation after that, but I thought it was and it reminded me of your cousin who reached out to you asking to talk to a transracial couple, asking Melissa to chat about their.

Relationship.

So she did reach back out to me, by the way, I forgot to touch base with you about it, and then she was just.

Like me for waiting for the viewers at home.

Everybody was type.

One in the comment section if you need to be constantly kept up to date on this, because I do.

So she got back to me and she was just like, I'm sorry, I meant cross cultural, not okay, Yeah, which is which is great, which is because I was very worried. I was worried that, like, not that it would be an issue if I was married to a white man, but that they would think that my.

Not white husband was white.

Yeah, And what is the conversation that's been happening behind my back?

RuPaul always says, it's none of my business what other people say about me.

I don't believe I had my back.

I try to live by that because people really do talk shit about me.

No, I want to know everybody who's to.

Know people on the Internet. I'm really limiting the comment like what comments I read, because sometimes it's.

Like, no, the Internet, I think the Internet is different. But I'm interested in what my family think.

Actually, that's the last people. I want to know what they think about where I'm scared.

No, I want to know, and I will take them on.

Let's take a brief recess, all right. So this is sidebar where I share all the weird things that happened to me in court this week. This is shout out to the batties, to the girlies, to the nurses of New York City, because nurses are fierce divas who not only kept everyone alive during the pandemic and then like I was talking about this with my friend this week and actually that and then we just literally stopped thanking them one day. We were like, oh.

Done, Well we stopped banging on and then it.

Was like, okay, back back to treating them like shit and underpaying them and like not honoring their union contracts, right, so not valuing them, yeah, of course, yeah yeah, referring to Yeah, So I met So I had this client who she was experiencing like extreme illness. I can't really say too much but she was very sick, and so I had to go get her stuff from the detention center because they transferred her to the hospital with the

We know what I say, what behind God's back?

But when something is fucking far away, where is that behind Gods?

Yes, that's literally yeah, behind God's huge back. We passed. We have sorry shout out to God type two in the common section if you love God. So we're so far behind Gods back that like the Macha shops of Brooklyn are like in f a speck on the horizon. So I get over stuff, I book it back to the hospital. She's not conscious, and I was hired by the family, Like I was not working with this individual.

I do so because what happens is that the United States has a shortage of nurses, right, so a lot of people from other countries are coming to the United States to be nurses, which is then resulting in a shortage of nurses in other countries.

Right.

So, like there is a shortage, shortage of nurses in the Philippines because so many Philippina nurses from here, there's a shortage of nurses in And I know Africa is a big place in the content.

I cannot remember the country, however, there.

Is you got a haul on this one. Yeah, okay, they have.

All gone over to Ireland.

Oh, because there's a nursing shortage.

There so and a lot of Irish they make.

More than yes, Oh my god, where are the Irish nurses.

Going the UK?

Stop? Oh my yeah? Three card shuffle.

Yes, and that's what's happened. This is that's what's happening. Yeah.

Wow. Anyway, if only we could like come together and just be like, hey, guys, for so many Yeah, I guess, yeah, let's let's like fair pay. Anyway. So I'm chatting with this nurse and she's like oh, like this is and we sort of get into the case a little bit and the ICE wouldn't unhandcuff my unconscious client. So I asked the nurse. I was like, hey, like would you kind of be willing to testify? And she's like jumped on it. She was like yeah, sure, and I'm going

Nurses also have empathy, yes, right, there's.

That caregivers right, yeah, they care about it was. It was just like, what a feel good moment, and you know, an onslaught of fucking bullshit that you have to deal with as an immigration lawyer. So it's just like one of these moments where I was like, we're going to band together, we're going to hold hands, get this one person on a handcuffed, and so I can't much else about like what's coming going on with her, But.

Now she's being properly treated. Good, good, good, I'm glad.

All right.

So this segment is called, uh what the.

Fox called under Earth?

It's my show. Oh no, this segment's called under Oath. We're going to be talking about art law. I'm really excited to talk about this actually because I have a little bit of lare here because I actually I feel like I'm coming out. But I was an art lawyer. That was like sort of part of my villain origin story. I was an art lawyer. Right out of law school. I got a job working for a huge gallery. I

Like where they were taken from.

Yeah, and this is like a huge I think a lot of institutions are sort of grappling with this like moment where it's like, Okay, we have this thing, we know it belongs to this other person. Like people's perception and how they think we should be behaving and treating

I was going to say, because the colonizer will insist on colonizing, right, yes, at every turn.

Yeah, And it was very much like steeped in this sort of notion of like, oh well, you know, these people could never possibly they don't understand what right. Yeah, this is like gross sort of like white imperialistic, frankly British perspective. I mean, the British Museum is like a very very infamous example of antiquity looting. So I wanted to talk about this case because I thought it was

Was clearly right that was a precedent.

This was the first time we've got a female curator. It's two thousand and five. I don't know there is something here there more. I'm like a little bit stuck on it where I'm like, yes, what she was doing was wrong. Everyone was doing it, and we chose this person to make an example of. Like that felt a little like, ooh, we've got there's something here. So since this case has happened, this was sort of like this beacon of how we're going to change the way we

Are they borrowing it from the country and not in the before times?

More now I think.

We're borrowing it. That's a great question because now I think there's like this sort of interesting trend that's happening with these institutions where they're like Ooh, this is like a bad pr moment and it's like totally not worth having this, Like mummy in our literally mummy in our museum. It doesn't look great for us, and people are kind of picking up on that, Yes they are, the wolk is coming for them, and so the woke left without saying goodbye.

Yeah.

So but they started started doing a lot of repatriation where they're returning objects to my eyes around New British Museum. Because I don't know how much of this they've actually done well.

I mean, I think just the it's not just the British Museum, it's the entire British system where they would go into countries and steal the jewelry.

Yeah. So there was sort of this like slate of international laws that came out that sort of governed this. But there have been like follow up lawsuits like Peru sued Yale University because they had objects for Machu Pichu that one of like the Yale professors sort of stole from Peru in the early twenty century.

Can like I guess obviously they can.

Peru sued Yale for this professor that I had taken these objects in the early part of the twenties, so it's not necessarily something that that may have happened in the past five or ten years.

Oh no, you can go exactly old. Yeah, So a Yale professor discovered Machu Pichu. Peruvians knew where it was, right, but white people did and so he discovered it in his mind. And so he said, oh, I discovered this place, this abandoned city filled with antiquities, and brought back some of those objects and they were sort of being housed and held at Yale. So I mean, we'd love to

No, So it's not like they were doing the right thing. They got sued right and had to give it back.

And this was actually right after the Getty, So this was in two thousand and six, so there was sort of this like wave of oh, like this wave of being like, oh shit, we might have kind of fucked this up. And there's like kind of press coming out around this. So there was also an interesting statute that the US enacted an act the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act because there were literal Native American remains

Would you like it?

The silence is, I don't know if I still don't know if I liked it because it was crazy. It's like it's like hanging out with like your manic friend, Like it's going to be weird and crazy but also like really fun, but also you're quickly going to get kind of tired. Okay, you know that manic, depressive friend of yours, So you know who you are, Becky.

Imagine there are a lot of also sort of really intense personalities.

Right, A lot of intense personalities, a lot of Nepo babies. There was a lot of like interesting, yeah, oh yeah, the art world is governed by Nepo babies. It is all like the wealthiest people, their kids want to work in art, they are interested in contemporary art. Galleries are kind of run. It's like it really is this insular world, big personalities, a lot of entitlement. So that got old really fast too, Okay, I can imagine. So a lot of my job was like unfucking things up. So I

Oh I remember you telling me this for the actually, so we.

Couldn't find it, and it was like months and it was my first day. Like the person well, first of all, when I interviewed, they were like, oh yes, great, Like I interviewed with like who my boss was going to be. And then I got a call from HR offering me the job, and they were like, just so you know, that person who interviewed with quit she is no longer here. She she quit her could she just no shoes on? Walked out the door half a cup of coffee on the table.

Know how I feel. That's my theory about it.

She was walking off into the sunset, never to be heard from again.

Crazy something puts them over the edge. Yeah, she's find them their shoes behind because they said fuck it, yeah.

Fuck this and just walked away. So she left this like, hey, we can find this bust of Julius Caesar's head. And this woman she was like, you know, well, I don't know. She was like, she was like, what are you doing? Four tense van uppaty. She was like this like older woman. It was clear she was. She was just like very much like a blue blood Emily Gilmour type, right, okay to like interview her. It was like a full interrogation in her office.

Had to interview Emily Gilmore.

Yes, and I had to sort of figure out where this was. We couldn't find it. It was really where it was very valuable. She was the one she was like, we don't know where this is, and so interview her. Anyway, she ends up retiring. Sure, as we're cleaning out her office, she was using it as a footrest. We found it on the floor under her desk.

How do you not know that you're using a bust of Julius Caesar rest like or or or or or or how.

Many how many busts of Juliuses are you using that you just mix them all up?

Or was it in a box? Because that I can see right, was it in a box? And she was using the box as a foot rest not recognizing.

No, it was like stuffed under her desk and she could I mean in her defense again, the defense lawyer and me really wants to defend more intense upity.

What is the defense?

The defense is like, you know, when was the last time she got on the floor and was kind of crawling around her office. I think it probably fell off her desk like backwards and then was on the floor and then she was like, my feet are sore, spin class this weekend, and was resting her feet on it for the next No, the past year.

I reject this, I really really I rejected it. It's ridiculous. So you need to tell me. Let's just say that's true. You knew you had a bust, a valuable bust.

On your desk. Oh sure, yeah, it fell off the desk.

I mean yeah, I think it went yeah and then what it rolled? Yeah? It could have been. Yeah, I think it probably rolled.

This is this idea.

No, I don't know, and this is not a you problem. And this is HORTENSEI van Uppitty's problem, right.

Technically, I mean Julius Caesar's problem too.

Well, he's it's not really his head.

Well, we're going to do a rapid fire of all the crazy things that happened to me at that job. At one point, there was this Warhol that we couldn't identify, Like we had like an extra Warhol, which is like never. It's like when you're putting together Ikia furniture and you have an extra screw. It's like something's wrong. So why do we have an extra Warhol? And so we had

That would piss me off, we were that would really make me so angry, especially because I can see myself looking at something that looks like bullshit to me and I'm like, and now you've got me running around in a jackass parade.

I mean, this is part of why I left. I mean, we've got I spent a lot of time in this. I was like, I could really be doing some good work with this law degree.

Instead of working maybe not even good work, but better work.

Yeah. Yeah. At one point we had we were moving everything around in this like shopping cart. Like there was a literal shopping cart, like from the stop and yeah, like from the stop and shop that we were moving art around the gallery with. Someone came and was like, I got to pick up my artwork and we're like, where is it? We're like trying to find it. We're moving stuff around in the shopping cart. The shopping cart was a work of art, and no one told us,

Well, yeah, you've been.

We've been pushing and that's the problem with modern art.

I was going to say that that's the problem with modern art, right, and I can't stand that shit.

Well, yeah, I mean, because.

I really am not pro shopping cart art. It has to stop somewhere like like, no, it's actually gotten out of hand. This is your expression is actually I do want to like shut down the art expressions.

I just don't.

I'm kind of anti artist at a certain point. Well, I mean I just become my father. I'm like, it's not a painting of a horse?

Or is it like a bowl of fruit?

Yea?

Is it a still?

Like?

What is it?

You know? A nice water cool?

It was my dad. Actually, wait, while we're on the subject of my dad. My dad touched a painting at MoMA and got escorted out of the building. When I was a kid. He walked. He was like, well, it looked like an interesting fabric, and he went and he touched it in an alarm went off.

I was going to say, it's it's their fault if you don't want people to touch things, put it behind looseight.

Yeah, I mean this is yeah, you don't want me to touch it. It's when I really became interested in the law, criminal law. My dad getting escorted out of MoMA, walked past the gift shop. I wonder who the artist was. I bet it's probably someone like really famous. They probably maybe they follow me on TikTok if you made that shopping.

Cart, Michael.

Sorry, I'm sorry. We did damage it a lot, but we fixed it.

There was this person had a reality show and they were a i'll say they were like a rap mogul, and they had a piece of art that was basically like chalk on a chalkboard and the house cleaning person cleaned it.

And that was bad. I have to be a good lawyer at this point, just for like a second. So technically, under like intellectual property law, if you are an artist and you are making these like temporal works like chalk or something like that, do some sort of like guide or manual that goes along with it. These sort of like artworks that can be like broken down and put back together, like swapped out, or they're an object that is like a cup ber thing, do like a menu

And I think that that's probably really valuable advice. I just think that probably somebody who is an artist is like Erica Badu said, you know, is an artist and they're sensitive about their shit and they don't want to take the time.

Yes to do so sure, yeah, of course, do you know what I mean?

But your point is, well, hire.

Someone to do or like chat gpt that shit, Like I don't, but you know what I mean, like if you've got like a little something. But I get it. And I've also been like that. My my agent was like, we really need you to write a book, and I was like, I don't have time or the energy to like you do, don't tell me what to do? Wait, I have that tattooed. What don't tell me what to do? You do? Yeah? Oh it's a bulldog and it says, don't tell me what to do.

That's right. I don't think i've ever read your body before.

We'll get a close up. Well, we'll throw a photo of my tattoo upon the screen. We could do a full tattoo tour one day.

Okay.

Other things that happened at the gallery. We had this

I don't know how I feel about the idea, because it sounds like this was like a major gallery, right, a major art institution that they were doing anything on a shoe string.

Like, No, it was it was all about that bottom line. Oh yeah, everything, but.

The whole thing is the art. So if you damage the art, I.

Know, well that was my poem. No Diva was going rogue.

I don't know anything about this, and I'm telling you that that sounds stupid, right, So it bothers me that there are people who this was their jump.

And they're just like, nope, I'm was gonna like take it off the wall.

She's like, I read Sarah Palin going rogue, and I really took that to heart. I gotta just going straight wild.

I was going to put this bust under my Death.

Julius Caesar's head. I hate everything, say that every episode more. Okay, well you're about to hate me because at one point my I got locked out of my computer and I was getting sworn into the bar like this was back in twenty fourteen, and I was the only person who had access to this specific system. So my boss called me on myself and like at the swearing in ceremony, but in the art world, they don't give a shit what you're doing. And I had to read my password to my laptop.

What was the ooh, my boss tell me what it was?

Rainbow Dolphin sixty nine. Oh, that's not that bad, but with a capital R. Yeah, it was technically in compliance with like what he wanted. So I didn't get fired for that, but I was like, I had to explain it to him. He was like, that's actually not bad. No, it could have been really.

Because I've had some bad passwork.

I don't want to get hacked again.

But no, no, I wouldn't say it.

But I'm just saying, like I've had some nasty, nasty shit, yes.

Or like real or like dark or.

Like if I've hated a boss.

Stop Melissa you're gathering your boss and your password every time you punch it in.

Fuck this motherfucker hashtag number seven. Michael used to be my boss.

We're not going to talk about that on the show or not. No, let's take a brief recess. Melissa has some cases actually this week that we wanted to talk about, so jump into it.

I was looking at the docket for this year's Supreme Court.

Where you just do you just like wake up in peruse.

No, I don't.

I don't but up a coffee on a Sunday morning.

You know what. I was thinking about it because of the government shutdown, and I was just like, I wonder.

What, I wonder what there?

Yeah, their up to anything, and you know a little rabbit hole. One thing led to another and I was like, oh, I didn't and I don't think I had realized that.

You can look at the docket for the year.

Yeah right, yeah. A lot of people like track it. I stepped on sun New soda my horse foot once.

Did you say sorry? You should have? It was a dick move.

We were okay. So I was twenty four.

Old enough to notice the excuse me?

And I was waiting tables huh and she came in, huh with a big group, and she was I mean, she was great. I knew who she was, and like there was a whole like debate among the waiters of like what we call her. And I wasn't a lawyer yet, and so I don't really know. I think it's Madam Justice is what you're supposed to call her.

I don't know.

Anyway, I stepped on her foot and she was like really cool about it. We both just kind of like looked at each other, like are we going to do a whole thing here, and she just like went and like just kind of ignored me. It's kind of great. She was super friendly.

Though, Well that's welcoming to hear. Did I know?

I did tell you this the time that I accidentally stepped on some guy's foot in the subway and he kicked me. What I said, excuse me, and he kicked you. Don't we go fuck myself and he kicked me.

But the best was he mentally ill.

He seemed fine to me. I kicked him back for me on all kidding aside, that was the part. That was the part when I tell you, let me tell.

You about Perry. Menopause will make you do some shit and but let me tell you so, I unlike you.

I am not a prolific TikToker, but I took it to TikTok.

What did what did the clock apps say? Yeah? What were they saying? Well?

There were I mean there were definitely two camps people who were like, you had a coming, bitch, what would it?

Kicks you two?

Because you stepped on his foot, you know, when you're walking.

And I sat on the back of his foot and sorry, but I said, oh, excuse me, and then he turned around, fuck you, you bitch, and he kicked me.

And I couldn't believe it.

I kicked him back, and this man behind us, this random man sort of came up behind me and like very sort of kindly ushered me out of the way and was like, don't fight with him.

He's crazy.

And I was like, he kicked me, and I'm telling you, before perimenopause, I would have let it go.

But if I, if I had a I might have cut him.

Melissa auditioning for The Bend. It like Beckham sequels.

Out of people even tell you and the thing is just like I think both of our kicks were like weak, like.

It wasn't like not even, it wasn't like and it wasn't just like yeah, I kicked the world. It was like this week, but I was absolutely on fire in my soul, in my mind now.

In my mind, you did something accidental that did not warrant physical intentional violence. The Men's Raya was present for that man.

Well, I think I just I genuinely believe, and I was saying, this is somebody the other day. I just think that post pandemic, we are not okay, Like just generally the world is not okay.

We're not okay.

When I mean someone post pandemic who hasn't gone to therapy, like I went to so much therapy after the because I just couldn't. I literally didn't know how to talk to people. I like forgot, I forgot how to like relate to people, which I do you look in? Do you look both? Like? It was like how do I do this again? Like it really took me a minute. It was clunky, especially with like client based work, like

I actually, I actually wasn't. I stopped right before. I stopped right before.

And you're still wondering why you kicked someone?

Could he kicked me first? It's not like I kicked him. He kicked me. I kicked him back. Fuck him, fun, sir, get out of here.

Okay, you have it. Melissa brought a case this week that she wants to talk about the Supreme Court.

So I was looking at the Supreme Court docket and they are bringing this case and the case is called Chiles versus Salazar. Oh yeah, and it is about Colorado law that is banning conversion therapy. So if you don't know what conversion therapy is, it is actually illegal in twenty five states, which means that it's not illegal in the other twenty five states.

I had a friend who went to a conversion therapy really. Oh yeah, he's still fucked.

Up, right.

Yeah.

People who go through it it.

Really because, especially like at this time in your life when you're trying to figure your shit out and then someone is like forcing you to like not do that. It really does. Oh, I can imagine mess with these psychologically.

Jumping down who you are, right, Yeah, And.

Like it's a lot of some of it's like negative enforcement. I mean, it's really scary shit.

And I also think.

The idea that usually if you are a young person who's going into conversion therapy, your parents have sent you to that, right, Yeah, definitely to imagine what that must feel like as somebody who's sort of trying to come into themselves and the people who should be the most loving, the most supportive are telling you that there's something wrong with you, right, and.

That you need to fix it.

And in the fixing, it's almost like a breakdown.

Yes. Also it's also like the messaging that you're getting from a parent is that I don't love you the way you are, right, You've got a change in order to be acceptable to me. That is like the most

You are permitted when you really needed it to be yourself exactly right. And now you're going your gone through college and now you're in law school.

You are really yourself.

And you are trying to connect with people hopefully who are also their authentic self.

And you're also able to sort of like find parts about yourself that aren't sexuality based, like if you like, for me, it was like got through it, figured it out. Now I can explore like the other things I'm interested in, like what motivates me as a person, Like why hobbies am I interested in? Like how do I sort of want to enter this world? And I was able to sort of do that. I think a lot of queer people who don't have that experience then are still figuring it out now right.

Right now, these are sort of adults in their thirties trying to figure themselves out.

Still.

Yes, but this band, they're banning it in Colorado and it's made its way up to the Supreme Court. In the stream Court is going to decide if they're going to hear it.

They are going to be there.

They have decided, yeah, they are.

Going to hear it. And so the therapist who's bringing the case, her name is Kaylie Chilis. I think that's how you say it. She's arguing that the Colorado Band infringes on her First Amendment right to free speech because it is limiting what she can say to her clients. So this is a therapist whose therapy practice is faith based on Jesus.

That makes me so nervous.

Well yeah, and she, according to what I read, she's sort of really bristling at the idea that this is conversion therapy. She's saying that, you know, she wants to be able to speak to her clients about who they are and what God wants them to be.

No, get fucked, God wants her kid to be gay as hell. I'm sorry, go fuck yourself. Like that's a that's like, that's a guy to the headline for me, dog like I don't know, man Like, oh, like God is telling me what to how about like the governing ethics for psychology and psychiatry.

But again, what.

She's saying is that so and she's also saying that these are people who were coming to her on their own, okay, not necessarily being brought forcibly to them by their parents. But it still makes me really anxious, you know. After the election. Actually I recorded it but didn't post it because I started crying in the middle of it.

But one of the things that.

I was really really worried about is I was worried about trans people while was going to happen to them. You know, I think being your authentic self is such an important part of who I am. I'm just you know, and it takes everybody some time to figure that out.

But I can't imagine what it would feel like if you felt like the world around you resented you for simply being who you were, right, And it made me worried about both people sort of moving along in their lives and being healthy and choosing to stay with us, right, because that is something else that I'm really worried about.

So the suicide rates in the trans community are significantly higher.

They are higher, and we can sort of almost understand why that is, right, sure, feel like the entire world is against you, then what is there to live for? And I feel like, you know, I hate to sort of be this person, but like, please.

Don't do that.

You are loved, you are wanted, you are respected, you are valued, you know, And I hope that it trans folks are getting that message in spite of what is happening.

Yeah, we've talked about this, just like the way in which like the queer community is taking care of itself, Like the way that like we're kind of like clinging closer to each other, and like, I don't know, if you are not trans and supportive, like and you know someone who is, like, you don't have to be like hey, holding space for you trans person. I know a lot's

Yes, so do I And I actually feel it when I don't, you do like guilty.

I'm like I really should have talked to that person, and then they get.

Like a little I think the other that somebody could do. I know that I do this if there are people around me who are making like commentary that I find offensive and they think that it, well, I think you can do that if you choose be careful.

I don't. Don't, don't do that actually, but listen.

But I also think what I love to do is make people feel uncomfortable.

Oh god, Melissa is a villain. It is so satisfying to watch you do this. It actually is like a litigation strategy. And I don't know who taught at you, where you found it from, discovered it yourself to you before?

Why? Okay, person, I have the blood of revolutionaries. Oh yeah, at all times.

No, and that is actually in your bio and it's on your business card.

Yeah.

But I do think that sometimes by making people who are offensive feel uncomfortable.

Right, that's the way. Let's do an example, So.

Say say something that you think that we know is offensive.

I think you got that. I think is funny. Oh I don't know if I can do that, but like I know the one that you've talked, right.

The what I always do is if somebody says something I can they think is funny. Yeah right, yeah, I will inevitably say.

I don't get it.

Oh, I don't understand, and then they'll say it again and I'm just like, wait, am I missing something?

What part of that? Oh?

I'm sorry, explain it to me. And then Eventually they're just like, oh.

She's taking me to task without actually being.

Verify right, there's nothing worse than telling a joke and having to explain the joke, and then any joke, even if it's not a right, to have to have someone a not understand. So now there's crickets right then to have to be like, oh, let me answer a quick Q and A about that joke I told you no one laughed at. And now I'm realizing that I said something offensive, offensive.

Not funny, yeah, but not clever.

Yeah.

And it's not something that I do to just random people. But when people say things in front of me that I find offensive that I know are could be potentially hurtful for somebody else.

I make them explain it to me.

Explain it to me slow, and then and it explain it to me slow because and then you know, and they usually sort of either like say, forget it or they fact pedal, Wait, why is that funny?

See?

So it's true.

No, it's great and you and you and you have to look at them right in the eye and be really uncomfortable about it, like right, get in their face, and you don't. And again, not everybody is comfortable telling somebody to go fuck themselves, right.

Yeah, yeah for sure. So on mind like those of us who are like, let's do it, you do it.

And I think you do what you feel comfortable with. I am comfortable and making people feel uncomfortable. I'm very comfortable.

I can live in the awkward silence where you know someone's getting called out on something, or if someone asks me something and I really need them to hear their own question, like getting comfortable with that like awkward minute of like let.

Me ask you a question, okay, in an uncomfortable situation, like let's say you are in a group meeting with a lot of people, okay, and then there's somebody this is completely not what we're talking about, but I'm just now that you mentioned that, and there is that uncomfortable moment. Do you just live in the moment or do you, like, do you let the moment play out or do you sort of do something like some people will like move things around, some people will like cough, yeah.

Do you want to know what I do?

And do you know I find stillness like I'm just like you just wait. I think there's power and stillness. I think we're all moving around all, oh.

I don't know why I do this, but I fake sneeze.

And I don't know.

And I think because I think because if I if I allergic, if I sneeze someone at someone's going to say bless you, and.

I do, and now I've given away my thing.

But that's what because sometimes if the uncomfortable thing has nothing to do with me, but I'm here, I.

Get very no.

Yeah, yeah, but.

If I it's different atrophy, I do, and I don't know.

When I started doing it.

My stop, I have a high bless you can't know that.

That's a really good series.

This is method actor Jared Letto the studio.

That's what I do. I have a friend who just sort of she kind of does. But yeah, that's what I do. I fake me because I'm so uncomfortable and I've got to go.

Someone's going to say God, bless you, and it's going to like resett out of here.

My response is fighter flight. I'm like getting out out of the studio.

So yeah, so anyway, back to this game, back to this case, back to Trance writes on the line, anyway, I'm super interested to see.

Yes, I'm too.

I'm super worried about trans folks, and.

As a lawyer, I have to jump in and just sort of like compare like this to the gay Cake Baker lawsuit at the Supreme Court. So so there there will be like an interesting like call and response between those two decisions, right between this decision and that decision. Right, But speaking of like ally ship and like how you kind of relate, like we talked about like how to like relate and you know sort of like handle a phobe, right, a transphobe, a racist person at home? But whatever it

No no, no, no, no, no no, no, Emma Watson.

I'm getting I'm getting corrected. Any any Harry Potter reference there? Okay, there are like ten people I send memes to. The only Harry Potter memes I send to people are to Melissa. She's the only person I said Potter race too, and she loves I mean, and you like every one of them. I love them too because I get it. If I'm hungover, it's Chinese food and Harry Potter movies on the sofa all day. That is my Sunday.

As much as I have enjoyed the movies.

My my real thing is the books.

And just really quickly about my foray into Harry Potter.

I came to it late.

I was a grown ass adult when it first came out, and I thought it was stupid. I was like the idea that me, as a grown woman, I'm going to read a book about a boy wizard to get the fuck out of here. But I bought the scholastic like set of like the first four books from my cousins.

I have a lot of cousins for my cousins, and the Thirst.

Books look very much like for a kid like. The book covers are very.

Much, yes, very much, very much.

And I bought it for him and I don't remember why, but I ended up not giving it to him for his births and I threw it in the backseat of my car where it rolled around for months.

Sure, she's flying down the road. I've been in the car with her on the brain. The Brakouse books are banged up.

And I had taken my mother someplace and I ended up having to wait for her longer than we had thought.

And this is before she was rubbernecking out an accident.

Probably, and I pulled out the first book and instantly was like I was like, oh my god, this is great.

You're like, oh shit, who's that g Why are the letters exploding out of that? Yeah?

Yes, love it anyway.

So and then I even turned into the person who would go to the midnight Oh.

I did that. My friends and I left the club. I was nineteen. We left the club and we went to the midnight showing Turn No.

No, no, no, no, not the midnight showing.

Oh of the book.

Oh.

We went to the movies and we were like, you know, hooting and hollering in the back. You went to the midnight like Barnes and Noble release party. I would did like Fergie perform. I don't know, And I just felt so like.

It would just be me, all these like parents and like me just like standing there. I really do have a tremendous amount of affection for these books for some reason too, And it has been I can't even begin to tell you how deeply and profoundly disappointing it has been for me to realize that in spite of her talents, because she is talented, right like JK. Rowling has created this amazing world of books. She's also read other books that are also good. Yes, yeah, but to realize.

That she's a really Jesus bitch, like she's this horrible person. It's it is really really disappointing.

Kind of just say. My favorite meme is on Twitter, she was saying something insanely transphobic. Yeah, and someone said put her back her like thumbnail photo was it was clearly there was like black mold growing up the wall. And someone wrote, like the black mold is like destroying her brain. And then the next photo was she changed her profile photos she saw the tweet and changed her photo to to something else without black mold in this in the background.

Yes, I don't understand the loathing that she has or that anybody has. Frankly, for the trans community, the transc community is minuscule. It's tiny.

And also, like I got to say, like some of the coolest people I know, like there are a plenty of like jokes of like you know, punching down about like them not having a sense of humor or like

So, speaking of being canceled, so Emma Watson went on some podcasts and she was talking about, you know, her life after Harry Potter and how she sort of stopped acting for a while and she's thinking about coming back, and then of course the JK Rowling thing came up, and then she said that she's deciding that she's going to love JK Rowling in spite of her stance on trans folks, because she's choosing to remember the JK Rolling

Which I probably had like amazing experiences with her when she was a kid, right.

Absolutely, And you know, saying that you know somebody, she's like, I am choosing to believe that there is something that she just does not understand. I don't want to believe that she's a bad person. I don't want to believe that this person that I loved is really sort of inherently evil.

This feels like how people kind of like relate to a dead relative or parent or something like that. Like it's very much like I'm going to choose to remember like the positive things, and it's also like kind of like a very healthy way to sort of deal with Yeah, absolutely, yes, Yeah, Like how do I just like take this wonderful experience I have with this person who's now doing something that I completely disagree with, and like honor and cherish what I remember of that and not have it be colored

I thought so, and it came across and I know she's an actress, but it came across to me as very sincere.

Yeah, And she was.

Just like, yes, I think that she's wrong. I think that maybe there's something that she doesn't understand. I think that she could be taught. Right basically what she was saying.

This person has the capacity right, And she.

Was just like, I am not going to cancel her. I am going to hold space for her, and I'm going to be here if she were to choose to be educated.

I'm happy to do.

What happened. I actually didn't.

Follow this tweets ex'es or whatever it is rips Emma Watson a moment asshole like when I and just full vitriol.

It was disgusting. Wow, And basically was like what she thinks, what JK Rolling thinks is happening is that now it.

Is no longer sort of attractive to be the person who hates JK rolling right, so that now Emma is changing her stance to sort of gentle her stance on what she had said about her before, because apparently Emma Watson, dan Ol Radcliffe and Rupert had all come out and been like sort of against what she had said about

It was so fucking.

Gross, absolutely just so reprehensible, Like would it not be better to be like, you know what, Emma, I disagree with you.

I'm gonna keep my stance.

Yeah, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna I'm gonna keep being.

This turf right. I'm gonna keep on doing this. But I appreciate the love that you have for me.

I love you too, even if to say let's agree to do had as well.

Yes, gonna go back to the right.

I'm gonna go back to being basically unbreathed, the more together, right I was. Again, I'm just constantly disappointed by her, really, and it kind of bothers.

Me to have like the level of imagination where you can write seven books about, you know, something that really was like very fascinating and interesting and she really built a world, but not be able to imagine the gender spectrum. It is like crazy to me to not be able to be like, oh, you know what, maybe someone is not necessarily a binary like what it was just crazy? That is whack.

Yeah, No, it really really is. Anyway, I just thought those two things kind of went together.

I really I hate I hate feeling so disappointed in people.

It's like when I found out a client's guilty, I'm like, you fucking lie, or if I got uprising. No, I mean it's a lot of the times, like I represent guilty people like and it's just like a matter of we're figuring out a technicality or making sure the police did their job right right. But a lot of the times it's like I got to figure out, like they

But the other thing is, I know you don't love being lied to, but also even guilty people deserve representation. Oh right, So yeah, I feel like really strongly, like I know, don't want to ever give JK Rolling another dollar, you know.

What I mean? Like I know, And the thing is is that what I hate it.

It was fantastic Beast movies. Though if you take an edible they're really good. They're not I mean, if you take a couple, if you take a dumpy not ei no, a little gummy and a fantastic beast, that is a that is a good night?

Is it a good night?

Yeah, it's a good night, good time all right? This is Tales from the DMS. I'm going to be answering all your burning legal questions that you send me on the internet. You DM them to me, you call in, you leave us voicemails. If you go to my lank tree, you can leave us a voicemail. We will play it on the show and I'll answer your legal question. But keep the information private if you don't want us saying who you are and also like, don't record a voicemail

And also everybody, I want you to remember that one Michael is a lawyer.

He's not your lawyer.

So this is just for informational purposes, entertainment purposes.

Just remember that.

All right, this question, let's let's play it.

What happens if you're riding in a self driving car and it gets into a crash or if a police officer pulls over a self driving car. What's the legality of that?

Okay, So the interesting thing about self driving cars is that there's actually a scale based off states about autonomy. So there's like it's like a scale of zero through five of how autonomous is the vehicle, which I think is like so crazy that like someone had to come up with this of like, okay, it's just the one that kind of keeps you in the lane, and someone else was like, all right, it's like a completely self

Now right in San Francisco.

Yeah, yeah, So basically what happen and there's if it's fully autonomous. There's no one in the front seat that you can actually sue the manufacturer if there was some sort of like iper product liability. Okay, so that's usually what happens if there is an accident like that. There have been some cases where that's happened. But if you are in the driver's seat and there is like an autonomous feature that you're using and you get in an accident, you can be held liable.

Yes, I mean I feel like that.

Sorry, I was. I was surprised that there was I was when I learned about it. I was surprised that there was like a literal scale of like autonomous okay features. I thought that was cool. I'm like such a loser.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I mean, but I feel like if you are behind the wheel of the car, if you're using the adaptive cruise control or something, you're still behind the wheel of a car, you are responsible.

I guess I do love this because it's like the one instance in society where we are like passing the liability off on companies not the individual. Like that is actually kind of fierce boots, Like, I do love to see a company be held accountable rather like, yeah, it was actually kind of iconic.

Diva.

I have so many questions, you guys are going to make him insufferable.

I want to know how enforcible NDAs are. I have signed several in my life, especially with people who have been in a position of wealth and power.

So you feel there's some war here because.

You're getting a payout or compensation for whatever activity.

Well work you're doing.

Is that stormy? You know what?

I hate? It took me a second to realize that, you know.

So I'll just have it in the world that like literally a porn star signing an NDA, just the president.

I'm really interested to what's been going on in this person's life, Like, legitimately, I know something going.

On, having multiple dass. Okay, so this this is like kind of a hard question to answer, but I'm going to do my best.

Okay.

It kind of depends on what the hell you signed. Like some NDAs, there are contracts, So if it's a royally weird, fucked up contract that has all sorts of issues in it, it's not enforceable. So you really need a lawyer to look at what you signed, because like if you signed it under duress or there's like a basic contract law has been violated in this document that you signed. It's not enforceable and you can't be held to the terms therein.

Let me ask you a question, though, what can you do if you've already signed it.

If you've already signed it, you can bring it to a lawyer and show it to them. They really need to read it.

Okay, So but can they get you out of it if you've already signed it.

Yeah, if there's if there's some sort of critical flaw to a contract, you can get out of it. So for example, like you were forced to sign it, there was no I'm a criminal lawyer, so contract was kind of foreign to me. But if you weren't given anything in consideration for your silence, so there was no payment

What happens if you break an.

NDIA Generally the damages are enumerated in the contract, and that's something that would need to be enumerated for it to be enforceable or that would be a sticking point. The thing about NDAs, though, that I do want to call out Stormy if you're listening.

Is that I think she's okay.

She's okay. Yeah. NDAs are often it's like the threat of litigation is what keeps people silent. It's not like if you say something instantly, there's like a carrier pigeon who like swoops in with a lawsuit. Like someone does have to be like, oh, you violated that you broke that law, you broke that NDA, and here you are

If somebody signs an MDA and the person dies the one that you're signing it for. Let's say you make me sign an NDA and then you die it something about something and then I, I were.

The drafting layer, I want to make sure that there was some sort of clause about what happens. Yeah, because I mean.

That's interesting question.

Yeah, transfer, Yeah, Okay, Well that's everything we have today. On Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot, Melissa Melbrandt. I'll see you in court. This has been an exactly right production recorded at iHeart Studios, Posted by me, Michael Foot.

Me Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is CJ. Ferroni.

This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Cootner.

Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue and Manessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono.

Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark and Danielle Kramer.

You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot and.

I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Albranch.

Got legal questions, reach out at brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia dot com. Listen to brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course we're a podcast with video. Search for brief Recess on YouTube