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TATO five here fifty five KRC, the Talk Station. It's been a very happy Friday to you. Good to have in studio detective retired detective Jim Grindle, who's written a book comic Side Investigation in the interview, Jim, good to have you in studio and bible to see you face to face and talk with you. And let me start by thanking you for your storied career in law enforcement.
Well, I definitely appreciate that. Thank you for having me.
Happy to do it man, And I told you before when the mix came on. It's been my experience in my coming up on sixty years that if you're sitting across the table with a retired police officer or an active police officer and enjoying a beer, they're the best people to talk with because they have the most outlangious and crazy stories, real things that happened that never happened anybody else because of, you know, being involved with the
criminal element. It's just it's crazy what you have to deal with over the years, and we have a lot of fun with the stories, for sure. Oh I bet now you are not really retired right now, as I understand.
No, Actually, my career started back in nineteen seventy nine. Actively retired in twenty thirteen, following twenty one years in investigations. The spray Dew Police Department has a program which allows officers to come back and work in an auxiliary position. We don't do any active enforcement, but we do a lot of the paper pushing and things like that.
Well, fair enough, but you got it assaulted by a fourteen year old the other day.
Well, he was autistic, and is this in the line of duty?
This happened?
This was an off duty detail, okay. And he was a regular at the church that we go to and he was just having an episode.
I understand. Look, you were an out serving award or something like that.
No, no, no, okay. And it wasn't intentional on his part. I don't believe either.
All right, Well, that's good. Well, let's pivot over to the homicide investigation. The interview. Explain to my listeners what this book consists of. Jim.
Well, the book starts, well, basically, the reason for the book was is during the interview, the individual portrayed a lot of body language that was beyond just your normal interviews. Pretty much displayed everything that you can actually display during an interview. And I always thought, man, i'd be great for a book.
So, so body language is indicating a guilt, right, Well.
It's basically a nonverbal communication, you know, through body posturing, facial expressions, movements, things of that nature. And you know that it's a lot about signs of deception or that they're not being truthful.
And during the interview, So I imagine a young detective or someone in law enforcement who's going to be interviewing suspects could learn a lot from this, Well, I would hope. So I asks maybe one of the points you of your or put his book together.
Well, the book's got a lot of clips in there showing when I talk about the different kind of language that he's portraying. It's there in the book, and there's also a two hour interview and it's entirety that could be watched as well.
All right, how how many years experience did you have at the time you interviewed this suspect.
Maybe as a police officer about thirteen years, fourteen years.
Because as I understand it, and here you can be correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, there's a real skill in an art form to getting information out of witnesses.
I would agree with that. Basically, you pretty much got to sit down as if we know each other, and once they get a little trust in you, they're more apt to talk to you and tell you things that you need to know.
All right, So being a bad cops not a good idea under these circumstances.
It works for the good cops.
It works for the good cops. Now, But is this a learned skill? Like do you sit in a class, a cadet training class or some other follow up, you know, a continuing police education class to learn what you needed to do and how you need to conduct yourself the best interview witnesses and get information out of them.
There are classes. I tell a lot of people that are in this kind of job to watch everybody's interviews and learn what you like about their approach, what works for them, and then kind of develop that into your own. The big thing with interviews you got to have a lot of patience. You got to you know, get a report with the individuals, And I feel that once people feel trusted with you, they people want to brag about themselves,
So it's not hard to get a confession. Once you get that response, you know through them.
Hey, is there have you learned over the years? I mean, is there certain certain psychological profile that kind of fits people who would commit very dangerous acts? I mean there is no one size fits all? Or do they sort of fall into a pattern? If I if I can call it that, I.
Don't know if I agree with that. I mean I've sat down with people who you think absolutely could not have done something like this and find out they did. My philosophy is always, you know, I assume everybody's guilty until I prove am innocent. So that way I'm not lazy about what I do.
Fair enough, Now, how much advanced work do you have to do before you're interviewing someone? Evidence gathering, you know, by the crime scene information photographs? Do you use all that incorporated in your interview or you just kind of hit the ground running with it.
Well, in this case here, I kind of spent about two days to getting prepared because there was a lot of paperwork involved in it. And when I do the interview that that stuff is on my table. I use
a lot of that as props. There's actually there's times where I'll take out photographs of the victim or of things that are uncomfortable source be sure, and I will leave them out there and during the interview just kind of watch his response and how he reacts to the photographs and stuff that are sitting in front of him.
All right, let's turn specifically to the subject matter of the interview in your book, off side Investigation the interview, What was he what was he suspected of when you were interviewing.
Well, there was a robbery that occurred involving three Hispanic males in an apartment complex there in Springdale. After that robbery occurred and the fleeing of that vehicle, an individual shot. He's actually one of the people that was, you know, involved in the actual robbery. Right, So basically it's an accidental shooting. Bad guy in Ohio. Though that would only basically be, you know, an accidental accident shooting. But the fact they're leaving a homicide or a robbery, I should say, uh,
it would make a felony. And therefore, you know, a homicide.
And anybody involved in the crime where the homicide happens, is himself or herself also going to be charged with that homicide?
That's correct, And the purpose of the interview was one to establish they were involved in the actual robbery and who actually fired the round that killed Lamore.
And I presume at the outset of the interview the guy denied even being there.
This was a two hour, tenmidte interview, and it wasn't until about an hour and a half in to it that we actually got something out of him that put him there.
Okay, well, what was your first indication that you had the right guy?
What do he sat down down? Well, the reason I say that is the work had already been done. The search works were done. We had text messaging, and we had phone records, so when we sat down, we pretty much knew everything we were going to be asking him.
Then, Okay, well, when confronted with hard evidence like well, here's your cell phone and here's the text information back and forth, and this is why it's relevant to this particular case, how does someone just deny that? All right? I presume it's some measure of the guy denied it.
No, he denied, strong, strong denials with his non involvement of it. But and actually it's kind of interesting that the photograph is sitting in front of him. He actually turns around and actually points out and says she did it, and starts actually pointing on the photograph.
I said, that's rather damning under the circumstances that he can't say you weren't there and then identified someone who was involved with it. If you weren't there, it don't work very well. It doesn't work well. So what's a guy's reaction like that when he pointed out to him? He's denied it, denied it, and then he points to the photograph, said she did it. I mean, did you see Well, wait a second, you said you weren't there. How is it you know she did it?
Well, the other problem was who was driving the car, who actually fired around? So at this point he claims now that he's the driver of the car and had nothing to do with actually firing around.
That killed him. But truly that doesn't really matter under the circumstances because again he was involved in the crime. That's correct, all right, Well, what is one of the more interesting sort of developments during this interview that you knew you had the right guy, I guess because I'm just kind of wondering how this all unfolds.
Well, when he first sits down and everything, you know, the two of them were best friends. They grew up in school together at Princeton. The person was actually killed was an up and coming football sensation. They thought he'd make it actually to the NFL, and he played off of the fact that they were great, you know, great friends and everything. And when the shooting took place. Lamar didn't actually pass the night of the shooting. It was
a couple of days thereafter. And this individual would actually stay with the family, you know, as a friend and everything else, and he had no idea that he was actually part of the homicide while he was living with an asshold.
All right, well, we'll bring Jim Grendel back again, storied law enforcement crever with the Springdale Police Department. He's been involved in a lot of different cases, some fascinating ones to me. We can touch base on a few more of those and talk about his career in law enforcement. God bless those in law enforcement. Jim Grinnell will continue. It's eighty fifteen right now, fifty five K see the talk station. Be right back fifty five car the talk
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Viaduct into downtown sapbound two seventy five. Break lights between the Lawrence Burn ramp and the Carroll Cropper Bridge Chuck Ingram on fifty five krc DE talk station.
Eight eighteen Here fifty five KRCD talk station. Jim Grindle retired from the Springdal Police Department and he did a whole bunch of years as a police officer but also an investigator. I'm talking about one of the cases he did in interview on and ultimately the suspect was incarcerated homicide investigation. In the interview, it's a very interesting work of you know, how you get information out of a guy who's an absolute, outright denial and lying to you
through his teeth. I thought it was a rather funny exchange, Jim, you're He says, I wasn't there, I wasn't in the car. I wasn't in the car. And you say, wait a second, I got your phone records. Man, we know you were there. And he denied even knowing the woman that was involved in the crime, although he had like twenty two different phone calls to her. I mean, this guy was just an exercise of futility of his in his denials.
Well, he only claimed to know her for a short period of time. But because of those records, we know that the actual robbery has been playing like four days in prior to that, and that they'd actually known each other for over a week.
Wow, how did the person get shot because it was an accidental shooting?
He set Well, Well, one of them was driving the car. And I really don't want to throw the actual shooter out yet here because it's in the book and I think it'd be interesting for people to kind of it's a good type thing. Sure, But in the getaway leaving the crime scene of the robbery, he shot. The individual gets shot is in the front seat of the car.
It was an accident.
The shot came from the back seat. So you ever see pulp fiction? I did not see that.
Oh well, there's a scene in pulp fiction the one of the gangsters in the front of the car and he's got his forty five automatic, but he has his finger on the trigger and he's talking to a kid that's in the back seat asking him a question, and the gun goes off and it blows the kid's head off. As a total accident, but that sounds analogous to what happens.
That's pretty much what happened.
Okay, keep your finger off the trigger unless you are intending to shoot the firearm. A little lesson there. So it's called the Homicide Investigation. The interview, real fascinating stuff with Jim. Jim, I understand you have another book in the works. What's that one about?
That's actually a homicide from nineteen ninety nine Walker, It's gonna be the Walker Files. It's the sixty seven year old man that was beaten to death in his home. We know that the people response before the death or out of the Indianapolis, Indiana area, two people were actually apprehended for using the credit cards after about a thirty day surveillance of some gas stations, and then from there some other suspects were they're really strong, strong, you know,
people of Ventuest. Because of some of the things that occurred in Indianapolis and also here in Cincinnati, we could put them in the locations here.
All right, So another sort of who'd done it? And a crime book in the works. We're here from Jim on that one. After it's out and done, make sure you give me a copy of it.
Absolutely.
Let me just get your comments and thoughts about we. I'm a huge supporter of law enforcement. You know that we've already talked about it, and I think you were aware from listening to the show. My sister retired from the CINCINNT Police Department after twenty five years of career law enforcement. Perception of what's going on now, we have a difficult time recruiting police officers. Now, the defund the police, the police are a bunch of racists. You know that
that kind of narrative has permeated through the society. Are since a police departments down one hundred and fifty officers. They're losing more and more every day. I know, they got some classes lined up and they're trying to do it some loatderal hires. What's your take on law enforcement
right now? You know, for someone out there that maybe considered for a career, and do you think things have kind of, you know, run off the rails as we exist in a society here relative to our perceptional law enforcement.
Well, from when I started in nineteen eighty, things have come a long way. And I say that not in a good way. When you got law enforcement back then, it was a brotherhood. It was something you really wanted to do. Now it's a job for just money. I mean, people come and get to work. You know, I see people turning down details pay fifty five sixty dollars an hour. There's not a strong brotherhood like there used to be.
And it's like you said that with the courts and what they're doing now with the people that are you know, I think what they do is they protect mostly the bad people and the people that are good people. It just it's just don't work for them.
Well, in your motivation to go into law enforcement, I suppose comes out of your sense of community. You want to help the community. You want to you know, get the bad guys and see the justices served well.
With everything said like that, here I am forty four years later and I still enjoy it like it was the day one for me.
Yeah, well, one sense of community doesn't disappear with age. I mean, you can become jaded and cynical, but it's the reason you entered into law enforcement. And it's kind of a shame that it's it's it's it's it's gotten the way it has. And you're right, I said, the the the core to the justice system, the key, you know, leg on the stool of the justice system is holding people accountable and and and and you know, punishing them for their crimes. It acts as a deterrent so that
others do not do it. He's that person's held out as an example. Look, what's going to happen to you if you do the same damn thing, So you're not inclined to do it. I wouldn't want to go to jail, for God's sake. It's enough of a deterurn for me just keep my nose clean my entire life. But if you take that away, things run amuck.
Well, And with that said, I mean I've worked with a lot of great people. My career wouldn't be like it is without the people I worked side by side with. And I mean there's a lot of good people out there, and then a lot of them have the same feelings I do that this is a great career. I still recommend it to people. Good for you, I'm glad so. And that's what you put into it. I mean, if you go into it with a you know, where you get along with people, you like to work with people, it'll work for.
You, right, And no one's going to tell meybody, it's an easy job, that's for sure, but it can be very rewarding.
It is.
Yeah, Well, Jim, it's been a real pleasure having you in the studio talking. Joe's gonna put your book up on my blog page forty five krsy dot com. Do you look you publish this yourself or do you have luckily published because you didn't go to Chili Dog Press? Did you?
I did not, now that you. That's one I don't remember. I know exactly what it is. I just can't say the name of it now.
That's all right.
It's a local right there off of Fairfax.
Joe put it on the blog page if you five carecy dot com. I noted one more thing I gotta ask you before we part company today, and I wish you best of the weekend. The Russia White Plastic investigations one of the high profile cases you mentioned in the liner notes on the back of the book. Real quick, what's that all about?
Well, well, at what they were doing is they were coming in and this was going all over the country. But they were taking you know, credit cards. Are they got the little strip on the backside of them. What they were doing is they were they were encoding them with you know stuff that they stole information off other cards. Then they would go to ATM machines and start withdrawing money.
And they were doing this all over the country, and they were out of Turkey and some people out of Russia, and Secrett Service did the majority of that, but it started a lot. Actually in Springdale, they went to a what was that a travel They were taking the cards and putting nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine dollars on them, and that started the investigation with us.
Well, Iuess, you also work with the FBI, got secret service there, and you're involved in a multitude of cases over your entire career. Jim, it's been a real pleasure talking with you. Thanks for putting it down on paper and letting us enjoy and learn from your experience as a law enforcement officer.
Well, I appreciate you for having me.
It's been a real pleasure. Have a wonderful weekend, sir. Eight twenty six. Right now, local stories coming up. Alternatively, Jo's got the phone lines open. You can call. Maybe there's something you want to talk about. Five one, three, seven, four nine, fifty five hundred, eight hundred and eighty two to three talk pound five fifty on AT and T phones. I'll be right back.
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