¶ Rising Cost of Running, Overcoming Barriers
Do you think and I was just listening to the Ronner's World podcast , they were saying that do you think people are being running's becoming a bit too expensive Because now you can buy really expensive ?
You can buy Kipchogi's running shoes which are like really expensive , or the specific running shoes which has been made by Adidas , which only lasts for 50 miles but they're tremendously light , or something like that . Do you think over the years , or maybe since you've done your research , has that been a factor ?
I definitely think running has become more expensive since I started looking at beginner runners because when I was doing my second , my third study , which was on podcasts , I had some really simple advice for my participants about find a comfortable running bra , find a pair of shoes which are comfortable .
Then I have to be that expensive and at the time you could buy an okay pair of running shoes for 30 or 40 pounds , and I'm not sure that's the case now . They might be 70 or 80 . You don't need to spend 200 pounds on a pair of running shoes that's for sure , and you still don't really need to spend that much money .
You can go to the cattle on and get yourself out for not that much money . I think it's important to be comfortable . I did have a bunch of participants who complained bitterly that their bras were not supportive enough and the trousers were falling down while they were trying to run . So I think it's important to be comfortable .
I don't think you need to spend a fortune definitely not , and it is still one of the cheapest sports out there . If you're going to play tennis , you still need a decent bra , you need a tennis racket , which is 150 quid , I'd still say gym membership is what ? 50 quid , 100 quid a month .
So , in terms of actual cost of exercise , running is still it is still pretty cheap and accessible , even if it has increased in price recently .
What do you think has been one of the barriers to people just getting out the door ?
Oh , were there many ? There are many . I mean , I think everyone struggles get out the door . I have to be honest . The other day my son dragged me out of a run and I was like I would not have gone if you hadn't dragged me out . I would so not have gone , and I love running . But I think there's a lot of very complex reasons .
People say not enough time . So one of the main reasons people give for not exercising is they say they don't have enough time , but then all the time use data shows that people have enough time to watch a couple of hours telly every night . So clearly it's not matter of time , it's matter of priorities .
Really , it does require organization to do a bit of running . I actually think that trying to fit in running around everyday life is probably much easier than , for example , swimming . So your swimming pool has to be open for a certain at a certain time . You have to be able to access it If you're going to do an aerobics class .
I did a zumba class , so I have to book onto my zumba class a week before so I can get a space .
Yes .
I would say that running requires quite a lot less logistical kind of thinking than most sports , because you can literally shove your shoes on , stick some running kit on and run around the block . So sometimes that's what I do .
If I'm really desperate for an exercise , I'll just I have been known to do dinner intervals , so I'll put dinner on , I'll run around the block , I'll stir the potatoes or whatever . I'll run around the block again , I'll put some carrots on . I like that . I like that Do you think people .
Sorry , let's usually when I've been motivated to get to a goal , like I've got a certain number of miles a year that I really want to run and I'm like it's December , I have to get to my goal .
Do you think the people who kind of plan ahead that helps that to ? For instance , oh , I'll go a different route this time or I'll do , I didn't have done any intervals just to break it up and I'll . What was it ?
I'll listen to different forms of music when that will help motivate me , or I've got a new pair of trainers and I'll go , and you feel as if you're going to go faster , but you don't really . I think there's a little , there's a little factor that can help .
I think , whatever works , honestly , I think , try stuff and see if it works . Make yourself a new running playlist and see if it helps . Definitely , yeah , if you've got some new shoes , you do need to try them out because you don't want to waste your money . Yeah , I think .
And yeah , if you are really bored with your existing route , then try something , try a different route , try it backwards . You can always do that . There's lots of lots and lots of tips and tricks you can use to get yourself out the door . I think sometimes people use to post on Twitter , didn't they ?
I'm going on , I'm going for a run , but a social accountability is always quite good .
Oh yeah , I think sometimes there's this thing called hashtag 100 days of running , or something like that and then you just it helps you to keep going and you're telling everyone else that you're keeping going .
Have you heard of Red January ?
No .
I think it originally started as Run Every Day January . It's , I think , something to do with mental health actually , and the idea is you run every day in January .
Oh , okay .
Because January is obviously the most miserable time of year and it's also like when you start new year's resolutions and so on . Yeah , that seems to be a real thing . I think they might actually extend it to other forms of exercise as well for people who , for example , don't want to run , but that's really .
Having a streak is sometimes a really good way of keeping people motivated . If you have to run like one mile every day , otherwise you'll break a streak . That can be very motivating some people Not for me , I would hate it Right but I think for some people it really can work definitely . So do you have any choice in that . They have to do it .
Yeah , so within your research , was there any conclusion that you thought that there were ? I know it's very generalist , but there are certain things that worked to help keep that momentum of running .
I'm not sure that my research was really focused on that to be honest Okay . I think that's what I was looking at . So one thing I did find that the reason why I did my second running study was because One of my findings from the first beginner group study was that Couch of 5k is actually quite difficult for complete beginners and very unfit people .
Interesting quite intense and I interviewed the , the chap who Designed you really . Yeah , josh . Oh , what a lovely man , love I see , I'd love to have you mom .
But I think I did try emailing him , but he probably gets loads and loads or a price because he developed it . He developed it because he broke up from a girlfriend or something like that , and then I think so .
I think it was his mum . His mum was 15 , was a bit unfit and wanted to oh , yeah , so he developed it for her , put it online just as online things were taking off , and it went off from there , but it's actually never been changed since . So the NHS version of Couch of 5k is the same version that he originally Came up with I think it was a it was .
So it's very well designed from a psychological point of view because it's Chunked into small amounts . You have some easy wins because you start off at a very low base and then you improve over the weeks and you run for longer , yeah , and you have a sense of achievement because they structured . So it is , in terms of psychology , very well designed , right .
So he actually works in . I think it's usability or something like that . Yeah , he is not a psychologist , but there's clearly some good psychology behind it , definitely .
But he said even from reading that I think when he desired divide the program he had no sports science background , but it just so happens that it worked , so yes , yeah , and I think the reason it worked is because it is , it does it is .
It is an on-ramp , it's very . It starts off quite gently and increases over time . But I think it is actually for real beginners or for very unfit people who might struggle to walk quickly . It's a huge challenge and I think that that's one thing that I did find out , for my first study was that for some people it was just too much .
If you're ready , quite fit , it was fine , it was okay , you might not have had any problems .
But if you're not , if you're not and if you haven't run before , or if you're Really struggling , then actually it can be quite this hard and to not be able to do that week I think it's week five or week six there's a really long run chucked in there 20 minutes or something , and I think it's an eight minutes of 20 minutes , which is a huge leap .
I decided to do my own version , but make it more gentle and with more optional walking , more optional runs in there . So it gave people an opportunity to do if you're having a hard day , you could do a little bit more walking and a little bit less running , for example .
So I can't , but you're still progressing to the same but you're still progressing which is that's great .
Yeah , and I didn't have that huge leap as well , and I also start off with 30 seconds running because I was like a minute is a long time for a complete beginner , so I started off really slow , so really gentle , yeah .
So I came with my inversion and then I compared it with the couch 5k version and I got feedback on it and Originally I wanted to go off and do something with it . But then , obviously , life changing career , finished my PhD .
Yeah , hopefully I will at something . Do you think the couch to 5k is trying to shoehorn itself into every how , everyone's fitness and that's why Maybe sometimes it works for someone and then another time to work for other people ? Yes , like a lot of the things , these things .
That's a problem . If you have a very structured program , then it is , by its very nature , going to be one size fits all , or one size Doesn't quite fit everyone , or likely , so yeah . So I wanted something which was maybe a little bit more flexible and maybe aimed at people who were less fit as well . That's really what I was aiming for .
And then , but I think the catch 5k , if you , if you run before , if you're trying to come back from injury , it is fantastic , absolutely fantastic . Or if you've got quite a high level of fitness , then yes , it is a fantastic Programmed , definitely , and it's been very successful .
I think also , the another thing that I include as part of my podcast was some of the kind of Psychology behind running as well and trying to get people to enjoy it a bit more rather than just Playing music at them .
So I had some countdowns in there so they knew when they were going to finish , because there's lots of psychology behind timing and People knowing when things are going to be finished , for example .
So there's quite a lot of psychology that I put into my podcast as well in terms of those kind of ideas , but also things like you look around , you make sure you notice what's going on around you .
Yeah , just take your mind off things because the people running by themselves and it's much more kind of you can be really focused on your body and the research also shows of being focused externally . Especially if you're the beginner , then that could be more successful .
No , I totally agree because I know it's a small thing . But when you're doing intervals , it's really nice when they say this is your last interval .
Because when you do because You're , if you're doing a like a really hard interval and then you're waiting for the race , and yes Then you're thinking is this the last one , even though , for instance , I'm gonna do a thousand kilometers of warm-up and then I'm gonna do eight times 30 seconds fast with a 30 second , you're not gonna remember which number you're gonna
be on . It'd be nice like they say this is your last one , so you can really put much more of an effort into it . Yeah you can make feel relieved . Yes , I totally agree with that .
It's actually
¶ Motivation and Rewards in Fitness Training
it's . You can go even more in depth in terms of how cool you from that . So there's a thing called the small area effect and it's basically focusing on a smaller area is more motivating than focusing on a larger area . So , for example , if you have eight , then knowing that you're on number two of eight is really motivating .
Then there's a stuck in the middle effect , where the middle is the hardest bit , and then once you've gone past the middle , then you're on an upward Motivational curve . So if you know the middle , then that can be the most difficult bit . But then you're After .
You're over that kind of Psychological hump , if you were , and then the small area effect is what you have left . So only three to go , only two to go , only one last one . So you could be even more specific than that . So instead of saying , oh , you have seven to go , that's really demotivating , exactly exactly .
You've done two whole intervals and later on you can you're on number seven , you've only got . So you've only got two to go now .
Yeah , no , that's really good , that's very interesting and it also you can . If you monitor it , then you can have a look at your intervals and have past your going when they on a map or something like that .
Mm-hmm , do you think it's good to a very long time , to be honest . I'm a bit paralysis by analysis me , and then you're clearly very into the data which I'd my yeah .
But as to when , what I do with the data or whatever , I always find that it's all very much having a lot of data and that kind of thing , but when I look back it's been running the same as I was , by the speed as it was three years ago or something like that kind of thing .
That's good . That's an improvement if you've got one right , yeah .
It's always good to reward yourself . Do you think that helps ?
Absolutely , yes , absolutely . I think you should . I think , especially for beginners , once you've started doing the Couch5K , I think it's a really good idea to give yourself a big pat on the back , tell people so they can congratulate you , you can give yourself a round of applause .
I think actually celebrating the end is always a really good idea , and just taking some time to think about look , I've accomplished this . I think that's why the Couch5K and similar programmes are really rewarding , because you can see a huge improvement over a relatively short period of time .
It might be more difficult once you get to a certain level in your plateau . Then it might become more difficult . I think for beginners definitely like celebrating your successes is a really good motivating factor , and as well so my beginner groups . They give each other round of applause at the end and I think that's a real sense of achievement .
I think that's important definitely .
Do you think his programme would have worked in a non-digital age ? I know he put it on a website and I don't think he did .
So I thought that he'd actually invented it , but it turns out there's a paper that was written by someone I don't remember who it was .
I think he's a kind of a social geographer and he had examined this interval training programme from I think it was the 1950s or something 1950s , 1960s , something like that and it was set up by a doctor who was trying to get people not to have heart attacks . It was something random like that and he actually had intervals . It was a fascinating paper .
He actually had run walk intervals to get people to start to run . So , I don't think there's anything new under the sun , really , but definitely in case of the right place , right time , right technology .
Yes , exactly the fact that apps came along , then I think Couch Five K probably got an extra boost , because then you can programme it and then you could programme it so people could listen to their own music , because , again , music can be a huge motivator for getting people to enjoy their running definitely .
My gosh nearly . Oh , we've done 50 minutes already .
¶ Starting Out in Running
I just want to say do you have any sporting heroes ?
Do I have any sporting heroes ? I'm not sure I do . You're expecting to say something about Paul and Ratcliffe or something , aren't you ?
No , I don't know . I grew up with Sevcoe and Steve Overt that kind of thing , so I liked that rivalry that they had and a great thing for British athletics at the time .
I did beat Roger Black in a race . Oh really , he was running with his four-year-old . Oh really , there was an event at Surrey Sports Park . It was a fun sports day .
It was a really great thing , actually a really great idea , and they had like a one-mile K race or something around the field and I was like , yes , I beat Roger Black because he was there as an ambassador . Very nice man .
So what would you say from your research and I know you've briefly talked about it is what would your take-aways be for people who are starting out running in terms of , from an emotional point of view ?
I think the main thing would be slow down .
Yeah .
That would be the main takeaway is , people think that they have to go off , like you're saying , but they think running must be hard , running must be fast , running must be painful , and I'm not sure that any of that is particularly . It doesn't have to be true .
Running can be uncomfortable , definitely , and if it is uncomfortable then you can use all kinds of ideas and take your mind off of . Listening to music has definitely been trying to help examining your environment , running with someone else so you can talk to them . Loads of different ideas like that to like distract from the discomfort .
But I don't think it should be painful , I don't think it should be hard . I think you should try to enjoy it . Definitely you shouldn't . I think it's very much a very macho idea about running should be fast , should be hard , and I don't think that's necessarily true .
I think , especially for beginners , if you want to run for the long term , you should not go off like a bat out of hell because it hurts , it's painful , you'll get injured , you'll give up and nobody wants that .
So I think your aim at the start should be you'll improve anyway If you just go out and dog a bit , you will get better , naturally , you'll get fitter . Exactly so . I think my number one takeaway would be slow down , enjoy yourself .
Okay , yeah , and then maybe I don't know , just I don't just get some proper running kids and whatever , but don't get definitely with a prayer for a good breath . Yeah , and don't get the good breath and good shoes . I know I find it very hard to not go to go running without watch . I think that's .
I just can't do that , but some people do and it can be quite invigorating and , I think , physical comfort is important , yeah , so if it's a really hot day , then yes , go when it's cooler , take some water , slow down . I think actually making sure you're physically as comfortable as you can be is also really important . Yes , definitely .
We're just coming to the end of the podcast . I hope you've enjoyed this podcast , because I know you have done one yourself as well .
Mine was very different , yours was very different .
Did you listen to many other sort of beginner ?
podcasts . So I had to listen to a lot of Laura from Culture 5K when I was doing my and a lot of really terrible music because I had to find the music , or myself I do . I don't listen to so many exercise podcasts at the moment , but I have in the past , as a wonderful one by a Swedish man .
I'm not sure he does that anymore I used to listen to a lot of podcasts by people who were out running and they interviewed people while they were running . I love that kind of thing . So maybe you get out of your spare time , spare room and onto the road .
Yes , yeah , that's right , maybe get a bit fitter and then I can actually ask the questions , and then make notes with the answers . Anyway , katie , thank you very much for agreeing to come on , and I also thank you very much to Tamsin as well .
Oh , Tamsin is wonderful , Isn't she ? Yeah ?
yeah , she's wonderful , but so I interviewed her a couple of weeks ago . But please do listen to that .
I definitely will , definitely will . But well done in your podcast .
It's always like yeah , thank you . This is , I think , number 40 , something I just started at the beginning of the year .
Well , that's amazing . Well done .
All right , thank you very much , and I'll let you know when it's coming out and also I'll send you a link . But yeah , but , thank you very much Excellent stuff .
I'll plug it far and wide .
All right , thank you very much , bye , bye .
Thank you Bye .