It's the brew podcast. It's the drive B with her Linda, our guest today is Tony Mcgee, the man who founded Lag. He's been in once before, Tony, welcome again, it's great to see you dude. Thanks. You really look good. What have you been doing? Well, you told me the other day that you've been doing, like, a lot with like, horses and gardening and Yeah. Yep, basically, my wife and I just retreated
to a little piece of property. We are already living on and we just right away, our neighbors put their houses up for sales sweep. We bought those beautiful. So we had this nice little spread out there, and we just we started just accepting, friends that hurt my wife's horses who were, these horses were you know, in their twenties and now they're in their thirties and... So we called a place the last resort. So we got 14 horses. You and 2 donkey and 2 mules and no kid. Yeah. Yeah.
And planted 7000 trees, so it's all just comes pasture. So we still have 20 count calf pairs, but but 7000 trees basically forest us in the property The last time I saw Tony was actually Friday. He was gracious enough to join me and Don Barclay, who was worked at new A and found Men brewing company, and Mark Carpenter, Yeah. Mark Carpenter from anchor. I got to interview both of them. Yeah, Tony on that, mike. Yeah. On this mic.
Okay. Yeah. Last Friday for the museum of Sonoma County, the exhibit of, beer and hops. And you No. Log is is part of the history. Yeah. You know? How... That was That was so fun. Thanks for coming doing that. That was very fun. It was that's the first thing I've been asked to do since so since 2017. So was a nice nice time to relax, but also, it was a great thing to be called because they had the brewery be part of something that's a museum and very
cool. That's a... Did you ever think you'd be in antiquity or in art in the archive? You what? You know? I always hope to 1 day I'd be worth something, you know? So It's I'm looking at good beer hunting dot com, and let me read the this article by just about any standard, Tony Mcgee should be considered 1 of the most success full Americans to have ever worked in beer.
The entrepreneur started California's Lag brewing company in 19 93, grew its Ipa focused portfolio owned to 1 of the largest breweries in the country. And now we're gonna talk about He. Well, so how did that start? I how did the He Yeah interaction start? Yes, please. You know, I I we were beginning to sell beer overseas, you know, here and there. That's very difficult to do and it's hard to do well. It's
easy to do it poorly. Sure. And of course, And end up with old beer here and there all over the world and your reputation suffers. And so... But but I knew that we wanted to do that, and I could see that the Us market was filling up. With breweries. It was not a bad thing, but it was filling up. I mean, there was it really had brewery was opening every day. When when we started, I think there were 1200 breweries in the country, and when I did the made the He could.
I think they're were 1200 in California. Yeah. And so I just thought I was like, you know, we need to cast a long line here to to start looking at a future that's bigger than just having fist fights in arm wrestling with with breweries in the United States in order to hold her You know, when you first... Anakin it was the last family owned global bridge. Yes. I remember. Yeah. Bad that's that was the reason why them, You know, place we didn't talk to other brewers, never talked
to an he bush. Never talked to miller coo never right who's just He. And that is a for... From all reports that I know, a great company. And when that happened, I thought it was a good idea for you. Wow. Well, that's something. You know. Some people didn't. A lot of people didn't. Yeah. But and and, you know, the thing is too that, you know, it's a it's a good company, but it's also, you know, it's company brought a lot of
change to log. And but the thing is that these are changes that would have had to happen, and I couldn't have done them. You know? I couldn't have really we you, we Not without logging need I mean, He. Yeah. I mean, what, we even, like, you know, they need to be restructured in the Us. You know, we we just been growing so fast for so long. That end up kind of little fl and not so focused. Yeah. Yeah. And I couldn't have made those
changes that had to happen. I I wouldn't had the heart to do it even if I knew how to do it well. So He is very focused on making things make sense. And so that's now. Is now He... Totally owned lag? Yes. Oh, Yeah. They do. Since 2017 though. Yeah. Okay. And you've been out and you're were retired. I have been retired. From Lag. I've re chatted and everything else. Well, good for you And your your your life is beautiful and you're still in the
bay... In in our area. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice I wouldn't ever wanna leave this in Yeah. You know? You know, the funny thing is is like, we always side of the brewery. I always side of the brewery. I think people who did it, whether they thought about it or not acted this way. We thought of was an art project.
And and the thing about... You know, an art project is, you know, picasso might work on a painting for a year and suffer over it and started 3 times and throw it away and res sketch it and start up. And finally, when he all done with it, he sells it. It leaves a studio and it never comes back. You know? Right. And you move on to do something else. You know, Well, and in know brewery was like that
for us. And, the stuff all the stuff in the past that Lag did is is well known and loved and people love hanging out there, and you got the stage and the What are you calling that? The we call it the amp theater at? Yes. It it is the outdoor amp computer. There's so much going on there. It's very cool. So whatever every time time I travel, you know, I see Anakin. I'm kinda can I see luggage?
Now this is on my brain. Lag is everywhere, but I brought... I invited La to lithuania as first craft beer festival And ironically, the brewer an organizer for that was actually at my house yesterday, and I took him over to Russian River brewery, Rays richard spot, and and if we just stood the chairs, it's Kat and went lithuania raining them. But you should seen I have these pictures of of
these beer bloggers and the fur... And the first only woman beer in Lithuania, my friend Os, and all these people standing around the the table that La was pouring and Lithuania and this old Soviet factory, taking pictures and totally geek out on the bottles, and I I remember somebody walking up going to my eyes deceive me? Do I see la eat? And this was... Like, they weren't distributing there yet. This was just a
special event. Yeah. But that is how excited people were, you know, to to see your beer there and to get to try it and it was, like, the longest line in the whole the whole place. Wow. Yeah. I mean, the only other 1 I had seen that kind of reverence for was anchor. So the anchor team was 1 of the first fears that had gone in, you know, when they when they we're able to get out of the Soviet union. Right. You got to, like, hang out with Mark, Carpenter
Friday too. Yeah. It was great to seeing Mark, and he's he's the best, right at least so cool. Yeah. Those guys are. But, you, there's... You know, is a former musician. You know, you... You know, the... You you don't copy other people's legs, but you You try to copy how they thought. You play harp, Right. Harp... No. Guitar actually. Oh, okay. I thought give monica. And and and and mostly poorly, but I I work at. But the thing is you copy there what they're thinking, not their legs.
You know? Yeah. Right. So would anchor was somebody who I copied every bit of the thinking that I possibly Doing very. On the very first day. You know. What are we tasting now? It's tastes very familiar. This is actually Tony and I both forgot beer. And so the I went searching through the Wine catcher radio fridge and found a, speaking of history, eraser 5 red rocket Ale. I might have some fresher beer, newer beer. Fine. On its way over here. I said... It tasted familiar. And yeah. It is because
I've tasted it. Yeah. And actually funny, Richard Nor grove had messaged me today he's getting me a sign for the museum of Sonoma County Beer exhibit. Okay. So actually, I wanna talk about that a little bit because that's that's how Tony and I re reconnected. I was really pleased when you you said yes to come in to do the video. And then you had to go in and see them installing, and you saw a piece of equipment. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah that has had some kind of old school brewing
equipment in there. And 1 1 thing in particular was that Gru tank. Yeah. And Gru Tanks were these stainless steel tanks that came out of the Uk in other parts of Europe, and they they're there... They didn't ship beer breweries and ship beer to bars and ke. At at the time earlier. They they shipped them where they had trucks with hoses that would pull up. And the and the trucks would, like, fill up, like a gas tank. They fill up these beer tanks in the back. Was Gru a guy or a company was a
company. Yeah. They made these little these little tanks are a there were 7 barrels, but there were some number of leaders on their side of on their side of the pond, but but these things, at some point, the republicans, the, you know, bar owners figured out that they could take the top off them and start filling them back up with water after they sell some of the beer. And so increase their margins, of course, you know, but the breweries sort of got wind of. Thought.
Alright. That's the end of the Gru tanks. And so they just methodically started, taking them out of pubs and replacing the with Ke. And this this fellow that built my very... My first 2 Brew houses, at John Cross out of Porter, Cool, California Cdc, he he he he bought all of the Gru tanks that that were available and and the pretty much the whole of the craft brewing was I mean, size anchor and Sierra, who came earlier.
Everyone that came after, like, about 19 90, but pretty much built their breweries on with Gru tanks at some point. Somewhere in them. And so that little tank is it just, like, 1... It's like, 1 of the founding rocks of craft brewing, you know, these... Well, Brian Hunt from Moonlight Brewery brought Gru over, and it was funny because this is like a... I'm just I'm just volunteering for this. I don't work for the museum, although I I'd love to that. It's super fun I'm enjoying but
they were, like, I don't know. Is it is a brewing equipment gonna fit in here, and that little gru does fit an It's like, I think that's gonna be something that people go look at while they're there. Yeah. And then there was just all those old Grace brothers bottles. And. And there was, like, a little box of old hops to remember. Yeah. Yeah. And I was asking tony. Was like, wow, that's that's so small. How could they have done anything was such a small
a amount of pops. But yours weren't very bitter back then. So hot hops were just added just to just to mute the sugars, but not to be a flavor. You know, yeah. That's weird it. It's totally different. It's got everything's changed. Yeah. You know, you... It's it's strange thing. 1 of the things I think is interesting. Most interesting about craft brewing as a whole. It said many ways it reinvented making beer. You
know? Because beers were not made the way we all made them, And we did it because we didn't know any of or. Yeah. But because of of the interesting things happened, you know? And so... And, like, adding all the hops. So we... You know, us at it, you, when we were me and a friend of mine, grant Asked from Rin brewing. He you know, he... We were some... I think we're probably among the first besides home brewers to be piling the hops into the end
of the boil in the kettle. But that's not how it was done, and no textbook ever told you to do that. You always add a all front. But you didn't know better, so you did it your way. We... Did a flavors get you that's all you see your pallet rather than the dogma. Exactly. Things happen. They're interesting. What has Designer can change anything at Lag because, you know, you mentioned a lot of people are are mad, and I don't get
why that happens. Yeah, you know, people you sold it and you're retired and you're happy. Yeah. People don't like change, you know. Yeah. But every everything has to grow up and eventually you want. You know, if somebody has a kid, you wanted to get out of the stroller or get on a bicycle go out, eventually leave the house and have adventures, you know. But so the the brewery should do the same thing. I mean the brewery is creation. Just like a like like a child. Exactly.
So people... I think if they got upset it was because they didn't quite understand the trajectory of. And something that they loved was being changed. Yeah. But here's the interesting thing though. And this is to He Credit. They've changed a lot of the structure of management, a lot of the structure of the salesforce and However, they have not touched the recipes. Yep. And I and those former former employees are many of the people who
are pitching. Well, well, the ones... Some of the people who were some of the, you know, that needed to go, I wouldn't have had the heart to do. They they didn't. But like, the the brewers are the same brewers I left behind. Exactly. And the the brew master Jeremy Marshall. He's still There. There's no change to the beer. No. And that's the main point. That's right. And and and so He why is in that point. They they they love beer. They really do love beer, but they also love
efficiency and operating and... Well, they're dutch. This other... Are Dutch. Yeah. But Yeah. But, you know, Dutch actually is funny Dutch are more American than than any other European I have they're really Yeah very familiar, you know, there. Yeah. They're they're like us. We're like them, maybe You know, I don't know. I remember you had just had like, this is, like, a really vivid memory. You would just had, like, some neck surgery. Yeah. And like, a, like, a few days later, he was out.
You're working the back or whatever those things are called, Yeah. Building the apa empathy, there's slope. Yeah. And I was, like, look at him, Like. And then if, like, like, a few days later, I get a I get a call from Ron Linden Bush saying, hey. Hurley, we we've been a band here from England Gomez, and we need a hostess with the most is to make sure the band's happy and and Fed, so we can deal with this new appetite Or and can you get
us security guard, which I did. And then I had so much fun with those guys. They were from Liverpool. Yeah. Gomez. You guys said... You got the best bands That was, like, how did that idea my back because I remember when you were just a, like, like, pouring out of you know, just c on dirt. You know, back in the day. I I always wanted to have bands, you know? And we... And that's why we had a staged damp in the, the beer garden, but I realized pretty quickly there. If we had real musicians can
play that people were drinking beer. They weren't there for a shell. Right. So that wasn't gonna work. We had. So there was this little lot between the buildings, and that became the outdoor and theater. Yeah. And I I love that. And... So, Laura Laura, Mu who was there for a long time. She she was just a wizard at finding these bands just before they would break and become big. And so bands would play 1 year and the next year, they couldn't play there because they had to play up 3008 rooms. You
know. No man's got really big. Yeah. I saw Char. Yeah. Carl Dent. Tiny universe there. Yeah. So I just saw Laura... The other day. She's booking the bands at Little Saint He. Oh, she. Yeah. Good for her. And she's and crazy stuff, like Phoebe bridges before Phoebe got. Yeah. She had... She just has an ear for for for musicians, You know, O do. Right on the cusp. And I can't wait to talk more about this, the great famed Tony Mcgee, founder of Lag is back with us.
In this article, I'm looking at it, You're called the famed founder of the s irr 04:20 friendly and foundational Northern California brewery. I say that says it all. How you bad though. They not they said it. As this website calls him the man, the myth. Searching for Tony Mcgee. Well, he's not hard to find. He's right across from me now. It's great to have you and men. Yeah, it's nice to be here. So we've talked about the sale in He and all that crap.
Let's talk about since you're retired, though, the future of craft beer in especially Sonoma County because it's gone out of control. I don't know. What do they call Santa Rosa the Beer city. Yeah. Yeah. It there's and there's so many great breweries, and they're all wonderful people. Yeah. I've had them all on. Wow, you know, I mean, it's, you know, this is the best time in the last thousand years to be a beer
lover. Right? I mean, you you you could go your whole life, have beer every day and never drink the same beer twice, You know, and So it's it's a... You know, it's a great thing. It's it's a difficult, you know, economic, environment, but it could be that, you know, the, you know, when there are so many breweries it's difficult to build volume, but Yeah. But it could be that it's a craft and and that's what it needed to be
all along. Right. And and it's returning to be that just through, you know, just through, you know, the the number of part players. So it's so it's, you know, it's like having a a little furniture shop or something, and we make beers. We know our customers, our customers know us. And Yeah. That's a beautiful thing, man. That is. That's a uniquely Sonoma county thing. Yeah. I agree. Yes. Know. So lug is part of the museum the Sonoma County exhibit that opens tomorrow to the members
of museum sonoma candidates. It's called On tap. The first history of Bi Hops in, Sonoma County. So, of course, you know, the first in ingredient in America it was new Avi in the town of Sonoma. The hot picking machine, the Don arrow was invented in Santa Rosa. And they still have dan howard operating up in, Y Valley. Washington I talked to Tom Fraser, his family. Was the don hours. Right
yeah. The other day, and, yeah, they moved all the operations up there, but they still own the building where least to make them across what used be the the holes the Goose and burn now. Oh, really. In railroads, it's square Santa Rosa. But some of the questions I was asking you and, Don and Mark on, you know, Show the end other day was, like, what was your... Like, let's go back to, like, the beginning.
I let's talk about the history. Like, what was your inspiration to start a brewery and how did that get started? Oh, well. You know, for a lot of people, that came later in particular, it was the fulfillment of a dream. You know, they've been home and there's this idea, and they tried to raise some money and started you know, for me, it was, I fell into it. I was selling commercial printing and the Gulf war started and all my printing customers went away and When I
I finally got back on my feet. I just said I'd never gonna let that happen again. And so I thought about what else I could do and then don't know. I thought I wasn't gonna be married forever at that point. And so, you know, life just kind of spins you around him. And so I said, well, I know I'm gonna do on it quits. I I'm gonna start a start to stop selling printing by starting a little business, and this will be what my b brother got me a homebrew kit for Christmas in 92.
I'm brew in January, December of 93, the brewery is open. Logging more seizure. 93. Yeah Yeah. More seizure than it was a decision. But the thing is is I recognize recognized all kinds of things in brewing that are similar to music. I mean, they're very there... You know, there's There's there's themes and there's development if there's range and there's rhythm in know if you drink a beer, you'd have a little taste. It's like a little 3 minute, 3 second ay dude. You know, there's
a beginning. There's a middle and there's an hand and gray notes and there's little travel notes in the highlights And... So there's everything about beer I recognize it was like I was Everything in life had prepared before it. So I just went with it. A lot of the beer lag is hop focused. Ipa, and and we'll talk about that. How did that... What what major come up with that idea to to do that? Mh. Well, well, my friend Grant Johnston, who was a brewer I'm ren brewing for a long time. It
was 1 of the private... 1 of the most awarded homebrew brewers of all time. You know. But he's just the most curious guy And and at, he would go home every day after brewing and rear brewing, and he'd go back to his apartment and a little house he rented in wood acre, and he would, he he to homebrew. And so I started meeting up for home brewing it. Before Log was even open, and and I just... He was doing things with hops where they were going in late late late in the boil and was very unusual.
But it instead of having bitterness for being in the boil the whole time, they went in the end, so it it's just the flavor fraction of the components of the hops. They say. And so we did that and all of a sudden, it was, like, a place to stand. These are flavors that hadn't really been expressed before, and you know, everything comes from somewhere, and I don't wanna say we invented anything. But what we... I think we discovered a set
of flavors. Apparently as we... And but then 19 95 came along, and the crap industry kinda went into a big spin tails spend and nobody is growing and lots of people gone out of business. And by the time it all came back about 2001, 2002. The things we were we were doing were working, and other brewers looked at what we were doing that was working and then, that was... It's just like music. Yeah. If somebody's doing a certain groove that works, you incorporated.
It's not it's not copying. It's emulate Exactly. And then you make it your own and you do your own things. And so III don't wanna, you know, even even Fritz May tech go with Liberty hale was doing that hop forward thing before us, you know? But, you know, III think we made it our central thesis in Right. In a lot in a way that that be it became our voice. Where's the name lag anita come from, yeah, after that last time you were, but
it's been so long at don't remember. K. It's this little town and West, you know, kind of just west a fair facts since francis. Drake where I lived. Yeah. 1 side of the science says, welcome to La The other science says, thanks for visiting, you know. And and and that's Thought I put the brewery with in the basement, and I filled out the paperwork with the word La anita sun in the name of the business everywhere. County said the county then and
I went talk to them. And they're like, you're never going to do that in your house. In this county. Like, okay. So I ended up moving a little town of forest K next door, but I just thought the name looked pretty. Yes I just thought the letters, the letter from It's fun to say everybody loves seeing it. Okay. And I eat this. And and most people say it wrong, which was the best thing. In a way. It's say la qui, like a night. Yeah. You know. I love that too. You know Yeah. Like La qui.
Every kind of... But the thing is is if you get it wrong, and then somebody corrects you, you're in the family now. Yeah. Right now. It's like, now you you know something that the guy next to you doesn't know. He is a Tony Mcgee founder of Lag brewing company. I wanna get your thoughts on Russian River Brewing wings, p the younger because. Because it such... It becomes such a huge thing. Yeah. Worldwide. Yes. It is. It I it's an astounding you know, how do how does 1 become Taylor swift.
You know, I mean I... If it if if it happens, it happens and it certainly happened to Any and and that beer. Yeah. And it's you know, it's it frankly, it's it's a it's en, but it's also amazing. But the thing is when something like that happens then your job is the creators is not to fail that luck. And Vin and and Natalie certainly never failed that luck. Right. And and and then he did all sorts other things as whole other spectrum of the sour and
the Belgian styles stuff that's... That just gave such breath to the whole thing. And wasn't just a a brewery that made happy beers. So Earl? Yep. Stuff some of my favorite beers at Lag used to do. I wish they would bring, I... But chronic and since, you know, which became sent third. Mh. Of course. And a cappuccino stout. I absolutely love brown sugar of course, but, you know, that's a given. But, like, so like, what were some of your favorite bureaus that you...
Cappuccino was the second beer I made. And I have a feeling it was probably 1 if not the, earliest. Coffee beers in the United States. Love that. It was it was a fun thing to do. It seems so wrong to put coffee and beer. I I used to describe it, like, a speed ball, you know, between the alcohol and the and the caffeine is like, having someone pull up on your hair while they stand on your foot, you know? Wonder I like it.
I ever remember being up of the loft to 1 day you guys would do the industry parties and up in the loft at La. And, La lu or, goat ice cream was there. And they were making... And beer shakes with cappuccino style and vanilla goat, ice cream, and it was, like, sounded so weird, but it was, like, putting the best things. It sounds great. It. Delicious. It was so so good. Yeah. Everything about craft brewing, it's about flavor. We live in a world of flavor now. You know?
That didn't exist before that. That's like judging beer. It's so And and if you drink... And if you drink, like a a course banquet beer, I have no way to know this for sure, or if you could drink a Pb, there there's more hot presence in all those beers. There's there's more flavor present. And I think that at some point the people who are the, you know, the top of those companies set of themselves Oh my god. People are tasting the beer.
You It's not just about brand imagery. It's not just about, you know, the party environment is not just about pricing. Know. It's flavor. Flavor used to be way down on the hierarchy of what mattered in the brand, You know? Now I I think moved way up and crap and change that. People are pick. I just actually picked up a case of, the w bear 04:20, how so how did you... Like, did you start that or, like, was wrong? Like, not had did you meet them first?? No. We
were... Ron knew those guys. From some somehow III think probably, you know, through the the through the Emerald cup, and he, you know, he's a judge in the emerald cup. And and and we were doing just 04:20 stuff on our labels and and and the Pos and stuff. And there's a brewery in Atlanta the apparently got a federal trademark on a registration for 04:20, and and they they said, you know, you can't do that anymore. And we're like, okay. So we you thought, well, let's let's
work our way up the tree. What's even cooler than 04:20. Oh, how about how about the gentleman that actually coined the dirt those. And they happen to be low. They have zap. We had 1 on the show. A long time ago. And at first they didn't want... They weren't really sure they wanted to be known Right. As individuals. Although the Waldorf story was something. But and the little by the little, they started I realized realizing that there was credibility. I mean when 1 guy was ran
a security company. You know, security cards. Another kid... Another guy thought that he didn't want his kids knowing that. You know? And And I you can't blame them. You know, but after a little while. It's like, they're they are, like, freaking yeah. Yeah Okay. Yeah. And they... They're called the W because they at 04:20 in the afternoon from... At Marin High school, they got out on the wall and get stoned. On under under the Louie pasteur stature. That's 04:20 Louie Break. Think was
red went high. Right? It was Red high. Yeah. Yeah. It was red high. And Oh, okay. Those guys were super funny... They're like, lawyers and stuff down. There was just an Instagram, ad or or or post at with logging with all of them. Mh. And then on the couch, in the in the loft, jumping off the the couch then day. I was like, okay. I'm glad to see those guys are doing, well, I left Steve a master cp come on again, but So you guys, like, the beer circus,
the wall does. I mean, you guys came up with, like, the craziest coolest most iconic ideas. You know, but the funny thing with even the beer circus, there was a the first first year that they did San Francisco Beer Week. Okay, a bunch of San Francisco Brewers who saw us as kind of crowding the market by selling so much Ipa, and we weren't from the city, and so they didn't invite us to the
planning meetings. And next, we know we find out 1 of them has just has has assigned themselves as the person who's gonna do the lag tour. When the bus went north out of the city. And we're were like, alright. We are gonna put on a party that nobody has ever seen before. Yeah. The beer circus. We're gonna steal San Francisco beer week from here if we can. Are they still doing the beer circus and lug? I I don't know. I I don't have. But but that was why it was it was trying
to make a point. It's like you wanna have fun. This is be the place to be. Beautiful? I did first aid for the first few beer circus as of volunteer interior I used to be an Em emt. Yeah. So much fun. Like, were, like, crazy marching bands that looked like That's right. Like nightmare before Christmas dressed up. There was... It was like, an r rated, maybe half that rated marching band... That's perfect. Yeah. It was it was everything was so adult and and the...
But it was all 21. An overs. No no. It's all cool people played out it. I was right. And there was the clown that's my own death death metal. Yeah. It is the drive B, and it is brought to you, of course, by Russian River brewing. Home run pizza in Fair field into the victory house at the Poppy bank epicenter, our guest today, the wonderful mcgee founder of Lag now retired. It is Beer Country here. Now in Sonoma County if... But, of course, it's known as wine country.
Just 1... I don't think I've ever asked you, do you like wine and do you drink much of it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean love wine. Out. Now... Yeah. My wife always like, wine more than beer, You know? Yes. And she worked at the brewery for a long time. So... But there's a lot of things lot of... There's a lot things about crap running and white and the Wine business here that have a lot common. And Yeah. I agree. Especially the earlier days of of the wine business here when it was mostly mom and pops
and Right. You know, and everyone is struggling to make it make it work and they're were ambitious only, like, but what they do is they loved what they had and that would... So that was that was inspiring. And you think about making a brewery Was like, well, I don't know anything about Wine by. No beer now but I see how they do it. We're gonna be the same way. We're gonna invite people in every day of the week who want people to come and party with us. You know? So I know why
operational. Outside of a lag is is He doing anything different? Are they building anything more? Or they're gonna expand on on anything. You, you know, they they... Their... The company never isn't growing, and they're always sort of, you know, making little acquisitions of breweries here in there in in the world and So, but, you know, they're taking lag Need to more and more and more countries. I mean, I understand it's on fire in Paris and in Sao paulo and Rio and I I
was in... We were talking about in H chi Min City is old Sai. Right? And I have came into a... We've met met some brewers there at a place called heart darkness Brewing And his his... His Ipa tasted a lot like maximus. It was it was very cool. You know? I mean, it it was nothing not again, not copied, but you could tell how influences appear, but the thing is all the brewers we met their all new, the undercover shutdown story. Oh, yeah. And these guys
are in freaking vietnam. And they knew, you know, it's like that so you sessions some of I'm sure. Well, all. Some of it was cool. Yeah. And I didn't I didn't correct them. So that in some ways that's what He does is they're taken h to the world. It's in a world. Yeah. And the beer is exactly the same as it was that When you were there... The the the specifications of the bear are the same.
Yeah. In some ways, I think the beer is even cleaner too than it was when we made it because they're just more scientific brewers than we were. You know, we were all homegrown brewers and... Right. And so they brought things to it the appears more stable and it's flavors are a little sharper, or a little brighter now, And I mean, it's sort of like someone focusing a camera, you know? The lab techs and stuff as well. Yeah. But I I just blank on what I was going
to ask you about, but... So, yeah. So I know that they've built a brewery in the Netherlands and and then 1 1 in Belgium, they're were actually using a, brewery from the 13 hundreds at 1 point, like in the Netherlands as well too that they were... Yeah. Brand... Putting together. Yeah. I thought that was that was really
interesting. There was something... Oh, I know. So in the museum, they have the bottle of undercover shutdown ale, all the agents that rated logging need for the undercover shutdown, signed the bottle and gave it to Ron Ron, and they put it in a glass close, and that is actually in the museum sonoma mechanic exhibit. Do you wanna tell the story a little bit? Tell the story man? Oh, well, we we always spoke Pat the brewery. But but we weren't a pub, so we weren't a bar. We was just us at work.
And Right. And, you know, I I would never a second. I mean, we we had You know, we're... Are you are you okay to work today? Not are you... Not are you sober? Are you straight? Are you, you know what the... Yeah Was more... Because, you know, and the people that work there, we're we're all rag tag. And so, you know, everyone... Nobody was like polished. And so it was just us. And they... But we were having these open houses on Thursday nights and so the Abc thought, wonder
what's going on there. And so they sent some people in. And and for 8 nights in a row, they they are weeks in a row, they came in. They got hammered and had we cut off. The Abc b guys. Yes. Because we... Because when they finally did the bust, we re... Of course recognized them and and they would they're bartender would caught them off of them now you're not over serving you. You you you're a mess.
And so these are the people that are then, like, writing up a Or, then they tried to buy pot from people, and nobody would nope nobody would sell pot. But everybody would give them whatever they wanted to free. And the agent told me that I was out of town that the night of the party. That came back in Monday morning, and and and then I called the agent right away and I was like, I understand you try to buy pot people You should be ashamed to yourself. Then she said, what this
is what I do for living. And I'm like, well, alright. Day. I sal and she goes, no, but they're all willing to get me for free. I'm like, yeah, those are my people. They were raised. Yeah. It's was better to give than receipts. That's an amazing and I have heard it before, but when coming from you. It's even more amazing. But then the whole thing even went on a while longer. That went on for a full year before we finally got
the allegations out. Left And, I had an attorney in the city, and the guy who was my attorney within that firm. There's a working on this was the former general counsel for the Abc b. He had just left to go into private practice.
So I thought, well, this is great. He knows knows the lay lam, but the end turned out that, while he's a good guy and he tried hard he wasn't gonna represent something that was gonna be problematic for the Abc because in the end, as soon as we closed our deal with the Abc, he he went back to work for Abc. No. Did the big shots at the Abc know that there their people were getting hammered.
That... I'm trying to buy pot don't know what they knew, you know, It's instead say, but I do know that the the the 2 guys in Sacramento who ran the Abc took a meeting with me, and they shouldn't have done that because I went around their regional guys. And I sat there and we talked for a while, and they agreed that, you know, yes, Sonoma County. No pod is not meth. They said, but we have only 1 rule, and I got bars and Fresno. He says that sell meth. And so you
have... I can't make a exception. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. He said so he said, how long could you take a suspension? I was like, 20 days. That way, I could sell 10 days in the beginning or 5 days in the beginning of the month, 5 days the end of the month. I'd have a financial statement for the bank. We'd have business going on He says when do you wanna do? I said, well, we're putting in a bottling line in January. It'll take 20 days to install. He's like, what day do you wanna start?
Cool. And it was set. And And and I walked out of that meeting, they we're we're we're, like best friends by the end of that meeting. A problem that he had been resolved, and and and I went It got my car took a huge fucking head off. So off joint and fell asleep for an hour. That's such a great story. I mean, I can't believe those Abc people were coming in and getting hammered and s. Damn. You know, they were having a good time. Yeah. They were doing what we. Them to do was.
But then they came back to shut you down. Yep. Well, the ticket... They were just people. The citation you the the museum to the citation they gave Ron. When they arrested him is in the museum as well, The museum with Sonoma County exhibited Baron Hops, the on top of that. Opens tomorrow to the members, and then April 20 seventh is the Shin. And I hope you're
gonna be able to come, Tony. There's gonna be bunch of legends from the, you know, the beer industry, Tara Is doing a, book reading a book signing from a woman's places in the Brew house, which your wife, Chris is actually in. As well as Natalie Russian River and, you know, older and newer, like, all kinds of... On the 20 seventh You're talking about July. Right? No. April 20 seventh is... It's gonna be... It's gonna be called the spring fling, So not only at the museum.
At the museum. So there's gonna be... They have a modern museum next door. So Brianna Darling is gonna be throwing metal sculptures at the same time. We're gonna have beer tasting, Mh. As well out in the garden. And then this is separate from the beer festival that's gonna happen July twentieth. So this is gonna be an event for just kind of like people coming and seen the exhibits of and then July twentieth in the sculpture garden, we're gonna have an evening
beer festival. So it's not gonna be so hot. Yeah. There's all these beautiful redwood trees and stuff in the sculpture garden. Pond farm brewing just told me that they're gonna bring some beer. Remember there's the pond from ceramics. So there's a pond farm brewing in Marin, and they're they were thrilled to find out that they're all the ceramics and things bond bon form. They're gonna be pouring their. Log is actually a sponsor. I got them to actually do a cash sponsorship.
I'd like to get more from them. I can I'm gonna try. Russian a sponsor as well. Alright. Man, it's a pleasure to have you and you're such a great guest. You you gotta do it more often. Well, that comes be nice to be invited. Then this museum show it yeah be very cool. And we're gonna be involved in and talking a lot about it as we have been. He is the founder of Lag anita, now retired. Tony Mcgee. Tony Great to see you again. Thanks for coming in.