7/25/24: Biden Breaks Silence On Dropout, Shock Kamala Trump Polls, Kamala DEI Debate, Top VP Picks Revealed, Bibi Trashes Protesters To Standing Ovation, FBI Director Stuns With Trump Shooter Details - podcast episode cover

7/25/24: Biden Breaks Silence On Dropout, Shock Kamala Trump Polls, Kamala DEI Debate, Top VP Picks Revealed, Bibi Trashes Protesters To Standing Ovation, FBI Director Stuns With Trump Shooter Details

Jul 25, 20242 hr 18 min
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Episode description

Krystal and Saagar discuss Biden breaks silence on drop out, first polls reveal landscape shakeup, debate on Kamala 'DEI' candidate, Kamala top VP picks revealed, Bibi trashes protesters to standing ovation in Congress, FBI director stuns with Trump shooter details.

 

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election.

Speaker 2

We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

Speaker 1

Indeed we do because soccer is back. Congratulations, my friend.

Speaker 2

Appreciate you still getting used to this wedding ring? I'm not so sure.

Speaker 1

Yeah, a little weird? Looks goody weird?

Speaker 2

What do we have?

Speaker 1

Notice? Is there? Very all right? So a lot to get to you in the show. Biden gave his long awaited I Guess address last night, so we'll give you some highlights if you want to call it that, from that very brief interesting break that down for you. We also have new polls helping us to understand where Kamala Harris is in the presidential race visa v. Joe Biden. A though I Still it's a little bit early to see how all of this is going to settle out, but we're going to dig into how she's doing among

different demographic groups, vis of you, Biden. We're also going to take a look at I wanted to specifically get saggered away in on this, the Republican attacks against Kamala Harris and how those are going. You have the whole Dei thing. You had a comment about her being the quote original hawk Tua girl. You now have the added attack that she is insufficiently pro Israel, this one coming from Trump himself and Lindsay Garceta. We'll go through them and talk about all of that. We also have the

latest in terms of her deep steaks. Now that she is effectively the presumptive nominee, who is she looking at? What are their strengths and weaknesses? Who is most likely to make the cut. Yesterday, Baby Net yahoo in town. He's actually still in town today. He's meeting with Biden and Harris. But yesterday he gave his big address to Congress. It was, in my opinion, disgusting. But we'll show you some of that as well and the reaction to it.

And we also are taking a look at the latest revelations with regard to the attempted assassination attempt, attempt at assassination attempt, the assassination attempt on Trump's life, and what we are learning from now the FBI director about the stunning security failures. Earlier this week, the Secret Service director finally stepped down. It was insane that it even took the length of time that it did. So we'll bring you all of those details, which just continue, honestly to shock.

Speaker 2

The entire thing is. While it's one of those stories that I actually was unable to unglue myself from it. When I saw that clip of Rocanna and her and she didn't know what happened with the reken director, I couldn't. I was like, this is the most insane thing. And then more and more of the details just absolutely stunning, top to bottom failure.

Speaker 1

The agents needs to be good, wouldn't answer any just basically how many agents were there? Won't say why wasn't there someone there, won't say how many bullet cases were I mean, it's just insane.

Speaker 2

We're getting more detail only from the FBI director, luckily, and I'm sure as the months go on, we're gonna learn even more about it. Thank you to our our premum subscribers. We appreciate you. We are gearing up. We are so ready for the DNC. We're gonna be on the around exclusive coverage the entire crew there. So sign up Breakingpoints dot com. We're gonna have some exciting news soon for premium members. But let's go ahead and start.

As Crystal said, with Joe Biden, he finally broke his silence. We hadn't heard from him in quite a long time. He issued a letter, he called in. There was a lot of speculations to his health condition, etc. He's actually alive. What's happening. He's given us proof of life a couple of times. We finally appeared on camera to make his announcement about why he is not running again. Very brief remarks,

and you can see his age really shining through. We've cut a little bit of that announcement and we're going to talk a little bit about what he said. Let's take a listen, my fellow Americans.

Speaker 3

I'm speaking of tonight from behind the resolute tesk in the Oval Office, in this sacred space, I'm surrounded by portraits extraordinary American presidents Thomas Jefferson wrote the immortal words that guide this nation. George Washington, who showed us presidents are not kings. Abraham Lincoln, who implored us to reject malice, Franklin Roosevelt, who inspired us to reject fear. I revere this office, but I love my country more. It's been the honor of my life to serve as your president.

But in the defense of democracy, which is at stake, I think is more important than any title. I draw strength and I find joy in working for the American people. But this sacred task of perfecting our union, it's not about me. It's about you, your families, your futures. It's about we, the people. We can never forget that, and I never have. So I've decided the best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation. That's

the best way to denne our nation. You know, there is a time and a place for long years of experience in public life. There's also a time and a place for new voices, fresh voices, yes, younger voices, and that time and places. Now, I'd like to thank our great Vice President Kamala Harris. She experienced, she's tough, she's capable. She's been an incredible partner to me and the leader for our country. Now the choice is up to you,

the American people. Nowhere else on earth could a kid with a stutter from modest beginning to Scranton, Pennsylvania, Claimont, Delaware one day sit behind the Resolute desk in the Oval Office as President of United States. But here, I am that's what's so special about America.

Speaker 2

I mean, this is incredibly stunning, Crystal. I mean, just to reflect a little bit back on the history of it, I've been thinking a lot about that. The nineteen sixty eight parallels are out of control.

Speaker 4

Here.

Speaker 2

We literally have an RFK in the race, a one term Democratic president deciding at the last minute not to run for re election. He's endorsing his vice president. The vice president now has the noose around the next possibly running better than the current president would have, but has to contend with unpopular foreign wars and the domestic turmoil that has been wrought under their presidency. I haven't gotten yet a chance to even just consider how historic and

crazy it actually is. I know that things have been moving so quickly for everybody here at the desk, But let's take a moment and pause that this is a shocking turn of events. Theodore Roosevelt, London B. Johnson, and now Joe Biden. You know, the three presidents who meaningfully could have run. I guess George Washington too, meaningfully could have run for another term, and choosing not to do so is a stunning admission, at least in the two cases of LBJ. In here, I could not win. I

am not the best standard bearer. And I know you've waited on this too, but I can't tell you how

annoyed I was reading all this hit. What a stunning and heroic There's no heroism in dodging the primary, and you know by your own incompetence and arrogance agreeing to an early debate, then being forced out by Democratic primary elites, not actually Democratic voters, who then you have the anointing of your vice president that nobody's actually cast any real votes here before you're even going into the convention, So it might be as anti democratic as a process as

it is. I am glad that he's gone. I mean honestly, even watching that, I was cringing the entire time. I said, this man needs to go today, Like this is an urgent national security crisis. Now, he continued throughout it, saying, Oh, I still am up for the job. I'm gonna continue the world. I'm like, dude, you got to go. Like his decline just in the last two months is out of control, just truly stunning.

Speaker 1

So, to be honest with you, I felt like a sense of relief watching it that I didn't have to like hold my breath as much from at least there's a short time frame left for this guy to be president of the United States. And I suspect that a lot of Democrats felt the same way because this was a short this was twelve minutes off of teleponpt Like this should be a gimme for any replacement level politician

out there. And still it's tortured. Still, there were times where he's struggling to get the words out, struggling to read the teleprompter, and so you know, at the same time, he's not saying anything about the real reasons he left. Number One, that he was absolutely pressured out, dragged, kicking and screaming to this decision. It was only when he realized that Pelosi, Obama and co. Were not going to relent. In her words, we can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way. That he

finally gives up the ghost. So he's not acknowledging that. He's certainly not acknowledging the fact that his decline became so manifestly clear that you had an overwhelming majority of Democratic voters who were like, dude, come on, hang it up.

So none of that is outwardly acknowledged, and yet it clearly hangs over this speech, in the quality of his voice at this point, in the energy level of the delivery, in the inability, even in a short speech like this that he clearly, you know, spent days preparing for, to deliver it smoothly with any sort of life and vitality, even though it went unspoken, those things were all very clear.

I mean, obviously, this is his attempt to try to define his legacy, right, This is his attempt to lean into the story of his great selflessness and heroism, which is preposterous because if you truly were this self sacrificing person who cares first and foremost about defeating Donald Trump, even if you, if you accept that frame, he has put his party in a very very difficult position in order to do that because while we'll get to the polls,

Kamala Harris already performed better than he is, she is still one of the weaker candidates that Democrats could put forward. And so not only did you forestall did you completely block any sort of a democratic primary process that would have enabled Democrats to evaluate their choices to side for themselves who would be the strongest candidate to go up against Donald Trump. But then you anoint perhaps the second

weakest candidate to go up against Trump. So, even by your own match of like it's all just about preserving democracy defeating Donald Trump returned to normalcy, even by that metric, you have done so much damage to your own parties and your own stated cause. And then, of course, I mean the atrocities in Gaza go without saying in terms of this being a great moral, compassionate, selfless blah blah blah. But you know, even by his own standards, he has dealt his party such an incredible blow.

Speaker 2

The party, the blow, the country a blow too. It's genuinely dishonest and insane that you were functioning at this level that the people around you in betrayal. It is a betrayal of everything. I mean and if you continue. For people who watch the speech, he said very clearly, I believe that I have a legacy that I could run for another term. He's still to this day is not accepting his own limitations. I mean, the arrogance of this man is just so unperilous. Part of the reason

I really didn't ever believe he would drop out. I guess what I didn't factor in was the level of effort that Nancy Pelosi is yea and the donors actually were willing to exercise. It's also interesting too, because there's some differences I think between the Republicans and others where the party institutions in the Democratic Party, when they want to be are very strong. When keeping Bernie Sanders out, they're like, hey, this is not happening period. We will

rig this thing til the end. Same here anointing Kamala, I mean, Crystal, how nuts is it that they didn't even have a semblance of an open primary. You basically had Kamala and then boom, it was like all these members of Congress, Nancy Pelosi came out Obama, a few others haven't done so, but so many others were pressured into where why is why? Wasn't a Gavin Newsomb or a Josh Shapiro or an Andy Basheer or any of these folks even allowed to throw their hat in the ring.

I mean, I personally, if I were the Democrats, I'm picking Andy Basheer at Gaffin. I mean, I think both those guys could win by a couple of percentage points if they wanted to. Kamala. I mean, I'm still putting her around forty percent right now. We'll talk about this throughout the show. Definitely better than the ten percent I'd give Biden. But I mean, you know, do you.

Speaker 1

Want to go all in with a forty percent hand?

Speaker 2

I don't. I certainly don't.

Speaker 1

There is no doubt that, just judging based on the data past performance, that Democrats have many stronger candidates that they could put in. And I mean, let's not pretend like an open convention is like a democratic process. But at least there's some ability for people to evaluate and put pressure on those delegates and some sort of transparent process.

I mean, I think it's a couple things like, Yes, the party apparatus in the Democratic Party has shown itself to be more coordinated and more powerful than the Republican Party apparatus. But the other thing is, like, if we think about, you know, an attempt to displace Trump, Trump has a genuine, gross rates grassroots movement behind him. Joe Biden does it. He never has, like he's there because of elites. And they decided to pull his card and that was that because there wasn't going to be any

sort of outcry from the people or whatever. None of the powerful politicians behind the scenes, Pelosi and Obama primarily, they had nothing to fear from going hard against him, and he had nothing to fall back on. So, yeah, there's numbers out there now ninety percent of the public, including roughly similar numbers of Democrats, Republicans, independents, are glad

he stepped down ninety percent. So you know, if it was if you can imagine the situation unfolding with Trump and they attempted in twenty sixteen to do something kind of similar and obviously it didn't work and it would provoke a massive, massive backlash. I think you also have a situation where your average Democratic base voter. And by the way, I think that this isn't just on the

Democratic side. I think there is an openness to anti democracy and authoritarianism that has taken hold in the public because of their sense, whether you're on the right or the left, of the existential nature of the stakes right now. But I think your average democratic voter has become very comfortable with the idea of ditching democracy in service of saving democracy, which obviously is insane and blatantly hypocritical and goes against you know, the your suppose and believe in democracy.

But I think they have been persuaded of that case, which to me is deeply sad. But it's why you know Republicans who are trying to pitch a fit over the process right now and oh, this is anti democratic or the aocs of the world. First of all, where were you when any sort of actual democratic process was blocked from unfolding. He didn't care. You obviously didn't care. So you know, the notion that you're upset now that Biden was removed by anti democratic means please, you don't

care about democracy either. The time for those concerns was a while ago, and there wasn't a public outcry about the lack of a democratic process. Even I had a majority of democratic voters who said they would like to have choices but at the end of the day they were like, I guess we're just going to take what we're given.

Speaker 2

I'll tell you what too, I'll eat it. I'll eat a proverbial stock here in terms of being wrong, what I usually say debates don't matter.

Speaker 1

Well, there's a tail, right, there are exceptions to the rule.

Speaker 2

So if we have learned anything from this is have the debates even if nine eight percent of the time they don't matter. Could we not have a single debate? I mean the conventions what we have a couple of weeks. It only takes a couple of days to put this thing together. Get Kamal on the stage, get Gavin, get job, get everybody up there, the open thing, and let it fly.

Speaker 1

Let's see, let's actually see what happens.

Speaker 2

And if you can't do that in the same way that Joe Biden's presencey was destroyed whenever he was okay on a teleprompter but fell apart under challenging questioning, what lessons should we draw from that, folks, is that we have to have the process that at least the very basics and the minimums to vet the person and allow it to come and then look if she wins from there cool, I don't think anybody could be upset about that, but rigging from the very beginning, it's very, very troubling,

right because, as we said, there is a couple of there are two people that will be on. It will be on then Joe Biden for to getting everybody in this situation if Trump wins, but it's also going to be on the powerbrokers and others that didn't call for the quote unquote mini primary. Even Jim Clyburn called for a mini primary recall only two weeks ago, but he didn't immediately comes out and endorses Harris. And I think that's a big mistake. It's a big mistake.

Speaker 1

You know, it's interesting too because Democrats thought that they were protecting themselves by blocking a primary process, an actual democratic primary process back you know, after the midterms, when such a thing would have really started up in earnest.

They thought they were protecting themselves. But the reality of the situation is they incredibly they created an incredibly difficult situation, incredibly difficult landscape where now you know, Kamala Harris comes in hobbled behind the eight ball, She's got momentum right now, like she's doing well, she's doing better on the polls than Biden. But there's no doubt in my mind they

could have come out with a stronger candidate. And if you had had Joe Biden having to debate primary contenders back, you know, much earlier, and the possibility of an actual Democratic primary process playing out, they wouldn't be in this situation. The other thing, you know, with Kamala Harris, now, I still think even if you had this mini primary or however you want to phrase it, going into the convention, all this is obviously moot point because she's in. She's in,

it's done and dusted. But I think she would be very likely to come out the winner of that process. If you look at the polls, you know, right after Biden dropped, you had a pretty strong consensus from Democrats that Kamala was their top choice. She's the sitting vice president.

She has a lot of advanta advantages going in, but she would also have additional legitimacy conferred on her, and she would be strengthened by having to go through that process and you know, get sharp again and be a little better thinking on her feet, and those sorts of things that she struggled with in the past, So I think it's I do think it's a mistake for Democrats.

I don't know that it will you know, it doesn't end their chances of winning in the fall, but there's no doubt they could have gone forward with a stronger candidate that Kamala Harris, given her how we've seen her perform in the past, given the fact that she is tied to an administration that has been unpopular, and she is implicated in a tremendous cover up of Joe Biden's decline that is a betrayal legitimately is a betrayal of the American people, and so all those things give her

a tough tougher hand to work from going into the question.

Speaker 2

Now, you know, people forget this, but there was a real primary back in two thousand, Bill Bradley, that former NBA player, and I forget New Jersey. That's right, he was from New Jersey. He challenged Al Gore. Al Gore won, by the way overwhelmingly, He won like eighty percent of the vote, but that mattered because Al could say, Hey, I actually challenged and won this nomination. I'm just getting anointed because I'm the former Vice President Hubert Humphrey also

ran a real primary process in nineteen sixty eight. Now would he have beat RFK No, I don't think so at all. But at the very least he was able to coalesce the party to try and bring some consensus going in with Vietnam and all the other tearing apart of the process, and there were civil rights and all of that.

Speaker 1

And I think he emerged strong enough for it.

Speaker 2

Now, he ended up going on to lose, but there was a lot that was going into that, and if you look at the popular vote and others, he came relatively close. He could have won the election quite easily. Democracy and democratic action like debates, primaries and others. They there's a certain anti fragility to it in that it creates and stress tests you up to the top. And I've never actually believed more in that system than I have now, just to show where I didn't think it mattered.

But we've never had an eighty one year old who's on the verge of dementia running before, and that is

literally what the process is designed. Another thing I think Americans have been robbed of is that I think it was George W. Bush and Obama, who both echoes something similar where they said, one of the benefits of the eighteen to twenty month campaign is that everything will come out everything in that you will be tested, you will have your debates, you will deal with the press, you will deal with the swings and the ups and the downs, and that the process of self prepares you. We're not

getting that with kam Law And it's not fair. How many debates are we going to get with her and Trump? Maybe one? Maybe one up two if we're lucky. No, we should have five. Actually, because you're so late in the process. More so, we haven't had the ability to stress this woman for real, in a real campaign process. If I'm her, I'm not debating very much and I'm just going to stick to the stump. She seems fine in a teleprompter and she does pretty well, you know,

for donor calls and all that. But I don't think that's fair to America to have a very little amount of time when Trump. I mean, if anything, he's been out there for almost two years now and he's running, and so there is an inherent unfairness I think to Americans here. But the problem is is that voters, as you said correctly. They are very willing to just sit and eat it right now because they hate Trump or

they hate you know, KAMMLA or whatever. They'll just sit there and be like, it's cool, I'm fine with it, and we should get away with that. If she loses, I would hope the Democrats learn that lesson, I really do.

Speaker 1

What do you make they want? Spoiler lie? I know they won't, which some people were there. Some people their fear of democracy and their desire to control everything from the top down ends up really damaging their own political prospects. Will they learn the lists? Of course they won't, but they should. They should have already learned that lesson, just from the fact that they put themselves in this horrible position from forestalling any kind of an earlier primary process

when this really should have unfolded. I wonder what you make of the fact there's a lot of like I think New York Posts was reporting some rumors about Obama and why he hasn't endorsed Kamala now. Their claim is basically like, he doesn't think she can win. He's mad that Joe endorsed her on the way out, and so he you know, was sort of like holding off out of his anger and hope that there would be some

ability to have a different process. I don't know if I really buy all of that, because at this point the writing's on the wall, like he's clearly going to endorse her. And also, if he really wanted things to unfold that way, he could have said, he could have done a lot more to put forward like you have to put forward an alternative.

Speaker 2

I'm not sure I buy it either. That said, I trust out of all of them, I'm going to trust Obama.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 2

This is a man who actually got himself elected president.

Speaker 1

On the other hand, he's the one who anointed Hillary and so when his political instincts outside of himself have not been that.

Speaker 2

Great, I could waffle it either way. I would just say, there's a Napoleon alleged quote, if you're gonna take Vienna, then take Fienna. So in my opinion, if you're gonna kick Biden out, then do it, then go. If you're gonna kick Biden out, let's go for broke and let's win. That's what with the mindset would be. I don't know why they chose this crazy half measure. So if I were Obama, I'd say all right, Well, if we're getting rid of Obama, if we're getting rid of Biden, well

then let's let's put somebody in who can win. Let's put in a Gavin, let's put it in the gretch, and let's put in a Shapiro. And even here, all four of those people would run more than Kamala Harris. I mean even Gretchen Whitmer. And by the way, I'm not fans of any of these people. I don't like any of these people, but I can read a poll and I can understand too where that breadth of fresh air, that ability to I mean, look at the enthusiasm that

hasn't been engendered from Kamala. Now imagine it times fifty. I think for somebody who literally came out of left field, I think it would be even more. For Democrats, people would be excited, especially if you were able to put a ticket out there. So I think it was a huge missed opportunity. But you know, I don't know, do we go to the next element.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think Jean Pierre doing her hearing.

Speaker 2

Here's Karen Jean Pierre being asked why if Biden is going to resign or if Biden is not going to run. Why doesn't he just resign? How can we have any confidence that he can even stay in the job. Here's her word, solid of an answer.

Speaker 5

The President believes that it's best for the country that he not being in the oval office for another four years. How can you assure the American people that he's up to be in the office for the next six months.

Speaker 6

Well, first I would say is that and I've heard these suggestions out there. This is not an answer to you. This is an answer to the suggestions that I've had have heard about him resigning from office. We believe and any suggestion of that note is ridiculous. It is not what we believe the president. I just laid out what the president has been able to do in almost four years, and it's been successful. He's been able to do more, again than any president has been able to do in two terms.

Speaker 1

He's been able to do that more in one term.

Speaker 6

And he wants to finish the job that he started and bring more historic results for the American people. And look, he didn't step down from campaigning or from running because he didn't believe he can serve in.

Speaker 1

A second term.

Speaker 6

That is not why, and what I would say is I just finished my opening. I would say, tune in, tune into what he has to say tonight, and he will lay that out for three you all and the American people as to why he made that decision.

Speaker 2

So yeah, that's their line. It's not that he couldn't run, and it's not that he if he was elected, he couldn't serve. It's just that he decided not to run because everyone said that you can't run and you can't serve, and he can't win.

Speaker 5

Oh.

Speaker 2

I mean, the tortured logic of this is just absurd. And I don't know. I mean, at a certain point, what the next six to seven months are or is it five months? I think until January, right, something like that. Let's go with that.

Speaker 1

Nobody checked my overuntil January.

Speaker 2

Or yes, until he was actually gonna present until January twenty eight. Yeah, I mean, this is like an Edith Wilson situation. Honestly, like just at the very end of Drow Wilson's second term, where he's basically totally incapacitated, all the people around him are running the entire government. Every once in a while, the old man will show up, like today for his meeting with BB I mean, his old instincts will show up, be like, oh we love you, Bbe,

you know something like that. Yeah, no nobody stood, now did you in the world will be safe if it wouldn't for you personally, BB, And everyone's gonna be like, oh my god, And that's it. That's who are who's running our country. So let's all hope and pray that everything works out for the next till January, because I'm worried. I'm frankly more worried today than ever before in terms of if he's truly unshackled. I mean, what are his real instincts here on Ukraine on Gaza? I have no idea.

And that's actually, frankly a more terrifying concept.

Speaker 1

I think we've seen his true instincts on Ukraine and Gaza. And that's the point, is like, that's it's already been disastrous because I am very much of the view that he doesn't have anything really to do with domestic policy. He really doesn't care about the host policy at all. You can't like drag him to talk to about it. Kicking Instraight doesn't even know his own housing policy that he was floating. If he was going to continue his reelection.

He's checked out on domestic policy and whoever the agency heads or his top aids or whatever are running the show there. He has kept his grip on foreign policy with regard to Ukraine and NATO and Israel in particular, and it has been it's been disastrous. It's been utterly disastrous. And a part of that does come from this rigidity of his old age and inability to process new information and a new landscape, et cetera, and weakness and feebleness

when it comes to his dealings with Benjamin Netniahu. So it's already had a very damaging effect. And the other thing I would say, yeah, I'm curious your view on this. Sober again to the oh, he's such a hairines blah blah blah. I actually think that if he resigned, No,

that's heroic, that would be. That would be And if you're goal is for Kamala Harris to win, I think that would benefit her too, because one of the challenges of any candidate, but especially a black female candidate, can we see her in the role and you know the fact she's vice perriendent. Okay, that helps, but let's be honest.

They've basically hit her for three years because they were afraid after the less Hold interviewed, and it goes so well of what she would say, which I have to say, seeing her now and how effective she's been, especially since the Biden debate happened, I think that was a mistake because she's better than they seemed to think that she was.

But in any case, she hasn't been in front of the public wearing that mantle of vice president in all these very public meetings with fourid heads of states, etc. Which is what gives the vice president typically such an edge in electoral contest because even though they weren't the president, people kind of can easily see them in that role. She hasn't really had the benefit of that. So if you really wanted to set her up for success, if you really wanted to be some listen like, you know,

past the torch, et cetera. He would resign now on a reflection of his own decline and inability to do the job, and out of a desire to you know, allow people to imagine her in the role and to test the metal of her in this capacity as well.

But obviously he's not going to do that, So we have a lot of polling to indicate early early days what this matchup is going to look like, and the TLDR from all of the polls that have come out, which there have been a number that have come out since the Biden dropout, but only in select few where they were in the field wholly after the dropout. Basically, what it looks like is Kamala Harris is doing better than Biden, but she is still not winning the race.

It's either a toss up or she's slightly behind Donald Trump. CNN had a really interesting poll. There's just go and put this up on the screen while I talk about it. Part of why this pole in particular was so interesting is because they pulled a lot of the same people.

They pulled like the same panel that they had pulled previously when it was Biden, So you could truly see was their movement even among these same individuals, and there was Trump in The overall number is at forty nine percent support among these registered voters, Harris is at forty six, so again still losing, although I believe within the margin of error close there too, but that is closer than an earlier contest which found Trump with a six point

margin over Biden. Keep this up on the screen. Let me just talk through this. So when you dig down into the demographic groups, you could see the areas where Kamala improves on Biden's performance. She is doing better among young voters, she picks up eleven points. She's doing better among black voters, she picks up sixteen points. And she's doing better among female voters, she picks up five points.

Now I believe she also sees some erosion among those like older white voters who have been riding with Biden. And so we'll talk a little bit more about this in a moment. But this represents kind of a reversion to the expected Democratic coalition versus rumbarsacer We were looking at these polls where like Biden is doing terribly with young people, but old people usually vote Republican or voting

for the Democrat. It sort of reverses some of those stranger elements that had manifested themselves when the contest was Trump versus Biden.

Speaker 2

I don't know, there's so I think I'm just going to put my flag down and just say it's too early because America has not seen enough yet. All they've seen is the name we haven't seen the speeches. We haven't really frankly even seen much of Trump, right, we just had the R and C. I heard the speech was long. That's what a lot of friends told me.

Speaker 1

When it was very long.

Speaker 2

They're like, well, it was good for the first ten minutes.

Speaker 1

I was like, well, how long was it.

Speaker 2

They're like, oh, an hour and twenty. I was like, oh, man, okay, I think it.

Speaker 1

Was more than that. Actually that's been felt.

Speaker 2

Like I saw statistic as the longest speech is nineteen fifty five, which is certainly something. So okay. So we've got Donald Trump, and Trump is basically back, I would say, to the mean, just the last night, I believe he was like I said, I was going to be nice, but can I not be nice tonight? And I was like, here he is, he's back. So Trump in advance, let's see what how they're going to react, because we haven't

fully gotten the Kamala stuff. They were very very much hoping that Kamala or that Joe Biden would not drop out of the race. That was their hope and their prayer. Yeah, and I mean they were correct in that assumption. I would say, I'm just back to where I was pre debate for the Democratic chances. So before the debate, I said, I think Biden's got a forty percent shot, and I think Trump's got about sixty. I think I'm back to that now after the debate, I would have said Trump

has a ninety percent shot. Yeah, and you know, so, look, it's better. It's definitely better. I would rather be Harris and I would be Biden. There's still a lot stronger Democratic candidates, and there are a lot comes down to choices, as in, what are the coalitions, who are we trying to win? If I am them, I'm not going to get pie in the sky and crazy. I'm going for two hundred and seventy one electrawlve votes and that's it, and that's all I care about. I don't even care

about the popular vote. I'm going for Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. If we win Georgia, that's great, that's great. But I am going all in on those three. So that's going to talk a lot about how their VP selection is. Now, VP selection usually doesn't matter. I think it will matter much more in this case in terms of who you pick and what you're trying to do. But I think it also comes back to who she is and what

she's trying to do. Her case against Trump, her strongest case goes back to a so called cop days and prosecutor. I actually think there's something to it. We've always said here, you know, for a lot of normies being a quote unquote convicted felon, it's a problem, like, let's be honest, it is a problem that's suburban moderate voter. I also think the row row row your vote is going to be more salient than ever before. So there are two choices.

This will either be the immigration economy election in a Trump win, or it will be the abortion and economy election and there will be a Kamala Harris win. Both are actually quite narrow and how they will look on the electoral map. But if I am Kamala, it's all abortion all the time to bat our economy. They will battle it out. Trump generally has the edge on the economy. He's got a lot of people have very good feelings

about the economy from back in twenty nineteen. Kamala also has the noose around her neck quite literally, of Biden inflation and of a lot of the policy that most people objectively did not feel like. Things were going so well. That's part of the reason. If I were the Democrats, I would have picked somebody else, because I don't want somebody with that baggage who could present a real thing. But I want to see how she goes up on the air. She's got a ton of money. Now, she's

got a ton of enthusiasm. Yeah, that's huge. I want to capitalize the hell out of that, and I want from them. I'm just going all in on abortion. Where we're running the twenty twenty two playbook and we're going all the way to the end.

Speaker 1

She is a much so her strengths as a candidate are She's a much more credible messenger on abortion. She's comfortable talking about it.

Speaker 2

Yeah she is.

Speaker 1

Joe Biden, he didn't want to talk about this, but he doesn't even agree really on the issue. He just you know, I mean, he's always been basically anti choice, pro life Democrat up until there are recent times when that was no longer sustainable, very uncomfortable talking about it, not credible on the issue. Kamon aras much much better messenger there. And our gender is a real asset there.

Speaker 2

I think that's actually where it is a real app Yeah.

Speaker 1

It's a genuine asset. And you know, we'll get into some of the attacks, but you know, the one of the better attacks. I think that their main owners like oh, radical California, et cetera, et cetera. It lands a little bit different when the culture war landscape now in the most dominant issue is one where the majority of the voters agree with the war liberal take. So it's not as effective a hit as it could be in a different culture war landscape than we're seeing right now. I

agree with you. I think it's too early to say where we are. Vis of you, the polls the most hopeful case for Democrats, and I think there's a lot to this. By the way, is the big thing that was holding Biden back was just he's two frigids old. I brought it up a million times. Those were clouds. So we did where the number one thing people said old. And you look at every single Democrat running in the country,

and they are outperforming him. Whether they're a great candidate or a bad candidate, or a middle of the road candidate, whether they're progressive or moderator, wherever they are, they are all outperforming Joe Biden. And so the hope is that you know, yes, Kamala has her weaknesses, but maybe just having a sort of like replacement level decent okay, can formulate a sentence, can deliver a teleprompter speech candidate, that

may be enough. And I don't think that's crazy. I think the data actually would indicate that probably is where this election is the reason I would say to hold on these polls and see where things shake down in a couple of weeks. This has been an insane few weeks of politics. Insane, like I think you would struggle to find another historic period where as much has unfolded

in so short a time period. So on the one hand, you have Kamala Harris what the Trump people put on a Mama saying she's having her honeymoon period, right, And

I think that's true. I think people are projecting on her, including lefties, including the K I like everybody is projecting on her, who's left of center, whatever they want her to be, right, that is going to come into contact with reality at some point, and she's common here, She's going to have some moment that's awkward and not good and shows her not put in a riddle that those things are going to happen. So I do think she's in a honeymoon period. True, Trump is also in a

sort of honeymoon period post assassination attempt and post RNC. Right, yes, the speech was long or or whatever, but parties candidates almost always get a bump coming out of their own convention, and Trump has his approval ratings right now are the highest they've like almost ever been between the you know, the way he looks strong coming out of the assassination attempt and the rally round the flag sort of a dynamic there, and coming out of his own parties convention,

et cetera. So he also is in a sort of honeymoon period. So you know, once you get in to the slog of the campaign season, how do these things shake out? And the truth of the matter is, we really don't know at this point.

Speaker 2

Period of uncertainty today is just as high. I was talking with the crew and I said, this is probably the craziest twenty five day period or whatever since nine eleven. Now, nine eleven was definitely crazier. Don't worry. But my point is that a paradigm shift, I mean, everything literally changed. Historic events happened day after day with almost very little

time of reflection. Right. Part of the reason I'm actually kind of happy I wasn't there is I actually got to sit and think, and I was like, this is crazy. I was like, this is this is actually what it was like to get married or and take some time off or whatever on nine seventeen or after nineteen sixty eight.

You know, my sympathy to all those people at that time because you're just sitting there and thinking, you know, especially for somebody who's success with history like me, and I'm going back to sixty eight in my head, and I'm going back to nineteen twelve or whatever in my head and thinking about third party candidates and the convention and all of the But then, you know, overlaying social media on top of that, the assassination attempt, and I mean,

have we really grappled with the fact that Trump was inches from death, Like not really and what what the you know, the true decision tree from that looks like. And then on top of old news, it literally is already old news. I mean, he's already a back out there, he's already on campaign trails, like barely even mentioning it. I mean, to a certain extent, there's a strength of democracy, right is that everyone's kind of just like, yeah, that was crazy. Hope we create some security, but you know,

the show must go on. I think that's good. But let's also sit and must ruminate a little bit and say, wow, we have a new candidate here for president. Literally everything is on the table. That's part of the reason why there is a honeymoon period, because we don't know a lot about this lady. I mean, she ran in a machine state in California. It takes some positions, but not really you know, as a center let's be honest, like you don't really do much. Anyways, she wasn't there that

long and then she was the vice president. She's been in a closet for three years. Last time a star on the stage was during the Democratic debate. Didn't do so well then, So it's like, now, what you know, who are you? And I think that's a real question too for Kamala And this is part of the reason that I think one of her political strengths. I don't think this lady believes it basically anything, And actually I

think that's to a benefit. You know, where you can become the chameleon for the moment of what you need to be well. And that is where I really want to see. Does she have good instincts or not? What are you going for? What are you going to try? And do you have to navigate some very tricky problems here? We've got Israel, Gaza, We've got abortion. How do we talk about abortion? How are we going to quote unquote prosecute the case against Trump? Are we gonna do it

with the cringeway. Are we gonna do it the way that a lot of normies do right this little bit of overlap, or we're going all in on MSNBC democracy stuff. Are we looking at our polling? Are we gonna make smart choices and our candidates now there's a countervailing evidence everywhere. Are we gonna pick good people? It's one of the most important things. She's had crazy staff turnover. One of the things I think against Kamala is this lady as bad judgment whenever it comes to staff.

Speaker 1

Her campaign, you remember all those stories was a mess?

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, total mess. Well, her staff is the highest staff turnover in the West wing. So I mean these are not good things, you know, for a chief executive. And they also tell us about what it means whenever we start to run, you know, in the actual election too, and who were annoying to who are going to pick? What's our process look like? These things really matter at the highest level.

Speaker 1

In some ways, this contradicts a little bit of what we said earlier about how Democrats would be in a better position if they had actually had a democratic I still believe that because I think they would have had a chance of picking a better candidate than Kamala Harris. But if you were going to end up with Kamala Harris, this is kind of an ideal scenario for her, I totally agree with because the short time frame benefits her. Right. Obama's magic was that ability to maintain the illusion of

I will be whoever you want me to be. That's who I am.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Do I think Kamala is Obama level talent?

Speaker 5

No?

Speaker 1

I mean Obama was a you know, historic generational level political talent. Whatever you think of him, And you guys know, I'm not a big fan, but in terms of political talent, this man is very talented. He was able to continue and maintain that mystique even for even really into his presidency and into his real life.

Speaker 2

Hey, the man won all that actually and that is.

Speaker 1

A remarkable talent and skill. Does she have the skill? Now? Can she maintain the sort of magic trick of illusion for three months? Maybe in a very tightly you know, going out and giving her speeches and very tightly controlled you know, they're not going to put her out to the wolves in terms of interviews. They're going to send her out to friendly people, et cetera, et cetera. So

there's that. There's also the fact, as you said, where did she fail in the primary part of it was she was a terrible manager, and she could not put a campaign team together that could stay together, and she could not settle on a message. She doesn't have to do that. She has a campaign and she's taking over the Biden campaign team, right She's taking on the campaignage. So the HQ, the money's coming out, everything is just

like campaign in a box. Here you go. They've already decided what their messaging is and it's not hard to figure out they're going to do basically like these people are fringe, extreme, dangerous and abortion. And she's also trying to lean into some like you know of the Biden is like I'm going to be a candidate for the middle class she's talking about that as well. She already has a message set because that was the other knock on her campaign. Legitimate is that like she changed her

campaign slogans every season. Remember when he first campaign it said that is every season we had a new campaign slogan. So she eliminates the risk of that, like this is your message campaign in a box, Ready, set go. So I think all of those things are are to her benefit now. I just talked about how she's outperforming where Joe Biden was with young voters Israel, Gaza. How she handles that is one of the big big question marks. Everyone's reading the tea leaves right now, they're reading the

BB visit. We'll talk about that. The VP pick could have ramifications there. People are giving her a lot of grace right now, but even so, she's still underperforming where a Democrat should be with regard to young voters, and there is a lot of risk that she could screw up the You know, right now gen Z is like in love with her and meeting her like crazy, et cetera, et cetera. There's a lot of risk there that that

relationship could turn sour. So harry Onnsen broke down some of the data herealistic elisia what he had to say.

Speaker 7

So, I want to take a look at Trump versus Democratic margin. Just remind folks where we were at the end of the twenty twenty campaign. Joe Biden won voters under the age of thirty five by twenty one points. What do we see with Kamala Harris. Well, she's still ahead, but the margin here is significantly less than what we saw with Joe Biden back in twenty twenty. She's up

by just nine points. You may make the argument that was better than Biden was doing before he got out, but compared to that democratic baseline where Democrats have historically and presidential elections at least this century, been carrying that young vote by twenty or more percentage once, she is way down from that. So if this is unique support among young voters, I would like to know what non unique support? Is it even worse than this?

Speaker 2

Is she doing better than Biden?

Speaker 7

Was this she was doing slightly better? Maybe Biden was up by you know, like six on average or five. This is maybe slightly better, But this is not game changing stuff. Mister Burnma, all right, what have we seen in terms of motivation?

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 7

So you know, the other thing is we talk about vote choice, right, but let's also talk about motivation, right, because it's not just who you would support, it's whether or not you'd come out to the polls. And this I think is rather interesting. Do Democrats say they're more motivated to turn out after Biden left the race? Well, we do see a significant portion of Democrats who say yes,

thirty nine percent. The thing I was interested in was it disproportionately younger voters who said that they were more likely to turn out or more motivated to turn out. And what we see here is it's forty two percent. Not a big difference between forty two and thirty nine percent. So this idea again that the vice president has unique potential to dig in and get young voters to turn out, John, it's just not there in the numbers, despite all the Internet memes that are going around.

Speaker 1

So still a lot of room, you could say, still a lot of room to grow. Maybe if she, you know, continues to do improve her position with with young voters and make some savvy moves, or people just you know, really decide like I can vote for Trump. It seems like right now some of what's happened. R Junior's numbers have fallen off. The third party numbers have fallen off. Like people who were disgusted with Joe Biden over Gaza are giving Kamala Harris a chance. Some of that is

going on. Or they were discussed with Joe Biden just because it was so frikin old, and now they're like, all right, well, this lady's not really old, so this is great, but there's still a lot of question marks there about whether she can truly put back together like the Obama style coalition that would be more her strength. You know, you said something about if you were her, you would go for Pennsylvania, you would just like go

all in on the industrial Midwest. I'm not one hundred percent sure because the demographics in those states they were good for Biden because he outperformed with like older white voters. Kamala's got a different got a different coalition mix, and you know she already we're seeing some numbers that show she's more in contention in those sun Belt states where Joe and Georgia in particular, where Joe Biden was not

really and they basically all but written it off. So again, I think it we have to see Holving shake off shake to see where her best tell you what potential path.

Speaker 2

My real thing is that if you look at the economic approval in Georgia and in Arizona, Biden Harris was underwater by some twenty five points, and I just don't think that's possible to come back from it. Sure, you know, are there a lot more black voters in Georgia who might be able to come out and save her? Yeah, certainly. I mean, And look, you've got Warnock and as Off that are barnstorming the state for you. I wouldn't counter out,

but I'm not going all in. And so when you look at the math and you look at the margins too, we have some state by state polling, maybe we can actually put this in afterwards. I'm just going to reference this is a new Hill Emerson Pole. It kind of bears out what I'm saying. If you look at Wisconsin, this has just came out this morning. They were in the field after the Biden drop out. Trump and Harris

are tied in Wisconsin. Trump is up by five in Arizona, He's up by two in Georgia, up by one in Michigan, and up by two in Pennsylvania. The tightest margin is in the industrial Midwest. You've got whit Merge. You can try and hold down the fourth there. In Michigan, you don't have the Gaza sink that you used to maybe, you know, if I were rum all away from it, you know, honestly, try not to even take a position that's gonna be tough. But you know, if anybody could

do it, it could be her. If you picked Shapiro or somebody like that for Pennsylvania. He's enormously popular governors.

Speaker 1

The Gaza thing, that's sure problem for her there.

Speaker 2

How many people Arabs and dearborn are you really going to vote on the VP pick like, look like it's complicated. We'll see. I think she's gonna get more grace no matter what.

Speaker 1

Right, we'll talk about that more of the vpoplet right, Yes.

Speaker 2

We get Shapiro there, we can hold down Pennsylvania. You've only got to win it by point one. That's the only thing that actually matters. And then say Wisconsin. Biden was tied with Trump in Wisconsin, so Wisconsin has always been I mean, remember this, what did he win it by a couple ten thousand votes or something? In twenty sixteen, it was close, so you know already you had Biden roughly there. So if I'm Harris, I'm feeling more confident we can get some people to turn out in Milwaukee.

Uh and you could try, you know, things there and we'll just see how things go. Whereas Georgia the Sun Belt, I just think the Sun Belt economically, there has never been more pessimism the Sun Belt today. And if you think too about who these new voters are, all the people who moved to Arizona, Georgia, Texas, and all these people are all blue refugees from New York and California, They're all going to be voting red. I think at

least they're going to be voting red. And so I wouldn't I wouldn't go all in there, but I need to see too some polling. I mean, I think Georgia. Georgia is the one state where I think it was totally lost nor Biden and is winnable now under Harris.

Speaker 1

But remember too, because she does better so far. Again, this is all so early, but she also appears to do better among Latina's. Let's put this next piece up on the screen, just because one of the questions is how much, Okay, how much of Biden's lag was his policies and how much was just his age very undefined question. And then the other question is how much are Republicans going to be successful in tying Kamala to Biden?

Speaker 2

Right?

Speaker 1

And they want to do that, They're already trying to do that so far. The early indicators, the early data is that while Harris is seen as a liberal, she does enjoy perception advantages over Biden. Even when you look at the issues, they view her as closer to their views than Biden on inflation by ten percentage points, government spending by ten percentage points, immigration, I'm actually surprised by this one by fifteen percentage points, abortion by eight percentage points,

and even corruption plus thirteen. We can go to the next slide. This is from this same analysis of where Kamala Harris performs well on the issues and where she struggles.

It's not going to surprise you. The best issue for her net of trust Harris over Trump is reproductive rights than climate and environment, improving the healthcare system, reducing racial tension in the country, making sure everyone can get a good education, protecting social security like sort of a typical list of liberal priorities, and then at the bottom those same issues that dogged Joe Biden, securing the border, immigration, police, and crime, although she's only minus two on that, which

a little bit surprised about there as interesting. Maybe it goes back to her kut mala cut maladay.

Speaker 2

We talk about any credibility she still has on that one.

Speaker 1

But in any case, you know, I thought the comparison with Biden was really interesting to me that people had separate views from her, at least at this point than they had on you know, with Biden on inflation, et cetera. But I also am fairly persuaded that the biggest issue Joe Biden had wasn't really an issue problem. It was an age problem.

Speaker 2

I think age it's like bone marrow. It was at the center of everything with the conversation with Biden. Now that said, I mean, the economy is still bet like I think, it's bad for the average middle class person. So that's why I would never have picked the incumbent vice president. I want to pick somebody from a more dynamic and an interesting state that genuinely understands some of the middle class like economic concerns, and I want to pick somebody who's got a real track record of at

least trying to work on that. I've seen Kyle talk about Tim Waltz. I mean, these are people that I would really want to work for, right and I would really want to I would want to put that forward because that is a contrast to the Trump, you know era, and to a real vision also post twenty twenty four, where with Kamala it's like, what are you gonna do? Biden, Plus it's like, okay, I mean, look great, but that's

not anything all that interesting. And so for her, I think it's I think it's just like I said earlier, it's gonna be the immigration economy election or it's going to be the abortion economy election, and it's gonna be a slog and it's gonna be a battle to the

death between those two. And the definition wars, I mean the amount of money that's going to be spent on Kamala crime, Kamala borders are Kamala open border on the Republican side, That's what I would do too if I was going up against her, because it is also probably the area where they genuinely disagree the most. And then you flip it on abortion. And you know, you've got JD who's got pass comments on abortion, and then you've got Trump who literally had Roe versus Wade overturned and

appointed those people. That is as good of a contrast as I could ask for. And that's also where you can make it. There's a famous you know, Barry Goldwater quote, the time for choosing that moment. This is a time for choosing on those two issues. So whichever you can get people to care the most about and define the other. On economy, I think they're kind of washed, frankly for both because you've decent hits against both. You know, Trump

on TCJA and extension, but he didn't have inflation. Kamala you've got you know, whatever she's promising middle class agenda. I don't know how much you believe that, but maybe and then you but you've also got inflation. On those two, I think they relatively cancel each other out. So those are the two issues that I think are define this elet.

Speaker 1

I would I would throw another one into the mix. I mean, the midterms turned on the reason there wasn't a red wave, even though all the numbers seem to indicate, like, oh, they've got a big problem on inflation and immigration. It was abortion and it was extremeistly a good point. It was the sense of like, these people are really fringed, they're weird. You know, they're saying stuff that's just out there, and you know, that was what ended up being the

really determining factor in the midterms. And so I think that's what that's what the Democrats are hoping. Those are the still the issues that control and end up being the most persuasive to swing voters, you know, wherever they may live. So I want to move on.

Speaker 2

We do have.

Speaker 1

Let me just show you this Pennsylvania poll real quick. B seven. You already refer to some battleground polling, but this was another poll. This was actually commissioned by Republicans, which is interesting but and it's I think a B rated polster, so not an A rated polster, but still not bad. You got Trump winning, but only by two better than what we've been seeing from Biden recently. You have Bob Casey the Democrat, holding an eight point advantage

over McCormick. Dave McCormick is that his name? The Republican, So again you still still see swing state democrats out performing the top of the ticket, but it's a little better than what they were doing with Biden. It gives them a shot put b eight up on the screen. This was an analysis from Nate Cone over the New York Times, their data guy, how Kamala Harris changes the race. One thing she's it is a good piece. Three things

that he points to. Number one, the original dynamic was Trump being a change candidate Biden being very much not change candidate. Harris, he says, Democrats will have another chance to make the case they can improve the nation's fortunes. For one, she's neither Biden nor Trump. Two figures have been in public life for decades, So she feels like a breath of fashhair. That's my He didn't say that,

I'm saying that. For another, she's not the president. She might be burdened by voters perceptions of mister Biden's record, but she'll have room to distinguish herself. She even has room to argue for a new direction. The other thing he refers to is the return of the usual demographic divide. That some of what we've been talking about is she's returning to more of the Obama coalitional mold, better with young people, better with black voters, better with Latino voters.

And he said, they say the return of issues. You know, with Biden, the whole thing was just about like his age basically. And now there'll be a little bit more space than the conversation for an actual conversation about how these candidates would govern and what that governing agenda would look like. So we may see more talk of that with comm.

Speaker 2

That is the greatest gift that Biden's resignation is gift than Democrats. Was the worst issue, and it was it permeated, like I said, everything, it was the bone marrow. And now when that's gone, I mean, look, it opens up a little bit of space. Now to what extent how are they going to work with that, how are they going to define things. I'm actually quite curious, you know, to see what the moves are in the next couple

of days. But overall, I would say she's played her hand like pretty well from what I've seen so far, there's been a lot of Row versus wide. I think the campaign ad course speech is not bad. I think that the you know, the rally speech from what I've read, or at least of the excerpts and look normal. Her very first ad is now out. It's called Freedom. It's got Beyonce's Freedom or whatever, and it's all about you guessed it, democracy and abortion, which and Trump being a

convicted felon. So the playbook is here. Yeah, and you've got a ton of money. I also think I did we talk about the enthusiasm gap, because that was actually maybe it'd be the biggest change. The biggest change here, by far is the eight hundred and ninety six thousand people who donated to a Democrat for the very first time since Biden dropped out of the race. That's one in two hundred and ninety six Americans like, that's crazy, and famously has the most dedicated political coalition of all

time in modern politics. Now Kamala has got the ladies, and I'm never betting against abortion ladies at all. These people will and did crawl over broken glass to vote in twenty twenty two, and now they're you know, Biden is gone. The biggest worst deficit to them actually having enthusiasm. So now generic d that has real power. And if I'm Republicans, I'm worried as hell about that because this get to the ballot box, row row, row your vote.

I mean, if you're in you know, northern Virginia suburbs where I am. I mean, these people are fired up now, they are ready to vote. They hate Trump with a passion that many Republicans have discounted.

Speaker 1

Now, for several years, I have never seen Kamala Harris better than she's been in these past few weeks. And not just since she became the you know, presumptive nominee, but since the Biden debate debacle. She has had a swagger. She has been genuinely charismatic on this. She has been good, like from a just sheer raw political analysis. Now she hasn't had to do the things that are difficult for her, right, she hasn't had to do the interviews and be caught

off balance. She has been very good. And the other thing she benefits from is she's not eighty years old, and the bar has been set. Think of the Biden speech last night, right, and then compare that to Colma, You're like, holy shit, this one's amazing, Right, But that gets he set the bar below the floor. So when she's able to deliver competently a democratic message and a democratic attack on Trump, with some energy and some vitality, and you have people who are actually excited to hear

from her. It feels so incredibly different than how things were before. And so I yeah, underestimate her at your peril because we all know what the weaknesses are. But Trump is now, Trump's age becomes in it, like he is an old man. He's almost eighty years old, right, and he's been in the public eye for a long people who are sick of he's got negative approval writing like he's got all the baggage that Trump comes with. So you know, there is she's got a genuine enthusiasm

behind her. And Ryan Mede at this point, I think he's right in a sense, the fact that she is a black woman. It's a benefit to her because Americans want to believe the mythology about you know, marching towards progress and equality, and they want to see themselves with the type of people who would vote for a black woman. And this was ended up being a benefit for Obama too, and so and I think we'll talk more about this

than the next block. But I think Republicans are a bit imperiled by how much they want to fixate on her race and gender as a negative, and so part of the enthusiasm for her is the sense of like, oh my god, like a black woman, and I see myself in you know what this means for the country, and what this means for you know, how we conceive

of ourselves. That's definitely a part of this, and it's a part of what makes her feel like this huge break from the Biden and Trump's blog that we were all looking towards space.

Speaker 2

I'm not so much sure I buy that. I think that's true for a certain subset of the liberal white population who fetishized like voting for black people and makes it.

Speaker 1

Now have you seen the like have you seen the black organizing culture?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean that's great, But that's the true whenever they had Obama. I mean I remember I went to an Obama rally in twenty twelve. It was the same vibe there. So I don't think it's all that unique. I just think it's any time there's so but that was.

Speaker 1

Good for Obama.

Speaker 2

Okay, sure, good for him.

Speaker 1

I mean I'm saying that's the opposite. It's the opposite of the like, oh, the country's too racist and sexist to elect a black woman.

Speaker 2

We've already thought that's stupid.

Speaker 1

It's the opposite of it. But that's what I'm saying, is like, you know, that's the way oftentimes this is framed. And I do think there's an added challenge of like envisioning her and the role. But I actually think I've come to believe net the level of aspiration enthusiasm that is wrapped up in that identity and image, I think that actually is a benefit to her campaign.

Speaker 2

Like I said, forrest subset of liberal white people, I think that is true. I would hope for most people, you don't have to care about who whatever the race is of the president. I certainly don't care what the race what.

Speaker 1

Sorry listen, obviously for me, the policy controls. But you can't deny they did an organizing call with black women that had forty thousand people on it. They did one for black men that had fifty thousand people on Like the level of enthusiasm and willingness to organize, and they raise millions of dollars on these calls. Like, you can't just hand wave that away and say, well, it doesn't matter to me, so it doesn't matter to anyone else.

It doesn't matter to some people, it doesn't matter, like they're excited about this person looks different than what I expected. I didn't know if this would be possible. And I think Americans, like you said, including white Americans, like the idea of themselves as someone who's not racist and not sexist and would be willing to vote for this candidate.

And so I don't think you can say, like, oh, this, I think it's I think it's a benefit to her her identity characteristics, which is the polar opposite of the narrative you normally get about the country's two racism.

Speaker 2

Oh sure that's actually a Median Arab and I think that's false. Is two thousand and eight, and I think, sure, that's good now. I mean, yeah, it's great. I would want it. I'd rather have it than not. But you know, there's a lot of white people in the country too, so if I was, I wouldn't necessarily I don't know.

I just don't think it really matters. Like if I'm looking at it from who, it all is going to come down to who you're going to raise the most money from, Like, I don't think it's going to be what black sororities or black women organizing calls. I'd rather have the money than not. But it's not necessarily like going to turn anything. Will it have a lot of media attention paid to it. I just think it's a wash. Yeah, absolutely, especially with Trump. I mean, look at the amount of

enthusiasm he gets amongst white working class voters. I'd have that.

Speaker 8

Now.

Speaker 2

Would I rather be Harris than Biden? Yes, absolutely. You know he's not getting that level of enthusiasm. But if I were her, I mean, I don't think the election is going to turn on black voters. I think it's going to come down to, like I said, suburban women. So if I were her, I'd be getting my ass out there in Detroit suburbs and and Milwaukee and everywhere else. I use the two together.

Speaker 1

I have really been gaining some ground among black voters, and Trump was really banking on continuing to eat into those margins in a way that is significant in a lot of states. And so you know, I think she we already have the numbers, like she definitely reverses that trend. She reverts more back to that Obama coalition with regards to black voters. And so yeah, I mean I don't think you can just say, like her identity doesn't mean anything in this race. You can see from the Republican

reaction like obviously it has. It has resonance good and bad among different segments of the population. But my only point is that the notion that we've been sold, we were sold after Hilly Clok the country's too sexist to vote for her, you know, we were sold during Obama like all the country maybe too racist to vote for him. That was obviously not true, and they did vote for him twice twice. Hillary Clinton was not sexism. That wasn't the rest I was on sexism. That was the reason

Kamala didn't do well in her primary. I think it's exactly the opposite. I think it's I think it's a benefit to her that she appears to be visually and her identity is such a break with you know, just the surface level identity of the contest as it was originally formulated. That that's that is part of why you have this flood of enthusiasm, donations, organizing all of those things that you're seeing right now.

Speaker 2

Her identity is part of that, I'm sure sure, I think is part of it. I think it would be roughly equal for aggression with Merrick Avenues. I think that's really so much of it is just he's not He's not Biden like that is a massive part of it.

Speaker 7

All right.

Speaker 2

So Crystal was very kind and she wanted me to weigh in on some of the Republican attacks on Kamala Harris. Or We're going to start with one that has been making the rounds. Kamala is allegedly quote, what is it, the original hawk to a girl? This was on Fox Business. Let's take a lesson.

Speaker 5

Yeah, and then there's the DEI press secretary telling you that the DEI vice president is the future of the party here and so the future looks kind of dim for the Democrats here. But this is no shock or either. Kamala harris 's the original hawk to a girl. That's the way she got where she is, and the party's going downhill if it's in her hands.

Speaker 2

That was tough? Was that was That was harsh? That was harsh. Look, I would just say this, let's just not go into it, all right.

Speaker 1

In general.

Speaker 2

I talked with Emily about it. I have annoyance with some of this because some of this it's like, well, what is allowed to be talked about? It not So with Trump, it's like, okay, well, we have now spent years litigating did he have sex with Stormy Daniels up until the point of what I'm not not going to go into. Let's just say the very personal details of Donald Trump's anatomy, what the exact sexual encounter was between the two That was a key like thing against him.

Speaker 1

So well, it was in the context of a campaign payment her up, that was the context there, Okay, but then.

Speaker 2

The Karen McDougall thing. Also, you know, many of Trump's affairs, so Trump's sex life was like totally out in the open. So it's like, oh, well, we're not allowed to talk about Kamala like basically having an affair with a very powerful, you know, a relationship with a powerful San Francisco mayor, and clearly how that, you know, contributed to her rise to the top. I would say, it's fine to talk

about I wouldn't talk about it that way. But in general, let's just take it back to where we were in the beginning of this Uh, in the beginning of this show, which is if we're talking about suburban women in abortion, I would probably just avoid was.

Speaker 1

Going to say, I say so, I would incur Republicans, Please continue this line of attack, Laura Lumber, please continue talking about Kamala Harris's uterus and theorizing about her entire Please the other thing about this Sager, and this fits with the the DEI hit as well. This shit is so online and so to people that understand it, it's repellent, right like even the Fox Business lady there is like repelled by it. And he's been pulled off there. He hasn't been seen since he is.

Speaker 2

Making it explicitly sexual. And that's part of the thing that I'll get into with the de I think, which is part by the way. I don't think anything should be off women's I think it's fine. I think it is weird that when she was twenty nine she's dating Willie Brown, I think very obviously for political purposes. I think that's weird. It tells me a little about her sociopathic personality that basically is required to become president. So I think she is just like anyone who wants to

be president. Many of these people are willing to do anything in order to ascend a power, and that's basically a requirement for the arrogance to think that you should be president. Okay, so let's leave it at that. Now. I didn't say that in a sexist way. Note that I just put it in exactly the same terms of many people who want to climb to the very top are willing to do anything to do that. So I

think in that context it's fine. Now, I would not put it in explicitly sexual terms the way that I don't know who that guy was the Fox Business his analyst.

Speaker 1

Let me tell you what his Twitter profile says, because you'll enjoy that, please. It says a father of four, host of first class fatherhood.

Speaker 2

All right, yeah, see, would you talk about your daughter that way? You know, would you want to talk about women that way? In general? Like I said, this whole

like sluct shaming thing, I wouldn't do it personally. I think talking about it in in terms of what it reveals about character and background, I think that's totally on brand, And I think fine, you know, in the same way that I think the talking about Trump and his sexual promiscuity are, especially with sexual braggadocio in the past, reveals like obviously something insecure about him and about.

Speaker 1

His love of the tabloids and all of that. So in general.

Speaker 2

The reason why I don't trust Republicans to talk about this is probably the same reason and Mike Johnson's told them not to talk about DEI. It's not that it's not legitimate, it's that can we really trust the people who brought us Todd Aiken and who was the other one who made the comments about rape Indiana? I'm forgetting as say. Sure, it's something, it's totally on the top

of my head. But my point is is that can we really trust like these boomers who are you know, or even people who are making hawk tool comments on national television talking about the vice presidential canon? Can we talk? Can we trust them to talk about it in a nuance and I think in a way that could possibly make it a hit for the American people. No, I can't trust them about it, especially on the sexual thing.

I would just let it be. I mean, look, like I said, when we've got Trump on the ticket to let's all just let's all call it even.

Speaker 1

I mean this argument that he made on Fox Business, which I've seen made, He's not the only one. This is being made, you know, online incessantly. The DEI thing, obviously is being made by members of Congress and op ed writers and whatever, like his argument about her is that she's black and she's a whore. Like again, if that's if that's where you want to go with this, good luck, because the other thing is part of how you know this is not an effective attack is Trump

is not engaged in any of this, you know. But here's the thing, No, here's the thing that's ogur Like, let me put my moralizing aside, because I do think this is a disgusting thing to say about anyone. And I said the DEI thing too, well, I'm sure talk more about this, but whatever original like good faith critique of DEI programs that existed, which I share some of, by the way, Like it's clearly just become a term for a slur for like a black person with the job,

and that's the way it's been used typically. But the bigger problem with both the Hawktua thing and the DEI thing is it reveals this like super niche, overly online type of brain. That was why Vivek didn't do well

in his campaign. It was why Ron de Santis didn't do well in his campaign because they had these like niche online fixations, including a bizarre terminology that wouldn't even be familiar to most Americans, Like to the extent that most Americans would know the term DEI, it would be like black people who find it to be basically a slur, Black people who were increasingly open to a Republican message, by the way, or people are just like what do you I don't even know what that means, Like what

are you even talking about? So that's why Trump never uses He never talked about ESG, he never talked about DEI. He made fun of the fixation on wokeness because he saw it for being this like overly niche online concern that doesn't land for normi Americans. So outside of the fact that I think they're certain demographic groups that will find this type of language in tech repellent, I also think it's just like way too online.

Speaker 2

I'm not willing to go there on DEI yet, because dei is a term that actually means something. Now, personally, I would not use de I. Would just say a firmative action, which is far more accurate and I think correct about who she is and about that both why she was picked for the vice president, etc. But that is like I don't know, I'm let's think of a leftist equivalent, where just because somebody has used the term improperly, does that mean that you just stop and it's become

publicly defined or used as something else? Does that mean you give up on the term?

Speaker 3

Like?

Speaker 2

I don't think so. I mean DEI is a real thing. It basically means affirmative action for minority groups. It embodies the whole equity versus equality. And that's a mindset and philosophy that Kamala believes in, including putting out equity cartoons. So calling her a DEI candidate is empirically true. She was picked for her race. She was picked because she was a black woman. If you look back at the time, Amy Kobachar, Gretchen Whitmer and her were on the final list,

m madness was happening. Jim Clyburn says, you got to pick a black lady, and he picked a black lady even though he didn't like her and she wasn't all that politically effective and failed in the primary. That is literally the EI.

Speaker 1

Here's what I would say. Yeah, the vice presidential pick is almost by definition a DEI pick. Joe Biden was put on the ticket with Barack Obama because he's a white dude, like you're always picked. I mean, what are we talking about with regard to who Kamlo will pick, Like it's going to be a white guy?

Speaker 8

Yes?

Speaker 3

Is that a de I?

Speaker 2

Yes, that's my point.

Speaker 1

But here's the thing. Here's so, here's the thing that did None of these people and you, by the way, too, you would never talk about them that way. You would never use the term DEI to describe them, even though they're also being picked for their race or other demographic characters. Mike Pence picked because he's an evangelical with you know, ties into that community. No one called him a DEI pick. And that goes to my point of what this has

come to mean. Whatever you might mean when you say it would, it has come to mean is a black person with the job?

Speaker 2

Okay?

Speaker 1

And remember how they used it with the Baltimore mayor, right, sure, the democratically electing mayor on Twitter?

Speaker 2

No, but it doesn't.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but you know that this is not just one idiot on Twitter. I mean that's how they're using it in this context too, and it's not used consistently. Joe Biden was a DEI vice presidential pick. Mike Pence was a DEI presidential pick, a vice presidential pick. Jd Vance was picked because of his you know, unique ties in the Russ Beelder or is he a DEI vice president pick? No, of course they would never talk about them that way

because it's only used to talk about black people. But let me just say again, I encourage you to continue this line of attack. I encourage you to continue in this direction because not only is it off putting for a demographic group that you know was starting to be like somewhat open to Republicans, and I don't think just black people like Also, you have a lot, as you were saying before, you have a lot of like suburban white people who don't want to see themselves as racists.

If they're going to vote against Kamala Harris, they want like a non racial based or gender based reason to vote against her. So, you know, not only is it off putting, but again, part of the problem for Republicans in twenty twenty two was the sense of like, you guys are just out there, like you're weird. You fixate on this fringe stuff and all this DEI esg all this hyper online fixation. Talked to a girl like do you think my mom knows what that is. No, she doesn't, Okay,

So I encourage Republicans to continue in this direction. I think this is going to work out very well.

Speaker 2

I'm not defending hawk too, but here is why. And this you brought up an important point. So let's think about the history. Affirmative action was literally created for black people. There's a reason why the term is extricably linked.

Speaker 1

Now.

Speaker 2

Part of the problem with affirmative actions.

Speaker 1

That's what So that what makes it an explicitly racial But this far I'm saying, the problem with affirmative action is that it became dei, which became an all encompassing term that got fused with bipoc esg all of this like minority obsession.

Speaker 2

So whites are by definition not I min which is why the term is not traditionally used with that Now as a mindset itself, by the way, I opposed racial preferences. I appose opposed voting for people because of race, And I don't believe in racial exceptionalism or any of this stuff, and I would have opposed it back in the nineteen sixty two. The policy has been a disaster for the United States, which is why I think striking down affirmative

action was a good thing. Now calling her a DEI candidate again is empirically true when you utilize your race in the midst of the greatest racial hysteria in this country since the nineteen sixties and use that to cost your opponents, when your own record itself is one of political disaster in the campaign and you failed with black voters.

Speaker 1

Amy Cony Barrett Trump had said he wanted to put.

Speaker 2

On that's an affirmative action pick. That's correct.

Speaker 1

Yes, do any of these people ever talk about it? People all that right?

Speaker 2

Actually did call Amy a Cony Barrett?

Speaker 1

And I've never heard any of these people her being a DEI affirmative action candidate? It is, And you just said it's an explicitly does it was developed it would be okay, okay, but that's what's the argument. But I'm just saying you're making an explicitly racialized argument. Then that the problem with Kamala Harris is based on her race.

Speaker 2

And her tender that's that problem. That's a that's a fair attack. Okay, you didn't earn because of your race, which is true.

Speaker 1

But the same is true of Joe Biden. The same is true of the vice presidential pick. It's not admit, nobody earns it. They get plucked down of wherever for their demographic characteristics and who what group people think they're going to appeal to. So I'm not saying you can't say it, say it, please go ahead, make the case, go for it. I'm saying I do not think that this is a wise direction for Republicans to go in.

Because let me let me just add to this, because I was thinking about, all right, if I was gonna go after Kamala Harris, like, how would I do it? What would be the most effective thing? Because I think that we, you know, we have sort of a model for that because of the failure of her twenty twenty presidential campaign.

Speaker 4

What was it?

Speaker 2

She believe that?

Speaker 1

What was that was a problem for he It was it was a couple of things. It was that she believes in nothing right, She's just decipher She's like, you know, just will say whatever's convenient in the moment. So she's

a political chameleon. And the sense of incompetence that came from, like the inability to run a campaign, her stumbles on the trail, et cetera, et cetera, so make that case, those things don't have anything to do with her being a black woman or a slut, right, this has to do everything with her own capabilities and where she's been and how she's been all over the place, And that

rings a lot more true. The other thing that, you know, this is very predictable, like the thing Trump is actually going with is ooh, she's radical left, she's radical liberal, etcetera. I think that's probably has more traction. Definitely does, and it's more over the target of of what would make sense, but it also effective. Attacks really have to ring true. And what rings a lot more true with Kamala Harris isn't that she is some hardcore, committed lefty ideologue. It's

that she doesn't believe in anything at all. So if I was going against Kamala Harris, I would leave her race and gender beside, because, like I said, people who want to vote against her, most Americans don't want to see themselves as explicitly racist or sexist, right. They want to have some other reason that they can point to that they're voting against her, other than that she's you know, a whore or a DEI pick. They want to have something they can point to that absolves them of any

potential implication of racism or sexism. So that's why I think these attacks, you know, I think they're just instantly repellent, off putting to certain groups, and I just don't think it's the most effective direction for Republicans to go to in terms of making a case against her. And there is a very clear case that can be made against I.

Speaker 2

Don't disagree with the case you're making, but let me case make the case the dei affirmative action thing. Nobody suffered more in this country of bi affirmative action than white working class voter. So this is the white working class selection voting for Trump. Well, no, not necessarily. Joe Biden was breaking what thirty percent forty percent white working class. I mean, it's like with blacks, margins matter black voters.

Ninety ten and eighty twenty is literally the difference between four hundred electoral votes and what two hundred and sixty, Right, That's part of the reason why Trump's meaningful gains. I mean, he's winning like eight or he's winning like fifteen percent of the black vote, but that's still a lot more than ten. So if the affirmative action line can you know, mobilize white working class voters in the industrial Midwest. It's

not a bad thing. And if you look at Hillbilly Elogy and what is it's the history of the Scotts Irish people. I'm forgetting Jim Webb's book. If you look at those two things, a core theme is about racial discontent and the obsession with Democratic elites of affirmative action.

And so I think JD as a line in Hillbilly Lergy something about you know, people on the floor being upset because somebody got promoted because they were black or Jim Webb has talked a lot about this in the past, by how affirmative action is one of the reasons that he left the Democratic Party. Then, pointing to the person who is literally only in I mean, can we acknowledge Crystal that she would not win an open Democratic primary like from in twenty and twenty.

Speaker 1

I mean, obviously in twenty twenty, I think in twenty I think this time there's a decent chance she would have just because of her position as.

Speaker 2

VI after select that's great.

Speaker 1

Again, that's like almost definitionally the case of every vice presidential candidate. So I mean, listen, if you want to double. The case you're making is let's like double down on racial grievance. That's not It is true. It's obviously a racial grievance. Like even if you say it's a legitimate racial grievance, it is a racial grievance. It is white working class feeling like black people got things they weren't didn't.

Speaker 2

Deserve that that minority groups because they weren't necessarily taking any.

Speaker 1

Morality out of that. It is definitionally a racial grievance. I don't think that that is an effective strategy at this point in time, and it's not the coalition that Trump is trying to go after this time. I mean, they've really been trying to expand into a more diverse coalition. They have a lot of problems with suburban women that

they know is going to be a major issue. So, you know, I think the jd Vance vice presidential pick was a foolish one for this exact reason, because it's also just doubling down on a base that is already with you, Like you already have the enthusiasm of this group.

And again, to me, the fact that Trump, who is not you know, he is not above saying anything and you know, everything all the time when he thinks it serves him that he is not making these arguments, I think tells you a lot about the political foolishness of us going in the story.

Speaker 2

It's only been five days, right that Trump has been on the election one rally since, but we know that he.

Speaker 1

Has showed all this DEI esg woke like he has a shoed all of that language very clearly and even like made fun of Ronda Santis.

Speaker 2

And I think that's just and I don't disagree with anything, and that's.

Speaker 1

That's a big part of the what the rock that Ronda Santis crashed in to is his fixation with these things that are like hyper online and somewhat niche and just feel like weird in fringed to a lot of Norman Americans. Putting aside, like you know, the debate we're having about the moraleity and whatever.

Speaker 2

I think if I were Trump, I don't think it's a bad attack, like I said, with winning white working class and trying to now let's say I would use the term affirmative action, because I think it's also the most accurate. Now I'm also going to object though that you can't just make these throw these claims out, because notice who I'm not going to call a di i cannet, Barack Obama. Barack Obama rightfully won the presidency and his

primary election on the strength of his own name. And I don't think if anything, you know, if he had racial headwinds or whatever, it was far stronger in two thousand and eight, and he blew it out of the water. I don't think he was a de i cannet. He was never selected, he was never anointed, he was never given a position. He fought the Clinton establishment and he won. That's actually an inspiring racial story, and that's part of the reason why you can connect to that. That's why

white working class people can connect to that. Obama grew up his background, that was everything. Kama is a different story. I mean, she was selected because of her race, right, And I'm not gonna give I'm not going to just put away and say we're not allowed to say that that in my opinion.

Speaker 1

You're allowed.

Speaker 2

Okay, fine, but listen, but that won't be potent.

Speaker 1

Joe Biden was also selected for his right.

Speaker 2

But it's not the same because at least at that time, at least at the time, they would lie about it and they said it's first four.

Speaker 1

But hold on, it is like, it's almost exactly the same, fear matters, it's as exactly the same because he ran in that primary and he failed miserably, and it was he multiple times failed miserably. So because this is the thing on you know, the knock, the legitimate knock on Kamala is like, well, you ran and you failed and then you just got plucked out. Well, it was literally the same thing with Joe Biden. But that was never

that was never used against him. He was never called you know, his credibility, his you know, legitimacy in the position was never called into question. And Kamala Harris, I mean, you know, she won statewide in a large, very diverse,

very economically powerful state multiple times. Okay, so yeah, I'm not going to believe that what's his name, Willy brown Willy Browning, This one man cannot possibly be responsible for every single thing that happens every election that occurs in the state of California, like at some level, to the extent that there's any democratic process at play. She earned her stripes in the state of California. She won primary,

she won statewide multiple times she served in office. People got to evaluate her credentials, et cetera, et cetera, and she got put in as vice president in the same way that every vice president gets picked by nature of her demographic characteristics and who they thought she could appeal to. Now, I don't support I think it is racist to assume black people are going to vote for a black person just because of their identity. I think it is way

more complex than that. But you can't deny that. The whole discussion we're having around Commlin Harrison how she'll pick her VP is about their demographic care who they'll appeal to, and what their background is and all of those things. That's like just how vps get picked. So I don't think that's fair. I don't think it's fair for that to be held specifically against her when it's not held

against anyone else who doesn't happen to be black. And I also, like I said, I hope Republicans continue in this direction because I think it's a very ineffective, off putting, overly online attack. I think if you polled most of the public, they don't even couldn't even tell you what DEI even means.

Speaker 2

I agree, but they might know what affirmative action means, and they are two sides of the same coin. So I'm just gonna look, we'll see, we'll find out in November. I think, as a person who is a minority, can I play my minority card? Now? If I ever got promoted or ascended or whatever because of my rate, I'd be mortified because of it.

Speaker 1

So anybody who's out there who supports this type of.

Speaker 2

Crap, you're just shooting yourself in the foot, in my opinion, and I think it's the stupidest thing. Now. Again, part of the reason why I connect with the affirmative action message is explicitly because I despise people who's only characteristic about them is making it all about their race. That's not interesting, Like what color you're born is not interesting at all. What you believe in, what you're gonna do

for others. That's again why I at least revere Barack Obama as a political animal, using his background as both a black man as a black man and also his white mother and his grandparents growing up in Kansas to create a story that everyone could connect to that was genuinely inspiring. I I remember thinking about it at the time and to this day is one of those where everyone can But that's not necessarily unique about his race. Clinton was very effective in the same thing. He literally said,

like I grew up in a trailer park. I was trailer trash. And that's one of the reasons why they even called him at the time the first black president, which is stupid, but because he connected for a lot with black voters. So that's my point is that it's not about race per se, it's about connecting with what people feel icky about the other person. Now, one of the attacks against her is she was selected because of a race. He's never been truly tested in the fire

of democracy. Now, I think you're one state, okay, okay, okay, politician, you have to get elected.

Speaker 1

People still have to vote for you.

Speaker 2

There's a fake primary to the post.

Speaker 1

People still get to vote in the state of California. It's not like a dictatorship. The entire time is in Alabama's and they even even though I'm not sure how long they've had it, but now they have the jungle primary where you are up against very likely a Democrat in the fall as well. I mean, listen, yeah, it's a machine state, but you still have to win vote sure. So I just think, like, I just don't think that's fair. Delaware is also a state where if you just have

a d buy your name and get elected. I don't remember anyone calling into question Joe Biden's credibility because of that. So that's why I just think it's I mean, I just think it's really very unfair, and I think it is a foolish. I think it's a foolish direction go in and it makes it explicitly, it explicitly racializes the argument against her, and I don't.

Speaker 2

But then why is she allowed to explicitly racial and the meaning, Oh, it's so important to have a black woman. I'm like, I don't care if you're a black Woman's like, what are you going to do for her?

Speaker 1

I haven't even I mean, I haven't heard her say that. But to your point about Barack Obama, all political candidates except for Bernie Sanders, they use their identity, like they talk about their biography. That Trump as the business guy, right, like he uses his biography and his identity as well. Like that's part and parcel of what you do. So I don't find it, like, you know, her I don't find her talking about her identity to be some like crime against the country. I think it's far more important

what she's going to do. I think the fact that she hasn't stood for anything, and even after all these years in politics, I have no clue what this woman actually believes. I think that's a problem. But for her to talk about her identity and for people to aspirationally want to yeah, I mean that was part of the appeal Baraco. Remember how excited people weren't and you was elegd in two thousand and or you were a baby,

but they were excited. Even people who weren't really Democrats or didn't even vote for they were excited because of what it said about the country.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

She benefits from that as well, And I think for Republicans to try to make an explicitly racial or gender based case against her, I just think that will backfire, especially given the coalition they're trying to put together.

Speaker 2

I'm not sure I agree, just because we have lived through BLM madness, we lived through anti racism baby and all this. Other people are fed up with a lot of this stuff. I mean, look, I'm not saying the CRT thing was like a big winner. But I think if you look at the general trend, people are mostly gone passed, People are mostly passed. A lot of the BLM nonsense that was, you know, shoved down our throats for an entire what two or three years in this country.

I can't, I'm not. I can't be the only one who was further radicalized on race as a question of that in terms of being explicitly against racialism in American politics.

Speaker 1

But that's the thing, Sager is, that's actually the biggest danger is that right now Republicans are the ones that are appear to be engaged in that racialism, because I do think you're right that Americans have an instinct towards like the color blind ideal, and so when you're making an explicitly racialized case, it flips from you know, Democrats. There was a time when Democrats were the ones who were like word policing and nanny's in PC and cancel

culture and all this stuff. And then Republicans flip the script because they got so obsessed with wokeness that it seems like you guys are the ones who are obsessed with this stuff. And it's the same dynamic now, Kama Harris is out there talking about like, you know, the normal democratics, abortion and middle class, about all this stuff,

and Republicans are out here making explicitly racialized case. I think, to a country that really prefers a color blind self perception, at the very least, they find the explicitly racialized arguments when they were made by democrat but now when they're being made by Republicans to be off putting, repellent and

non and not appealing. That's what I think, because I do think that like the colorblind view, where you're not obsessing over these demographic characteristics, is far more salient, far more reflective of like the aspirational place Americans want to be. And so when it's Republicans who are the ones who are talking about, you know, racial characteristics, they're the ones in danger of sort of violating that precept of oh, we're, you know, supposed.

Speaker 2

To be a real I personally, though, I feel a bit gaslight on this conversation because it's like, you can't and I'm not talking about you, but I'm saying media democrats know this. You can't spend the last twenty five years of American politics making everything about race and then when people say, hey, you were select because you're race, like you're bringing up race, It's like, hold on a second,

what like what just happened here? So I will I am skeptical that this will have the negative effect because, like I said, I think there are a lot of people out there. I mean, the affirmative action thing that was very popular for most people whenever it was struck down.

Speaker 1

It's actually a decent attack.

Speaker 2

I don't trust anybody who is selected by affirmative action now, especially whenever it's the most important job in the entire world. So I think that's a decent enough attack.

Speaker 4

Now.

Speaker 2

Also for now she's talking about abortion. How soon until we see explicit racialism that comes from her, about diversity quotas about the people who she's surrounded with. What percent of her staff is going to be black women or whatever, or Asian men or any of that. I mean, are we really saying that that instinct is dead in the modern Democratic Party? Like, of course not. The Biden administration has racial quotas literally for people who work for them.

So this is somebody who also she always talked about her diversity in her office, Like you can't both believe in that and then get upset whenever it's used against you. Now, if I were her, I agree, I would only talk about abortion in middle class issues. But I have no doubt that she, especially if not her, the media and

her surrogates will also make it into a thing. And I'm just not convinced yet that the backlash now would say used DEI I would say affirmative action and against racialism specifically, which I think Democrats are the people who mostly use that rhetoric and have dominated the conversation now for a long time. I think pushing back against that is potent, has been for I can only speak for myself. I don't I don't know. We've only been here now

for a week. I find it repellent that she was selected for that reason.

Speaker 1

I think you're definitely repellent that Joe Biden was selected. But that's kind of repellent, wasn't He was selected because.

Speaker 2

Of his character? Hected was white?

Speaker 1

Do you yes?

Speaker 2

The lies we tell ourselves? Also?

Speaker 1

Do you find it she's black? Do you find it repellent that? Right now? The just bed rock assumption is Kalma Harris got to pick a white.

Speaker 2

Man's not repellent because you shouldn't.

Speaker 1

I haven't heard you say or anyone else say anything about that.

Speaker 2

I don't know. Notice when I said Josh Shapiro, I say it because he's a actually popular governor. That's why I would. I mean, we're about to talk about VP. But I'm based on your statistics. I mean I would pick Gratchen Whitmer if I were to. I wouldn't necessarily pick a white man because she's popular in the state of Michigan. You got to win Michigan. I mean if she was black, I wouldn't care either. Who's the governor of Maryland? Was that guy's name Wes Moore?

Speaker 1

Esmore?

Speaker 2

He's a decent candidate. Are you pick him too? I think you could win. I'm serious. I mean, this is somebody who's from around here. He speaks well, right, He's one of those where he does a good job on the stump. I think he's quite popular, and he do a decent job with some of these swing voters like there. I just made the case was.

Speaker 1

A repellent that Mike Pen's got pick because he was an evangelical Well, it was a smart play, it was tactically smart. This is this is my point. Sarah Panllin picked because she was a woman, and she was young, and you know, she was picked for her I don't remember anyone saying it's repellent that she was picked for

her demographic characteristics. So why is it repellent when it's a black woman pick for her characteristics, and it's not repellent when it's a white man picked for his characteristics because.

Speaker 2

They conversation about race, Like I said, the media and democrats again, we were literally donning themselves in kentake cloth, putting George Floyd and BLM signs up in every restaurant in the country, and then expecting everyone to just sit there and be like, oh, this is actually totally fine, that we've completely lost our minds on all of this discussion. And then it's like getting mad whenever you say, hey, that was actually crazy. You were picked because of these reasons.

Speaker 1

Why why should we say But because it's not applied uniformly, that's my point. It's only applied when it's a black person, that's the point. But they are if you're going to make the case, if you're going to make the case that people shouldn't be picked for the demographic characteristics, I am on board for that conversation. But that is not the case that's made. The case is only made. That's why DEI has just come to me and a black person with the job. It's only made when it is

black people. It's no problem when a white dude gets picked because he's a white dude, or an evangelical dude gets picked because he's an evangelical dude, or he's picked fro because he's from Pennsylvania or whatever, that's no problem. That's fine, and isn't a mark against them. And so it's just it's just a blatant double standard. And like I said, listen, you can make the case all you want.

It's fine. I have no issue with it. Make the case, but I think Republicans run a real risk of being seen as the party that is racial obsessed with race in the election. And you're right, the party that seems like they're obsessed with race like Democrats did with the Can Take All and all that stuff, right the party that seems like they are obsessed with identity characteristics is in a poor position. And right now it's the Republicans who seem much more obsessed with her being a woman

and being a black woman. And I don't think it's wise for them.

Speaker 2

And we'll see. I'm not going to put it past the BLM people to bring it all right back circle, especially the.

Speaker 1

BLM people actually post Kamala Harris's coronation. By the way, for what it's worth, they wanted an open convention. They put on a whole thing.

Speaker 2

We're going to object to miss bail fund, like what are we doing here? Like that's ridiculous. But look anyway, I will, I will. I'll tell you what. If Republicans lose, and they lose what even more of the black vote and suburban white vote than they did in twenty twenty, then I'll think you're right. But if they don't, and I'm gonna say, I think it was actually a smart play and I'm curious to see.

Speaker 1

How Ever, why don't you think that Donald Trump is making this.

Speaker 2

Argument because he's only it's only been out for five days because he got shot in the ear, and he's only said had enough time to stay laughing and Kamala are what is it? Lion? Kamala? It's oh yeah, okay, whatever, I think laughing is better.

Speaker 1

I mean, the rerect these these terms are. He has studiously avoided all of these terms because they sound like a secret language to like normal voters.

Speaker 2

I agree, don't use the term DEI like use the term affirmative action. That's accurate. Everybody knows what that one means, and everybody also is going to know that that's correct whenever it's used against her. But okay, I think we probably beat this convers Yeah.

Speaker 1

So the other the other argument that they've been making is that she is insufficiently pro Israel, which I think is another you know, electoral loser in terms of arguments against her. I think we have a c five of evidence of this case that's being made against her this week. Let's take a listen.

Speaker 8

This is the astounding bad decision not to appear behind BB as Vice President of the United States. This is a signal to Thomas has Blah and Iran that we literally do not have BB's back. This is really her first major foreign policy decision, and she's gotten anf already.

Speaker 5

You got a question.

Speaker 9

She will not show up for the Prime Minister's Joint Session of Congress today. She rather addressed in the summer a sorority, a cod sorority, like she can't get out of that. What she's doing is she's running away from Israel. She refuses to go to Bibnet YadA Yahu's in Washington.

Speaker 5

She refuses to be.

Speaker 9

Even if you're against Israel or you're against the Jewish people, show up and listen to the concept. But she's totally against the Jewish people. And it amazes me how Jewish people will vote for the Democrats when they're being treated so disrespectfully and badly.

Speaker 5

It amazes me.

Speaker 9

It's shocking.

Speaker 1

I don't I don't.

Speaker 9

So now we have a new victim to defeat Lion Kamala Harris, Lion.

Speaker 8

L y.

Speaker 1

So I'm not going with Lion. Lion is not his best work, not not laughing. Kamala also not his best work.

Speaker 2

Why and Ted worked because it really had this one? Yeah, laughing, I could see it. I don't know. He needs something better. He needs to bring the magic back.

Speaker 1

Also, the honestly crazy kamalas used crazy for a bunch of time. I would be probably, I think it would be better than those. But Nancy insufficiently pro Israel. I also don't think is the political winner.

Speaker 2

That Look, I don't think people care that much about Israel, especially now today. Maybe some young voters. Even then it's not the majority, So like, I don't think it's going to be the deciding election in terms of the money though, that's where a lot of money is for donors. Yeah, that's that's probably why he's doing.

Speaker 1

That's it. But it's also, like, you know, to the extent,

so I think for young voters it doesn't. I think they're watching very closely what Kamala Harris does and says in these next few days, and I think that is consequential for her in terms of being able to put together that sort of recapture some of the Obama coalition, but for a broader general electorate to the extent that it matters at all, it's the sense of like, why are you fixated on these why are you obsessed over these foreign countries when you know we got a lot of problems here.

Speaker 2

I count myself part of that. I don't really care what you know about whether she's sufficiently pro is reeled or not. But whatever, Okay, we got a good conversation by VP. Let's get to it.

Speaker 7

All right.

Speaker 2

Moving on now to discussion of vice president. Who is Kamala Harris going to pick to be her candidate? Let's put this up there on the screen. There's between seven to twelve names that have been floated out there. Going to start off with the most obvious and probably the front runner, I think it's fair to say it's Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, enormously popular in the state of Pennsylvania. His high approval rating obviously did very well against Doug Mastriano.

Pennsylvania is a must win state. Number two on the list is Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. I personally, I don't think she's going to pick Mark Kelly because if he was gone, then that would open up a competitive Senate seat in a battleground state where it's been a bit of hit or miss for Democrats so far. Number three is apparently a North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper. Now, apparently her and Cooper go way back, both serving as

AG's and have some experience together. That would put him possibly higher on the list, since this is such a crazy time that you definitely want somebody that you might be comfortable with comfortable with. Next is Kentucky Governor Andy Basheer. He's been all over television in the last couple of days attacking JD. Vance really auditioning himself for the job. He was also what is he the most blue governor of a red state in the whole country.

Speaker 1

He is the most popular governor Democratic governor in the entire most.

Speaker 2

Popular governor of the democratic right. But at the same time, no one's wenting Kentucky in the twenty twenty four election. But you know, maybe he could have some crossover rural appeal. Tim Waltz is apparently on the list. That's the governor of Minnesota, Illinois Governor JB. Pritzker. Pritzker is a billionaire, probably helps in terms of bringing in the money. It's also the governor of a Midwestern state. And then Gretchen Whitmer.

So what are we getting. We're getting a sense of governors boring from the Midwest, people who are popular in their home states and can bring it home at least in the battlegrounds with some of these white working class voters. And we'll see. There's another list that is out there of some twelve people that are allegedly on the list. Let's see who am I missing from the list that

I spoke out. Okay, so the outside team is being vetted by Eric Holder some of the other people that are on the list that I missed here, I think what was it. Tim McRaven was on the list, or Admiral he removed himself. Okay, here we go. Gina Raymondo, the current Commerce Secretary Transportation Budajig. I would not do that one, and Arizona Kelly Yes. At the same time, given his electoral track record last time in a South Carolina results, that's not some what I was gonna pick.

I don't think he did well enough in Iowa to prove that he has a real constituency outside of like hardcore Democrats, he doesn't have electoral sense really in the past, and I don't think he's got enough crossover appeal or coalition support to actually bring them in the same when you compare him to a governor like our governor, battle tested in the election, high approval rating, actually an executive, someone you can picture in the job, someone who Democratic

voters know I would pick a governor if I were Pete.

Speaker 1

I think you could do worse than I agree with you.

Speaker 2

You can do worse in people.

Speaker 1

I think you do worse than Pete. I think Pete has actually grown into his role as a regular he's gotten much better about, you know, the things he's doing in regard to the airlines whatever. He's very good on gable news is that's what he's always like excelled at.

Speaker 2

That's his only job.

Speaker 1

Anyway, I do think you could do worse than Pete. That being said, I personally I'm hoping that he picks that she picks Tim Walls because Minnesota governor, he's got this like kind of fun grandpa that he was a high school teacher. He's a veteran, and he pushed through a you know, truly like all the Democratic agenda items on wages and schools and the whole lot, with like a one vote majority in the state of Minnesota. Minnesota is still sort of a swing state, So I like him.

That means he probably won't get picked. My assumption is that the person that you know, I want to be at the least, which is probably Joshuapiro, is likely to get the nod. And I mean the electoral calculatory. I understand from their perspective like, oh, it's Pennsylvania and he won by a lot. However, I think there are also risk factors with him that they are probably likely to overlook. Which is, as I've mentioned a few times, I think people are watching very closely right now what Kamala says

and does with regard to Israel. Big part of the reason why Joe Biden was performing so poorly with young people was about Israel and the genocide in Gaza. She's getting a little bit of grace on that. And Piro was very outspoken with regard to the college protests, and he took a lot of action to quash the college protests, and he compared palistating protesters to pro Palestine protesters to

the KKK. That's a hard thing to get past. He's also has a lot of skepticism from unions because he was aggressively pro charter school in the state of Pennsylvania as well. So while I understand the electoral calculus with it being you know, Pennsylvania and him being popular, and he's you know, he's good on camera, and he does all the politician ethings well, et cetera. And he has some policy track record that I would be amenable to.

David Sarato points as you know, track record of holding power to account at certain times, that's going to be a tough pill for people who really care about Israel Gaza to swallow. So I think there's a risk that she undercuts the high level of like excitement and enthusiasm and democratic unity that she's benefiting from her.

Speaker 2

It's possible. I just I don't want to over overestimate how much it actually is, because I think that the craziness of the election is going to just you know, in terms of the enthusiasm and in terms of the defining issues. Already, the media attention on Gaza is probably like one fiftieth of what it was previously, and a lot of people are just gonna suck it up and they're going to vote for Kamala. I think a lot of people would have suck it up and voted for

Joe Biden anyways, a lot less. But now, because she's so undefined, all she has to do is like kind of not taken a real stance on the issue, and she's kind of the beneficiary of both. That's what I would do if I were her. I'll tell you this about Josh Shapiro, the man. All he knows how to talk about is abortion, and he's good at it. So my sister in law showed me his TikTok account this guy has got hundreds of thousands of TikTok followers. Every single thing he posts is about abortion, and I hate

to say it, it's good. He actually does well. You know, he does the blinking meme where he's like me whenever Republicans are trying to pan abortion, he's like, blink, blink, blink, and it's got hundreds of thousands of views, and it's like me when republic are radically trying to throw a national abortion man, he's like fifty versions of that. Of that, he's quite talented at it. I mean, he's one of those where I think he messages correctly on the issue.

And so if I were her and I'm just I'm focusing in on two hundred and seventy one electoral votes, I think he's probably the best pick. Especially she's less connected to Israel Gaza. You can have whitmerk and bring it home for you in a similar way, especially to Stump, you're more undefined on the issue, and you know, at the end of the day, what we're really talking about here a million people are so we're going to vote on Israel Gaza. There's probably going to be one hundred

million people who cast their votes. Now, if you do it in the right way strategically, it was going to make an impact. But it's not Biden. It's just different. Whenever it's not the guy who literally, you know, Bear hugged Nanta. It's just fundamentally it's very different.

Speaker 1

I think I think it's I think it's more of an issue than than you do. But I accept that, and I regret to admit that they're probably looking at it similarly to how you are. Now, what could be more of a problem for them is that Shapiro had settled some like sexual harassment.

Speaker 2

Obligation, but it was about his staff, wasn't him.

Speaker 1

But you know, if like you're trying to make that contrast with Donald Trump and that's hanging over him, I could see that being a hang up for them in terms of the vetting process. And then I also the other thing that's that's been floated. I don't know if I really I don't really buy this, uh that he's Jewish and so you know, if you're looking for that just straight up white dude, which seems to be like the tenor of the conversation that he may not fit

the bill. But I don't know that I don't think so either, But I don't know that. I don't know how. Yeah, people have been saying that, I don't I don't know if that. I don't know how they're looking at it. I don't think it matters either.

Speaker 2

But I remember the Jewish faith, I know.

Speaker 1

But what anyway that's out there the other one. So I already I like Tim Walls. Andy Sheer is interesting. I think he's an interesting contrast with Jadie Vance being from Kentucky, may you speak about Appalachia. That's the contrast he's trying to make. He's got, he's pro labor. He has had a track record, obviously of extreme success in a very difficult state. So that's that's appealing for him,

even though Kentucky obviously not a swing state. I feel like Roy Cooper has a good shot at it because they have that long personal relationship. I don't know how she's looking at the choice. If I was making the choice, I would want someone that I knew and like outside of just this two week time frame. I'm not sure who else she may have that personal relationship with. But I know Roy Cooper. She's done a number of events

with him here. They know each other from the time when they were ages is much more in terms of he's a very safe and cautious politician in terms of North Carolina, and he also has been very successful in a state that is pretty much read. Could they potentially put in North Carolina in play? I think possibly. Biden only lost it by like less than two percentage points least time around, So maybe with some of the demographic shifts that having Comma at the top of the ticket

potentially pretends that's a possibility. The downside with him is Democrats are looking at hey, this guy could run for Senate in North Carolina, have a shot down the road, and you are taking him off the board for that. So I don't know if that's a factor. I'm not sure Mark Kelly could put D two up on the screen.

One of the issues that the left and a lot of labor unions have had with Mark Kelly is he was one of the only Democrats who had not signed on to the pro Act, which is, you know, the sort of like comprehensive pro labor legislation that Democrats under the Biden administration were pushing. Now, under pressure, he's like, oh, no, no, no, I of course I support it. Of course I would

vote for it. Okay, there are other reasons that unions are concerned about him as well, some nominees pro labor nominees that he voted against and had issues with, So it's outside of just the pro Act, but that was kind of the most glaring issue for him. But in terms of his pick, I think your right SoC are. The biggest problem for him is are they really going to want to take his put his seat into play in Arizona and you know risk that. I think that's that's a problem for me.

Speaker 2

Well, you know, here's a conversation we all just had which we left out the most important constituency, the donors. The donor class loves Josh Shapiro, right, this is one where he has made it a point with Israel thing, but many other issues as well. The charge school thing is a real tell right about what exactly is happening here? And if I were the donor class, we know Crystal,

we know their politics. There's news out this morning that read Hoffman apparently gave seven million dollars to Kamala and was like, well, you got to fire Lena Kahan, you know if something like that happens. So they're making their plays too, and Kamala may actually be more donor dependent, maybe as much donor dependent as Trump now at this point, because she's late to the game and she's got to

make up some of this cash. She's got the hundred million, but she's gonna need a billion point probably a one point five billion to contend with the Republican superPAC machine. So the money, while it is there, there are certain things that come with that price. And because she was anointed and will be a product of super Delegac and more at the DNC, those donors are probably going to have even more of an outside impact on the VP selection.

So that's why, you know, if you look at their ideology too, in the way they look, that's not a bad case to make.

Speaker 1

I mean, I think if you're going with the donor pick, you're probably picking Pete True.

Speaker 2

Yeah, they love him, They do love if.

Speaker 1

Shapiro does have some track record, and I have to look back at the things David Sero has written, but he does have some genuine track record of like challenging I think tech and being a little more skeptical of corporate power. So I'm not sure that he would be as beloved I'm just not sure. I know the donors love Pete, so maybe he's got maybe he's got more of an inside track than we really think here. But

it'll be interesting. Like I said, my working assumption is whoever I want the least is going to end up in it. So that would probably be Joshuah Baby Net Now who in town right now? Today's meeting with Biden and Kamala Harris. Tomorrow he's flying or tonight or whatever. He's going to meet with Trump. In mar A Lago yesterday giving a speech to Congress. There were a number of Democrats, about half the Democratic Caucus boycotted the speech. And you had a whole lot of protest activity in advance.

We can put some of this up on the screen so you can get a sense. You had huge march. You see lots of Palestinian flags everywhere. You had some very you know, tense uh scenes with cups and tear gas. Here they are burning I think that maybe maybe net yahoo in effigy, and then they also burned an American flag there was, so they were they were out in

full force. They've been out the day before, h inside the Capitol building as well, so they were you know, making their mark and making their statement about their upset that this war criminal was in town. We also can put this up on the screen. Some of the activists actually got into the Watergate hotel where the net Yahoo coalition was staying and put these bugs and maggots.

Speaker 2

Literally like crickets. So I was like on this table biblic That's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 1

I think they just wanted to there, what they said as they just wanted to create chaos. They were also like pulling fire alarms in the role and I that kind of stuff. So it was like a sense of like creating chaos in the in the building. So making their presence felt, to say the least. Also making his presence felt was Bibi Netanyahu himself, who received a rapturous reception from those who were in attendance. I mean, it really was wild to see the level of adoration coming

to this man who's you know, israelied. CJ just ruled they have in apartheid state, the West Bank settlements are illegal. He's got ICC arrest warrants hanging over his head for the crime of extermination, but that did not slow the enthusiasm for his address to this joint session of Congress. Let's take a listen to a little bit of what he had to say.

Speaker 4

I asked the commander there, how many terrorists did you take out in Buffa. He gave me an exact number, twelve hundred and three. I asked him, how many civilians were killed? You said, Prime Minister, practically none, with the exception of a single incident where shrapnel from a bomb hit a Hamas weapons depot and unintentionally killed two dozen people, the answer is practically none. Iran is funding the anti Israel protests that are going on right now outside this building.

Not that many, but they're there and throughout the city. Well, I have a message for these protesters. When the tyrants of Tehran who hang gaze from cranes and murder women for not covering their hair are praising, promoting, and funding you, you have officially become Iran's useful idiots. And as we recently learned, they even brazenly threatened to assassinate President Trump.

And some of these protesters hold up signs proclaiming gaze for Gaza, they might as well hold up signs saying tickets for KFC.

Speaker 1

Chance in USA. They're a little bit weird. So I mean he lied about October seventh atrocity is a year I'm downplaying. They're the civilian deathhole smearing Palestinian pro Palestine protesters as paid viral. I mean, you come to our country and you smear our young people who are exercising their freedom of speech to give you a sense of, you know, how excited, how honored the members of Congress who attended were even John Fetterman sober put this up

on the Screenman wore a suit. I can't do it for, you know, his own constituents, can't do it for apparently his wife was like embarrassed by him and wearing his like tuxedo shirt. He can't do it for his family, or's wife, or his own president or party or what. I don't know. But when Bibi Natya, who comes to town, suddenly Fetterman breaks out the suit.

Speaker 2

I have tried to tell everyone dressing life as a member of Congress is about narcissism. It is about saying that I care more about my comfort than about representing you.

And when you were willing to put a suit on for the Israeli Prime minister over your own constituents, it is about serving your true master, and about signaling to the world about what you find important to the world, which was both your comfort when it's about Americans, and it's about respect only for foreign leaders, which I think is absolutely not so obviously, Look, I agree with you. I think it's disgraceful to have a foreign leader of any nation invited to the United States to openly trash

American citizens. I think there is only one country in the world that is somehow allowed to do that, and that is Israel. Obviously, Natta Yahu and others. I will say, Chris Lenelis, can you make them out about this one. I wouldn't be burning American flags here in the Washington Capitol. Didn't say it should be illegal. But people will really recall that that what was the unc frat incident of defending the flag. That's going to ignite a lot of people, you know, who are going to get very upset.

Speaker 3

Now.

Speaker 8

You know.

Speaker 2

The obvious retort is, well, why aren't you as upset about Gosla or whatever. Well, you know, listen, at the end of the day, it is our country. It's about our symbols, and you can't blen Some people just don't care or they're not don't feel all that connected to it, and you can't shame them, you know, and try and change their minds by openly trying. Here, here's what I'm trying to say, those chants of USA. The biggest mistake that you could possibly make is to say that being

pro Palestine is anti America itself. The positive thing you want to say is that it is to the best of America, or it is against American interests to phrase it about this country and not make it oppositional to actual American patriotism, to be opposed, because I do think that there are a lot of people out there. For example, if you don't want Joshapiro to be picked on Israel, don't be burning American flags in the middle of the US capital. It's just a foolish mistake. It's kind of

like the River to the Sea thing. Can you say it? Sure, you know, absolutely, But I think Dave Smith always makes that point. He's like, guys, that's not what we're trying to do, Like, we're not trying to change minds here. So if I were them, I always think that I always think that they just go too far. A lot of the vandalism and a lot of the burning of the flag thing, it just doesn't make the point that you guys want to make, and it just makes it even more of a minority. Now the White House is

out trashing you. It's just like I don't know, I don't I don't really see how that's possibly working to your benefit when I mean, all you have to do is point out the fact this guy, like the correct thing is he comes to this country undermines our freedom of speech. That's a much more potent attack. Now, I just think it's stupid.

Speaker 1

Listen on the tactics, I hate to criticize them because obviously much more discussed for bebing anyhow, I'm much more like horror at the genocide that's being part of the baby. I mean, it's just horrific. So it'll be like, oh, you shouldn't do this or that, Like I hate to do it. I think there's a you know, on the tactics,

like I can't really disagree. I think what has been very effective is when you have these groups of Jewish Americans who are there, who are you know, very visible and you know, are very organized and hostage.

Speaker 2

Family walked out right, and that's that says everything.

Speaker 1

That's powerful, and that's powerful, and that's important to know that the hostage families didn't walk out, and there were some actually that were arrested for the political symbols that they were wearing. But you know, I don't want to get into this debate because I think it's such a side issue from the key point here of how disgusting it is that this invited and feted.

Speaker 2

It's at the top of every news hour, every Boomer, Fox Country, in the viewer they burnt an American flag. You gotta understand, like, it's not working here, folks like for them, They're getting mainline propaganda all day long, and you see people burning. If you look.

Speaker 1

At that, if you look at the polling, you know people have only moved more towards the pro Palestine side, but not.

Speaker 2

Certainly flight waving Hamas flags, saying Hamas is coming. I just don't understand the tactics of a lot of these folks, and I think, if anything, they might even be agitators, because I'm like, are you so dumb that.

Speaker 1

You think this is such a side over from the reality of what's happening, in the reality of what this man said. But let's just so let's talk about what else happened here with regard to this speech. We can put this next piece up on the screen. We've got Rashida Talib who mounted silent protest. She actually did attend the speech, which people were surprised about. She's wearing her scarf and she has a small sign that says, on one side, war criminal. On the other side, I believe

guilty of genocide. So she did her own protests there, which I fully support. We had a large number of Democrats who did not attend. We can put this next piece up on the screen. One hundred House Democrats twenty eight Senate Democrats were present in the chamber for the Prime Minister's speech, meaning around half of both caucuses were absent.

This was really no worthy Sagura. I wonder what you make of this for Nancy Pelosi, she says, Benjamin Etnia, whose presentation in the House Chamber today was by far the worst presentation of any foreign dignitary invited and honored with the privilege addressing the US Congress. Many of us who love Israel spent time today listening to Israeli citizens whose families have suffered in the wake of the October

seventh hamas terror attack and kidnappings. These families are asking for a ceasefire deal that will bring the hostages home, and we hope the Prime Minister would spend his time achieving that goal. Obviously it's Nancy Felosi, so she's clearly, we have recently learned very powerful. So the fact that she says this number one, it's noteworthy because I think in the same way when she went on Morning Joe and was like, oh, we're waiting for Joe Biden to

make his decision, she opened the floodgates. She gave permission to the rest of the caucus to mount criticism of him and come out against him, and you know, really kept the flame alive in terms of pushing him out. I think this is a similar signal of like, Joe

Biden's a lame duck. Now, yes, you know, so all of the impetus of we got to keep quiet because we don't want to we don't want to show up the Democratic president, we don't make him look bad, we don't want there to be any distance between us and them, I think that's kind of out the window now. And for her, who has been a staunch ally of Israel for so long to say something this stark, and she also didn't attend the speech. I do think it's granting

a permission structure and is a noble shift. And I you know, also think it could be reflected in some of the ways that Kamala Harris herself tries to at least give the appearance of distance from a Biden policy that has been wildly on the top store.

Speaker 2

I think this is very effective. And this is where most normy Democrats are. They're like, I'm very uncomfortable with this, but that's kind of why I was bringing up the flag thing. I think that's very upon to a lot of people. This is the permission structure of yeah, we hate Bibe. They're like, we're not with BB. And this is where a lot of Jewish Democrats are too, from at least from what I've been able to observe, the right Nadler, Schumer, you know, a Pelosi, all these folks

who are like, I am not pro BB. I am meeting with these Israeli hostages. I'm allying myself with the families and the center left parties or whatever of Israel. But I'm not like, you know, chanting from the rezard of the sea, and you know, vandalizing and burning the flag. So this is where I think if I'm Harris, this is where I'm going. I'm going straight down them to the center. And I think this is I mean, frankly, this is the political center. If you look at the

polling on the issue. People are pro Israel in a like, yeah, they should have a right to exist way, but antibbe and anti prosecution of the war. This is exactly where you are. Yeah, they're pro seas fire. They're like, I think the war is bad. I think what you've done is terrible. I don't think America should necessarily be funding it. And yeah, I think that's mostly you know where we're at. And so the Pelosi thing, what can we always say

about this woman. She's smart, she knows how to triangulate. So if I'm Harris, this is exactly the tactic that I'm on. And then you have Trump and Vance, who would be to the right here, And that's fine, you know for right wing boomers, okay, but you know, for anybody to be swayed on the issue, then obviously you're

going to go Kamma. And if you try and capture both the left and the center, and you just leave the right to Trump, then any political benefit to Trump is just going to be money and then whatever Boomer voters who are going to vote on the issue anyway. So anyone who can be captured, I think you can get there with this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's interesting to me too, because bbe has now a very different political landscape in front of them, because and there's all kinds of you know, if you read the Israeli press, there's all kinds of trial. Okay, what does Kamla Harris really think? And I mean this is a question with her on everything, we don't really know what she really thinks. She doesn't really think much of anything.

The reason why I have been cautiously optimistic she would be I'm not listen, I'm very realistic about what's possible in the context of American politics. But why I think she could be better than Biden is because I don't think she's ideological, and I think at this point just a cost benefit a sheerly cynical cost benefit analysis of

the politics, as reflected by Pelosian. What you said soccer would land you in a different place than where Biden has been and her you know, top foreign policy advisor is more of like of the Obama more progressive foreign affairs when she's already said she's gonna Sordi reporter, she's going to clean house in terms of the Biden you know, Jake Sullivan, Tony Blinken's of the world. That's all positive indicator. But like I said, it's not like I'm expecting any

sort of her from Kamala. Ayris that you'll be waiting your whole life if you're waiting on that. But I think the clear eyed, reasonable political calculation at this point is that the Biden bear hug policy is doing more harm than good for them politically. And I think Nancy Pelosi that's why her comments are so noteworthy, because I think this is a sign that she also has that assessment of where the politics of this are at this time.

Speaker 2

Kamala has no foreign policy experience, right, we can only read the tea leaves. I know Philip Gordon, I've read some of his stuff. I looked a little bit in what he said in the past. I'd say it's a relatively mixed bag. I think everything here is pick and choose. So if you were an Israel Gaza person, yeah, Kamala is probably gonna better, to be honest, though, on Ukraine I think she'll be ten times worse based on her comments, maybe worse nate it well, because she would be like, oh, yeah,

go ahead and strike Russia. Something that zed Jalani said, which I think is a deeper in Moscow, right, And something that zed Jelani said which is so deeply true, is that if you look at Clinton and all of the other no foreign policy experienced people, almost always they end up being more hawkish to prove to Washington. So on Israel, you're right, the consensus has moved away, right, yeah, But on Ukraine that is terrifying. On anything related to I mean, on Iran even I would not I would

be worried. I actually would be worried because you know, let's look, the Iran dealer is now ed. No matter who gets elected, now they're going to have to deal with new enrichment and sanctions and all that. On Russia, I'd be worried a little bit on China as well, in terms of how it looks, especially where our domestic manufacturing is. So on foreign policy, I am still in wait and ce mode, just because it's like you said, when you're a blank slate, I'm just going to color

in the lines of conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom right now is basically where we are. I think on Israel I would see yah. But on Ukraine it's frankly worse than I think it's ever been. Now they're like, oh, they're winning and everything. So I'm still very, very skeptical my view about where it's at right. My view is on Israel she may be a little better. Yeah, On Ukraine she's probably the same.

Speaker 1

On Afghanistan, I don't think she would have don't think it's possible now, So net I will take that deal. I think, you know, on net and especially given what we know about the people that she wants to go and the people that she's surrounded herself with. Now, if we have a return to the I would one hundred percent take a return to the Obama era foreign policy

over what we've gotten under Joe Biden. But you're right to say this is all guesswork because we don't know and she doesn't make it clear, and I think it's the one consistent with Kamala Harris is just that she is a political shape shifter. You know, she is what she needs to be in the moment based on how she's reading the tea leaves at the time. You know, originally she's the tough on crime lady in California. This is just emblematic of the sort of political shift she's undergone.

Then she's you know, the criminal justice reformer when she's in the Senate, when she's running for present and thinks that's to her political benefit. She's for Medicare for all when she thinks she's going to try to get to the left and that's the best lane in the Democratic primary, than when donors are like, we don't like that, She's like, I don't like it either. So she's a shape shifter, and you know, it's it's all. She doesn't even know really what she thinks about it.

Speaker 2

And that's why I worry the most, because on Ukraine, the people in this in this town have lost their freaking minds. They would let Ukraine in Tonato, that let Georgia in Tonato. I mean, we're gonna go all out like Neo Khan fever dream. And so I mean, honestly, I'm I am truly terrified of what she would do on Ukraine and Russia. And I think it would be ten x more consequential than anything else.

Speaker 1

Don't know that it could be my person. What Biden's done. It seems like Christal I mean, letting Ukraine and NATO. Nobody's more obsessed with NATO than Joe Biden.

Speaker 2

But at least he didn't let Ukraine. In Letting Ukraine and to NATO will be the big policy question of twenty twenty six or whatever, whenever the stupid war finally ends, And at least with Trump. I don't think you would do it. But Kamala I think she would do it, and that is actually a nuclear war level event. But look, we'll see, you know, we'll get to I want to this, by the way, Why I want to see her do it?

Speaker 10

Damn?

Speaker 2

These are real questions, right, Yeah, in the old structure, we would have at least had a foreign policy debate. But you know, this time around, is she even going to answer a real question like we need to know the answers of these things? No doubt about it.

Speaker 1

All Right, Let's move on to the latest with regard to the attempted assassination of Donald Trump. Still stunning revelations coming out about the failures on that day. The latest, we had testimony from FBI Director Christopher Ray confirming reporting that the shooter was able to fly a drone over the area shortly before this rally. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

Speaker 11

We have recovered a drone that the shooter appears to have used. It's being exploited and analyzed by the FBI lab. The drone was recovered in his vehicle, so at the time of the shooting, the drone was in his vehicle with the controller. In addition, our investigation has uncovered do you know what time a day he flew it and

if he flew it on the days too. So in addition, it appears that around three point fifty pm, four o'clock in that window on the day of the shooting, that the shooter was flying the drone around the area eleven.

Speaker 5

That's want to be clear.

Speaker 11

But when I say the area not over the stage and that part of the area itself, I would say about two hundred yards give or take away. That we think, but we do not know. So again, this is one of these things that's qualified because of our ongoing review. That he was live streaming, you know, viewing the footage from that again about eleven minutes and around the three fifty four o'clock PM rang, two hours before. He's flying a drone in the vicinity of about two hundred yards away.

Speaker 1

Two hours before the rally, two hours before the route lange.

Speaker 2

How does nobody notice it? I was just telling you at my wedding, the photographer used a drone. You can notice the damn thing hundreds of feet away. So nobody is security perimeter is looking up and saying, hey, what's going on with this? I mean, anyone who's ever been by the White House recently, there's drones everywhere and they're all Secret Service drones, so they know what drones are, Like, yeah, they know. We know what is supposed to be there

and what's not. I mean, I've even read crystal about anti drone jamming technology in war zones or being used by Mexican drug cartels, so they have better jamming tech or a prison or something like that. How do they know and have better tech than for the president's rally? That's crazy, I mean the whole thing. And then I've been reading a little bit about how the Secret Service

admits that they denied resources to Trump. That's I mean, just I mean, frankly outrageous, just because when we look at now what the threat environment was like and how their level of incompetence here has been manifested with their lack of questions. The lady didn't even want to resign until now. I mean, I just think this agency truly needs to be rooted top to bottom. It is clear

over the last two decades they have failed dramatically. Yeah, and every sign has been there, the Columbia Hooker thing, the multiple Obama failures where somebody shot at the White House and they didn't notice until broken glass was found later somebody jumped the fence was able to get in. I'm trying to think more. There's been a few other episodes, Carol Leining. I think over the Washington Post has detailed

all of this. I think in every instance it's clear Congress has got to take over and they completely need to gout this thing.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean, a bullet touched the former president not negotiable, like impossible.

Speaker 1

And the stone walling is insane.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

The fact that they identified this shooter like half an hour, Yeah.

Speaker 2

I know, before he's able to photo the rooftop.

Speaker 1

They saw, mississis so he tried to bring in a range fighter, they identified him, they lost sight of him. You've got ordinary people are like, there is a dude with a gun on that roof and President Trump is still allowed to go out on the stage and continue his speech. It just absolutely insane. We're also learning a little bit more about of the interesting searches that this shooter was apparently engaged in googling prior to this attempt

at assassination. Let's take a listen to director right here.

Speaker 10

One of the things that I can share here today that has not been shared yet is that we've just in the last couple of days found that from our review to your point about devices, analysis of a laptop that the investigation ties to the shooter reveals that on July sixth, he did a Google search for quote how far away was Oswald from Kennedy? And so that's a search that obviously is significant in terms of his state

of mind. That is the same day that it appears that he registered for the Butler rally.

Speaker 1

So how far away was Oswald from Kennedy? And then that same day he registers.

Speaker 2

For the rest. That is one IQ thing in that he thinks Oswald shot Kennedy. So Now, how smart that this guy actual so turns out he was an idiot if you didn't know that already, if you actually believed that the magic bullet theory or whatever is correct. But in his case, that's the irony of it is that in his case is that it is so obviously believable

that it was a massive security failure. Now that we learn about every single instance, and the only true miracle in this shot or in this is not the shot itself, is that Trump turns his head at the last minute and survives and doesn't get his head bullet. You know, we don't get a pink misshot on national television and high definition. I can't imagine what the country would look like in something like that. I know, Oh god, God, be horrible. We also can talk about the Secret Service director.

Let's put this up there on the screen, finally resigning after being pressured by the both members of the House Oversight Committee. I do want to say, I want to give commendation. You know, rarely will cheer for bipartisanship. This actually is the one moment where Jamie raskin Rocanna, you know, comer Republicans Democrats. Everybody was like, oh no, absolutely not.

They're like, you got to go. Probably some of it is self interest in that all of them have also had threats to their lives, but part of it is also I mean again, like let's live in the context of the Pink misshot on TV. That's great, we can't unsee that as a nation like period. The Zuppruto film was way after. I mean to live with that, the consequence the trauma like the Greathing and the RNC and everything that would have possibly happened. I mean, I know

somebody who said civil war. I don't know if that's necessarily true, but something, I mean, you know, something horrible would have happened. So I want to at least commend them for in Washington. It is so rare to see accountability. Now we don't start here. It's a good starting point. This isn't just the finishing thing or whatever. But at least they actually came together and they're like, no, we're not stand for this.

Speaker 7

We got to go.

Speaker 1

Honestly, it wasn't saying she lasts as long.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's should gone the next day, right.

Speaker 1

Though, no one should delude themselves into thinking then it's like problem solved. It was just this one, lady, she was the issue. No, there is a top to bottom issue with this age. I don't think there's any doubt about that. And so this is where the conversation should begin,

not end. But the fact that she remained for even a day after this all unfolded, especially when we immediately were learning about the stunning nature of the security failure, and she had the temerity to go on TV and say, well, we didn't position eight speakret service stations on that roof because it was sloped right where there's a safety isshue. Oh my god, yeah, believable.

Speaker 2

Wait what what did you say, lady? They're like that because that's exactly where any normal person would be, which is why fluidrone, which is why as a range finder outside the premiere there are cops inside of the building. Somebody's got a picture of him, somebody's confronting him. I mean, it's just a cluster all the way, you know, to I don't know, I mean, it's certain. And this is also the problem too, with stoking conspiracy. Everyone's like, oh,

we need to stop stoking conspiracy. It's like, yeah, but people believe I think rightfully that usually security is pretty good at these things.

Speaker 1

I've been to a million presidential events. It's a pain the ass sometimes.

Speaker 2

I would never, in my wildest dreams think that a gunman could get this close, having been through the security perimeter so many times, and I have experienced it, not just watching it on TV. So for a lot of people out there, I mean, it's just too shocking to behold. I don't we still need a lot of answers. I see that there's a new story out with some more details and we can take a look and everything. But I think we're still at the very beginning of this.

Speaker 11

I really do.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think that's right, all right.

Speaker 2

I enjoy being back. Geez the two hours catch up on it. I miss everybody so much. Thank you all for the congratulations. That was very very nice of everyone. And we'll see you all next week and if there's any breaking news, I'm sure you'll see us again.

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