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We're going to get to you in a minute. Biden's big speech and this ceasefire proposal that maybe his, maybe Israel's, maybe Jimas's. We'll get to all of that with our guests in a minute. But we have some other major breaking news with regard to Israel and Joe Biden. Let's put this up on the screen. So Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin NETANYAHUO, fresh off of likely facing international criminal court ARRUSS warrants, has now officially been invited to deliver and address to Congress.
We can put this up on the screen.
All four congressional leaders signed off on this invitation. After weeks of delay, the letter US went out, So Sager, thanks to Mike Johnson, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, and to King Jeffries, true bipartisan uniparty coming together, all of them to invite a man who continues to carpet bomb babies and centerate children inside of tents where they've been discored.
What is so foolish about this is I do not understand how these reel establishment and how the US Congress did not learn its lesson from twenty fifteen that moment. I mean, and you'll definitely know this, Crystal, back during the Iran Deal. At that time, the consensus around Israel was probably ten times more ironclad than it is today. And look, I know what everybody thinks, but that means you really can't imagine what it was like back then.
What broke open any ability to even criticize an Israeli prime minister was the flagrant violation of international norms of an Israeli prime minister coming to the United States at the behest of the opposition party to openly speak against the international priority and the foreign policy priority of the President of the United States, who at that time was
Barack Obama. That little little thing cracked open the ability to criticize Apak, which mobilized against the Iran Deal bob Prime Minister Netanyahu and actually gave Democrats the ability to back their president Barack Obama against the leader Netanyahu. And from that very very day, the Israeli Party or the Israeli government has basically aligned itself fully with the Republican Party, where the Republican Party will always one hundred percent go
to bat for Israel. Mount Don't get me wrong, It's not like the Democratic Party of today has not been also going along with it. But as you and I know, with the base where they are and the younger voters on top of enough of you know, these people don't get enough attention. It's not just the ilhan Omars of the world. There's a lot Rokan, I mean, many others.
And is risking his seat market taking hands.
You know, these are not household names. But who are out there being like listen, I'm not voting for this anymore. That is still extraordinary, never would have happened, or even like a Chris van Hall, right, a Chris van Holl again, he's continued to vote for it.
But the fact that he even talks differently about with Warren, it's like standard issue Democrat, you know, who's like close to leadership that will even talk critically of Israel, speak critically of the Biden.
Administration's approach to Israel. It is different than it was even just a few years ago. I mean, it's just remarkable to me because again this goes back to where we were talking about the Ukraine segment, all the talk about human rights, international law, Putin's a war crimne, all.
Of this stuff.
Bibing at Yaho is facing a West Warren's from the ICC for war crimes. The ICJ has just on the heels of them saying or after they said, this is like applausibly a genocide and we're going to investigate. Now they've issued an injunction saying you have to stop this invasion of Raffa. They did not stop the invasion of Raffa. Not only that Biden himself there was a red line with regard to invasion of Rafa that they completely blue pass, and there's a full on invasion, completely humiliating him and
once again exposing his total weakness. You have Bibi's own government falling apart. Benny Gantz and Yoev Golant, who are the other two ministers in the war cabinet. So it's bb Yoev Glant and Benny Gantz. So those two are basically ready to quit the war cabinet. The country is in chaos with you know, mass protests and huge divisions over what to do going forward, just with regard to the hostages. They you know, overwhelmingly support the extent and
the horror of these wars. The society does. But nevertheless, he's on the rocks. You had Chuck Schumer previously, Mry gave him holding. He needs to go calling for regime change.
What happened to that? What happened to that?
And now's the moment when you're going to rescue this guy with this huge honor and have him come and address Congress like it's just grotesque. It's honestly just grotesque for them to do this at this moment. And and on top of this, we have additional Biden officials who continue to resign over just unconscionable situations that they are being put in. So this is Alex Smith. He was interviewed over on Democracy Now. He's a former contractor for USAID.
He says he was pushed out of USAID Samantha Power, you know, big humanitarian, etc. So I wrote a whole book about genocide. After he made a presentation on maternal and child health impacts of the Israeli war on Gaza, they told him, you can either resign or get fired. How dare you write a report about maternal and child health impacts of the war on Gaza. He decided to resign. Here is what he had to say to democracy Now.
It was told to remove words like Palestine, Palestinians, Israel, Gaza border, and several others, and then there was a column of preferred language. I went along with that. I removed the word Palestine from the organization name UNFPA Palistine because that was objected to. I removed a map that UNOCHE provided that was acknowledged as an accurate map, but that couldn't be included because it showed the borders and
the sea borders of Gaza. Also on that Monday, I was told this is a very sensitive issue because an hour before we were having our chat, the ICC request for an indictment came down from the prosecutor, and so I was told that it's a sensitive issue because of that.
I mentioned that I was a legal fellow at the ICC back when I was in law school that I had worked on specifically starvation as a weapon of war, and that was an area of interest of mine, and that I thought it would be useful to talk about international humanitarian law frameworks as they apply to every country, Gaza included. And I think that set off alarm bells. There were many more layers of editing, and then on Tuesday,
I was told that the presentation was canceled. Before I was told the presentation was deleted from the conference.
Website, Congress Member Castro said, so there's famine already occurring there. Samantha Power said yes. Castro then asked Power how many children were at risk of dying in the coming weeks due to famine. She said, in northern Gaza, the rate of malnutrition prior to October seventh was almost zero. It's now one in three, one in three kids. So was she aware of the demand that was made of you to change all the language.
I don't know. I don't know who in leadership was told about the presentation. I know that there was a lot of chatter that I wasn't privy to about my presentation in the days leading up to it, But I don't know if she has seen the presentation slides or my resignation letter.
So, in addition, we covered last week a State Department official named Stacy Gilbert who also had resigned. We're getting more details over the specifics of her resignation.
Put this up on the screen.
So she'd sent an email to her colleagues explaining she was leaving because of an official finding by the department she worked in that Israel was not deliberately obstructing the flow of food or other aid in the Gaza, according
to the posts. She took issue in particular with the former State Department report to Commerce on mid tenth noting Israel to not fully cooperate in the first months of the Gaza war, but it had significantly increased humanitarian access more recently, in fact, after a spike in humanitarian deliveries in late April and early May, they have fallen to near zero in the weeks since. So she's effectively blowing the whistle at this point, saying this report was a croc.
They're just lying in this report, and it's an untenable situation for me as a professional, and that is why she decided to resign. So you have in both instances officials resigning over the suppression of accurate information about what Israel is doing with regards to Gaza.
Yeah, it's important.
I mean, really, what we're watching is like the disintegration of a lot of the humanitarian people who work in the Biden administration at the actual bureaucratic level.
Because these people I've actually.
Met many of them.
I kind of went to school with a lot of these Yeah, these types, they really believe in that mission. Kind of what we talked previously about with respect to Ukraine. They're probably the most Slava Ukraine people out there, Like this is horrible, this is a legal invasion. They're big, like in an international law respectors, you know, and all
of that. And so for them to watch this kind of revert right back to real politic almost in a way, or not even really, but at least in terms of the way the Biden administration justifies the Israeli actions and goasa.
That's a bridge too far from them.
I mean, that violates thirty years really of their understanding of the international system Samantha Power is probably the best example.
Now let me be clear, I think her ideology is deeply destructive and wrong, but she wrote the entire book to justify a doctrine called responsibility to Protect, which basically says that the United States, anywhere where humanitarian law as we understand it is being violated, should use the force of the US military and of the US Empire to work directly to make that happen, regardless of the security
real politic cost. Now I deeply, deeply disagree with that, but that ideology, and she herself is really what rules. What I would say is the international relations student and others who kind of came up in that era like I did and ended up working at a place like USAID or for the Biden campaigner anywhere else.
So for them, I mean, I get it because I literally know these people. That's why they can't stomach what's happening right now.
The problem with her doctrine is it can be used far too easily, and is used far too easily to just engage in interventions or wherever the hell of the US feels like it. And you know, use, you know, these liberal humanitarian justifications for just going in and meddling with other people countries. So and you know, again not because of the humanitarian peace, but because of our own interest as perceived by the elites.
In this country. But she wrote a book.
She got a Pulitzer for this thing problem from How America and the Age of Genocide, talking all about, you know, why the problem of genocide persists, and how America becomes complicit and ignores these problems, et cetera, et cetera. Now here you are here, you are so pressing a report on the horrors being inflicted on women, mothers and children in Gaza. So yeah, anyone with like a shred of self respect, it just it becomes a bridge too far.
It's one thing probably if the report's okay, they're being massaged as that USAID contractor was talking about.
Oh you know, some of the language was changed.
I could kind of like live with that, but it gets to a point where it's like, no, now, this just doesn't reflect reality, Like you're just lying and it's blatant and it's brazen. Not everyone has completely lost their soul in the way of like Matthew Miller. I don't think John Kirby ever had one. You know, the dude that people outrageously say looks like you whatever his name is.
These other states that is to use to use their term that is a blood libel right against me and against our people. He's not even from the same region of India, the right, We don't all look the same. That's like saying a dude from West Virginia is the same as some guy from Los Angeles, right, It ain't the same folks, all.
Right, Well, anyway, the biggest problem with him is that, like, I mean, they'll just you see these increasingly preposterous situations and things that they try to defend, which are I mean, it's it's just so brazen that you even have what's his name, Ed O'Keeffe, who's like, how many more charred corpses?
Like that's how hard even the mainstream press is going at this point, because they're just they're just sick of being lied to and propagandized on a daily basis, at least those of them who even have a shred of a shred of self respect and integrity. So in any case, noteworthy that you continue to have this letter of resignations, and also very noteworthy what they have to say about the direct lies and suppression of accurate information coming out of.
The Godza Strip.
Let's go ahead and get to this huge news with regard to Joe Biden. So this was a crazy situation. We're going to have omar on in just a minute to help us make sense of it. So last week, pretty soon after the whole Trump verdict came out, we get this notice that Biden is going to give a major address on them to least and on Israel Palestine, which was weird because it's like, you know, you probably want to let the Trump news like this is good
for you. You probably want to let that settle. But okay, let's see what you have to say. So he comes out and he announces what he describes as a ceasefire proposal that he makes a big show of saying came from the Israelis. Now, there were few things that were weird about this. First of all, it sounded very much like actually a proposal that came from Hamas not that long ago, that Hamas had agreed to and the Israelis rejected.
In addition, in spite of the fact that he claims this came from the Israelis, he also spent a lot of time in the speech trying to persuade the Israelis that they should accept the deal that they purportedly.
Had themselves developed.
But then nevertheless goes on to you know, put the onus on Hamas and say, you know it's this is on you, and you're the ones who have to accept this deal. So there's a lot that was strange and confusing going on here. The timing of it was also interesting, coming on Friday with the Sabbath starting, knowing that there was going to be no ability for the Israeli government to react for a full day, so that was noteworthy
as well. In any case, let's take a listen to a little bit of what Joe Biden had to say, and then we can tell you about the reaction and what the hell is going on here.
Take a listen.
After intensive diplomacy carried up by my team, my many conversations leaders of Israel cutter in Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries, Israel has now offered Israel is offered a confrehensive new proposal. It's a roadmap to an endurance, cease fire and the release of all hostages. Staces work relentlessly to support Israeli security, to get humanitarian supplies in the Gaza. You get a ceasefire and a hostage deal to bring
this war to an end. Yesterday, With this new initiative, we've taken an important step in that direction, and I want in love with you today as to where we are and what might be possible. But I need your help. Everyone who wants peace now must raise their voices. Let the leaders know they should take this deal, work to make it real, make it lasting, and forge a better future out of the tragic terror attack and war. It's time to begin this new stage. But the hostage them home,
for Israel to be secure, the suffering to stop. It's time for this war to end.
Time for this war to end. All right, let's put the details of this proposal up on the screen. Some things are left, I think intentionally vague, but this is the framework that the White House tweeted out along with texts that said Israel has now offered again putting this on Israel, a roadmap to an enduring ceasefire and the release of all the hostages. Yesterday this proposal was transmitted to katarb to Hamas. Today I want to lay on its terms of the world. So this is a three
phase deal. It's similar to what we has been floated and bandied amount for a while. But you've gotten phase one, a complete ceasefire whichra all of Israeli forces from populated areas in Gaza, release of some hostages, and some remains of hostages. Palestinian civilians can return to their homes in Gaza. That has been a key demand from the hamaside, and a surge and humanitarian aid in Phase two, which according
to Biden, and this is actually critical. Phase one would continue with the complete ceasefire until the Phase two details could all be worked out. That was previously a major sticking point on the Israeli side. Okay, Phase too permanent and to hostilities exchange for the release of remaining living hostages. Israeli forces withdraw from Gaza, and in phase three you have major reconstruction plans. This is quote unquote day after final remains of hostages are returned to their families. We
have some reaction from all sides to this. Again proposal that supposedly came from the Israelis. Let's put this up on the screen from bb Net and yaho. He says Israel's conditions for ending the war have not changed. The destruction from maasa's military and governing capabilities, the freeing of all hostages, and ensuring that Gaza no longer poses a threat to Israel. Israel will continue to insist these conditions
are met before permanent ceasefire is put in place. The notion that Israel will agree to a permanent ceasefire before these conditions are fulfilled is a non starter.
A non starter.
Now, he doesn't definitively say no to this proposal, but the language seems to suggest there was another statement from the israelis Let's put this up on the screen. This is a statement from the Prime Minister's office, again from Bibi. The Government of Israel's United and its desired to return the hostages as soon as possible is working to achieve
this goal. The Prime Minister authorized the negotiating team to present a proposal to that end, which would also enable Israel to continue the war until all its objectives are achieved, including the struction from US as military and governing capabilities. The actual proposal put forward by Israel, including the conditional transition from one phase to the next, allows Israel to uphold those principles so that one is a little more
ambiguous in terms of the orientation. Of course, the far right ministers Ben Gaveran's Mochritz immediately freaked out, we could put this up on the screen. They told nan Yaho that if this proposal is implemented, they will leave the coalition, they will top the government if he goes through with this. And you know, Socager, I'm interested to get your reaction meanwhile, and we'll get to this in a minute. Hamas actually
responded positively said they're interested in engaging with this. So I'm not really sure what's going on here, I think so. I think the vagueness of what Biden put forward is a key piece here. The critical sticking point between the Israelis and Hamas has always been Hamas wants a complete end to the war and the Israelis don't, at least
not at this point. I mean, we just had an Israeli minister come out and say this is going to go on till the end of the year, like we're nowhere close to being finished.
Year.
You've had Bibe saying consistently like we're nowhere close to done, and no indication that he's ready to.
Wrap this war up whatsoever.
So there are a lot of things pointing in conflicting directions. I think what happened is that the Israelis did put forward something that was colorably close to this, at least under duress from Biden and within the war cabinet from Yoev Galant and Benny Gantz. Biden sort of seized on that in what would be a clever maneuver to put pressure on the Israelis if it was combined, yes, with any willingness to withhold weapons and actually use any sort of leverage.
To accomplish this goal.
But since that is not being put on the table whatsoever, it's probably just another opportunity for Biden humiliation.
Absolutely. I think you're correct.
My general read is, like you said, there was some sort of handshake agreement or understanding which the Israeli government had kind of agreed to in principle.
Biden's like, look, we're going to roll with this.
We're just going to I mean, it's a clever move, you know, that people have done in the past, Akin to during the Cuban missile crisis.
Khruschet says, it's two notes.
We only respond to the first one, and we just decided that the second one never mattered, except very critically in this case, is that all political incentives in that country are against Bbe actually agreeing to this under pressure, and there was no commeserate actual threat like in that
situation of ever doing anything. I only don't know really what to make of this because all the reporting currently indicates that the Israeli government did agree at least to some of this in principle, but they don't have any real Okay, let's separate a couple of things. There's actual cease fire deal, and there's also a lot of what Biden said, as I understand it is the very first time that he's ever said, but the war has to end and not a temporary ceasefire number one, number two,
and let's not forget about this too. He is saying, at least this is his opinion and presumably that of US intelligence. Hamas has been degraded to the point where there will no longer be in October seventh, akaa, the actual you know, the actual war outlay from the beginning, the goal of war has been achieved. And third, what he's really committing to is not quote unquote the total
destruction of Hamas. He is effectively admitting that US policy right now is that, yeah, Hamas terrorists have been degraded, but working with these people in some political fashion for the future day after Gaza is basically non ago.
All of that.
I agree with, actually, but you know, do these Raelies accept that condition? Will the American political right except that condition obviously?
Know?
So that's really where a lot of the.
Problem comes right now, right So it reminds me of the way that the Biden administration tried to persuade Israel when it came to so you recall the whole Israel Iran exchange. Israel attacks and Iranian embassy and kill some of their high level military commanders. Iran then response, and the US tried to persuade Israel like we shot down all their stuff that they shot it. Take that as
a win, like, declare victory. And that's basically what is being said here too, is I mean the subtext is your original goal of destroying him oud Like we all know that that is ridiculous, was ridiculous, has always been ridiculous.
So just frame what you've done as a win.
Just we like, eh, they're degraded and this many battalions taken down this much of the tunnel system, and we promised they can't do another October seventh whatever, Like, take that as the win and wrap this thing up again. Since there's no willingness to actually or US power in this regard, it's only war words.
How much does it mean? Not a whole lot.
But to your point Zager about we have gotten confirmation from a number of sources that the Israelis did somewhat agree to some facets of this or some semblance of what Biden put for We could put this up on the screen. You had a senior Israeli official say the quote, the plan presented by Biden is indeed the offer made by the War cabinet. Again, the war cabinet is bibing at Yahoo. You have Galant and Benny Gantz through the
mediators to Hamas. However, there is one main difference between the President's speech and the actual offer made by Israel. Quote Israel has never agreed that negotiations between Stage one and Stage two can continue indefinitely and during that time the cease fire last. This might mean Hamas can keep the hostages that were not freedom continue to negotiate forever, thus achieving the end of the war, will still holding onto the hostages. The attached quote from the President's speech
is what they are referring to. But again the main point is that they confirm it's an Israeli proposal.
This is a key part though.
Because Okay, if you recall, in Phase one, there is a complete ceasefire and there's an exchange of a significant number of the hostages and the hostage remains, So it could be that the Israelis in floating something approximating this. We're thinking they could do another like temporary ceasefire, sort of like what was done early in the war, and get a lot of their hostages back and claim that as a victory and then go back to the war
and tie up the negotiations. Because what they're saying here this senior is really official is no, no, no. We never agree that that Phase one would last indefinitely with the ceasefire until we work out Phase two. We want to be able to go back to shooting and bombing if we can't work out the details of Phase two. So that may have been the thinking is we'll put forward what appears to be a decent faith like Phase
three ceasefire, total ceasefire proposal to play. Kate Hamasu's demand is that this thing ends completely with no intention of really ever going ba on Phase one. That's kind of what I read as one possibility into this. As I mentioned before, I let's put this up on the screen. From the Hamas side, they say they positively view the
Gaza seasfowl. Read this specific language quote. Hamas confirms its readiness to deal positively in a constructive manner with any proposal that is based on the permanent ceasefire and the full withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza strip, the reconstruction of gods, the return of the displace to their places, along with the fulfillment of a genuine prisoner swap deal if the occupation clearly announces commitment to such deal. So that's the HMAS side of things. We'll see how they
react to the specifics in this proposal. But Soger, that's kind of.
Where we are.
Yeah.
I think that's a good place to bring in our guest, Omar Badar, he's standing by.
Let's get to it.
All right, guys.
Very happy to be joined in studio today by Omar Badar. He is a Palestinian American political analyst who has been just such a great resource on all of these things.
So great to see you, Omar, Thank you so much.
Good to seeing me here.
Yeah, our pleasure.
So we just went through what Biden said, the ceasefire propose that is purportedly from the Israelis. But the Israelis aren't so sure that they're in love with this thing at this point. I mean, what did you make up this whole situation?
Yeah, look, I think it's worth backing up just to kind of set the context for this a little bit in talking about what Israel's goals are in this process.
Right, they have two stated goals.
One is the defeat of Hamas militarily and the second is the forcible retrieval of hostages. And those two declared goals have been a complete and total failure on their part,
There's just no question about it. There is a third, not officially declared, but very strongly implied, and it's very visible when you look at the situation on the ground, which is effectively to ethnically cleanse Gaza through this genocidal violence campaign that they are currently carrying out, and that they see as a way to actually achieve one of those goals, the defeat of Hamas in an indirect way, you know, to use the language of Benjamin Attiniaoho himself,
he's talking about thinning the population in Gaza down to a minimum, and that's how he sees a path forward where he can present an image of victory when there is.
No victory otherwise for Israel to be had.
So cease fire proposal that Israel has put forward has been one that is predicated on Israel getting to have its cake and eat it too.
So they want the temporary ceasefire.
Hamass releases all the hostages and then the genocidal vinyls continue so that Israel can still get the victory that they want out of it. Obviously, that's a ridiculous proposition. It's a non starter. There is no incentive for Hamas to accept it, and it's not going to lead to anything positive. This is not anybody who starts from a functioning moral compass cannot go along with a proposal like that.
Okay, and then let's get to the ceasefire proposal itself. What is the incentive here? What are the details? And then the incentive so we set it up, you know, in terms of that, But what are the details that jumped out at you as to whether this is sincere or not and what you will actually be accepted.
Yeah, So in contrast to this, Israeli position, the Hamass position is we're willing to give up the hostages, but we need a permanent ceasefire. Sure, and there seems to have been an Israeli proposal at some point that has that as a staggered process, where you start with a temporary six weeks ceasefire, you do most of the hostage prisoner exchanges, and then you potentially transition into a permanencyas
fire that is based on some conditions. In this case, Israel's conditions are still Israeli victory, the defeat of Hamas, the elimination of Hamas rule and Gaza. And I think what Biden did here is he ad libbed his own little detail, his own spin on the Israeli plan, which is to say, this transition from phase one to phase two is one in which the ceasefire will just continue indefinitely so long as there is talking happening, and that
is suspicious for both Israel and Hamas. Interestingly, from Hamas's perspective, what they're worried about is that they do give up most of the hostages in phase one. Israel says, Okay, the negotiations are not working. Right back to the genocide and so there's no incentive for them to say as
to that. From Israel's perspective, what Nataniyaho's worried about is that this, and it seems to be the more likely interpretation, is that Biden is trying to chorus Israel into a permanencyas fire by saying that between phase one and Phase two, this is an indefinite cease fire as long as some kind of talking is happening, And what there were about is that you are going to get to phase one and as long as Hamas is engaging in some kind
of conversation, then the ceasefire is effectively permanent. That's where
the suspicion comes from on both sides. But from Nataniejo's perspective, given the fact that when you listen to Biden's speech, it's heavily emphasized on the idea that there is no total Israeli victory, that people in Israel's cabinet are not going to like this proposal, it seems to be shifting in the direction of pressure on the Israeli government to really start letting go of the fantasy that they're going to have some sort of epic victory at.
The end of this, and the most just trying to frame what they've done already is look, you've as good job, guys.
And the most critical part of that is that I think this shift in Biden's approach came after the Israeli military announced just a few days before that that they anticipate the campaign and Gaza to last at least another eight months. Biden knows this is not going to work for him. The election is coming up well before that. The level of rage and anger that exists domestically within the United States about this genocidal campaign that the US is arming and funding is just you know.
Really through the roof.
And finally, Biden seems to be understanding that this policy of allowing Israel to behave with impunity to do whatever it wants, the car blanche approach that he has given the Israeli government is going to lead to very very negative consequences for Biden. And now he's trying to up the pressure a little bit to move things around.
Because he's still thinking, like, Okay, I think I could still rescue the real act if I get this set some sort of a ceasefire and some sort of a Saudi normalization deal and that's what he's really betting on. So when you have them coming out and saying we're not wrapping this up till twenty twenty five at least, Yeah, he's seeing the writing on the wall of how foolish that is, how unlikely that is to.
Happen, and frankly, the fact that it's obviously all part of a ploy that Nataniahu wants to get Trump into office so that he can have completely needs to, you know, just loosen the reins entirely for Israel to do whatever it once.
And I want to emphasize what you were just saying about this Phase one phase two because it seems like a detail, but it's really important. This is what we were just talking about before you came in. A senior Israeli official said that the plan presented by Biden is indeed the offer made by the War Cabinet. However, there
is one main difference. Quote Israel has never agreed that negotiations between Phase one and Phase two can continue indefinitely and during that time the ceasefire last, and that's exactly what you're pointing to here, Omar, And just to underscore for people again, it seems like what israel thought is that they could float this proposal that sort of meet some of the demands of Hamas. That way they can
get a lot of their hostages back. But then if the negotiations fall apart, so we never go to phase two, we just go back to shooting. We just go back to the campaign as it was before. So we can bring this form of a victory to the Israeli public of basically like you know, continued annihilation and destruction.
Yeah, a stre that's exactly right.
And the first time Israel presented this proposal without this indefinite ceasefire part between phases one and two, Hamas said no to it. And is really Press reported that Nataniajo has effectively relieved that Hamas had said no to it because he's very nervous about the prospect of Israel being in a position where they're going to be worse into a permanent ceasefire as a result of that, and it's not something for personal reasons, it's not something that he wants.
The second this onslaught ends is immediately the second that there is accountability for Benjamin Attaniahu, and it's you know, getting out of office is one thing, and potentially worse, this is about completely ruining his legacy, and he's just clinging with his clause, trying to salvage some image of victory, not just for his immediate political position, but for his legacy as well, and that's simply just not going to happen.
There is no realistic path forward.
And the question is how many more Palestinian children are going to be slaughtered in order to feed Nataniaja's fantasy? And at what point is our government going to say enough is enough?
So that's the question is then and then what is the fallout from this? Is this just going to dissolve like every other cease fire? I mean already these reelis have effectively disabout it at least somewhat.
The Hummus, as you said.
Is kind of supportive of it, but not really in terms of the talking. And then the US just seems to be on the phone all the time. So what is the likely you know, one week from now, what do you think is going to beepp.
Look, I think the only question that can answer that is to say, is Biden going to find a backbone on this or not? And so far, if the record is indicative of anything, it's that he does not have a backbone on this issue. But now that he has made this public statement, the level of humiliation for the President at this point, if Israel just knocks this proposal off and moves on carrying on doing whatever it wants, it's just deeply embarrassing, and it just speaks to something
fundamentally rotten in the relationship between the United States and Israel. Frankly, where for literally decades the official American position has been oppositioned to the Israeli occupation, opposition to settlements, calling for more Palestinian and freedom movement and statehood and so on.
But policy in practice is the exact opposite.
It is providing Israel with unlimited military funding, unconditional diplomatic support, using its veto at the UN left and right to shield Israel from accountability. That contradiction is just so obvious and so tragic and so frankly embarrassing to the United States across the world. And something's got to give at some point. And this is where we've upped the ante to a maximum. And if Biden one more time, I mean, just at this point, it's difficult to put into words.
Wow, help us understand the is rarely domestic political context, so that the war cabinet is just three people. It's Baby Nanas, you have Glant, the defense minister, it's Benny Gans. Benny Gans and you have Glan have both been making noises, issuing ultimatums, making noises about leaving this.
Cabinet you had.
Apparently smo Church and Ben Gevere were not read in on whatever this proposal originally was. They immediately freak out threatened to leave Bibe's coalition that could potentially topple his government. How are we of other Yeah? Or Lapie says no, we'll back you up, so the government will fall. What is what are the political calculations here for Bib at this.
Point, because unfortunately only four percent.
Of Jewish Israelis say that the IDEAF has gone too far in Gaza, However, there are splits and divides in society, specifically with regard to the hostages. There's been a huge protest movement that once the government to be war focused on bringing home the hostages. So how is how is his political future being determined in this moment?
Yeah, I think.
There's a contrast that both of these things are true. But when he talks about the threat that Smotrich and ben vere pose to his ministership if they were to quit, that government falls apart. That I think is the one that he's more invested in, because at the end of the day, the more pragmatic, when you know pragmatic in the Israeli context, we should always preface these things on benigansticide, those are competition for Natiniaho. These are not people that
Nataniaho can trust we're going to have his back. Really in the long term, they might have his back long enough to actually get this deal sorted out for the sake of getting some hostages back, But in the long term, they're not really invested in Nataniaho.
They see him as an opponent.
They want a different a change in leadership, and so Nataniaho has no long term incentive to actually go.
Along with that line.
And right now you have the dynamic is set that in a way where Nataniaho is being effectively accused of really straining their relationship between Israel and the United States to a maximum. But again, just when you look at what's happening domestically in the United States is even more disheartening. The way in which cong lines up Walt Wall to effectively back Natanyaho at a time in which Natiniajo is facing all this pressure domestically even in Israel of people
who want him to make that deal. Who's wanted by the ICC the prosecutor. The warrants are not officially out, but the ICC prosecutor is looking for a warrant for Nataniajo for the atrocious war crimes he has committed. And for this to be a time in which the US Congress is willing to give Nataniahu some backing, I think is incredibly trying, and.
In inviting him to come speak to them talk a little bit about the Saudi normalization deal that the Biden administration seems to really be you know, putting a lot of stock in really putting a lot of sort of political chips on.
That, you know, not just beyond this audio deal in particular, it's the Abraham Accords more broadly, are just such an inflated talking point that people just make so much more of them than actually there is to be merited. These are governments that are already secretly in alliance with Israel. They have a common enemy in the Iran. There are on the same team for the sake of domestic consumption. They're not eager to be on good terms with Israel
publicly because they know that's very costly. Even in Saudi Arabia, the polls about what people think of Israel, and it's.
Onslaught on Palestinians.
I mean just significant, very very significant, dominant opposition over ninety percent of people who want to see Saudi Arabia basically completely cut off Israel and isolate Israel as a result. So these governments understand that this is a deeply unpopular move to normalize relations. At the same time, they see the incentive to get closer to the United States, to operate more openly against Iranian interest in the region, and
so on. So they do want that deal, but talking about it as if it's some kind of peace deal,
this magnificent thing. There is no war to begin with, There is no conflict between these governments and Israel, So to even talk about it as some kind of grand peace deal, it's just completely ridiculous, And it's a talking point that Trump has used, and it's really unfortunate to see people like President Biden and many Democrats pay lift service to the idea that this is something that is really significant that ought to be replicated and promoted if
it actually means anything at the end of it.
I mean, this gets a broader question I think of.
You know, if Trump does get into office and this mess lands in his lap, how do you think it's going to play out for him?
So obviously I agree.
He will give Natseniau everything he wants in the short term or at the very least the Israeli government, But one of his grand motivations was creating peace. But behind the scenes, do you think that even after this, that it is possible for the Saudis, the UAE, and the other Gulf regimes to steal back some sort of Abraham Accords framework given the level of pushback they would get
in their own countries. Now, at this point, it seems to me that it's blown up, blown up the Abraham Accords probably for all time.
Yeah, it's it's interesting to see how that all plays out. Saudi Arabia has made very clear that basically any kind of normalization with Israel depends on Palestinians being back in statehood, right whether they actually stick to that long term, I mean, right now, it's a particularly enraging moment in the region. Whether when things die down that changes or not remains to be seen. But it's funny that there is this contrast between Trump and Biden on a personal level on
this issue. Trump on a personal level does not give a crap about Israel. It just really does not rear one with the other. It's all about him. But the incentives for him politically in the Republican Party is to be as pro Israel as possible.
And you see it in all of the rhetoric right now.
Everything is directed at Biden as being insufficiently pro Israel and how he's going to do more. And if Trump's history shows anything, it shows that indeed to be his calculus that he's put between Jared Kushner and David Friedman and all kinds of pro Israel extremists that have been put in place, giving Israel whatever it wants, recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, kicking out the Palestinian ambassador in the United States, shutting down the American Consul of the East Jerusalem,
all of that. I mean, it's very clear that it's most likely what Trump is going to do is in fact make things worse for purely personal interest reasons, even though he does not care about Israel one way or the other.
Biden is the exact opposite.
Biden has a deep emotional investment in Israel, but all of his political incentives are saying, cut this out. Your base does not want this policy of continuing to support this murderous onslaught. You know, it's an apartheid regime that is engaged in just absolutely horrific violence against an occupied people. And Israel's message to the world is there's no path
forward in which Palestinians are free. They have to live permanently under siege and occupation, and if they don't like it, they can leave, or if they don't want to leave, then they can die.
That's what Israel is offering.
And the idea that somebody who pretends to be concerned about human rights and freedom and democracy and all of that can sit here and back a government who stated policy is this, it's just absolutely outrageous. I mean, it's really it's difficult to find the worst to describe how ugly and distasteful and outrageous that kind of position is.
The last thing I was curious to get from you, Omars. We covered this somewhat mysterious shooting incident between Egyptian soldiers on the border and the IDF. One Egyptian soldier was killed. Neither government wants to talk about it. What did you make of that, the significance of it, What did you read into that?
Yeah, I don't think politically it's very significant. Obviously, anytime you've got two army shooting at each other, that is significant as an individual incident. But the Israeli government and the Egyptian government are very very close. I mean, the only real point of contention between them is whether Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Palestinians in Gaza, and Egypt has made clear absolutely they will not accept a flood of Palestinians crossing the border into their country.
That is the real point of tension.
But beyond that, they have every interest in maintaining a positive relationship between the two countries, and I think the Egyptians are trying to put more pressure on the United States to put an end to the onslaught in Gaza in order to reduce the likelihood that there is going to be a forcible transfer of Palestinians out of Gaza. But beyond that, those are governments that are effectively on the same team. The human rights violations of the Egyptian
government are absolutely unspeakable. Both of them are huge recipients of US military funding, so in the sense because they are on the same team in the broad scheme of things, I think they're both interested in playing the significance of this down and not really making anything out of it. It may have been just individuals on the border who decided to shoot at each other and things got out of had for a little bit, and everybody's eager to just move on from that, got it.
Well, Amar, really great to have you to have your analysis here. It's been very helpful for me, so thank you very much.
Thank you for joining me.
Thanks.
I really appreciate being with you.
Yep, and we'll see you guys later