¶ Intro / Opening
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We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints dot com. All right, let's turn it down to the full Tucker Carlson Ted Cruz interview. I gotta tell this, it's probably maybe one of the top five moments of my life was watching Ted Cruz get owned completely into the sun. This clip has been more viral than any news clip that I have seen in a long time.
I'm well left right, so it's everywhere.
Yeah, and I have to say, listen, I understand why the right loves this guy. It's fun when he's on your side. Well, this was a treat to watch. I have to say the whole thing.
I'm glad.
I'm glad to have you with us, at least for a moment. There's a reason he's been in generational talent.
For thirty years. Let's start, though.
There are several moments of this which I think are really important. First and foremost is actually getting to the core of Ted Cruz's ideology, of his explanations, and of the vicious tactics that a lot of people who are Israel supporters use to shut down the debate around striking Iran.
First and foremost is anti Semitism. Now, you're going to watch here in this clip where Ted Cruz says that one of his pledges sworn pledges when entering the United States Senate it was to be the main defender of the state of Israel, and then also accused Tucker Carlson at the same time of saying he is obsessed with Israel. Every accusation is a confession.
Let's take a listen.
It's just interesting because what you're now describing in a very defensive way, I will say, is foreign influence over our politics. Now, and you began, and it's so transparently obvious to everybody. I don't know why you would be embarrassed of it. You've said that you are sincerely for Israel. I believe you. I don't think you have some weird to agenda.
You seem to be, by the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing, the obsession with Israel. Well, we're talking
¶ Tucker Carlson Interviews Ted Cruz
about for it. You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking about Japanese, you're not talking about the Brits, you're not talking about the French. The question what about the Jews? What about the Jews? Like anti semi?
Now, Senator, you're just.
In the question you're asking why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy?
And that's what you just asked, hardly saying that, and I have that that's exactly what you just said.
Well, actually, I.
Can speak for myself and tell you what I am saying on behalf, not simply of myself, but on my many Jewish friends who would have the same questions, which is to what extent? And it's interesting you're trying to derail my questions by following me an anti semi, which
¶ Cruz's Pledge to Defend Israel
you are. I did not, of course you are. And and rather than be honorable enough to say it right to my face. I are city squeezy feeline way implying it or just asking questions about the Jews. I'm asking questions about the Jews I have. There's nothing to do
¶ Anti-Semitism Accusation and Debate
with Jews or Judy is and it has to with foreign government.
Is in Israel controlling our foreign policy. That's not about the you said I'm asked by. You're the one that just called me, I think a sleazy feline.
So it's sleazy to imply that I'm an anti Semite, which you just did.
No, I just you're asking give me another reason if you're not an anti Semi, give me another reason why the obsession is Israel.
I am, in no sense obsessed with Israel. We are on the brink of war with Iran, and so these are valid questions.
But you're not.
If I can finish, you asked me why I'm obsessed with Israel three minutes after telling me that when you first ran for Congress, you elucidated one of your main goals, which yes, to defend Israel. Yes, And I'm the one who's obsessed with Israel. I don't see a lawmaker's job as defending the interest of a foreign government, period, Any government, including the ones that my ancestors come from.
So that's my position.
That does not make me an anti Semite, and shame on you for suggesting otherwise.
And I mean that, yeah, that is exactly That is how that should be handled. Is that this guy says, one of my sworn pledges is to enter the United States Senate and be a sworn defender of the State of Israel.
Be the strongest defender of the State of Israel.
And then says, you are obsessed with Israel. You know why we're not talking about the UK. Look, if a UK wants to drag us into some shitty war, I'll talk about the UK all day long. If Japan wants to drag us and do some shitty war, I'll talk about that well.
And he says that they're talking about a Rod and the Mullus because we're not giving them.
We're not like giving them the bombs. We're talking about the country that.
We said billions of dollars to every year that has helped persuade our president.
And again he's a willing participant.
To get into an insane war, like of course we're going to talk about that.
That is yeah, and I love that he.
Calls him out on how he's just trying to.
Like suggest it, like fucking man up and say it to my face then, And I can't. I cannot tell you how many times I remember Dean Phillips doing this, in particular when I interviewed him where Yeah, well, why are you so interested in the Jews? Yes, first of all, no one said anything about the Jews. We're talking about a foreign government. And actually, thank you very much, it's quite anti semitic to conflate every Jew with this foreign governm if you want to talk about actual anti semitism.
So it felt so good to see him call out his sleazy feeline suggestion here instead of just listen, if you want to call me an anti semi do it.
Yeah, well, so is the best Israel is both a multi ethnic incredible democracy or it's a Jewish state, and it's like, well, which is actually twenty five percent of your own population? Oh yeah, by the way, I actually know something about population. Twenty five percent of that population is not Jewish, all right, And they brag about that all day long.
Right, They're like, oh look.
All yeah, but that's what they hold up, right, it's a multi democracy. They got better rides here than they do in any other country in the world. And it's like, well, oh, you're just talking about the Jews, right, It's like you can't have it both ways. And I was so glad to see this defenestration on the anti semitism question because they are the ones who use the anti Semitic tropes. You can't talk about the State of Israel without being
than an anti semi yourself. And look, this is part of a year's long campaign and especially post October seventh, to conflate Zionism and Judaism itself with the state, which, by the way, is anti Semitic. Remember, Joe Biden, not a Jew in the world would be safe if the State of Israel did not exist. They're more Jews living in America. Okay, there's a huge Jews Jewish population in America.
There's no place that is more unsafe for Jews than Israel.
¶ Conflating Judaism with State Policy
Yeah, at this point, right.
In terms of being bombed in the Middle stry, Yeah, would you rather live in New York City?
Would you rather live in Tel Aviv? Right now?
All right, let's get to apac then, because this was also an incredible moment because Tucker asks Ted Cruz whether APAK is the foreign lobby and why it's not required to be registered as such. And here you see Ted Cruz twist himself into knots about APAC.
Let's take a listen.
Well, I don't think I'm obsessed with this, okay, but I think a lot of people are in like the question.
Israel spies on us? Well, so does every other country. Why are you mad at israel I?
Guess no, No, I'm hardly the one who's I've never taken money from the Israel lobby?
Have you taken money from the israel A pack? So APAK raises a lot of money for me, But it's actually a missnomer because the people who raised money are individuals, So it's not the pack itself, but their individual members in the American Israeli UH friendship and foreign lobby. No, it's an American lobby. It's the A pack stands for
the America Israeli political action. What is it lobby for? So, to be honest, not a whole lot effectively, Listen, I came into to Congress thirteen years ago with the stated intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the United States Senate. I've worked every day to do that a pack. A lot of times APAC I wish were much more effective. Like they're there are the swamp terrified of a pack and APAC.
I'm not terrified of a pack at all. I'm you're the one who seems little uncomfortable. I'm asking now, I'm not uncomfortable all. I'm just asking what APAC does. My understanding having none, we could tell you that is the lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government.
Oh actually, and by the way, you want some evidence of that?
Who what c six? Please here up on the screen.
¶ Is AIPAC a Foreign Lobby?
Here we have a story from our friend David Dan just you know from yesterday Ryan sayline and Ryan grim is on that byline as well. A PAC demands democrats
quote stand with Israel. Okay, I don't know how much evidence that I need to shove in your face to show literal direct coord coordination between APAC and the State of Israel, including photos post October seven showing a PAC members in the same room as Benjamin Nutt and Yahoo in Israel, or the number of conferences that they hold here in Washington, DC and across the United States on every college campus in America, to basically turn US citizens
to foreign lobbyists. And by the way, fine, okay, but then just be registered under the law, which is under the Barker, Which is exactly the point that Tucker I know lots of.
People who lobby for foreign curners. He's like, I'm related to some of them, think his brother, they have to register? Why does an APAC? And then he asked Ted cru Is a really simple question, like because Ted Cruiz tries to oh, well, they're not just representing what the Natanyahu government wants. He's like, okay, I'm an example, one example. Of course he can't do it. Yes, Oh well I have to go back and look. Yeah, because there isn't one.
I have to go because there isn't one.
Because whatever it is that the current Israeli government, which has been led by Benjamin Attaniaho over quite a while now, you know, off and on for decades at this point, whatever they want, that's what APAC signs up for. How is that not foreign lobbying?
So exactly there, Well, now let's get to my personal favorite. Now. Look, I'm gonna put my cards on the table. I'm an atheist.
So anytimes people start citing scripture to justify their behavior like an in a national context. I'm getting pretty skeptical.
¶ AIPAC's Coordination With Israel
But this shit, I mean, look, I grew up around these people, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. But Tucker asked tud Cruz why he supports Israel. He says two reasons. First, and he starts to cite the Bible, and not just citing the Bible. There's this school I'm trying to get up to speed on this, So Christians, I apologize, which I believe is called dispensationalism, which is basically like taking the Bible the words applying them is
to be literally true. And in particular, here Israel as it's mentioned in the Bible is conflating that with the actual nation state of Israel, created in nineteen forty eight. So watch here Ted Cruz cite the Bible. Ben can't even quote which verse of the Bible that he is saying. And for the primary reason that he supports the state of Israel, let's take a listener.
Growing up in Sunday School, I was taught from the Bible those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. And from my perspective. I want to be on the blessing.
Side of things, of those who bless the government of Israel.
Those who bless Israel is what it is. Doesn't say the government of It says the nation of Israel. So that's in the Bible. As a Christian, I believe that. Where is that? I can find it to you. I don't have the scripture off the tip of mine. You pull out the phone and use it. It's in Genesis.
So you're quoting a Bible phrase. You don't have context
¶ Biblical Justification for Israel Support
for it, you don't know where the Bible it is. But that's like CRI theology. I'm confused.
What does that even mean? Tucker. I'm a Christian. I want to know what you're talking about. Does where does my support for Israel come from? Number one, because Biblically, we're commanded to support Israel.
But number two, no, no, no, hold on. You're a senator and now you're throwing out theology. And I am a Christian. I am allowed to weigh in on this. We are commanded as Christians support the government of Israel. We are commanded to support Israel. And what does that mean is we're told those who blessed Israel be blessed.
But what hold on? Define Israel? This is important? Are you kidding this majority Christian country define Israel? Could do you not know what Israel is? That would be the country you've asked like forty nine questions about.
So that's what Genesis refer That's what God is talking in the nation of Israel. Yes, and he's so does that the current borders the current leadership. He's talking with the political instity called Israel.
He's talking about the nation of Israel. Yet nations exists, and he's discussing a nation. A nation was the people of Israel is the nation is referring to in Genesis. Is that the same as the country run by Benjamin Yahu right now? Yes, yes it is. And by the way, it's not run by Benjamin Etnia who is a dictator. It's it's a.
Democratic but he's the prime minister.
Right But just just like you know, America is the country run by Donald Trump? Not actually the American people elected Donald Trump the same principle.
Sicily, I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel. Yes, and that is you believe that's what God was talking about is Genesis?
I do. But but that country's existed since when for thousands of years now, there was a time when it didn't exist, and then it was recreated just over seven.
But I'm saying, I think most people understand that line in Genesis to refer to the Jewish people God's chosen people.
That's not what it says.
I mean, this is batch crazy.
I mean, I'm just gonna, you know, remind people of Glenn Greenwall's joke here on our show we think Iran is a theocracy.
We what, all right, you know, give me some mulla if that this is the ship that's running my country.
Well, and here's the thing, is like it's funny, but it's.
¶ Defining Israel in Scripture
No, it's really curious.
It's deadly serious.
Go back to that text that Mika could be sent to Trump. That Trump then publicized the number of people in this in this government, including our ambassador to Israel and our Secretary of Events, who have this like end Times theology around this. Apparently who knows how many senators and members of Congress share this view as preposterous and absurd and disturbing, as it is offered by Ted Cruz that you are commanded as a Christian to do what Bibi Netanya, who wants you.
To do that's his position.
Okay, then you couple that with the absolute religious zealot psychos that command so much power in Netanyahu's government, and you put that together with very clear indications that Trump himself has some sort of Messiah complex after you know,
narrowly escaping death in Butler, Pennsylvania. As if this isn't terrifying enough, the fact that you think that you have people involved, powerful, the most powerful people involved, who think they are commanded by the BYI or divinely destined to effectuate some outcome here, that shit terrifies me me too. And so I know, you know, the Christians went in on what specifically that passage in the Bible is. I
¶ Critique of Religious Zealotry
hear have from Grok that it most commonly Israel refers the collective descendants of Jacob's twelve sons, not the fricking nation state that was created in nineteen forty eight arbitrarily, by the way, by.
The United States of America. I'll let them do that.
I just object to any biblical or religious text being used to justify wars, or foreign policy or national policy whatsoever. That is where I get off. Regardless of how you want to interpret any particular Biblical line.
Apparently in this dispensationalism and end times eschatology like these are Look again, I am not qualified to talk about this, and it's just not even really worth it. I would just look at it and be like this is preposterous, Like you have a United States senator here, I mean, you know this, look, I guess to go all religious and two thousand and six atheists. So what doing nineteen forty seven before Israel existed? Like who were they commanded to, you know.
To support?
Like what the fuck? I can't even get my mind around this stuff. But you know, this maybe is a I don't know. I know they don't listen, but I want people to know. In Israel they're laughing at you. The secular Jews who make up a huge portion of Israeli society. They think you're kooks and they think you're crazy. The secular edge, highly educated Jews who live in New York, in Los Angeles and Philadelphia or whatever.
They think.
They look at you like, you know, they're liberal Democrats. They think this is gross and weird. And yet you know, the only thing they're really using you for is your
biblical interpretation. To support a foreign state. When I went to Israel, I think ninety percent of the people on my plane were people like this, you know, from like evangelical churches and when if you have ever been to Jerusalem, I mean you know, it's full on, like ear piece in pastor in the in the front and they go to the cliff or wherever where the apocalypse.
Is going to. I've seen this stuff with my own eyes, and they believe it. They think it's serious.
And when they're there, by the way, the Israeli government uses them as pawns for American support. Now, look, they're not going to listen because you know they're listening to their churches and all this other. But the one thing I would at least ask is if you're religious and you have pride in your own beliefs, shouldn't you wonder if you're being taken advantage of. I promise you I've seen I met these people. They think you're a joke. They're laughing at you and using you as a tool
to support their own country and their foreign policy. That's really degrading in my opinion.
I mean, no, just what kind of a religion would compand you to support to endlessly support with no criticism a country that is actively.
Doing a genocide, like.
Because that is a religion, you should not want to
¶ Israeli Views on Christian Zionists
have anything to do with it. If that's the real command, you must endlessly but it is. I mean, at this point, there's really no dispute. You ask any legitimate scholar of genocide around the world, go look at what's.
Going on in Gaza. See.
I mean, we haven't even been able to cover the fact that these aid massacres are still going on day after day where they lure in innocent Palestinians and then desperate, hungry, starving Palestinians and then murder them as they try to seek some basic nourishment. Your God tells you to support that that uh uh, you got to convert to some other religion if that's what's commanded, because that is monstrously, outrageously gore tesque, And that is where religious zelotry, I'm sorry,
is such a cancer. It is such a cancer because then you think that you have some sort of divine right and commandment to commit horrific atrocities and turn your brain off because God commanded you to. I mean, there's reason why if you look throughround history so many of the worst crimes and atrocities are committed in the name of some sort of outrageous religious fanaticism, and that is
one of the elements here that is deadly serious. And you know, I really appreciate actually this exchange with Tucker, because I'm not a Russian. He is, so for him to be in there, and for Candice Owens to be out there also, I saw her doing her explanation saying, no, this is not what the biblical text means, and it is a grotesque absurdity for you to interpret it that
¶ Supporting Country Committing Genocide
your commandment as a Christian is to endlessly support whatever the policy of bb net Yahoo is like total insanity.
Yeah whatever.
I mean again, look, they're not going to listen. They probably don't even watch the show. They're watching Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or whatever. So I'm good luck to you. You want to continue to be a tool of a foreign government. I mean there again, they're laughing their asses off at you. I can promise I've seen it inside of that country. But whatever, it's your choice. It's a
free country. Last thing here a clip that will show everybody is about Donald Trump and the meaning of America first is back and forth between Tucker and Ted Cruz.
Let's take a listen.
You engage in reckless rhetoric with no faction. And to be clear, I'm not calling you. You are put out a newsletter attacking Donald Trump and calling him complicit John. Yes, you have and and by the way, pained for Donald Trump.
Yes, this is like after anti Semitism, this is the last refuge.
¶ Religious Fanaticism and Atrocities
You're an antiseminin and you hate Trump. Okay, I have Trump. I will read you put out a whole newsletter saying Trump is a rand in America first, and here's what Trump said in response. Well, considering that I'm the one that developed America first, and considering that the term wasn't used until I came along, I think I'm the one who decides that for those people who say they want peace, you can't have peace if Iran has a nuclear weapon.
So for all of those wonderful people who don't want to do anything about Iran having a nuclear weapon, that's not peace. That was directed at you.
Man.
This is you got me busted. No, I'm just saying, okay, I'm my views. Look, I like Trump. I can't paign for Trump. I know Trump.
I talked to him last night, not against Trump, and you know that I but policy.
So yeah, look that's a very revealing exchange. And look, Ted Cruise is correct. Trump does operationally get to Descisin.
This is the one point he got against Stucker to be on.
But because it's a political point and it's one which is Trumpian. But you know, again, I'm not gonna let sit here and just let the record, you know, say that Donald Trump gets to define America first at an actual level when it's a movement which has existed since the nineteen twenties. Any you know, this is preposterous. Operationally it may be true, and that's actually a separate question,
¶ Trump, America First, and Cruz
but that's the part that really bugs me is the way that it is being weaponized in that form. And also, you know, look, there are at least some maga folks out there who probably did vote for Donald Trump because he's anti war or appear at anti war, believed he was anti war.
Maybe not all of them, not a sizeable.
Percentage, ten, fifteen, twenty percent. Sure I'm claiming it is a majority, But what's wrong with them for protesting against us and say, hey, this is not what I believed a lot of Biden supporters got upset at Biden over Israel that they're like, hey, that's not what I thought was going to happen.
A lot of George W.
Bush supporters got mad at him over the war in Iraq. It's perfectly fine, normal and democratic small d you know, to protest even when if somebody is doing something, even if you did vote for them, that you don't support her, you don't like because it doesn't conflict with the understanding of what you had when.
You went, Well, what you're talking about is a normal functioning political system, which we do not have. And I mean that's the sad truth is, like, you know, whether or not Tucker called Trump to apologize, it doesn't really matter if it's true unless he actually comes out and is like, no, I didn't do that, That's not what happened, because then that just becomes facts in reality because Trump
says that it is. You know, if you listen to the entire Tucker versus Ted debate, if you listen to the entirety of I listened both to Sure Tucker on with Steve Bannon, Steve Bannon on with Tucker. I listened to all of those and the whole effort and you hear this in Charlie Kirk's Rutter as well, Marjorie Taylor
Green's Rheter as well. Is to say, this is the true representation of what Trump really wants, and to the extent that he's not pursuing this path, which is the most true to his intentions, beliefs, and ambitions, it's because he's being tricked by this person or that person, or the deep state or the neocons or whatever. That's where
the battle is fought. Because Tucker knows. And if they didn't know, Trump demonstrated that when you went after Tucker and said he was kookie and you know me said he needs to go get a television network because basically
he's a husband. They know that the minute that they actually go against Trump, if you do anything other than signal in advance that at the end of the day you're going to one hundred percent bend the knee, then you're out, Then you become you become Liz Cheney, you become Adam Kinzinger, you become justin homaj you become you know, any number of the senators or members of Congress who are no longer senators or members of Congress who've been
consigned to the dustbin of history. You are excised from the movement, and that's it. Your influence is over your whatever perks you get being in the Trump world, in the Trump circle and having access to President and all that stuff.
It's done.
So that's why they fight on that turf of well, I am the true representation of what Trump, in his all knowing brilliance, what he really wants, which is why Steve Bannons is now running around telling Financial Times an other outland. Let's do like listen, at the end of the day, if he has more intelligence than we do, then we're going to go along. It's why when Bannon was out criticizing Elon at the beginning and Trump told him shut up, that he did until Elon was persona
¶ Maintaining Influence in Trump World
on Grada and then he went back to it. Well, that's the way that this works. That's why Charlie Kirk changed his tune. And Charlie Kirk was never critical of Trump, but he got a call from the White House saying, hey, tone it down, and he said, yes, sir, no problem.
All.
Look, they're all the same and it's operational. It's the only way that you maintain your access and your ability, and that's the problem of trying to straddle these two worlds. You can be honest and you could say what you think, like me by I'm telling my phoney ringing off the.
Hook right now on my phone.
My phone calls are going one way and not there's not a lot of incoming, and there's a lot of us screw you that.
Is happening right now.
But that's the world that it is what it is, and that's it's very unfortunate. But I also think it's important to show people and to even tell people, you know, from my perspective of that is the only way that you can maintain influence within the system.
It's really unfortunate.
I guess there is a second way though, actually, and this is a good transition because we're now going to talk about theovon is. Sometimes you become like this cultural and you become a big enough figure. That's some of the things that you say becomes something that the White House or others need to respond to. And so that's why when I saw this clip here of THEO vaugh somebody who I don't know if he voted for Trump, I don't know if he's ever said he attended his inauguration, and he's had on.
And Jared Dona, Marl.
Banka just had JD vans On, had JD vance On before previously on the campaign, the first major podcaster to have on Donald Trump.
So you know, he's also somebody.
Though who is not has been willing to at least speak out against Israel and his campaign in Gaza. But here you have a very very interesting message direct a camera, pretty rare in my opinion from THEO on political events speaking out against a war with Iran.
Let's take a listen, we're trying to get us into a war with Iran or not America if Israel is trying to. I don't trust the Israel leader at all. I don't believe anything that guy says. And I I don't think that our soldiers should have to go and defend stuff that they start. I'm not a soldier, so I might I'm obviously speaking out of turn. I'm not even brave enough to serve. So there's that element. But that is kind of how I feel, I guess, And so it's like, yeah, when do I speak?
When do I say that?
You know, because it feels like they're trying to push Trump to go do that, and it's like who makes that choices? He make that choice, and then what do we get? You know, what's the win for us? We're just involved in some other thing while we have suffering here at home. So maybe something like that is like, yeah, I have Should I even speak up? Because I'm not in service. Servicemen and women may be like, we want to, We'll do it, you know, and that's their commitment and their job.
Uh, But yeah, I just I don't know.
That guy really scares me and and I don't know why we support them. I don't understand that. I wish they would really give us a better explanation, you know, especially after the massacres in Gaza. I don't understand. I do not understand that. And some people say, well, you don't know enough about it. That may and it may not. But it's like, dude, can I still speak about it? Can I speak about how I feel about it?
Serious as it gets on the theio Monto?
But look, I mean I appreciate him doing it, and because look, you know, there was so many and I talked about this yesterday, Yeah, Chrystal. And this is even in the context of our own show, The White House made a huge deal about alternative media and podcast right, yeah, right, well guess what you know, we literally had either our second or our first biggest day ever this week ever
in terms of our analytics. Why because we're providing content which is both newsy and it is obviously some A lot of it's opinionated and against the war, and anti war content literally could not be bigger right now. So if they care so much about YouTube and about anti war content, I'm sure Kyle's channel has blown the hell up. You can go and you can look at the YouTube views on any you know, major content creator who's political, who's speaking out against the war.
I'd be willing to bet that they're all seeing similar rise.
And so they cared so much about all the views of the bros and the podcast and all.
This other stuff.
It's like, we'll pay attention, pay attention right now, Dave Smith, Right, you know, you guys made a big deal about him. It's like, well, what happened whenever he speaks out against you? You know, really it's only cable news and the political establishment, which is really just willing to go along with this. People were not connected to the system think this is very, very messed up what's.
Happening right now.
But we all know what Trump is watching.
Sure, we all know you're at your taking a case for influence on Trump. I'm saying though, that if in some way, like again, they claim to have the pulse of the American people, then at that time, well.
Here's the pulse.
¶ Theo Von Warns Against Iran War
I'm not saying we're representative of the whole country, representative of some of the country a decent amount of our audience.
But for Trump, I know that so well.
A lot of them don't support this war, so she'll probably take that into account.
Here's what I.
Would say is, listen, I think the Trump I think Trump is one hundred percent correct that his base, his movement, they're going to be along for the ride. And also listen, I'm sorry when you pull the Republican base. They are just more pro war than the Democratic base. That's just reality. They always have been, they still are, even as there's
been some erosion in that direction. And you know, there was obviously like it was important for Trump politically in twenty sixteen when he finally speaks the truth about the Iraq war. And I think this time around it wasn't that people perceived him as anti war that solidified his support with the base. The base was going to be there no matter what. It's Independence, and that's who you know, I think will be unhappy. I think Independence will. They
may at the beginning actually support the war. I don't know, because there's just that's if. You would be hard pressed to find a war that the US got into that didn't enjoy some level of public support. Unfortunately over the course of my lifetime. But I think, you know, THEO Vaughn and those sorts of voices matter for Independence.
I will also say, though, just in terms.
Of his framing there, it's so convenient for Trump that it's not him, it's he's getting pulled in. You know, it's the Israelis and who's really making the decisions here, And I don't trust that guy being that Yahoo Like I just it's very convenient.
It's not even critique of Trump.
It's like, oh, these nefarious forces are pulling us into war, which is also like I said, it's just it's a convenient and inaccurate narrative. Maybe I'm being too expecting too much from THEO Vonn say, I think you are, Like I said, it is a way to justify what is already a horror show from Trump. Already a horror show from Trump. It's a way to justify the things that
already you know should be unacceptable. And people with character like Dave Smith have already said that's it, like already, even without whether we get directly offensively or have boots on the ground or you know, actively put up the mission accomplished banner.
I'm done. I'm out.
He should be impeach already for what he's doing. Like that is the actual, like principled, accurate read of where you are, if what you actually cared about was keeping the station.
Out of I would say, with THEO and with the look, one of the things I actually detected a lot, and I'm sure you saw. This is when he's like, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak about it. This is the concern trolling around expertise and really about people
being willing to speak out on war. And he's like, I don't know if I know enough about it, because what happened THEO had Candice Owans, and I forget who else on the show who spoke out against Israel, and what do you think ninety eight percent of his phone was from some of the people who are pro Israel you don't know nearly enough to be able to comment on this, Like how dare you say the word genocide
¶ Anti-War Content and Media Influence
to the Vice President of the United States, Because that's what they did, is they'll be like, oh, you're not qualified enough or knowledgeable enough to be an involved actors. I actually detected like a lot of discomfort from him, like having to speak about this issue. And ultimately, I mean, I think what's penetrated as conscience is about the Israeli military action in Gaza, which kind of informs a lot of his thoughts here.
So anyway, I cut him and many other as much much bigger break.
I mean, one of the reasons why you could shouldn't hold Dave in theater the same standard is like Dave is you know, incredibly knowledgeable.
Well, Dave has an ideology.
Yeah, I was gonna say, Dave is an ideological liberty amount of anti war actors thought deeply about his own politics, about where things are going to go. I mean, this is just like I don't know, I think, take what you can get, because for me, it's a barometer of where things are and what is important.
Should we move on to the polling because.
This is the biggest black pill that we can possibly take. And so yes, as I might say, it is true, YouTube and many other places big online audiences, anti war content is doing very well. But unfortunately that is not what the vast majority and particularly the voting boomer base of this country is watching. They're watching cable news, and over on cable news, it is just a mainline of
pro war propaganda. And even worse, you are just watching the framing by the Trump administration be accepted here by a lot of the American people. Here's student ends, Harry Enton. We got to tell everybody the truth. The truth is is that if Trump does decide to strike Iran, it will probably be pretty popular.
Let's take a.
Listen, and overall, I feel like there's more support for Donald Trump's positions than is comically acknowledged opposer Ran getting a nuclear weapon. I mean, look at this, seventy nine percent of adults agree on that they agree with Donald Trump, but Ron cannot get a nuclear weapon, eighty three percent of Republicans, seventy nine percent of Independence, seventy nine percent of Democrats. When you get seventy nine percent of Democrats
and eighty three percent of Republicans agreeing on anything. You know that that position is the very clear majority in this country. And so the American public is with Donald Trump. They definitely opposed I Ron getting nuclear weapons for Ranch trying to make a nuclear weapon. Look at this overall, you get the slight plurality. I mean it's within the margin I remember, but the slight plurality of Americans actually favor US air stripes compared to forty seven percent of posing it.
There you go, yeah, there.
Republican number is seventy percent. I mean, I guess I can take it to the bank that there's thirty percent of people out there. But let's all be honest at the same look, there is some confounding stuff. And I'll also say this about America. Americans are fickle, right, So at the very beginning, do you remember what the numbers were on Ukraine? It was like ninety ten.
Yeah, it was literally ninety.
I will suffer.
I will say, yeah, how'd that work out for you? Huh huh. Yeah.
I didn't want to say I told you so, but I guess I'm going to run do it. But that's part of what I guess. You know, reading a book can get you.
This is the problem.
Though I've read enough to say the vast majority of the American people supported the war in Vietnam. Eventually, everybody always has retrograde amnesia. Though no, I never spoorned that bullshit. Okay, the vast majority of the American people supported the war in Vietnam up until nineteen sixty eight, and actually even well into the nineteen seventies. Well, the vast majority of
the American people supported the war in Iraq. The vast majority of the American people supported the Libyan intervention in twenty eleven.
The vast majority of.
The American people wanted to pick a good side in Syria. They supported the strikes, you know, on the Asid regime. If you were to pull people and be like, hey, do you think it's worth taking out North Korea's nuclear weapon in twenty seventeen, most people are going to say yes. Now, what I always say is that if you ask them to consider the consequences, that's when things usually change a little bit.
But even then, let's all be honest.
We're bad at projecting the consequence, like people are bad at projecting in the future.
Oh, ten steps down the road, this is going to go poor.
And look, I get it.
It's difficult because it requires, you know, like a level of critical thinking that the vast majority of people don't want.
And I'm not putting people down.
Most people are living their lives and they don't want to think very much about the news.
Or war or whatever.
Now I would ask you to because does of course, you know, affect your gas prices and you know, oh, the national debt and whether we have the social programs and ability as we all learn from the war in Iraq, But you know, you.
Do continue to live your life.
Let's go to put the Economist poll up here at least some good news. I think for me, most Americans think that the US military quote should not get involved in the conflict.
Between Israelity Iran.
So here they say, do you think the US military should get involved in the conflict. The reason why I think that's really important is that doesn't just say strike, it says involved.
Here.
Here's what I noticed. It doesn't say anything about nuclear weapons.
Yes, And this is why, this is why.
The most important thing that you can impress upon people is this is not about nuclear weapons. Because the moment, let's say we asked the public, do you support a regime change war in Iran, I guarantee you the results of that would be overwhelmingly know. But let me tell you, if you were listening to any cable news network, if you are listening to you Know, and some in the media too, the question is, and this is what Trump wants it to be, should Iran have a nuke or not?
That is not the question. That is not the appropriate framing, That is not what this is about. Iran was not pursuing a nuclear weapon. In fact, if you don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon, you should be outraged that this bombing blew up the potential for successful diplomatic negotiations to make sure that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon, because the logic is much more straightforward now for Iran to race to a bomb as we were
discussing before. So these polls that have come out so far are all over the place, and it is the most significant indicator I have ever seen of how important is to get the narrative and the information right and for people to understand what is really going on here. Because yes, if you ask the American people, hey, should we do some limited strikes to make sure Iran doesn't
have a bomb. Yeah, a majority is going to say yes, I agree, which is why Trump is consistently saying they can't have a bomb.
They can't have a bomb, they can't have a bomb.
That's that's why that's his line, because he knows that is solid political ground. The moment people realize that's not what this is about, this is about another like disastrous or game change war, then the politics completely change and
completely shift. And so again that's why the most important thing that you can impress upon people is what this is really about, and that the idea of the nukes is fake, invented, there is no evidence to support it, and that is a pretext to obscure the real goal of what's.
Going on here.
Let's also put this Washington Post stuff on the screen, because this gives you a very very clear picture about how this all looks as well in terms of the propaganda and in terms of the framing. Can we put that up please, guys, this new Washington Post element that we have. They ask at this time, would you support or oppose the US military launching air strikes against Iran over its nuclear program. You've got twenty five percent support, thirty percent unsure, forty five percent oppose.
But you can still see that that unsure number is pretty big.
So they say forty seven percent of Republicans they already support it, Okay, twenty nine percent unsure, so that's a vast majority or the support are unsure only twenty four percent oppose. Democrats kind of the opposite, since a more partisan. But this gives me a little hope here with the independent figure twenty percent support, thirty six percent unsure, forty four percent say that they oppose military and veteran household.
It's actually a little bit higher there for support. There's still some strong opposed numbers, and same with non military. But the point is is that you can still see a significant amount of support here amongst the Republican Party already as long as you sell it to them about nukes.
¶ Polling on US Support for Iran
And this is a why people who want nuance will have warnings always lose is because we have to start from disproving the allegation and then warning about fortieth order consequences.
Now.
I wish, though, that we would have enough experience at this point that I could just say Libya and someone would be like, oh, yeah, that's a good point, right, you know.
Oh, it's just.
About striking air defense in Libya. Nothing else, guys, no boots on the ground. Oh except what over one million people flooded Europe and caused massive demographic crisis. Oh, Siria, not a single American stepped on the ground. Oh wait, except until Isis accepted a caliphate and a bunch of more slaughtered in the Bata Klan. And actually it's twenty twenty five and they're still over a thousand troops that are on the ground in Syria today. You know, it's
like having to warn about all these consequences. Same with Iraq. You know, the Iraq question was about nuclear weapons. Now if I had if they had correctly posed to the American people, do you support nation building in Iraq?
I do not think that the vast majority would have supported it.
But the point is is, once you're in, you're in, and you just slowly get bought in and next thing, you know, Oh, we have to bring peace between the Sunni and the Shia, because Americans are super qualified for that one, right.
Right, And then oh, actually no, it's a civil war. We got to get involved here.
We've got to make sure girls can go to school.
Right now, exactly right.
We went committing that. By the way, in regard to a rod.
Yeah, like oh yeah, oh, oh my god.
I'm reading this book right now about I told you about. It's called Revolutionary Iran. Fantastic book. I highly recommended this hole. Oh they wore mini skirts into Yeah, that was in like one neighborhood in Tehran.
Okay, as usual, it's always the same.
Well, that also misrepresents the reality for women in Iran right now. I'm not saying that they don't discriminate and it's not oppressive, et cetera. But you have like a huge number of women who are preponderance of the STEM graduates, et cetera. I mean, the whole thing is just like distorted all the way.
But what point is that it's nuanced. It's a difficult picture. Okay.
You had another Islamic nation called Turkey, which basically tried
¶ History of American War Support
to eradicate the religion and all of religiosity from society. Want to ask how that worked out. There's a guy named Aridiwan who's in charge. Basically came on the back of a rebellion against that despite what years decades of propaganda against the religion of Islam. It turns out they're not very good at it. My only point is that, look, whether things should be or should not be is not my decision.
That's for the people of Iran, that's for the people of Turkey.
You live how you want to live, and I'll live how the way I want to. But to transpose like these like western neighborhoods onto the.
Entire society is ridiculous.
Like I'm thinking, in Jordan, anybody's ever been to Jordan, there's like this one neighborhood where all the Americans hang out and there's like a gay bar there, and people will be like, oh, so he's such a progressive society, and.
I'm like, yeah, there's one, okay.
And the reason they all go there is because they can like drink or whatever, go and pull the vast majority of the city I have. I'm on and be like, hey, what do you think about this? They probably outraged or they digitous. Let live and let live and they make exist in one place. This is not to denigrate. They can live how they would like.
And I'm on it maybe the most western.
Yeah, one of the most western places.
Yeah, there's there's so much to say about it. And here's the bottom line too, It's not that I don't care about the fate of women and girls, but I know a regime collapse in Iran is going to be devastating for everyone. That is the most devastating thing you can imagine, right, So, yeah, the justifications that were already running through for why this would be great idea. I mean, it's like a speed run through what we saw throughout
all of these failed regime change operations. I want to read a few of the comments from because what Washington Post does is they do the poll, but they also talk to the voters about their justifications, which are kind of interesting. So they have a Nevada woman, sixty two Republican,
¶ Framing the Iran Conflict
voted for Trump. She says, the US cannot allow Ran to have nukes. Israel is our friend, Iran is the main sponsor of terrorism. So that is a Fox News watcher through and through watching the same content as the president of the United States. You have another Republican, though, who voted for Trump, seventy four year old woman. She says, I think Trump in the US need to continue negotiations and alternatives before the US bombs Iran and starts World War three.
Okay, that's good. I like that one.
You've got a Democrat who didn't vote says Roan is not an imminent threat to the US. You've got an independent who voted for Trump, forty four year old man who says, I'm not convinced they have nuclear weapons.
We need proof.
But I'll tell you if you look further into this poll and the results that they got, and this again is why Trump is saying over and over again they can have a nuke.
They can't have a nuke.
They can have a nuke because a eighty two percent of respondents to this poll, Democrats, Republicans, independence, eighty two percent said they are concerned about Iran getting a nuclear weapon. So you know that's why they feel like the firmest ground is when they're trying to convince you that they were right on the edge of getting this nuclear web and we have to act now. And if they're able to persuade the public of that for some time, they
will enjoy some level of support. Now I will tell you I had I won't say who exactly, but I had a young man nineteen years old who is, you know, not a newswatcher. He is very much your like nor me, not super He works in the trades.
He's not focused on any of this stuff.
Who was deeply concerned about this actually, like this broke through to him, and he is the tie. He's the theolon watcher, Like that's that's where he falls. And so I think in terms of independence, I think you have a real chance to make the case when I look at those Republican numbers who already support it, and then you've got a whole bunch of them who are unsure.
You know, I just look at that, and I know the minute Donald Trump makes the decision, they're all going to walk in and like Trump says, it's good, so it must be good.
That's what we're doing.
So if you guys want to know what they're watching over on Fox, I tweeted this, but literally they had on the sun of Elie Wisel, the guy who wrote Night to the Holocaust Survivor, to come on and to compare striking Iranian nuclear facilities to bombing Auschwitz during World War Two at the height of the Holk that's the level of shit that these people are imbibing into their brains. And there's not a single element of skepticism of anything
that you're hearing. Usually The way that they frame the question is, but like there is a risk of foreign entanglement, why don't you tell us why that's not true. That's the closest that they'll come to even presenting the risk. It's just so so bad. It's honestly, it might even
be worse than two thousand and three. The only like shining thing that I saw is that that Tucker interview went so massive, viral like viral into the sense that, like you said, the nineteen year olds are listening like on liberal, on conservative wherever, like it was all over TikTok, and it was framed it was exactly the right bite sized moment, you know, and all that, and that really did break through.
Now we didn't have that, No.
Three, and there's probably not enough to stop what's coming, but at the very least it exists in the historical record.
Real quick after grec myself, it's seventy percent who are concerned about the Iranian nuclear program.
So still high, still very high.
All right, Well, next we have a very special guest, Soraba Marii. Sorab is an expert both on Iran. He's a former neo Khon who wanted regime change he's now a realist who opposes regime change. He can tell us in exact like exactitude, why a regime change operation in Iran would be a total disaster.
For critically, she knows how many people live in Iran, and he.
Also knows how. Let's get to it.
Very excited now to be joined by Soraba Marii. He's the US editor for Unheard, great friend.
Of the show. It's good to see you man, Thank you for joining us, Thank you both for having me.
So so we gave you a fantastic introduction already, and so let's just get down to it. About the population of Iran. Whether you can tell us, because certainly Ted Cruz can't. Let's take a listen, and most importantly, let's dissect why that matters for US regime change attempts.
Here, let's take a listen.
How many people living around? By the way, I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population. You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple. How many people living around? Ninety two million? Okay, yeah, how could you not know that? I don't sit around memorizing population tables.
Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.
Why is it relevant whether it's will because ninety million or eighty million or a hundred million.
Why because if you don't know anything about the country. I didn't say I don't know anything about Okay, what's the ethnic mix of wrong? They are Persians and well presuminantly Shia.
Okay, you don't know thing about Iran. So okay, I'm not the Tucker Carlson bird on Iran.
You're a senator who's calling there the one the government at the country.
Eight. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. I'm not saying that. Who can't figure out General SOLMONI you believe they're trying to murder Trump?
Yes, because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation.
And if they really believe that carrying out military strikes today? Who said Israel was right with our help? I've said we Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.
Well, this you're breaking news here because the US government last night denied the National Security Council spokesman Alex Fifer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity.
We're not bombing, then Israel's bombing. Then you just said we were. We are supporting as you're a senator. If you're saying the United States government is now, we're with I run right now. People are listening.
So so why does it matter that somebody who wants to overthrow the regime in Iran doesn't know the population or the ethnic makeup of Iran?
First of all, like kudos to Tucker for that interview. It reminded me of a kind of journalism you see on UK broadcast. Tell us journalism, you know where you really probe, and too often we don't in the United States, where it's just so deferential to anyone in power. But it matters because Iran is a large and extremely complex society, vaster and more sensitive than Iraq, where the last time we attempted a real kind of regime change, direct occupation
and nation building. So yes, it really it matters for many reasons. One is, first of all, just the sheer size of the country tells you something about how difficult
the kind of post regime collapse scenario would be. And second, of all, you know, it also goes into how much the Iranians, how many people, for example, they can recruit if the United States is forced into a ground operation and there's a kind of war of attrition between the regime, whatever regime we would install, and where the regime remnants, the older regimes remnants home, they could recruit, how many people they could recruit. So it's just I mean, it's
just appalling. And I admire Senator Cruz on some issues, but it's just appalling that he doesn't know. And the excuse making for it side wall is he supposed to look up Wikipedia?
Yes, you know, yes, actually read up briefing.
You have access to, you know, information that the rest of us don't like read.
Read your article. Yeah, we could put it eat you up mama's screen.
I mean, this is so I knew the population number because Soccer and I one of the first things we did when we knew that this was being contemplated, when we knew we were backing this war in Iran. It is okay, Well, how does this compare it to see her? How does this compare it to a rock? What is the population of Iran versus Israel? Like this is the most surface level that you could possibly know about this conflict.
And yes, it's incredibly significant, but I would love you to lay on a little bit of what you do in this piece of like, Okay, let's say you get your wish. Let's say the current regime collapses. How do you see that unfolding? Given the fact, as you just stated that Iran is a complex, multi ethnic society.
Yep, So, first of all, the biggest problem will be the question of political authority, a national authority that can keep the country together and govern minimally. And given Iran's political culture. Iran's political culture is defined by a term
in Persian and Arabic stebdad, which means an arbitrary rule. Unfortunately, the way that it's developed, everything goes through a central authority, whether it's whether you call it a shah meaning a king, or whether it's an ayatola who is basically a king under a different aspect, he's just instead of a crown, he wears a turban. That degree of central authority and a tradition of of centralized rule that has forestalled the development of a sense of different social classes being able
to resolve differences through civil society. Through well defined legal rights and duties, etc.
Et cetera.
Is underdeveloped. We've had attempts at trying to build those up in our twentieth we I mean Iranians. I'm Iranian American, but the Iranians have attempted to build it up. In some cases those attempts have been short circuited by foreign imperialists. There was a constitutional revolution in nineteen oh five, and the Brits and the Russians basically in part set out to scuttle that because they treated Iran as a prize
in the so called Great Game. There was a parliamentary democracy for a while after World War Two, and the leader of that movement was toppled in parts through It's complicated. It's not just in a leftist kind of talking point. It's like we toppled our democratic government. The story is more complicated. But at any rate, it hasn't developed that political culture that would easily be able to stand up a new order. So that's the main problem. And so
who would you install. They floated the Shah of the Sun, and monarchy is has some attractive things about it. He
¶ Introducing Sohrab Ahmari
represents a kind of continuity, a link to the path to the Iranian past. There are problems with it, though everyone I know who's taught who's worked with Reza Pahlavi, the heir to the Pahlavi dynasty, describes him as basically like indolent and curious, et cetera. Second, he's become like a quasi spokesman for the idea of He didn't act in a kingly way, which is when that happened.
He should.
He should have said something like, I feel my compatriot's pain, I'm doing I'm using all my influence to bring it to an end, and uh, you.
Know that sort of thing.
What he said instead was you know, this is all Iran's fault, which there of course, I mean, the Iranian regime has shouted this nasty slogan death to Israel, death to America.
I don't deny that.
But he said it's a Ronswald and rise up and you know, overthrow the regime. Well, meanwhile, you know, you see footage of fathers holding their infants with bloody diapers because of the bombings. How is that guy going to rise up? And you know, mounted small de democratic revolution. So but sorry, just to clean up this point. Even if he were the second coming of Cyrus the Great, you know, the biblical emperor, the Persian emperor who's mentioned
in the Bible at various points. Even if you were second coming of Cyrus, he needs to be able to assert control over this far flung, sprawling country of ninety million with a fractious ethnic makeup, and he couldn't do that without a prolonged US intervention, right, in other words,
that you would have to help him do that. Otherwise it would be just like Afghanistan, where there's a government a rump state that can only control the capital and its surrounding environment, and the rest of the country becomes like Libyanized and Syrianized, and is you know, spreading instability all over the place. So, for all these reasons, Senator Cruz, if you're listening to this, buy a book.
Genesis is great.
I revere the Book of Genesis, but it's not enough for understanding them.
I'm sure you would be happy to speak with that.
That's right.
Yeah, ask you some.
Question, Senator Cruz. Listen, he's a curious guy. He should call you.
So one of the things I won't really want to dive into here, like you just said, is about this necessity for authority and how in the vacuum of authority the United States must step in. And I saw that this was kind of a controversial point, but it just seems very obvious to me. Israel is a country of nine million. What they're going to impose regime change in a country of ninety million. There's no occupation force that is capable of that. And what would it involve, you know,
basically a fall of the Iranian regime? Like do you think it is even possible for the Iranian regime to survive at this point even if the United States does not get involved? Given Israel's statement, their defense minister just today threatened the Ayatola Homanium basically compared him to Hitler and to a Nazi, and was like, yeah, we're going
to kill him, I mean effectively saying that. So is there even a scenario at this point where they can survive in their current form, if not dramatically weakened, And what will come as a result of that?
You know, if you had asked me that forty eight hours ago, I would have said, no, that the pounding that they're getting from the Israelis will lead to collapse. However,
¶ Ted Cruz's Ignorance on Iran
looking at it from the perspective this morning, I think that that will be a long term proposition. That is, I don't think the Israelis have it in them alone to be able to achieve that. What I've heard and gathered from open source open sources and talking to people on the inside, et cetera, is that the regime has kind of like gotten reconsolidated itself. Let's say, in recent recent days they claim to have taken care of the Mossad infiltration that wrecks such havoc in the early stages
of the conflict. They are getting better at their kind of very experimental people so they just like were like, let's try different things with with Iron Dome and with David slaying, and they're getting their kind of learning and
adjusting tactics as they go on. As I understand it, and here, I, you know, take this with a grain of salt, because I'm not like the kind of military expert, but as I understand it, there miss they're like missile launch structure is very automated and and hard to get at, more so than than Israelis have claimed or did claim in the triumphant early days. And so with all that in mind, I think that what they want to do is to make this a kind of long war of
attrition that goes on for a long time. I just so, in other words, I'm saying is like the risks of regime collapse have somewhat been reduced to my mind over the past forty eight hours. However, that doesn't mean that if it happens, it's a good thing for all the early reasons I mentioned, or that the war of attrition model is good for anyone in the region, you know, whether it's US troops who are vulnerable and don't have an iron dome sitting in Iraq and elsewhere, whether it's
Israel itself. I mean, I love the city of Tel Aviv, and it really breaks my heart to see what the
¶ Why Iran's Complexity Matters
Iranian ballistic systems have done. I mean, this has to be put to a stop through a negotiated settlement.
So so, what I hear from people who are supportive of US getting offensively directly involved is basically like, well, we can just go in, drop some mongerbusters on four dough get out, and I don't know what you people are so concerned about, Like this will be quick, it'll be easy. It doesn't require us to be boots on the ground and this long sal scale, you know, involvement.
How do you see that?
Yeah, so basically, okay, the way I think about it is actually, this is an analogy from a friend of mine, Kurt Mills, who said, you know, there are two houses. One is a mansion and one is like a fixer upper. The mansion is a negotiated settlement. The fixer upper is the quick hit, and it looks more attractive, it looks cheaper upfront, it's easier to sign the deal, meaning of buying the house or in this case striking four dough. But the house is actually termite ridden and collapses, you know,
when it's exposed to the lightest storm. So what I mean by that is that this idea that you can go in very quickly, hit four dough and get out, you have to take it with a big chunk of salt, not a grain of salt. Because Iran has only so far used it's long range ballistics against Israel, that makes sense because of the distance. It has a whole bunch of short and medium range missiles that can reach US
bases which are vulnerable. As I said, it can try to close the Strait of Hormuz through which twenty percent of the world's energy supplies traverse and if they do either or both of those things, and the United States will inevitably right be forced to respond in a bigger way. And we're in that bigger war. So the mansion, which looks expensive and difficult and daunting to get of a deal, is actually the more realistic option than the fixer upper of just go in, strike and get out.
And lastly so rob and by the way, we should mention to people who are concerned about things, you have been there, so you are eminently qualified on every level to speak of such things. But the other thing that
¶ Iran Regime Collapse Scenarios
Trump has posited is that American strikes Asraeli strikes, and then you know, ultimately potentially American strikes on Iran will soften them up so that that mansion will be more easily acquired.
What do you make of that logic?
I just think at that point their incentives is you basically have someone in a hole who's like firing at you, and you fire even more, and you're telling him, but come out, and his mentality is, well, if I come out with my arms up, you're gonna shoot me.
So the only the only.
Rational thing from my point of view is to just hole up and keep firing and maybe I'll die in a flash of you know, heat, or I won't. But I just don't see I don't see Iranians being able to uh, the Iranian leaderships as we know known it historically. You know, at that point, once that has happened, they think, well, you're out to kill me, and I'm just gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my chances with firing rockets and closing hor moves and you know, potentially setting off terrorist proxies
elsewhere in western heartlands, et cetera, et cetera. I just I'm trying to think through that, and I just don't see them being softened up. I'm seeing that just feeling so cornered that.
I don't see any historical evidence for it. I see none.
You know, nations that are under the gun and ask for unconditional surrender very rarely do it until they suffer immense and mass death, and usually the population allis to the flag because they don't want to deal with it either, as bad as it is, They're willing to fight to the death. And that's a very bad scenario I think
for all of us so up. Your commentary, your pieces and all that have been so so helpful for all of us, and I know they've been circulating wide part of the reason we wanted to have you on the show. I encourage everybody to read it and please keep up the good work. Man.
Thank you for joining us.
Great to see it sarth bad news.
Guys, You're going to have to wait until tomorrow the Friday Show to find out what our dear leader Obama had to say about the present situation. So I'm sure you'll be waiting with baited bread. Just went too long, as we often do in the rest of the show.
We got to get it wrapped to get badlines, get it out.
Thank you so much for sticking with us this week for all of the coverage. I think we're going to have all four hosts for the Friday show. To Mario, I'll make it work, so we're going to have extensive coverage there. And Rocana is actually going to join us. He's one of the Democrats who's been pushing the War Powers resolution fight in Congress, so really important to talk to him right now.
All right, we'll see you guys tomorrow.
Then