6/12/24: Hunter Biden Convicted, Alito Wife Leaked Audio, Biden Gaslights On Israel Ceasefire, Feds Investigate UAW, Fox Caught Editing Trump Interview, Pakistan Abducts Imran Khan Allies

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All right, good morning here, welcome the Counterpoints. I'm all alone in this spacious studio here in Washington, d C. Emily is joining us from our London bureau. Emily, tell us what you're doing in London?

How you doing?

That's right, Well, it's my second weekend unheard, so I'm hanging out here with the team in London getting to know everyone. But it was a good week to be in Europe because of the fallout from the EU election. Cyber and Crystal have done a great job covering it. But it has been fascinating to sort of see a lot of it play out here in London. But we have domestically so much on the docket for today's show, and actually also and the guest that you have us

Yeah, that'll be interesting.

We're going to talk to Shabaz Gil who used to serve as chief of staff to Imran Khan. He was famously over there in Pakistani, was famously arrested there, tortured, was able to get out of the tension, escape the country.

He's here in the United States.

He's going to update us on some of the transnational repression that's going on between the United States and Pakistan here. Obviously, we're going to talk about the Hunter Biden conviction yesterday. We also on Monday, we had Lauren Windsor on the show's Democratic Activists and journalists who did the undercover audio of Alito and Roberts. She also has audio of Alito's wife, which is.

Kind of funny.

At minimum, I think everybody across the spectrum can agree it's that it's funny.

So we'll talk about that.

Israel and Hamas are both kind of dueling over who has accepted the ceasefire deal.

They're both each is saying that they've basically.

That their opponents have rejected it, but their opponents are saying they've accepted. It's completely confusing, but we're going to untaggle all the latest of that.

On that question.

Sean Fain is now facing threats basically from this independent monitor connected to the Department of Justice.

We can unpack some of that. Emily.

Fox News kind of stepped in it with this Jeffrey Epstein Donald Trump question, didn't they Yeah.

They really did.

They edited part of an answer out and then uploaded the full answer. So either that's a defensive Fox or an argument against the sort of journalism behind this question.

So we'll get to that.

Because Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's relationship too, well, everyone in the corridors of power remains extremely relevant. And on that note, our Friday show, we are going to be having a back and forth with orn Cass of America Compass. He's recently been profiled as like the man turning the Republican Party populist, trying to turn the Republican Party populist. So Ryan and I think have some good points of contrast to bring out with orin so we're

Yes indeed, so let's talk about Hunter Biden.

So Hunter Biden yesterday in rapid fashion, so fast that reporters and Hunter's family were not even able to get into the courtroom in time to kind of see the verdict. That's how quickly the jury was able to come to the conclusion that he was guilty of three felony charges connected to basically illegal possession of a weapon lying on lying on his background check information as something grime.

What did Matt Gates call it? Kind of stupid?

Basically basically on the form and I want to hear your reaction to this. On the form it says are you Are you using drugs? Grammatically just a mess of a question. And I pointed this out at the time, and Hunter Biden actually did use the defense that I sort of jokingly provided, which was that he wasn't using drugs at the time like this, because the forum says are you using drugs? And what so Hunter said, not only am I not using drugs at this very moment.

Yeah.

I was going to say, I mean, I think what they read into this is a lack of sincerity. I mean, there's diary, or there's entries in the laptop, there's parts of his own book that are so in such close proximity to the day that he signed in the form that said, I mean he had Abay Lowell, he had sort of brought out the And again, this is the state of Delaware, a very friendly state for the Biden, so it's a friendly jury, and they.

Had this addiction defense.

So I was actually fairly surprised by how quickly they returned this results. One of the more interesting elements was flagged in playbook this morning. They noted a source actually told them on the dem side it would have been worse if he had been found not guilty for the twenty twenty four campaign, simply because that would have fed into the broader narrative being pushed.

And I think it's a correct narrative, and I think it still.

Stands that Hunter Biden is being unduly protected by the Department of Justice. And the reason that is still my big takeaway from this case is the gun charge is by far and away the safest charge that Hunter Biden could have been hit with.

We've seen this defense. You mentioned Matt Gates.

We've seen Thomas Massey talk about this that you know, of all the things in the world to charge Hunter Biden with, he's still by this Department of Justice has not been charged with a PHARAH violation despite the fact that he did not register for his work with Barisma and other clients that.

Is a felony.

He has the DOJ slow walked to the point where the statute of limitations expired on felony tax violations.

He actually didn't.

Pay taxes on income the year that he was taking money from Barisma, and other foreign clients, a much more serious charge. And again they slow walked. The whistleblowers have talked about this, but the DOJ and under the Biden administration, slow walked the investigation to the point where the statute of limitations on more serious charges expired. And he still hasn't been hit with a Phara violation. He could still

And the defense from his camp about why he shouldn't be charged as a foreign agent is kind of amusing, and it basically goes, he didn't actually do any work, you know, he took money from these foreign entities, like he doesn't deny that, but then he just put that money right up his nose and didn't actually, yeah, he used his name to get the money, but he did not use his name to then exert any influence in Washington. He just went to skid roll and he went to

It's a really good question.

And when also, I mean, does it play out during the election. I think is a very interesting question as well. I'm guessing I think you're right. I think you're right that he'll probably get some minimal amount of time in a minimal security prison. He might not, though, I think this is what isn't this his first time fell in the actual conviction. He hasn't been convicted of anything before, so that's helpful obviously.

Yeah, And I saw some statistics in Glenn Thrush's article in New York Times. It's something like eight percent of people charged with this the same crime don't get any prison time, but ninety two percent due This is also an unusual case to charge in the sense that.

Two things.

One the gun was not used in the commission of a crime, and two the person is now sober. So in most cases, like federal prosecutors who would come across this kind of thing would say, given these other circumstances, we're not going to go with this. However, this is and in fact, they basically got to a deal where he wasn't going to serve any prison time, you know, if you remember months ago. But then it blew up in front of in front of the judge. The judge

It does. Your answer.

Brought to mind Trump as well, when when you were saying, like, this is the the cheapest, silliest, like lamest thing that you could convict the person for, when there are all these other more substantial things that are either coming down the pike or could be thrown at him, and it right, It reminded me of Trump and and the prosecution in New York, where it's like, okay, yeah, clearly guilty of that.

For the part of it, it's.

Just much much more difficult. Do you think, well, we've seen the last of this. The prosecutors are saying they still have some tax charges that they could launch, even if they're not, even if some of them have expired.

Do you expect we're going to see more of this?

Well, he is facing charges in California. He's likely to appeal this decision, so it's tax charges in California, and he's probably going to appeal the decision that was just made. So I think it's going to continue to play out. And one of the key differences, to your point, it is an interesting point. One of the key differences I think with Trump is that we've seen everything thrown at

What kind of prosecutor would do? It was such a sweetheart.

Deal that the judge in this very unusual moment had to be like, wait a second, what's going on here? Because what Wyss's attempted to prosecute just didn't make sense from the perspective of like the government prosecuting a case. So I would say that that to me seems to be a significant difference between between Trump and Hunter.

That said, we.

Talked in our debate segment last week with Will Chamberlain that, as he said, Republicans are planning to do the throw everything at the wall and see what sticks strategy if Donald Trump is elected.

I think he had something where.

He was like, watch out, because it's it's coming right back in that direction.

If Donald Trump wins, we.

Can put up a two here.

President Joe Biden has said that he has no plans to pardon Hunter Biden. He said, you know, I'm the president, but I'm also a father. He's proud of his son. He wants to be there for him. I wonder how true that is if if Biden does lose reelection in November, I think most of the country would expect him on the way out to pardon his son. I think the entire country would forgive him at that point for.

Doing so, just on a human level.

Like I think most people would almost think it was kind of cruel and callous if a parent had the opportunity on their way out to pardon their son and didn't take it be almost weird.

Like Bill Clinton and his brother. Am I remembering that it was a Bill Clinton's brook?

Did he? Yeah?

That was Roger Clinton, which is a fascinating story. Like Bill Clinton was informed when he was governor of Arkansas that his brother was under investigation for selling small amounts of crack uh in.

Order to feed his habit.

And basically the head of the police in Arkansas said, what do you want me to do about this?

Boss?

And according to Clinton, and this hasn't been challenged by anybody, he said, just you know, treated how you would you know anybody else? And he ended up going to prison. Uh, Roger Clinton did I assume he. I don't know the exact story of what, you know, what he what he ended up doing towards the end, but he did he did serve some time. So yeah, we'll see and I well, you know, so Hunter's Hunter's best bet at this point for avoiding jail time would be his dad losing perhaps in November.

Well, and yeah, that was the interesting thing I read into the playbook quote from that source today is that, actually, I think the Biden campaign has realized that if they can make Trump look over zealous in going after an addict who's been treated fairly by the justice system, you know, actually that if there's this appearance of fairness that he was prosecuted, did the time, and Trump continues to you know, attack this addict, then the Biden campaign SE's you know, sort of an upside in it.

And it does. I just looked this up while we were talking.

Rotric Clinton was pardoned for that nineteen eighty five cocaine possession and it was drug trafficking before Clinton left office.

You know. It's also worth noting that the country basically gave for gave Ford for.

Pardoning Nixon, even though it was really controversial at the time, like very controversial at the time.

I think Biden would be safe with a pardon for Hunter.

Speaking of messy family members, let's move on to Martha Analito. So on on Monday the over here bringing points, Lauren Windsor released this, uh, this undercover audio that she had taken of John Roberts and Samuel Samuel Alito at the Supreme Court Historical Society.

Gala about a week ago.

She also had she also had a conversation that evening with Martha and Alito, his wife obviously less newsworthy in the sense that she is not a lifetime appointed to the Supreme Court. But there's some there's some tea leaves that you can you can read in these comments from her. They might have implications for whether or not Alito is thinking about retiring. But there's also there's a lot, a lot more to unpack here. Let's let's roll a little bit of Alito, missus Alito and MS Windsor.

Why do you think they're coming after you?

I mean, like the whole like appeal to have head and Flagg was like bullshit, right right, But that's you know the other thing is that them not used to believe that he should control me.

Yeah, so we'll go to Hell who never controls me.

You know what I want? I want a.

Sacred Heart of Jesus' flag because I have to look across the lagoon at the Pride flag for the next month exactly. And he's like, oh, please, don't put up a flag.

I said, I won't do.

It because I'm deferring to you. But when you were free of this nonsense, I'm putting it up. And I'm going to send them a message every day, maybe every week. I'll be changing the flags. They'll be all kind of I made a flag in my head. This is how I satisfy myself. I made a flag. It's white and it's yellow and orange flames around it, and in the middle is the word vigonia. Virgonia in Italian means shame, virgonia v e r g o g n a vergonia, shame, shame, shame of you, you.

Know, Okay, the shame the shame flag to counteract the Pride flag.

Clever. Very interesting.

Uh.

The part that jumped out of me is potentially newsworthy.

Where she said, when you're done with all this nonsense.

And she made a couple of references in the conversation about a post Supreme Court life for the Alitos, which would suggest to me that if Trump is re elected, he's he's in his he's well well into his seventies.

Now I can google this.

I think he's like seventy four or something, that that he would be looking at retirement under a potential Trump administration.

Is that?

What is that what you read from that?

And is that the kind of kind of conventional wisdom in conservative circles that that if Trump is elected, Thomas an Alito in particular, who are you know getting up there might might see their way to greener pastures real.

Time fact check, you nailed his age.

It's exactly seventy four years of age. You hear it in consertive circles. You definitely hear more about Clarence Thomas, because you know, I think, let me look up his age really quickly. I think he's actually older than Alito is, and here we go, he's seventy five yees, so they're both a similar age.

But what's concerning to conservatives.

Right now especially is that they can't they feel as though they can't trust Amy Coney, Barrett and Neil Gorsich and Brett Kavanaugh because there's a real big difference. You know, there's obviously a big difference between the members of the GOP appointed members of the Court and the dumb appointed members of the Court. But there's a huge rift within the GOP members of the GOP appointed members of the Court,

Nothing too shocking.

I always think what they say, you know, if you have audio of what they're saying, it's newsworthy as insight into the most important judicial.

Body in the country. So I don't just beat that.

But I also think it sounds like pretty standard Catholic fair.

I always take with a grain of salt when people are just agreeing with other people in conversation, because people are strangers, people especially strangers, and in general people are conflict averse. Like it's in public, like you're in line at the post office or you're in line for a drink at the Supreme Court, historical society reception, you're not going to necessarily pick an argument with somebody.

Now in Alito's.

Camp, they got into it.

Though Martha An got into it.

Alito got into it a little bit and is like, you know, rather than just giving platitudes, he did. He did say, you know, like one side or the other is going to win these are you know, some of these things you can't compromise on. On the other hand, like some things you can't compromise on like that is that's also that also is a platitude. It depends on your defin It's also something at that point, are we talking about the control of the entire Yeah, well, it's also.

Something Ruth Bader Ginsberg would have said about women's protection for women, for example, or.

Something like Title nine.

I don't want to put words in her mouth, obviously, but it's a pretty clear argument when you're talking about, you know, upholding the Civil Rights Act.

Of nineteen sixty four, for example, you know people.

Or anti gym the difference, right.

Yeah, And so it's not you know, I think the concept of not being able to split the difference isn't absurd, and I think it's one that a lot of us feel right now that, for example, you can't split the difference between people who believe, on the one hand, like you and I, like life begins at conception versus that's like crazy nonsense.

Legally, it's very, very difficult to.

Split the difference if you have to polar opposite positions like that. So I think that's the sort of where he's coming from. I actually think it's something that you can hear from a lot of people. If you believe, for example, that you know, there are hard biological differences between men and women, that gets really hard to legally split the difference on things like Title nine.

That's what I read into it. I feel like it's a pretty common sentiment among Americans these days.

It's it's been interesting to see the videos blow up since Monday, you know, New York Times kind of led lad with it. MSNBC was going crazy with it, and then there was a lot, you know, a lot of

Literally tached at these hotel line Yeah.

Right, yes, now you just hit a button on your watch or your phone and boom, you're you're hot.

Yeah, so yeah.

I do see it.

But it's like, yeah, I mean crocodile tears for public figures who you know are fairly well off and.

Have lots of power being recorded.

I think you know it is if you work in media, you know that you lose something when you can't have super candid conversations. You just you know, everyone is recording everything. You feel like you live in a pentopticon anywhere in DC. It's like any given restaurant is probably bugged. But at the same time, yeah, like crocodile tears for people who are in that pent opticon because they are disproportionately powerful. I do think something gets lost in all of that, but it's hardly a major issue.

With Martha and Alito.

I also think it just this all came in the middle. Lauren Windsor, I think this is on June third, is talking to her in the middle of the flag drama. She sounded to me like she was desperate for a friend, And I know that's not like a Newsy takeaway, but man, it's sort of pulled up the heart strings a little

Have been disclosed.

Even though I'm personally a fan of Clarence Thomas, I think that stuff needed to be disclosed. I think we should have much stricter ethics to the Supreme Court. But that's why, you know, to marthy Analino, maybe it's it doesn't behoove you to talk to a stranger. And I think, you know, in clearer headed times, she probably would have known that, but she sounded sort of desperate.

Yeah, that's true. And one thing I wonder, though, why do they live in Chevy Chase.

Lives too.

I think he lives there too. You know, they've they've I mean, they live wherever they want. They're surrounding themselves with liberals for the most part, I thought they.

Lived in Virginia. I thought they lived out by like Fairfax.

I thought this was chevy Chase.

You might be right, Gallam might have been in chevy Chase.

Okay, well, but Katada does live there, he does, yes, Yeah, he's somewhere, Yeah, somewhere in that neighborhood. Anyway, let's move let's move on to unless you add any final thoughts on Martha Ann that you wanted to.

Share with us here, No, not at all.

I think think we covered that.

We can leave it right there, all right, So over in the Middle East, so Hamas, we can put up this Reuter's element here. Hamas has responded to the Biden slash Israel proposal of the Worgan and we'll talk about this in a moment.

Saying that it opens a broad.

Pathway was one of the quotes that they had, and they said they had a couple of amendments to the Israeli proposal, but in general said that they were now simply negotiating details around the final terms of a cease fire for this war. Now Israeli authorities have put a different spin on it. You put up a rock cre

So let's let's move. Let's move through these here. Uh, you can put up.

Blink and who landed in Qatar landing and culture today pressing forward with this, with these negotiations. Here is Blincoln yesterday laying out his position every on everybody else's position.

First, let me be very clear. Israel has accepted the proposal.

In fact, they were critical and putting it forward.

So the only party, no, that's that is what.

That is what the official.

Position of Israeli government in the Prime Minister.

So the only party that has not accepted, the only party that's not said yes, it's Amas. Meanwhile, Nana, who has called the proposal, the Israeli proposal a non starter if it does not allow Israel to indefinitely continue the war until Hamas is dismantled. But that's not what the agreement itself says, and Israel has acknowledged that it did send this agreement to hamas the agreement that Biden then elevated to try to trap nann Yahoo into accepting it.

This deal is Israel's proposal. Why can't Netanyahu say out right that he supports it?

Well, I don't know what he said to Secretary blink In today when they met defected. The defect that I wasn't instructed to speak out against the deal means that we accept the deal?

Does it?

Wouldn't it mean that you support it if you could come out and say you supported it.

But I'm saying here that we accept the deal. Again, It's pretty much depends on the way it will be interpreted by the negotiators, because.

You're saying we support it, but you're not just saying unequivocally that Israel does support it.

Because the words are very important, because when you say that, if the negotiations continues after six weeks, we need to continue with the ceasefire so Haramas can exploit this clause and continue with endless and meaningless negotiations. That means nothing. Obviously, that wasn't the meaning of President Biden.

So that's the key difference there. That the proposal says that after the first phase, which would include hostage exchanges, elderly women others who are infirm and at risk would be released in exchange for a significant number of Palestinian hostages that are held in attention by Israel. After that, there would be six weeks of negotiations toward a permanent ceasefire.

Although the Israeli proposal says.

Lasting cease fire, Hamas in its response, wants to change that from lasting ceasefire to permanent ceasefire. But the key point that the ambassador is making there is that they if the negotiations are still ongoing in six weeks, the agreement says that the ceasefire should continue as long as the negotiations are making progress. Israel is saying that it wants the right at that moment to relaunch its war.

He's like, no, definitely supports this.

Blincoln was at Blincoln met with nen Yahu yesterday and he was asked, did net Yah who explicitly say that he supported this? And Blincoln said yes, he did. Alynna Thomas Greenfield, the UN ambassador I was asked, was asked to explain this to say, you keep saying Israel supports this, Israel keeps saying that they do not, Like, how do you fill in that gap? And she said, look, I can't you know, they have some whatever domestic political concerns

They don't get a.

Vote, but they said that they would oppose it because it's a security council and they're not on the Security Council. That alone tells you that they're willing to quote unquote accept it.

So, uh, do you.

Think we've think we're getting to a place where we actually sort of now understand what's going on here?

Yes, I agree with that, and I do think we are because I think Reule is increasingly aware, as I am sure Hamasa is that the difference between lasting and permanent will ultimately be who can use that illusion as a cudgel sooner or more effectively, because we all know that this is not going to be a lasting or

That's an illusion or maybe a delusion, But.

I don't even think there's anybody delusional enough to think that that's the case. Meanwhile, though, lives hanging the balance amidst our ability to at least agree to the illusion, to at least agree in theory, to at least agree on paper, and that's a very strange place to be. It's sort of obvious that we know that a sticking point between lasting and permanent is really who can then turn around and say a permanent or lasting ceasefire was broken most effectively, because that's.

Inevitably what's going to happen.

So yeah, I think that's what's being discussed right now, that's what's being considered by both sides right now. And I don't think that's necessarily categorically.

A bad thing, because it could.

Save lives, It could be a stop gap as a better solution is worked out. Now I'm not optimistic less deadly, less violent solutions not worked is worked.

Out, and I'm not optimistic that could happen.

But a pause and hostilities right now, there are lives hanging in the balance. There's famine hanging in the balance. So categorically, while it may be sort of frustrating for people watching this play out, you know people really could be saved and protected by this.

You also have a scenario where you could have them agree to this six week pause, do a hostage exchange, and then see the war kick back up again at the end of July, right between the Republican and the Democratic conventions. And a lot of Democrats are worried because they know that Yahoo or they believe that net Nyah,

Now what his own what his own.

Domestic political situation would be like at that point is not is not even clear. And on the Hamasade, you certainly have elements that are opposed to a cease fire, that believe in Wark was quoted in the washing Wall Street Journal with some intercepted cable saying, we have Israel

And you know, the Palestinian people are out of you know that they feel like they're out of options, and so you know, there was a poignant quote I forget which publication ran with it this week after the hostage rescue from a Palestinian who said, what what were they doing in.

Relation to Hamas?

They knew that this hostage rescue was going to result in, you know, the deads of dozens of not hundreds, which it's looking like a very very high number of casualties, and you know, without another sort of governing body, without you know, someone else prosecuting the war on their side, Hamas has a monopoly basically on their political expressions.

And so Hamas can.

Afford to lose the support of the Palestinian people to a degree in a way that Israel cannot really afford to lose the support completely of the United States certainly and people around the world.

And that leads us to this next clip. The politics of.

This for Joe Biden are increasingly difficult in the middle of an election systems, in the middle of an election cycle. Let's take a look at this next clip of Biden being hit with some protesters, verbally being hit with some protesters just recently.

No no, no, no, no, no no no no no no no no no.

No, folks, folks, it's okay. Look, take care innocent children.

Have been lost.

They make a point.

Come on now, So from yesterday at a Mom's Demanded action gun event, by the way, just hours.

After the Hunter Biden gun conviction. Sort of an odd juxtaposition.

There, but right, this is going to follow him everywhere and could get even more heated. I mean, we've seen the encampments actually return to campuses UCLA. I think when popped up again at Columbia. It's not going anywhere for Biden. There's there's no question about it. And a peace deals

Yeah, And his response there, I thought was noteworthy in the sense that is much different than it had been in the past. Like in the past when he has gotten protested, he would just kind of thunder through and he would he would urge on the chance of four more years, and then he would say, you know, I am steadfast support of Israel.

Israel has a right to defend herself.

And instead this time he said he was trying to stop the chance of four more years and to say no, listen the protesters, they make a point.

A lot of children.

He said he had to do the passive voice, but I think and I think he tried to say they make a fair point. It came out as they make a point. But I think he was trying to sympathize with the protesters there, and I think that that reflects his shift in how he's viewing this and how like he is really now trying to force a cease fire

It'd be interesting if he just.

Took the same approach to Maas Tamas, like, now, we don't support this as it's written, we have some amendments, and just you just send blinkoln out there to say no, Hamas told us they support it. That'd be an interesting new way of doing diplomacy, if you just ignored what people said and just assert what the what the reality is and just kind of.

That sort of I kind of feel.

Like we've seen that and it's this again.

We've talked about this so many times, the uneven nature of having one major component or one major party to this war before two state solution, and the other major party to this war, the most major party to this war Israel, being in favor of but one state solution. Uh, you know, sort of bridging that gap between the two most consequential governments is leading to some predictably bizarre results. I'm glad you said that, though Ryan Beings I agree.

I had a similar reaction.

I thought that was politically, I'm just speaking about Joe Biden's performance as a politician, which has you know, nose dived in recent years. That was vintage Biden. That was the version of Joe Biden that you know people thought maybe had a shot in two thousand and eight, and actually back years before that too.

You know, he does have this.

Reflex to offer compassion in a way that is sort of casual, relatable, believable, and I think it was wise of him to do that in the moment that he had those protests. Now, politically, of course, it was wise of him because this isn't going anywhere, will follow him, literally follow him throughout the rest of the campaign, and you can't just ignore it.

And I think that's a good point because the American public knowing and the global public knowing that one of the only things if you only know one thing about Joe Biden, you know that he has this incredible ability to empathize and to feel your pain, and to know that about him, and then to see him show so little compassion for the plight of people in Gaza over the past eight months up until that clip, basically I think made it hit that much harder for so many

We can roll this.

We know, Jake Sullivan, you are a war criminal.

Fifteen thousand people, fifteen thousand him dead.

It's not self event.

Jake Sullivan, you are a war criminal.

Jake Sullivan, You're a war criminal.

Scho fifty.

Now the children dead and not self defense.

Fifteen thousand campers dead, it's not self defense. Fifteen dollar children dead, it's not defense.

And the context for these ceasefire talks down in the south is really what's going on in the north, if we can put up C seven here. So yesterday, in an air strike, Israel killed a top Hesbela commander, Abu Talb. Hesbela responded with one of its most furious assaults on Israel since the kind of low level war between the two of them began after October seventh.

And Hesbela has had.

A worrying amount of effect in being able to combat Israel's air superiority. From the Israeli perspective, They've knocked out millions of dollars worth of israel drones or American drones, I should say, from from the sky. UH even managed to manage to hit an iron dome launch system, which is UH, which is which is kind of shocking to kind of this Uh.

Israeli political system.

UH and you know, has much a much more serious arsenal and ability to kind of re arm than Hamas like that. There's just no question inside Israel, all of the attention is pivoting towards the north. There are about one hundred thousand plus Israelis who have evacuated from areas in the in the north, which is created which is creating a huge kind of housing crisis inside Israel, coupled with the evacuations of so many people from the South

And you know, this is really zooming out.

But just as you were talking, I'm thinking about what's happening right now people. There was a tweet was like, but you didn't have Cuban missile crisis two point zero on your Bengo card for twenty twenty four and got to be careful and not to you know, give the warmongers too much fodder. But it's true with that Russian ships, I mean, their own by their own admission, Russian navy flotilla has been making this way around the world.

They said to raise the flag. Basically, that's what Russian media has said.

And what we know now is that US warships have followed those Russian ships. We know obviously that Russia, Cuba, ron Venezuela. We could talk about why, but we know that there are alliances.

You throw China into the mix.

We know that there's another front or there's another hot war in Ukraine right now. Basically, what I think makes sense about zooming out here is to underline how fragile the ecosystem is right now, because it does feel like we've talked about what it looked like in the run up to World War One, and you know, does anyone

Right And to underline your point, this is after the US greenlit Ukraine using US weapons to strike into some targets inside Russia.

Now you've got these this Russia flotilla.

Down by southeast southeastern United States, and you know the US responding. If you add a let's say, a carpet bombing or a major bombing of Beirut to that, and how does how does it run respond to that? Yeah, uh, it's it's it's dark. Let's move back to the United

Let's put up this and we can back this up here.

But so put up this element here, So u a W President Sean Fain under investigation by federal watchdog. Court filing reveals So the court the filing was entered and entered by Neil Rovsky, who is the monitor. So for people who don't know the backstory here, the only reason that Sean Fain is president of the UAW is because in twenty twenty, the Department of Justice reached a consent decree with a very corrupt United Auto Workers. Two of

The result was Sean Fain winning this election.

Now, after Sean Fain came into power, there were some kind of turf wars inside and out of those turf wars, you now are seeing the elements of this investigation. Barofsky is claiming that Fain kind of improperly retaliated against a vice president who he fired because Faine has said publicly he didn't think that this vice president was doing a good enough job pushing the Stilantis organizing. That stillance was kind of walking all over the union workers there, and

The stupid grin on my face is because this is similar.

In a way.

It's such a different case, but it reminds me a little bit of what's on the docket with the Chevron case that's about to be decided by the Supreme Court, which was EPA making a decision on its own that lobster fishermen off the coast of I think it's main have to pay these monitors to comply with the EPA's regulations, and the ap SERS made that decision without going through

And in this case, I wonder, Ryan, I'm curious.

If there's a hair trigger because the uaw's corruption before Fane the sort of.

Revolution to use the word that you used, that revolution.

That he is sort of wrought inside of the UAW. The reason there has to be because it was coming from a place that needed a revolution for the better. It was in the shadow of corruption, and that was obviously very.

Damaging to the union movement.

And I'm just curious because I'm trying to wrap my head around why the Biden DOJ would bite on this, is it that they're on a hair trigger. They're almost trying to they think that maybe they're protecting the.

UAW from itself.

Is an internal politics, you know people people are maybe faint as controversial in ways privately with different people involved, different players, Like is there any internal drama? Basically, explain this to me, like what the motivation from the Biden DOJ might be in this way?

I think?

So the key point here is Borowsky is a fully independent monitor. And so this is this is a situation where you get a monitor in place, like when you get so you had ken Starr, for instance, as the independent Council under Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton couldn't do any anything about ken Starr, like once once that ken Starr Independent Council situation was set up, like that's what it was now politically, he could have tried to just get rid of the special Council perhaps, but then then he'd

He was the IG right after two thousand.

And eight, Right, that's right.

David Saroda's podcast.

I think it's called Meltdown and Bosky factors very heavily and it's fantastic lism.

Yeah.

I remember Barofsky from the reporting around the the Meltdown at the time, and so he at the time he was independent. He's independent now, so the d o J. So it's not clear what exactly the DJ could do, you know, if it wanted to, Like what's going on? In other words, is there something going on between Barofsky and Seawan Faine Borowski and the U A W. And it's new this is a this is a new flare up and it's post or organizing behind the Big three

Biden administration that's allied itself with Sean.

Fain, right exactly.

Yeah, so it's a strange situation.

Yeah, right, Biden went to the picket line. First president in history to join a picket line. When you speak with Sean.

Fain, I know you're used to labor stories not getting a lot of coverage in corporate media, but even so, I think this story has really been flying under the radar.

There's been so little coverage.

It sort of broke yesterday, but really no focus on it, and that seems wildly disproportionate to its importance, obviously, given Fayne's central role in this wave of the labor movement right now.

Yeah, and going forward, you know, he has set the next contract expiration for twenty twenty eight, and he's encouraging other unions around the country to also set their contracts to expire on the same date in twenty twenty eight, working toward not a total general strike, but working toward a mass kind of strike coinciding at the same on the same day in a in the next presidential cycle. So he is clearly calling his shot, and he's he's coming for the bosses in a major way.

And and does this is this is Borowski?

What is Barowski doing here? It's it's a it's a it's an open question that we're going to try to figure out.

A lot more to come on that.

Let's move on to Fox News editing part of Donald Trump's answer about whether he would release files related to Jeffrey Epstein out of an interview that aired on Fox and Friends earlier this week. Fox News then aired the entire interview with Trump without ostensibly without much editing on I think it was Will Kaine's podcast that was uploaded to YouTube, and people noticed that Trump's answer on Epstein

I'm sorry, it was two hours of talking.

You know, that gets condensed into a ten minute package, or into a two minute package for that matter.

So there's a lot of splicing.

There's a lot of chopping that's done in the editing process. Whenever you have a big sit down interview on a major news network.

That's common practice.

But take a listen to the way in which Donald Trump answered this Epstein question. The way that it was originally cut off was just him saying, yeah, I'll, you know, release the files. Listen to what he says after that. Let's run this clip. This is E two from Fox News.

Some people think that one way to build trust is to declassify things that everyone's talking about it.

I mean, you've talked earlier.

I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist.

So if you were president, would.

You declassify you can answer yes or notice.

Would you declassify the.

Nine to eleven files?

Yeah?

Would you declassify JFK files, Yeah.

Which I did. I did a lot of it.

Would you declassify the Epstein files?

Yeah?

Yeah, I would, all right, I guess I would. I think that less so because you know, you don't know, you don't want to affect people's lives of it's phony stuff in there, because there's a lot of phony stuff with that whole world. But I think I would, or at least.

Do you think that would restore trust?

Help restore trust?

I don't know about Epstein so much as I do the other there's certainly about the way he died. It would be interesting to find out what happened there, because that was a weird situation and the cameras didn't happen to be working, et cetera, et cetera. But you'd go a long way toward that one the other stuff.

I would.

So that originally aired on Fox and Friends, but was cut off right when Donald Trump said yeah, I would, and then everything else he said was a major backtrack. By the way, it's incredibly significant news anytime Donald Trump talks about jeff rep scene, anytime anyone in a position of power talks about Jeffrey Epstein. For what it's worth for a news outlet, I think actually to get Donald Trump talking like that about Jeffrey Epstein is a pretty big story. So again, they cut that off. We can

I think that less so because you don't know.

You don't want to affect people's lives if it's phony stuff in there, because it's a lot of phony stuff with that whole world.

But I think I would.

I don't know about Epstein so much as I do the others, certainly about the way he died, it'd be interesting to find out, but yeah, I'd go a long way.

Toward that one.

So sort of a typical Trump answer. You don't totally know what it means. It's almost effectively hard to make out. But the editing, I think where you're just going rapid fire through JFK. Yeah, I already did a lot of it, and you get to Epstein would and immediately, well, you know, there's a lot of phony stuff, you.

Know, less so with Epstein than others.

Right.

Obviously Epstein was sort of in that Palm Beach world. Obviously there's that famous footage of him with Donald Trump kind of partying at mar Alago. Some people have claimed that there was recruitment happening at Mar a Lago of girls who were sex trafficked essentially, so I think it's a fairly significant I think it was a great question from Rachel Campbell.

Steffie what happened here? Is this? Is this you know in a way?

Is this a defense of Fox, saying we ended up putting up the whole thing.

There was nothing to hide.

Or is it them sort of being caught editing it by later uploading the whole thing, maybe not realizing that people would notice the discrepancy.

I mean, I think they got caught. I think, but I think, you know, different people made different decisions. I don't think it was you know, from the top. What we're going to do is we're going to edit this to make it palatable for our seniors who watch on Fox, and then we're going to let the whole part go out on Will Kaine's podcasts. I don't think they exactly did it that way, but a system is what it does.

Do, that in other words, he's not gonna do anything. Uh. And that was clear.

You didn't need the other minute of rambling excuses about why he's not going to do anything.

He's not.

H But yeah, so I think they wanted to I wouldn't think they wanted to keep that from the audience. There's no other way of, uh.

Of understanding that.

But I think there must be different kind of editorial processes that that play out on at different levels, Like you can't completely keep an interview out from say a podcast or whatever. And then to your point, there's that there's that great quote from great isn't the word? There's a quote from Trump and the Vanity Fair article that

Uh.

And you're like oh, okay, this Trump knew. Trump knew what was going on here, and so it gives credence to all the other stuff that you hear about mar A Lago and the recruitment.

And there's that quote.

And there's also another thing that turned a lot of people's heads. You'll remember this Ryan when he said he was asked about Gaillen Maxwell and said something to the extent of I just wish her well.

I think that was the quote, I just wish her well.

Which again, it sort of gives you pause when you look at someone like Jeffrey Epstein, who reporting not suggests, but reporting really has documented, had links to Masad and Gillien Maxwell as well, through her father or through other channels, was collecting videotapes, was putting other powerful people in extremely compromising positions potentially to extract policy favors out of it.

And for a news outlet, this is a big deal.

I mean, everyone watches the cut of an interview with the President. I know he's been on Fox many times, but anytime you get to sit down interview with the president. Executives are watching that cut before it goes to air. It's very sensitive on the corporate level. So yeah, I agree with you. I think people made different editorial decisions. The Will Kine radio show aired the whole thing, and good for them for airing the whole thing without cutting

So it does seem like there was something intentional.

Yep, I think so.

And so I think, in other words, neither president, neither candidate running for president now is going to give us anything more when it comes to Epstein, and he said, you know, maybe maybe something on how he died or whatever he said there. He died while Trump was president.

That's right, let's not forget that, although.

It's also the Trump You know why I thought that was interesting just quickly while you said that, because that's something I thought about too, is he felt like the intelligence agencies were out of his control, certain spun out of his control, And so it was fascinating to me that that was the one thing Trump said he would want to know more about and would release publicly, is how he died because you know, obviously, if you're you're someone that could potentially be compromised by Epstein, and.

Who knows if he would. I mean, I don't know.

That Trump is compromised by Epstein because of the fact that he publicly said, you know, Jeffrey les Young, but there's some reason to have questions about it. So anyway, all that is to say good and.

Not just that, Yeah, his his labor secretary, Alexander Costa. Yes, it was the US attorney who cut the incredibly sweet deal with Epstein and who was who has who basically was said like, yeah, I was told he had intel ties and told to like, you know, make it basically make this go away, and then he's rewarded as Trump's it's the labor secretary, so he could he could start there if he wanted to, you know, probe that a little bit. Just go ask his own labor secretary what happened.

Good suggestion to go talk to Wacosta.

You said you heard this. Who'd you hear it from?

Yeah? No, I agree.

Well, Ryan, our next guest, just a very big interview, and I'm so grateful to you for setting it up and your coverage of Pakistan has just been fantastic, so I'm looking forward to having Shabbas Gill join the show next.

All right, stick around for that.

The US backed Pakistani government is now abducting and arresting family members of political activists who's only involvement in politics is that they are related to people who are here in the West, the United States, Canada or elsewhere and are lobbying United States government in order to pressure Pakistan to respect human rights over in Pakistan. We put up

Thank you Rian for having me.

And before before we get into the broader political context here, you update us on your own personal situation. You were, you know, how is your brother? Have you heard from him since he was abducted just days ago?

Right, no Vaya votes.

Actually between the night of eighth and ninth of you he was abrected from Lahore.

We do not know about his whereabouts.

His cell phones are completely off, his vehicle disappeared, and of course he disappeared.

Nobody knows who took him.

Away where they actually abducted him, Like he was leaving from his home to Islamabad, another city and during this journey they abducted him. So this is a regular practice right now actually to silence people. That has been done and we have never seen as you are already read the statement of Azarmashwani that this is the first time we are witnessing in Pakistan that any regime is going this far, that they are.

Actually attacking your families.

I've before this disappeared, I've been threatened in US.

I've been conveyed through.

Middlemen, through intermediaries that I have to be silenced. I have to stop my activities which I'm doing for democracy, freedom of speech, rule of law in Pakistan, especially the release of Imran Khan and other women in the jail. I was meeting US lawmakers, you know that I had several meetings with the other watchdogs and other people. And that was actually and I was protesting, of course in different places, organizing protests with the help of my party

And then of course my daily.

Vlog where I update people about the current situation in Pakistan, political situation, what is happening. So it is it is in a way, it's against the law here in the US that they are harming my family and then blackmailing me while I'm here in the US that what I should do and what should I not do? So, uh, that is the situation right now.

Yeah, and you yourself are obviously a very prominent critic of the government. Your your show that you mentioned is you know, watched by millions of people, so there's no secret about what your position is. But what is your brother's involvement in politics at all?

If at all, I.

Don't think so, even if he has any social media account, like she never commented on politics. He has nothing to do on politics. He's a regular person who's spending his life is his wife and two sons. One of his sons is very young and very attached to his father, like five or six years old. So he's very very regular Pakistani person who's spending his life with his family and working day to day for his life. That's it,

They see that could speak truth.

Are make people aware because in Pakistan there's a complete gag orders enforced on Pakistani media. Nobody can speak other than what they really want them to speak. And if you remember the case where I got abducted, previously, there was a prominent journalist Asha Shariv who had to leave the country and later on he got assassinated in Kenya. So after that situation was not the same in Pakistan.

I mean over the wordstaff.

But they never treated like They've never given their opinion publically, which is a norm in Pakistan usually they do. We all reciprocate to each other. If anything wrong happened to anyone, we raise voice for that person. And even the situation is so worse that majority of our party people now even they can't speak like my own party, the political party, majority of people couldn't even tweet. There's a so so strong pressure over them that it's other Mashwali's brothers are it's my brother.

They cannot even come on the Twitter.

And read that one of our fellow party members, family member got aprected and we condemned this. It's has so much harassment, so much pressure on those people, that people are afraid of speaking truths.

Now Heroing and Shabaza wanted to ask, maybe if you could sort of zoom out and give us the broader context of why it's so important for them to crack down on descent, Why they don't want people speaking freely and critically of the government.

Why is that so important.

Emily, We need to understand fus Pakistan. Pakistan never had an ideal democracy or even democracy true democracy. It is always military controlled. Our military hatched democracy, our military I would say enforced democracy, whatever you.

Want to say.

Pakistan never had, unfortunately, ideal of democracy and everybody knows that since the inception of Pakistan, it's the Pakistani military establishment which controls everything when it comes to governing the country majority of the time.

But the real problem.

We need to understand about Pakistan that Pakistan is very different than any other Muslim country. Pakistan, we have to go back. During the British regime of eighteen fifty seven, people fought for freedom war and then later on it continued until nineteen forty seven. So all the people from India and Pakistan and Bangladesh today there are three different countries. Of course at that time it was larger in India. They fought for their freedom, they exercised their democratic rights,

No, you will see movements like maybe for a few.

Months they can curb and then you will see people again on the street. So Pakistani society, pakistan societies.

Overall makeup is very different.

So they have a very strong desire and urge for democracy. Pakistanis really desired strongly for the freedom of speech and Pakistanis are very vocal when it comes to their basic human rights and their freedom of speech. So especially Himran Khan, who has given a completely different I would say flavor in politics. See, he came up with his party twenty eight twenty seven years ago with the name that Justice Party and he told people that the biggest trouble is

If we get justice, and.

Those people who are doing these criminal activities, they are, they could be, they could be placed behind the bars, are they could be you know, slammed with some kind of cases. So I don't think any anyone in future would try to do these kind of objections. But our problem is that we never Pakistan was never able to prosecute such people. Rather political workers got prosecuted, but such people never got prosecuted by the state or by any government.

It does seem like the court system is trying in a halting and kind of feeble way, but at least in at least in a way to push back against the establishment. At this point, they've thrown out or suspended a number of Imran Khan's you know, kind of trumped up prosecutions. The only one that he's still being held in prison for at this point, is this really bizarre and embarrassing kind of un Islamic, embarrassing for Pakistan's government,

Ran I was in such cell for more than a beek actually for a couple of weeks. So it's uh six feet five five and a half to six feet wide and nine feet along cell windowless, a very small hole which is also covered with an exhaust fan, a very small.

That is for the light and air, and uh.

An open Indian toilet within this cell within these nine and six measurements. You can imagine, so after if you take that toilet out, you end up having only six feet maybe a few inches more For just to adjust yourself and sleep on that concrete slab. And they gave they gave him a very thin mattress you can see,

File I was in such cells. They used to make me sleep on the floor.

So this is inhuman and from every aspect, this is inhuman. The way they are treating him, This cell is an embarrassment for rule of law. This cell is an embarrassment for human rights. This cell is an embarrassment for democracy. Like he's the most popular democratic leader, he's an ex prime minister, ninety percent overwhelming support with him and people want him back as a prime minister.

And he's been placed in jail in such a shameful.

Case that he got married his wife before fulfilling that required in their own mind, required time in the two divorces, because she got divorced from her previous husband and got married with the Prime Minister Khan. And their case is that they got married. Their case, which is not a truth. But if we even take their case is that they got married after forty eight days of her divorce from

So this case is already settled in the courts and.

Even the religious scholars, all of the religious scholars already condemned this behavior of current regime.

So this is a mockery of religion.

This is a mockery of unfortunately, rule of law and Pakistani constitution just to keep him in the jail well Ran The most important point is that Prime Minister Khant has played his.

Vital role and he will be.

In Challah playing his vital role once again in Pakistan. But the way he changed the social fabric and political fabric in Pakistan, that is unprecedented. He has given, he has given a hope and he has given people a new orientation. I would say in the political landscape where people want to speak given with more strength.

People are not ready to buy Pakistani military.

Establishment will always was always successful, hiding behind courtes and hiding behind all this persecution and making it look like prosecution and making it look like that politicians are incompetent.

They are corrupt, they are compromised, they are not.

Honest and patriot with with with Pakistan.

So these were the charges. And sometime if we.

Need is they go after a character assassination and their family members and all those things. But they were never, you know, open in the in the field, in front of the people that they are the one there too.

Everybody knew that, but there was no admission.

There was nobody accusing them directly, and they were not answerable directly to the people of Pakistan. What Prime Minister hand died and it's very brave of him that he called them out in the public and in the open that it.

Is you who is behind all this.

So this is the first time military establishment is feeling real pressure and real criticism and public accountability, of course not in any court, but public accountability in the court

And Schabaz, how did you escape that? How did you get out of Pakistan?

Emily.

That's prior to night May ninth, which was another orchestrated operation against by Sandy cames off. After that, everything changed, like quotes impact and I would say quotes orientation also changed. Our courts are very very limited to their ability to provide justice. But before ninth May, we were having at least and until then Prime mister Hahn was not got arrested and he was also getting some kind of relief from the courts in terms of bails and other stuff.

So April last year, like.

Twenty twenty three March and April, I went to quote a prominent TV anchor Imrandre and myself our cases were in the court and Lahore High Court permitted me to leave the country. So Imran Riaz was able to leave the country. Myself was able to leave the country. Unfortunately, Imran Rias went back after completing his Omerah and.

I also wanted to go back.

On sixteenth of May twenty twenty three, my flight was booked. But then that ninth May happen and the way they arrested Prime mister Khan and they physically roughed up with him, and you have seen all that over the video evidence. What has happened when they arrested Prime mister Khan. So after a couple of days, when Prime mister Hahn got released, he told me not to come back right now because he could foresee what is happening and what will happen in coming days.

So that was the time.

Then it was decided that I'll stay here in the US and I'll continue my activities from there. But it was with the court orders of the three member bench, a larger bench, which which made me travel, which allowed me to travel out of Pakistan.

And you mentioned h im Ron Riaz.

Here we actually if you can put up the element F four uh, we we have footage of him. This is from yesterday headed to the airport and getting abducted. And you can see the way that these abductions happened. This is not you don't see a lot of You see a few kind of authority type figures somewhere in the background, but mostly these are all just plane closed people surrounding his car. Uh and they and they eventually took him.

Uh.

This is a journalist, very prominent journalist, who, according to all the reporting underwent you know, horrific torture, emerged from custody. It seemingly a changed person, yet with intense courage, like you said, continued to speak out. Uh and continued speaking out from inside Pakistan.

Uh.

It's horrific to think of him now back under their control and considering what they could potentially do to him. And I don't want you to necessarily relive your your own detention, but it's been widely reported that you know, you suffered incredible amounts of torture as well. And I'm curious if, from your perspective, was the torture aimed at actually extracting information from you or was it just was

And all right, I would talk about it.

Actually, there's a history to it again when Zulkar Ali Bhuttu got persecuted by Pakistani at that time is Pakistani military establishment. They picked up one of his deputy Macmooth Maso Masoth Macmooth, I'm sorry, his name was Masud Mamouth and he got picked up and they of course tortured him and then they were able, they were successful to take a statement against Zulfkarli Bhutto was a concorded statement.

Say, illegitimate legal case.

And later on, after thirty five years, Supreme Court of Pakistan now agreed and issued a verdict that that was a judicial killing, that was not a.

Fair trial, that was not a fair case.

So they were repeating exactly the same episode with me when they abducted me as a chief of staff. They wanted me to give a statement against Prime mister Khan that he's involved with Beijing war against Pakistani military and he's involved in mutiny, he's involved in sedition and he is the one actually who wants to create chaos and he wants a civil war in Pakistan against the Pakistani military and a Pakistani constitution.

So this is what they wanted me to say in the court. This is what they wanted me to.

Appear in the court of law and give this statement against him. And then of course had I given that statement, they would make sure that his faith is similar to zulfkaributto what has been done to him, what had been done to him.

They would repeat the same. So that was the actual purpose.

So of course information gathering are extracting information about.

The party, party work and about Imran Khan.

That was there too, But the main aim was to get a statement from me against prime insta rant. So that was the main objective. To abduct me and then torture me. And you know, even I was facing trial and charges of sedation and mutiny where I could face and I still have that trial under the process in Pakistan, where I could even be given a death sentence in that case.

How did you resist making those statements?

I must be made of much softer stuff, I feel like, you know, by the end of the day, by the end of the first day, I'd be like, just give just give me whatever you want. Like, how did you mentally and physically maintain your your your integrity?

Ryan?

It is of course physical pain.

When when when so much physical pain is given to any person?

We are all human beings.

I'm not a I'm not a terrorist or trained a criminal.

I am a regular. I'm an academission.

All my life I taught in universities, worked into classrooms, our research labs, and I was never trained for such kind of horrific torture. But then we, uh, we have a faith in our Allah that once you go through such things, there's a there's a reason you have put into such tests.

And maybe that was a time for me.

To go through such a horrific experience, But actually it was a test for me to either I stand by my principles are not. It was difficult, I must admit it was difficult. Many At times I used to think, Okay,

That was I think one of the things which made me decide this.

And then I emerged from a very small local village.

Of Psalabad. So I.

Had a feel that if I would not stand up, if I would not show courage, people from my area will be embarrassed. Like this person was the deputy and the hand picked person of Prime Minister Imraan Khan as his chief of staff. And even if I'm giving any statement which is a truth against my leader, any I'm talking about any political difference or anything, even that would cause a lot of embarrassment to people, those who are close to me, people those admire me for my stance

Wear it, I must let it happen.

What is happening, and I must talk to my Allah that give me some strength so that I can go through all this pain and torture.

But the end of the day, I should not fall through, should not go down.

To the pressure that will leave me in embarrassment and paying for the rest of my life.

That's incredible.

Yeah, I hope I never have to find out, but if I do, I would would I can't. I can't imagine the fortitude that it took. But that's uh, it's it's really interesting to hear the way that you kind of talked, your talked your way through it and your faith and you're also your your love for your hometown and the people around them that that pushed you through it.

Thank you so much for for joining us and sharing this with.

Us, and I I just want to thank you and your team on the behalf of entire Pakistan.

You are a celebrity, no uh, and everybody knows you.

I think you are maybe one of them if I would say three four names in the entire world from the Western media are international media outside the Pakistan, maybe you are one one.

Of those two or three people in the.

Entire world who Pakistani watches. They read your work, they interact with your Twitter. You know that they give you compliments, they give you and of course there would be some military regime back people must be threatening you as well. But I'm really really thankful on behalf of Pakistani nation, on behalf of Imran Khan, on behalf of all those women, especially, I must not forget to salute and.

I actually appreciate our women. Actually they are the one those are making difference.

It's the first time in Pakistani history that any military regime put women behind the bar for such an extended period.

And again this is the first in Pakistan.

The way they are responding, the way they are standing tall with all the courage and facing all such pressures and facing all brutality of the state institutions. But still they are not giving up their hopes, they are not giving up their truth, They're not giving up their right to speak, their right to have rule.

Of law and democracy in Pakistan. So I.

Would say, if one segment of the society is most admirable, more admirable than I would say sacrifice contribution anyone else sacrifice the contribution. It's our women and our journalists like Shidashushly got assassinated in Chinia and he.

Was You make an interesting point because, yeah, the United States has takes so much pride in the way that it stands up for the rights of women around the world. But women have played an extraordinary role in Pakistan in the democratic awakening there and have had the American boot put put on their necks as a result. Thanks and thank you for the kind words. And you know, here here's to a better day ahead for Pakistan and for everyone around the world.

Thank you again for joining us.

Thank you.

Thanks for that was Shabba's Gail, former chief of staff to Prime Minister then Prime Minister im Ron Khan, now his media advisor here in the United States. I mean that was intense, uh And actually one thing I was thinking while he was talking is that I Ran Khan might be the figure in the world that represents your politics maybe better than anybody else. A true like religious social conservative, but also very pro worker. It's it's kind of like the compact politics that's like this, this kind

It's interesting also because he gets very little attention from the crowd on the right that will give a lot of attention to Victor Orbon or Melae or others. And I think probably faith is the key roadblock on that question. But still, I was so glad that Shabaz mentioned how impactful and influential your reporting has been, because domestically, to your point, domestically, I think people are paying so little attention to this despite the fact that the American boot.

As you put it, is.

Weighing really heavily in Pakistan right now. I mean, the media coverage and attention here so disproportionate to America's role in the situation in Pakistan. Your reporting has just been huge, And you know, I thought that was a really well placed gratitude because.

It's meant a lot. I don't know a lot of people over there.

Randomly becoming a celebrity in Pakistan was not something I had in my life's bingo card. But it's been gratifying and if nobody else is gonna cover it in the West, we're gonna We're gonna do it, so I'm glad that glad to see there's an audience for it.

There absolutely and this is this Friday Show is going to be with Orange Cass.

I know we mentioned that again.

We will be back here next Wednesday, obviously with counterpoints. Make sure to subscribe at breakingpoints dot com to get all of counterpoints, so you don't just get a.

Few clips, you get the whole show. You get it early.

If you're a subscriber and you get the Friday Show early

As well, all right, we'll see you then,