5/1/25: Trump Signs Ukraine Mineral Deal, Tesla Searches For New CEO, Rubio Plots Global Gulag, Pritzker Attacks Do Nothing Dems, Tech Ceo Says All Jobs Will Go To AI, Alex Jones Turns On Trump

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Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points.

A bunch of stuff going on today, aamily.

This is a very full show.

Oh yeah, we kept adding things up until like the time I went to bed last night, so.

And then afterwards. Yeah true, oh very Elon was up, Elon was sweeting.

The Tesla board was sweeting. Lots of things were unfolding before we get to that. So that I don't forget Spotify users. I know some of you guys are still having issues getting the video to load. We are talking to Spotify trying to work it out. We're kind of at the whims of these tech giants, so please bear with us. Sorry for the technical difficulties, but we're doing everything we possibly can to resolve it. Because when it works. It is a great experience on Spotify. So we're going

Totally support this.

The girls can only have two dolls, he said, maybe you'd have thirty.

But now you only have two.

I have too.

We'll play the videos.

Yeah, it's something, It's really something.

As we were mentioning Elon, there was a report from the Wall Street Journal that Tesla is looking for a new CEO Elon, and the Tesla board now disputing that. But obviously that is a remarkable turn of events. And Tesla's dock has been plummeting in the Trump two point zero era and their sales have fallen off the cliff because Elon is so toxic, etcetera. So a lot to

So interesting insights.

They're also one of the pro Palestine students foreign students who had been arrested and detained, has now been released. And what the judge says about that is also quite extraordinary and would have huge implications if this is upheld, you know, in higher level courts, huge implications for all of the foreign students who have been detained simply for their speech with regard to Palacin. So that's a really

Can we call them meetball JB?

That's inappropriate, That's we got to come up with something original. Lets men have Rhonda Santis yet, come on it.

True, it do better. You're not right, Yeah, you're right, you're right.

But he's being he got asked.

Weigel actually asked him an interesting question about like, well, are you and oligarch and so his answer was was pretty interesting and revealing any washersound there. Gretchen Whitmer is out there, but with Donald Trump apparently, and not just political instincts I've ever seen.

Butshers on Fox News, Whitmer is giving speeches in front of Trump.

Trump's hundred day rounds.

You're weird, yep.

So lots of different tactics being deployed by these early contenders. I wanted to get this story into the show. Mark Andresen made some crazy comp i mean not crazy perfect comments about AI where basically said he thinks AI is going to replace everyone but him. Yeah, venture capitalists will be the only ones who are not replaced by AI.

The valuable people. That's right. Yeah, that's whe we create.

Well truly irreplaceable. There's that industry.

No computer could ever.

These guys are amazing and we want to try to get to some comments from Alex Jones little critique of Trump alongside Fetess, who has long been critiquing Trump from the right as a Nazi Trump not being Nazi enough so but anyway, kind of interesting there and fits with some of the other like little critiques that you've seen come out of Magalworld visa be Trump.

Yeah.

I mean this is a big show, and part of it is because Crystal. You just had to get Mark andresen and the what it resist?

I can't.

I can't resist that code hand. What could I say?

Looking forward to it? It'll be good.

Let's start with the mineral deal in Ukraine. We can put the first element up on the screen breaking news yesterday.

This is from the Wall Street Journal Ukraine.

US sign economic deal for minerals, and the journals subheading there is the two countries finally reaching agreement after several false starts. You'll remember the mineral deal is what was on the table when Zelenski visited the White House and the infamous Oval Office meeting transpire just a couple of months ago.

Now they're back at it.

They finally got that deal signed, which I think Crystal was very predictable that it was ultimately going to happen. The fits and starts felt more like personnel personal I should say not personnel personal hurdles for Zelensky and Trump to both overcome in order to feel confident that it made sense.

I don't even know personal hurdles, more like posture.

Because the reality is There's an incredible quote here from this woman, Heidi Kribo Ruddicker, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, who says this is a win win deal because quote, the US will have a vested interest in the geology that the Ukrainians will be fighting for. And this is you know, this is what Zelenski had been pushing, This is what Lindsay Graham had actually been presenting as a way to keep the Trump administration invested

I don't want to like, you know, I don't want.

To fear monger here, but that's effectively the dynamic that's being set up. This would be a long term engagement in the future of Ukraine, which is why, you know, it's what Selenski wanted, It's what Lindsay Graham wanted, et cetera. And I, you know, I always thought that the show in the in the Oval with Zelenski. You and I differed on this saga, and I differ on this as well.

Yeah, there's a The journal says there's a distinction that was previously so it doesn't require Ukraine to repay past military aid, and that I suppose is a pretty significant change, but not dramatic. I mean, it's it's definitely a new thing. But it also includes, as Wall Street Journal says, the US being able to count new military aid into Ukraine as a contribution to the fund. So yeah, makes sense

There was some reporting that Zelenski was kind of overblowing over selling.

Yeah, what is actually there?

Now it's also could be possible that it's not fully known, like it's not fully mapped out what sort of minerals they're there. I was also wondering if the tariff, the trade war has put a little bit of pressure on the Trump administration to get this mineral deal done, because China is of course cutting off the supply of some of the rare earth minerals that would presumably be you know, be available within Ukraine. So that may have also provided some of the impetus to get this signed.

At this point.

And I should also say, you know, as we're recording this, we don't actually have all the details. There's a few details in this Wall Street Journal report. There's been a few details that are on there public. We saw a previous draft that included not only minerals rights, but basically that the US would effectively economically colonize Ukraine with control over you know, half of ports and half of a lot of economic activity in the country in perpetuity, above

Of course, that doesn't.

Guarantee that it would be brought to the floor. You would need you know, John Thune to decide that this needs to be brought to the floor.

By the end of the week. Lindsay Gram's predicting the bill.

Will have at least sixty seven co sponsors. That would be enough to override even a potential presidential veto. Trump himself has not weighed in on this, on this potential bill that Lindsay Graham is working on, But I mean,

Well, yeah, and you know, it's important to actually think it's a really important story to tack onto the context of signing this deal, because the hopeful you know, even

But they're also incredibly corrupt.

This was the entire Republican argument against Barisma and Hunter Biden, and so it's definitely putting the United States into a

To the entire purpose of inking this particular deal. But we'll see where things go.

Yeah, indeed, I mean I think there's a lot of question marks. It's hard to see. It doesn't feel like we're terribly close to a cease fire at this point, but you never know where we're going to end up. And certainly, by signing this minerals deal, you are committing the US to Ukraine for the long term so that a bunch of billionaires can get their stuff and get their rare earth minerals out of the ground benefit from it.

You know. This is another thing the Journal had a story on not long ago, is that Chevron and Shell have tried to mind in Ukraine, but the corruption in Ukraine has made it extremely difficult for that process to be done in a way that's profitable for them.

And so now we're just going.

Even fully more into the experiment of trying to extract minerals from Ukraine in an effort to stop a brutal conflict that would further I mean, if the United States sates this has a potential security guarantee, that is a really scary thing. Actually, yeah, right, Like we're at.

The whims of Ukrainian oligarchs.

I mean, we'll have more control over them now at this point, although we always had control over them. But that's what's so gross about this is that it's just American oligarchs mingling their interest with Ukrainian aligarchs in the lives of thousands of people hang in the balance based on not just the military concerns but also the economic concerns. So it's definitely not the cleanest solution to this war.

Unfortunately, unfortunately, Americans don't understand the word oligarchs, so I don't think they're really going to be able to grasp what's going on here. Emily, they don't watch enough breaking points. All right, let's get to the tariffs. We had a big cabinet meeting. It was so grotesque the level of North Korea propaganda and like slavish devotion to the dear leader that was on display.

We'll put that aside for the moment.

Trump sort of jumped in here and after the GDP numbers came out and were really bad, and the inflation numbers were bad, and the employment numbers were really bad, he felt like he needed to say something about the direction that the economy was going in and that something was, it's all the fault of the last guy.

Let's take a lism.

You frequently took credit for the stock market highs. You said it was a reflection of how well you were doing in the polls. And then after you were elected, you said the stock market highs were a reflection of how well the transition's going and the American people's confidence in your incoming administration. Now stock market's not doing so well, and you're saying that's the Biden stock market. Yet you are the president. Can you I'm.

Not taking a credit or discredit for the stock market. I'm just saying that we inherited a mess both at the borders. You could look at every single one of the people here and no matter who it is, they're doing better and they are far superior to what took

So he's not taking credit or discredit. But it is all Binde's fault, which is also what he opened the meeting up with, is like, you know, I know, you saw some numbers. It's all Biden's fault. Put this up on the screen. This is amazing. People were sharing this two different, two different vibe here from Donald Trump on true social So this latest one from April thirtieth, that would be just this week. This is Biden's stock market, not Trump's. I didn't take over until January twenty is

Just amazing.

I mean he's always had this fixation understandably, So, I mean, we could debate the value of stock market for the average person's finances.

But he's always been obsessed with.

Tracking stock markets and in an effort to sort of attach them to himself. When I mean, yeah, it's been going up, so it's like great for him.

I mean it's the sort of real time indicator that's kind of irresistible, you know.

One hundred percent right, And so it was that was actually always one of the things I found somewhat amusing to extend anything was amusing during the Liberation Day couple weeks. I mean, honestly, there were many things that we're amusing during those couple of weeks, but it was always like he has been obsessed with his influence on the stock market for this long. How is he going to handle it? It turns out he has already made excuse, it's just Biden.

Yeah, exactly right.

So one person in particular day Port apparently not buying the spin here from Trump, we can put this up on the screen from him, he says, what's that old expression, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Well, that applies here.

The stock market is a direct reflection of Trump's first one hundred.

Days in office.

Doesn't mean it won't get better, and that we don't need to be patient. But this is his market, not Biden's. So Portnoy has been has said some other things critical.

I think he doesn't like the tariffs.

He did originally say something critical about the Trump shitcoin before sort of reversing course and being.

Like, this is great. I'm going to get rich off of it. Whatever.

So anyway, he's high profile, and so anytime he says something critical it is interesting. This is really the moment from this cabinet meeting and press conference.

That is so wild to me.

So he's getting asked about the price of toys in particular, and you know, yes, Christmas feels a long way away now, but actually the retailers who would mean to stock up for Christmas there should be placing those orders right now, and all of that is kind of on hold. So he gets asked a question in this direction. Take a listen to his response.

They made a trillion dollars when with Biden a trillion dollars, even a trillion one with Biden selling this stuff, much of it we don't need, you know. Somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to be open, Well, maybe.

The children will have two dollars instead of thirty dollars, you know, and maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally, But we're not talking about something that we have to go out of our way.

They have ships that are loaded up with stuff, much of which not all of it, but much of which we don't need.

Many people saying like, okay, you're just the grunch now, like that that's your political move is just like the kids, they don't need toys. What are we talking about here?

It's wild that he actually said it, right, because that's the underlying it's you know, this is like sort of cut pastint coming out and saying the essence of the American dream is not cheap goods. And that caught a lot of people on the right sort of off guard because it's the conversation that has been percolating in like white paper intellectual circles on the right for the last like five ish years.

But the problem is it's.

A political disaster because you have to say things like, for example, maybe the kids will have two dollars instead of thirty.

And they're going and those two dollars are going to cost more.

Yes the way, well, oh my gosh, absolutely, But that's the I mean, it's true that at this point you could probably get thirty dollars for like three hundred dollars, and it's kind of insane. I mean, there's definitely a bubble right now in cheap prices, but to actually do what Donald Trump has done with the tariff regime that he's put in place, two dolls, we're using the dolls

I mean, I know he doesn't have to get re elected, although we can well we'll see what he said. What do you have to say about that?

But man, other Republicans do Ja d Vance might have to run for president at some point.

Yeah, I mean, here's here is the thing. And I feel like a broken record. If there was some deal on the table which was, Okay, your kids are not going to get thirty dollars, they're going to get to but you're going to be able to afford housing, you're going to be able to get healthcare, education is going to be cheaper, it's going to be you know more it's going to be higher quality. You're going to be

Then we could talk.

We could talk, right, we could consider maybe that is an improvement over. Basically, the American dream is centered or around cheap consumer goods. That is the American dream at this point, as has been sold and implemented over decades and decades.

There is no.

Alternative deal on the table.

So all that he's advertising here is my plan is going to make you poor. You're going to be able to buy fewer things. Those things are going to be more expensive, and there is no compensation for that on the other side. So, and which is why this has been profoundly unpopular. I mean, of all the things that he has done, many of which almost all of which have been profoundly unpopular in this second.

Term the Teriff regime.

When you ask people what's his biggest grew up, it jumps off.

The page in terms of what they're concerned about.

And so I think it would always be difficult to ask people at this point in time in American history to sacrifice in service of some larger goal. I think that would be a difficult sell in general. But there is no larger goal that is being offered or advertised or has any like clear cut paths being achieved, right, So instead you're just telling people your kids.

Are going to be unhappy on Christmas and.

You are going to be poor and able to afford less stuff than you can afford.

Now, there's no clarity or light at the end of the tunnel. And I think the other word that we come down on a lot of certainty, because with more certainty you could understand how companies would be adjusting with employment, they would be adjusting with their plans for the future.

One of the interesting parts of the GDP report yesterday. Actually we did talk about that yesterday, But.

That's I think the difficulty, both politically and on the substance for the administration going forward is that if you want to make this case that maybe people won't be getting thirty things on shean for three bucks whatever, and they'll have to buy five things that cost twenty dollars instead, if you want to make that.

Argument, you have to have a lot to show for the.

Point about this being manufacturing in the US, like creating jobs being built here revitalizing communities, and obviously that's a very difficult thing to do within the.

First month of this.

But what we've seen evidence wise is a whole lot of manufacturers leaving and jobs leaving, and we have not seen deals inked with like serious substance of deals inked with other countries. Yeah, and so that's where I mean, that's both the substance in the style being married into one. That's where it's going to get really difficult for them to keep making that case.

It reminds me, this rhetoric reminds me of like the de growth Left.

You know, Oh, great point, which is absolutely politically toxic and unpopular.

No, that's such a good point.

And there's a reason why when the Green New Deal came out and they screwed up when they sent out the draft and there was like some language in there about cutting back on meat consumption or something like that, and they ran away from it at a million miles per hour because they knew, like, we we are going to be in a completely politically untenable position if we're asking people to give up some of the things that they are accustomed to and that they enjoy and appreciate,

There is just a recognition in the.

Sort of like Green New Deal Left that some of these things you just they're just politically effectively impossible, and.

So yeah, that's to me. And this is you know, the abundance.

Guys kind of talk about this, how the Trumpian program is this anti growth very aligned in a certain way, in a certain like ideological way with that de growth Left, and yeah, it's totally politically toxic. So if you are going to sell something like your kids are going to have fewer toys on Christmas Day, which again I think there is some merit to a potential shift in the American social contract, there is a version of this that

All your program is is people are going to be poor.

And so you know, that's why it's thoroughly rejected. I wanted to play this is kind of interesting. Is this guy Sean Ray, and he's the founder of the China Market Research Group. He put on this short video talking about some of the reasons and we've talked about some of this here, but some of the reasons that he feels that China has the upper hand in terms of this trade war, which is definitely something that the Trump administration,

China is no longer buying American beef, They're buying beef from Australia. China is no longer buying oil from the United States, They're now buying oil from Canada. China is no longer buying American soybeans, They're now buying soybeans from Brazil. China is no longer buying Boeing airplanes Shaman Airlines actually just refused to accept a Boeing airplane that had just arrived in China. They're now instead buying air buses from France.

I think those are some solid points.

I don't know if you saw this, Emily, but even on the semiconductor piece. So, Huawei is now testing its newest and most powerful marine for the Wall Street Journal artificial intelligence processor. The company hopes it can replace some of the higher end products of US chip giant Nvidia.

Yeah, and you know, this to me also is sort of a case for what Trump is doing because it's so dire, like the supply chain problems are so bad.

But it's a case against what he's doing because he's doing it in a way that makes so little sense, that's right.

So it's it's on the one hand, an argument about how bad the situation is. The other hand, it's an argument about how bad the attempt to write the ship Like, how bad our attempt to address a.

Bad situation has been. Yeah, Like there's a.

There's a good way to do this, and an important way to do this, and an argument that should be done, and then there's a way to do it that makes the situation worse.

Let's go and put this next piece up on the screen. This is tracking these shipments from China to the US, and we're all just kind of waiting for this to like truly and fully hit. CBS has this report. China exports to US plunge as tariff's hit, leading some experts to warn of product shortages. Shipments of goods from China and US are dropping sharply. The trade war between China and US has escalated, with each nation hiking its import duties.

And look, the large retailers.

Are going to be able to sort of weather the storm and be able to figure it out.

That doesn't mean that there aren't going to be some shortages in the.

Walmarts and home depots and targets and costcos of the world. But the people who are really going to get screwed are small and medium business owners, even from the perspective of how much they have to invest in understanding what

The tariff is changing, even the at the border.

You know, the customs officers who have to calculate these things, they don't know what's going on, so they're not applying the correct rates at times as well. Just up with that is impossible to do as a smaller, medium sized business.

Yeah, and so the Trump administration this is also very interesting. I was talking to someone who works in Congress last night about this. Larry Kudlow pointed out what he was looking through the GDP report that one of the reasons the numbers may not have been as bad as it was as some people thought it might end up being, even though so we could talk about it was the

And machinery investment.

He says it does not spell recession because of that canary in the coal mine, or what could be a canary in the coal mine.

He's making this point.

That Trump and his advisors have been going to the business community and saying the tax bill is going to include one hundred percent rite offs for investment or expenses on business, factory and building that's retroactive to January twentieth. You look at that and you're like, that's kind of an industrial policy in an incentive structure way. In a way, that's like using tax cuts, although they also have their revenue problem in front of them, so that's a different story.

So you kind of see how that stuff will help, but.

It's not enough, and it's not even being packaged by them as industrial policy.

You need to get people back into the labor force in some of these communities.

You need to make sure that these jobs are good, steady work that competes with service sector work. So I mean, if their plan is to pass a big tax cut that includes a corporate tax rate hike to I think bestt wants to take it from twenty one to fifteen percent.

That's the latest news. Again. Could that help with reshoring, Yes, but that is I.

Mean, you're taking a real gamble if you're putting all your eggs in the tax cut basket as your industrial policy.

Well because I mean last time with the tax cut, most of them did like share buybacks, you know, to create some manufacturing renaissance. So and this is the problem when you're trying to, you know, just hope the market does its thing, and you're not taking an affirmative, affirmative action to make sure that capital.

Is doing what you want it to do.

And you know that's his theory is basically you can just sort of like slap some tariffs on and you know, throw a tax cut at them, and they're going to invest in, create product lines and do what you want. But no one's going to be investing anything if we're in a recession like that's just you know, everybody's going to pull back. Everybody's already pulling back and It's important to remember those GDP numbers, which were already really bad.

So, how does that make you feel the Golden Age? Clearly it's the Golden age. I mean you can smoke your.

SAgs, you can get by an AI robot, and you can go to the Dollar General, and you.

Know, there's what's not to love.

I don't understand dollars Actually.

You could probably get thirty at Dollar General now.

Today, yes, but you know in the future by Christmas.

Time that is bleak, bleak.

I thought that was pretty depressing personally, No, thanks for that, good morning. One last piece here, which you know, this is I just thought this was funny. We put this up on the screen. This is Financial Times. You got to be reading the Financial Time. I'm honestly every good left he knows you have to read the Financial Times.

We've got it.

And I'm pretty sure this is the guy who'd pen to report that in the early days of you know, the new tariff regime, people were pointing to of saying like, look, they have a plan and it's this forty chess and here's.

What's going on.

The problem is the report didn't match the reality of what Trump was actually doing. But in any case, they say here that they found his presentation, his comments around tariffs and markets to be quote incoherent or incomplete. One of them said Miren was out of his death and said he got questions and that's when it all fell apart, said one person familiar with the meeting. When you're with

Yeah, well, not sending their best, to paraphrase Donald Trump himself, not sending their best.

Yes, let's get to Elon because this was big news. So the Wall Street Journal yesterday put out this report that Tesla is looking at moving on from Elon Musk, that they are actively and have been actively searching.

For a new CEO.

Let's put this up on the screen, so they say, Tesla board open search for a CEO to succeed Musk.

Let me read you a little bit of this. They say.

About a month ago, with Tesla's stocks sinking and some investors irritated about Musk's white house focus, Tesla's board got serious about looking for his successor. Board members reached out to several executive search firms to work on a formal process for finding Tesla's next chief executive According to people familiar with the discussions, tensions had been mounting at the company's sales and profits were deteriorating rapidly. Musk was spending

It's an absolute lie.

I haven't checked in on Tesla's stock this morning, but last night, after this Wall Street Journal report had come out, it was plummeting even further than it already had been. And you know, it's wouldn't be a surprise like in any ordinary any normal company would look at the string of events of Okay, our CEO is not even here, like he's not even running the company, and his brand is so toxic and specifically toxic to our particular customer base that this is just an utter disaster. But you know,

But in any case, what's their response, so Elon, they're scrambling, by the way to get all of this. As yesterday the journal published this, When was this Crystal was like later at night? I want to say, it was like around the evening, yes, oh okay, well it was upwardted that's today They updated it apparently at seven forty five am.

Probably with response to Elin.

But it was happening in the evening and so Tesla's rambled to get a response together and posted a statement at one I was think it was like one twenty three am, and said earlier today there was a media report erroneously claiming that the Tesla board had contacted recruitment firms to initiate a CEO search at the company.

This is absolutely false, and this.

Was communicated to the media before the report was published. The CEO of Tesla's Elon Musk, and the board is highly confident in his ability to continue executing on the exciting growth plan ahead. Now, what they're narrowly denying here is that the board had contacted recruitment firms to initiate a CEO search.

At the company. You can parse that in different ways.

You could say maybe one or two people on the board, not the board itself, acting as a collective, had flirted with the idea and maybe talk to a couple of people that they know in these business circles.

That's how it is. That you're like out a dinner.

And you're like, hey, would you potentially, you know, be able to help us with a recruitment search at Tesla, and then that person goes to the media. The journal has had the i would say, deepest reporting on Elon Musk. And this is what's really irking musk heads right now is that the journal is the one that had this story because they're you know, already furious with the way

A hole in their reporting.

I mean, it's a denial from a company, but everyone knows that companies will issue narrow, carefully worded denials and situations like this when you have robust sourcing in a major newspaper.

So I started feel like they would have put that in there if they had it, no matter what.

It's not, you know, a super persuasive denial of everything

It just becomes untenable.

And because the relationship between Trump and Musk is so important of both of them, yeah, because for Trump it's I mean, that's the money for the magnification of the Republican Party going forward via America pack And for Musk, well, obviously, this is the president of the United States. He oversees

So you understand why it would be sort of a blow.

Yeah, well, and that is exemplified by the fact that you know, we got Trump to do that, like Tesla sale in the parking lot of the White House and the Pam Bondie is announcing that like, if you harbor ill feeling towards Tesla, you're basically terrorists.

And whatever like it.

Also, though, I mean, it is astonishing because the way that Musk being so cozy with try would hurt their sales to a what has previously been mostly like an affluent liberal California customer base that is so incredibly predictable. And you know, the stock really rose once Trump got elected because everyone's like, oh, well, Elon is secondhand to the king and he's going to be able to get all these works, true, but you still have to be able to sell cars, and not only here but around

But Elon talked.

About that on the investor call, and you know, a lot of Tesla's hopeful growth was in China. China now also with byd has. I mean, they've just out innovated Tesla as well, like their product is better than Tesla or the other ev makers here in America. So there's all source of issues, but the biggest one is Elon himself. So like I said, to get rid of him is

So even the fact that even if it's not.

The whole board, but a few board members are reaching out to these executive search firms or whatever, is really quite something. We could put before up on the screen of the Tesla stock which just shows you the you know, the surge after Trump's elected and then the germantic crash.

He's gained back a little bit, you know.

Like I said, I haven't checked in with it today. The last piece we have here just a sign of his failure here in Washington as well, in the quiet quitting.

As Emily put it, he was at this cabinet meeting.

Yesterday, not a member of the cabinet and not a member of the cabinet, so you know, whatever that he's there to begin with, but he's not even the head of doge according to Trump administration, in court.

But you know, previously at the.

First cabinet meeting, he was standing up, he was holding court. Everyone was doing some of their obsequiousness that they normally direct to Trump, they were doing that with Elon as well. Now he's getting this sort of like, you know, the sort of like pity clap.

It's more like what he's getting from Trump or like the pad like do you want to go to the car?

You know you could, you could stay, but I know you want to get back to working on your cars, don't you.

So let's go ahead and take a listen to B two.

And you know how things are going for Elon with regards to the Trump administration.

But you have been treated unfairly.

But the vast majority of people in this country really respect and appreciate you, and this whole room can say that very strongs are really been a tremendous help.

You opened up a lot of eyes as to what could be done, and we just want to thank you very much. And you know you're invited to stay as long as you want.

At some point, he wants to get back home to his cars at his.

Time, So what were What were the vibes of that for you, Emily?

It feels like a sendoff.

Doesn't that feel like when you know, one member of like the you know, drama club at high school is about to graduate, Like one member of the basketball team is about to graduate. You know, Yeah, you did a great job. You know, you didn't start every game, but you were always there. You had the heart, you had what it took you. You'll always you will always remember you didn't I feel like that.

You were a critical part of this team.

Yeah, you will always be a part of this team. It had those vibes a little bit.

Absolutely.

It's funny you went to the sports thing too, because I was also thinking about you know, when like after one of my kids plays a game and like it's the other bus game, You're like, you did good, Like you did good. You know, look, it's not always going to be your day. It's fine, but.

You were good. But you were good. Yeah, I'm not saying you weren't good. You were good, like great form. Yeah. No, it does feel like that. And Trump at one point said.

This is a learning experience. You know.

Trump at one point said, you know, elin you know, you're invited to stay as long as you want, which is one hundred percent what you say when you're like evicting someone, right, like politely evicting someone, just like a family member's been CouchSurfing for a while and they got them.

It's been literally like CouchSurfing in some federal government office yelling.

So apparently, yeah, and.

They got the hint, right, like this person got the hint.

They realized that, like you're a little tired of, you know, the CouchSurfing, and they're leaving, and you're like, you know, you're you're invited to stay as long as you want.

That was basically how you.

Do it in Wisconsin, right, Yeah, of course, yeah, you can stay forever, but I know you have things you want to do.

You want to get back to your cars, not here.

Yeah, but I mean it's it's also like he's actually not invited to say as long as he wants unless he divests from like to be clear, he's only allowed to stay for one hundred and eighty days based on the special government employee distinction.

So technically is not invited.

Yes, but which, as we've discussed before, you know, they're a stickler for the rules and regulations in this administrative.

Oh you know, one hundred and eighty one days.

Absolutely not unacceptable.

That's the red line. No way, no way Elon is ticking. It felt like a little send off. Yeah.

So anyway, that's what's going on with Elon as best we know. But there were also some comments made at this meeting from Marco Rubio with regard to deportation. So let's get to that. So Marco Rubio saying that they are exploring other countries outside of El Salvador to ship deportees to listic A.

Listen, and I.

Say this unapologetically. We are actively searching for other countries to take people from third countries. So we are active, not just El Salvador. We are working with other countries to say we want to send you some of the most despicable human beings to your countries. We do that as a favor to us, and the further away from America the better, so they can't come back across the border. I'm not apologetic about it.

We are doing that.

If president was elected to keep America safe and to get rid of a bunch of perverts and pedophiles and child rapists out of our country.

So searching for other countries.

You know, no details there about what countries or whether they would also be shipped just to those countries or to prisons as they have been in El Salvador, this you know, place that people are never let it out of and there indefinitely. And it's interesting only because it comes as there's this New New York Times investigation into the deal that the Trump administration made with bu Kelly, who called what does he call himself, like the coolest dictator in.

The world or something like that, dictor the cool deck.

So anyway we could put this is ce five guys, if we could skip ahead to see five and put this up.

On the screen.

So it turns out, you know, they have this sort of contractual relationship where the Trump administration is paying some amount twelve million is one of the dollar amounts I heard floated of money to Bukelly to house these Venezuelans who have been you know, who were summarily deported with no due process whatsoever under the pretense that they were alien enemies and they were the worst of the worst,

But he did agree to take.

In violent criminals, no matter their nationality, for a fee, which would help to subsidize the country's prison system. So because the Trump administration shipped off, the vast majority of the people they shipped down had zero criminal records. According to The New York Times, even Kelly was like, this is a problem. This is not what we agreed to.

On those planes, there were a number of women.

This is an all male facility, and so those women, but Kelly's we're not taking these women, so they sent the women back. In addition, there were also some high level MUS thirteen members that were in our criminal justice system facing charges and punishment that the Kelly wanted back.

Well yeah, I mean, think about that for a second.

This is the invocation of the There's a lot of juicy stuff in this New York Times story, but the invocation of the Alien Enemies Act is predicated on this idea that the Venezuelan government is directing Trende Aragua to invade the United States, which is a very flimsy premise.

It's preposterous.

It's a very flimsy premise that was intentionally concocted by people in the Trump administration to be able to get around the regular channels of due process.

Stephen Miller said.

That openly that it was part of the plan because they know mass deportations with the regular due process. That is the clear implication of what Steven Miller has said, regular deportations. You can't do at the level of QUOTEO mass deportations if you go through those channels without dramatically boosting the immigration judge system, which then can.

Cut and they're cutting the immigration judge system, by the.

Way, there are problems with that because it can become a carrot if you can start hearing cases really quickly. It did become in the Biden administration and incentive form of people to keep trying. But the Trump administration can deal with that pretty easily by remain in Mexico policies. If that is their problem with they could deal with it in other ways. But the idea that the East Coast kingpin of MS thirteen needs to be sent back, that they have charges, that they do a big, splashy

And they didn't just send him to El Salvador.

They literally dropped these charges, this big case that they were touting against him. And that gets to a quote, which by the way, is again a follow up on the drop site reporting, which was way ahead of the story. CNN then had a piece that came out earlier this week as well. This is from Douglas Ferra in The New York Times, an El Salvador expert who between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty two collaborated with the Justice Department

Before they talk in US court.

So I'm reading these leaks from State, which also included that big CNN piece earlier this week. It looks like some of this is probably coming from Boucalley world, and I would take all of the sincerity of that. I would take all of that with a grain of salt.

MS thirteen members.

So now the question becomes, and this has actually always been the question to some extent, to on what level does the Alien Enemies Act allow you to deport people if there's tenuous or if there's very thin evidence of their alleged involvement in this invasion. Right, So Steven Miller thinks that you can just get rid of every foreign national in that area. But if you your intelligence is telling you that this invocation of the Alien Enemies Act eight and of itself is a flimsy is the premise

Achieve that end.

But he's he knows that some of the stuff is going to get hung up in the courts, and his allies and the administration know that that's the point of doing this strategy where you're just like there's actually some quotes in this piece about how he was like don't worry.

Said, don't worry about the law something like that.

Yeah, right, like you have to go fast.

And so they're worried that they're not going to be able to do quote mass deportations. But what they're not worried about is, you know, being accused of like flouting the constitution. They think that the constitution isn't set up to deal with this problem of mass immigration under Biden.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, they just they don't care about the constitution, they don't care about the legality, they don't care about due process. They don't care if they mistakenly send someone there, you know, and know that it's a mistake, they'll just say, like he deserves to be there.

I don't care.

And part of the strategy is this is something we talked about from the beginning of this administration too, is the more horrific and the more cruel the images and the stories that come out, the more they're hoping that people will quote unquote self support, because there isn't there now.

Like he has.

A political program and I don't think he cares whether it's popular or not. He has a thing he wants to do and he does not care what's going to stand in his way of doing that. And I think Trump has outsourced his entire immigration policy to Steven Miller.

You guys talked about him.

Actually believing MS thirteen was literally tattooed on kilmar Garcia's knuckles when it was the most obvious photoshop in history. I think Steven Miller just told him that this is real and he just believes it.

You know.

I think Steven Miller told him that the Supreme Court decision went nine oh their way, even though that is the polar opposite of what happened, and he just believes it. I mean, that's what he seemed to say in the Oval Office. So this has been completely outsourced to Stephen Miller. But you know, it did expose that there's a little bit of a potential pressure point that Chris van Holland and you know the other Democrats who flew down to El Salvador that they were kind of pushing on, which

Glenn has made this point that well, and that's the Kilmra Abrigo Garcia case. They actually could have if they had gotten an agreement from Mexico, for example, they could have deported him at any moment. Basically, they just couldn't deport him to Alsalvador. Based on all this, Miller argues that because of the Alien Enemies Act, they still could, but that's not clear cut, and even conservative attorneys like and Annie McCarthy and Walen have come.

The administration itself argued in court that it was a mistake.

And it parts then they fired that guy from the DJ like they but I.

Mean, there were multiple court filings and the court is that it was a mistake.

Completely agree Stephen Miller would but Stephen Miller comes down and says, like we could do what we want, like get out of here DJ, like even the Trump DOJ Like you guys, you know, why would you ever admit an error. You're harming the project of mass deportation by admitting we can't do this, because this is what we have to do.

We have to be.

Pushing these lines in these boundaries in order to end up with mass deportation. And honestly, like if if we take this in a like seriously, because there is a trunk of the American people that looks at the mass immigration during the Biden administration and.

Talking to some of.

These people, it's so the lives that they live maybe better than what they had in Venezuela.

I mean, one of these migrants was protesting Maduro.

And that's why Republicans have often supported the silent policies that we have just protesting Maduro. They end up having to live these precarious existences in the United States hiding. You know, a Brego Garcia was pulled over for driving radically with an expired license.

I mean, a reason that you try.

To avoid going to the government in some of those like we're doing licenses or whatever, is because you're.

In fear of being deported.

It's not a great existence, even if it's better than Venezuela or El Salvador. And our process right now sucks. It keeps people in these situations for like ten plus years. He'd come into this country, what twenty twelve at Brego Garcia. I think that's and it had just sort of been living in the shadows. And it's not good for anybody.

Yeah, well, they were already the State Department was coming up with plans bringing back because this is not the first time that someone has been mistakenly deported.

Yes, and you just go to deal with it. This is terrible.

I'm sorry, We're going to get you back, and like follow the They were already working on those plans, and then you know, whoever in the Trump administration came over the top and we're like, no, yeah, we made a mistake. We don't care. He's going to stay. And again, this is not just deportation, just deportation. This is you are locked in a prison for life. Yep, your wife, your family, your lawyers, like you have no access to anyone, accept

And there's there are rules against that that we abide by us.

Yeah, sure, you your rendition.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

You cannot ship someone off and then be like, oh, well, you know, the Egyptian government or whoever, they're going to do what they're going to do, and it's not our fault. Like, if you know the conditions that the people are being sent to, then you are still responsible for those conditions.

And then that swung back wildly during the Biden administration, which is why I think Steven Miller like, how often do we hear them claiming.

A mandate, a mandate, a mandate. Well, they're misinterpreting. First of all.

I mean, the question whether if you win, you know, forty nine percent of the vote, you have a mandate is rightly question. But they they're misinterpreting that mandate as something that it isn't. And I don't even know if

To go back to Glenn's point, like it's yeah, Democrats pass the freaking Lincoln Riley Act with Republicans. If you wanted to expedide the system, hire more immigration judges, and have this aggressive approach. I don't support it, but they could have done it. Democrats were willing to vote for basically whatever on immigration at the beginning of this term. You you know, have your budgeting process and you're willing to do all move all sorts of moneys around with

But again it's to generate.

This you know, this spectacle, the ASMR like deportation likes discussed is like incredibly disturbing to be videos that they put out Christino, I'm going down to Seacott. It's all about a spectacle of horror. And you know, so he he has no interest in going through like any sort of approaching lawful process to effectuate this outcome because it wouldn't achieve his aims ultimately, and so that's why he's you know, pursued very specifically him has pursued this this

Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

What did they do to me?

They arrested me. What's the reason? Because I raised my voice and they said no to war, yes to peace. Because I said enough is enough to President Trump and his cabinet, I am not afraid of you.

The judge, in making this decision also made some extraordinary statements which would have huge implications not just for Madowi, but also for many of the other students who've been arrested and detained and are being threatened with deportation for their advocacy for Palestine. Let's go and put this up

Just think about how preposterous that is.

Such conduct is insufficient to support a finding that he is in any way a danger. As we use that term in the context of detention and release. Legal residents not charged with crimes from misconduct are being arrested, threatened with deportation for stating their views on the political issues of the day, Crawford said, citing the Red Scare and McCarthy era a targeting of people.

For their political views.

The wheel of history has come around again. But as before, these times of excess will pass. So, you know, we'll see if this ruling stands. We'll see if there are other judges who make similar decisions. But you know the fact that Madowi at least was able to get this win, and you have one judge, federal judge saying listen, you can't just deport someone because you don't like their opinion on a political issue, is a very significant development here.

The justification for this deportation order via the State Department is very problematic, similar to the Mahmud Khalil situation in that they cite this is a Rubio memo anti Semitism basically, and they say this is from the it's the Immigration and Nationality Act. I think it's in nineteen fifty two, is what Rubio has been citing. And that's what's we were talking about this with Stephen Miller earlier and the

It's such a strange.

Another situation where the administration you would think would have cited that immediately if they would know about it.

Yeah.

That so, I imagine there's more to come from this gunshop owner as this case goes on, but a very strange I just feel like that's a very strange part of the story or subplot in the story, because I guess if this is about anti Semitism to the Ruby Amendment, the point in the Rubio memo, if he said that he killed Jews while he was in Palestine, then I suppose you can you can prove that he's anti Semitic, but even then you have to prove the anti semitism

Yeah, I think so, it's very weird.

Well, and if you listen to him on sixty minutes, like he's very clear about I see the you know, justice for Israelis and Palestinians and freedom for them as being linked and I abhor anti Semitism, like he's been very consistent on that.

I mean, listen, I have no idea.

I haven't seen or heard any thing about this, like gunshop situation. I will say that, Look, even if you say something that is horrible like that, you still shouldn't be able to deport someone just for their speech. I mean that's basically the judge's point is, like, there's no evidence that he is a firebrand. All the evidence is that he's you know, this very like peace loving, like consensus building type. But even if he was, you still can't just deport someone because you don't like what they

It makes there is their justification.

Here is what is the like they don't have whether that justification, i should say, is legitimate. It remains the question. Even if he said that, like that their justification from reporting him, like they would have to find again, like you can try people, you can actually go through another process. But the point is just doing as many things as quickly as possible in order to sort of flood the zone and from there, yeah.

Yeah, and to use this issue as a cudgel, you know, both in their in their war against lefties generally in their war against universities, like this is the issue that they don't care about anti Semitism. They're using this issue as a cudgel to effectuate other Well.

I think, I mean, I think there's a part of the sort of conservative movement that has very much been conditioned that this is the most like, this is the.

Type of the spear on campus issues.

So if you get rid of the alleged anti Semites, then you you've just removed the tip of the spear. And it's I think some people genuinely do believe in this, I think a lot of people don't and it's almost like half and half.

Yeah, I'm referring specifically to Donald Trump.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Donald Trump does not give a shit about anti summing.

I don't think he's super concerned about this, but he knows that again, like Miriam Madelson is and I'm sure Marco Rubio probably is.

So it's that's how it's.

But again, like I think we've talked about this recently, it's turning kind of the online. Some of the online online write people off and some of them it's like, okay, so you've turned off Candace Owens, but I guess she has a big audience.

Yeah, well, we'll get to the Alex Jones, Nick Fuenttez, Yes, that's right.

We have a good coming out.

For our last block.

All right, let's go and get to some of these twenty twenty eight Democratic contenders in the way they're positioning themselves. We have a bunch of Democrats have been making some potential twenty twenty eight moves, so we wanted to make sure and give a little speed run through all of them. With Dave Weigel of Semaphore, who's always out on the campaign trail these folks and talk to these folks and can give us some of the inside knowledge here.

So great to see you, Dave.

Good to be here. Thank you.

So let's start with Pritzker, who is governor of Illinois. Who I mean, it looks like he wants to run.

Right fair to say he was in New Hampshire. I don't think his playing got diverted.

I think he wanted to be in New hampt Indeed, so he said a lot of things that a lot of Democrats were like, Oh, okay, JB, you see what you're bringing to the table. This line in particular caught a lot of attention. So let's go ahead and play that.

Never before in.

My life have I called for mass protests, for mobilization, for disruption.

But I am now these republic cannot build a moment of peace.

They help don't understand that.

We will fight there with every megaphone and microphone that we have. We must have estimate them on the soap box and then punish them at.

The ballance box.

And I did see some Republicans melt down over the hole he's calling for violence because he said they should never know peace, et cetera. But even that I think sort of plays to his benefit because Democrats love to see a Republican sort of like melting down and getting triggered over something that a Democratic candidate says, and them standing up for themselves and not just backing down in the Faceboks this profile too too.

Oh absolutely, And I was at that event in that room. Before he was talking, there was a montage of protests that had happened in New Hampshire on the screen. Maggie Hafsen was talking about the protests. It you could see from them from the kind of the hair of people getting up. It was an older crowd of Democratic donors, but these are the people showing up at Tesla takedown stuff. So he was, first of all, right, right in the

Yeah, and so you've covered him longer than a lot of people paid attention to him. So do you have a sense right now of what lane he thinks he's taking up in potential twenty twenty eight primary.

It's it's so early, and it's so silly to.

Even think about that because we don't know what the competition will be, and that determines kind of what lane people go in. But as of right now, what sense do you have of what he what kind of candidate he thinks he is. He's a billionaire, arguably oligarchic.

I think you asked him that.

I asked him, Yeah, I asked him when I asked him, when Bernie Sanders talks about the oligarchies, he's talking about you, and.

But defied upon the screenwall, Dave's talking. We pulled your answer here, but go ahead, Yeah, yeah.

And he gave an answer, which is that, no, I when he talks people talk about the aligarchy, they're talking about people who were taking over the government giving favors themselves, and that's not me I'm about And I had asked him a separate question about he's very in favor of progressive income taxes where the administration is trying to replace those.

What is?

He's not a Bernie candidate, but he is a progressive candidate.

Interesting, and he also had some criticism by the way, I think, you know, I actually think he should affirmatively come out and say I'm a class trader and can cast himself in the role I mean FDR was, you know, was the prototypical like class trader, and I think he

Yes, he attacked do nothing Democrats, he didn't name them, and if you're reading, if you're reading between the lines, it was hard to say who exactly was talking about, except mostly James Carvel types pundits who have been saying vaguely that the party is seen as too left wing it needs to change somehow without explaining what that means. So it wasn't saying, like Bernie might that this is because of rich donors who were who want the party to move in one direction, or because this is in

Interesting.

Yeah, So let's roll Pete Bododha j Eddge a little bit a clip of his appearance on The Flagrant Podcast. One of the most powerful podcast appearances actually, Donald Trump did in the twenty twenty four cycle was on that show. So let's take a look at at Pete handling that appearance. Pretty well, this is D two.

I want everyday life to be better. That's what they want to you get up in the morning. Yeah, but importantly, like all the controversies are over, what that's like, Like, I want you to be able to get up in the morning, and the first thing you do is you commute to work and by the way if you want EV I want that to be affordable for you, or if you're on public transit, not to get back into the subway situation, but I want you to have good

Want everybody to be able to live.

Yeah, and I think we can deliver that.

Sort of abundance adjacent at that point. So if people are.

Listening to this, they missed that Pete sort of grown in everyman beard, which is kind of interesting. And going on a bro podcast, how did this appearance? Did you get a sense of how Democrats reacted to this appearance? And maybe from your perspective as someone who's covered this, what it says about Boodha Judge's plans for the future.

Possibly that I did hear democrats say more how who else can do this? Not just ready to give the nomination to this guy, but who else can talk like this? Who else can articulate? Take this? Because you mentioned abundance, yea actually in abundance. The first chapter begins like that is a very effective rhetorical tactic to say, imagine your life minute by minute or hour by hour if we get our way.

It's sort of like that name of like you know, the city looking glorious and you know, like this if Pete Booter Jedge gets elected.

Oh yeah, the.

Original Green New Deal pitch was like that. Imagine you wake up and you take cream public transit and then you have the uh. And so that was what I heard, not not jealousy, how do we copy this? But who else can do that? Can Shapiro do that? Can That's how they saw it in terms of the next presidential candidate, in terms of rhetoric and going back to why they

Pope Brothers, what's.

The what's the sound bite? And and that's what he was doing that they think other Democrats should should do. Is how do you actually make this a memorable story that stays in somebody's head and not talking point because they hear a talking point. And even liberation when you think of a concise phrase that probably sounded good in the focus group, the next time you think of, it's being made fun of generally. And that was what their

Yeah, And I mean it's a it's also a sort of subtle rebuke of the Kamala Harris like how safe they were and how fraid she was and the you know, the Joe Rogan not going on there.

Whoever's felt that was whatever.

But she has always been a politician that is very carefully managed and very nervous about doing interviews with people she doesn't know and not knowing how it's going to go. And look, Pete, I'm a well established Pete hater, but I will say I will say he did turn out to be a pretty effective regulator in the Biden administration, and you put him on Fox News, you put him in setting like that, like the man has skills. So I definitely, you know, I think he could. I certainly

He very much tries.

To stay in the lane of like, I'm creating jobs. He ran, you know, coming out of the teacher strike wave against cuts to teacher's pensions and assault on education. And you know, there's a lot of sort of backstory there of how he's his political formation. But I just say, and you've covered him a lot too. He's never impressed

He's one that I feel like has gotten better. And he impressed me.

It was just on Fox News and sparring with the host there, and I thought he was pretty nimble and handled himself pretty well. Let's go ahead and take a listen to Andy.

Basheer in the contrary to build plans. We're going to hear announcements on that this afternoon.

I guess all I'm.

Saying is, isn't it worth kind of giving some of this a try? Since he did win all of the swing states across the country, which I know he points out quite often. But I guess the question is the things that voters were looking for and that got them elected, writing our trade situation, fixing the border. Doesn't it make sense to have at least a grace period for this American president to see if some of this will work.

I believe that Donald Trump isn't president because he talked about trade policies. He's president because he talked about making it easier. This idea that we can reshore immediately when factories take three to five years to build, and even when why not.

Be built, why not begin the process?

Share manufactured? Hight not begin the problem a significant way, And our projects are being paused and they're being stalled because even when you're building that new factory, you do have to import certain goods. So I think you just have facts about how this is hitting the economy, and listen, I'm not trying to root against the president. I'm not trying to do this because I'm a Democratic governor, he's a Republican president. I'm doing it because I can support

So what do you think of his prospects and how he's positioned himself.

Yeah, he is someone you hear you heard a lot of in the Deep conversation. Uh, and he is more cautious. So the important thing that the Peed interview is that it was long and and a lot of Democratic staffers don't let their bosses go on and talk for that much, that much of a conversation because you saw this actually with Tim Wallas yesterday. You give an hour long conversation, five seconds get slipped on Twitter and that's all people talk about. They're worried about that. And by the way, yeah,

Yeah, I think the economy is going to, in a sense, provide his own response. Yeah, it's almost like democratic messaging proof.

Okay, so let's actually put D six up.

This is a voiceover.

You can see Gretchen Whitmer speaking of retail politics, Gretchen Whitmer greeting President Trump as he arrived in Michigan for his rally is one hundred day rally.

And it only got.

More uncomfortable from there because we have this is D six b. Donald Trump basically calling the Democratic governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, to the microphone while he was speaking to a group, a military group on This was Tuesday, so let's rule D six B.

Well, I hadn't planned to speak, but I'm on behalf of all the military men and women who serve our country and serve so honorably, on behalf of the state of Michigan. I am really damn happy we're here to celebrate this recapitalization at Selfridge. It's crucial for the Michigan economy. It's crucial for the men and women here, for our homeland security and our future.

So thank you.

I'm so grateful that this announcements me today, and I appreciate all the work.

Thank you so again.

If you were listening to that, you probably picked up on how awkward it was. Watching it is even more uncomfortable because at one point she as she's saying how thankful she is, she turns to look at Donald Trump as though she's about to say I'm grateful to President Trump, realizes that she should just say I'm grateful this event is happening, and that's what comes out of her mouth.

I'm grateful that this is a thing that's happening.

I'm grateful for the United States of America, Like that's what was going on in her mind.

You can just see the wheels turning.

But Dave Gretchen and Whitmer, I'll also had that incident in the Oval office not too long ago where she was photographed covering her face with a binder, very conspicuously looking like she was intentionally trying to cover her face on this.

So Kentucky is a redder state than Michigan.

This is a very interesting, i think dichotomy or contrast when you're looking at the way Bashir is handling the Trump second Trump administration and Whitmer is handling the second Trump administration.

What do you make of her efforts to walk.

The fine Trump line, especially in the midst of the tariff, up ending the terraf War, up ending Michigan's economy.

It hasn't gone well for her as a perspective presidential candidate in New Hampshire. At this dinner, the Pritzkerer is at this fundraising dinner just talking to people beforehand. People brought that up as the first thing they knew about Whitmer. These democrats, and these are plugged in democrats who have see Whitmer campaign in the state before for other people, and they have an open mind, but that already was

I think.

So she's done the things you would do, which is a pack, she's towd around the country, she wrote a book, but it's not I wouldn't say any any female Democrat looks at the looks at their aftermath and says they won't nominate a woman next time. I do think that that is part of the conversation, part of the conversation democrats had. I heard it when I was at the Fighting Oligarchy rallies with Bernie and AOC, because I was looking to talk to people when I was at the

So the last one we have here on our list is Governor Tim Wallas, of course, was the vice presidential pick, who you know, Republicans absolutely hate this guy. Think he's a total flaw, disaster, terrible choice of the ticket. Democrats, including myself, still have a lot of affection for him, think that he has talent, think that certainly the agenda in Minnesota is something that you know, he should be proud of and something Democrats should have leaned into. More So,

Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

I knew I was on the ticket. I would argue because we did a lot of amazing progressive things in Minnesota that improved people's lives. But I also was on the ticket quite honestly, you know, because I could code talk to white guys watching football fixing their truck during that that I could put them at ease.

I was the.

Permission structure to say, look, you can do this and.

Vote for this.

So what did you make of that clip? And it's important?

Yeah, I hope postishs don't stop being honest because that clip has not played well. He was doing what some politicians do, which is they've read. He's read about what happened in the campaign. He's in repeating back some of what he's heard since then. The word permission structure, term, permission structure, very good poly side term. I use it all the time. You're the usual role for candidates or governors is don't use that jargon.

Say code talk or code talk.

But I think he was responded. It was at Harvard i IOP audience, and he was in that. He was honestly. That's a sign that he's not thinking what's my next step for president? Because he's just very bluntly answering these questions. And I talked to him on some of the one of the town hall stops he did as he's been going these districts and have events, and he's not being

Head at And is it your sense that AOC is building up for a run.

I wouldn't have ever thought that. I always thought that it made more sense for her to run for Senate. Not that I'm not that I'm like giving her advice, but because because what she is doing now is because she's polling well in these very early polls, because people are talking about her, she has the ability to do what Sanders did in two campaigns, which is drive the

It is.

She's very interested in had Democrats being credible and people looking at them as a party that actually fights the super rich, et cetera. So if she sees a way to do that for his presidential campaign, sure, but she's not doing that right now. And that's been been interesting to me because getting into the discourse, change the discourse if you're not Donald Trump is pretty tricky. She can do it, and she hasn't really been doing it right.

Very interesting, Dave, thank you so much. Great to see you.

Thank you.

Yeah, a pleasure.

Mark Andresen made comments on a new edition of The Ben and Mark Show about which particular professions might be best equipped to handle the oncoming the incoming onslaught of job loss from Jenner of artificial intelligence, and you know, Crystal, it's it's pretty convenient what he landed on. So let's take a look at this clip. Let's roll of the first element here.

So the great vcs have a success you know, record of getting i don't know, two out of ten or something in the great companies of the decade, right, and so you know, if it was a science, you could eventually have somebody who just like dials it and he gets eight out of ten. But in in in the real world, it's not like that. Yeah, you know, it's just it's you're you're in the fluke business. And so there's there's this and there's a there's an intangibility to it.

Uh?

You know, you end up being a psychologist half the time. And so like it it is possible. I don't want to be definitive, but like it's possible that that is quite literally timeless. And when you know, when the ais are doing everything else, like that may be one of the last remaining fields that the people are filing.

Crystal is absolutely losing it. We could get this. It's very convenient.

It's very convenient that vcs will be those who emerge unscathed from the onslaught of job blast from AI Crystal. And you again not wrong, right that there is some element of like subjectivity involved in venture capitalism that you can't replace with machines. And it's just there are also a lot of other professions that we think we can replace with machines that actually we probably can't fully replace

See, I think it's the total opposite. Like I think vcs would be one of the easiest things to replace with robots, right right, because the thing is like if you chumans, you know, if you have a relationship with the person.

And by the way, a lot.

Of these vcs, the way they invest is basically like, oh I know this person from another deed, it's very relationship in network case, which makes you inherently very biased in that process.

So I think this is one of the areas.

That is, you know, that is ripe to be taken over by robots who can just like crunch the numbers, what is the business done, and be able to much more effectively decide which ones are likely to succeed in which ones are not.

Well, this is why I think it's funny, because that's generally my perspective on generative AI, Yeah, is that like there are things that can be done without human involvement that you can mostly outsource to these machines.

But I just use the word.

Mostly because I'm pretty sympathetic to the idea, whether it's a VC or journalism that's self interested of course, but you know, all kinds of difference.

There is timeless it's timeless. I don't think you can replace it.

You're replaceable.

I think pretty much everything else you can replace, but not us.

Yeah, that's we did make a I say we.

I did make an image for a group chat of babys and glasses and a tiny suit yesterday. So those are there are some things that they can do that they get right. The machines can do really good work, Crystal. But in all seriousness, I think the human touch is important to way more professions than a lot of people who are super bullish on AI realize. And so I'm actually sympathetic to the point that venture capitalism has a human element that's important, just like I'm sympathetic to most

The generative AI.

I don't think any of these careers should have the many of these careers should actually have a lot of this outsourced without a significant chunk of the human element remaining. I don't even think it's good for efficiency, to be honest, if we define efficiency as also providing for the common good in an efficient way. So it's sort of a funny like two sides of the coin, or you know, it's almost a catch twenty two with Indresin's point there, because I do, like yes, like.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

But thank you for you know, saying that you, as a person who is helping orchestrate this mass transformation of the labor force, will be protected or should be protected, right because you're just.

That smart, because he recognizes his own humanity, even if exactly recognize anyone else's humanity exactly, and how essential that could could be to you know, society, the.

World, et cetera.

Because it's also not like you know, okay, these guys will say out in the open, our goal is to effectively replace all human labor, yep, and we'll talk openly about how it's going to require a complete change of the social contract. And but you know, but they're just forging ahead without actually laying any of the groundwork for this purported massive change and destruction of the requirement for any human labor and upending of the social contract.

Et cetera.

They're just pushing forward with no breaks on whatsoever.

You know.

And by the way, I mean, there is something really very not only anti human, but Naomi Climb makes this makes this case that it's like also anti creation because you are feeding into these AI machines, all of these like you know resources that the world, the planet, the you know, the the beings that live on this planet, not just humans need to be able to thrive in order to create our own replacements.

This sort of like mirror world.

Replacement for all of us, but in any case, not replacement for him, because he is essential and could never be replaced by these machines that are essential work. Yeah, he's the essential worker, you know. I want to I want to actually skip forward to E three because Derek Thompson wrote a piece tracking the employment data for college graduates, and there are some potential signs there that AI is already starting to hit in terms of eliminating the need

So, you know, it's not clear that that's.

What's going on here, but it is very possible that we're already seeing in the data, the way that AI is going to impact the labor force.

Yeah, and the law school we talked about this yesterday. The law school applications being up is quite that's a stark indicator of what people are encountering. And it's graduation month right now, so we're going to get a whole flood of I think anecdotal reports and probably data too about where people are landing in such an uncertain environment. And you know, we remember as millennials how the recession and changed that general like that changed the general completely

Yeah, no doubt about it.

Yeah, he says, today's college graduates are entering an economy that is relatively worse for young college grads than any month on record going back for decades, So even worse than the environment that you know, millennials graduated into the financial crisis.

And when there's uncertainty, and yeah, when there's when there's uncertainty at the level that there is now, you're not adding, right, You're you're sort of risk averse and you're staying with what you have and so it's it's incredibly tough right now. So it was already actually pretty hard based on how the later labor forces changed and based on what people are actually studying in college.

But this is really difficult.

One other piece of this that we just wanted to mention, which is pretty wild. Put the second element here up on the screen. So apparently in California, AI bots are now stealing millions of dollars in federal financial aid. They basically use AI to mass enroll in community colleges and then you know, pocket this like the PELL grant aid, and then you know, and that makes it unavailable for

So shocking, cool, Yeah, it's the future, brave new world.

Yes, indeed, indeed, should we talk about Alex Jones?

Why not your fave?

Let's do it so.

Alex Jones recently in conversation with Nick Fuenttez, who is a Nazi and has been criticizing Fuontez has been like criticizing Trump for a while. So in any case, Alex Jones also waded into some of the waters of like beginning to a little bit timidly criticize some of what Trump's up to.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

You have very high priority fifteen hundred people with a legal right to be here. They're being expedited, their removal is being expedited for no reason other than they criticized the fact that you know, we're supporting this foreign war.

So I think, Oh, here's where I'm at.

Though in general, I see the whole a lot of the populis conservative space spinning half the time on this, and I just I mean, I think it's way more dangerous. Trump saying we're looking to deporting citizens.

To El salbudor.

Now, that's some constitutional and that is really bad.

I agree with that.

And then again, though I don't think that's a real policy that hasn't happened. What is really happened.

They're talking about using the enemy combatana to do it for regular crime.

It's I don't I think that's one of those throwaway comments.

Do you think it's him truing.

I think they're flooding the zone with pooh like ban And said, I don't know if you'd swear on the show, but they're flooding the zone with with with a bunch of nonsense bullshit, so.

Kind of interesting.

It feels to me like there's a little bit of like a shell game going on here with Alex Jones where he is uncomfortable with like the reason Flint has and people aligned with him object to the detentions of Mosan Dowie and others who have been critical at israel Is because they are actual anti Semites. Yeah, and they actually hate Choose and so they end up in the right position of like, we should stand against this and you should be able to criticize Israel, but they do

Yeah, and Alex Jones posted a video last night where it's sort of summarized, so it says in this important breakdown, Alex Jones explains that his criticism of Trump on a few issues come from a place of deep respect and love designed to support Trump and his overall pro human agenda.

And so that's.

Interesting because it's Alex Jones even like taking issue with the style of trump Ism on the Israel stuff. Yeah, that like sort of handholding emoji, Like that's how I'm seeing it with the actual anti Semites and the civil libertarians. And it's not the civil libertarians like actively trying to hold hands with the.

Literal neo Nazis.

It's more than neo Nazis like grabbing the hands of the civil libertarians and being like, look, we're in this together now, and Alex Jones is.

Trying to be like, yeah, no, we're not.

But it's hard because there are serious civil liberty concerns on the tables that I was thinking about this morning. I mean, one of the I think it was it was a huge wake up call for the right where they were holding hands with the civil libertarians in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, when people like.

Carter Page were being unlawfully spied on.

By our intelligence community by the FBI when they didn't take all the steps they needed to secure their FISA warrant, they lied on the fight, all of that stuff. It's like all of that has just been thrown out the window. And like that's something that the Alex Jones universe was furious about, was the FBI fudging the rules and ways they did to spy on Muslims during the Bush administration, the Obama administration. I mean, the it was all out

Him is very interesting.

I Mean, the other dynamic that's playing out here is like there's a reason Alex Jones wants to have Nick Quantaz on a show because Nick Fantas is popular with some portion, probably a significant portion of Alex Jones's audience, Which makes sense because Alex Jones' is conspiracy theorist. That's his whole shit, and the ultimate like timeless conspiracy theory is that the Jews control every Yeah, and so Nick Fuentes is sort of like out conspiracizing.

Is that a word, Alex Jones. Yeah, which is why Jon he's too He's.

Too nervous to actually say, like you can't like stop fixating and saying Juice control everything and just being like an out and out anti Semite yep, because that would be very unpopular with the audience base that he's created and with his brand positioning as like the ultimate conspiracy theorist. So instead he has to couch it in just like, well, I think you're fixating on that a little too much.

Well, so Fuentes is ay, he's Catholic, and Alex Jones, I'll say, as an evangelical, there are a lot of like evangelical Christians who have now after COVID fallen into at least being like Alex Jones curious, if not like big Alex Jones supporters, but Alex Jones curious.

That's also a group of people that is very pro.

Israel, oh yeah, and very adverse to anti Semitism and so from like a very sensitive to claims of anti Semitism, and so I think Alex Jones is in this interesting place where I mean you and I both remember like in the mid auts, Alex Jones was way more popular with people on the left because of a lot of nine to eleven stuff.

He was like in those bass.

Rogan gets to be friends exactly, yeah, yeah, And so he has such a strange coalition of people who follow him. I think he feels pressure, not just in substance, but like actually in being able to maintain the project that

He's you're making when you're making Alex Jones look moderate and reasonable, Well, that's a wild place to be.

I do also think that, like we can talk about whatever Alex Jones's motivations are for this, he seems quite different. Even some of his followers are criticizing him for seeming different in recent.

Tell me more about that, because I can't claim to be like a regular viewer or particularly in touch with his audience.

No, I'm not a really viewer either, but he has been a more regular presence in some conservative circles, like he goes on talker show and I think again, like we can criticize his motivations for this, but I think he definitely was changed by his experience in court with the Sandy.

Hook stuff, and there was a consequence when there was any and even if that consequence is sort of disproportionate, which I'm not even going to start debating, that's definitely Tucker's take on it.

But even if that's true, he seems like, you know, again, maybe he's doing it for the wrong reasons. To paraphrase everyone on The Bachelor, but he seems like he's more careful and cautious his followers, not all of them, but there's like a sub sect. It's like funtest world, which is why he wanted to debate Alex.

Jones truly became president.

Yes, it's finally right, but Flint's world does criticize him for being Ah. I'm sure they call him a Zionist, and I'm sure they say that he's been like co opted by the vast Zionist conspiracy, just like Donald Trump. And I think that's where he feels pressure to debate flint Us and push back and try to put some some guardrails up at least on that. But yeah, I mean Oxtions is in an interesting place right now. Some of his people think he's not hardcore enough anymore. He

And to your point, don't you.

Also think though that because there are.

So much, so many wild conspiracies on the like, it's hard for him to keep up, and not just with Fontes but also like that, you know, all the QAnon stuff and whatever.

Like.

He used to be the only game in town for this kind of content, and now he's got a lot of competitors. Then they're pretty fierce in terms of like the you know, remember back in the campaign they thought that the Democrats made the hurricane, Like, you know, like he used to be really kind of have a corner on that market and now there's a lot of competition in the space.

But a lot of those people still sort of I don't want to say Revere, but a lot of those people still pick up on Alex Jones's cues and follow him and will like, you know, be deferential respectful of Alex Jones is sort of like the figurehead of that movement which a lot of people feel like was vindicated around the time of COVID, And that's one of those things where it's like he has been correct about certain conspiracies and it gives him this power.

The funny thing now is that, like, you know, all the things they said about the World Economic Forum, they want you to like have new things and eat bugs and whatever. It's like now Trump is like, you can only have two dollars, yes.

And Trump is like welcoming like Scott Bessont who comes from Sorels World into the fold. And besson is now the architect, the man who's seen is like the trusted figure of Trump's entire economic policy. So it's a very odd time. The internal politics of this are very odd. The Tucker the recent Tucker interview with Alection is quite interesting because it's Tucker marveling at the fact that Alex

Like pretty pression.

Yeah, they're pretty prescient.

But Tucker basically saying like, you were right about this, and ever since the government has tried to silence you. So this is where the power comes from of being prescient on a couple of different things. So he does have more competition now from the media that he helped democratize.

Right, Like you said, Info Wars.

Really was the only game in town and like some weird even weirder blogs, But now you know, you can say this stuff on x and you can say this stuff on Rumble, so everyone's sort of in the game. It's been democratized to the point where he does have a harder time sort of holding conspiracy worlds together.

This is why I love talking to you about.

Oh, I'm not even that deep, Like you should talk to some of.

My friends, like Sager, my friend.

You should talk to some of that, Like I'll be able to give you a much more granular reading of the.

Internal might need to do that. We should do that.

Usually because I'm not even that deep, people would listen to me and be like okay, yeah, yet, like.

Flint is actually blah blah blah.

I'm like, oh, gosh, I try to stay out of it, but we should get one of them on.

Yeah, I like that. That'll be fun, all right, guys. So that is a show for today. We are we have our Friday show tomorrow. It looks like so baby has not come as of ten twenty four am on Thursday, but I do think Sager is now out for his paternity leave just to be there for his wife and make sure that they are ready to go. So we are wishing him well. So you guys are going to see you know, different hosts. Oh, it's exciting switching Around'll

I'm looking forward to.

So we are going to bring in some sort of like guest outside hosts, but also we'll be you know, you and me and Ryan and we'll be mixing up the hosting duties all around to cover for Soccer while he is on maternity leave, and which is something we're going to continue into the future as well, because that has I think you guys have you know received that really well, Like everybody seems to be enjoying the different dynamics.

Have a great day, guys,