3/12/24: Trump Floats Social Security Cuts, Non Whites Flee Dems, Boeing Whistleblower Dead, Biden Memory Transcript Revealed, US Intel Says Bibi Gov Collapsing, Pope Smeared As Putin Puppet, Bill Maher Dream Ticket Biden Haley, Pentagon Says No UFO Evidence, Haiti PM Resigns Amid Gang Uprising - podcast episode cover

3/12/24: Trump Floats Social Security Cuts, Non Whites Flee Dems, Boeing Whistleblower Dead, Biden Memory Transcript Revealed, US Intel Says Bibi Gov Collapsing, Pope Smeared As Putin Puppet, Bill Maher Dream Ticket Biden Haley, Pentagon Says No UFO Evidence, Haiti PM Resigns Amid Gang Uprising

Mar 12, 20242 hr 42 min
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Episode description

Krystal and Saagar discuss Trump floating social security cuts, non-whites flee Democrats, Boeing whistleblower found dead, Biden transcript released showing memory issues, US intel says Bibi gov near collapse, Ukrainians smear Pope as Putin puppet, Bill Maher says dream ticket Biden Haley, Pentagon says no evidence for UFOs, Haiti PM resigns amid gang uprising.

 

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election.

Speaker 2

We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have today, Crystal?

Speaker 1

Indeed, we do many interesting developments to talk to you this morning. So Trump. Yesterday while we were doing our show, he was giving an interview to CNBC's squawk Box and floated potential cuts to social Security. We'll talk to you about that. We've also have a Boeing whistleblower who was found dead. A lot of questions there as Boeing is facing increasing scrutiny over many failures. The US just dropped a thread assessment indicating that perhaps BB Netna, whose coalition

could fall apart. What is behind that? BB also giving big interview over at Fox News loves that American English language media apparently new questions about the failures of the West in terms of Ukraine. Some really interesting stuff there we want to break down for you. We're also taking a look at Bill Maher revealing his dream ticket. Guys are going to love this one. Cyber say. You'll look at a new UFO report and what it reveals and

what it does not reveal. Jake Johnston is an expert on Katie and he's going to join us to talk about what is unfolding there. So a lot to get to you this morning.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'm really excited. So a couple of things. First of all, thank you everybody who continues to subscribe. We have a discount that remains there that you can go ahead and help us out. We love doing the live stream and we're going to continue special election coverage like that. If you want to participate, especially in the exclusive content, that's the place to be. Breakingpoints dot Com second Spotify video. So we have had tremendous problems, not on our end,

but actually there are various server problems. What we've effectively come back to is that in order to release the show on time, it will be available eleven AM or as early as it's ready for YouTube unfortunately again completely out of our control. Spotify, the servers and all of that are again out of our control. They are going to take about an hour or so to process. So for those of you who are asking why Spotify video is not immediately available when we released the show, it

is our desire, but technologically not possible right now. Working on the best possible solution. We'll get it to you guys soon, but we wanted to be sure all of our premium members had that update.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so if you guys, if it's important to you to get the show as soon as possible, your premium YouTube link is the best way to go. Spotify is just going to take a little longer because it just apparently takes a little longer. So there you go. Just wanted to tell you that we are focused on it. There's not a lot we can do.

Speaker 2

There you go.

Speaker 1

All right, Let's go and get to this interview that Trump gave to CNBC yesterday. A lot of interesting moments, but this one probably was the number one issue that caught people's attention. Trump floating the possibility of cuts to social Security.

Speaker 3

Let's take a listen to that one thing that I think that at least, the perception is that there's not a whole lot of difference between what you think we should do with entitlements or non discretionary spending and what President Biden is proposing. It's almost the third rail of politics. And we've got what a thirty three thirty four trillion dollar total debt built up, and very little we can do in terms of cutting spending. Discretionary is not going

to help. Have you changed your outlook on how to handle entitlements, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid? It seems like something has to be done or else we're going to be stuck at one hundred and twenty percent of debt to GDP forever.

Speaker 4

So first of all, there is a lot you can do in terms of entitlements, in terms of cutting and in terms of also the theft and the bad management of entitlements. Tremendous bad management of entitlements. This tremendous amounts of things and numbers of things you can do. So I don't necessarily agree with the statement. I know that they're going to end up weakening social security because the country is weak.

Speaker 1

God to end up weakening security because the country is week. So anyway you heard there. At the beginning, he says, there are many things we could do, you know, talking about cutting Then he goes on to talk about waste for auden abuse. So his campaign immediately recognized this was a bit of an issue, so put this up on the screen. They sought to walk it back and clarify his stance, claiming that what he was really talking about was that cutting waste, he wasn't talking about cutting benefits.

Of course, the Biden Harris team immediately jumped on it and sent out this tweet, Trump quote, there is a lot you can do in terms of cutting soci security and medicare. What did you make of all of this, Soger, Yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean it's an own goal by Trump because one of the most powerful things that he did in twenty sixteen was take the opposite view of everybody else on the stage on Entitlement's actually then one of the main I would say, changes that he brought to the mainstream, especially seeing for some Republican politicians embrace it since then. So I thought it was a big problem for him.

I mean, this is a like he just talks, and it's clear too that people have been inside of his ear, and I think that's the biggest problem, and this was something we saw over and over again in the Trump administration is despike the rhetoric and frankly what I actually probably believe that Trump thinks himself. He still surrounded himself with the likes of Stephen Moore and Larry Kudlow, who's now on Fox and Fox Business, I believe, and he

has his own show. There's an entire think tank here like America First Principles, which is staffed of all of his former people. Very likely many of them will be going into the next administration headed by the former Rick Perry person. I mean, we know what these people believe. So this to me is about the waters that he's swimming in and the fact that he would you know, he's a politically astute man, so a slip up like this,

I was. I thought it was a big mistake. Yeah, it was a big mistake on his part.

Speaker 1

I was frankly surprised. I guess it's a bit of a reminder to me of how stupid he can be and how much he can shoot himself in the foot. You know, things are not static, and the fact that he walked it back doesn't really make a difference because the Biden team has their soot. Now they have their talking point. They can go out, Hey, Trump said he wants to cut social security in Medicare. So we're gonna

believe you know those expression or you're lying eyes whatever. Anyway, they've got the sot in the clip that they want for the ads. They can roll this out and claim that he wants to cut social security in Medicare. And I don't think it's crazy to think that he would just given a Sager was saying the type of staffers that come in, the type of operation that is here in DC, the type of instincts I mean Republicans. This has been something they've been seeking for a very long time.

So I thought that was That was a really interesting and I think significant moment given how important those programs are to so many Americans. There was another moment that may be more personally significant to Donald Trump, which is that he cannot seem to shut up about e Gen Carrol. He's already been hit with multi tens of millions of dollars in terms of Deaf Nation suit against her, and yet he still had more things to say about her in this interview. Unbidden listigalisms.

Speaker 3

People sometimes wonder you know how to prioritize, and you just keep king, Well.

Speaker 4

The legal issues aren't, Joe. The legal issues aren't legal issues, they're Biden issues. Biden put Fanny, beautiful Fanny, who's turned out to be now a corrupt district attorney. But in my opinion, they're almost all corrupt. All of the stuff that you see is weaponized government. The DA in New York is being run by the DOJ. They put their top person into the DA's office. All of this stuff, including the mts Bergdorf Goodman, a person I never I never met. I have no idea who she is except

one thing I got sued. From that point on, I said, wow, that's crazy what this is. I got charged, I was given a false accusation and had a host a ninety one million dollar bonds and a false accusation. People aren't moving into New York because of the kind of crap they're pulling on me.

Speaker 1

So he you know, goes on there. About Egan Carroll, her legal team says they continue to monitor his statements because he's already had two defamation judgments.

Speaker 2

Goes gast him in ninety one billion dollars bond against him. This is going to cost him some serious money between that and the what is it, the business trial, the fraud trial that happened, the civil fraud trilogy, and look, you may think they're illegitimate, but like he's got to pay no matter what state of New York. Apparently he's already appealed the court. This is already leading to a

liquidity crisis within him. Another thing I'm not sure if he saw is that the RNC actually defeated a measure which said that their specific campaign cash can be used for Donald Trump's legal expenses. So it is officially now open the possibility, on top of a new cleaning of the house currently happening over at the RNC, that's some of the money that actually be raised by the party

could then be used for overall legal expenditure. So I think it was a very specific reason why Trump and his team went very, very hard to make sure that the Haley Barber kind of amendment inside the RNC was defeated. And this is exactly why, because politically, I think, I mean,

at a certain point, I'm curious what you think. Personally obviously he shut up, but politically, like you know, every time he attacks the legal system and tarnishes or like goes after the people who are coming against him, it does build him up into sort of a martyr. So he isn't a bit of an impossible situation.

Speaker 1

A martyr with his base which he's already won.

Speaker 2

Right, So what.

Speaker 1

Does that really benefit him? I mean, to be honest with you, I think, both politically and obviously from a legal perspective, he should probably shut up about Egene Carroll because there was not that much media coverage of it.

The more that it's in front of people that a jury found it credible that she was actually raped, in that he had to pay these tremendous amounts because of that finding, you know, the the more that sinks in for the pub is kind of a streisand effect of a case that was on the back burder because there were so many other criminal cases and this was a civil suit, so it got a little bit less media

fanfare around it. So no, I don't think it's good for him to continue to bring up Egen Carroll and remind people of the specifics of this case and what it was ultimately all about. One other interesting moment from this interview something we touched on yesterday. So back when Trump was in office, he seemed amenable to a potential TikTok ban. Obviously didn't actually get it any changes through, but he seemed amenable to it. Now he seems to

have switched his position. He got asked about that with the NBC. Let's take a listen to how he explained it.

Speaker 4

You guys decide you make that decision, because it's a tough decision to make. Frankly, there are a lot of people on TikTok that love it. There are a lot of young kids on TikTok who who will go crazy without it. There are a lot of users. There's a lot of good and there's a lot of bad with TikTok. But the thing I don't like is that without TikTok you can make Facebook bigger, and I consider Facebook to be an enemy of the people along with a lot of the media.

Speaker 5

Mister Perry, is TikTok.

Speaker 6

But do you believe that TikTok is a national security thread or not? Because if it is, and I believe that your the Emergency Powers Order that you had put in place at the time suggested that it was, was that not true.

Speaker 4

I do believe that. I do believe it, and we have to very much go into privacy and make sure that we are protecting the American people's privacy and data rights. And I agree, but you know, we also have that problem with others. You have that problem with Facebook and lots of other companies too. I mean, they get the information, they get plenty of information, and they deal with China and they'll do whatever China wants.

Speaker 1

So there he is trying to clean this ut talking about I mean, I think basically he realized that this was a total political dud because so many people use TikTok and you know, to take away from them would be a disaster. And I do think that the personal like vendetta against Mark Zuckerberg, I think lose large as well.

Speaker 2

I was talking with some friends, and I believe that this is one of the biggest and probably possibly most impactful elements outside of the election, of stop the Steal, because a huge basically, the high IQ version of stop the Steel is no, no, no, the you know, bamboo ballots and all that stuff didn't happen. It was vote by mail, and vote by mail was because of Zuckerbucks.

Speaker 1

I don't even know what the hell is.

Speaker 2

It all goes back to filthrapic donations by the Zuckerberg Priscilla Chand Foundation or whatever Priscilla Zuckerberg Foundation the gave to organizations that were putting out the vote and the democratic thing tanks. The Time magazine article is also a very very critical part of the high Iqot stop the Steel thesis. For those who don't know, it's basically a story about how democratic billionaire spent a lot of money trying to bring the election for Biben.

Speaker 1

Oh, I mean politics. It's in America, guy, I'm.

Speaker 2

Saying, it's not like I does it bother me? Yeah, it's not illegal, it's not even honestly nefarious because they openly admit it in their five oh one c threes. And by the way, if you want to do something about that, there's this thing called Citizens United that we could all overturn change and we can take politics spending out of politics. But you know, do you really want to do that or do you also want your bucks, you know.

Speaker 1

Your billionaires to side.

Speaker 2

Let's all just be really honest about what happened. It is true that the forces of capital and culture definitely were against Trump, by for the most part in the twenty twenty election. Okay, but a significant amount a significant amount specifically of technology, which again comes back to this.

This has now been retconned into this major thing about how it's Zuckerberg, specifically the zuck Bucks which drove out the vote, and that goes to like a Facebook thesis about voting, which has now spun into hating Facebook more than they hate TikTok.

Speaker 1

And I do significantly. Facebook is such a bastion for conservatives, Like conservative content does extraordinarily well on Facebook. So that's part of what is amusing.

Speaker 2

It's not none of this is coherent, Like it has to do money, and it has to do with like this general like you know, opposition to Google and to Facebook, which you know, I means they're not wrong, like people on the heads of those companies are democrats and all of that. But again, like it's about a much bigger structural thing if you actually want to dig into it, which most of these people don't. I think that genuinely

is the major impetus behind this. Trump himself hates Zuckerberg with a passion that is like genuinely difficult to describe. As a result of this and a lot of this traces back to Molly Hemingway and her book, who wrote a whole thing about how big tech stole the election. So this is the thesis. It's been very very mainstream now at this point. If people are interested and want to go and like, look at the genesis, and I do think that the TikTok stuff is a result of that.

Not to mention, Trump very recently made peace with the Club for Growth, the Club for Growth who he had a bit of a spat with him in twenty twenty two. They're cool now. The major major backer of Club for Growth, of jeff yass the guy who owns a twenty one billion dollar steak inside of by Dance, recently hired Kelly and Conway. He's been spending a lot of time down

at mar A Lago. So if you combined personal corruption, hiring people around him, political convenience, and target because TikTok Band's main beneficiary would be Facebook and or Google, then it's like the perfect storm for Trump to reverse face and let's be on. I mean, this is a man who has no problem just like flip flopping on a dime. He has no shame and you know, in many respects,

this is his fault. Like back in twenty nineteen he tried to do it, he was so incompetent that it wasn't able to actually get done, and they didn't follow through. And now you know, he is in a situation where Biden or at least whatever this House bill is trying to do the exact same thing Trump did, but then he can't. He's opposing it because it's Biden, and now there's all these other conditions attach.

Speaker 1

Do you think that his position changes the Republican party orientation towards TikTok because obviously they take a lot of cues from No.

Speaker 2

Actually, there is a lot more anti TikTok sentiment as I understand it in the House. But that said, as I said yesterday, I think this bill will pass the House. I do not think it will pass the Senate. The Senate has, first of all, I mean, you know, structurally crystal like a single senator can hold something up, whereas a single House member cannot. Rand Paul is already basically against the bill for a lot of the libertarian reasons

that we discussed. There's enough Democrats also, who I don't think would be on the record who want to sign something like this, and then there's all these procedural ways you can kill something because they also have all their own TikTok bills and they have all these other considerations they would do. So I read this analysis too from a lot of the Capitol woll watch this morning. Most people don't think the sing is a chance to hell

in the Senate. Okay, I don't think this will be a major problem, all right.

Speaker 1

At the same time, there's some fascinating new analysis that we wanted to dig into for you about the way that non white voters are basically voting more like white people. There is a racial realignment that is occurring that is showing up increasingly frequently in the polls, which a great Financial Times calumn with a bunch of associated charts that really broke this down and it was very interesting. Put this up on the screen, this first piece, and keep

this up for a minute. So this tracks that racial realignment, as I said, with non white voters, especially non college non white voters, shifting away from Democrats and toward Republicans. So you can see that blue line is the Democratic share of those voters over time, and the red line is the Republican share of those voters over time. One thing Zaccer that I noted about this particular chart is you actually had some of this realignment occurring during the

Bush years. There was a trend towards closing that gap

that ended and reversed under Obama. I think partly, you know, because he was the first black president, and I do think that that forestalled something that was almost an inevitability that as the memories of the Civil Rights era faded, that younger black and brown voters would vote more in line with what their actual political preferences are, meaning that previously you had a lot of conservative Black and Latino voters who were nonetheless voting Democratic even though the party

was at odds with some of their especially socially cultural conservative positions. And now with those memories of the Civil Rights era fading, they are beginning to vote more in line with what their actual political views and ideology, especially again on culture, really reflects well.

Speaker 2

I mean, the next graft guys, if we could please put that up on the screen, really reflects what you're talking about. So, for example, and this has been I think the biggest story I've been trying to hammer this home now for years. White college educated voters are the ones who are swinging most towards Democrats. People who are

boomers sixty five plus also increasing. And just so everybody knows, this is not necessarily a bad thing for the Democratic Party because boomers and white college educated people they love to vote. Now, white non college educated slightly, moving Republican Asian Americans slightly. Then you look at the overall age groups, there's been major swings. The biggest swings amongst the eighteen to twenty nine demographic, amongst Hispanics and specifically amongst Black Americans.

The Black American swing away from Democrats is some net minus twenty five percent. Again, I do not want to overstate this, but amongst younger blacks specifically and men as well, we are seeing increasing less identification with the Democratic Party. Now will this will these people vote? Maybe? Statistically probably not. Will this have a lasting impact on our politics? Yeah? I think so. And the reason why is because increasing

non party identification is now really the mainstream crystal. We saw this previously, where both the Democratic and Republican identification are near all time lows. Independent is actually nearly double the individual party identification for both Democrats and for Republicans.

So a lot of these black voters, Hispanic voters. I wouldn't call them Republicans per se in terms of a vote read no matter what, or vote blue no matter who contexts, but I would say that they're up for grabs in a way that they have not been in a generation since the nineteen sixty four era, which really, you know, the whole Southern strategy and all that completely changed the US electoral map, and I think we're in the midst of that. Florida becoming a red state is

a sign. Ohio becoming a red state is a sign, Georgia becoming a blue state, Arizona becoming or at least a purple state. Arizona, like our battleground maps from twenty years ago, are totally different from the way that we you and I are going to be watching this election in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that is true. But the next week went up on the screen because this was really interesting to me. This is something I hadn't really thought of. But this chart. The headline here says, we're used to the idea that young people lean more towards Democrats than the old, but the opposite is actually true of black Americans. The younger you are, if you are a black, black American, the less likely likely you are to identify with the Democratic Party.

Now you'll notice that trend line for Republicans. It's sin sed up a little bit among young people. But it's more like you're saying, Sager, they're not switching from Democrat to Republican. It's more that they're less of these die hard, partisan, committed Democrats and more likely to be independents. And there is somewhat of an uptick among Republican support, although based

on this chart it is relatively minimal. And you know, I have to say, like, obviously I'm no fan of the Republican Party, but I think it's I think it is a healthy thing for Democrats to reckon with the fact that they cannot take any demographic group of their base for granted, because the minute that you know, you feel like, oh, well, they're just going to be with us. It really doesn't matter what, you know, what we do. The minute that that group is going to get absolutely

none of their wishes and priorities met. So in that way, I actually think it's very healthy that you have this reassessment of the relationship with the Democratic Party, and it's more of like, Okay, well, what have you done for me lately?

Speaker 2

And that's what I hope and I wish the next one please. This, in my opinion, is like one of the most impactful graphs that you're ever going to see on American politics for those who are just listening. It says that the income divide in US politics is almost closed,

and the richest now favorite Democrats over Republicans. It shows how the poorest third of Americans, spiking in the year nineteen eighty, which makes sense by a near plus twenty five percent margin, preferred Democrats, while the richest third, at again a near twenty percent margin, supported Republicans. Since then,

the gap has roughly begun to narrow. It slightly went back to where things were in the Bush era, but from Obama really onwards, there has been a major swing of white college educated Republicans, who of course are going or sorry, white college educated people who are of course going to disproportionately make up the richest third of Americans swing in their Democratic preference. A lot of this is culture, but a lot of this is four year college degree.

So while we can look at this in income, I really think it comes back to education, education, education, the poorest third of Americans increasingly becoming much more Republican over time. Let's be clear, they still do not prefer the Republicans

on net when. Part of this is why I still think that Democratic coalition is very strong, is not only do they have a net preference amongst the poorest third, but now they have all of these rich people who love to vote, and they have all of their interests. You know that the Republican Party used to be very reliably you know, have them come out to the ballot box, while the middle third, middle class slightly more Republican, but still net fifty to fifty. And this comes back to

a big problem in the Republican Party. I mean, people want to roll the tape and kind of look at what I would used to say back four or five years ago. I'd be like, look, inevitably, the Republican Party like they have to service these new working class voters. But I don't think it's true. I do think that culture is frankly enough, you know, to get you to net fifty, which if you can have billionaire donors and you can have white working classical vote for you, why

wouldn't you do that. So, I mean politically, the current strategy, the obsession amongst Republican elites Crystal is we got to win back these suburban voters. It's not how do we service and further, a lot of these new poorer Americans who support us change our views maybe on cutting entitlements or unions or i mean minimum wage, all these other healthcare. They're all sorts of different issues. But this is kind

of the trap. Now if a smart man would say that, they would adopt those and they would kind of accelerate that trend and make the richest people in the country democrats, so that you have the cultures, you know, you have the cultural capital and capital actual capital together and then you can use like a populist revolution against them. But that's not really what's happening. I mean, we talk a lot about here. It's class de alignment more than anything.

And I also think gender plays a huge role because John Burne Murdock, the guy who wrote this, he didn't put this in here, but he wrote a previous colum which I did a monologue here. Huge portions of what we're discussing. Amongst those black and Hispanic numbers, it's almost all men, specifically black men. Like if you break out the black men and Hispanic men, we're talking about like net forty nine, net fifty and actual ties in some

of those groups. So it's gender, a lot of it is income, and most of it comes down to socio cultural values. A lot of it is not really economic at this point.

Speaker 1

Well yeah, and that makes sense because look, the parties do have differences on economics, there's no doubt about. I mean, we were just showing Trump, you know, floating cuts to entitlements. This is a long time Republican project. I think Democrats, even though they in the past, not very recent you know, quite recent pass under Obama Biden, they were also open to these cuts. At this point, they're pretty locked in.

They're not going to cut social security and medicare unlikely to improve social security and Medicare, but they have really closed the door on cuts anytime soon.

Speaker 6

You know.

Speaker 1

You see this in the little things that the Biden administration has done, the little cut, you know, the little cuts to prescription drug prices, the going after junk fees. You see it significantly in terms of labor and anti trust in particular. So I don't want to minimize our race, that there are real differences between the parties, but we are also in an era where both parties are fully

locked into the neoliberal economic paradigm. So in that way, yes there are differences between them, those differences matter, they're significant, but the overall economic paradigm is the same, and so it's not like you have two competing economic visions, which in another time period, during the New Deal era, you did have two competing economic visions, and that's when you had you know, significant class based interest represented within the

Democratic Party. So now many of the battles are around sure, and it's also, as we've talked about before soccer, in an era when you know, people have little faith that either political party is going to be able to significantly deliver for them from a material perspective, the thing that it then makes sense for them to vote on is like who's with me, you know, who's with my cultural tribe.

And so that's why you see not a class realignment, which would indicate that you know, working class people were all shifting towards one party, but a class de alignment, meaning that your income status is not really predictive anymore of which party you're going to affiliate. With because you know, it's more about those cultural interests than it is about

those class or economic interests. I think that's a terrible state of affairs in terms of our politics, but I do think that's a reality of where we are and where we continue to have.

Speaker 2

I've been there for you know, we have been here before. I like to think about history and kind of think

about how this was reolved previously. So I think the most analogous political era to where we are right now, it's called the Age of Acrimony, which was the eighteen seventies, the post reconstruction Rutherford B. Hayes, like the Bargain up until post Gilded Age, in the progressive era, where at that time, whether you were rich or poor in the South, you were voting for the Democrats because you hated black

people and you wanted to preserve Jim Crow. And whether you were rich or poor in the North, you were voting Republican because you hated the South and your ancestors or your father or whatever fought against them in the Civil War. And yeah, you know, it turns out that word aligned ourselves with the Vanderbilts, the Wideners, and all these other rich people. But so be it. We got to resolve this question. Now, what a lot of people forget is we had some of the highest voting rates

in the entire country at that time. And the reason why is people really hated each other. I mean the South they hated the North, and the North they hated him right back. And they wanted to preserve at least some in Massachusetts and others, preserved rights for blacks and others. And there was also big questions around capital, which the South hated because they didn't have any and the infrastructure. But the way that we resolved that was the progressive

era with Teddy Rose and with Woodrow Wilson. The problem is we had to wait for a genius like Teddy Roosevelt to really come in and to completely flip the Republican coalition and lawmaking on their side. And he had to use his own personal will to actually change some of those questions. But he brought in a ton of new voters, and then Woodrow Wilson readopts this progressivism and

actually changes the relationship of government to the people. But you know, don't get me wrong, it takes a long time. I mean, the era I just talked about was some forty years of genuine insanity in the US, and something we'll talk about later in the show is called the the Peter Turchin End of America thing. But what he really points to is that the Gilded Age is still the most analogous period to where we are right now. And I have a personal fascination, you know, with that

time period. But more and more I think about it, I can't help but see not only the income parallels, but the haughtiness and the arrogance of the American elite at that time is exactly like it is today. It's the same. And it took a First World War to destroy them. I mean, it took a long and you know, the horrible and bloody war to actually change that consensus.

Speaker 1

Yeah. The last thing that I'll say about these charts that I think everyone should remember is that we can have these assumptions and politics that partisan identification and certain trends are just like immutable, like they are what they are and it's just always going to be that way, which is such a crazy way to think about politics when you consider, like it wasn't very long ago, West Virginia was a locked in democratic state, right and Colorado

was like leaned Republican and was definitely up for grabs. Georgia was hard right, hard read. No Democrats diod a chance, although if you go back a little bit further, Republicans didn't stand a chance. So these things can't be taken for granted as just like you know that this trend is what it is and it's never going to change, or that black voters are always got one hundred percent identified with the Democratic Party and going to be locked in.

Things change, and they shift, and people are dynamic, they change their minds, and you know, different generations have different approaches to things. So if we could actually end by putting that first chart a five back on the screen, because there's one last thing I wanted to note about that first chart. So a lot of the realignment racial realignment that you see reflected in this chart where Republicans almost close the gap, a lot of that is based

on twenty twenty four polling. So a lot of it, see the very last piece where they really come together. You see the trends prior to that, but a lot of it where they really come together is based on polls, not actual votes. And so that's going to be one of the big stories of this election cycle is whether or not this chart and the way it looks here comes anything close to reality, or whether Democrats are able

to stem the tide a bit. And I think the difference in that is, you know, the difference of who was going to be the next part of the United States right there?

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, you you were absolutely right the big I mean the big flashing red sign. And this is funny because I was tweeting about this a little bit yesterday. I had a couple of Democrats that I was chatting with and they're like, hey, you can take all these you know, non voters that you want. These people is like, yeah, they may like you, they may have Instagram reels, but they hate Democrats. They're really going to come out to vote because our new white people, our rich white people.

Those people love voting more than anything else and nothing gets them as jazzed up as a planned parenthood sticker on the back of their car. And I mean, I can make fun of them, but it's true. They vote, They vote their interests, and they organize. They have a lot of money, they have a lot of cultural capitals. So I wouldn't bet against them either. I mean, those you know in a certain sense, like you know, don't don't screw with suburban white women, like they will come out.

They will come out to vote more than anybody else. Let's move on to the next part here. This is about Boeing. Been wanting to cover this story for quite some time, and then some shocking, shocking news broke yesterday. Let's put this up there on the screen. A Boeing whistle blower was actually found dead here in the United States in what is being claimed is an apparent suicide. John Barnett. He had previously worked for Boeing for thirty

two years. He retired in twenty seventeen and since then has spent his life being a whistleblower against the Boeing corporation. In fact, in the days before his death, he was giving evidence in this lawsuit against the company. He was

actually found dead in Charleston. The real thing that mister Barnett had been whistleblowing about is that he previously worked as a seven eighty seven Dreamliner quality manager at the North Charleston plant, and he had specifically told BBC and other outlets that under pressure, workers had been deliberately fitting substandard parts to aircraft on the production line, and he also said he had uncovered serious problems with their oxygen systems,

meaning that only one in four breathing mass would not work in an emergency. So soon after then starting work at that South Carolina company, became very concerned, eventually concerned enough to leave and to cooperate with law enforcement, with federal whistleblowers. He was an integral part actually of the FAS examination back in twenty nineteen of the problems that were happening over at Boeing, and was giving testimony in their most recent investigation into what the hell happened with

Alaska Airlines. In the days before his death, he actually gave an interview to TMZ with some pretty shocking claims. Let's take a listen.

Speaker 7

One, this is not a seven three seven problem. It's a bowling problem. And I know the FA's going in and they've done due diligence and inspections to assure that the door plugs of the seven three seven are installed properly and the fasteners.

Speaker 8

And door properly.

Speaker 7

But my concern is what's the rest of the airplane, what's the rest of condition of the airplane? And the reason my concern for that is back in twenty twelve, Boeing started removing inspection operations off there jobs, so it left the mechanics to buy off their own work. So what we're seeing with the door plug blowout is what I've seen with the rest of the airplane, as far as jobs not being completed properly, inspection of steps being removed,

issues being ignored. My concerns are with the seven three seven and the seven eight seven because those programs have really embraced the theory that quality is overhead and non value added. Well, I'd taken a team of four inspectors to Spirit Aerosystems to inspect the forty one section before they sent it to Charleston, and we found three hundred defects.

Some of them were significant that needed engineering intervention. When I returned to Charleston, my senior manager told me we had found too many defects and he was going to take the next trip. So the next trip he went on, he took two of mine and when they got back they were given accolades for only finding fifty defects. So I pulled that inspector's side.

Speaker 4

That's a good.

Speaker 7

Spirit really clean up their act that quick. That don't sound right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, they certainly didn't. And in fact, just yesterday, Crystal, there was a new report from the FAA that they caught Spirit Aerosystems Mechanics using liquid don dish soap as lubricant for that seven thirty seven Max door seal instead

of you know, the properts livert lit to use. That's how they're cutting costs over there in Boeing, and that's why, I mean, there's been a lot of suspicion around mister Barnett's death because you can see he was pulling no punches and this isn't this is potentially a catastrophic event for Bowing. Bowing his most important aviation company in the United States, arguably in all of the West, huge military supply contractor, et cetera. They are now facing a Justice

Department investigation, criminal investigation in this matter. And you know, Alaska really took every It took the I think of everybody's eyes on what's going on with this company and how deep the rot really goes inside.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's right. There's also news this morning that a six week audit by the FAA of Boeing's production of the seven thirty seven max Jet found dozens of problems throughout the manufacturing process, according to a slide presentation that The New York Times was able to review. They initiated

the examination after that door panel flew off. The agency announced the audit had found multiple instances in which Boeing and the supplier Spirit Aerosystems failed to comply with quality control requirements, including the company had failed thirty three of eighty nine audits during that examination conducted by the FAA.

And just to speak to you, the claims that this whistleblower was in the middle of making when he was found dead in his vehicle in a parking lot, some of these claims had really been backed up by evidence, according to the BBC. Boeing of course denied all his assertions. We should put that out there. But in twenty seven they did a review by the FAA and it did uphold some of his concerns. It established the location of at least fifty three non conforming parts in the factory

was unknown and were considered lost. Boeing was ordered to take remedial action. That's relevant because he had said that they were pulling parts out of the scrap heap that had been rejected as non conforming and using them to save time and cut costs, etc. So the fact that these non conforming parts were missing were indicative of his

story being accurate. On the oxygen cylinders issue, the company said in twenty seventeen it had identified some oxygen bottles received from the supplier that were not deploying properly, but denied that any of them were actually fitted on the aircraft. But of course he had indicated that as many as one in four oxygen masks were unlikely to deploy because

they were defective upon testing. So, yeah, the fact that he was in the middle of making these complaints, making his voice heard, and is found dead is extraordinary.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's really suspicious. And again, let's put this up there. This is just days after that. The US Justice Department is now opening a criminal inquiry into Boeing. This is tied to the Alaska Airlines incident specifically. Boeing also said told a Senate panel it cannot find record of the

work done on the Alaska plane. Really interesting. Can't find any record, and I just want to take it back to all of the I want to take it back to the rot of this company because spirit Aero Systems used to be a part of Boeing and then it was sold off by Boeing in the pursuit of shareholderism and of profit. So now what's happening now, as they understand that they're in deep shit. Boeing is now trying

to rebuy Spirit Error Systems. And now they're in a major crisis of the company because they're facing a Justice Department investigation. And I mean, the craziest part of all of this is that not even a few years ago they were found liable and nearly faced a murder prosecution for killing somewhat several hundred people in a faulty software update. All of the fixes we're supposed to have been put

in place down a new CEO, new corporate practices. But this tells you, like, it's not the new CEO problem, it's that the company doesn't know how to build an airplane anymore. And that can't get over it. Because this is the backbone of US manufacturing, high tech manufacturing specifically, it's one of the pride and joys of the US economy. And as usual, you know, over the last seventy seventy or forty thirty forty years, now, so it's the nineteen seventies.

It turns out that it's all just a financial fakery. They hired Niki Haley on the board, buying back tens of billions of dollars worth of their own stock. The stock is doing great, you know, before this, even after the you know, crazy incident, that's all they cared about. They never cared about this, and then it all just comes to head when a freaking door plug blows out

of the middle of the airplane. Lucky that it didn't happen when they were cruising altitude and several people would have been sucked.

Speaker 5

Out and killed.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I think there are two major societal root cause trends that led to these terrifying, horrifying and in certain instances, deadly mistakes. Number one is, as you're discussing the financialization of Boeing, which is something we see across companies, what does that mean? It means rather than caring about having the best engineers and the best product and making sure Dan well sure that it is safe and ready to go, Instead they were more focused on catering to the giant

casino that is Wall Street. So and that is not specific to Boeing. But obviously, in the instance of Boeing, the results are absolutely horrifying. Number two is a widespread trend across democratic and Republican administrations in the neoliberal era of defanging regulatory bodies and handing off some of their

key functions to industry itself. So over successive administrations, including some very recent day regulation under the Trump administration, the FAA has basically handed off a lot of its key functions to relying on companies like Boeing to basically self certify. So,

I mean, it sounds insane, but I'm not kidding. This is the direction that many government agencies have gone in where they're not even really capable of doing the sort of quality control and safety inspections that would be required to ensure that the public is kept safe when they're flying on one of these jets. It's handed off to industry. So you have the fox watching the henhouse in this instance and many others, And so that's how you end up with a situation like this where you know, so

many things, such sloppy work. If the testimony of this whistleblower, this now deceased whistleblower, is accurate, you know, just total shoddy safety standards, commitment to the bottom line speed saving costs above else, and you know, we see where this leads to.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think you're exactly right, Crystal. Hey, everybody, we were taking the show and there were some major breaking news that just came out. Some trans at least excerpts from the transcripts of the Special Counsel that interviewed Joe Biden and alleged that he at times had forgotten the name of his son and Moore has now had and been released ahead of Robert Hurst's testimony the Special Council

before Congress later on today. We wanted to take some time out of the show just to bring you some of the excerpts from that transcript, because, frankly, they are extraordinary and they do back up. Mister Hurst claims, let's go and put this up there on the screen, and I'm going to read directly from the transcript, specifically from the time when Biden appears to have forgotten the year

that his own son bo had died. He says, well, several eyes, I don't know, this is twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, that area the Special Council. Yes, sir, mister Biden, remember in this timeframe, my son is either been deployed or is dying. And so it was. And by the way, there were a lot of people at the time when I got out of the Senate that were encouraging me to run at this point, except the President. I'm not

and not a mean thing to say. He just thought that she had a better shot of winning the presidency than I did. And so I hadn't at this point, even though I'm at penn, I hadn't walked away from the idea that I may run for office again. But if I ran again, I'd be running for president. And so what was happening? Though? What month did bo die?

Speaker 4

Oh?

Speaker 2

Was it May thirtieth? A White House lawyer? Twenty fifteen, unidentified male speaker. Twenty fifteen, mister Biden. And this is the key quote. Was it twenty fifteen he had died? Unidentified male speaker? It was May of twenty fifteen, Biden? It was twenty fifteen, his lawyer. I'm not sure of the month, but I think that was the year. Another person,

that's right, mister President Biden. And then what's happened in the meantime is that and Trump gets elected in November of twenty seventeen, he asked, unidentified unidentified male speaker, twenty sixteen, twenty sixteen. All right, so then why do I have twenty seventeen here, White House Counsel. That's when you left office January of twenty seventeen. Yeah, okay, but that's when Trump gets sworn in January, right, mister Bauer, right, correct, okay, yeah,

and in twenty seventeen bo had passed. And this is personal, so, I mean, Crystal, this is crazy. Also, they haven't released the line from this, but this is your and mind favorite one so far. Mister Biden needed to be nudged to recall the name of the federal agency that takes custody of official records for the National Archives, or that a fax machine is the name of the device that

transmit images of documents over phone. Minds ironic, because he's so old, he probably did use fax machines, you know the name, even if we have outlived them.

Speaker 1

I have used a fax machine.

Speaker 2

I've never used that.

Speaker 1

But listen, I was saying, sometimes my brain feels a little bit like this, but I do feel confident I could always recall what the name of a fax machine was.

Speaker 2

I mean let's be real here, like this is crazy, here's yeah.

Speaker 1

So a few things. First of all, you recall that the president took great umbrage at the idea that he could not recall when his son had passed. He also took great umbrage at the notion that the Special Council had even brought this up. Well, it's clear from the transcript the Special Council didn't actually bring it up. Joe Biden himself brought it up. And it is entirely accurate to say he was unable to recall, even within a

few years, the date of when his son died. Not only that, in the same exchange, you see him struggling with the dates of when he was vice president. I mean, listen, you guys who are watching are probably political junkies like

we are. I mean, those dates of two thousand and eight and twenty sixteen are permanently etched in our heads as these seminal political moments of Barack Obama getting elected and then Donald Trump getting elected and being sworn in, Not in twenty not in twenty sixteen, not in November of twenty seventeen, but in January of twenty seventeen, when he's sworn in, so to be really struggling to grapple

with this basic timeline is really something. And then you know the line about he couldn't recall what a fax machine was. You know, there's a lot of coworld reading

the New York Times accounting of this transcript. There's a lot of cope in there about, well, they didn't talk about all the times when he was lucid, and they didn't talk about the fact that he seemed to have this really great recall of the layout of his own house, which is like, okay, to be impressed with that, But you know, I think it speaks to the fact that you can have moments like President Biden did in the State of the Union, where he more or less had

it together and seem, you know, energetic and lucid, et cetera. And then you also have times, and anyone who has elderly loved ones, friends, family and whatever can relate to this. You also have times that are very foggy and where

you're struggling with basic name, states, places, et cetera. So I think the transcript is entirely consistent with that understanding of where the president is mentally, and that understanding, which is shared with the American people think it also soccer underscores the some of the predictions we were making about how the impact of the state of the Union, which was you know, built so highly by the punnic class, is unlikely to be stained because for every instance that

you have like that where he seems like, all right, he's still got some you know, gas in the tank, there are instances like what's represented in this report where he's struggling, he's fumbling, he's mixing up names, he's mixing up countries, presidents of countries, et cetera.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, look, and it's not an exaggeration. Again, I'm going to read directly from the transcript. He says, do you have any idea where a material would have been before it was moved into your garage? Biden? Well, if it was twenty thirteen, then he goes, when did I stop being vice president? Someone says twenty seventeen, So it goes, so if I was vice president, it must have come from that stuff. That's all I can think of.

Then he later on is asked, my problem is I never knew where any documents were coming from or who packed them, just that I got them delivered to me. So at this stage two thousand and nine, am I still vice president? Someone whispers to him. He goes, yeah, okay, I mean again, you and I both know. I'm like, yeah, dude, he became vice president in January of two thousand and nine, when Barack Obama took the oath of office. So yes, in two thousand and nine, you were the vice president.

Twenty seventeen, we all know when Barack Obama left office and Donald Trump assumed office. Like, how do you not recall that immediately off the top of your head. I had previously seen Joe Scarborough defend Biden and be like, I loved my mother more than anyone else. And if you immediately asked me, I may not know the time, the exact year that she had died. I'm like, well, first of all, that's concerning. Second, I don't believe you. But third is what it becomes clear here. It is

a pattern of being clearly mixed up. More so, it is backed up entirely by multiple public moments. Crystal of confusing the President of France with Mitrand, who is now dead.

He has been gone for so long and no longer the president confusing the names and the leaders on top of people that he used to consort with or his times in the past, Like this is all a much bigger pattern in his public life, which is now confirmed shockingly, honestly in an official transcript by the Department, who again concluded they could not prosecute him because no jury would believe that like a doddering old man, you know, willfully was trying to hold secrets inside of his garage.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's right. And you know, there's a lot expressed that we can see in these bits of the transcript that we have in front of us about he has no idea how this is what he's saying, no idea how these boxes came to get there, no idea what's in those boxes, doesn't even recall the documents that are

in these boxes, et cetera. And so I think that plays into the Special Council's recommendation not to charge him, based on the fact that you know, a jury would be like this man is confused about all kinds of things, including how these boxes apparently ended up in his garage. The other thing that I'll say here is that you know, the American people have legitimate concerns about what's contained in this Special Council report, how that reflects upon his ability

to do the job. These are you know, understandable, legitimate based on their experience of the president and at this point in his life, and his team is also sort of communicating to the public that they also don't have confidence in his ability to assuage these concerns, which is why they keep him hidden so much. You know, it's one thing, Yes, he did the State of the Union

off of a teleprompter. It was okay for all things considered, but you know, free form interviews with difficult difficult interview, worse giving press of ails, et cetera. We know the way that they have really sheltered and shielded him from those exchanges. There has not been a commitment yet to

even debate with Donald Trump. I don't that may be a smart strategy, but in terms of democracy, they really owe it to the American people for them to get a sense of where he really is, not just on one night, but overall a more complete picture in general.

And listen, I also want to say, there are a lot of people that despise Donald Trump, and even if he's consistently as sort of befuddled as he comes off at times in this transcript, may still say I don't care, like it's not a great situation, but I'm still going to vote for Joe Biden. But they really do owe it to the American people to make him more available so that that determination could really be made.

Speaker 2

Yep, I totally agree. But yeah, it'll be up to the American people. What I just can't believe is that they actually do want to run him for four actually five more years remaining in the office.

Speaker 1

It is what it is, all right, guys, some very interesting news vis a vi bb Netnya Who's so the US has released in intelligence assessment. This happened just yesterday, which shed some insight I think into some of the political maneuvering, maybe less so the actual reality of the Netnyaho coalition and its strength in Israel. Let's go and

put this up on the screen. So this intelligence assessment, called the threat Assessment, raised doubts about whether or not net nyah who could stay in power, as the CIA director said a hostage deal was the most practical way to halt, at least temporarily, the war in Gaza. That threat assessment says the net NYA, whose right wing coalition quote may be in jeopardy. Here's specifically the language in

the report. They say, distrust of Netna who's ability to rule has deepened and broadened across the public from its already high levels before the war, and we expect large protests demanding his resignation and new elections quote a different, more moderate government is a possibility. The report also predicted that Israel would have trouble achieving its stated goal of

destroying Hamas. Quote Israel probably will face a lingering armed resistance from Hamas for years to come, and the military will struggle to neutralize hamasa's underground infrastructure, which allows insurgents to hide, regain strength and surprise Israeli forces. Sosager. It's interesting that this was included in this report, obviously a very intentional inclusion. Now, whether or not that right wing coalition is in fact in jeopardy is, you know, as

a real question mark. There's definitely a lot of fishers there that have come out into the public. The public definitely does not support Nanyaho, although a significant amount at least feel like he should stay. They shouldn't have new elections until asked after the war is concluded, which is why he wants the WOR to continue basically indefinitely. So there are some real fishers and problems there for him,

which we've spoken about before. But what I took more note of is just the fact that this was this sort of like shot across the bow from the Biden administration to express their displeasure with Phoebe and also positions their critique of Israel as just being about this one person versus these sort of broader issues, and it doesn't reflect the fact that you know, the entire security cabinet, whether they're a quote unquote moderate or right wing like Nannyah,

who are more or less basically united, as is the public behind this all at assault on a Godza strip.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so Odie and I their threat assessment. It is a political document, like people should be very clear about that. I read most of it yesterday just it was interested. I like to see what the CIA and all them been cooking up in terms of their fakery on Ukraine. That's why I was reading through. But I read through the Israel thing and actually didn't strike me because I hadn't thought of it in the political way that you are.

But it should have been obvious is this is the bipartisan or sorry, this is the democratic like emerging consensus. We're like, well, I read a bb and now the government has this fake intelligence. Maybe you know that his coalition and all that have been undermined. And I don't know, Crystal. I mean, look, I think there's no doubt he's tremendously unpopular. At the same time, it's March twelfth, like it's been

a long time since October seventh, he's still there. This lasted longer than Liz trusts, and she did not nearly as bad as Bibi, right, So if the political will was there, I feel like something would happen. I'm not as confident that Netanya, who is as weak, you know, as people may think, especially if there's ongoing on hostilities. Obviously why it's his direct interest to continue to do so. But it is noteworthy for the political point.

Speaker 1

That yeah, I see it as part of the rest of the pr campaign that we've been tracking. The Oh we're really concerned about civilians. We're going to do you know a humanitarian aid drop that you killed five people and barely contains any aid, or we're going to build over multi months with one thousand plus US soldiers this temporary port when we could just pressure Israels who actually let in the trucks that are a mass at the border right now, and by the way, pressure them to

stop the bombing. But we don't want to actually change our policy. We just want to change the way the Democratic base feels about that policy. So, you know, putting out this this is like the next iteration of all those leaks early on about how Biden was having really tough conversations with net Yahoo. This is like the next

iteration of that. It comes after Kamala Harris said the words cease fire, saying temporary ceasefire, so not the lasting ceasepire that you know, the majority of the American public wants to see, but co opting that language. It comes after very significantly actually inviting Benny Gantz, a rival of net NA who's an also member of the Security Cabinet, to come visit with the Vice President and also with

Jake Sullivan over the objections of net Nyaho. So again, I think they're trying to posture for the American public and especially for the Democratic base that they get it. They care about Palestinians, they don't like this bad guy, this bad Apple Net Yahoo, even though the problems go

far beyond him. So that's the sort of vein that I'm seeing this in as part and parcel with the rest of the pr push to change the imaging and branding of the US complicity and the genocide without actually changing the US policy of being complicit in the genocide.

At the same time, Bib Natanyahu himself notably gave a big interview over to Fox and Fox News, Fox and Friends, where he made some interesting comments, including some that are very disconnected from reality, about how Americans feel about Israel's assault on Goz At this point, let's take a listen.

Speaker 8

I'm telling you that we have to take care of Israel's security in our future, and that requires eliminating the terrorist army. That's a prerequisite for victory. That victory is important not only for us, it's important for the civilized world as we're finding these barbarians. And let me tell you something. You know, I've seen these recent polls were eighty two percent of Americans support Israel and its battle against Kamas. Eighty two percent. That's been constant over the

last five months. So they recognize that our battle is your battle, and our victory is your victory. And I'm sure that deep down everyone in Washington understands that.

Speaker 1

So I'm not sure where he's getting his numbers from. That eighty two percent of Americans support Israel and have consistently supported Israel since October seventh. Let's go and put this up on the screen. Just put some actual numbers to it. This was quoted by Ken Roth. He says more than half of Americans state Washington should hold weapons shipments to Israel until it stops the assault on Gaza.

According to a new poll, many in the Democratic Party want Biden to use some of the US considerable military aid to Israel as a lever. We've been tracking this, of course, Saga. I mean overwhelming numbers in favor of a ceasefire, especially among the Democratic based, huge, huge numbers in favor of a ceasefire. Now we have a majority saying hey, we should not be shipping weapons until they stop this assault on Gaza. So I don't know where his eighty two percent number is coming from, but it

is incredibly fanciful and disconnected from reality. In addition, you know, he continues to use this framing like, oh, our war is your war and you know, pulling us into this. Listen, in a sense, he's right because of the way that we've supported it. But you know, the idea that this has some broader global stakes outside of the conflict between Israel and Gaza. I mean, that's the other piece that has always been objectionable to me.

Speaker 2

Well, that is certainly what he would like, because he wants to pawn everything off after the day of the war ends, onto us truly, and for us to pay for it, as we are already doing with this new Gaza peer and thousands of American soldiers that will be involved. His dream is for us to occupy Gaza and for him them to just you know, disappear. I guess Scott free. Meanwhile, there's also no Palestinian state. Interesting, you know, how they

get everything that they want. He really struck this also later on in the interview Crystal, where he frames it not even in terms of a US war, but how this is good for Islam, this is good for Muslims in the region, this is good for Gosins. This is very Iraq war esque, like trying to make a coalition of the willing and a liberation of the country itself. Let's take a listen.

Speaker 8

The future of the Middle East, the future of many Muslims, the future of Gosins is dependent on our victory, and we don't intend to get up. We're going to achieve this victory, I hope with the solid support of the American government as we've had up to now, and I hope it continues.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so there you go. It's now. It's a war for gossins, It's war of liberation. A lot. There's just so many rings to Iraq, you know, throughout all this, from the response to not understanding how the international community is responding to the lack of day after you know, plan or even if they do have a plan, and whether they're going to execute it or not. So I don't know. I mean rhetoric like this, it's clearly built for somebody to be clear, it's obvious why it's going

on Fox News. I wish just for once, he would do an interview in his own country with his own media, because they would actually press him.

Speaker 9

You know.

Speaker 2

Even though Israeli societies buy and large behind the war, they're much more you know, they're much more willing to ask real questions, ask a hostage question or something. These people ask him nothing. It's just like sounding off on Fox News. Ridiculous.

Speaker 1

It's also, I mean, it contributes to the increasingly partisan valance of how Americans feel about the state of Israel. And I mean, Nano has been long been a part of affiliating that is, the you know, the cause of Israel and Zionism directly with the Republican Party. This goes back to Obama when he was very opposed Netna, was very opposed to the Iranian nuclear deal. He comes over the objections of Obama, speaks to Congress, and you know

it's from there that you see this trend developing. And now you know, you see very clearly the overwhelming majority of the Democratic base wildly disagrees with Biden's unconditional support of Israel policy. Quite a lot of independence do, a

not insignificant number of the Republican base does. But Republican elected politicians are almost completely locked up, with basically the exception of like Thomas Massey in support of effectively the Biden policy, even though they posture is like, oh, we want to go even further, like there's much further that

you could really go. But there was another moment in this interview that was quite noteworthy, not because it's new, but because it's somewhat new for Americans to be grappling with the fact that the Israelis, especially led by bib Nanya, who have no interest in a Palestinian state, which remember, has been the official stated goal and policy all the United States of America for literally decades now. And you know here he is saying, listen, no one wants a

Palestinian state. Me least of all, let's take a listen to that.

Speaker 8

Ninety nine to nine Knnestant members that's over ninety percent supported my policy of opposing a Palestinian state being rammed down Israel's throat. That's what we had the other day. So when people say, well, we have to have this, you know, talk with Nataniel because he's holding back the prospect of this wondrous peace for the Palestinian state. You don't have an issue with me. You have an issue

with the entire people of Israel. They're really united as never before and uniting to destroy Hamas and ensure that we don't have another Palestinian terrorist state like the one they had in Gaza that could threaten the of the state of Israel. That's something that the people of Israeli are united behind, and for what I can see, most Americans support that as well.

Speaker 1

So he's saying, listen, in Israel, we're united. We don't want a Palestinian state. Now, he wildly overstates the case, because you know, when you actually pull israelis there is still some support among the Israeli public for an eventual Palestinian state. Can put this up on the screen. This was the latest pull I could find. The question also is quite specific to the moment, so I thought that

was good too. Poulterers asked, you support or oppose the notion that as part of a deal to end the war, which will include long term military quiet guarantees from the US and a peace agreement with Arab states such as Saudi Arabia, Israel should agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Fifty one percent said no, But you do have thirty six percent who say yes. So it's not

like it's one hundred percent uniform. But Bibi is making it as clear as Dayan said repeatedly, many many times now to the US public directly, I do not want a Palestinian state. I will stand in opposition to a Palestinian state. It has been my lifelong goal to block a Palestinian state. And so that part of the particular US fantasy about the Israeli government position and the idea that the problem in terms of thwarting a peace deal

is solely on the Palestinian side, that particular fantasy. He is insisting on getting rid of, wiping clean, shooting down, and it's pathetic and humiliating for the Biden administration that they can't really acknowledge or gropple with that, and that he feels perfectly comfortable to go on American television and put that in their face that like, yeah, I know that's your goal, but I don't care. I am completely opposed to it, always had been and always will be.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

That's the issue is that it's like a fantasy version of Israel that lives in their head, not the real one that most people are grappling with. That's also why some of the public polling such diverges with a lot of the rhetoric that we see out of the administration. But eventually they will have to grapple with reality. You know, the war will come to the end one day and then what you know, what exactly are we going to do. We'll see yep. Indeed, let's move on to the next part.

There's some really shocking and just terrible footage that is coming out of Ukraine. There's been footage now that has been verified of Ukrainian border guards who actually caught several men of conscription age who are attempting to flee the country. Each of them had paid ten thousand euros to actually escape Ukraine. Ukrainian border guards caught them and beat them actually on camera. We can place some of that that

you can see here. I mean, it's just really brutal treatment, as you guys can see, like being dragged out, thrown on the ground, being beaten up, being harangued there at the border, and it is just illustrative of the desperate conditions that a lot of the people in the country now feel as the war continues to not doing very well, and I think that, you know, this reality is beginning

to sink in for a lot of people. The CIA director actually just yesterday testified he's like, well, you know, without usaid, we're going to see a lot more of the falls of Atvika. But the irony is is that the reason that we have to get more aid. Is that then maybe in twenty twenty five they can change the status quo. I mean the status quo. You can't change the fact that you have a population that doesn't

particularly want to fight. As evidenced here, most of those who did want to fight are either dead or now maimed. The average age is some forty eight to fifty years old. In the Ukrainian military, they've been unable to adopt Western style tactics successfully. What they can do is to employ a massive amount of artillery ammunition. Here's the problem. We literally don't produce even one third the entire west of

what Russia can do in a single year. I mean, all of the odds are stacked against them, and the fundamentals of the conflict have been basically the same from day one f Sixteen's Crystal As you'll remember. The only thing that I think more AID would do now at this point is have the Ukrainians be in such a risky position that they would get US involved. And we're

starting to see some of this. The checks, the French, the polls are all trying to normalize now the idea that NATO troops should have to go in and on the ground, which of course is full blown World War three. That's their plan what they have right now.

Speaker 1

Otherwise, I mean, they have no pay, they don't have a shot prayer victory. So yeah, I mean we've seen the way that there's been this escalation from the beginning of the Ukraine War of all these red lines that were drawn about you know what we would and wouldn't send, and we just keep you know, walking by them, walking by them, walking by them, and eventually you get to the point where the only thing left is all right, you need troops because you don't have enough fighting men

left or willing. So I guess we're going to come in and do that as well, which is why you really can't just hand wave away some of the things that Emmanuel Macron in particular has been saying. You know, I mean this video is I think it's really important for a number of reasons. Number one, it underscores the fact that even though I'm sure that if you ask Ukrainians like, do you want to keep, you know, in theory fighting and reclaim your land, You're going to get

an overwhelming yes. But when you ask Ukrainians, are you personally at this point willing to risk your life in service of that goal. The answer is increasingly.

Speaker 3

Know.

Speaker 1

It also underscores the fact, you know, these men had paid a significant amount of money to try to avoid the draft, and this was something that we had talked about before, the fact that you know, those there is a significant corruption problem in Ukraine. So those who have been able to pay, who have the money, have buy and large been able to escape fighting in the war.

And so it's left to the poor and those without the means or the political connections who were sent into this meat grinder, and increasingly you're running out of those as well. So as much as the you know, military weapon issue is acute for Ukraine, the manpower issue is at least as acute for Ukraine. I think that is part of what comes out in this city.

Speaker 2

I've said this too. I saw it personally. I was in Budapest and in Vienna. They're Ukrainians everywhere. It's a joke, like the tour guides joke about it. They're like, oh, by the luxury hotels, They're like, look at all these Ukrainian plates. There was a joke in Vienna that every strip club in the city has been packed full for two years by all these rich Ukrainian dudes who don't want to fight and are filthy rich. I mean a certain point, you can't judge them because they paid their

way out and they don't want to. But it's more one of those where it's like, really, this is such an open secret in all of Europe, and yet here, especially in Central Europe, but over here, like we have a fantasy version of this conflict. You also see the continued descent is completely crushed no matter where it comes from.

Let's put this up there on the screen. The recent target of Ukrainian propaganda is the Pope, who has provoked outrage for saying that Ukraine should have the courage to quote raise the white flags and end the war with Russia. I shall also be clear, he didn't actually specify that Ukraine should be the one, but he said that people should have the courage to quote raise the right flag and to end the war in order to stop the suffering, to which the Ukrainian Foreign minister said, our flag is

a yellow blue one. This is the flag by which we will live, die, and we will prevail. We shall never raise any other flags. And the Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski said that the Pontiff was quote engaging in virtual mediation and that they support us with the prayer and their beliefs. But this is indeed what a church with the people is, not twenty five hundred kilometers away somewhere, mediation between someone who wants to live and who wants

to destroy you. We've also seen, let's put this next one up there, that they are now Ukrainian propaganda accounts that are tarnishing the Pope in a Russian made flag, as if that's going to be a popular strategy all across Europe and for a lot of the people who have been calling for peace in Ukraine. But it just demonstrates, Chris how unhinge the discourse remains, and it's just a basic concept floated there by the Pope and he was

like almost immediately crushed. You actually see some of this too whenever he talks about Israel and gods as well. So yeah, not necessarily surprised, but it does show you how crazy the rhetoric that remains inside Ukraine is and it does not match any of the actions that anyone with the eyes can see.

Speaker 1

The Foreign Minister of Ukraine seemed to equate the Pope's position here to Nazi collaboration in the last century. He said, first of all, he called on Francis to stand on the side of good, not put Russia and Ukraine on the same footing and call it negotiations. He also appeared to refer to collaboration between some of the Catholic Church and Nazi forces during the Second World War. Quote at the same time, when it comes to the white Flag, we know this Vatican strategy from the first half of

the twentieth century. I urged to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past and to support Ukraine and its people in their just struggle for their lives. The reality is, if we had actually cared about the Ukrainian people, we would not have short circuited those negotiations early on. Obama actually had warned Biden back during his administration not to over promise the Ukrainians, knowing the limits of what our

support could do. But we again engaged in this delusional and very arrogant view that said, oh, we can keep our hands clean and just you know, ship some weapons will be good for our economy, the military, the military industrial base will love it, and we'll be able to destroy Russia. We're going to use our economic sanctions, et cetera. None of that has gone the way that they thought it would, you know, at least of all the sanctions at this point, we threw Russia's the most sanctioned country

on the planet. We threw our entire playbook at them and basically gave a preview of how limited the efficacy of those sanctions actually is. So way to go, guys.

Speaker 2

Great strategy, that's totally shocking, and yet very little changing there in terms of the status quo. Perhaps reality will eventually sit in, but it is not today.

Speaker 1

Yes, indeed, some notable comments from Bill Maher recently. We always love his political evolutions. Here this man support of Bernie Sanders in twenty sixty though, I mean he yeah, in theory did Then he goes to Amy Kolobashar in twenty twenty, and now he's got a new idea of his dream ticket. Let's takealism.

Speaker 9

I know it's crazy to think that she could run with Biden, but that's my dream, a unity ticket, and then he would, I think, definitely win because nobody's going to And of course she said some crazy things most politicians have not as crazy as we've never been a racist country. I mean that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2

But you would literally destroy the Democratic base. I mean, take off the first African American female Vitu.

Speaker 5

She's a woman of color, but it's just.

Speaker 2

Like women are like the the Democratic Party.

Speaker 1

So he's talking there about dream ticket with Joe Biden and Nikki really.

Speaker 2

Or bit Romney of course, don't want erase Mitt Romney. Yeah, I don't know. I mean this is this is one of those where every time a unity ticket gets mentioned, you should be terrified. The last unity ticket that almost materialized in America was John McCain and Joe Lieberman, two of the most unhinged neo cons to ever live. Can you imagine how many wars we would have been in if those two had ever been elected to the presidency. I would have rather had Sarah Palin and the Vice

President's chair and then Joe Lieberman. But you know, media eats this crap up. They love it, the idea that Nicki and Biden are going to join forces. Or again, Mitt Romney, It's like, what do these people believe? Like, yeah, they may talk nice, they may also not like Trump, what do they fundamentally believe it? Turns out it's some crazy stuff here. They always erase that they'd rather take the rhetoric whatever.

Speaker 1

There's some real alignment between Nicki and Biden on Israel, certain, and of course there's onement between Biden and Trump on Israel as well. So great democratic choices we have here. How do you think this ticket would actually perform though? Do you think it would do well if you didn't care about the policy and the idea of you know, having this neocon is vice part to whatever. If you put that aside and you're just talking about pure electoral politics, how do you think it would.

Speaker 2

Do I hate to say it, I actually think he's right, and I think it would do well. I do think I say I think I respect Terra the person who said that it would destroy the democratic coolish Yeah, Democratic coalistion and hates Trump so much they're going to vote for anybody who's not named Trump. Second, Nikki Haley, as we've all seen, she gets about a third of the people who vote in these GOP primaries, suburban women, and

all of them they do love her. They love that particular brand, rhetoric, the kicking whatever direction that she is. I can see it. Actually, I hate to say it. I actually think that given what we talked about in our earliest segment of the show about a lot of rich people preferring Democrats, now you can get a decent amount of the rich peopleho are still Republicans to crossover

to vote for somebody like her. They fetishize the idea of you know, unity in the worst possible way, and it may draw enough of these rich small business owner Republicans who don't like Trump to at least consider voting for Biden, and they would love that idea. Plus they hate they probably hate. They probably hate Kamala more than they hate Nikki Haleey. Although I could be wrong, so politically, I unfortunately believe that it might be a potent take.

Romney's a different story, that's actually different. I'm really I think of my work.

Speaker 1

I'm not as convinced. You know, I've even seen polls that were Nicki versus Biden where Trump actually does better versus Biden. So I think her electoral strength number one is a bit overstated. In number two, the comment that Tara made there is an important one, which is you're already on the rocks with significant portions of your coalition.

You pick some psycho Republican corporate neocon type as your number two, like they are going to They're gone, right, They're at the very least not going to show up, maybe vote third party whatever. So I feel personally like the type of white, suburban, college educated voters that would be interested in the Biden Nicki ticket are probably already

voting for Joe Biden. Like that realignment I think has already pretty much happened and consolidated, which is why you saw even the Republican primary, the people who were voting for Nicki Haley were a lot of Democrats who had a pretty favorable view of Joe Biden are likely to vote for him in the fault anyway. So I don't know that it's the electoral winner that Bill Maher thinks it is. I'm personally a little more skeptical of that

as long as we're playing like fantasy politics here. There are some other noteworthy comments from actor Robert de Niro on the show as well about how he feels about Donald Trump and what might happen in another Donald Trump term. Let's take a listen to.

Speaker 10

Those such a mean, nasty, hateful person, I'd never pay play him as an actor, because I can't see any good in him, nothing, nothing at all, nothing redeemable in him, and we have to and whoever the people are who want to vote for him, and they look like intelligent peoples around there for some reason that it can't be. It cannot be. If he is he wins the election, you won't be on the show anymore.

Speaker 2

He'll come looking for.

Speaker 5

Me, He'll they'll they'll be, they'll.

Speaker 10

Be things that happened that none of us can imagine. That's what happens in that kind of a dictatorship, which is what he says. Let's believe him, take him at his word.

Speaker 9

I did from the beginning. Yeah, I mean, I said from the very beginning, this guy is never going to concede power. And he still hasn't. He still hasn't admitted he lost the last election, and he advertises that he will go on. He thinks, he says, he's been cheated out of one term, so maybe we should get rid of the only president only gets two terms.

Speaker 4

Thing.

Speaker 2

There is so much narcissis and these people it's unlike, how are you Robert de Niro at the center of Trump's mind? Like nobody cares about you? Dude, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1

Actually had kind of the same react, So a few things. I mean, I don't really dispute his characterization of Trump. I did find it interesting, And I'd like to speak with another thespian about the analysis that he wouldn't play him because he can't see any good in him, Like, is that necessary to make a character interesting, that you at least see some side of humanity in them?

Speaker 2

He played the sociopath Bernie made Off, so he can't play Trump, Like, what are you talking? Made Off? Look, you can hate Trump if you want. Made Off was genuinely an evil person in terms of what he did and the people who he ripped off, including members of his own religious community who he bankrupted, and he never expressed a single ounce of remorse and drove his own

son to suicide. So if you can play that person, and oh and his other son then died of cancer, arguably from the stress induced by having to turn his own father in as a crook, if you can play that person with some level of empathy. But you think that Trump is somehow more evil than that that, I think you're actually out of your mind.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Oh, and not to mention in killers of the Flower Moon a murderous psychopath who is poisoning his own daughter or no whatever, uh whatever Leo. Yeah, it's Leo's wife, but I forget their relationship. I think it might be his uncle or something like that. Anyway, dude, Yeah, if you could play somebody who is poisoning Native women, killing them and then rolling up their inheritances so that you

can then take over plot you know. Spoiler alert by the way, then I think that you can possably play Trump in a movie.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I thought that was interesting. I just wonder if other actors have that same sense of, like, I need to be able to find some like positive aspect of this, you know, killer psychopath whatever in order to pay anyway, put that aside. That was what struck me too. Is again, like, I think Trump is a deeply dark and nefarious figure. I think what he did on Generary six was horrible. I think he does want to take power and hold onto it and likes all of those things. But there

isn't evidence. I guess I wouldn't say it's evidence based that Trump, who could have, I guess gone after Bill Maher and Robert de Niro in the first term, particularly has a sight set on them for the second. That is a part of it. That's like, you know, there's a lot of other problems that you focus on with the Trump era, him going to lock up random actors or commentator.

Speaker 2

Donnie Deutsch said the same thing. Remember, probably he's gonna throw ust In Priss. It's like, no, he's not. Nobody is thinking about you except you, and that is where the narcissism. I mean, if you saw the crowd laughed at him, they were laughing well, and that's why.

Speaker 1

I couldn't quite tell if it was a joke or it is meant to be serious, But it seemed like he managed to be serious even as the audience thought.

Speaker 2

It was serious. I think Bill is too, So anyway, that's our latest update from the Bill Maher edition also had to give a little bit of a UFO update and put that in the show. Let's put this up there on the screen broke. Earlier this week, the Pentagon, in what is now tradition at this point, has said it has found no evidence of extraterrestrial spacecraft in its possession. A sixty three page unclassified report published says that the

most comprehensive report the Pentagon has ever produced. They have batted down claims of any reverse engineering programs. Inside of

the Department of Department of Defense. It was part of the ARROW Office, the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, which says that they reviewed records from nineteen forty five to October of twenty twenty three and have definitively been able to find that there has been no evidence of any US government investigation, academic sponsored research, official review panel that has confirmed any sighting of a ua REP that has

represented extraterrestrial technology. According to Major General pat writer in this statement, now, there are a couple of things though that they may be neglected to point out, and some other glaring things that I wanted to put in there. Let's put this up there please on the screen. Actually Garrett Graff, who who wrote an interesting book about UFO, some of which I have beef about, but it actually

raises some good questions. First and foremost, he goes, there are four actual questions that are not being answered here. One is the alternative hypothesis of secret tech from foreign nations. Two is their definition of quote what a peculiar characteristic

of an aircraft is? Three is anything about material and any material science breakthroughs by defense contractors and four is quote scientists at the forefront of physics point out that we should be humble about how little of the universe that we truly understand and of the knowledge limit that

was baked into the report. But I thought that the questions that he raises are very legitimate, Crystal, and I just think it comes back to the idea that an agency which has been unable to pass its own audit for five years can effectively now audit all of its historical programs going back to nineteen forty five and be and claim any sort of legitimacy in the eyes of

the public. In my opinion, totally ridiculous, actually, when you incorporate many of the questions that Garrett, who is by the way, a skeptic of a lot of stuff that I would believe even that he points out in his Wired report.

Speaker 1

So this does not close the door for you in terms of how.

Speaker 2

Cold you're like these people can't account for a trillion dollars in their own body.

Speaker 1

Us nothing to see here. People were all good. I did think this our article was very interesting because it matched up some of the claims and you know, testimony people who saw things that they couldn't explain with what the report claims that it was, and pairs that up with past incidents of things that were thought to be UFOs and then were later identified as just advanced US aircraft that the public didn't know about yet. So he

writes a ar O untangled. One witnesses claim of spotting a UAP with quote peculiar characteristics at a specific time and place and were able to determine at the time. The interview said he observed the event. The DoD was conducting tests of a platform protected by an SAP, a special acts this program that means people don't know about it. The seemingly strange characteristics reported by the interviewee matched closely with the platform's characteristics, which was being tested at a

military facility in the time frame the interviewee was there. So, Garrett Wrights, what was that craft and what were its peculiar characteristics? A lot of the questions he raises here is like, Okay, so if you're talking a lot of this up to new technology development or even more radically, like new potential understandings of physics and the basic mechanics of how the universe works, like tell us more about that, what if? What is that all about? What are we developing?

Because this is one of the things you always point out is typically there's some indication of breakthroughs that are about to be made, or like the science or the math has already worked out and theoretically and it just hasn't been able to be applied in a practical way.

So what he's getting from this report is a lot of maybe there are some quite you know, there may be some quite advanced technology the public eye no awareness of that might have been reverse engineered from China or Russia or another global power and could explain some of these instances as it has in the past.

Speaker 2

Maybe it's captured alien tech. I mean, you know, we would know. Like this is the thing I say it all the time, as you just reference the atomic bomb was an engineering problem. It was not a theoretical problem. There is no theoretical solution for many of the peculiar characteristics, as he points out, for a lot of what is pointing out, for a lot of what has been described

by these people, maybe they're mistaken. And look, I should also note ninety nine point nine percent are going to have a human explanation that's the point of actual review. The reason why I don't take anything these people say seriously is that the former Director Sean Kirkpatrick has conducted himself in a crazy manner and has honestly lied to the American public multiple times now, at least whenever he was under oath and before Congress. That's been disproven by

his own staff too. Is that we still remain and have huge questions from the UFO whistleblower, David Grush. One of the points that he made in his testimony again under oath was that defense contractors specifically have been using this audit loophole and the lack of oversight over DoD funding by siphoning off large amounts of product, large amounts of funding to then rededicate to material science research as it is then applied to UFOs. Is he lying, I

don't know. I mean, no one's proven that he's yet lied yet so far, there have been multiple efforts otherwise to actually obfuscate his testimony and to keep him from testifying a classified setting to a lot of these people. Apparently the news is now chrisly Action might be going to work for Congress, which would be great because maybe

it can help uncover some of this stuff. My only point is that there is no reason to take anything that these people say and just as definitive when again, whenever it comes to the law mandated audit, they cannot account for more than a trillion dollars of their own

assets five years or so in a row. It's like, how are we supposed to believe that you conducted some comprehensive thing going back until nineteen forty five, like all the bureaucratic trickery and all the other things that Garret Graft lays out to in his piece.

Speaker 1

So what happens next?

Speaker 2

Sagarbout what it was going to happen next. It's like we just keep waiting. We just wait and wait and wait. It's like we keep getting these fake reports. They assume people will believe it. People keep telling me that, you know, there's going to be some more whistleblowers and others for catastrophic disclosure, especially after what happened with the UFO Amendment. It's possible. I don't know. I still wait. I'm a bit despondent now. Honestly, I thought Grush would change stuff.

I thought more people would come forward. I've been informed that more maybe will, but you know, we'll take it in a case by case basis. I'll only evaluate it as we can see in terms of what comes to me. But this does not allay any more of my big questions that remain here.

Speaker 1

Yes, well, we have some decidedly terrestrial and man made concerns. Real chaos unfolding in Haiti. We wanted to understand more about what's happening. We've got a great guest standing by to do help us do exactly that. Let's get to it. Chaotics situation unfolding right now down in Haiti, where current Prime Minister ariel Onrie has said he will resign once a transitional council is in place. This comes in the wake of a variety of paramilitary organizations or gangs forming

an alliance to try to overrun the state government. We wanted to dig into whatever the heck is happening here, and we're lucky to have an expert on Haiti joining us at the table. Jake Johnston is the author of Aid State and he is also a senior research associate at the Center for Economic and Policy Research. Welcome, Jake, great to have you.

Speaker 2

Good to see you man.

Speaker 5

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1

So, first of all, start with is what I just said there accurate? How would you describe what's happening and unfolding on the ground in Haiti?

Speaker 11

Yeah, I mean I think in general that set's right. I mean, we've had this announcement last night, and I think one key piece of this also is that announcement followed a separate announcement coming out of Kingston from the care Com community, the leaders of the Caribbean Nations. Secretary

of State Blincoln was there as well. Prim Missire of Canada also participate in a number of other forms, announcing support for a new Transitional Council Presidential Council of seven members to take over the government and name.

Speaker 5

A new Prime minister.

Speaker 11

And so that directly preceded Henri's pre recorded message last night sort of announcing his intention to eventually resign.

Speaker 2

So why don't you take us back to some of the roots of this people, I'm not even particularly familiar. We covered previously some of the collapse, but it feels like there's been full scale societal breakdown. So what are at the roots of this most recent iteration of that and what do you get into in the book?

Speaker 8

Yeah?

Speaker 11

Sure, So I think, you know, there's a few things to understand about this very approximate causes of what happened. I mean, so one, there was an announcement about two weeks ago from these same actors that are now announcing a new government that Henri would hold an election in August twenty twenty five, so well out into the future.

This is a leader who has come under a criticism for his lack of legitimacy, right, consolidating all the power under him over the last two plus years in office in Haiti, and so that was obviously met with quite a bit of concern in Haiti, right. And it was the next morning that you really saw these coordinated attacks against government institutions begin across the capitol. Taking a step back, right and going into some of these deeper causes, right,

because this has not happened. You know, this is not a week old. It's not two weeks old. It's not two years old, right, I mean, in many ways, this is two hundred years old. Haiti was born of a successful slaver vaults, right, the first country to abolish slavery and its constitution, and in many ways it has paid

for that ever since. Right, and at the root of so much of the conflict won this history of foreign intervention, and two a broken social contract where you have a state that has not represented or been held accountable by the people itself, but really more so from external actors, which again gets into that history of foreign intervention.

Speaker 1

Can you talk about who these gangs are, what are their roots, what do they want, what's the role that they're playing in this cars?

Speaker 11

Yeah, it's a lot too unpack here, right, and things are moving quickly, and I think there's also another issue, which is, you know, what people say, as we know, is not always what their real motivations are.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 11

So the big change that we saw over the last couple of weeks was that these disparate arm groups that again have been involved in different sorts of criminal activities kidnapping, rape, extortion, things like this for many years, but of course all have different motivations, different interests, different connections to communities and things like this, have joined forces together right in this effort to oust ONNRI. But what their ultimate end goal in all of this is, I think remains a bit.

Speaker 5

To be seen.

Speaker 11

They have been seemingly allied with an individual who is seeking to claim political power and become president. An individual Gi Philippe. He is a former police officer who was very involved in the two thousand and four coup of the democratically elected John Berchard Aristid. He was in twenty seventeen, he was arrested in Haiti and actually extradited to the US and spent the last six plus years in jail

on money laundering related to drug trafficking charges. And he was actually just deported back to Haiti by the US administration in November of twenty twenty three.

Speaker 5

And there does.

Speaker 11

Appear to be at least some coordination between his political ambitions and the actions we're seeing from armed groups in the streets.

Speaker 2

Oh interesting, So relate back to you were talking about foreign intervention. Your book is called Aid State. Just give us some maybe even more context as you're talking there about intervention, about some of the failures of AID. As you said, as bipartison, it goes back a long way for people who aren't as familiar.

Speaker 11

Maybe yes, of course, I mean I talked some about the history, right, and so we can talk about the US occupation in French colonism, but we don't need to go that far back to understand the foreign intervention.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 11

I mentioned the two thousand and four coup in twenty ten. This was right after the earthquake, right, And this is what I think a lot of US audience sort of remembers about Haiti was this big earthquake and billions of dollars being pledged in a very high profile effort. Former President Clinton was awfully involved. Secretary of State Clinton was involved at the time as well, so ten billion dollars.

But there's an electoral process right after that earthquake as well, and the international community of the US, the OS, and other players direct intervened and overturned the results of that election, ushering into power. Michel Martelli and him and his political allies have basically been governing the country with the backing of the international community for the last fifteen years.

Speaker 8

Right.

Speaker 11

And so when we look at the situation today, that dynamic is at the cause of so much of this. Right, is that these governments that have been elected in very low turnout votes, with questionable legitimacy, with possible criminal ties and alleged things of this nature, and that have received

this international support so consistently for so long. It really made a Haitian solution Haitian's coming together to build something different, to build something that could actually be sustainable, next to impossible. And I think one of the really concerning things right now is with Henri. He was blocked from returning to the country about a week ago. He tried to return, he was not able to. He's been basically quiet and holed up in Puerto Rico for the last week ipen

until last night. But in that vacuum, in that absence is international actors who have sort of facilitated this political negotiation. But the optics of what happened, it looked almost as if Haitian coalitions were submitting their applications to the international

community to be accepted. And this dynamic of foreign actors providing legitimacy for Haitian governments is again at the cause of the root cause of so many of the issues we've seen, right, And so this announcement in and of itself is certainly not a solution to the situation in Haiti, right. It is a potential first step, but far from a resolution of the crisis.

Speaker 1

Part of what you lay out in your book, and you actually start with this is this comparison between the quote unquote nation building we did in Afghanistan alongside this quote unquote less heralded and less visible quote unquote nation building that we were doing in Haiti. Obviously, both were complete and utter failures. One of the things that you point out is the fact that you know aid, international aid, which sounds great and sound okay, you want to go in.

It's humanitarian and Bill Clinton's going to be there and he's going to help you all. But over time, the way that AID has been deployed has been in the service of our interests and not in the service of Haitian interests, and has actually undercut the ability of the Haitian government itself to fulfill that basic social contract. So what can we say about this project of nation building in Haiti as we watch what's unfolding now?

Speaker 11

Yeah, I think the most similar thing is you can't impose a democracy, you can't impose a state from external sources, right, I mean.

Speaker 5

It's just not going to work.

Speaker 11

You might buy a little time, you might have these periods of stability, but in the long run, it is going to blow back, right, it is going to blow up. And that is I think what we're seeing in Haiti. I think it's what we've seen in other nations where this has been tried as well. We're looking at foreign assistance in general, right, and it's not all humanitarian, right. There are big money going through development projects and things

like this. One thing to understand, right is these aren't you're sort of mom and pop NGOs, church groups that we sort of think of when we think of humanitarianism.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 11

The biggest players who receive US foreign assistants money are for profit corporations. Okay, we've designed a system that delivers aid aid right to developing countries and others.

Speaker 5

But as you said, at its core are US interest, right.

Speaker 11

And so for Congress who doesn't really like to appropriate money for foreign aid in general, if they are going to justify it, what's in it for my district, what's in it for my constituents?

Speaker 4

Right?

Speaker 5

And so we have created a legislation.

Speaker 11

We've created requirements that force these aight agencies to give money to US corporations to import US things. And Okay, you can understand it from a US perspective and US interest, but what is the actual effect of that on the ground, Right. It's undermining local markets, it's undermining local organizations, the very organizations whose organization, right, who bring people together is what could actually lead to a sustainable local solution.

Speaker 8

Right.

Speaker 11

They're undermined by all of this money coming in and going to outside actors.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 11

And of course, as you mentioned, the government capacity itself. So the Haitian state, right through these aid policies, and this has taken place over decades.

Speaker 5

Has really been outsourced.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 11

You've got about eighty percent of public services health, education and things like this handled by private sector actors and goos funded by development banks and things like this. This totally severs the relationship between the population and the state.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 11

You can't hold those actors accountable for those services that you're getting, and that really distorts the notion of a sovereign democracy itself.

Speaker 1

So where do you think things go from here? And do you have a sense of what the Haitian people would actually like to see?

Speaker 11

Well, look, I think you know, I certainly don't mean or intend to speak on behalf of the Haitian people, right, it's obviously up to them. I think there are a few principles that certainly I've heard, which is, you know, openness, transparency, inclusion in a process, right that involves Haitians sitting around a table and coming together with a solution, right, And I think these foreign imposed and foreign organized solutions directly undermine that.

Speaker 5

And so you know, we'll see how this.

Speaker 11

Plays out, right, and how effective they're able to do to meaningfully people's lives. But there is going to be a trust deficit from the very beginning with any government that comes out of an agreement or an imposition from outside actors.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 1

Did the paramilitary organizations enjoy any kind of popular support or they're just seen as violent killers or criminals.

Speaker 11

I don't think it's an extremely simple answer, right. I mean, I think to various degrees, some of these actors do have ties at least in their communities, right. I mean, this has been a context that's been building over years, with these groups fighting each other over territory, and you rely on them for protection, for any ability to move, you are relying on these actors, and so there's a certain amount of that built up. I don't think, you know, my impression at least is that anyone in Haiti is

looking for armed groups to actually take stay power. And I think there's an open question of if they are even after that. Right, Like I was mentioning earlier. These political connections I think are so key to trying to understand this dynamic. You know, we've seen import of prints. The last couple of days. Things have come down a little bit, just a little bit, right, They're really intense

attacks on government institutions have calmed down. The port control has been re established over it and things like this. People are moving about a little bit more. I think that's obviously related to these political negotiations that are happening right giving some face.

Speaker 5

Are are people going to get a seat there? Are they not?

Speaker 11

How are we going to react to this? And I think now today everyone's waking up. Okay, we've had this announcement from Henri, this new presidential council backed by the foreign governments. What is going to be their reaction? You know, we'll see. My guess, right, is that this alone is not enough to convince them to drop their fights.

Speaker 2

Well, it's been very, very insightful, and we'll rely on you again if this comes up, So thank you.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and guys, please check out the book. I've been reading it Aid State. It is fascinating, not only to understand, you know, more deeply what is happening in Haiti right now, but is a real window into US influence around the world. I guess is the nicey I could possibly say that, Jake, great to have you, thank you.

Speaker 5

Thank you, thanks.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's a pleasure.

Speaker 2

We'll see you guys later or this way the

Speaker 4

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