2/8/24 BREAKING: Special Counsel Says Biden 'TOO OLD' To Convict For Crimes, Pakistan Election REJECTS US Backed Regime - podcast episode cover

2/8/24 BREAKING: Special Counsel Says Biden 'TOO OLD' To Convict For Crimes, Pakistan Election REJECTS US Backed Regime

Feb 08, 202433 min
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Episode description

Krystal breaks down the bombshell Special Counsel report stating that Biden is too old to be convicted by a jury, and Ryan covers the Pakistan election where Pakistanis have rejected the US backed regime.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hey guys, got some breaking news for you. So the Special Council who was investigating Joe Biden over his handling or mishandling of classified documents has returned his report. And there's a piece of this that is not shocking. They are filing no charges, but there is another piece of this which is really wild, which the reason, part of the reason he gives for not charging Joe Biden is effectively that he says he is too feeble minded for

a jury to find him guilty at this point. Let me just break this down for you everything we know at this point, because it really is a very wild development. So this is from the Washington Post headline, special Council no charges for Biden and classified documents probe evidence of wilful mishandling of classified papers, but not enough to win a conviction. According to the Special Council, or read to

you from the Washington Post. They so Joe Biden carelessly handled classified materials found at his home and former office after his vice presidency and shared government secrets with his ghostwriter, but that evidence was not strong enough to justify charging him with crimes. According to a long awaited Special Council report released Thursday. The three hundred and forty five page Justice Department finding ends an investigation that has hung over

the president's head for more than a year. The report could prove to be a political liability, however, because it describes President Biden eighty one as a forgetful old man who kept notebooks and documents with classified information at home, a stinging characterization that will likely be used against him by Republicans. I think anyone who has seen him recently might think twice about their desire to have him in the White House again, based not only on that but

on his recent actions. Biden, in a written statement, defended himself as someone who has always taken seriously the protection of national security secrets. I cooperated completely throughout no roadblocks and sought no delays. In fact, I was so determined to give the Special Counsel what they needed that I went forward with five hours of in person interviews over

two days. Amid the US government response to an international crisis, Biden said, referring to the hamas October seventh attack on is I just believe that's what I owed the American people so they could know no charges would be brought

and the matter closed. Special Counsel Robert Hurr, who interviewed the President the White House himself, found evidence that Biden wilfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen, but concluded that evidence does not establish mister Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, hers team said prosecuting Biden would be quote unwarranted based on our consideration of the aggravating and mitigating factors laid

out in Justice Department prosecution policies. To secure a conviction, officials would need to prove to a jury that Biden retained the information wilfully. They go on to say that would be an obstacle because the jury would likely find Biden to be a sympathetic figure and a quote well meaning elderly man with a poor memory. The president of

the United States, That's who we're talking about here. Prosecutors also suggested might not have struck Biden as noteworthy that he was in possession of classified documents so soon after his time as vice president had ended. As if that is not bad enough, let me go ahead and pull up for you some of the specific parts of this report that mention the memory lapses that Biden apparently suffered

from during this interview. This is from Bronco Marcicic, who read through the report and pulled out some of the critical pieces that showed Biden's quote diminished faculties and faulty memory, according to the report, in both interview recordings with his ghostwriter and when they interviewed him, during which the report says, he had gotten worse. He could not remember when he was vice president, and he couldn't remember within several years of when his son had died. You read you these

sections from the report. Here's one piece he says. In addition, mister Biden's memory was significantly limited during both his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in twenty seventeen and in his interview with our office in twenty twenty three, and his cooperation with our investigation, including by reporting to the government that the Afghanistan documents were in his Delaware garage, will likely convince some jurors that he made an innocent mistake

rather than acting wilfully, that is, with intent to break

the law, as a statute requires. Here's another piece. Mister Biden's memory also appeared to have significant limitations both at the time he spoke to Zwanitzer in twenty seventeen, as evidence by their recorded conversations, and today as evidence by his recorded interview with our Office, mister Biden's recorded conversations was Wantitzer from twenty seventeen are often painfully slow, with mister Biden struggling to remember events and straining at times

to read and relay his own notebook entries. That's from twenty seventeen. That was some years ago, and they said that his memory had gotten worse. In his interview with our office, mister Maiden's memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended, quote if it was twenty thirteen, when did I stop being vice president? And forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began in two thousand and nine, am I

still vice president? He did not remember even but within several years when his son Bo died, and his memory appeared hazy. When describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him, among other things, he mistakenly said he had a real difference of opinion with General Carl Eichenberry went in fact, Iickenberry was an ally whom mister Biden sidon approvingly in his thanksgiving memo to President Obama.

Last piece here they say, given the intelligence and military officials President the tapists discussed, mister Biden should realize the notes did or likely to contain classified information, but take as in a hole. The evidence will likely leave jurors with reasonable doubts about whether mister Biden knew he was sharing classified information with Swannitzer, that's his ghostwriter, and intended

to do so. For these jurors, mister Biden's apparent lapses and failures in February and April will likely appear consistent with the diminished faculties and faulty memory he showed in Swantzer's interview recordings and in our interview of him. Therefore, we conclude that the evidence does not establish that mister

Biden will flay disclosed national defense information to Swantzer. So absolutely stunning that in this report special counsel from within Biden's own DOJ they are saying they did not charge him in part because he was too old and feeble minded to really know what he was doing. Was unable to cite even with several years when his own son Bo died. Biden team out blasting the report, saying, we're

glad you didn't charge us, but this was inappropriate. They don't say what was inappropriate, but we can all guess what part they object to here. Biden legal team blast special counsel's inappropriate report, saying that they were trashing the president. President Biden's legal team on Thursday blasted parts of a report by Special Counsel Robert Her accusing him of investigative excess that resulted in trashing the subject of an investigation.

Bob Bauer, Biden's personal counsel, said in a statement shortly after the report's release, that the public's findings violate well established Apartment norms, that it was essentially trashing the subject.

Quote the Department of Justice Inspector General observed only a few years ago that high profile investigations such as those of a president may be subject to scrutiny not typical of the average criminal case, but that does not provide a basis for violating well established department norms and essentially trashing the subject of an investigation with extraneous, unfounded, and

irrelevant critical commentary. The Special Council could not refrain from investigative excess, perhaps unsurprised in giving the intense pressures of the current political environment. Whatever the impact of those pressures on the final report, it flouts department regulations and norms. White House also pushed back, calling parts of the report inappropriate and inaccurate. We disagree with the number of inaccurate

inappropriate comments in the report. Nonetheless, the most important decision that no charges are warranted is firmly based on the facts and evidence. Again, they did not mention which part was inappropriate, but we are presuming it's the part describing Biden as a quote sympathetic, well meaning elderly man with a poor memory and conveying that Biden's memory had significant limitations. Guesses that that is the part of the report they find to be inappropriate and are objecting to. I don't

know what to tell you, guys. It is absolutely wild that this is where we're at, that these are the two candidates that we're faced with, that the Democratic Party shut down any and all possibility of having a democratic choice in the primary. You know, they claim to believe

this election to be existential. They claim to believe democracy is on the line, and yet here we are with a man who, by his own Justice departments accounting, is too feeble minded to even remember the basics of when he was vice president and when his own son died, or the basic contours of debates. Of course, this comes amid a rash of reports about and not just reports but video that we can all watch, of how much he is struggling on a daily basis to recount basic facts, stories, figures,

faces from his life. We now have two incidents within a week's time of him telling a story about some world leader and him naming two different world leaders who have been dead for years. We had another incident where he was attempting to update us on a hamas response to a ceasefire proposal, where he painfully struggled to recall the word hamas had to be sort of prompted by someone who was nearby. These lapses are common, but they're

becoming more and more and more regular. His team also and he also recently deciding not to do a Super Bowl interview sit down. This is the second year that they've decided to do that, but this year it would have been with a relatively friendly news outlet, And of course passing up on the chance to get himself in front of millions and millions of voters at a time when he trails often in the polls to Donald Trump.

So voters say overwhelmingly his age and ability is a top, top concern for them, and needless to say, this report will do absolutely nothing to alleviate their concerns.

Speaker 2

All right, Welcome to a special issue of breaking points. Pakistani voters went to the polls across the country today and I am kind of new to handling the different devices on this riverside live thing. So what am we gonna do. I'm gonna turn it over to you Murtaza Hussein, my colleague over at the Intercept, first to give us a little bit of background. We're also going to be joined by w Coast akhmatters of Pakistani journalists to talk

about the absolutely shocking election results so far. And then and then I'm going to play a little bit of videos that we've picked up from social media and also from my questioning of the State Department earlier today. So Maz kind of catch us up what's going on so far.

Speaker 3

So for the past couple of months, the Pakistani military, beyond that, even the Pakistani military has been working to effectively rig.

Speaker 4

The Pakistani elections.

Speaker 3

Of course, the INTERSEP we've done some reporting showing how the US was involved in deposing Imran Khan. By polls show the most popular prime minister in pax On, the most popular politician pox On, the former prime minister, and mister.

Speaker 4

Khan, you know, has been banned from the elections.

Speaker 3

His party has been more or less dismantled or mid efforts they dismantled them by the military. And yet it seems that despite all these massive roadblocks and impediments put in their way, the Pakistani Tarikians Office is called, looks set to win the elections, according to early polling results, and not just win the elections, but decisively win the elections.

So I think it's quite a resounding sort of message to the military that despite their attempts to suppress mister Khan's party, suppressed him personally, he's currently in jail, the people of Pakistan clearly have evident strong favorability towards him and his party, and whatever efforts they've undertaken to block his electoral chances or even Impune's credibility and reputation, they have not seemed to resonate with the people of Pakistan as we're seeing tonight with these results.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and the most blatant thing they've done, I guess has been you know, abduct abducting candidates to prevent them from even running and then also knocking down mobile service in the and in the Internet leading up to the election. But they also not only jailed the leading candidate, I Ron Khan, but effectively, like you said, dismantled his party. And so as we talk about these results, we're going to be talking about independents who are backed by the

PTI rather than PTI candidates will costs. Why why is that?

Speaker 5

Well, uh PTI has been actually banned from running as a party, so this PTI candidates cannot run as members of PTI and they're supposed to run as independents. So what we're now seeing, like results are we're saying seeing

the effects of that. What was intended initially. They wanted PTI to be off the ballot so that when results start coming in we do not see PTI victory decisively, we stay confused about which candidates are actually winning because because now they have independent in front of their name instead of PTI. So I'm looking at results like, out of four hundred eighty three that have currently come in, two hundred and eighty three are independents.

Speaker 6

We don't know if they're PTA, they're most likely PTSD.

Speaker 5

So overwhelmingly these independent candidates are winning. But one way to look at it is by giving votes to these independent candidates overwhelmingly against all other parties that were favored by the military. People have actually rejected those parties and actually favored independence, which are basically members of PTI.

Speaker 2

All right, that's that's important context for the question that I had at the State Apartment today for v Dant Patel. So I'm gonna I'm going to pull this up and then we can talk about what his answer, what does answer means? So here here this goes.

Speaker 7

Oh yeah, good question. The plimary results have iron cons party, I think at this point, with leading in one hundred and thirty six districts three times the next closest one.

We're now seeing reports in Pakistana. There's separate things. One the army is in the streets, the police are in the streets, are surrounding polling stations, and you're seeing a lot of reports and videos effort to change the election officials out a lot of concern that at number one hundred and thirty six by tomorrow morning in Pakistan be

pushed down lower. Separately, you're seeing also the surface in Pakistan attempt to kind of military connective officials to take the independence you are associated with PTI and treasure them to join other parties. So even though in one content party might win a majority after torture and Briberry, you could have a different government take powers when the putting stood up for free and fair elections, but pree entire

electing the one thing. But if you culture way to the majority after that, that doesn't that doesn't quite live up to kind of the values that were This seems like a pretty simbable moment in America. And the.

Speaker 8

Thing about preliminary results that they are preliminary, and I am not going to get ahead of any visual results. We're not going to comment or speculate further on what government like makeup could be or anything like that you would be. What I will just reiterate again is that we condemn all instances of election related violence, some of the kinds that you were describing that took place in the weeks preceding the election, as well as on election day.

Speaker 4

We also believe that these.

Speaker 8

Kinds of actions have affected a number of political parties across Pakistan. And we're also concerned about the steps that we're taking to restrict freedom of expression, specifically around internet and cell phone use. But again, I'm just not gonna it's real quick speculate on results or government maker lets.

Speaker 7

But let's say the pact, many people do elect a majority of independence associated with the PTI, But then after a bunch of back room negotiations which are accompanied by reports of torture, all of a sudden, there's another candidate that has a majority.

Speaker 4

Would that be okay with the.

Speaker 8

I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna hypothesize on a made up situation that you're just describing right now. We will at some point, I have no doubt that the United States of America will comment on the election official election results when they happen. But till then, we will defer to the electoral process we believe we take very seriously.

Speaker 2

All Right, we'll coss. What what was your reaction to to that answer?

Speaker 5

Uh, this is honestly disgusting At this point, because what we have to take intoto account what has happened on the Groundian podcast on they have died the legs and arms of one polt ticular party. And he just said that it has happened to a number of political parties, name too, that there's no other party that this has happened to them. It has only happened to one political party. And they have tied their arms and legs of this

political party. They have put people in jail, thousands of people, including the leaders.

Speaker 6

They have banned this party.

Speaker 5

Yet today we see this party winning in absolute like crazy numbers.

Speaker 6

And this is something inspirational.

Speaker 5

It is like it is about the indefeatableness of the human spirit. It's something like that. It's something epic that has happened to Pakistan. And then to steal this from Pakistani people who have resisted the military huntaw for so long, and who have fought so bravely and so amazingly using democracy and no violance, nothing at all, and now they have voted the people that they have chosen and this

mandate is about to be stolen from them. And all of these people who have stayed quite for two years and who have condoned this avoidance that has happened, and good pibout Christy. They will continue to do so. It will honestly be so disgusting to watch.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Mars, what was your reaction when you saw the same What do you think what should we draw from that?

Speaker 3

Well, he's clearly not very happy with your consistent questioning of him at these at these uh at these conferences. But I think it's interesting to draw a jextaposition between his response and the way they responding countries where they're similar or even less egregious or you know, vote brigging. It takes place beforehand, and the US Department, in the State Department is quite vocal about it. They're quite you know, enthusiastic and condemning those cases. He's so you know, cautious

in this case about saying that at the end. If you notice, he'sn'tven say that we take the results there the election process is legitimately since we take it seriously, it's impossible to.

Speaker 4

Say anything otherwise at this point.

Speaker 3

So I think, you know, unfortunately a lot of people in talkistan this what class was saying, you know, they do very strongly believe in the Marxis but all these roadblocks putting their way, and they're counting on because of the role that the US plays in Pakistan, is the facto part of the ruling compact in some way, the influence it has, and given the US's vocal support of the oxy vocally, they expect some sort of consistency and

some sort of reliability from the US government. Fortunately expect that it doesn't see be forthcoming. So I think that if it were to come to pass, that even after is very significant and I think shocking in many ways election result to come out this way despite all these roadblocks. If the US government sits quietly or even endorses an outcome which is clearly unfair and clearly unjust for the perspective of Circon supporters, I think you'll see a great dissolution.

You see that the US ability to speak the other contexts as well.

Speaker 2

And related to the State Department. I wanted to quickly share this New York Times article that was updated just maybe ten twenty minutes ago. It says here as a result, This is from the New York Times. The coverage of the elections. The results began to trickle in Thursday evening.

The Party of former Prime Minister Nahuaz Sharif, the military's preferred party of the moment, was still expected to win, but it not looked but it did not look like it would pull off the easy victory that was widely predicted. So to describe this earlier, I think it described them

as neck and neck. But this it's been updated even since then, So they took out the kind of neck and neck verbiage, but they left in was still expected to win, which to me is such a striking phrase because they might actually be correct, Like from the perspective of the State Department in the New York Times, regardless of the fact that the that the votes and we can put the the votes are so heavily in favor of the PTI at this point, the New York Times

and the State Department may still expect Nahuas Sharif to win. So cost setting aside who got more votes, what would you say about who's expected to win at this point?

Speaker 6

Well, Independent is not a party.

Speaker 5

If Independent was a party in Pakistan, it would be the biggest party in Pakistan's history right now the way independents have won so technically and all of the things that State Department says, and like the Pakistani government says, is technically true. Technically pml EN might be the biggest party, but Independence will they still have more independence than them, So they'll have to get all these independence on board, and that will usually happen with militaries.

Speaker 6

Coachion, thefts, bribery and all of that.

Speaker 5

So State Department will be able to continue will they will be continued to be able to say that technically pml and emerged as the biggest party. New York Times would like truthfully say that pml N is the largest party. But the context of that is that PTI has been banned, all of the PTI members are independents, and Independence has won.

Speaker 2

So how would they How would Independence actually go about forming a party? I assume they'd have to find a kind of rump faction of a party that they could

then all join with. What is the PTI strategy? Assuming let's pretend that they can get through the the overnight sin anagins and the torture and everything that we're going to see over the over the coming days, and they do emerge with a certified majority, Like, how do they enact that majority in the parliament without having a party like what who do they align.

Speaker 5

With when they can form their own party, or they can they can basically form a forward block within the PTA or this decision, the core decision that actually banned PTA is is in the process of being appealed. And if in appeal it goes and then PTI gets its symbol, BAG gets its party back, then bt might be able to form a party in the parliament if nobody is

able to get to them. That means that they might be able to vote for their own prime minister, and they might be able to vote for their own cabinet. And if that happens, BTF would it's really possible that they can have a party. So they're still in the game despite everything that has happened. And the major upset in this today's election was that PMLN did not win a clear majority and they would not be able to form a government. And now Pakistani Parliament is in any case, no matter what.

Speaker 6

Happens, it will be harmed.

Speaker 2

When I'm playing here with this footage of police officials who are kind of surrounding a following location, you're seeing tons of this from everywhere around the country. I can try to share a little bit more more of it. Oh, there we go. Say, I told you I'm not very good at doing this. Let me try again. Let me pull up a different one. Here's so, if you go to my Twitter feed, you go to uh, if you go to what Causes or Fred's w O r k s,

you'll find you'll find these videos everywhere. But it looks like it looks to be one of the most attempts to steal an election, you know, documented on social media. Here's here's somebody who's just been who's kind.

Speaker 4

Of been captured.

Speaker 2

Videos of ballot boxes getting stuffed. You have, you have ballots on fire, you have military figures throwing boxes into jeeps and right you know, riding off of them. Uh maz.

Speaker 4

Do you think that.

Speaker 2

It's Do you think the hill is too steep for the military to climb here to flip this election or do you think that nothing is kind of out of reach here?

Speaker 3

Well, the thing is they went to such extraordinary steps before the election to rig it with the internet shutdowns.

Speaker 4

You're a great article on the Intercept about it.

Speaker 3

Actually, all the ways that they've gone above and beyond to try to fix this election beforehand, not least what they did with in ron Khan yourself as well too, So you know, after the vote, now having that having strategy having failed so visibly, so hugely in no way, now there's almost these very comically extreme, the most ceiling

votes stopping balls, much of it capturing video. I think that the subtext of all this is that Cox and military has been cut flat footed by the way that ordinary people have been empowered by social mediament sense because obviously PTI US social media very extensively in ron Khan used extensively, and now you know, they have these sort of very unsubtle forms of manipulation of ballots, but people can record them and share them. So when everyone's seeing

what's happening, it's all documented. It's not very effective anymore kind of you know, implies more or shows more what's going on. So I think what may happen is that, you know, they still have all the guns in Pakistan, you still have all the institutional power. They may still be able to rig the vote in some other way by forcing you know, people to change parties, you know,

various different ways of applying coersion to do that. But I think what's going to happen that is if they're still you know, engineer and results at the game what they like. They're going to have such a crisis of credibility and lack of public consent because of all Pakistan's to compare democratic shortcomings, you need some critical mass of people who at least buy that this is a legitimate government.

And if you don't have that, in the military's case, it would be very difficult to govern over a long time. So I think what could happen in the long terms. You could see a return to the military rule in Pakistan, which just happened many times in the past. There could be consequences potentially in terms of sanctions from the US

and the international bodies. But you know, if the Pakistani military sees it between a choice of losing power entirely or becoming a prior and ruling directly, may choose a.

Speaker 2

Lot and will cause. I have to agree with you that watching people turn out in such force in the face of such repression was nothing short of inspiring. It It became totally clear that the Pakistani people had immensely more faith in democracy, uh than for instance, the State Department. You know, the the United States has been practicing democracy for more than two hundred years and what was kind of shown I think by the Pakistani people what democracy

actually means. And they went out knowing that there would be all of these you know, different elements of repression. Uh too too numerous and too absurd to even to

even get into. So as as you are, as you're watching these results come in, where where would you suggest that people go to be able to follow this because I know that people are getting really interested in this, in this incredible story of of resilience by the Pakistani people, But it's very defined anywhere where you can actually kind of follow it in a reliable way, So like where

do you go for your news? And where should English English speaking and reading audiences go where they can where they can follow it.

Speaker 5

Well, it's mostly on x dot com, Twitter, everything is there. Pakistani media isn't that reliable, but there are some websites that are collecting data. So the data that has come in so far has been somewhat reliable because they're coming directly though that data is coming directly from polling station.

Speaker 6

So if you go to Twitter, then there are some well.

Speaker 5

PTI account itself is a very good resource to follow about all the videos that are coming in because they have a huge network, so if you follow PTA official, you'll see all the videos that they have been collecting about rigging attempts and successful rigging attempts. You'd get to see those. And then there's a journalist, i Ran Yashan. I've recently heard he was kidnapped for five six months.

I think by the military. He was kept there. But if you searched Imran yas Hahn's name again, you'll see that he's still he's active again and I've heard that they probably might attempt to kidnap him again.

Speaker 2

So like journalists, courage fans who yeah he went through, Yeah he was.

Speaker 5

He was in custody for eight months. Yeah he was tortured. He was alone, there was he wasn't in police custody. Nobody knew where he was. So when he came out, he was quiet. He couldn't even speak properly. He was touttering for a month. And now he's able to write about things. So he's saying things again and he might be picked up. But this is the problem with following credible like famous people in Pakistan because they get picked up. So you have to rely on anonymous accounts and you

basically have to do your own fact checking. You have to collate your own data and see if it's correct or not. It's like very few resources available in bis not. But if you go to Twitter, you get you get some idea of what's happening.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and I guess last point I don't want to make uh is you know, thank everyone the editors, uh, fact checkers, producers over at the Intercept that helped us do the reporting on on the on the cable that you were talking about earlier Wi Coast. And there's no guarantee that this is that this is going going to hold but at some point I don't I don't think that the generals are going to be able to hold

back this tide. But this would be you know, the second kind of reverse regime change operations, so to speak, that the Intercept would have been involved in recent years. And you know, our colleagues down at the Intercept Brazil exposed corruption that had led to the jailing of Lula de Silva down in Brazil. He was freed from office and the Brazilian people restored him to the presidency. You know, we're in the middle of an epic moment here, but

we don't know where it ends. But it's certainly something that I think the Pakistani people should be should be proud of. Any any last words from from either of you that you wanted to you want to add.

Speaker 5

Yeah, I can add something America and American government says it values democracy and it backs democracy all over the world. We have clearly seen what Pakistani people want, what the

democratic aspirations of Pakistani people are. To continue to deny them is the United States and Biden administration would be thinking in a very short term to do that, because if they continue to deny these people their democratic aspiration, you're turning a whole generations of Pakistanis into anti American people, and that is not really that doesn't really work for

the American government. Pakistan is a big, major country, and eventually, if you can deny them, they're right for now, for one month, for one year, for five years, but eventually people will get what they're aspiring for. And when they do that, you don't want Pakistan to be like a second Iran where the revolution brings in a government that is completely anti American. So it is so important to

engage with these people. Their aspiration is not invalid, and it's so important to that United States government understands this.

Speaker 2

Yeah, very well said. That was what I was trying to get at my question with Vitant that this is a moment where, despite everything that the US has done, this is a moment where if they did recognize the democratic results from this election, I think that would go a long way to mending some of the defenses that they broke over the last over the last few years. But we'll see. We're going to continue to follow it. Mas Wikas, thank you both for joining me.

Speaker 4

I really appreciate it.

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