11/28/23: Bibi Rejects Two State Solution, Man Arrested For Shooting Palestinians, WH Blames Social Media For Economic Worry, Home Sales Drop, AI Breakthrough And Altman Ouster, Ireland Censorship After Riots, AIPAC Bribes Tlaib Challengers, RNC Funding Plummets, And Santos Spills On Colleagues - podcast episode cover

11/28/23: Bibi Rejects Two State Solution, Man Arrested For Shooting Palestinians, WH Blames Social Media For Economic Worry, Home Sales Drop, AI Breakthrough And Altman Ouster, Ireland Censorship After Riots, AIPAC Bribes Tlaib Challengers, RNC Funding Plummets, And Santos Spills On Colleagues

Nov 28, 2023•2 hr 56 min
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Episode description

Krystal and Saagar discuss Netanyahu rejecting Biden's call for a two state solution, suspect arrested after shooting of three Palestinians, White House blames social media for economic concerns, home sales drop to decade low, AI breakthrough and Sam Altman, McGregor investigated after Ireland riot tweets, AIPAC caught trying to bribe challengers to Rashida Tlaib, RNC funding plummets, and George Santos accuses colleagues of adultery and corruption.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

Speaker 1

What do we have ristal in Dave, We do a lot to get into a very latest coming out of Israel, both a extension of that temporary pause and also some indications of what is going to come next, So get into all of that. We also have the White House panicking over so called misinformation about the economy. Break that

one down for you. Some behind the scenes details about what may have transpired that triggered the temporary firing of Sam Altman before he was brought back at OpenAI says a lot about the future of AI in the direction that that whole industry is going in. We also wanted to dig into those violent riots that unfolded in Ireland's quite shocking and some of the untold details about what may have caused that outburst of anger and violence, So

we'll get into that. Also, APAK apparently extremely desperate to get Rashida to leave out of office. You now have multiple candidates who say that they have been offered twenty million dollars to fund a campaign against Rashida to leave, coming from APAC affiliated donors. To break that down for you. Have also got some news about what's going on at the RNC not looking good in terms of their finances.

Maybe they should talk to those other donors. And there's pay a lot of money flying around, and George Santos is going ham on.

Speaker 3

His colleagues, going out with a bank sort of.

Speaker 1

A Madison Cawthorne kind of vibes.

Speaker 2

Maybe he's telling the truth this time. Okay, this is this might be the most believable thing he is. With all of that, though, before we get together, we have our excellent merchandise that's currently on sale for the holiday season. We've got these cozy socks which I wear all the time. But of course we've got the sweater, We've got the ornament, we have the travel coffee mug, all of that, if you will, all of it available on shop dot Breakingpoints dot com or at a link just from our website.

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We're prepping, of course for the twenty twenty four election, which we're kind of in the middle of a lot more new focus groups and other new ideas and cool stuff that we're able to bring to all of you. So any of those buying merch or signing up for membership, giving a gift, any of those really does help us out a lot over here.

Speaker 3

But with that, let's get dis.

Speaker 1

I also want to say shout out to part who was wearing Oh Beautiful last night at Ryan Graham's book event here in the city and he looked fantastic in it, and yeah it was Wanda say.

Speaker 3

You know, I'm jealous because Kurt, you have a sweater before I have.

Speaker 1

I know that's exactly what I said to you. It looked great on him though. So all right, let's go ahead and get to what is, of course, very serious news. I want to start with this, even though we do have the news about the ceasefire temporarily extend. We're going to break that down for you as well. But as a way to set the tone for this segment, we've been talking about how Nanyahu is under tremendous pressure. Basically

everyone in Israel wants him gone. He's just been trying to hold on by you know, the skin of his fingertips as long as he possibly can delay, delay, delay, any sort of accountability to try to maintain his grip on power. We now have a scoop, this is from Israeli media about put this up on the screen about the case he is making to his fellow Lakud party members Lacud being you know, his right wing party that

he has been the head of for some time. He says he should stay in government because quote, I'm the only one who will prevent a Palestinian state in Gaza, Judea and Samaria, which is the name that Zionis call the West Bank. He says, I'm the only one who can withstand US pressure. He goes on to say it's because he knows Biden for forty years, which has the ring of truth, because Biden is so like relationship based, very similar to Trump in that way, and I know

how to manage American public opinion. Now, keep in mind that consistently, from the beginning of this outbreak of conflict, the one thing that Biden has always said is I'm committed to a two state solution. Afterwards, we've got to get to a two state solution. So here you have the head of government actively admitting at this moment not only is he not interested in peace, he is making an affirmative case that they should keep him in power because he will. He is damn short and determined to

make sure that Palestinians never have a state. So incredibly important context to keep in mind in terms of what may unfold and Gaza going forward, what the political dynamics are going to look like inside of Israel. And also, I mean, this is just thumbing the nose at the US president at a time when we've provided them with unequivocal and totally unconditional support, including comments that there are no red lines for their operation here.

Speaker 2

For me, that was the biggest takeaway because this is it's obvious. BB has said it many times before about preventing Palestinian statehood, about how the Likud party another should actually be hopeful that Hamas remains in power, because that's the perfect cudgel to say that there's no reason we should move forward with the peace process. But I thought the fact is is that he's willing to say this to his own party to try and save his own skin at the very same time that he's not an idiot.

He knows what we can't read or hit Google translate. We obviously can see clearly about what is happening. Don't forget either, Crystal. We have a pretty good visibility apparently into Israeli spy networks, because we had those Discord leaks, and one of the things that came out from those classified files, which we reported on here on the show, was specifically about our visibility into Mosad and their efforts to try and thwart Bebe eventually coming back into power.

So at a spy level, I'm almost certainly we're getting updates in the same way that we spied on the Ukrainians about like, hey, what are they actually saying to each other, and the fact that it's now spilling out into the Israeli press about what the end state here? It just shows you how the fundamental long term goal for bb Netchunyahu and for the United States, and really I think anybody who is legitimately pro Israel is just diverging to a point where it has to be untenable.

I mean, Bebe should have gone I think really the day after October seventh, or at the very least at the beginning of the war, to ensure real coalitional support inside Israeli society and to give anybody who's pro risual in the US.

Speaker 3

The unequivocal support that they would want.

Speaker 2

But the issue is that while they have that with the stated goal of US policy going all the way back to Bill Clinton and honestly even before that is a two state solution and has remained unchanged.

Speaker 3

It now actionably actionable wise.

Speaker 2

It wasn't a priority under the Trump administration, the Biden administration, or the Bush administration, let's all be honest, the.

Speaker 3

Same with Obama.

Speaker 2

But it still remains the thing that we're all supposed to be working towards. And if he is directly opposed to the desired end state as articulated by the American President and really by the American Congress, by all of the Western allies who are supportive of him so far, then why is he currently you know, getting the one hundred percent support from the US Congress and from that administration.

So he's putting them in a place where, look, you know, they can beat the drama of like we support Israel's ratchter defended himself. I think that'll last up until the end of the war. But you know, eventually the bombs will end. Eventually the military campaign has to come to a close. And at that point, if they're going to you know, already while they're you know, John Kerr has said there are no red lines.

Speaker 3

Secretary Blincoln has been like.

Speaker 2

There will be no mass expulsion from the Gaza Strip. There will be no you know, leaving to Egypt and never coming back. There will be no mass deportation. They are going to remain in Gaza and there will be a state. Now we're a long way away from that, but that is the stated goal of US policy. So for me, that's The big story is that he's laying it out that his only future is one directly opposed to US policy. In my opinion, US interest, which it always has been to have a two state solution.

Speaker 1

Well, I would also say it's countered Israeli interest, given that you know, this direction of denying any sort of a state and propping up to US. Has that led to security for the Israeli people. I think that's clearly

has not worked in that direction. And you know, there's a lot to say about this because you always hear this rhetoric about how there's no partner for peace on the Palestinian side, and of course that's always been the goal of NETNAHUO and people on the right wing of Israeli politics, which is the majority of the Israeli public at this point and have you know, been dominating politics, always say there's no partner for peace on the Palestinian side.

And you know that has some legitimacy, even though Hamas actually even Hamas has now at points accepted the nineteen sixty seven borders. But you can look at this, this is a terrorist organization like all of that. That's fair, okay, but this is pretty clear you don't have a partner for peace on the other side either. And there is such a fantasy version of Israeli politics that gets articulated by American politicians and American press. This is not a surprise.

This has been Netanyahu's goal for years and years and years. He stated it plainly. The continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank. Just ask that settler that Isaac Chattner interviewed that we covered here in the show, and she said, yeah, the settlements are because we don't want a Palestinian state. And she goes on to say, it's fair very simple to understand. It is very simple to understand because the more you expand those illegal settlements, the more impossible it

makes it to ever envision a Palingestadian state. The more you build up hum Us and the more you keep the Gaza Strip and the West Bank separate, the more that you make it impossible to have a Palestinian state. That has always been the goal of Netnyahoo. That has always been the goal even more so of his coalitional partners,

who are you know. In a lot of ways, this is something that Darrel Cooper of Martin made the right wing of Israeli politics has always been more honest, honestly than the left wing or liberal part of Israeli politics. They're very upfront about this as a subtler colonial project, very upfront about, you know, what we ultimately want to see, is gazin' suspelled from the strip, any final solution for

us to take back all the land. They are quite up front about their goals, and here in the US, American politicians just like put their thumbs in their ears and pretend like they're not hearing it and pretend we still live in this like fantasy land of the Oslo Accords and a quote unquote peace.

Speaker 2

Prop Yeah, so that's actually I think the big problem is most Americans as usual have a disneyfied version of basically anything that goes on abroad. If you want to look to what's going on in Israel, maybe you should ask people who's live in Israel. If you actually want to go to Israel, you maybe shouldn't go on an apac guided.

Speaker 3

Tour or your birthright.

Speaker 2

Sorry to break it to you, just going on birthright doesn't mean you actually know that much.

Speaker 3

You probably should spend some time there.

Speaker 4

Now.

Speaker 2

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I spent a decent amount of time and I actually know people who live there and also have spoken to a pretty wide array. And then also you look to people who have spent years and years of their life and you can what quickly emerges as a very dynamic complex, politically very split even religiously split in many cases, and ethnically split society, which is why it is always so difficult

to describe Israel like as a single polity. It's both a Jewish state, it's a sovereign state, it's you know, it's an economic miracle, but it's also a security like nightmare, at least for the United States and for the Israeli people.

So to break down really, I think this is what Daryl also brings out from the Martyr Maide podcast is he's like, look, the biggest issue is that you have these very small factions of the Israeli right and of the Palestinian right who have always at every turn resorted to violence at critical moments to derail the peace process

and inflame the tensions. And that is a deeply unfortunate reality, and it reminds you of the power of these single incendiary you know, even fringe eras of society which are able to use this violence to then flare things up

to a level where they make it politically impossible. You can also read the Hamas attacks in that same vein which is Hamas and the Palestinians were realizing and the pa everybody was open and honest about this, that the Abraham Accords and the normalization of relations between the Gulf Arab States and Israel was an existential threat because it meant that the Arab States would no longer even pretend that Palestinian statehood was a political.

Speaker 3

Priority for them. So what do they do.

Speaker 2

They carried out this heinous political attack. They inflamed the tensions of the Golf monarchies and of the actual populations, which are way more pro Palestine and let's be real pro terrorists than the actual Golf monarchs. And so now the monarchs are stuck in a place where they're like, we can't normalize relations.

Speaker 3

Our people hate you.

Speaker 2

And so to have them in a scenario where they're normalizing relations and there's like bilateral agreements and all that stuff, not even just in secret but out in the open, impossible now, probably for a generation at this point. So you have to always remember like what the meta context of this is, and that's where moving towards a Palestinian statehood and at least if you wanted to make that the goal, I think you would conduct your military operation very very differently.

Speaker 3

And same with the US.

Speaker 2

Part of why we are just stuck in such a rock and a hard place between our domestic political support for Israel and the geopolitical reality of what the future on the ground.

Speaker 3

There is going to look like.

Speaker 1

You can't lock people in a cage for decades and think there's not going to be some sort of response. And there have been attempts, you know, always where's the non violent Palestinian resistance? I mean, there have been real attempts at at the Great March of Return that happened that was met with you know, sniper fire and people being killed and massacred and their legs shot. That was

a genuine grassroots attempt in Gaza at nonviolent resistance. And so you can't think that you're going to lock people in what has been described by many as an open air prison and what has been described by some as a concentration camp and think that there's not going to be a response. Now as to the US, and I do want to get to the immediate news here in a minute. Biden likes to feign, you know, they're leaking

to the press. Oh, they're really trying behind the scenes, like he's really pressing baby and he's given them a hard time about X and Y and Z and trying to push more aid and et cetera, et cetera. This leak also reveals that any sort of gains that have been made here in terms of the hostage deal and the temporary cease fire, this didn't have anything to do

with us. This was all because of domestic political pressure and the grassroots movement and the energy of the families of the hostages, and the pressure that they applied from day one. Say hey, my family members are in Gaza and we have to bring them home. That's what he was responding to. And then the other piece of this is, you know, all this feigned impotence, like, oh, well, we

asked him really nicely, like we're really trying behind the scenes. Yeah, but you're not willing to do the one thing that would matter, which is to say no, you're not getting our weapons, you're not getting our money. We are going to you know, we're not going to provide you endless diplomatic cover at the UN unless you conduct this operation in a way that is consistent with trying to achieve Palestinian statehood and with trying to achieve the minimal amount

of civilian casualties possible. But you know, instead, the not just the words, but the deeds have been no red lines and unconditional support. The Intercept had a piece about how we lifted all the restrictions on our weapons stockpile. There's normally a process that involves, you know, really supposed careful determination of what weapons goes to whom, trying to ensure that they're not going to be used against civilians.

All of that completely lifted in this conflict. Let me go ahead and get to the very latest in the news. As I mentioned now a couple times, there has been put this up on the screen, a two day extension of the ceasefire as additional hostages are released. Qatar said mediators had secured that deal to prolong the temporary truce by two days. The US is welcoming that extension and said it would like to see the pause has extended

further beyond the additional two days. You guys will probably remember the deal here was initially fifty hostages for one hundred and fifty Palestinians were being held in Israeli prisons. For every additional ten hostages that Hamas was able to locate and release, they were going to extend the pause

for an additional day. The hostages, they go on to say here releases have received near walla wall media coverage inside of Israel, while thousands of Palestinians have gathered each evening outside off prison between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, letting off firecrackers to celebrate the prisoner's release and bolstering Hamas's political standing. So this is the absolute focus of at

times right now in Israel. But again to this question, I mean, the US is getting a little uncomfortable, you might say, with the level of civilian death and atrocities that have been committed here, and so there's a push for let's extend the ceasefire as long as possible. But the Israelis are very clear that this is not the end of their bombing campaign. Israeli Defense Minister, you havev Glant go ahead and put this up on the screen, says that it will be bigger. The fighting when it

resumes will be bigger and take place around the Gaza Strip. Quote. The enemy will meet first the bombs of the air force, and after the shells of the tanks and the artillery in the scoops of the D nine bulldozers and finally gunfire of the infantry troops. We will fight in the entire strip. So, of course, the initial bombing campaign was throughout the entire strip, but concentrated on the northern part of Gaza, which has now been effectively completely destroyed and

rendered uninhabitable. People are told to flee to the south. They're now being told to move to what is a very small part of the south for this expansion, planned expansion of the bombing campaign. As they've now said, Ohamas leaders have moved to the southern part of the strip and located in Conunis. So that is the plan for the military campaign going forward. Effectively no end in sight as far as they're concerned.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's right, And this just kind of brings us back to what we're talking about in terms of the political realities of the future. If we can put the next part please up on the screen. Can the Palestinian authority really govern Gaza after the war. This was written by Stephen Erlinger. He's a fantastic reporter. I've followed him for many, many years, the foreign correspondent currently working over at the New York Times. But what I think he hits on correctly is that a boss, the PA have

never had less political legitimacy than at this time. That the over the goal from two thousand and five onward to establish the PAS a legitimate governing authority mostly propped up by the United States and the international community, not really by the actual Palestinian people, and then you know, docilely accepted ish by the Israeli government has actually made it so that the entire generation that's grown up under them feels as if they are not advocating for their

interests and are instead either puppets or props of the West and over or docile companions of these roels, which I can understand.

Speaker 1

I don't think they just feel that way. I think that is the reality.

Speaker 2

I'm only describing how they would put it in the

kindest possible way. The problem, you know, and this was the dream really of Oslo to have legitimate political representation, and then the falling apart of that dream two thousand and five early onward, has made it so that the US dream of simply installing some sort of pa government over the Gaza strip really bears any question of whether the population would accept it, because many of the Gazans who now have been through this horrific ordeal, and while

they may not support Hamas, and in fact, you know, there's a lot of indication about Hamas support and all of that that it's not nearly as iron clad as everybody says. You know, Everyone's like, oh, well, they've voted them in seventeen years ago. I'm like, yeah, well it's been seventeen years. And they've also been rife with corruption, They've siphoned off aid for themselves, They've enriched themselves to the tunes of millions of dollars and built all of

these tunnels. The population, arguably nobody has suffered more than the actual Gossens who have lived under Hamas rule, many of whom are not fundamentalist Islamic. You know, they're not fundamental fundamentalist Muslims either. This is a very very different population. So put that all of that aside, they are and

any any sovereign nation wants legitimate political representation. And that is just where the big question of what can operationalize the wants and the needs and the desires of these two point two million which is acceptable to them and also acceptable to the international community, and that is it just does not appear to be what the pile stony

authority is. And then you run into the same Iraq problem, where any authority which is deemed acceptable to the West and or to Israel is automatically seen as a puppet

that will have no actual governance capability. And then people either don't show up to the elections or they support, you know, Islamic terrorism like the Sunnis did in Iraq, and they had no legitimacy in terms of the Iraqi elections, and then the only legitimately elected Iraqi leaders end up being people who are hopelessly corrupt and can only stay in power by giving the finger to America, even though

they ones who are pay all of their bills. We ran into this in Karzai, with Karzai in Afghanistan and his eventual successors. We ran into this very basically every person who ruled over Iraq all the way up until today. I think we're running into the same problem right now.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean Palestime, the PA basically cooperates with the Israeli security, and so in the West Bank where you have you know, repeated settler incursions and violence pushing Palestinians off their land, and the people who are supposed to represent there are nowhere in sight to protect them from this, Like, of course, how are they going to feel about that?

And so you do have this dichotomy of you'll see some polls that are like, oh, Palstinians overwhelmingly support Hamas, and then you'll see other indications to your pointing to Sagaa's like actually, no, they're very frustrated with Hamas because of their failures of governance and just like basic you know, ability to live your life and you know, be able to get food and a job for your family, et cetera. Well, those are basically they're only two political option, putting aside

a lot of smaller parties. So you've got either Fatah, which is you know, PA and is effectively an Israeli collaborator, or you've got Hamas. I thought this article was really interesting because they actually talked to Palestinians about how they view the political situation. They spoke with it. A housewife, a thirty year old housewife from Ramala that's in the West Bank, asked if the Palestinian authority could run Gaza. She said absolutely not. The PA is just sitting she said,

with many years without elections. The one who does for the people should be in charge of the people, she added, referring to Hamas. They also talked about you know the reason that Hamas gains support because if you look at support for violent resistance versus more moderate forces throughout Palestinian history, what you see is when peace is being negotiated, it's the legitimate possibility. You see support for the armed violent resistance plummet when there's an actual prospect of real peace.

So this article points out the failure to reach a negotiated piece has made the other obvious alternative, that of armed Palestinian resistance is really occupation, more acceptable and popular. Go on to quote a moderate Palestinian who is the president of Al Kud's University. From the Palestinian point of view, he said, October seventh, look like a miracle. This fortress Israel suddenly seemed vulnerable. This professor goes on to say that he abhors the violence that was perpetrated, but was

clear about the impact. Who is Palestinian leadership now it's Hamas, like it or not. At the moment, Hamas is seen by Palestinians as the foremost representative of Palestinian interests and why because no one else is. The PA does not figure in people's minds. Another prominent Palestatim Polster, sent his latest survey, not yet published, sixty six percent of pilstatings in the West Bank regard the PA as a burden. These are the people that we want to put in

charge of everybody. Everyone already hates them. Some eighty five percent went mak Muda Bas, who is the head, to resign, and that means more than sixty percent of his own rank and file in Fatah want him to go. So what they're saying is that one of the only possible potential political solutions would be an agreement to disarm Humas and actually bring them in as part of a more legitimate governing coalition, because the PA has no legitimate legitimacy whatsoever.

And that's all that is left. And in fact, if you put this next piece up on the screen, there are Arab leaders who are trying right now to get Hummas to lay down their arms. They're saying like, listen, you stand no chance. You may as well lay down your arms now before they are destroyed, before you are destroyed. And they also suggested that should Humas disarm, they could join the leadership of the PLO as a purely political party.

So this is an active conversation. There's one other piece, Sagger, that I want to mention before I get your reaction to all of this, which is, you know a lot of people say, oh, who could be the you know, who could be the head who has legitimacy among the Palestining people, who's a possible leader here? And the person that I keep seeing brought up is Marlon Bargudi, who is right now being held in Israeli prison because of

his involvement with the Second Intifada. But this is someone who has, unlike Mankmoudabas, he is not a mus and he has widespread support and legitimacy among the Palestining people. So if you're actually serious about a potential you know, post war government, he would seem like a logical potential choice.

Speaker 2

Problem with all this is it makes sense on paper, and if you were to ask me how this will eventually end up. Decades from now, It'll probably look like this. The issue is that through all of human history, it's the bitterest pill on earth to swallow, to look a man in the face who's tried to call you and who ordered people who.

Speaker 3

You know, is death.

Speaker 2

And the only really way to get there is a ton more death. And I don't condone it, but that's honestly, that's the reality. For the Israelis to accept something like that, they are going to have to go through a brutal occupation regime. They're gonna have to exhaust every other possibility force it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we a we would have.

Speaker 2

Even if we force it, I'm not sure they could accept it at this current moment or even in the next year or even two years. The memories of October seventh, ay are just going to be too big to swallow. But twenty years from now, in the same way, the US commanders who spent their entire careers trying to kill the Taliban eventually found I mean, imagine, you know, an insane situation where you have the commander of Scentcom whose entire job was to kill Taliban, then on the phone

with the Taliban negotiating an exit from Kabble. That's a surreal moment, but honestly, that's mostly how those things end up. Even in the First World War, if you ever look at any sort of negotiated solution where you don't have unconditional surrender, it just takes like millions and millions of people to die for people to even entertain the possibility of sitting across from people who have tried to kill you in the past.

Speaker 3

Obviously, that's really unfortunate.

Speaker 2

I however, though, in the same way that those those conflicts were easily foreseen as how they would eventually end up, this one also just seems very very obvious to me.

Speaker 3

It just seems that politically it's going to be incredibly difficult.

Speaker 2

It would take America to force it, and it would take Israel honestly suffering a tremendous loss either in soldiers or in economic costs, and possibly both before they could

entertain it. And of course Natanyahu would have to be long long gone ye before you could get to it, which is part of why I think it's you know, it's even worse because you just know how much of a Gordian knot that this is going to remain and around, I think all of international politics for honestly decades, decades to come.

Speaker 3

Well, i'll see how it can end.

Speaker 1

Unfortunately, I agree with you that it seems impossible to imagine, yeah, that out of this just I actually get a peace broad and we actually get a two state solution and you know, rights for Palestinians. But there's also no doubt in my mind that even if you're just if, even if you just care about security for israelis that's the direction we should go in, because you can't keep people locked up, you know, you can't keep them in this apartheid system in the West Bank with settler violence and

continued incursions on their land. You can't keep the indefinite blockade. You can't keep destroying them and mowing them and mowing the grass and these horrific wars and think that this is going to provide peace and security for your own people. At the same time, there's new reporting about internal dissent within the White House about the way that they have provided unconditional support to Israel, both publicly and through their actions.

As we were saying before, this was a really interesting and revealing piece of reporting. Put this up on the screen from the Washington Post. They start off by talking about how earlier this month, a group of about twenty distressed White House staffers requested a meeting with Biden's top advisors. The diverse group had three main issues they wanted to discuss, and this was with White House Chief of Staff Jeff Science, Senior Advisor and Needed Done Deputy National Secure Already Advisor

John Feiner. They wanted to know the administration's strategy for curbing the number of civilian deaths, the message it plans to send on the conflict, and its post war vision for the region. The aides, they say, listen respectfully, but participants felt that they fell back on familiar talking points and basically did nothing to alleviate their concerns in this

private meeting. There's some interesting details here about why Biden has gone in the direction that he's gone, and it harkens back to what Boebe was saying about a I've known this guy for forty years. I can control him. Don't worry about it. That's why you got to keep me in place. Biden went and visited Israel back in nineteen seventy three and met with then Prime Minister Goldemeier. And at the time, you know, Israel was a very

different state politically, it was basically left leaning. It was you know, much less of a sort of military behemoth as than it is now. Now it is this incredibly right wing state with the you know, the occupation war, vicious and brutal than it's ever been. But he still has this like nostalgic view of his trip there and meeting with gold in my ear. So that's part of I mean, this classic Biden, right, that's part.

Speaker 3

Of my life think. But it's not funny.

Speaker 1

Yeah, right, he has not updated his view since nineteen seventy three, is basically the view that you come away with. Biden aids are admitting that this is kind of a disaster. The division inside the White House is to some degree between Biden's senior longtime aids, they say, in an array of younger staffers of diverse backgrounds. But even top advisors say they recognize the conflict has hurt America's global standing. Quote, we are taking on a lot of water on Israel's behalf.

So even the people who are most inclined to back Biden's support of this war on Gaza, even they know this has been really bad for us. And there's one other piece here that I wanted to lay out that got a lot of attention. You guys might remember Biden called into question the debt counts coming out of Gaza, and you know, really trying to un the idea that there has been just mass civilian death in this indiscriminated bombing campaign, including seventy percent women and children who'd been

killed here. Apparently he has, they say, at times, wrestled with his own emotions regarding the war. On October twenty fifth, he voice skepticism about that Gaza death toll. He says, I have no notion about the Palace about that the Palestinans are telling the truth about how many people are killed. The very next day, Biden met with five prominent Muslim Americans who protested what they saw is his insensitivity to

the civilians who were dying. All spoke of people they knew who had been affected by the suffering and gods, including a woman who had lost one hundred members of her family, and he appeared to be affected by their account. He said, I'm sorry, I'm disappointed in myself, he told the group, accordinated to people familiar with the meeting, I will do better. Meeting was supposed to be thirty minutes,

ended up lasting for an hour or so. Even behind the scenes, even he admitted that he was wrong to call into question the rate of civilian death that is unfolding in Gaza.

Speaker 2

Well, I mean the thing is is, instead of trusting the Gaza health Ministry or any of that, we have just looked to what Israeli sources are saying. And these Raelies are like, yeah, it's between ten to twenty thousand. That's what these rerely military says. So even if you don't believe them, you should believe the others. And you know, my thing is, I instinctally am in a distrust most of what is put out by either of these parties.

But one of the things that reporting wise was Ryan Graham just going and checking the names of people who acclaimed dead and then going, I think that's actually a journalistic possibility, and.

Speaker 3

The others it's not sure why more people haven't looked into that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely, I mean, yeah, leave it to Ryan, just like, let me make this actually shack oh. Turns out it was accurate, if anything was understating the deaths. Yeah, and you can also look at past conflicts where the same Gaza health ministry run by Humas was accurate more or less in their accounts. So you know, we have history

to judge by. So in any case, it shows you that even within the White House, despite their bluster and their continued insistence on like staying the course with unconditional support, even the people who most support this direction know that in terms of world standing and in terms of the politics, it's been an utter disaster.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, you know, referencing earlier book that I had had here in the work of John Meyerscheimer, he called all of this a long, long time ago. He's actually done a couple of podcasts working on trying to get it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we'd like to have I really would like to.

Speaker 2

I haven't said with him because he was a a big, a big influence on my thinking around this subject and has basically on every subject for a long time.

Speaker 1

So at the same time, we wanted to give you an update out of Vermont. You may have been following the story already put this up on the screenect. A suspect has been arrested in the shooting of three men of Palestiniane Descent. This occurred near the University of Vermont. That suspect has already now pled not guilty to the shooting. Two of the victims here are in stable condition. The third is being treated for more serious injuries. The suspect who was arrested is named Jason Eaton. He is forty

eight years old. Made his initial court appearance. This is now being investigated as a hate crime. The FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are assisting Vermont authorities in that investigation. And basically what happened here is these three men who are from Palestine, from the West Bank. They were actually out walking in Burlington. They were going to one of their grandmother's house for Thanksgiving dinner.

They'd gone bowling, they were just coming back. Two of them were wearing the Kafia scarves, which are synonymous with Palestine and with the Palestinian liberation struggle as well, so they were easily identifiable as Palestinian or Arab. They were speaking, they said a mix of sort of Arab and English,

and this person came out and shot them. We now have a little bit of details about I mean, you know, everybody goes in scripts social media accounts to see what they can figure out about who this person is, and you know what possible motive you could potentially discern here from their actions. Put this up on the screen. In a now locked account on x, Jason Eaton described himself as a radical system citizen who patrols democracy misspelled with

a K, and capitalism for oath creepers. His banner image features bold texts saying libertarians want trans furries to be able to protect their cannabis farms with unregistered machine guns. Okay, I don't know what to make of any of that. His archive posts are apparently a little more moderated. He's got a lot of criticism of the IRS and the FED, describes himself as a libertarian, expresses support for both democratic and Republican lawmakers. He also had a substack, the one

that remains up. There is apparently some long dissertation on how restaurants can keep dishwashers employed. But there were a lot of previous substack posts that were apparently deleted. Some of them were anti vacs. There was one that was titled thought crime that Weis describes as an anti vax screed that labels COVID nineteen as a government conspiracy, the scale and the scope of this operation with the next level,

he wrote. They also were able the Daily Beast was able to talk to his mother, and there were a lot of headlines that were all about like how is mom. Sophy's a great guy, which was not a great way to leave these pieces, but anyway, she said they just

spent Thanksgiving together, saw nothing amiss with her son. Made no reference to the Israel Hamas conflict, which has of course been sharply polarizing, but she did say that he had struggles with mental health in the past and described him as a quote very religious person who regularly reads the Bible and finds connection to various religious figures. So that's kind of everything we know at this.

Speaker 3

That's what we know.

Speaker 2

I mean, we don't yet have a motive that has been released by Burlington PD. Really what struck out to me, Crystal, is everything about this and we were actually finally talking about this before the show. Anytime you're in a position

like this, you're kind of a magnet for schizophrenia. I can't tell you how many times I've received a scribbled of dossier's in the mail and other things with delusions of connections, and you know, I've seen it all from QAnon to others, and really what stuck out to me was this quote religiously reads the Bible and finds connections

to various religious figure figures. Nothing wrong at that per se, but it's also a textbook symptom of schizophrenic or schizophrenic type behavior, especially when he's got exactly when the mom says, you have mental health issues. Maybe he's been undiagnosed, but belief in conspiracy, the ramblings, unable to hold a job if he indicates he was a dishwasher, and the best way to treat them, these are exactly the type of people will float.

Speaker 1

He was Actually he was actually a like financial consultant in some way, and so he was giving advice to business owners in that stop Dac post. He wasn't coming from the perspective of the dishwasher. I don't know, I didn't read the post. That's just how it was characterized

in this piece. But you know, when you have three men college students who two of them are wearing the Kafia, just walking down the street talking to each other, going to Grandma's house with Thanksgiving, and someone comes out and you know, wantonly tries to kill them. Of course, this is going to raise questions about whether this was a targeted hate because of their race and because of their religion. So that's what it's being investigated as. And that's effectively

what we know about it at this point. And thank goodness, they're all three alive, although as I said, one of them is in really serious condition.

Speaker 2

One of them is a serious condition. Yeah, and will bear out the investigation. Is what we said yesterday. By the way, is you know, with all these things, probably just better to wait for information and to characterize it responsibly rather than just rushing to judgment, unlike Fox News with their Canadian terrorist attack that ended up just being a high speed car crash. Let's move on to the economy.

There's a lot going on in the world, not only of inflation of grocery prices and all of that, but of course around the election, because how people feel about the economy is usually the single biggest determinant of how they will eventually end up voting and or not voting. So for President Biden, the economy remains a problem. What have they done for that? Have they instituted policies or spent a lot of time talking and thinking about it. No, instead,

there is a new it seems effort. Let's put this up there on the screen. Actually reported by our friend Jeff Stein, where in response to a viral sixteen dollars McDonald's meal that is explaining voter anger at Biden, they say a White House official says, the administration is now working with TikTok creators to tell positive stories of Biden's economic stewardship, while also working with the social media platforms

to quote counter misinformation. And so anytime we see government working with social media platforms counter misinformation, we have course have to ask what in misinformation? And it brings me back to Ken Klippenstein's report about the Department of Misinformation within the DHS, where they would both they would try and label in the same bucket of misinformation stuff about

COVID having microchips, with criticism of the Afghan withdrawal. And you're like, well, hold on a second here, one of those may be misinformation, the other one is a legitimate political critique. And having watched now the viral TikTok with you, Crystal, what does the guy say, He goes, can you believe this.

Speaker 3

Here's my receipt of McDonald's.

Speaker 2

Here's a burger, a soda, and some fries that costs me sixteen dollars.

Speaker 3

Where is the misinformation in that? Nothing?

Speaker 2

And in fact, you know, I see these sometimes too, just because I also, I guess this is where my mind goes around. Like egg prices in the grocery store. That's not misinformation. And when people make reels or tiktoks or whatever about them, it's because they feel as I do. When have you ever seen eggs that cost ten dollars before in your whole life. I just saw it yesterday, ten dollars and ninety two cents. It's burned into my memory.

They're pastor raised eggs. To be fair, they're the most expensive of whatever ones on the shelf.

Speaker 3

But I'm skipping them.

Speaker 2

I'm like, no way, I'm not paying eleven dollars for twelve and that's almost a dollar an egg. That's insane. I mean the cheaper ones were like four bucks, I

think something like that. And the same thing. I mean, look, I understand the prices can go up, you know, over time, but we're talking about in the rapid, in a rapid period of three years, you saw a year over year inflation come to like forty fifty sixty percent in the case of some goods, especially whenever it comes to staples like beef, and especially like beef eggs, and then many other animal based products which for a variety of supply

based constraint reasons and inflation and all of that have just gone way up, combined with restaurant bills which have skyrocketed from both the input costs going up and labor. So the point of all of this is to say, it's not misinformation, it's a real concern, and actually just to show you what I guess they're trying to push back against.

Speaker 3

There was a TikTok that went very viral of a nurse.

Speaker 2

Who's living in Pennsylvania who described, I think of what a lot of Americans are feeling currently at this moment, which is why I touched a lot of people.

Speaker 3

Here's what she had to say.

Speaker 5

I feel like my husband and I are doing everything right. We both have good jobs. I'm a nurse. I'm a registered nurse who worked full time. He works full time. We just got paid this past Friday, right, we paid the mortgage, bought some groceries. Put some gas in the car. Guys, it is Tuesday, and we have like two or three to last does until next Friday. I don't I don't know what to do. I'm in school full time, I work full time. He works more than full time. He

works overtime every week. This isn't how it's supposed to be. Growing up, we were told, you know, go to college, get a degree, work to support your family. Here we are did that.

Speaker 2

Now what I feel a lot of sympathy for her, because, you know, let's think about some of the line items in this woman's budget. She's talking about mortgage. Now, she lives in Pennsylvania. It's not even a particularly expensive state, at least if you compare it to other people in the East Coast. I just looked it up gas There is three dollars and fifty six cents a gallon on average, which is quite high. It's on the higher end for

the United States. Then, really, what she mentioned she mentioned her schooling, and I think why that hits a nerve is she probably works in one of the best industries that you can work in in the United States, nursing. Nursing, there's a shortage of nurses right now. They get paid

all kinds of money. And what she's talking about is, I'm going to assume on her part, her and her husband a six figure income, two working adults, and I think it just bears really out the entire two income trap from that we Elizabeth Warren wrote about a long time ago, but of runaway inflation, cost for housing, for schooling, and then food, and you put those three cores of society together and you get a breaking point of like what that woman felt like and again, why it went

off and took viralis I just think millions of people feel exactly the same. And you know, it's not right. It's not like she doesn't look like a profligate spent. Look, we don't know our financial situation, right, but if what she's saying is true, and she's just you know, those are the major line items in there, I'm just gonna have to assume schooling is taking out a ton of that, and that's wrong.

Speaker 3

It's not supposed to be that way.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Well, I mean, even if you put the current inflation aside, school, healthcare, housing, and kids, how guy rocketed in costs and those are like the basic bedrocks of feeling like you have a stable, potentially middle class life,

and so yeah, people are stretch incredibly thin. And even if she's lying and she's acting and this isn't true or whatever, even if this is technically fake news, you can just go and look and look at the statistics and know that there are millions and millions of Americans who are working two jobs, or a husband and a wife for both working, and they're trying to raise the kids, and they're trying to do everything right and they're still

barely making it paycheck to paycheck. And you know, to get back to Jeff Stein's piece about the sixteen dollars McDonald's meal and the White House effort to combat misinformation about the economy, et cetera, et cetera, it really gets to this core debate of like, are Americans how what is the reality of the economy? Are Americans being influenced by social media to think it's really bad? Or is

there something real here? And if you just look at the course of the Biden administration, and I've said this a million times, let me just say it again. The beginning, some relief gets passed for COVID. If you look at the statistics in terms of during the COVID period, when you had this much larger social safety net that was erected, and you had child tax credits going out, you had direct checks going out, you had beefed up unemployment insurance,

et cetera. Guess what, those things really helped people. The student loan debt pause, those things really really help people. And the story of the Biden Ma instration has been deconstructing all of that social safety net. So is it any wonder then that people then look and say, I'm doing worse off now. Of course you are because all of the things that were helping you and that we're bolstering your income and giving you a little bit extra in your savings account, all of those things are gone.

And in addition, prices have gotten much higher. So to me, I'm like, it's no mystery. And I'm sure you can find things that are inaccurate that are being told online about the economy, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a reason why people feel the way they do, and it's not because they're crazy or because they are brainwashed. And in fact, you know, we have this piece that we can show you with some of the numbers here. Americans are getting very close to maxing out their credit cards.

Because this is one of the mysteries is people say, oh, well, we know that they're really like they're lying about the economy or they're fooled about the economy because they're still spending a lot of money. Well, perhaps this will help you solve the mystery. Bracking up a lot of debt to continue to spend that money. American borrowers are getting closer to maxing out. This is per the Wall Street Journal.

They say all of this highlights that some Americans spending habits might not be sustainable, at least when it comes to their credit cards. Some people might be starting to consume more of their available credit from month to month

could hit the wall once those lines are exhausted. Recent note published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston found that as of July, consumers with annual household incomes of less than fifty K whose accounts were delinquent we're on average utilizing eighty to ninety percent of their available credit. Of course, that leaves them with a tiny cushion, and across all cardholder income groups, as of July, the ratio of outstanding card account balance to the account's credit limit

was way was above February twenty twenty levels. So you have this indication that people are having to use more of their available credit and effectively max out their credit cards to be able to maintain what they have been doing over this time period.

Speaker 2

Yes, exactly, and that just means more keying up with the Joneses, and then more feeling like that paying the minimums and feeling perpetually like well.

Speaker 1

May not even keeping up with the jones is just being able to keep up.

Speaker 2

I think it's ahead about the wall probably makes it well, depending on the income strata that they were looking at. Here, if you're one hundred k and you're starting to lose use a lot more, although you know, I'm assuming that the to nurse and somebody else is working more than

full time is probably making somewhere in that range. Whenever you start to feel like that and the walls close in, that's whenever you make desperate decisions, and that's really whenever you can make life changing financial decisions that will have a massive impact on you for decades to come. This

is always be my biggest beef, which student debt. Most of the people have no idea what they're even signing up for, and many of their parents are you know, didn't experience the same cost and so emotionally can't really understand what it means to have twenty five years of debt hanging.

Speaker 1

Over you and you're told like this is the way to do it. Yes, like this, I get it to you're you know, to you making it and being in the middle class.

Speaker 2

I don't blame anybody involved except for the government and the debt preveyer. So it's not the actual people taking it out, although a lot of people do like to switch that. The overall lesson of this, though, is that when you're getting closer and closer to maxing out is you eventually do face some sort of penalty. And so the way the Wall Street Journal posts this is like, oh, it could be good for retailers because it's like, yeah, in the short term, but what about six months from now?

Speaker 3

What about a year from now, Like, whenever you're max to the max, what.

Speaker 2

Are you gonna do, maybe you're not gonna get any more credit? What about next holiday season? And look, I'm not naive, I know in America, eventually, you know, things usually move around and full blown collapse and all that stuff. But every piece that you look at at a consumer level, the government is like, you're doing better off than ever. Everyone just yesterday was talking making fun of Americans for feeling bad because yesterday Sunday was the biggest travel day.

Speaker 3

In the history of the United States. According to TSA.

Speaker 2

It's as if they haven't heard of putting a flight on a credit card, right just because you know it just maybe this spent three years locked in home and you have a relative across the country. Actually met some people like this when I was in San Diego for Thanksgiving, and they were like, you know what, now's the time.

And it's not necessarily because you have the money. It's because you've been separated from your relatives or your family, or you wanted to go do something for so long until you decide that now is the appropriate time.

Speaker 3

Money can be a constraint.

Speaker 2

But don't forget also about the trauma that I think a lot of Americans have been through over the last couple of years. So long wave of saying it's not misinformation, White House, it's an actual economic problem. Let's move on to the next part here, a topic I know so many of you are so interested in let's put this police up there on the screen.

Speaker 3

An indication at the very basic level, and a lot.

Speaker 2

Of what we'll actually talk about today about economic feeling and others is housing, and the housing market right now is just the worst of all worlds. You have high prices and high interest rates. You have also a feeling for a lot of people of being trapped because home sales have now fallen to a thirteen year low in October,

the lowest since two thy eleven. And from these economic forecasts, what you're seeing is that while there has been a slight dip in price, high rates have predominantly had the effect not of pushing down prices, but instead of locking home owners in to where they currently are and refusing to move.

Speaker 3

This has a lot of issues.

Speaker 2

One, if you are in the entry of the housing market, there's probably never been a worst time to try and buy a house with a high, high interest rate and with a high price. Two, So you decide to rent a couple more years than you would have in the past when you had if you had the down payment and the ability to buy, well, what does that do

That causes rent inflation to continue to go up? And lo and behold, every single time you look at the CPI, rent and housing inflation remains one of the top drivers of the overall consumer price index. So the housing crunch both at a price level in terms of the inability to sell, and then the massive pressure on the rental market, combined with if you're a developer right now, why are we building a house exactly if I can't sell it and if I, you know, have to pay eight percent

interest on my construction loan. So you have a supply crunch, a rent crunch, and a housing crunch all wrapped in to the same time. I honestly think this is like on par with the nineteen seventies, you know, level stagflation, where at that point it was unemployment that was getting all the attention. But here housing just floats under the rug. People just don't talk about it as much. And yet we have seen a tremendous amount of audience interest because I think this is probably at the top of so

many of your heads, especially if you're younger. You know, for a lot of the boomers, they've got what they need. But you know, and I guess that's why cable news and others would ignore it. And if you're rich, you know, none of this really applies to you. But if you are even upper middle class or lower, you're having a tough time out there right now trying to buy a house, especially with average home price in a major metro area has crossed half a million dollars.

Speaker 1

I'll never forget that poll that we looked at that was like people were praying for a housing crash because they were like, how else am I ever going to afford a house? And instead, the worst of all worlds, mortgage rates have gone way up and housing prices have still gone up, and so yeah, the market is just completely frozen. Rents are still wildly expensive, and people just feel like I will never be able to make it.

This will never be sustainable. I will never be able to be in like a stable position as a homeowner building something. And that's why I put this next piece up on the screen. You have so many people saying in a new Wall Street Journal poll that the American dream is dead. It's slipping out of reach. Fewer people believe that anyone who works hard can get ahead. Only thirty six percent of voters in this poll say that

the American dream still holds true. That is way fewer than the fifty three percent majority who said that just back in twenty twelve and the forty eight percent who set it back in twenty sixteen in similar surveys asked by a different polster. There was also a Wall Street Journal poll last year that asked whether people who work hard were likely to get ahead, and some sixty eight percent and actually said yes, nearly twice the share as

in this American Dream pool. Now, those are slightly different questions, but it shows you still there has been a deterioration even in the past year. The American dream, they say, seem most remote to young adults and women. Some forty six percent of men were actually like, okay, yeah, American

dreams still real. Only twenty eight percent of women said the ideal of advancement for hard work still holds true, as did forty eight percent of voters age sixty five or older, but only twenty eight percent of those under age fifty. And I would be curious to see, you know, under age thirty. What are those numbers? I thought, it's even lower than twenty eight percent who feel like the American dream is still even a possibility.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so to have it just flip completely in the span of us not even a single generation, but really in a decade is one of the more profound economic stories of all American history. There have been very few as transformative times as we're in right now. This is on par with the Great and really I think extension of the Great Recession and the attendant like social fallout. We had the Great Depression, which is really the only other previous time in modern industrial society that we've seen

anything like this, and we instead don't. We try to pretend and we live with the day to day, and of course, you know, we're talking about Israel and open Ai in Ireland and all.

Speaker 3

This other stuff. But this is by and large the single biggest.

Speaker 2

Determinant of how you're going to live your life, how you're going to get a job, whether you're able to get married, what it actually looks like, what your prospects are to the future, if you have and want to even work to anything in the future.

Speaker 3

Or like, why you.

Speaker 2

Would even choose to go into debt to get some schooling. You only do that if you think that you're going to come out better on the other side. And the same holds true for really any investment they're going to make, so nihilism has a really downstream terrible impact economically, and then of course on a personal and life level, it's just it's an awful way to live. And the way that that comes out in politics is the primal screams. You have Trump, you have Bernie, you have all these

like a flash in the pan moments. They establishment panics. It tries to co opt and all of that. But I think at this point they have failed so dramatically to grapple all the way from two thousand and one onward that they don't deserve a single ounce of trust anymore.

And it's really a generational gap between people who are our age Crystal and then people who are twenty five thirty years older who can remember the nineteen nineties, who were adults at that time and who were living large, whereas for the rest of us that's a distant memory. It's like something that exists in the past. I've been rewatching friends recently. It isn't amazing. It's like a time capsule. And I think one of the reasons why people love the show so much is, man, what an awesome time

nineteen ninety eight. They sad cell phones the stock market was going like twenty No nine to eleven, and just like the care free like nature in which you could just watch six people screw off at a coffee shop.

Speaker 3

It really does show you what America.

Speaker 2

Was like at that time as opposed to what's popular now for most people.

Speaker 1

I mean, it was an exactulate, exactly, an accurate.

Speaker 3

Individd why did it hit to the court?

Speaker 1

Well, and not only then, but it's it still Mistah, fifteen year old watched the whole thing and was obsessed with it and whatever you know on the American dream piece. There's a great book that I've mentioned on the show before, and we've actually had the author, justin guest on the show as well, called The New Minority, and it's a look at the white working class, and part of one of the sections, it's actually comparison of the white working class in the US in Youngstown, Ohio and the white

working class in a working class of London. And they actually found that in some ways the belief in the American dream was kind of insidious. And the reason why is because if you have this pervading mythology of like, if you work hard, you can make it, and it's all about you, right, your individual work, ethic and agency

and all of that. Then it leads people to blame themselves when like that nurse that we played earlier, when they're going through it and they're struggling, and I mean she says something, She's like, I did everything right, Like I did everything right, and there's all this shame wrapped

up in it. And what he found through, you know, like a statistical analysis, is that that belief, that persistent belief in the American Dream actually undercut activism because it led people more to look inward and be like, I must be doing something wrong. I must be a failure. And anyone can look at their life and find like, oh I shouldn't have bought that, or I shouldn't have made that decision, or maybe I'm doing this wrong, or maybe I'm doing that wrong. Everybody can do that right.

But it led them to focus inward rather than engaging in collective action to actually change government policy, which I thought was a really you know, a really interesting insight. So with regards to American Dream, something I've been thinking about.

We've actually had the author of this book The New Minority, on the show, which looks at the white working class, and he did an analysis comparing the white working class in Youngstown and the white working class in a suburb of London, and one thing that he found is that the idea of the American dream is actually, in a sense kind of insidious, because if the idea is you know, if you work hard, you can make it, then if you don't make it, the natural instinct is to say, well,

I must have done something wrong. And so in a sense, sagas sort of short circuits the type of collective action that could push the government to make different policy decisions. So on the one hand, while of course it's bad that people feel like they can't make it in the American dream is dead, I'm actually for establishing some new mythology that's not all about like if you don't make

it, it's your fault. You should feel shame, you should feel horrible, you should examine everywhere that you went wrong in your life, and instead looks at not only personal agency we can keep still, you know, hold open some piece of personal agency, but also looks at the manifest ways that elites and our government have completely failed the American people over decades.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think the story of the US just to tie a bone on. It is a battle between rugged individualism and then labor capitalism, and so the transition of the expansion West, and you know, it's like the California gold Rush. You can go out there, you can make it on your own. Oops, a bunch of people go bust.

And then we have like financialization and we have mass industrialization, and you have if anybody ever watched the TV show one of my favorite shows, The Gilded Age, the current season is actually really working through some of this where you have these titans of like Robber Baron type capitalism, but you also have union union officials that are emerging

in a movement at the same time. And there's a scene where one of the guys starts to buy one of the union leaders off and he's like, you don't really get what's going on here, do you?

Speaker 3

And whenever he goes.

Speaker 2

Back, and then that struggle is really the story of the modern industrial economy. It played out here, it played

out all across Europe. And the way that US and Britain really separated themselves from Germany and from Russia and others that went in a much more communist direction is that their elites recognized that you have to treat and pay people better and try their rights into law, and they basically acquiesced, whereas the Russian and the German monarchies were like, yeah, we're not doing basically any of that. And what happened to there if their society's collapsed, broke

down and they had massive revolutions. So if we don't want to repeat the mistakes that they made, we have to do what really I think saved capitalism in a lot of ways, which is what FDR and his predecessors did, is recognized those rights and incorporated both into the rugged American story as well as recognizing that structural factors are

of course going to impact everyday people's lives. And so anyway, I think the reason that we are currently in the scenario that we are is that we've swung much more back in that direction and have really forgotten, i think, a cherished part of our history which has been missing now for a long time.

Speaker 1

So last week we covered all kinds of turmoil over at open AI. Sam Altman, the CEO, he was out kicked down by the board, He's brought on by Microsoft, then he was brought back in Over at open AI, a lot of questions about what is going on and why is this happening right now? Raiter's got to look at a potential reason for why this action was taken at this moment. Let's put this up on the screen,

so they say. Ahead of open ai CEO Sam Altman's four days in exile, several staff reacher researchers wrote a letter to the board of directors warning of a powerful artificial intelligence discovery that they said could threaten humanity. This was according to two people familiar with the matter. That's what they told Reuters. That previously unreported letter and AI algorithm were key developments before the board's ouster of Altman,

according to those two sources. So open ai declined to comment, but they did acknowledge in an internal message to staffers a project called q Star. The open ai spokesperson said the message, sent by a longtime executive, alerted staff to certain media stories, without commenting on their accuracy. Some open Ai believed that q star could be a breakthrough in the startup search for what's known as artificial general intelligence.

One of the people told Reuters open ai defines AGI as autonomous systems that surpass humans in most economically valuable tasks. So we have a lot of details about what this alleged breakthrough is or even you know, additional reporting about

whether this is in fact accurate. But the reason that this potentially tracks Soger is because the divide in the AI community, as reflected in the divide within Open Ai, is between the tech optimists who are basically like letterrip, let's go make tons of money, let's just like develop this like crazy, let's see what we can do, let's push the boundaries here, and more of the you know, it's actually a lot of like effective altruists, but that side of the tech community that is very worried about

the risks of AI development, what it could mean for humanity, what it can mean for jobs, what it could mean for you know, potential dangers for the future. And with Sam Altman being brought back in effectively his side of the TI tech optimist piece one out and the people who want to just you know, profit as much as possible, put it in the hands of corporations like Microsoft and develop it to its fullest extent. Right now with a few guardrails, that side of the equation seems to be winning out.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I have complicated feelings on this because I understand that that's a useful framework. But the thing is about Sam and these effective altruists and others is that, yeah, they believe in the profit and all of that, but really what they believe is it's like responsible AI, and what they mean by that is pairing with giant corporations like Microsoft and regulation and control so that they're the

only ones that really get to use the technology. So I kind of find myself in a more anarchist position with AI where my deepest suspicion doesn't actually come through, you know, like, oh, they're going to replace us in

all this. My fear is exactly what's happening right now, which is total corporate capture and control, where effectively we're watching Microsoft develop the world's greatest office enterprise technology and all of the money being funneled into how to make word Excel and Skype calls and teams more efficient, which is in my opinion, the.

Speaker 3

Worst use of research dollars and other things.

Speaker 2

As opposed to actually helping people and so watching really what it is is the titans of Google and Facebook and Microsoft now basically capture the entire stream of AI developments and others makes me more worried about the future than any sort of AI breakthrough that's going to replace all of our jobs and other this. So some of this was captured in the CNBC interview where they talk here about how Microsoft sat Jawnadella really is the true winner.

Speaker 3

Here's what they had to say.

Speaker 6

The Golden child Altman is ultimately really in Microsoft's hands. And I think the way they played this was a poker move for the ages from Nadella, and I think as it plays out, you had the little kids playing checkers at the kids table in terms of the open AI board, and then the master chess master came in here and I think, right now it's Microsoft just that much more of a flex the muscles on AI. What you want to see from jasse and Aws, Okay, what

do you bring it? Show us the technology. How could I have confidence from a share perspective that you're not going to be potentially the third player behind Microsoft, behind Google. This is an arms race plan out and right now Microsoft and they're popping Champagne and Redmond because of the way the Della played this.

Speaker 7

Out cap profit structure that Sam instituted in twenty nineteen, the idea here was to cap investors profits at one hundred times their original investor investment, because he suggested that if OpenAI could get to so called artificial generalized intelligence, which is this sort of more sophisticated AI that we seem to be moving toward quickly, that it could be so powerful and so lucrative that he wanted these investors not to sort of hold all of the in the world.

In fact, he spoke at one of my events for strictly VC, which is now subsidiary of TechCrunch, and he said that if OpenAI manages to crack this particular nut, it could quote maybe capture the light cone of all future value in the universe. And that for sure is not okay for one group of investors to have.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so the future value of all who's going to own that? Open Ai and Microsoft? So really, again, let's look at who he actually replaced the board with. Let's put this please up there on the screen that Kevin Russwright wrote about AI belongs to the capitalists. You have freaking Larry Summers here on the board, I mean, like a cartoonish figure of quote unquote responsible corporate capitalism. And then you have a former Dropbox executive and Adam D'Angelo

of Quorra. So if you put all this together, Crystal, where I look at it is I am most afraid of exactly what's happening right now, where AI is becoming a corporate tool of white collar of not only white collar industry, but just like plussing up any sort of HR and other stuff, as opposed to funneling towards technology that would actually help most Americans in their daily lives. They're trying to focus on reducing HR costs and legal

fees on it. Listen, I support all of that, but should that really be the sole driver of our innovation? This is why I think some of the conversation around this can get really muddled.

Speaker 1

Well, there's a lot of different levels. Yeah, So the piece you're pointing to, you know, what are corporations incentivized to develop Their incentivized to develop anything that's going to be profitable to them. There will be many applications, potential applications of AI that would benefit humanity that would not be particularly profitable. Yes, those are not going to be developed,

Like that's the reality. On the other hand, what are corporation's left to do eliminate human beings and their usefulness and their are jobs because human beings cost a lot of money, and they take sick days, and they have babies, and they're complicated and whatever. So let's get rid of them. Let's get rid of their jobs. And so there will be huge incentive to develop AI that can enable the elimination of jobs. So that's the corporate piece that you're

pointing to. But you know, my feelings about AI sort of ranges from terror to comedy. I don't know if you guys saw there's a story about was that ESPN or supports sports illustry Sports Illustrated that got caught using these AI generated articles and they were preposterous, Like they were so bad. The writing was so weird and clunky. It was like an alien, you know, trying to write

about volleyball or whatever it was. And then on the other hand, you have this story reported out by The New York Times that the deployment of AI controlled drones that can make autonomous decisions about whether to kill human targets is moving closer to reality. Lethal autonomous weapons that can select targets using AI are being developed by the US, China, and Israel. Killer robots that can autonomous decide whether you're going to live or die. So and obviously for the

military industrial complex, that is very profitable as well. So that's like the nexus of both the terror of what this could mean for humanity and also the profit motive. So that's why it's troubling that the people it's not

just who was put on the board. The people who were taken off the board were the people who were, like you know, the War of the academics, the technologists, who were concerned with some of the direction, both in terms of the corporate capture and also in terms of what this could mean for jobs and what this could mean for the future of humanity. Those people are taken out and freaking Larry Summers.

Speaker 3

Brought Yeah, I know the Summer's piece is particularly offensive to me.

Speaker 2

And also though part of what I get the most skeptical about are all these AI safety advocates or I'm like, what are we saying here?

Speaker 3

Like what are you trying to program in here?

Speaker 2

And I see the government and Biden stepping in being like, we need an AI Bill of Rights, and I'm like, well maybe conceptually, but I don't honestly trust you to be able to implement this into the technology at all. I think there needs to be some level of democratic input. So I'm genuinely the democratic input. I mean that's what the government is.

Speaker 3

Yes, well not but the White House. That's the idea.

Speaker 1

White House the government is supposed to be where the democratic interusts.

Speaker 2

But I think it needs to come through Congress and not from the White House and top down. And actually my bigger fear is less about the government at least right now, because they're not doing anything.

Speaker 3

It's all these fake nonprofits that are out there being.

Speaker 2

Like we're developing the AI code about this, and that there's already been problems with chat GPT around political bias and all these other things. And that's where the again, where I fear is the concentration of AI in basically woke capitalism, where through Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Facebook applied almost entirely to enterprise technology and you're just going to have software rule your drone cubical life if you happen

to even make the cut for afterwards. And I genuinely think that is what the future of this is going to look like, as opposed to know all of our daily lives changing. I just think white collar work is the only thing which will marginally change, but in my opinion, probably in a worse direction where things are more automated.

But the hope that I have here is that in every case, like the Sports Illustrated and others, these things have turned out to be so clownish that it just reveals to us how in some ways it's so far away, Like we're not even close to AI being able to replace a human journalist.

Speaker 3

It would take five to maybe ten years.

Speaker 2

And we heard for years about car development. I talk about the self driving car thing a lot. Yeah, you know, automated autopilot is cool, but can it turn left really well yet?

Speaker 8

No?

Speaker 2

And it's taken them what Tesla's been around since two thousand and eight, you know, working on this technology and they have billions and billions of dollars that they've thrown into it, and they still haven't really mastered it. So and you know, we saw the Austin example about all those self driving cabs that come like this, this is a really really difficult problem. So I'm less worried as some.

Speaker 1

A military application to me is really scary because let's imagine, I mean, we can already see like what Israel is doing in Gaza right now, that there isn't a lot of concern for who's a civilian and who's a combatant, and who's a woman and a child, and who's an actual Hamas militant, et cetera. So while the technology may not be all the way there in terms of discriminating, they may not really care. I don't think that there's

any evidence that they would really care. And so if it's an autonomous drone that's murdering people, like where there's no chance of accountability, at least if it's a human operator, there's some sort of a chain of command, at least there's a possibility of holding some sort of human being accountable. If you have drones that are able to themselves decide who gets to live and who gets to die. And this is active, actively in development by US, China and

Israel and getting closer and closer to fruition. Yeah, that's something I'm very concerned about right now in the near term.

Speaker 3

I think that's fair.

Speaker 2

I just love humans are always going to have to

make some sort of decision. So this is if something I talked about with Mark and reasons, like at the end of the day, like humans are going to have a level of a tremendous level of input, and you know, we can think about that, what is there true difference between where we are right now, where Israel decides where to bomb and yet they use a jadam, a guided precision bomb, which where we pick the target and then the missile and computer targeting systems work to hit that.

Speaker 3

There will always be some level.

Speaker 2

Of decision making that gets programmed into it from what the actual want of the person is.

Speaker 3

So what truly separates that is it just that.

Speaker 2

We can deliver the bomb in a quicker manner because at the end of the day, like the human discretion and the political determination of how and what it will be used.

Speaker 3

I don't think that's going away anytime soon.

Speaker 2

Maybe the AI can roll this clip of me one hundred years from now and make fun of me while you know, my grandchildren are living in the matrix.

Speaker 3

But we'll see. Let's move on to Ireland.

Speaker 2

There's been a lot happening in Ireland that you might have seen this broken out over the last week or so, riots and violence exploding in downtown Dublin.

Speaker 3

Let's go ahead and play some of this footage.

Speaker 2

Absolutely crazy crazy stuff. This midir a Western European capital, and of course there's been a lot of i think media misinformation and reporting around all of this has even ensnared the k UFC King Connor McGregor, and so anyway, what exactly is going on behind the scenes here? So at a very very basic level, here is what happened. There was a stabbing incident which involved a foreign national, whoever, though had actually lived in Ireland since two thousand and three.

So let's please put this tear sheet up there on the screen, which from the Times of England, which actually has some of the best reporting that we've seen on the subject.

Speaker 3

Quote.

Speaker 2

The suspect arrived in Ireland in two thousand and three applied for asylum. His application was rejected, his deportation ordered, but he successfully challenged it and he now.

Speaker 3

Has full residency rights.

Speaker 2

There are suggestions that his mental health had deteriorated after he was diagnosed with a brain tumor about two years ago, and his friends had told the police that his behavior was changing radically afterwards. He was then arrested in possession of a knife in Dublin last May and appeared before the District Court in June. The outcome is unclear. He went on to stab multiple small children in Ireland. The

riots essensibly then were set off with anti immigrant sentiment. However, Christal and I we were talking about this and I think they have really mischaracterized a lot of what is happening here. Yes, a lot of this is downstream of immigration, but Ireland is facing a very very serious housing crisis right now, which has a huge part to do not only with Islamic refugees but also a lot of Ukrainians. So let's please put this up there. And I'm also

going to read some statistics. Quote ireland demography has been transformed in decades. A fifth of the five million people now living in Ireland were born elsewhere, and a recent increase in refugees from Ukraine and other countries has fueled a backlash amid concern over housing shortage and straining public services. The number that is housed by the state has jumped from seventy five hundred and twenty twenty one to seventy three thousand in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 8

Quote.

Speaker 2

Ireland has received more than one hundred and forty one thousand immigrants in the last twelve months through April. That is the highest total in Irish society since two thousand and seven, and the influx of migrants is driven an eleven percent increase in Irish population over the last eleven years, which has contributed to a steady increase in housing crist

in housing prices. So really, what I think this is crystal is a story not only of mass immigration, but of frankly Ukrainian refugees and other refugees from around the world that are flooding into Western Europe as these Western European capitals have to grapple with their tremendous social safety in it their Western liberal politics, but frankly disregarding and this is what I think the reason that this really touched here was their own domestic population, whose houses are

getting so unaffordable as they're watching foreigners get housed in state housing, as you have Irish citizens and others who are homeless on the street. That was like the core of the spark here, and I haven't seen that particularly well articulated in Western media as to what's happening. And we'll get to the crackdown and in the second if you want to comment on any of this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean and listen to state the obvious just is when we're analyzing what happened in October seventh, it's not a justification. And as we're analyzing what happened with these rides, also not a justification. But yeah, when you couple the highest homelessness that Ireland has ever seen, yeah, massive housing crisis, Ireland's they were one of the countries that got the most screwed in the two thousand and eight financial crisis and have in some ways never recovered.

So when you couple this, but I think the piece seems to be really central. You know, based on the analysis that we were able to read, and like I said, the very high homelessness rate, when you couple that with you know, a large influx of people from other countries, you have created a tinderbox in which, yeah, the easiest thing for people to do is going to be and for you know, cynical politicians and influencers and whoever is to blame the immigrants, and you know, it's classic scapegoating,

that's very common to see what unfolded here, and you know, and there was like misinformation about who this person actually was the context of actually the dude's been here for twenty years, by the way, was not in there whatsoever, but it lit the spark that explodes in these unbelievable riots that unfolded. Also worth mentioning that the man who disrupted the attack, who hit the dude who was stabbing children over the head with his helmet, was a recent immigrant.

Speaker 3

From Persia, from Brazil. He was actually thanked by Connor McGregor. So let's let me tie it in.

Speaker 1

Just to be clear. But but yeah, I think you know, it's it's we have had this idea of you know, the Ukraine War and that it's obviously beautiful that all these countries have taken in refugees, and we covered yesterday how the US is really central, I mean, the reason that this war has gone on on and on and on, and we can't deny the fact that, especially in a time when countries' safety nets are stretched, when inflation is tough,

when people all over the world are feeling very stretched economically, that this is the type of politics that oftentimes results.

Speaker 3

Well, I mean, I just looked it up.

Speaker 2

The average sale price of a home in Dublin is one point three million euro as of last month.

Speaker 1

And people feel like they can no longer afford to live in the neighborhoods where they grew up and where their family is, et cetera. They feel like, you know, and like they have no hope and all of this again not justification, but just to understand. These things don't come out of nowhere. And so instead of focusing classic like you know, sort of neoliberal political moved so, rather

than focusing on those core problems, well what should they do? Instead, they're going to crack down on the misinformation.

Speaker 2

And let's get to that, because this is what the response of the Irish government has been, which is, no, we don't need to maybe reconsider our refugee resettlement population, or we don't need to reconsider our housing policy. We need to crack down on hate speech, which is what incited these riots, which is why Connor McGregor is under investigation. Here is the Prime Minister laying some of this out as a response to the riots.

Speaker 4

In addition to that, I think it's now very obvious to anyone who might have doubted it that our incitement hatred legislation is just not up to date. It's not up to date for the social media age, and we need that legislation through. We need to through within a matter of weeks, because it's not just the platforms who

have a responsibility here, and they do. There's also the individuals who post messages and images online that stir a hatred in violence, and we need to be able to use laws to go after them individually as well.

Speaker 2

Got to go after the people who were talking about it's bs that Ukrainians are getting free housing when an average home price is one point three million. Yeah, that sounds like the right thing to do. Here is one of their Green Party senators. This is a very viral clip, but it really represents this ideology that's prevailed all throughout Western Europe about what freedom of speech actually means to them.

Speaker 3

Basically nothing.

Speaker 9

Take a listen when you think about it, all law, all legislation is about the restriction of freedom. That's exactly what we're doing here is we are restricting freedom, but we're doing it for the common good.

Speaker 3

You will see.

Speaker 9

Throughout our constitution. Yes you have rights, but they are restricted for the common good. Everything needs to be balanced. And if your views on other people's identities go to make their lives unsafe, insecure and cause them such deep discomfort that they cannot live in peace, then I believe that it is our job as legislators to restrict those freedoms for the common good.

Speaker 3

There you go. Safety ism in a nutshell.

Speaker 1

Sounds like a bunch of conservatives right now talking about anti semitism in college Cansas.

Speaker 3

No, I mean, not wrong. True, it's true. But here's the thing this is leading to now.

Speaker 2

Connor McGregor's investigation for this following tweet, let's put this up there on the screen. I'm gonna read it to you directly. He says, innocent children ruthlessly stabbed today by mentally deranged non national Dublin in Ireland today. Our chief of Police had this to say on the riots of the aftermath.

Speaker 3

Not good enough.

Speaker 2

There's grave danger among us in Ireland that should never be here in the first place. There has been zero action done to support the public in any way, shape or form with this frightening fact. Not good enough, make change or make way Ireland for the victory.

Speaker 3

God blessed those attack today. We pray that's what he said.

Speaker 2

And they're claiming that he glorified violence, and yet they're ignoring that he thanked the Brazilian immigrant. But Brazilian Irish immigrant who actually stopped the violence. He says, I don't condone last night's riots. I don't condone attacks on our first responders in their line of duty.

Speaker 3

I don't condone looting.

Speaker 2

Last night's scenes achieved nothing towards fixing this issue. I do understand the frustrations, however, and I understand a move must be made to ensure the change that we need is ushered in.

Speaker 3

That's what he said. What's wrong with that exactly?

Speaker 1

Even if he did say something wrong and heinous, terrible.

Speaker 3

Let's put that asta.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but then he still should be able to say those things. And it's such a dodge to just be like, oh, we're going to crack down on the misinformation, as if that's going to solve the underlying problems. I was just like, very similar to here.

Speaker 3

You don't want to admit the actual problem here. And you know, Iron's a small country. They got five million people. One hundred and forty thousand people is a lot of.

Speaker 2

People, and twenty percent of your population being foreign born. And I'll press the red button and I'll go to what Margaret Thatcher said of her own country. Europe is about history, America is about an idea. It's like, these

are very different populations with very different understandings of immigration. They, I think, behave in a completely responsible manner whenever it comes to refugee resettlement in all of this, and you combine that with their generous welfare states neglecting their own population. I mean, I just think, Crystal, the more I did research into this, I was honestly shocked at the way that it has been portrayed.

Speaker 1

It's when you look at you know, political science analyzes of countries with large immigrant populations. When things are going well, it's fine. You know, when people feel like I can buy a house, I can have a family, I can have a job, I can have a good income. But when things are not going well, then guess what again, You're going to look for scapegoats. And this is the

tale as old as time. So so in any way, in any case, the idea that you're going to fix it by like cracking down on social media and Connor McGregor.

Speaker 3

Is silly, not going to happen.

Speaker 1

All right, let's talk about some domestic politics here. This is stunning. This is brazen, even for the pretty brazenly typical corrupt state of American politics. You now have two two candidates who are right now in the Democratic primary for Senate in Michigan, who have been offered separately twenty million dollars by a donor to drop out, and primary Rashida Taled, who of course has come under incredible fire for her public stance in favor of Palestinians and Palestinian

humanity and calling for a ceasefire. Let's take a listen to We actually talked to this candidate and NASA on this show recently about how he was approached and offered twenty million dollars to draw out and primary Rashida to leave. Take a listen.

Speaker 10

I was offered twenty million dollars to withdraw from the senatorial race and run against my friend Rashida Talib. The pro Israel lobby will go to any link to remove anybody from the US Congress that has any opposition to their agenda and their total unequivocal support for Israel, good, bad,

or indifferent. We need to make sure that money is not the main catalyst to get people elected, because the pro Israel lobby is only tool, and what they use to threaten politicians is the amount of money they're going to spend against them or for them. America, let's come together and elect people who truly represent our values.

Speaker 1

So the other candidate was a gentleman named Hill. Harper put this up on the screen. Another Senate candidate in Michigan who Politico originally got this report that he was offered twenty million dollars to drop out and run against Rashida to leave. He confirmed the story, says, I didn't intend for a private phone call to turn public, but now that it has, here's the truth. One of apak's biggest donors offered twenty mil if I dropped down a US Senate race to run against Rashida. To leave, I

said no. I won't be bossed, bullied, or bought. One of the crazy things here too. By the way, an APAC deny, as I should add, he says, the group was absolutely not involved in any way in this matter. Our records indicate this individual has not contributed to APAC in over a decade. So that's their side of the story. But one of the really crazy things about this saga is that both Hill Harper and naserbay Dun, they both are like calling for a ceasefire and standing up for

Palestinian civilians being killed right now. And I think the idea is just you know, they know with Rashida to leave, that she is a tireless advocate, they know she's outspoken, they know she's been a leader in this moment of calling for a ceasefire. I mean, she's Palestinian American here, and so they sort of feel like, we don't care who it is, we'll take anyone other than Rashida to leave because of her dedicated commitment on the issue.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean I think that this is really just a matter of we do it because we can, and it's one of those where they want to take her out just to show that it is possible as well.

Speaker 3

To teach a US warning shot.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Absolutely, Well, I don't like Rashita to leave.

Speaker 2

I think she's actually incredibly I think she's done a disservice to her own Palestinian cause we could talk about in a different wildly disagree with Well. I mean, she's just conducted herself in a ridiculous manner and she's honestly just fulfilled, like, in my opinion, the worst characteristics of I totally totally.

Speaker 1

Being no, that is not true. I mean she's condemned. She's condemned the homoc atrocity. That's not what she's been standing up for. Ceasefire in Palestinian civilians. I think it's been incredibly courageous.

Speaker 3

The record on the hospital attack just fulfilled.

Speaker 1

The witch still still in dispute.

Speaker 3

By the way, what is the Human Rights Watch came out yesterday and claims.

Speaker 1

They bombed like every triaging hospital in Gaza.

Speaker 2

I am only going to say that she did herself no favors by doing that, and by putting herself out there and in my opinion, fulfilling the worst dreams of her critics. If you're a politician, you should know whenever you're going up against the wildest lobby in all of American politics, you should probably not just hand them on a silver platter. But look, that's her life. She can do what she wants. I'm saying I don't like her.

I think don't think she's done herself with any real service for a propole stand and cause.

Speaker 3

But I don't support.

Speaker 2

Primarying her or getting her taken out by a major lobby for a foreign government. To me, I find that particularly offensive. So anyway, I'm looking at this and APAC and all their influence, and it's just shocking to me, you know, with the John Fetterman case as well, to watch how they have co opted so many of these Democratic politicians in recent times, even people who had expressed different differing views, whenever they would come over the top

and help them in some of their primary processes. So Ryan's done a lot of great work on this. I know we've covered it here on the show as well. The Democratic Majority for Israel for example, coming in.

Speaker 3

I mean, I think, didn't they think that work against Nina Turner? Oh if I remember.

Speaker 1

So Ryan has all these details in his new book The Squad, which I recommend, and it's actually incredible how much reporting he has on Apak, Democratic Majority for Israel and other sort of allied groups. And he said when he was writing the book, he was like, I'm crazy for including so much of this, but it ended up being so central to shaping the Democratic Caucus and trying

to mold uniform views on Israel and Palestine. And so he has the behind the scenes story of Fetterman who sees all this money coming in to crush Nanna Turner. The first expenditures were actually against Bernie in Iowa. You know, coming in against Summer League, who's able barely to survive the onslaught. He sees all this coming in and he just goes and was like, tell me what I should say.

And they had drafted a position paper and they sent it in to Democratic Majority for Israel and were like how's this and they're like, oh, we'll make some changes, and they're like, good done, undusted.

Speaker 3

Here you go.

Speaker 1

We're going to this is what we're going to stand for now. Some are lee on the other hand, because she had previously sent some really basic I think it was during the Great March of Return, some really basic tweets in support of like, hey, maybe Israel shouldn't be killing innocent civilians who were trying to peacefully protest. She knew she was going to be a target. There was no way out of it, and she was open with Ryan about that, like in her head, if there was

a way of doing the pulling the John fetterman. It wasn't that she was like, oh, I would never do that. She was like, I knew it wouldn't work because I was already a target. And so yeah, this was determinative in a number of races, and they you know, secured the obviously very outspoken support now of Senator John Fetterman.

And now they've said that they're going to spend even more money going forward, and we see these incredibly clumsy and naked attempts and by the way, potentially illegal because you can't you can't just give a candidate twenty million dollars, and so if it's going to go through a super pack, you also can't coordinate with them. And then there's a question of whether these are like straw donations.

Speaker 3

Wait, I didn't even think about it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so it's also like not really legal to do this. But anyway, it just shows you how disturbed they are that there is any descent on the issue. And the other thing that comes through in Ryan's book, which is really interesting too, is this is the one time when the squad has actually really stood up to democratic leadership in President Biden. And a lot of it is because

you know, Rashidias leave. Obviously this is an issue she was passionate about Ilhanomer, obviously an issue she was passionate about. AOSC really didn't know a thing about Israel and Pales Diamond ad Many. She admitted to that of coming in

and some release same things. This wasn't like a major focus of her, but because the adversaries were so fierce, it really sort of hardened them in their positions because they know they're never going to win those over them over, so they're like, well, why not just say what I actually think since there's no way I'm going to keep these people from trying to primary me and destroy my political gres.

Speaker 2

Absolutely, and I actually, I mean I think it's a human thing. On any level, someone's gonna be like, hey, screw you. You're like, well, hold on a second, I'm maybe gonna think a little bit for myself. And if you're going to come out oppositional from the gate, I mean, remember that horrible what was it, the AOC firing line interview.

Speaker 3

This happened like right after she was elected. She looked like such an idiot. Yeah, throughout it.

Speaker 2

But to underscore your point, we have this tweet from Mark Pokan, the congressman who's from the Progressive Caucus.

Speaker 3

Let's put it up there.

Speaker 2

He says, quote, the truth is that APAK is a conservative org raising money from rich Republicans and tries to buy Democratic primaries with it distorts campaign finance law in the worst way. Their big money influence is toxic to democracy. Forget what they claim, look at their record toxic money. And that's extraordinary coming from a Democratic congressman. I'd be remiss too if I didn't mention Thomas Massey, who's been

putting them also on blast. Were running ads against him because he has a consistent policy.

Speaker 3

He is a libertarian where he says, I.

Speaker 2

Don't vote for foreign aid period and he said, I don't do it for Israel, I don't do it for Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't do it for Palestine.

Speaker 3

He's like, this is just not something that I do.

Speaker 2

And they're running millions of dollars of ads against him in Kentucky. So look, if anything, actually I support people coming out and breaking with APAC kind of publicly because I think they saved all this political capital and all

this and they blew it on the Iran Deal. It's the single biggest mistake they ever made because they put themselves in direct opposition with the President of the United States, put all this ideological space open for people who agreed with the Iran Deal and Democrats, and then they tarred them as anti Israel, and they're like, well, if you're gonna tar me as anti Israel, I'm gonna say.

Speaker 3

What I actually think.

Speaker 11

And anti Simitis, anti Sydrill that came a little bit later, and that came now, and now we have Rashida tale ilhan Omar and others, and you have an entire generation of younger people too, who you know, it drives me crazy.

Speaker 2

People are like, she's pro Hamas. Okay, as I just laid out here. I think she conducts herself like a fool. I don't think she's pro Hamas. That's a ridiculous statement. When you say you're pro Hamas, you say I support the terrorists attack of October seventh. So like words have lost meaning on anti semi anti Israel, anti Zionism, pro Hamas,

pro Palestinian. And they've tried, you know, with great success, I think, to use that in the pat for their tactics of the past in the modern age, though, people just see right through it. It's just totally ridiculous.

Speaker 1

Maybe, but that amount of money, because remember, it's not like when they're spending that money that every.

Speaker 3

Apple is about, right, it's about all this stuff.

Speaker 1

It's about whatever they can find to try to dislodge this person from power. So you know, I mean ilhan Omar. Actually they kind of messed up last time around because they didn't really spend a lot of money against her, and she narrowly won.

Speaker 2

I was going to say, so if I remember she ran eighteen points behind Biden in her distripation.

Speaker 1

I I don't remember the numbers she won, but it was much closer than they expected. And so a lot of these members who have supported a ceasefire, they have a target on their back. And you know, they're denying the one hundred million number that got reported of the amount of money that they're going to flood into these races,

but you know, it's not something to sneeze at. And clearly they're making an aggressive effort to try to make sure that there is no sentiment in favor of Palestinian statehood or criticism of the Israeli government or certainly you know, the current moment calling for a ceasefire. And it is remarkable because you remember ilhan Omar put out that tweer.

Remember it's all about the Benjamins with regard to APAC money, and she was centered for that, and it was the whole thing, and so to now see Mark Polkan, who's much less of like a radical than she is, saying effectively the same thing and potentially more polished terms. But you're right, the mask is kind of off and people now feel more comfortable calling out exactly what's happening.

Speaker 2

Carry all just now acknowledge it was like a temporary insanity and American Party.

Speaker 3

He's obviously right, and she's still right today. She was right.

Speaker 1

Yes, that's a whole justice for il Han. Okay, let's talk about the R and C funding, all right. So there was this moment in the debate. You guys probably remember the last debate that everyone hated, nobody watched and whatever. But the bate came out out of the gates swing in and it was a bit of an unusual target that he's selected here in RNC RONA Romney McDaniel were supposed to drop the Romney.

Speaker 3

Now Trump, we should the route.

Speaker 1

Okay, Anyway, here's what candidate for president of vager Amason only had to say.

Speaker 12

We've become a party of losers. At the end of the day, is a cancer the Republican establishment.

Speaker 13

Let's speak the truth.

Speaker 12

I mean, since Ronal McDaniel took over as chairwoman of the rn C in twenty seventeen. We have lost twenty eighteen, twenty twenty twenty two. No red wave that never came. We got trounced last night in twenty twenty three. And I think that we have to have accountability in our party.

For that matter, ron if you want to come on stage tonight, you want to look the GOP voters in the eye and tell them you resign, I will turn over my yield my time to you, and frankly, look the people they're cheering for losing in the Republican Party. Think about who's moderating this debate. This should be Tucker Carlson,

Joe Rogan and Elon Musk. We'd have ten times the viewership, asking questions that GOP primary voters actually care about and bringing more people into our party, getting the Democrats, and we've got Christian Walker here.

Speaker 1

I think it's preposterous to blame Roni McDaniel for the losses in Virginia, for you know, the losses on all the abortion ballot measures, the underperformance in the midterm. I mean, it's very clear what the big factors were here. But there is some interesting recording about something that you know

is going on behind the scenes. I don't think as a point, but anyway, put this up on the screen from the Washington Post with regard to the rnc's funding, Apparently the Republican Party's finances are incredibly worrisome to party members, advisors to former President Donald Trump, and other operatives involved in the twenty four election effort. They just disclose they have nine point one million dollars in cash on hand

as of October thirtieth. That is the lowest amount for the rn C in any Federal Election Commission report since February of twenty fifteen. Compares with about twenty million at the same point in the twenty sixteen election cycle. So they've got less than half of what they had at that point in twenty sixteen and about sixty one million four years ago when Trump was in the White House. The DNC has a lot more money, roughly double seventeen

point seven million as of October thirtieth. And as to what's going on here, there isn't a lot of insight. You've got a Tennessee RNC member who said, is just a revenue problem. We're going through the same efforts we always go through to raise money the same donor meetings retreats, digital advertising, direct mail, but the return is much lower this year. If you know the answer, I'd love to know what the staff has managed to tighten down and expenses to keep the party from going into the red.

Donors have not cut as many large checks of the R and C in recent years, and the party small donor program has also suffered. I wonder what your analysis of what is going on here because my guess is that, I mean, Trump is the Republican Party, so and we know the way that he really burns through his fundraising lists and exhaust donors with just constant, repeated requests, and

so I think he's burned their donor base. And also is just like it is him that is the party, so there's less incentive to then give to like the official party apparatus.

Speaker 2

I'll bring it back to where I was talking about with vague A. I think had a point in terms of partnering with NBC, which I think is stupid. But let's put that aside and let's think about the rn C as is constructed.

Speaker 3

You were right macro level, it's never going to change anything.

Speaker 2

But I know a lot of people actually worked at the R and C and they were very proud because of a lot of money that they brought in into they twelve is that they invested a ton of the Romney money and all the other things in that time for a voter outreach system which dramatically outperformed the DNCS similar technology in twenty sixteen, which again it's mostly because of Trump. But for these party apparatuses, it's all about infrastructure.

For smaller organization refer and candidates like Act Blue, it's been a massive success for Democrats, and Win Red has been ish, not not as good. I think what Vivic the legitimate point I think he makes here, and also that this shows is that bad stewardship of the party really is about investment at the party level, where you're able to help people in you know, BS in some

race nobody's ever heard of. You can put some money in at the last minute, you can give them technology, you can connect people with volunteers, and that stuff just costs tremendous, tremendous amounts of money. So Roni McDaniel has also, I think been a bad RNC chairwoman a because she hasn't investor hasn't been a to raise.

Speaker 3

Money properly be she can't pick a lane? Are you either pro Trump or not?

Speaker 5

Like?

Speaker 3

What are we doing here? Are we going to do?

Speaker 2

You know, we're endorsing a primary process. We're putting on debates which Trump is not showing up to. So in some ways she's oppositional to him, but she's also going to be supportive of him if he eventually becomes the nominee. She's tried to govern in this very like middling direction, and I think that has both led to lack of fundraising, lack really of also a lack of relationship management with Trump.

Where why don't we have like the ground apparatus? Where are we not sharing the mailing list and all these other things. I know this can sound boring, but the party itself has not performed at a good level. A lot of that is due to Trump, abortion, you know, all this other stuff, but in stuff that they can control. At least from what I understand, even the consultants and all these other people are very dissatisfied with her leadership.

Speaker 3

I may have that to you.

Speaker 1

It's entirely possible that she's been a terrible leader. But I also would say, like I think The biggest problem for them is probably structural. There's been a drop in grassroots fundraising across the board, Democrats, Republicans, you know, independent organizations. There's been a huge shop in grassroots fundraising. There may be a variety of reasons for that. One is people feeling really stretched. Another is they feel sort of like, you know, nihilistic, like why would I give my money

at this point? There may be a whole host of reasons, but that's kind of been an across the board phenomena in terms of the big donors. If you're thinking about it, like if you're a Trump person, you're going to give to Trump. If you're an anti Trump person, you're going to give to Nikki Haley, or you're going to give to Chris Christy. Why would you give to the RNC if your project is either Because Trump is a central dividing line in our politics and certainly in the Republican Party.

So if you're a pro Trump person, he is effectively the party that's where you're going to invest your resources.

And if you're an anti Trump person, like Ronna McDaniel, is effectively his you know, he supports her and supported her staying in as R and c chair, So it doesn't make a lot of sense to give the money there, and you know, and then you also have hanging over all of this, like all of the stuff that was happening in the House, and they can't get a speaker and they can't pass any legislation, and they're just sort of like in chaos and aimless and kind of a

mess over there as well. So it also doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in the organization of the Republican Party institution itself. But I really think the key thing, if I had to guess, is just the fact that Trump has subsumed the party. You know, he is a much larger like it's no longer about the Republican Party, it's about the person of Donald Trump. And so to me, that's probably the bigger story.

Speaker 2

That's definitely of course that overlays it. I'm more saying, like terms of what she can control. There was also an interesting moment last night on lower Ingram Show where ron DeSantis was pressed on Ronald McDaniel whether she should stay and he was tripping all over himself on this answer.

Speaker 3

Let's take a listen to that.

Speaker 13

We'll be able to say.

Speaker 3

I think there should be no change and they aren't aren safe. Actually it's working out. Actually, I.

Speaker 13

Called for change after the midterms. I was the only presidential candidate running that called for change. I wasn't running at the time. But my ewer wife, we've lost all these elections in a row. Why are we continue to do it? But here's the thing. As the nominee, I will be responsible for doing it, and I will get the job done, regardless of who the chairman of it is. I led the drive in Florida. I'll lead the drive nationally. We can do it. We just need leadership.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we need a Republican party that has a message beyond just you know, Biden bad. So anyway, I think what Laura is reflecting there is there is a lot of activist energy that I see that is against R and C. And the fact that DeSantis kind of has to pick and choose his way through interesting to me, very interesting.

Speaker 1

I just lasting on this. The focus on Ronald McDaniel just to me seems like cope because they don't want to say it's Trump's fault or abortion. They don't want to say it's abortion, like those things are uncomfortable because then you have to deal with, like, you know, a core part of your base or a core part of the party platform, or you got to deal with the guy Donald Trump, which almost all of them are afraid

to do. And so she's like, you know, a useful scapegoat here, and you know, you look at the fundraiser and you're like, oh, it's your fault. That must be the reason that we're losing. Maybe it's like tenth down the list of important factors in these elections, but a lot of it's this is a dodge to avoid dealing with the real central problems.

Speaker 2

Absolutely all right, let's move on to the next part. George Santos. He's facing possibly an expulsion vote in Congress sometime this week, but he is.

Speaker 3

Going out with a bang.

Speaker 2

He did a X of Spaces formerly known as Twitter, in which he really went off on some of his colleagues, alleging some pretty debaucherous behavior behind the scenes.

Speaker 3

Now, look, he's a proven liar. Should we believe him? Maybe?

Speaker 2

Maybe not, although I suspect this may be the truest thing that he's ever said.

Speaker 14

I have co a colleague who are more worried about getting drunk every night with the next lobbyists that they're going to screw and pretend like none of us know what's going on and sell off the American people not show up to vote because they're too hungover or whatever the reason is, or not show up to vote at all, and just give their card out like fucking candy for someone else to vote for them.

Speaker 15

This shit happens every single week. Reporters don't care to write about adultery anymore. And trust me, there's been plenty of this Congress and nobody writes about it anymore because Joey Santas is here. They should look at it this way. Look, with George being around, a lot of this shit's gonna go under the ruck because none of the reporters write about it anymore. Just putting that out there because I think it's relevant. Who has no real track record of trading.

This member has been able to outperform every single pointed measure of stock trading this year so far. I mean talk about insider trading, and there's so much a there's so much, there's so much proof to just pinpoint today and times of when trades happen and when information was bought in front of that specific committee. He is going to be undermined all throughout this election process by the

very people that should be supporting him. These people will undermine him, they will get in his way, they will redirect voters from him to others. Make no mistake, there is a lot of members in this body who hate Donald Trump.

Speaker 2

So this has been his strategy, is to wrap himself in the shroud of Trump and be like, I'm on Trump's side. That's why he shouldn't take me out as if it's why.

Speaker 1

Care so deeply about adultery.

Speaker 3

Yeah, he cares a lot about adults.

Speaker 2

That's why he had an OnlyFans account that he paid for with his campaign finance funds. My favorite is when he went what he went on TV and he claimed you didn't know what OnlyFans was, and then as exposed to have been having it out. Okay, certainly and interesting. Reminds us a little bit of the Madison Cawthorne event. Let's put this up there on the screen, don't forget.

Whenever he alleged that there were GOP lawmakers engaged in orgies and who did key bumps of cocaine in front of him, he drew a huge ire from Kevin McCarthy and others who forced him to apologize again as possible, he was telling the truth too. But all of this is in the backdrop of Santos facing a expulsion vote. Let's go and put Axios please up there where it currently looks like Santos says that he will not resign, that he will not resign, but is facing a vote

of expulsion. After that Ethics Committee report was released, which was the thing that Kevin McCarthy and Mike Johnson and others had held onto. Johnson said that he spoke with Santos yesterday and that they're, you know, looking at a variety of options. That he's kind of thinking about what he wants to do. But Santos has been pretty unequivocal that he won't resign. Of course, you know, it'd be pretty humiliating to get expel expelled from Congress.

Speaker 3

He would be the only sixth person in American history.

Speaker 1

This man is impervious to humiliation, That's true. Congressman tells everybody what they want to hear. Whenever they Oh you played volleyball, I played volleyball. Oh you're Jewish, I'm chewish. Oh you have a connection to the world trip to the nine to eleven. Oh my mom was killed in that attack. So listen for him from Madison Cathine whatever. We are all prepared to believe the most saalacious things

you have to say about your colleagues there. But you got to bring some receipts, okay, especially at this point, credibility is not exactly at a high water mark, shall we say, right at this moment. So you know, if you're going to spill the tea good, bring some receipt receipts. Tell us who.

Speaker 3

Take video, Yeah, go ahead, send me the videos.

Speaker 1

The truth, expose the truth. We're all cheering for you, buddy.

Speaker 3

Anyway.

Speaker 2

So will he get expelled or not? You know, we'll see. It remains to be seen. If the vote will likely happen sometime this week. I mean, the Democrats are almost one hundred percent on board. There have been some dear colleague letters that have been circulating of Republicans being like, hey, we shouldn't maybe we shouldn't kick him out. But the biggest issue for Santos is that even his Republican party remember this at home, They want him to go, They

want him to resign. The people who are in his office stay that they won't work with him, the mayor and other state that I absolutely refuse, so the local apparatus, the population, the Republican Party and now House leadership.

Speaker 3

And others. I don't see.

Speaker 2

I don't think he's gonna last if it comes to a vote, of which is very possible.

Speaker 3

I think I don't think he's got it.

Speaker 1

Looks like looks like the Swan song days for our great times with George Sands.

Speaker 3

Oh missus fashion and his slip filler, and so many other things he was maybe.

Speaker 1

I still don't know about that one.

Speaker 3

Maybe husband, whether it's true or not.

Speaker 2

There's so many, so many things among the mysteries about mister George Santos, as you said, America's congressman. Okay, guys, thank you so much for watching. I know it's been a long show today. We've got the merchandise on for sale. We of course have our discount going for our yearly subscription. We appreciate, we love all of you. We have a great counterpoint show for everyone tomorrow, and we'll see you all on Thursday.

Speaker 8

Shot shout didn't

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