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Good morning, Welcome to Breaking Points, Crystal. How are you doing today?
So far, so good? Still early?
It is the last Breaking Point show before the holiday.
Butt wait, there's more.
Yes, we do have a lot of good content for you guys posting over the Thanksgiving holiday, and premium subscribers are going to get early access to all of that. So Soccer and I were both busy yesterday. I recorded a long interview with Norman Finkelstein, asking him a bunch of you guys's questions that you sent in and some questions of my own, by the way, and Sager was busy recording a long interview with Jocko, also about Israel and Gaza. So we will post all of those early
for you guys if you are premium subscribers. If you want to get early access to that content, make sure you sign up Breakingpoints dot com. We're going to post a couple of little teaser clips too early in the week so you guys can get the sense of what those interviews are all about. A lot to get to
in the show this morning. We have updates on Israel's war on Gaza, including escalating risks of a potential wider war, and the Biden White House being pressed both on whether Israel is committing war crimes and also whether they are perpetrating a genocide, so we'll write that down for you. We also have some new troubling developments with regards to journalists both here and in Israel and Gaza. We have quite a rant from the one and only Cardi B.
Cardi for President. In my opinion, she went off on Eric Adams, mayor of New York. She went off on his budget, because she went off on Biden. She went off on the two wars that were tempting to fund and fight right now. So we've got some of those highlights and we will get into everything you need to know about Cardi B's thoughts on the world. We also
have a really wild new president of Argentina. We're going to bring in Ryan Grimm to help us understand how he came to power, what his appeal was, and what it all means. We've got Jen Hyuger, presidential candidate in the Democratic primary, of course, back on the show to talk about how his campaign is going. And we've got a little nice, lighthearted Thanksgiving segment. Some new polling showing that most people super not into talking to their friends, family, relatives, etc.
At the Thanksgiving dinner table about politics. That has probably never been more true than right now, when tensions and feelings about what is going on in Israel Gaza are so high, and we ask you guys to give us some thoughts from your Thanksgiving dinner table of whether you will be broaching political subjects or not. Let's go ahead, though, and start with some of the updates coming out of Israel.
And we had a number of very disturbing developments in terms of the risks of this sparking a wider regional war. So first let's put this up on this green Hesbola just struck and apparently destroyed this is per this video and other reports on the ground. Much of this is an Israeli military site called Beer Neet. It's near the Lebanese border, but it is in Israel. So this is a major cross border attack from Hesbola on an Israeli military location. This of course creates giant risks because Israel
will no doubt respond. What does that response look like? Part of the escalation is not only in terms of the size and scope of the attack, but in terms of the actual weaponry that was used here. And you guys know this is not my specialty, but what they said is that HESBLO forces carried out the attack using Burkhan short range rockets, which can have an explosive payload
of up to five hundred kilograms. This comes as Hesbela leader Hassan Masrela had previously announced this month that HASBLA forces had started to deploy those weapon systems for the first time. So this is emily the first time that we have seen that particular weapon being used in this conflict.
Yeah, and again to your point, you never know what the sort of spark that lights something even wider is, and we actually like are learning that on a day to day basis, which I think is partially what's so frightening about this news. You know, you just don't know what comes next. And we have troops, so what are we up to? Like dozens of attacks on American basis. So we have about ten bases that have been hit so far about sixty one times, and that's led to
about sixty one injuries. Some of them have been serious, some of them have been reportedly traumatic brain injuries. And that's how fragile the ecosystem is, not actually just in the Middle East, but around the entire world right now, Crystal, it's really touch and go every single day.
Yeah, so you all will recall Nzuela, the head of has BLAG, gave a much anticipated speech that I had a lot of people on edge about what they would be announcing. I believe this was like two weeks ago at this point, and it ended up being a lot of typical saber rattling, but no commitment to escalation. But as you see the Israeli ground offensive and bombing campaign continue in Gaza, obviously that continues the risk of escalation
on heswla's part and on the Israeli part. At the same time, that is not the only group that we have to be concerned about. Put this up on the screen. Okay, so what you're watching here is Yemen's hoo Thies taking over a ship that has some ties to Israel, so a ship hijacking in the Red Sea. They all apparently had cameras with them to record this takeover. They had previously warned that they would intercept any sort of ships that came through this area close to Yemen that had
any sort of Israeli ties. None of these individuals who are on board, by the way, are Israeli. Not that any of that would make any of this okay anyway, but you can see once again the risk of escalation. And let's put this next piece up on the screen of how this is already impacting, you know, travel in terms of our shipping lanes. Two ships divert course away from the Red Sea area after that vessel was seized
by Houthi's. Two commercial ships had to divert their course in the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aiden that were connected to the same maritime group whose vessel was seized by Yemen's Houthis, according to shipping data. Israel on Sunday said the Houthis had seized a British owned, Japanese operated cargo ship in the Southern Red Sea, describing the incident as an Iranian act of terrorism. The houthis having
ties to Iran with consequences for international maritime security. And so even the connection to Israel's a little little.
Far.
Is not that closely connected to Israel. But apparently there was a beneficial owner of this ship that at one point was an Israeli billionaire, So I guess that's the connect.
Right, So the British ship, the company that owns the ship is partially owned by an Israeli businessman and just being right now leased out by the Japanese. So again, you know, that's completely different connection than I think a lot of people immediately.
Suspected because Israel.
When the news broke, I don't think it was even clear how many's the what's the right.
Term when you are the distance from Crystal's not multiply degrees of separation? There you go degrees.
I was trying to think of the Kevin Bacon right, like you're a six degrees. It wasn't clear what it was, yes, and that was really scary.
Well, and part of what makes it scary is, you know, if this had been Israeli nationals on board this ship, and now you have an additional because we still don't know where this ship is. We don't know where these people are being on. I mean the people who were on the ship are being held captive now effectively. So imagine we had Israeli nationals or American nationals who were now being held captive by the Huthis and the potential
escalatory spark that that could provide. So all of these things are extraordinarily dangerous and they will continue to be extraordinarily dangerous so long as Israel's war on Gaza continues. You also have within the Defense Department here in the US put this up on the screen from the Washington Post, a real split emerging as they say Biden struggles to deter attacks on US troops. This is what Emily was
just referring to a surgeon. Attacks on deployed US forces has roiled some within the Defense Department, where officials, frustrated by what they consider an incoherent strategy for countering the Iranian proxies, believe responsible acknowledge the limited retaliatory air strikes approved by Biden have failed to stop the violence. There is no clear definition of what we are trying to Deter said one defense official. Are we trying to deter
future Iranian attacks like this? Well, that's clearly not working. And what they point to is the fact that since October seventeenth, US troops in a Rock and Syria facing the new daily assaults from rocket fire and one way drones, recording at least sixty one incidents and about as many injuries in that span. This is per Pentagon data that was obtained by the Washington Post. This is not something, by the way, that the US government is really advertising.
It took them being able to obtain this data to report out what the actual figures are. It shows the attacks of targeted ten bases used by American personnel who are spread across both countries. The Pentagon said the houthis destroyed a thirty million dollar US Reaper drone over the Red Sea. In recent days. US warships have in the past few weeks intercepted weapons fired from Yemen in the
direction of Israel. As the attack count has continued to climb, so too has the concern that is only a matter of time before one claims a US service member's life. And again, as long as this conflict is ongoing, as long as there is no ceasefire or even any humanitarian pause. You have risks of escalation all around, from the Houthis, from Hezbollah, from the West Bank. You have US troops
being targeted in a rocket Syria by these groups. And again, the possibility that a US service member loses their life in one of these attacks continues to be extremely high. And then what does that mean in terms of an American response. So this is something we all have to keep our eyes on because remember, Emily, there was that reporting that came out that even the US administration is
fearful that actually Israel wants that wider war. It's kind of an analogous situation to Ukraine, where Zelenski very much is wants that wider war to fully draw the US in on their side. There's a similar situation unfolding here, or at least concerns that there's a similar situation unfolding here, and comments by Netanyahu recently have done nothing to allay those fears. Let's take a listen to what he said in a recent interview.
We're destroying their infrastructure, their command, pulls their rockets, their underground tunnels, and we're going to win because we have to win. This is a battle of the forces of civilization against the forces of barbarism. And if barbarism wins in our part of the world, Europe will be next and America will be next, because the axis of terror of Iran, Hamas, Hizbala, the Jutis and their other minions will imperil the Middle East and then spread their barbarism
to the entire world. Israel is fighting our war, but it's also fighting America's war.
It's fighting your war.
So actively making the case that this is America's war something yes, indeed, and trying to stoke fears here that Hamas an organization that has never had an interest in global jihad the way that say al Qaeda or Isis did that that would be a genuine risk to us here. I mean, I will tell you that I think the longer that this conflict continues, and the more made in America stamp bombs are dropped on innocent civilians in Gaza, yeah, that probably does put us increasingly at risk.
The longer this continues, well, and the benefactors of Hamas and the Huthis and Hezbollah absolutely do have more global ambitions. They see the world in a difference. It's not so much just about Gaza for Iran, it's about Netanyahu might have better luck actually making a point about that. It's not just about Hamas, but people who have funded Hamas,
that support Hamas. And that's where when we see how our troops are fanned out across the Middle East and you have operations by Hesblah, you have operations by the Huthis, that's where I think you really see the risk. And Neta Naho, I think saying we're fighting your war is not going to go over well.
With the American people.
I don't think that makes anybody feel better about this conflict whatsoever.
Well, one thing that polling shows really clearly is that no matter whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or independent, there are widespread concerns about the US getting drawn directly into this conflict. And I think what you can see from these events and these potential sparks and these potential steps up the escalatory ladder is that those fears are far from unfounded. The longer that this continues, the more of
a risk of a wider regional war. And when you have someone like net Yahoo, who is the head of the Israeli government, who again even the Biden administration fears they actually want that wider war even if the US government wants nothing to do with it. That doesn't mean that things don't spiral out of control and we all end up somewhere that that we do not want to be.
And I think that's why your war language is especially grading here in the US, because that means we have lost control that if this is our war and it's being waged by Netan Yahoo in this way where he's saying, you know, you're not fighting your own war, I mean that's the implication of what he said, You're not fighting your own war. We're fighting a war on your behalf
here in the Middle East. Yes, you lose control, and you lose control over some major decision, and I know, you know we do have obviously, we know that we have a lot of control over how Israel is conducting prosecuting this war at the same time, not total control. And I think net Nyahoo saying this is not entirely a war being fought by you, even though it is your war, that doesn't go over well.
His language is also again very reminiscent of Zelenski, who says, you know, I'm fighting on behalf of civilized nations, on behalf of democracy. This is the case that he has been laying out too for why we should send him everything that he wants and we should back him no matter what, and also part of why he has wanted to draw us in more directly to his defense. And you know, it's very similar. It's a very similar case.
It's hey, listen, if we don't stop Russia here in Ukraine, the next they're going to move to Europe, and who knows where the Eastern you know, beyond Ukraine further into Europe, and who knows where it's all going to end. That's basically the same case that net Nya who is making here, and we should be very dist and we should listen very carefully through the implications of what that all means.
You know.
And actually it also reminds me a lot of David from and George W.
Bush in two thousand and two.
This conversation about obviously access and allies is not just about Iraq, and it's not just about now, but this idea that you know, in order to prevent future wars that are even wider, you have to fight a wide war. Now, I mean, and it is absolutely true that these groups are connected. There's no question about that, that they also share some similar ambitions, that they share similar enemies for
similar reasons. I think what we've learned over and over and over again over recent decades, let alone the last decade, let alone the last two decades, is that's not a wise course of action, this idea that you can just have.
A quote global war on terrorism. I mean, have we learned nothing? Clearly?
We have not. I think that much has become incredibly clear given our lack of ability to or lack of desire really to reign in Israel. And you know the fact that Israel is repeating and amplifying every single mistake that we made in the wake of nine to eleven. You know, we just brought up Ukraine, and one of the things that the US claimed that we were standing up for in Ukraine was the quote unquote international rules
based or right. This was the case that we made to the American people of why we should be all in with Ukraine because we have to make sure that the international rules based order stands, that we consistently apply these principles. Well, now when it comes to Israel, you we have US officials being pressed on whether effectively we are enabling Israeli war crimes and whether potentially we are also enabling Israeli genocide of Gaza. Take a listen to
these responses. Are you confident in Israel as following international law? John? Just yes or no?
There we are confident. That is our position that needs to When we have seen issues that are raised based on incidents on the ground, we raised them privately and directly with the government.
John.
Let me just you're saying, you're saying that Israel.
Judge and jury on this question.
Yeah, let me just follow up quickly.
You said Israel needs to follow international law. Are you confident they are following international law?
What I can say is it is not our position, certainly my position as a policymaker to play real time judge and jury on the question of any particular incident. When we see things that concern us, we raise them. We have done that during the course of this conflict. We will continue to do that. And again, just to restate it, it is our position that all countries, including Israel, including the United States, need to adhere to laws of armed conflict. Hamas, by the way, does not only not
hold itself to that standard. It openly boasts about its willingness and its reality of violating those standards. So that is the challenge.
But this war genocide is getting thrown around in a pretty inappropriate way by lots of different folks. What Hamas wants, make no mistake about it is genocide. Yes, there are too many civilian casualties in Gaza, Yes the numbers are too high. Yes, too many families are a grieving and yes we continue to urge the Israelis to be as careful and cautious as possible. That's not going to stop from the President right on down. But Israel is not
trying to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. Israel's not trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Israel's trying to defend itself against a genocidal terrorst threat. So when we're going to start, if we're going to start using that word, fine, let's use it appropriately.
Well, the Biden administration previously had no problem using that word. They used it without hesitation to apply it to Russia. So that's number one. And when it comes to war crimes as well, you now have every single Biden administration official when they get asked this question, or Democratic member of Congress. This is their response. Well, I'm not judging jury, so I can't say. But once again, when it was Russia,
they didn't need to be judge and jury. They were very, very very willing to call it what it was, call it war crimes. Here's Joe Biden himself being asked whether Putin is committing war crimes, whether he's a war criminal. Take a listen.
You asked me where I will beginning.
And Emily with regard to genocide. What he said was I called it genocide speaking of Russia's actions in Ukraine. Because it's become clearer and clear that Putin is trying to wipe out even the idea of being Ukrainian. The evidence is mounting. It's different than it was last week. I believe this was in the wake of the atrocities in Bucha. The more evidence that is coming out literally the horrible things that the Russians have done in Ukraine, and we're going to only learn more and more about
the devastation. So listen, I know these discussions of what language you use here and whether it's technically genocide or whether it's technically ethnic cleansing can get very tedious. But actually John Kirby has a point when he says, if we're going to start using these words, we need to start using them appropriately. And I would say we need to use them consistently. Now, I don't care if you're a normal person and you feel uncomfortable using the term genocide.
It's fine. That is fine if you think, you know, genocide equals holocaust, and I don't see what's happening here in Gaza as equivalent to that, No problem with that.
But if you're the president of the United States, you need to apply this term consistently if you actually care about any sort of humanitarianism, if you actually care about the quote unquote international rules based order, and what we have seen from the Israelis is not only the spoken genocidal intent, and we have some of those comments that honestly are not even the worst ones that have come out of this government, and also the clear actions and
Emily I looked up, you know, the definition of genocide per the Geneva Conventions. They say genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, or racial or religious group, killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction, and whole or in part, imposing measures intended to prevent
births within the group, forcefully transferring children of the group to another group. And so you have to have two pieces. You have to have the intent, which again we have numerous statements coming from the Israeli government all the way up to Netnyahu himself that certainly constitute genocidal spoken genocidal intent.
And you have not only killing members of the group, not only causing serious bodily or mentally harmed to members of the group, but this piece about deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction. All two million plus people in Gaza right now are under a complete siege. You're denying them food, fuel, water,
complete communications, black on. I mean, if that's not denying them conditions of life, I don't know what is so again, if you're calling it genocide when it comes to Russia and Ukraine or frankly, at this point, the barbarism of Russia is nothing compared to the civilian death toll, and the conditions imposed on all of the people in Gaza be consistent. Use the word whether it is friend or foe, because John Kirby is right, we need to use these
words appropriately. They need to be consistently applied, whether it's Russia, whether it's Hamas, or whether it is Israel.
Yeah, there's no consistency.
And the international rules based order is a rhetorical weapon basically that's used by the person who has the most power in the upper hand.
That's true.
You know, even when groups don't have the most power of the upper hand, it can be powerfully sort of invoked at places like the UN. So I think your point about Russia is very well taken. There's a complete lack of consistency that undermines our case about.
Civilization versus barbarism.
I'm not saying that case isn't broadly accurate, but that is not helpful if you're trying to make that case. And in fact, actually, Crystal, we have some clips that you know, show further undermining of that case of comments that have been made by people in the Israeli government.
Yes, so, yeah, you're Lapede, who is supposedly like the you know, moderate or liberal opposition figure in Israel, just made the case that actually, majority of all the people who have been killed in Gaza were terrorists. Let's take a listen to that, and then I'll tell you on the other side why this is such an issue.
You have to remember, Johnathan, many of the people who were killed were terrorists. The majority of people who were killed were Hamas terrorists. People are saying this number twelve twelve thousand people who were killed. Yes, this is the Hamas is an army of forty thousand people and many of them were killed.
So this is like the moderate liberal version of the case that has been made for many other Israeli officials that basically everyone in Gaza is Hamas. Everybody in Gaza is fair game, that there are no innocent civilians. And I'll tell you why I say that. Take a look at this next piece. Put this up on the screen. So according to the UN, roughly seventy percent sixty seven percent of all of the people killed are women, children,
and babies seventy percent. So when he's saying a majority of the people who have been killed in Gaza, are terrorists? Are the babies and children and women are they terrorists? Are they hamas? And so again, this fits very closely with the comments that we saw from Isaac Hertzog and from many other Israeli officials and from our own Member of Congress Brian mast here that effectively there are no
innocent civilians in Gaza. Therefore we don't really need to worry about civilian life here, and anyone is fair game, which fits in with the previous comments from John Kirby about whether or not this is a genocide.
And problems with the numbers, which certainly exist as they in any conflict, don't necessarily, by the way, mean that you can deny seventy percent civilian casualties seventy percent women and children casualties. So you can't jump from one point being true, which is likely that there are some problems with numbers, although in some analyzes it's that the numbers are too low. You know, there's some analyzes that will say, well,
and you hear this a lot from Israel. We've heard this from people in the Biden administration that the numbers are actually inflated. But then you have other people saying the numbers if anything.
Are too low.
So we know that they're squibbling over the numbers, and we know there's no way that these numbers would be precise. To take point A and then jump to point B, which is that imprecise numbers mean most of the people who are being killed are of course Hamas. This is what we talked about yesterday when we talked about Osama
bin Laden's letter to America. The point Sager made about how he justifies killing civilians from that perspective, which is that you're able to say, you know, they use the line that everyone voted for Hamas, which is not true, although there is you know, there is support for Hamas and Gaza. There's not denying that either. But also then that because people just exist in Gaza in a way
that's supportive of Hamas. Although if you also believe Hamas is evil and dictatorial, then it's true that they intimidate their citizens out of uprising. So there's just a lot of inconsistency. That's a great word I think that you use a couple of minutes ago. There's a lot of inconsistency in these arguments, and sadly, the people who are being caught up in the mix are civilians.
Yes, that's right, and also an attempt to justify not only the killing of civilians but of AID workers. We also have this clip of an Israeli government spokesperson who says, now, actually the World Health Organization is also Hamas. So we already had them making the case of the UN that un AID workers are Hamas. You know, the hospital is Hamas, all of the schools, all of the apartment buildings, this
is all Hamas. You know, according to yager Laped, majority of those killed, the women, children, babies, this is also Hamas. Now we have them arguing, this is an official Israeli government spokesperson that actually the World Health Organization is Hamas too.
Let's take a liston It is tragic and outrageous that the World Health Organization resisted Israel's calls for an evacuation before the start of the ground operation and is now calling on Israel to facilitate that evacuation under fire in an active war zone. We hold it complicit with Hamas's human shield strategy. We hold it complicit with any loss of life from its gross negligence, and we know that
despite completing a risk assessment about the Sheafa Hospital. That assessment still covers up for Hamas's abuse of the hospital, still says nothing about the hostages, and the World Health Organization is yet to condemn astonishingly Hamas's illegal exploitation of hospitals as human shields, jeopardizing their protected status.
And finally, in what is maybe the most extraordinary recent comments, and you know, rather than go on back and playing all of them for you, we've covered many of these comments before, coming out from you know, the Likud party, from security Cabinet members, et cetera. Put this up on the screen. You've got Israel's Finance minister saying they completely agree with this column from the retired Major General Giora Island, former head of the National Security Council, is an influential figure.
All right, well, what was in this ap ed that the finance minister agrees one percent with In part Giora Island rights, the way to win the war faster and at a lower cost for us requires a system collapse on the other side, and not the mere killing of Morhammas fighters. The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not shy away from this, as difficult as that may be.
After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer and reduce casualties among IDF soldiers. And no, this is not about cruelty for cruelty's sake, since we don't support the suffering of the other side
as an end, but as a means. So we support the suffering of the other side as a means out actively calling for severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip, which is where, of course they told all the civilians to flee to from the northern Gaza Strip, and pushing back on the idea that we should care at all about the well being of the ordinary civilians within Gaza. And again this is Israel's Finance minister who
says they completely agree with this view of the conflict. So, you know, it's really extraordinary to me Emily just the distance between the way that our leaders present this conflict and present the Israeli position, the Israeli approach, the Israeli plans for after they end the war, and after there is a ceasefire at some point, what happens next, and what the actual Israeli government is out saying very clearly in op eds, in public statements on Israeli television day after day.
Well, and this is like several weeks ago when there was a lot of talk of Dresden, right, there were all of the sort of representatives of talking heads that were going to the media. We're saying, you know, listen, we remember what happened at Dresden, we remember what war looks like. And it's very i think different from how
a lot of people perceive. And in fact, actually we just heard John Kirby talking about how Israel doesn't have genocidal ambitions towards Hamas that match Hamas's genocidal ambitions towards Israel,
and I think it's actually really important. I mean, one of the benefits of talking to you and Ryan and doing a show like this is you actually see some really dangerous flirtation from you know, when you're digging into stuff like this, you're looking at the rhetoric of people who are actually in positions of power in Israel, not all perfect, not all perfect, and you wouldn't you know,
know that from a lot of Western media coverage. And yeah, I mean I think that's really really deeply unfortunate, and it should be a wake up call about sort of if we go back to net Nyahu's saying, this is we're fighting.
Your war, fighting your war, Well, what is our war?
Are we in agreement with netan Yahoo on what that war actually is and how it should be prosecuted?
I think not.
I think the American people are certainly not in agreement with how that should be prosecuted. So yeah, I mean, and again, this is the frustrating thing. Are they probably right and we may disagree on this, but are they probably right that there's complicity at the World Health Organization and the UN in ways that are inappropriate in order to function in Gaza. That's a really difficult thing for NGOs, And we're actually going to talk about how it's difficult
for journalists in the next block. There are some obvious obstacles, and I think they're right that there has been complicity. There have been troubling relationships and connections with the World Health Organization in the UN as they've operated in Gaza over the course of years. That does not jump that You you can't just take that point and jump to point B. You can't go from A to B and
say that they're all their numbers are wrong. The World Health Organization calculating seventy percent civilian casualties are women and children casualties. That doesn't mean the numbers are wrong. It doesn't mean you can continue to deny the full reality.
The Geneva Conventions came out of the horrors of World War Two with this global idea of we can never we can never have war. Look like we're going to have war. It's going to happen. It's apparently an unavoidable fact of human life. But civilians in particular should be completely off limits. Civilian infrastructure like hospitals should be completely off limits, and there was some consensus around that. Now has it ever been applied perfectly? Of course not, of
course not. But when you pair our stated aims in Ukraine and our claim to really adhere to the international WUS space Order really be out there in the world trying to make sure every country is, you know, consistent with the rules of war and with the international rules based order that has been laid out post World War Two, When you lay that beside the comments from our officials, Oh, who could say whether they are war crimes. I don't really know, not really an expert, is it genocide? No,
I don't. I don't really know. I'm not really an expert. Well, guess what there are experts who are looking at If you're not an expert, I'm not an expert. There are experts that are looking at this that are saying yes, very clearly. When you have put Al Shifa aside, if you want to take, you know, the Israeli side of okay, how many other hospitals have been bombed, how many other schools have been bombed, how many refugee camps have been bombed at this point, how high is the civilian death toll.
It's not hard to see plainly what is happening and what is unfolding here. And so I don't think the US. You know, this was already a problem for the US after the Iraq War and that debacle. I don't think they can ever go and with a shred of credibility lecture anyone in the world about war crimes, about anything to do with humanitarianism, about the laws of war, about the international rules based order. It's over, but that's done.
That's part of the problem here.
And again this goes back to when we were talking about the bin laden letter to America. That's part of the problem here is not just the shattered credibility, but the insistence on that credibility in other parts of the world.
That is grating for.
People who are still you know, in I Rock or in Afghanistan. And that's why these groups continue to proliferate. That's why it's like whack a mole with groups in the terrorist groups in the Middle East is precisely because that credibility has been lost over the course of years, and then on top of it, we continue to try to throw around this credibility as though it's totally intact.
And again, this is what's frustrating.
It's that you know, and I know probably a lot of people in our audience disagree with this. I do think the United States has the moral high ground here, but thinking that doesn't mean that the United States is perfect, is morally perfect and morally immaculate. Thinking that the United States has moral high ground over another power doesn't mean that the United States is morally impeccable.
And so those things.
Are not They don't have to go completely together. And to not be able to acknowledge where those mistakes are being made, I think is I actually think it's amazing that we live in a country. In fact, I think this is part of where we have the moral high ground, that we can have conversations like this that are highly critical. So it just needs to trickle into the high profile conversations and not just being independent media.
Before this moment, I might have been able to agree with that, and might have been able to make the case. But when I see us day after day and Biden aggressively saying no cease fire in spite of the fact that two thirds of Americans and eighty percent of Democrats want to cease fire, in spite of the fact that, I mean, this horror of these babies done, five premature babies dying, the siege of two point two million people, denying them food and water and just the basics of life,
you know, enabling that funding that providing diplomatic cover for that. No, I don't think we have the moral high ground. I don't think there's any way that we could claim that versus anyone in the world at this point.
I disagree on that, especially when it you know, jexaposed with the case of Hamas, juxtaposed with the case of I mean, even in Ukraine, I still think we have the moral high ground. As bitterly as I disagree with our policy there, but the perspective that I think you just shared is going to be increasingly powerful with a wideswath of the American people, There's no question about it.
All Right, let's talk about what's happening for journalists both here and abroad.
Yeah, you know, this is a really interesting case.
Actually that kind of relates to what we were just talking about with the United Nations and with the World Health Organization. Journalists have a really hard time operating at GAZLA, which means that some major media outlets are using freelancers or they're sort of forced to rely on the work of freelancers. Let's put this first element up on the screen. News from yesterday, an NBC journalist was arrested by the Israeli police for cheering on Hamas during horrific terr attack.
That is a headline from National Reviews, So it's coming from the right. Just read a little bit of.
The story here. Quote.
An East Jerusalem based NBC journalist was arrested last week on suspicion of inciting terrorism and identifying with a terrorist organization in connection with several social media posts she published on October seventh, during the Hamas terror attacks. Marwat al Aza, a freelance producer who started working with the network shortly before the war began, wrote, in response to the kidnapping of an elderly woman, quote it's killing me. It's a black comedy. The old woman looks happy, a bit of
action before she dies, that's per reporting in Haretz. Sirens all the time, she wrote. In another post, the Jews are hiding and the Arabs are out drinking coffee on their balconies. She wrote in another post, I feel like I'm watching a movie where the directors Palestinian and the protagonists are from Gaza. Now, police, according to National Reviews, hold the Jerusalem Magistrate Court that the posts were quote
inciting and glorifying the horrible acts committed against civilians. As the Jerusalem Post has reported, authorities say that she is cooperating with police, and she admitted to writing the posts. She actually quote arrived ready for arrest, according to the Jerusalem Post report, Now we can go to the next element because this is not the only case that's been happening with you know, you could call it in this case,
there's a claim that this is cheering on Hamas. But in the case of this La Time story, which continues to play out, this is a Seamophore headline. If you're watching, you see it up on the screen. The La Times blocked reporters who signed an open letter criticizing Israel from covering Gaza, which is kind of an interesting and crystal We can get into this conversation about media ethics that
this broaches. But as Semaphore puts it, the La Times has prohibited staff from covering the Gaza war for at least three months if they signed a strongly worded open letter criticizing Israel's military operations in the region. So this is a letter people probably remember it actually from earlier
this month. It called on newsrooms to use language including quote apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide when referring to the Israeli bombardment of Gaza to people with knowledge of the situation told Semaphor that staffers who signed the letter have been told by the papers management that they will not be able to cover the conflict in any way for at least two months. So that comes from two sources.
To Semaphore, we have one more story here as well, and this one is if people have been following the work of this Palestinian poet, the sad news is he has been taken from his family and detained in Gaza. He's in IDF custody. Masab Abu Taha poet. This is an element from the New Yorker. The New Yorker had published had published this at masab abuteo Ha.
So had the Nation.
I actually went and read some of his poetry last night, Crystal. It's really wonderful.
But another.
Artist in this case, in IDF custody in detention, actually had written this war. This is actually you can see on the screen again if you're watching when the warren Gaza started, My family fled to the Jabalia refugee camp.
Then Israel started bombing the camp. So it's a first person.
Essay about what it was like to be in Jabaaliah. It's a beautiful writing. Actually, whatever whatever side you're on
in this, it's beautiful writing. And the broader I think questions here, Crystal are about how Western media outlets are able to cover this case study on the or are able to cover this story with the case study in the first situation reminding a lot of people of The New York Times rehiring that freelancer who had posted in twenty eighteen, I love Hitler, et cetera, et cetera, and there had been some other cases of that too, because you're relying on freely answers in Gaza, and there's obviously
support for Hamas in Gaza.
So it creates this strained situation.
For Western media outlets that aren't really able to go into Gaza and have a hard time doing independent coverage. As we were talking about yesterday when they were just following the idef through tunnels and CNN just taking the ideas a narrative and running with it like it was the gospel. That's extremely difficult. That's going to continue to
be extremely difficult for Western media outlets. On the other hand, the scene before story is just crazy to me because and even as somebody who disagrees with the letter saying that Western media outlets should be using ethnic cleansing and apartheid and that kind of genocide and that kind of language and their coverage, because the La Times pretends to be a neutral arbiter of the truth, and so as long as you're pretending to be neutral. This letter is ridiculous.
But what the letter suggests is that they know that the La Times. That's bullshit, that the La Times is not neutral, that they take sides. So this is their own saying if you take sides, if you're gonna take sides Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton, take a damn side here, what's your problem. It's calling the bluff of the paper basically.
So a few things. First of all, let me start with the National Review piece that was like, oh, this NBC report cheering on the fact that a journalist for NBC was arrested for quote unquote inciting terrorism, right. I mean you read the comments the posts. Yeah, they were not like yay humus. You might say, they were like mildly and poor taste. That's about as far as I would go with this. And this journalist was arrested, completely agree.
And your complaint is about the news organizations, not about the fact that a journalist was arrested for a social media post. That's insane, and you know, especially coming from a conservative outlet that you know, conservatives have now for years been cancel culture and the deep state, and they're coming for any sort of dissent and dissident opinions, like nothing has happened approaching this and you're out there cheering that on. That is insane. That's number one.
Well, also, we're funding Israel about a fifth of their military funding is from US, so it's not as though it has nothing to do with the United States.
Correct.
Yes, that's exactly right. And that's such an important point when people ask, oh, why do you care so much about this content? Because we're funding it, because we're enabling it, because we're backstopping it, and so that's also why we should care about what's happening here. With regard to journalists. By the way, I just looked at the numbers from euromed Monitor with regards to your comments only about how difficult it is to cover what's happening in Gaza in
any sort of an independent fashion. Sixty journalists have been killed in Gaza. This is more than any other conflict. So even if you feel like you know, while the only thing we can rely on is like the Palestinities are on the ground, of course at this point that's the only thing you can rely on, because you know, Western journalists are not allowed into the Gaza strip outside
of some like bullshit IDF propaganda ride along. They are massacring those journalists and their families, by the way, so it makes it even more impossible to have any understanding and any connection with the humanity that is unfolding and what is happening on the ground right now. So there's that with regard to the La Times and this letter, which not only called for, you know, words to be used in the with the proper definition that those words
actually mean. So, for example, ethnic cleansing, you already have almost i think is one point eight million people out of the two point two million in Gaza forcibly displaced. You have official government documents coming out saying our ideal solution is to push them out of Gaza altogether into the Egyptian desert. That you may not like. That that's ethnic.
That is the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing. So the fact that you are penalizing journalists who are saying we should use these words to mean what these words mean is crazy. And the letter also said that these outlets should be speaking out against the killing of journalists. So it wasn't even like this letter was like quote unquote taking aside in the conflict. You know, a lot of newsrooms have policies against protests or against signing on these
letters in an activist direction. This was directly about the job of the paper, and so to penalize these reporters for saying this is the appropriate way to cover this conflict, I think it's outrageous. And by the way, at LA Times, to their credit, is also the first I think American news outlet like newspaper to call for a ceasefire. So you know, it's not that the editorial board or others there aren't aware of what's unfolding on the ground. So
I find that sort of censorship outrageous. And many of the reporters apparently who were taken off of coverage were some of the people at like the deepest knowledge and who you know, had connections to the region, et cetera. So it's a real loss in terms of their coverage. And then you know, obviously it's horrific what's happening here with the New Yorker contributor and poet, founder of the Edward Zei Library who was detained now by the IDF.
And there's so much hypocrisy here from Western media outlets who pretended to care so dearly about press freedom in the Trump era, and now silence, silence, as all of this is unfolding, Emily, like you, I read some of masab Abu Toha's work after I saw that he had been detained, arrested by the IDF and is being held captive, hostage, whatever I want to say. His wife has no idea where he is at this point, and he's, you know,
an extraordinary, an extraordinary person, an extraordinary writer. At the end of that piece from The New Yorker, he wrote, recently, my wife dreamed that she was collecting frozen meat. In her dream, she was saying, this is my son's arm, this is my daughter's leg. If not for the war, I would be playing soccer with my friends twice a week. I would be watching movies with my wife. I would be reading the books on my shelves. I would be
taking my kids to the playground into the beach. I'd be riding my bike with my son Yazan, on the beach road. But now there are no books, and there are no shelves and no beach road. It is invaluable. It is crucial that we have voices like that helping people to understand the human beings, so they don't just turn into numbers and statistics that oftentimes make people's eyes glaze over. To have a voice like that silenced is
a real loss for everyone. I don't care what quote unquote side you're on, if you're on the side of human beings, it's a real loss to lose that voice and not have access to that humanity.
Certainly lucky to get out of Jaba Leah safely and to now be detained and to have the sort of a tension of other people around the world on his situation.
Well, I'm very curious how it unfolds.
I'm very curious actually, how the IDF, which again the IDF is detaining him reportedly, how they react now that this is becoming more front and center in the conversation.
Curious about that, Crystal.
Yeah, all right, let's get to Cardi B here and her thoughts on the world. So she thinks we're so excited for this second, Well, I love Cardi B. I genuinely love Cardi B. And I even forgive her. She has like some cringe takes on taxes.
It takes on taxes, ime care.
I'm just gonna put that to the side because I love Cardi b And she went on, what was this Instagram live or something? I think so, yeah, and she went off. This was like a ten minute diatribe. I personally recommend you watch the whole thing, but we pulled some of the highlights. This has to do with Mayor Eric Adams and massive cuts that he announced to a bunch of like social spending, education, libraries, police even this
was supposed to be the fun. The police guy is cutting the police budget in New York and also sounding off about Joe Biden and the various wars that we have involved ourselves in. All right, so we're gonna play this for you. Warning kids, earmuffs out of the room. Whatever, there's a lot of language here. Let's take a listen.
I'm not this year. Don't ask me. I don't give the resume that they saying.
I don't give.
I'm not endorsing no in presidents no more, because how is that a hundred hundred million dollar budget cut in New York City for schools, Library of Police, Safety and Sanitation. Yeah, Joe Biden is talking about like, yeah, we could fund two wars.
We could fund two wars.
Mothers talking about we don't got it, but we got it. We're the greatest nation nother. We're not We're going through some ship right now, like say it saying we're really going through We're really really really really really really really really really really are right now. And yeah, we're talking about we could fund two wars. That's not a tron of front, Like, yeah, I got the money to support two bitches, but you really don't y'all talk about y'all't
fucking y'all. Don't make negotiat negotiation with the hopsbod y'all need to set the down with these people and find a and find agreement. No, we can we have fun these wars.
We can't keep it a bean. We can't.
I told myself this week, Like, Yo, the incident right now is too dark because celebrity drama.
Of course, we we love it, we.
Infuse with it, we watch it, but it's like, yo, that's little almost really going on in the world right now. That's nothing compare what's going on in the world right now.
So she's going off about cuts to the schools that actually at one point she brings up the cops and she's like, well, I don't really care about the cops, but She goes on to talk a lot about the cops and how crime's going to be through the roof, and they cut the sanitation budget. There's a whole piece where she's talking about how rats are going to take over the city. She's also talking about then she throws in Joe Biden says she's never going to endorse another
president again, we can't afford these wars. We got to get out of these wars. What's your what's your view, Emily.
She's channeling everyone, you know, it feels like they're basic. There are basic things that we should be able to do as a society that like we cannot perform the most basic function of a city of a country right now. And I'm not trying to like overanalyze this, but I feel like that's actually really what she's talking about. Like again, this is the quote. She says, how is there one hundred million dollar budget cut in New York City for
effing schools, library, police, safety, and sanitation? And Joe Biden is talking about like, yeah, we could fund two wars. We could fund two wars. And actually, in the daily sort of political discourse, one thing I think it gets lost, but you guys do a great job focusing on it
is where our scores from education are. And like the rapid drop in scores that are coming out of students performance over the lasting five to ten years, they're shocking, they're staggering, and so yeah, for a lot of people, they look at one hundred and twenty million dollar budgetut in New York as she's talking about schools, public libraries, and the police department. You know, I don't give enough about the cops, but like it is what it is.
I mean, like New York City again feels like it's unable to perform basic functions, but so does the country as a whole when you're looking at again two wars. Also another thing you guys have been good about focusing on. When you look at the numbers of money that we've sent to Ukraine and you compare it to our normal budget, our normal like foreign aid in other places, the amount of money that we spend on things here in the United States, it's staggering. How much money we have sent
to Ukraine is like truly a shocking number. Even when you follow these things closely, you look at the number, it's shocking. And so yeah, when you look around you and you feel like your government that you are. This
connects to her position on taxes. She's gets a huge chunk of her paycheck taken out and then looks at budget cuts and sees rats running around the city, and it's like, well, if that's how a multimillionaire feels, how do the rest of people feel when it's like I'm paying thirty percent to the federal government, I'm paying x amount to my state government depending where I live, and we can't even teach kids math.
Yeah, well, I honestly have never been more sympathetic to that. Obviously, I think the rich should pay their first, and the tax rate is progressive and all of that stuff like still stands that I've always diod on. But I am very sympathetic at this point to that instinct, because yeah, you look around, you're like, wait, my tax dollars are going to fund two wars. My tax dollars are going.
To nobody declared war on by the way, right.
That's right. I didn't get asked. Nobody got asked about that. My tax dollars are going to support, you know, giving Israel more bombs to drop on babies in Gaza. No, Like, no, I don't feel great about paying taxes for that when we don't have health care. Right, So there's a few things here. Did you watch Carti's comments about FDR. Yeah, yeah, we cover that here too. She loves I love party.
But yeah, she went on this whole thing. She got asked a question about like, oh, what did you think about, you know, when you got a cheese sandwich with David Letterman or something like that, and she was like, that wasn't the thing. The thing was, let me tell you about FDR and Eleanor and how much I love them. Like, she's clearly very she's politically engaged, right, this is some one who cares about history. She endorsed Bernie Like, she's not just sort of, you know, a bystander not taking
in what's happening around the world. So I want to put that out there. But in addition, Chrish pretty'smart obviously, yeah, obviously, I mean she's a love Cardi again, She's She's incredible, and I think it's I think that's why people really take take note of some of the things that she says politically. But there's also just a real normy sensibility here that just lands with like you can't find the
freaking schools. But there's no limit over here whatsoever. And you know, a lot of times sometimes I get kind of depressed about like the state of America, et cetera, et cetera. But you know, oftentimes I feel like if we had just random people running your government, it would be way better than the decision making that comes out as it is. And she says that at one point, she's like these leaders, like they you know, they're terrible effectively,
Like these leaders, aren't it. So in fairness to Mayor Eric Adams, I did some digging here about why these budget cuts are happening, and what he would say and argue with some validity is that there is a huge number of migrants. There are huge number of migrants who are coming into the city. New York has a policy that they have to provide shelter for everyone. Many of these migrants are coming from Venezuela, though it's from a range of different countries. This is genuinely being a real
challenge for New York City just given the numbers. But I did some digging into the actual numbers here of the projected budget gaps and how much the cuts are versus how much sheltering migrants cost. This is from the Fiscal Policy Institute. They say that the city estimates the total cost for asylum seekers over twenty four and twenty five is about eleven billion. The city's portion of that
cost is about nine billion. About two and a half billion of that has already been budgeted in the adopted budget, So that puts the city's new funding need at six point five billion over the next two years, two point three billion in twenty twenty four and four point one billion in twenty twenty five. So the amount that it costs. If you're claiming that the whole problem is just the cost of sheltering migrants, the numbers don't add up here. They are cutting way more from the budget from things
like schools, sanitation and the police budget. By the way, then it actually, you know, the migrant cost actually makes up. So anyway, there you go in terms of the numbers. Because I did want to dig in here and give the full picture of what was going on in New York City as best I could.
Yeah, that's actually very helpful and the normy sensibility. Again, I think a lot of people are increasingly going to look at policies like New York cities in San Francisco's and in fact they are and say, well, the price tag of budget cuts is the price tag of being a sanctuary city. That is to say, people wouldn't be flocking here. Texas wouldn't be sending people here if it wasn't a sanctuary city. And so essentially this is the policy that's costing us X amount of money. And I mean,
I completely I believe that to be true. You talk to migrants and they say they specifically go to migrants to sanctuary cities, and of course it makes sense, it's perfectly logical. But that's a question democrats like Eric Adams increasingly need to have a good answer for. And obviously
we've seen him start to split with party orthodoxy. Specifically, mayors of some big Democratic cities, including here in d C, start to split with a party orthodoxy on illegal immigration as soon as it kind of came to their streets at the level that it does to you know, Brownsville, Texas, or some of these border towns that are rural and lack a lot of social capital, and in some ways because of this, but Crystal, I really think that is
trickling into like normal people looking around their city in a way that you know, budget cuts typically come from Republicans.
Republicans are typically.
The ones lowering taxes and typically the ones that you know want less money and to you know, the educations syst So Republicans have to answer for this all the time, and this one on this particular part of it that's increasingly going to be a problem for Democrats. And Cardie didn't connect the dots totally, but she sort of started to.
And you reminded me of the William F.
Buckley quote, and you said, like people are looking around, like who are these idiots running the government? He is a great quot where he said, I'd rather entrust the government of the US. So the first four hundred people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard.
Well, New York City is a city of immigrants. Oh yeah, right, and their self conception is a city of immigrants. And so even with the strain that the number of migrants you know have brought to you know, just the ability to shelter them and be able to school the kids, especially now that you have huge budget cuts coming to universal pre K and to education overall, there still is a pride in being an accepting place for people coming to the country, and.
I think that's applies to the whole country too.
I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that, and I think it especially applies in a city like New York just given their self conception. But there's no doubt that cities like New York and places around the country have been failed by DC and the fact that they have been unable to come up with any sort of sensible immigration policy. And one of them, you know, with a lot of the immigrants coming to New York
being from Venezuela. I mean, one thing you can really clearly point to is our sanctions on Venezuela and the way that has contributed, not the only factor, but contributed to economic chaos which has forced people to leave. That's one thing. But the other thing that you can really point to is, you know, many of the people who are coming to New York and other places, they are asylum seekers and they deserve to have their asylum claims
adjudicated in a reasonable period of time. And that's something that Americans should expect as well. And so part of why this becomes a problem is because if you're seeking asylum. It can be years before your case this has ever heard.
Oh yeah, and this shouldn't be This should not be controversial that you have a surge in sufficient immigration judges to be able to clear this massive backlog of cases so that you know, people are able to buy, you know, by law, have their claims heard and adjudicate and decide is this a legitimate asylum seeker or not, and go
through some sort of orderly process. So I don't dispute that New York City and the country as a whole has been failed by the fact that there is no real like sensible immigration process in sense that is in place, that is rule base, that is you know, expedited, that has some sort of reasonable semblance of order. I don't
doubt that at all. But with regard to Eric Adams specifically the numbers that he's claiming of, you know, what they have to cut versus what they actually are spending on migrants donata.
If you know, And just to bring this full circle, your point is so right. And I was at a migrant respite facility in I think this was in Brownsville, Texas, and talking to some Haitian migrants a year ago and was looking at the papers that they had been given from our government.
Their asylum hearing was for years.
It was like I'm looking at the paper and the asylum hearing is in like twenty twenty four, and it's just like, well, they're like, we don't even know if we have a work permit. It was unclear to them whether they'd be able to work, and it was actually really unclear in the paper. And that, to bring this full circle, is that we cannot perform basic functions as
a country anymore because of Washington DC. Like this is downstream of Washington DC's completely byzantine and poorly managed systems and our inability to actually make decisions about, for example, what our immigration system should look like. When you have policies, decades of filled policies in Central America that are pushing people north, what do we do? How do we fix our decades of field policies in Central America? Then how do we fix our immigration policy to deal with that?
We cannot perform these basic functions anymore. We just can't, and it's causing problems all we don't.
Yeah, that is a great point. All right, let's go ahead and bring in our great friend Ryan Grim We're going to talk about the incredibly wild new president of Argentina, who he is, what you should know about him, why it matters to you, and how we got there. Let's get to it. So Argentina has a new president elect, Javier Milay. He is an anarcho capitalist businessman, TikTok sensation who seemingly came out of nowhere to win the presidency.
But our own Ryan Grim is joining us now to talk about how he didn't actually exactly come out of nowhere to win. He had some powerful backing. So we'll get into that.
Great to see Ryan, Good to see you guys.
There you go, there you go. So before we jump into this first, we need to set up for people like why this why people are paying attention, and just how kind of wild this gentleman is, who now has just been elected with a huge amount of support actually from young people in Argentina. We're going to play some of the videos that have gone viral of him. I'm going to do my best with the subtitles. Just bear with me. Also, I believe there is some language in
these as well. This is very vulgar show we have here today. Emily, go and put this up on the screen, and I'll give you the sense here. So he's standing at a board. He's pulling off the board all of these different ministries environments, sustainable development that he says are out, Ministry of Women, Genders and Diversity out, Ministry of Public Works out. Even if you resist, he says, you can't give shit left hards an inch. Can you define shit leftist?
The interviewer says, all collectivists, all kinds of collectivists. But why do you call them shit? She says, because they are shit, he replies. She goes on to challenge him. If you think differently from them, he says, they will kill you. This is the point. You can't give shit leftist an inch. If you give them an inch, they will use it to destroy you. You can't negotiate with
left hards. You don't negotiate with trash because they will end you if they The left have a guy, and then goes on to talk about how like if the guy is beating his wife, they'll just stand with him, etc. So anyway, that's a basic vibe of him. He's got some pretty wild positions he's in favor of, like selling organs and some other stuff and on a more serious I mean, that's pretty serious. But he also from an economic position, he wants to dollarize the economy, abolish the
central bank. He's he's out there, so give people a sense of, like, you know, your analysis of where he fits on the political spectrum.
Well, I was telling Emily, it's like if an even cooler Robbie Suave he is elected president of Argentina. It's the it's a he's a dorm room libertarian and that's where they're like organ stuff comes from.
I don't think he's going to actually put that in.
It's like somebody will press a libertarian, well, should you be able to sell your organs?
Then the libertarians like, yes, markets absolutely.
But he's also anti abortion, pro Israel, pro oh Ukraine. So he does have that kind of dorm room libertarian anarchist tendencies at the same time, though it tempered not even I shouldn't say tempered, but they're actually like textured by this anti cultural leftism that Chrystal you were pointing out.
Argentina has gone pretty culturally.
Far left in some different ways, to the point where you can understand why there would be a backlash.
Yeah, he does the whole he says, libertarians don't have an official position on abortion, and he's like, he's on the side that you can't have freedom if you don't have if you're never born.
Therefore I against abortion.
Most of his supporters are men, not coincidentally with that position. But the context for all this, of course, is that Argentina has been a basket case for a very very long time. The inflation there over decades has just kind of sapped the kind of strength out of the economy. Like people will get paid and immediately try to spend all of their money right now. Yeah, and that's that's like good for them, like own only one hundred and
fifty percent inflation over the last year. But like at stores you could you get banned from you can only buy like certain amounts of things, So like entire families will go together and like take the paycheck and divide it up, and the kids will be buying you know,
certain number of eggs and milk and whatever. And the rich then can like immediately convert all of their wealth into dollars, and the poor and the middle class are constantly trying to convert things into dollars because there's that's the only store of wealth. Oh interesting, and the political system is just entirely broken because this parent is you know, they call it parent parents.
He invokes that on the campaign, trill and he beat.
A paronist party and I beat a pathetic parenties candidate who the voters called.
His nickname was Pancake. He was the economy minister.
Yes, pancake, because he's been with the left, he's been with the center right, like he's he's just like an opportunistic kind of and also like total charismaists politician, like, yeah, the center left party in Argentina's absolutely you know, pathetic. What paranism was was an attempt to like do leftism and labor advocacy and social justice stuff, but also co opt the rich and business element, which is always like
trying to undermine yeah, the left. But obviously that then coalition becomes like the big part of parentism.
And so they.
Benefit in certain ways from inflation. Some public workers, students, like a lot, so many different people benefit in some ways from the inflation that every attempt to kind of combat it then runs up against a choke point, Like you think our system has a lot of choke points for getting things done, like Argentina is like on steroids, and so in the past, whenever they've tried to do anything around inflation, you'd have people come out in the
streets and it would get shut down. So it's gonna be really interesting to see what he can do because you're already seeing a bunch of center left politicians who are sort of like seeing his victory and recognizing it as an anti referendum in the status quo and saying, well, maybe, so you're actually seeing a lot of people gravitate around him, Like the left thinks that he's going to just collapse under his own weight, in the weight of his own silly contradiction.
He doesn't have Congress, he doesn't, he doesn't have Parliament.
He doesn't.
But there might be enough, there might be enough energy around him that he can actually get some things through. The problem for people will be the only things that he'll end up getting through will be more kind of subsidies for the rich. And like that wing of do we have that Lefong yes piece that ye yes?
Put this up on the screen, guys from the intercepts. Some great reporting here from Lefong about the Atlas network, and the headline here is sphere of influence how American libertarians are remaking Latin American politics. And it's the sort
of sprawling network of think tanks. You know, we're all familiar with the Coconut orre he This is sort of the equivalent home from a Ford Affairs perspective, and Malay is associated with some of the groups that are affiliated with this like sort of sprawling libertarian big money network.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And so without this well funded and it's the Coke Foundation actually contributes to this. Atlas Network Donors Trust, which you guys know, like that's the big kind of right wing kind of pool of money. It's a big donor to Atlas Network. And so what Atlas Network would do is go in into these South American countries and Central American countries and basically fund economic libertarian think tanks and then you know, boost the careers of people like Mela.
I know an economist who worked with Mela back like thirty years ago.
Interesting, and don't you know, I know that it's really random.
We're totally totally randomly And she was like, yeah, he was. Everybody knew him, and he's just like this crazy dude in the office and he just kind of like tolerated him, and he's also kind of funny. He's got like take my hair today and like times ten right, completely wild, and that's all he would have remained without, like the Atlas network and the billionaire libertarian networks to then kind
of move him through the system. But it was about five or six years ago he started getting on argentating and TV a whole bunch, and he's so funny and like entertaining that it's very Trumpian phenomenon. Like CNNMSNBC just loved the ratings that Trump brought right and they were the oxygen on his file well and social media.
And that's why one of the unique dynamics here is that a lot of these sort of like right wing populist type candidates who risen to power is mostly older generations, and a lot of the resistance to them comes from younger generations. Here, that dynamic is flipped. Vox had actually an interesting piece about him. They interviewed a bunch of young people of why they support him, when you know, usually young people were backing leftist candidates up until this moment.
They interviewed this one woman. She says, I only have memories of our Argentina, Indicay. She's nineteen years old in Buenos Aires. So you look around and you associate all the political parties and all the movements that were in power during that time to a decaying country, and you
desperately search for other options. Another thing that came out in this piece that I thought was really interesting because he's also like, he says climate change is a hoax, and he's on that whole train, which you know, fits with the libertarian right wing billionaire network as well, and they're like, there were a lot of people in this article that were like, I don't agree with him on that. I don't agree with him on abortion and these other cultural issues, but like I got to get some food
my fridge, and I don't. And there were also people who were like, I don't even know. It could be a total disaster with this guy, but we got to do something. Yeah, then we got to do something here. And so that was like the sense that came from these young people of such desperation that was like, ah, I mean, at least he's different. I don't know, let's give it a shot.
You're given a choice between a guy named Pancake, who was the economy minister overseeing an economy just in complete turmoil. Well or this guy, and you can understand why you'd be like, you know what, Okay, I don't want to sell my organs.
I don't know.
I'm actually for abortion rights. I don't think we should eliminate every single government ministry. But man, I don't like pancake either.
Yeah.
It's like, I know it's a disaster. I know the status quo is a disaster. It's a stream of health maybe a disaster. Hey, listen, if there's even a shot that it's something, I guess I'm going to go for it, right, right, right.
So it's the status quo is a disaster, and this other candidate represents the status quo, which is basically exactly the Hillary Clinton Donald Trump dynamic. So it's not just that this other person is a blunt force object is a wrecking ball.
Donald Trump seen as a wrecking ball.
You literally used the flight ninety three election metaphor in Claremont and other places on the right and run up to the twenty sixteen election. So I do think that dynamic is somewhat instructive, because again, you have someone who promises, who is absolutely telling you they will be a wrecking ball to the status quo in ways that most voters see as good and bad. It's just a totally unexpected quantity. And then you have somebody who represents the status quo.
A lot of people will choose the uncertain quantity wrecking ball, even if they don't like everything about them.
And I think there's a significant chance we're going to see some significant violence because you're going to see if he goes after the unions, he goes after the pensioners, he goes after public workers, like they're going to come out in the streets, like that's how Argentinian politics has been.
But he's aged, he's a libertarian, so he can't go Bukele.
He certainly can.
I mean he can, but like ideologically and if he's ideologically consistent, he's sort of the opposite.
Of bou Kele.
He also is like the president of a government which is not consistent with not believing in government.
Called the criminal organizations. Now he's like.
And so I would not be surprised to see him, you know, put guns out in the streets if if there are a protests that try to bring him down. So I think it could get pretty ugly, and you might see people You're going to see a significant portion of the country, I think support the violence to say like no, we on the flight ninety three, like when we have said wrecking ball, we really meant wrecking ball. So it could get pretty dark and there doesn't seem to be any significant left opposition able.
To push back.
Obviously a lot of these dynamics are specific to Argentina, but do you see this as part of a broader trend, either in you know, South and Central America or more.
Yeah, I mean he definitely does.
Like he when he won, he put up a post of himself next to Trump and Bolsonaro.
And Trump said he was very proud of him.
Trump very proud of him.
And I bet he feels some affinity with Bukelly in El Salvador. And this Atlas network is all over the South America and Central America as well, so it is he very much sees it as an international movement. These libertarians, don't, you know, they don't like borders, they don't believe in governments or nations. So the Atlas Network was very heavily involved in training the kind of organizers that led to
the mass Street mobilization that brought Bolsonaro to power. So yeah, I think there's it is a similar thing we got we're seeing, gotcha.
All right, Well, we're going to do an interview with Ryan as well on his new book, The Squad. We'll give a little pretease on that one. That's going to drop over the holiday weekend. When does the book actually out.
It's technically out December fifth, but I think the Monday after Thanksgiving you can start getting it in bookstores, gotcha. Like the event we're doing, people will be able to buy books, gotcha for instance.
Okay, So thank you for your analysis here, and guys, stay tuned for more on Ryan's book called The Squad, AOC and the Hope of a Political Revolution coming to bookstores near you soon. Ryan, Great to see you, Great to see you, guys. Excited to be joined now by Jane Hugor. He is not only founder of TYT, but also is a Democratic candidate for president in twenty twenty four. Gent, great to see you. Great to have an update for you on the campaign.
All right, thanks for having me appreciate.
Yeah, of course, So you shared this recent clip of Joe Biden, which you proffered as evidence that perhaps he is not the man that Democrats should go with for their next presidential candidate. Let's take a look.
Now. Just to get here, Liberty and Bell had to beat some tough odds competition. They had to work hard to show patience and be willing to travel over one thousand miles. You could say, even this harder than getting a ticket to the Renaissance tour.
Or for Britney's tour.
She's down in It's kind of warm in Brazil right now.
I don't see the problem.
You're not inspired by this?
Yeah, wow, wow.
Okay, So, first of all, it's Taylor Swift, as we all know, and except we don't all know. The president doesn't know. But that's not the point, guys. The point is what was that? I mean, that's just so.
Look.
I if it's just a matter of Joe Biden's career and he's pulling a Diane fin signed late in his Senate career, and then I feel bad for him and his family should help him, et cetera. But this is way more important. This is for democracy. This is for a presidential election. This guy's twenty two points underwater his favorability, He's only thirty seven.
His unfavorables are fifty nine.
Does that guy look like he's going to pull off a comeback being twenty two points underwater impossible. He can't even finish a sentence, and I look, I don't enjoy saying this.
I feel terrible saying this.
But someone has to say it otherwise we're just going to walk into a loss against Donald Trump.
And I'm just amazed all of Washington. I know that there's a little.
Bit of a rebellion going on now, even within the establishment, but for so long all of Washington was like, yeah, let's just look who cares.
Obviously Biden's going to lose.
I mean, he's been losing the Swing States all along, he's been losing independence all along.
Now he's lost Latinos.
We went from a forty two point lead among Latinos down of four points. He's lost them completely. Everybody knows he's gonna lose. So my job is to be a little bit rude as snap Washington out of it. There's no way that guy who can't finish sentences and is down, you know, twenty two points in his favorability is going to come do a miracle comeback and beat Trump.
Or any Republican.
I don't know anyone who actually disagrees with it.
And so we actually have some of these poll numbers that we were just kind of alluding to. Some of these numbers, especially with young voters. I mean, look at this, Trump gains edge among younger voters. This is an NBC News poll from this week. Donald Trump is at forty six percent. Joe Biden is at forty two percent. That is a for Democrats. That is a just absolute disaster. There's no other way to put it. And it's trending in the wrong direct, So it's not as though it
started out that way. It's something that's continuing to go down. Jenk especially a somebody who is a kind of a pioneer in online spaces that are influencing a lot of really young voters and is now actively campaigning.
How do you see that issue?
And then what is the sort of I'm also curious to sort of when you're campaigning versus when you're trying to, you know, turn an online presence, a media news media presence into a campaign. What's that process like, especially with younger voters who are are much more influenced by that than I think a lot of older people.
Realize, Yeah, look, guys, that's that you just showed.
It's over. There's near zero percent chance that Joe Biden's gonna win.
And I'm saying that with my political anils hat on and in fact, that's why I entered the race, because I can read numbers. This is Look, this is the same thing I said during the Hillary claim years. Guys, she's gonna lose. Look at the polling numbers. You're being blinded. But that was ten thousand times less.
Clearer than this is.
Joe Biden needs younger voters to win, period, not even close. He won them in large numbers in twenty twenty. And that's why the only reason that he could win that particular election, and he barely won the electoral college in that election. If he's losing younger voters, and now he is, he has a zero percent chance of winning.
No Democrat can win without younger voters. He's that.
I mean, look, this entire thesis of my book is the why progressors were going to win. We talked about this last time I was on is because younger voters are so overwhelmingly progressive. Do you know how deeply incompetent you have to be as a politician, as a democratic politician, to lose younger voters to Donald Trump. Now, this guy's the worst politician in the world. The only reason he barely won last time is because the entire establishment co
esce around him, including all of media. So look, younger voters, why are they against Joe One. They didn't grow up with television, And that goes to your point about online versus TV. Right in the old days, did you'd get spoon fed propaganda on television? They'd be like, Oh, Joe Biden passed the semiconductor bill, you should be really happy. And people are be like, what, I'm not in the semi conductor business, but okay, I guess so right, And Joe Biden reduced drug prices on one drug.
And then everybody cheers.
It's historic, right, But young people can just look stuff up online. They're like, wait, is there only one drug in the world? Oh no, there are tens of thousands. Oh, it turns out it's a trick to protect the other nine and ninety nine drugs, And like, how many tricks? Oh, you're gonna do student debt relief? Oh, you put a poison pill provision in there. You knew the Supreme Court would overturn.
Oh golly, gee, did we get caught again?
But now it's over because of Israel and Gaza, and he's lost younger voters so badly over that issue. Remember Joe Biden is two hundred years old, so he still thinks it's the nineteen seventies or nineteen nineties, and he's like, ohr support Israel and it's war crahymes two hundred percent, green light all the way, and young people are like, vomit, Oh, get at it? Why why is this guy so out
of touch, so brutal? Because they're used to having TV do NonStop propaganda for any dumb idea that they had that they was shoved down the throat of the American people. And now young people are leading the way to going no, no, no, no, you.
Need to do things that we want.
Our lives right now are way worse than our parents' lives. We're tired of this crap. And Joe Biden is never going to turn around. He's like frozen in amber. There's a zero percent chance he turns around. Look, guys, it doesn't matter whether you like me or not. And yeah, okay, by I am loud, I'm aggressive. I bought the url Biden is going to lose dot com. I bought selfish obiden dot com. They all readirected my site. Okay, I'm the bad guy, I'm the boogeyman.
Okay.
Oh no, don't say anything about the Democratic candidate. Our job is all to do propaganda and marketing for them, so we can barely prop them up. No, I don't agree. We should pick a great candidate, candidate who's actually gonna fight for you and fight for these policies. Does Joe Biden looked like he's gonna fight for you. He can barely fight a nap.
Let's put the next poll numbers up on the screen, which I think bolster some of the points that you're making here, Jank. This is also from NBC News. So seventy percent of voters aged eighteen to thirty four disapprove of Biden's policy on Israel. Fifty six percent of all voters disapprove fifty one percent. So a majority of Democrats say that Israel has gone too far, and forty nine percent of Democrats, so very close to a majority, oppose US aid to Israel. Now the play Devil's advocate here.
What the White House would say is it's just one issue. We're still always out from election day. Once we get down to it and it's Trump versus Biden, people are going to come to their senses and they're gonna, you know, suck it up and vote Joe once again. What is your analysis there?
Okay, totally one hundred percent wrong.
So let me give you a number of reality checks here. So number one, sometimes politicians can ebb and flow, of course, right, And at one point Obama dipped down to like forty three percent, and so that's what the Biden people were using for a long time. But Joe, you're not at forty three. You're now at thirty seven. Thirty seven is massively lower than forty three. And Obama barely dipped in there once and bounced back up. Joe Biden's been down
in the thirties forever and ever and ever. Now the counter to Obama is George W.
Bush.
George W. Bush sank into the thirties. And I remember Tim Russell all the way back in the day and Meet the Press doing a segment on the narrative of comeback. And I wrote a blog all the way back in the Huffing the Post days, he said, what comeback? You just invented that so called narrative. This man has no capacity for a comeback. He's going to say in third, in the thirties the rest of his term. And I was totally right about that, because George W. Bush wasn't
even trying to make a comeback. That was the second term, and he was just driving his numbers into the ground.
By the end.
His partner, for example, Dick Cheney, finished at nine percent approval. Okay, so does the person have a capacity for a comeback or don't they? And how far down are they? Well, Biden is way further down than Obama was. He's been there way longer, and he has absolutely no capacity for a comeback.
You just saw it with your own eyes.
Who are we kidding with this politically correct crap about agism.
People see that.
Real people, voters, not political people, not people triangling for a job in Washington. Real voters look at that and go, hey, no way, I'm voting for that guy. He can't finish his sentence. He doesn't know what the hell's going on. No way, let alone is or let alone on other issues, guys. Because of Israel. There's one other giant problem for Democrats. We've lost Michigan. His Arab support has dropped from the
seventies down to fifteen percent. And every Arab and Muslim, whether they're talking to me, they're talking online, or they're talking.
To upholster, are all saying, Look, it's one thing whether.
We vote for Trump or not, Okay, but we're not voting for Joe Biden.
Under any circumstance. So we'll stay at home, We'll do whatever it is. That's it. Michigan's gone.
So now, how are you going to win the election without the most critical swing state of Michigan. This is political malpractice. We're purposely losing this election. I've never seen anything like this. This is total madness. There's no way Joe Biden's going to win. It's not even going to be close. And then finally think about this. Incumbency is really important for a senator or a congress person because that gives you name recognition, and that gives you all
the donor money. Okay, but when you're running for reelection as president, incumbency is now in the modern world, is an albatross around your neck. Why, first of all, it cost Donald Trump election because COVID hit and he couldn't adjust in time, and people were angry about that, and that's why he lost the election. Now, I imagine, in Biden's case, they're in October, gas prices go up. No no, no, no, no no, no zero percent, zero zero zero. There's no
way he wins up. Gas prices go up in October. Now, who controls gas prices? Well, the country that has the biggest effect by far is Saudi Arabia, who the Saudis love, all right, they love Donald Trump.
They love Trump and his family.
They give them millions of dollars, all the golf tournaments, they've been in bed together this entire time.
You think that Saudis aren't just going to hand the election to Trump.
You need a super strong Democrat who one number one is not an incumbent and will not be as affected by gas prices, and number two can withstand an assault from Trump and his allies. Biden hasn't even run. He's not even running. He's preventing everyone else from running, and he's not doing any campaigning because he loves Republicans. So when you ask him, hey, can you do a speech, he has Republican. No, my Republican friends, I've given so many text guns for the rich with them together.
Where's my brother, Rich mccado. Let's freeze together. Come on, guys, come on, Okay, I'm the bad guy.
Everybody ate me.
It doesn't matter.
Let me ask you, bid. Let me ask you though, because you know, if you ask Democratic voters, a majority say we want Biden to step aside, we want other options, et cetera, et cetera. But when you give them other choices, and I'm not just talking about you and Dean Phillips and Marianne, but even when they ask, okay, hypothetically, if it was Biden versus Newsome or Paula Harris or Pete Bootage or whoever, voters are still backing Biden. So why
do you think that is? And you know, and also give us a reality check on how your campaign's going, where you are in the polls, and what your trajectory is, how you want to make the comeback.
Yeah.
So number one, those polls are deeply misleading. And I'll tell you why you have to. It's not like, oh I don't like that particular poll. I hate when people do that. No, there's two reasons why they're deeply misleading. Number One, they put everyone in the poll, so Biden
will have an advantage because he's the common President. Meanwhile, Boudage just knew some are the same guys, so they split the vote, right, covid char Kamala Harrison said, they all split the vote, and then they go, oh, see Biden's winning, And a lot of them don't have a lot of name recognition, like Greshen Winmer, right, but people don't know her, so she scores lower.
On a poll.
But if Gresham Winmer was a Democratic candidate, then everyone would know her and so she wouldn't have that issue at all, and she wouldn't have the albatrust around her neck of being eighty nine years old or sorry, eighty one eighty one. She could finish sentences. She's very popular in Michigan. She would win Michigan. She would win a lot of states. So those polls are deeply misleading and
are often just used to further falsely prop up Joe Biden. Okay, in terms of me, look, we you know what what did.
Joe Lieber say back in the day. He's got Joe Mentum, I've got Jankmentum. No, guys. I'm honest.
Look, Quinnipiac puts me in the polls. God bless, everybody should put me in the polls. It's maddening that they don't. Anyway, I'm at two percent, so two percent not the highest number in the world. On the other hand, everyone in the world expected zero. Right, They're like, oh, loudmouth talk show hosts not born in the country, no way.
Right.
But currently I'm meeting the governor of North Dakota, the governor of Arkansas, and I'm tied with Chris Christy. Okay, so what happened? I thought I wasn't supposed to register. And I'll tell you what, guys, they're starting to panic a little bit. The Joe Biden team has started buying up websites that are similar to my website.
Okay, what you're worried, dog? Okay.
And now they're trying to keep me off the ballot in a lot of places. Why Because I'm the loudest, most aggressive voice making the clear obvious call against Joe Biden.
So it's bothering them to no end.
Good.
That's why I got in the race to knock Joe Bien. Now is it because I'm against Biden. Look, Biden's got issues, I've been telling you, but that's not the main reason at all. No, it's because he's going to lose the Trump and we got to beat Trump. That's mission number one, mission number one. So right now, I got onto the ballot in Arkansas when nobody thought I was going to get on any ballots. So when they tell you don't try, that's because they don't want you to win.
They don't want you to succeed.
And by the way, they don't want anybody to succeed that would actually fight for the American people.
So it turns out if you try, you can win. Yes, indeed, you we're on ballots. We're going to get on more ballots.
Do you have an update on the legal side of this question of whether or not you're eligible given that you're a natural citizen versus a natural born citizen.
Yeah.
So number one arc thesis is that the fourteenth Amendment has already amended that part of the Constitution. If you read the fourteenth Amendment, it's a little bit like the Da Vinci Code. You go, oh wow, oh yeah, it is, it's right there. How come I never saw that before because people don't regularly read amendments. Fourteenth Amendment says all persons born or naturalized have do process an equal protection. They didn't say kind of equal, but not really equal.
They say, yeah, now we said naturalized, but we didn't mean naturalized. No, they said naturalized. They meant naturalized.
Equal protection means equal, It doesn't mean asterisk. It doesn't mean you're a second class citizen.
In fact, the Supreme Court has already said that you can't declare someone a second class citizen just because they're a naturalized citizen. Not about the presidential issue, but about different issues. We're going to make them apply that to the presidential issue. So we're going to sue a couple of states, and so that literally yesterday we had a
big meeting with our lawyers. I've got Bernie Sanders presidential lawyers from twenty sixteen and twenty twenty about which states to pick, which jurisdictions to focus on.
And so for what I would say to the voters is let the courts decide that don't worry about that.
If I'm not eligible, then i won't be able eligible and you won't have to worry about it, and it gets resolved much quicker during elections because that's the system we have in place, so the voters can know before they vote. So put that out of your mind and just say, hey, is this the guy that i'd like to represent me?
And if you're a younger voter, if you're any voter.
That's Democrat, I'm going to actually do the stuff that you want, and a fight like hell to do this stuff that you want. And Biden's wrong on a bunch of issues like Israel, so unlike him, I agree with the great majority of both Americans and Democrats. We need to cease fire immediately. I hate that the bombs being dropped on Palaesitian children have made in the USA on them sending another fourteen billion dollars. Joe Biden says at
every turn, we don't have money. We don't have money for paid family, we don't have money for higher wages, we don't have money for this or that. And then the minute there's war, he's like, yes, right away, take all the money, take American money, and Bob Palasty and children with them, no, no way, and a student debt relief. Definitely legalize marijuana instantly. It's over seventy percent. What is wrong with you people in Washington, Why won't you ever
do what the people want? Pay family leaves at eighty four percent? What do you need it to be at eighty five percent? Why won't you do it? And the reality is because they're hooked on the donor money. They only serve their donors. They're all corrupt. These donations are bribes. I'm the only one who's saying it because everyone else is part of the corrupt processing someone non corrupt.
Thanks for America dot com.
Speaking of that, Joe Biden has the most money right now, is the most supportant polling. But what do you say to people who will say to you, drank that your candidacy just makes it more and more likely that Joe Biden loses to Donald Trump? You, he's presumptive nominee is whatever. Media loves that phrase. What's your response to that?
Yeah, this is the same crap establishment says every time.
We've picked a loser and someone who's totally corrupt and who will do only what the donors want.
Now, bower your heads, otherwise you're hurting it.
Well, why did you pick the guy who sucks, the guy who we don't want, who's losing in all the polling, And why do we have to bow our heads? What the hell is this a democracy? This is the Democratic Party of the Republican Party. No, we're not gonna bow our heads. You told us about our heads to Hillary Clinton and she lost. She lost to Donald Trump, who's a moron, a blithering idiot, and she lost to that guy. And then Joe Biden almost lost to him in twenty twenty.
He only won by forty four thousand votes in three swing states. Now he's fifteen points lower than when he barely beat Trump last time. And now we're supposed to bow our heads. Oh hell no, no, no.
You bow your head? How about that?
I represent the actual Democratic voters. So put me in a debate with Joe Biden. See if he can survive, See if he can survive the night. Everyone knows. There's no way in the world Joe Biden can survive a debate with someone like me.
Then why the hell's he our candidate?
Why don't we pick a strong candidate instead of a miserably weak candidate. I even bought wounded Antelope dot com. There's no chance he's gonna win. So, guys, it isn't about Oh, if we just prop up the terrible candidate just a little harder, then maybe we could beat Trump. No, he's already losing young voters to Trump. He has no chance. The correct path to beat Trump is get as many candidates in this race as humanly possible today today, get me,
Governor Whitmer, Governor Shapiro, governor renews him. It doesn't matter. And by the way, put me in a debate with them. See how they do. Okay, because you need to be tested by fire. Trump was tested by fire in twenty sixteen with seventeen candidates on the Republican side, and he won. Joe Biden had twenty seven candidates back in twenty twenty, back before whatever it is that he has now has started, and he won, and it made him stronger, and it made him just barely.
Strong enough to win in twenty twenty.
So let's get a strong primary in here to get a strong candidate. Saying let's prop up the weak candidate by doing propaganda on his behalf is a losing strategy and I will not participate in it.
So Jank, last question for you. I just interviewed congresson and Dean Phillips, who obviously is also running in the Democratic primary, and he recently put out a tweet apologizing to Bernie Sanders. Leg Oh, turns out you were right. This process is rigged. Obviously. The DNC is not hosting any debates. They have no plans to host any debates.
Was wondering if you have talked to Carson Phillips and Mary and Williamson about doing your own debate the three of you, so at least you can see some competition of ideas in some democratic process.
Yeah.
I've been doing that since the day that Dean Phillips entered the race, and I've already arranged two to three debates. But Dean's got a giddy up, so I don't know what he's waiting for.
Guys, the three of us need oxygen. Let's keep it real.
Mainstream media isn't like, hey, guys, come on air and listening town halls, right, So thank god for shows like Breaking Points and that way we can get our message out. But yes, the three of us should be doing debates, forums, town halls together. We should be doing it every week and if we can, every day, because people need to know who Dean Phillips is, who Maryan Williamson is, who I am, and guys, you know, look, these presidential races
are really funny because you think two percent. I was kidding around about it before, like there's nothing to write home about it. Do you know what Donald Trump started at? And this is amazing. He started at one percent. People think, oh, he started with a big lead. No, he didn't know the first pall. He was out one percent. The difference between Donald Trump and someone like me or Maryann Williamson is the press just kept giving him the mic that they would allow him on the air twenty four to
seven all over the media. Imagine if mainstream media allowed me on air twenty four to seven like they did with Donald Trump, I would be at twenty percent within the week.
I'd be at forty percent within the month.
So all we need is a little bit of oxygen to get going here. Anyone who like normal older Democratic voters haven't seen a person like me.
They're used to whispering.
Like, okay, now, try to be Donald Trump, but my Republicans are my friends.
That's what they're used to. When they see somebody saying, no, goddamn it, paid family.
Leaves at eighty four percent, they're purposely not doing it. When I get in office, first thing inspired the parliamentarian and we're not gonna deal with any bs filibusters. Okay, we're gonna pass the bills that help your lives. We're gonna get your higher wages, we're gonna get lower drug prices. When they see that, they're they're gonna be They're gonna even if it's not me, they're gonna be thirsty for someone, anyone who fights for them.
So Dean Marianne, let's go. Let's go.
We should all be appearing together NonStop, and then shame Biden into it. Of course he's not gonna come because of the minute he comes, you've got a progressive lion like me.
I'm sorry, but I'm keeping it real. Someone who actually wants.
To pass the bills, who cares about your stupid ego, who cares? Who's the president? Did your pass bills or didn't you? He didn't even try with so many of the bills. He can't withstand a real debate. So we're gonna put up a guy against Donald Trump. We all know can't beat jank youuger in a debate. That's a fact.
Hey, listen, you're not such a slash and a debate, Jank, I wouldn't sell yourself short on that regard. Listen, I'll go ahead and say we would love to host one of these debates if such a thing comes to fruition. And I'm always grateful for you taking the time to come on our show and inform our audience about what it is that you're up to.
All Right, thank you so much, guys, Jankfamerica dot com. Don't let him take hope away from you. Okay, we're bringing hope back. We're gonna get caught trying, and we're gonna win. We're gonna shock the world because Joe Biden is not the guy. I am going to knock him out of this race. Hear me, now, quote me later.
All right, great to see you, Jank. Thank you so much.
Thank you guys.
All Right, well, it's Thanksgiving week, so we wanted to do a little Thanksgiving segment, Crystal, but we wanted to do it maybe a little bit differently. Let's start with some let's start with some pull numbers. Actually, we'll put this first element up on the screen that shows six and ten Americans our hope to avoid politics at Thanksgiving. This is from the Hill, a poll released Monday, found that more than sixty percent of people say they would
rather not talk about politics over the holiday. This week, just twenty nine percent of people said they're looking forward to talking about politics and family.
Actually, I have a lot of thoughts on this.
We also have some great questions and thoughts from you guys that will read, but let's start.
With the poll. Crystal.
Yeah, I'm actually a pro not in every case, Okay, but I do think that part of the problem here is that we can't talk about politics anymore with the people that were closest with. So I think what really annoys people is forcing politics that I think is incredibly irritating if you're the person that's like picking at everyone and trying to force everyone to have uncomfortable political discussions.
Yeah, on the other hand.
I think we should all be better about making it possible to a tough conversation about politics and religion, because if you can't find empathy for the people who are literally your family, who have different perspectives than you, you're definitely not going to find empathy for the random internet poster who has a different perspective from you.
Yeah, that's true. I would say the thing that irritates me is when someone comes in I don't I don't hate if someone brings up politics. In fact, sometimes like I like to hear from other people how they're processing an event, Like I may just ask some questions rather than really offer my opinion, because I spent enough of my life offering my opinion is all available for anyone
else there. I wants to know what I think about any number of issues it's available, So I like it more to like hear from other people how they're taking an information, more normal people. So there's that. The thing that bothers me, though, is when someone comes in super hot with a super controversial take and presents it like there's an assumption that, yeah, like everybody obviously agrees with me.
You're an idiot, you know what I mean, And you're an idiot if you don't desert, And there's just like a blanket assumption that, of course everyone must agree with this super controversial, super fringe take. I find that strange.
I find it sort of like disrespectful. So I will say I'm in the camp that intends to avoid politics going into Thanksgiving, but I often fail because I just to occupy so much of my mind I almost like can't help myself from making some kind of comment that's at least a little bit political.
You're the problem, I am.
I am the problem.
It's me.
But we did get some interesting responses from you guys about how you think about this, so we've got Ponce. Gomez says, when in doubt, instigate.
That's the Ryan griom a broach.
See. I'm not to ask Ryan when he was here, because I feel like he would be the type that, in his very like low key way, would offer some super hot takes and see what happens in his very chill way. But anyway, he says, holidays are a great time to discover the secret extremist in the family. Love starting the holiday off right with a few hot buttons and watch how the turkey likes fly. We have another one.
Joseph Turner Patterson the Second says, in the past, I've always either avoided political convos with my family or tried to redirect them to our few areas of agreement. Because my descent is typically met with anger. I have no illusions I can change their minds about anything. However, my dad recently pressed me on the subject of Israel, and I decided to hold my ground. He is the typical, unquestioningly is pro Israel boomer, and I am very much not,
and it actually remained very civil. That's hopeful with this says from VP. On certain talking points, you're welcome. So if that specific topic comes up, I'm going to lean into it and see what happens. But anything else I will probably continue to avoid. Those hills just aren't worth dying on. So that's an interesting perspective of like, this issue is so important to me that I'm willing to have things be a little uncomfortable to actually assert my view.
But that commic gets exactly what I mean by this is that like, actually the conversations with the people you care about and you have an emotional investment in, as opposed to random people on the internet or as opposed to I don't know, some person at a bar, whatever it is, that's where you actually make more grind if you can, Like, that's the space in our communities, in our families where you can be persuasive because people are invested.
In you, they know you, they care about you.
And I feel like, if we can't have these conversations in this context, which largely we can't and for sometimes you shouldn't be forcing these conversations because it's going to end poorly. You're going to be putting politics over family. So I get that, but we should all try to be in a situation where we can have those conversations.
And I think that's what there's this next convers.
Ut in this one.
Yeah, this one is.
I'm gonna mess up your name pajnaj Real BP does a great job with differences of opinion. I know just one person will always say, quote, you are making an important point, that's such an important point that you're making, et cetera, even though that person has very different opinions on the matter. I might allow someone to share their opinion at the holiday table, but I don't offer mine unless they're expressing a desire to understand my perspective.
That's so key.
I think it would then take. I would then take the Emily approach. She stays to the audience that she comes from an evangelical Christian perspective, but she's not screaming into the camera that everyone else is a baby killer. And that one reminded me when we got from John Isaac Schumart, who named Josh Sager and says, I do not bring up politics when you're done with boomers. It is inevitable when you dine with boomers, it's inevitable to
come up. I pull a saga and ask what do you think, and then follow Ice Tea's advice, let them talk. Eventually they get it all out of the system and the conversation moves on. Rarely they care what I actually think. And the reason these comments stood out Crystal is that, especially over the last month, I'm sure Sager has gotten some of this too. People will say, and you probably have as well. What you do on Crystal Kylin Friends
is different than what you do on Breaking Points. So people will say, you know, when Emily's on with Megan Kelly or when Emily's on Federalist Radio Hour, you know, just a it's a much more sort of crystallized conservative perspective than when she's talking to Ryan or when she's talking to Crystal. And I'm sure that also is true when you're on Crystal Kylin Friends. And that's we have to learn how to how to have these conversations in
different contexts. You don't talk the same way when you're trying to be you know, polite and persuasive with someone you disagree with as you do and you're talking to someone who agrees with you.
Yeah, that's true. That's true. It very much depends on the audience and the context, etc.
Yeah.
You know.
One thing that I always get a little nervous about is people will start if you're in a Thanksgiving holiday setting where you don't necessarily know everyone. You know, there are some friends there, of relatives that you haven't met yet or whatever, which is often the case for me. They'll start asking me like, oh, what do you do? And I like, I don't know, how do you answer
that question? Because I try to keep it as vague as possible, Not because usually if you get if they drill down enough to like, oh, you talk about politics for a living. Not because I'm worried they're going to ask me questions about it, because that oftentimes makes other people uncomfortable. If they know you're super political, then it puts them on edge. So I try to be really generic and vague when I'm answering that question.
Yes, so do I. But then sometimes they'll ask you.
The follow us and you're like, all right, I'm a journalist, or like like, oh, who for.
It right, you can't get away with it. We got one last one here from Jessica Seger. She says, I'm happy to talk politics that Thanksgiving to help educate my relatives. These only news sources are unhinged Facebook posts, word opinions means we all know that person because they actually trust what I'm saying and have told me that is helpful. Well, that's very nice. Some of them outright ask me who to vote for because I'm considered one of the smartest
people in my family. Oh, that's lovely for you, Jessica. Believe me, the bars beneath the ground and we need.
A metal detender.
That's kind of a lovely sentiment though, that her relatives, even the ones who are you know, mostly looking at unge and Facebook posts, respect her opinion and are looking for guidance from someone they trust.
People are desperate for good information, and again, I think that is another reason I don't know. I love talking to you and Ryan because it just is. It's so helpful. It's so helpful because when you're having those conversations, you realize what you get wrong because the other person has
the best version of the other argument. Hopefully they have versions of the other argument that you've never thought of, you've never heard, and so it's just really helpful to be able to say, here, Lixten, we might disagree, here's one thing maybe you haven't thought of, or here's one thing I find interesting about your perspective and ask questions. That's just I feel like Thanksgiving is actually if you're not forcing it, if you're not putting politics over family.
I feel like family gatherings are actually not the worst place in the world. But that's my unpopular opinion.
Well, I am thankful for you too, Emily, and thankful for all of you guys out there in the world. Hope you have a beautiful Thanksgiving Day, Thanksgiving weekend, however you celebrate it. And we are going to have some content that is posting some great interviews. I did one with Norman Finkelstein, sagrated one with Jocko. Those are going to post a little bit early for premium subscribers, but
they'll be available for everyone at some point. I don't really remember the schedule off the top of my head, so stay tuned for that. Love you, guys, and we'll see you back here with a full normal week of shows next week.
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