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Good morning everybody, it is a Monday. We have a great show for everyone today.
What do we have course, indeed we do, of course, we have you covered again from all angles of what is unfolding in Israel and in Gaza. There are some huge developments this morning, so we'll take you on the ground in Gaza. Will also talk to you about the US response which continues to take shape. Potential visit by President Biden in the works too Israel. So we've got all of that for you. The geopolitics, could this spark a broader war, something we are all, of course fearful of.
We're also excited to be able to bring you some results from our own focus group.
We did ask participants.
These were Democratic base voters outside in and around Atlanta about this conflict and how they are viewing it, what type of news they're consuming, how they view Hamas, how they view Gaza, how they view the Palestinians, how they view Israel, what they think we should be.
Doing in response.
Really interesting stuff, and of course it's always invaluable to hear from the American people themselves about how they are processing.
All of this.
We also wanted to zoom out and take a look at some of the overwhelming state backed censorship that is occurring on this issue. We'll give you some really striking examples this as protests have been sparked literally around the globe. We're going to take a look at how Israelis are
processing this and how they feel about their government. We've got some new polling there as well, and we've also got some news for you with regard to how our own media is handling this conflict and who they are allowing on air, and who they are allowing to voice their view and who they are not. So a lot to get into this morning, but let's go ahead and start with what we've got on the ground in Gaza this morning. Let's go ahead and put some of these
images up on the screen. Of course, the Israeli bombardment of Gaza, in particular Northern Gaza continues. These are images of the rubble at this point in Gaza City. Of course, they have issued evacuation orders for the more than one million residents of Northern Gaza, pushing them south as that complete siege. Conditions continue, no food, no water, no electricity.
And one of the big concerns this morning is you see this baby who is on an incubator, and this director of the main hospital in Gaza is that that main hospital is actually in the evacuation zone. It is already overwhelmed based on the number of wounded who have been struck and severely injured in these strikes from Israel. And what you could see there is footage of people who are laid out on the floor because there are
already not sufficient beds. The leadership of that hospital saying there is no way we can evacuate, there is no way we can move all of these severely wounded individuals. You can see people being brought into the hospitals here, so you know thousands of people who depend on that hospital. You can already see the mass grave there that is being dug and filled in based on again, this is in Gaza, the people who have been killed by Israeli strikes. And this is before we even consider any sort of
ground invasion, which hasn't occurred. We're now looking at images out of Israel. This is courtesy of sixty Minutes. This is the fallout from the horrific carnage that was inflicted on many Israeli civilians. You can see here footage from that music festival, bodies laid down. I know these images are incredibly disturbed, and we're going to get to go this later. These are some of the protests that have
been sparked around the world. In addition, Sager, you know, one of the things I was looking at this morning is there's been this conversation about allowing aid convoys in opening up the Egyptian border so there could be some sort of a humanitarian cord or established those negotiations.
Both sides different.
Stories about what's going on there, but the bottom line is there is no humanitarian cord or that border has not been opened, and diplomatic officials are saying the reason that Egypt hasn't allowed those aid convoys in that they have masked at the border is because number one Israel already struck that border crossing, and number two Israel will not promise to not strike those AID convoys coming in as well. So the situation is incredibly dire on a
humanitarian front. And as I said, this is before we even get into any sort of ground invasion, which is what Israel's right now.
Yeah, that's right.
The Israeli say that they're not allowing for proper security screening of set AID convoys. And this is of course, has now become the focal point of US policy of really global energy as the entire world focuses on what's happening in Gaza, and the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan actually announced yesterday that water would be turned on back in southern Gaza outside of the evacuation zone.
Here's what he had to say.
Take a listen to what Secretary Blincoln said last year when Putin was targeting Ukrainian infrastructure.
Heat, water, electricity, for children, for the elderly, for the sick.
These are President Putin's new targets. He's hitting them hard.
This brutalization of Ukraine's people is barbaric.
Now, look, Israel is not Russia. Gaza is not Ukraine. It's a different situation. But cutting off supplies, cutting off heat, cutting off water to civilians, what's the difference.
Well, first, thank you for saying that Israel is not Russia, because Israel is not Russia's second.
Civilians are civilians.
Civilians are civilian.
Yes, absolutely they are, and they deserve, as I said before, access to water and medicine and food, and we are working actively to ensure that that happens. And I can tell you this morning, Jake, that I have been in touch with my Israeli counterparts just within the last hour who report to me that they have in fact turned the water pipe back on in southern Gaza. That has been the subject of discussion over the course of the
past few days. The United States is going to continue working with Israel, with the UN, with Egypt, with Jordan, and with a lot of the groups on the ground to make sure that innocent Palestinians get access to those basic necessities and are protected from bombardment because they deserve that right, the right to those necessities and the right to safety and security every bit as much as Ukrainian civilians do, or civilians anywhere do in the United States
hasn't made any bones about that. We're working hard on that. We're working to make sure that that is the case as this unfolds, and it's something that has been a high priority for President Biden, for Secretary Blincoln, and for myself.
That's a pretty big deal though for Jake Sullivan to be the one announcing it and yeah, almost offhanded, to be honest, not though from Israeli officials or and hasn't yet really been confirmed all that much by Gaza officials.
Yeah, I mean, they're paying all this lip service.
And Biden put out a tweet like, oh, we've got to make sure innocent lives are protected, and you know, I expect Israel will follow international law with regards to they're already not. I mean, that's the thing that drives me crazy, is they're pretending like they haven't already clearly violated international law and committed wark rhymes here when it's unfolding in front of our eyes. Good for Jake Taffer
for asking this question. This is something you and I have in track, and we may talk more about this yesterday, because you have all of this video of Anthony Blincoln and the head of the EU and all of these peoples. Lensky talking about what a war crime it is for Russia to be turning off electricity and messing with civilian infrastructure during a time of war.
Suddenly when it's.
Israel, it's like, well, it's different for reasons, but specifically with regard to this idea that oh they turned back on the water pipe, that's not really how things work. And also if you don't have electricity, then you can't pump that water and it's not actually doing anyone any good. So a reporter on Al jazeero Ho explained some of the logistics and mechanics of this.
Let's take a listen to that.
Also, the black out of electricity inside Gaza is the main factor that even providing water to the Gaza Strip won't be enough, simply because without electricity, Gazans won't be able to fill the water tanks. So with the black with the ongoing black out of electricity inside Gaza, the humanitarian crisis inside the Gaza Strip will continue and will deteriorate.
More So, in the best of times, the infrastructure in Gaza is incredibly compromised, and in the best of times, under the current you know, a typical Israeli blockade. You have the majority of the citizens without access to clean water. So now when you have no electricity, you have no ability to pump that water. The one power plant that does exist in Gaza has already run on a fuel, hospitals having to rely on a generator. I mean, it is an incredibly dire situation. Again, you're talking about two
point two million people. You're talking about a densely packed enclave. You're talking about nearly a majority of those individuals are children. Hundreds of children have been killed already in these assaults. Again, this is before the huge exodus, this is before the
ground invasion potentially begins. So there is a lot to be concerned about here with regard to Americans, because remember there were a number of Americans who were killed by Hamas in those assaults, and we think some of Americans who have been potentially taken hostage and a number who continued to be unaccounted for. Interesting development here, I mean horrible development here. Put this up on the screen. So as of yesterday, well, these are the overall casualty numbers.
We've got thirteen hundred who were killed in Israel, over three thousand who are wounded in Gaza. Now we have over twenty three hundred who have been killed and nearly ten thousand who have been wounded. With regard to the US, put this next piece up on the screen. They're now saying that thirty Americans have been killed. Yesterday the count was twenty nine. Now it's risen to thirty. But this is interesting, Sager. They'll no longer comment any further on
the circumstances of the US citizen deaths. Jeff Stein taking portrial note of this. And the reason why this is significant is because remember, if you have Americans who are held hostage in Gaza right now, it could be the case that they are dying not at the hands directly of Hama, although Hamas obviously bears quite a lot of responsibilities since they're the ones who freaking took them hostage.
But when you have Israel mounting this overwhelming bombing campaign, dropping more bombs in Gaza then we dropped in Afghanistan over a number of years, some of those Americans could be getting killed right now by Israeli fire. And this is we're going to talk about the Israel domestic political context. There you have the latest number I saw is potentially
two hundred hostages that were taken by Hamas. The families and a lot of supporters of the families very concerned about their lives and protecting them and seeing if they can be brought back, if there can be some sort of negotiations to bring them home. So that's why it's so noteworthy that the US government will no longer discuss the circumstances surrounding these American deaths.
Yeah, I agree, And also it comes in the face of we also need to know how many American citizens are inside Gaza. The current number is somewhere around five or six hundred US citizens. Breaking Actually this morning, Crystal is that the Rafa crossing in Egypt might be opening for a few hours at nine am time local for foreign national specifically to cross. It could come this is just from a White House spokes.
Yes, well, we'll see, because they said that before and it didn't happen.
It didn't happen exactly, and it's because there was also an insistence from Egypt side. They said, we'll only open the crossing for foreign nationals to come across as long as AID convoys are allowed to cross in so could indicate this is just from a White House spokesperson minutes ago.
They say they.
Hope in order to open it up, we'll see, we'll see everybody, you know, remain on standby. Overall, the situation remains dire, largely because so many people are unable to flee from the northern evacuation zone approximately a million people. In the past, what we often observed in Syria whenever people were able to leave cities like Aleppo or others, it's really retirees. I mean, if you think back to Hurricane Katrina or any of the other times in which we have a major design here in which a lot
of people flee. Most of the time, the people who remain are unfortunately the old, the sick, the infirm, who are unable to do so. And then sometimes you know, also we've got people in the hospital system, as you said, which are overwhelmed international organizations inside the hospital saying that they're unable to go because they not only have patients, but they don't have the existing infrastructure in the south. And that's all before we see what this coming invasion
is going to look like into Gaza. The current indication that we've seen from Israeli military plans that have been released, is that they will have basically a full blown urban war against Hamas leadership, militants, and infrastructure. Hamas is extensive tunnel network all throughout Gaza and specifically northern Gaza. That's how they believe that many of the weapons and the
people were able to cross in the first place. Although you know they're vaunted border security fence also literally just moved open with a piece of construction equipment. That seems to be an issue anyway, That appears to be what it is for now. The officials off the record are saying that occupation is quote not on the table, that that's not what they want to do, but we don't know. I mean, you could technically say that we won't occupy something, but you could stay for six months to a year
while you have clearing operations at the very least. I mean, they are expecting significant amounts of Israeli casualties because this is probably going to be a bloody urban conflict the likes of which the world has not seen in a
long time. I mean, the Battle of Mosel is probably the most analogous from twenty seventeen, I believe, between the Iraqi security forces and Ice and that was an absolutely savage conflict, like not even blocked by block, but you know, city house by house fighting that occurred, and it was horrible for the civilian population also that was there, and the city really never recovered either.
There are more and more nine to eleven parallels here, both in the horror of the initial attack, the shock of the public, the way it changed their whole conception of safety, dean security, and what it would take to you know, feel like they and their families are going to be safe. But also you know, the way we went into a rock, which obviously was based on a pack of lies, but there was also no plan for the aftermath. And I'm looking at you know what Israel
is planning here. You know, it's easy for them, with all of their you know, equipment and modern weaponry supplied in part by US, to come in and bomb the hell out of Gaza City like they're already doing that. That's easy, right, the ground invasion. I mean, I'm sure Hamas will put up whatever fight they can, but that also, in a sense is easy for them. But it's easy to say, We're going to take out all of Hamas's
political and military leadership. But what then what then, is it just you know, more Hamas come in to fill the void. Is there a separate government that's going to come into Are you going to do nation building in Gaza? Are you going to occupy Gaza and run it yourself. I haven't heard any answer to those questions. And those are very big questions. So it's a lot more complex than just coming in and bombing the hell out of the people who live here. You have to have some
plan for what are you going to do next? Who is going to govern? How are you going to relate to those people who are governing? And clearly you've seen, even if you don't give a shit about the Palestinian people, if you care about your own people, you've seen the way that all of your modern gadgets, tech, etc. Can be thwarted by you know, a few hundred dollars drones and a bulldozer.
So what then?
And you know you're also seeing a level of dehumanization which is really abhorrent. That Israeli President Herzog he made some comments about how debunking quote unquote the idea that there are innocent civilians because his thinking is that, well, some of these Palestinians support Hama, so you know, they are basically complicit here. This is the same logic that Osama bin Laden used to justify nine to eleven. While the Americans elect these governments that do these awful things.
This is the same type of logic that Hamas would use with regards to Israeli, says Page and does use exactly, Hey, they elected these governments. And you know what, when you're talking about America and Israel, places that are basically democracies, there's actually more of a connection between the citizenry and the government than you know, when was the last time there was election in Gaza was seventeen years ago. I
believe innocent civilians are innocent civilians. And you're seeing some of this, you know, horrible hate crime that appears to have unfolded in Chicago where a six year old Palestinian American child was stabbed to death by a landlord that they're investigating as a hate crime, potentially because of his Palestinian and Muslim roots. So it is horrifically ugly what is unfolding right now, and there are many more questions
than answers about where we go from here. The last piece of this with regard to Israel, go ahead and put this up on the screen. Human Rights Watch has confirmed that white phosphorus was used in Gaza and Lebanon. They say that it puts civilians at risk of serious and long term injuries. They verified videos that were taken in Lebanon and Gaza on October tenth and eleventh. This was something that was a subject of a lot of speculation online because there were videos that appear to show
the use of white phosphorus. It can cause severe burns in people. It can set structures, fiels, and other civilian objects in the vicinity on fire. The use of white phosphorus and Gaza one of the most densely populated areas in the world, they say magnifies the risk to civilians and violates international humanitarian law prohibition on putting civilians at unnecessary risk. Israel, though adamantly denies the use, but the video evidence seems pretty clear.
Yeah.
White phosphorus munitions are specifically banned by international law, in specifically in populated areas by civilian populations. And you can go and you can read about past US use of white foster munitions in Vietnam, where it really became famous but really we saw deployment of it by I believe it was Syrian and Russians, you know, inside of the battle for Aleppo and all throughout Syria.
It was horrible.
What it inflicts really on the civilian population, which is what we're keeping an eye on. So, look, it's all pretty nightmarish where we are right now. We've already got several thousand killed already on both sides and the invasion
is not even begun. So with the invasion, you can really only expect things to go exponential, especially if we see an urban campaign combined with a air superiority that the Israelis have and our ability their ability, and then not even mentioning here the nightmare of a two front war, which we will get to.
Yeah, a little bit.
We're going to get to that. Let's focus in a little bit on the US response present. Biden was on sixty Minutes and was asked about the possibility of setting up a humanitarian corridor to assist those in Gazalis.
Take listen, are you asking Israel to establish a humanitarian corridor in that area or get humanitarian supplies?
Yes, our team is talking about that, and whether there could be a safe zone. We're also talking with the Egyptians whether there's an outlet to get these children and women out into out of that area at this moment, but it's hard.
You would like to see a humanitarian corridor that allows some of the two million gosms out of the area. You would like to see humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza. Yes, So you do not agree with the Israeli total siege of the Gaza strip.
I'm confident that Israel is going to act under the major the rules of war. There's a standards that democratic institutions and countries will go go by, and so I'm confident that there's going to be an ability for the innocence in Gaza to be able to have access to medicine and food and water.
Would you support Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point?
I think it'd be a big mistake. Look what happened in Gaza. In my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Moss don't represent all the Palestinian people, and I think that it would be a mistake to for Israel to occupy Gaza again, but to going in and taking out the extremist the hes Boa is up north, but hamas down south is a necessary requirement.
So he says he's confident they'll follow the rules of war. Of course, as I've already said, they're not. So I don't know why you would have that confidence, the thing that drives you. I mean, it's interesting, he says. I think it'd be a big mistake if they occupied Gaza. Indications are that they do not want to reoccupy Gaza, so we'll see what happens there. But crazy Sager, is this like feigned impotence, Like, wow, we want to, it's
just really hard. Well, if you actually wanted to, the United States of America has tons of leverage in this situation. I mean, just like with Ukraine, when we would love it if they didn't strike in Russia, and we've asked them really nicely, but there's not any willingness to actually put the force of US policy carrots and sticks behind any of these words, which makes them completely empty and meaningless.
Yeah, I think it's a huge problem.
And it actually reflects also the biparts and consensus here in Washington, which.
Is really unable to think for the future.
You laid out also as well with the Israeli side, So they're like, Okay, we're going to destroy Hamas, and I look, I support that. I think Amas deserves to pay. But you know what, what about day two? We never had that plan in any rock.
That's right.
They have to have the same plan in Gaza. And we tried occupying Iraq.
Didn't work.
We tried building a democratic system that didn't work either ended up backfiring spectacularly. We tried to capitating Aqi al Qaeda in Iraq. We killed Zarkawi, mission accomplished Oaks, then we created ISIS and that took over all of Iraq and Syria.
Fortieth order consequences exists.
I'm not saying Israel can do nothing, but they're going to really have to. If they had a plan to decapitate Hamas and then truly engage in some sort of diplomatic process which led to political resolution of the entire thing, I'd be like, okay, you know that seems reasonable.
But we also know that.
The current government and probably the populace at this point, after suffering the terrorist attack, doesn't support that, which means we're going to be in a year's long embroilment, just like we were in Iraq. The other problem is that the White House right now is facing so much pressure from the pro Israel politicians and really democratic sentiment. Let's also be honest that they are putting things off the table that in the future they may want to actually
call for. You flagged this one in particular, calls for a ceasefire called quote repugnant by White House spokesperson Karmie Jean Pierre.
Here's what she had to say.
What is the president's message to members of Congress who seem to be equating the Hamas terror attack with actions that were previously taken by Israel.
Look, here's the thing, and which congressional members.
Of some members of Congress who have called for a ceasefire, and they have not gone as far as backing the administration's call for support for Israel.
So, look, I've seen some of those statements this weekend, and we're going to continue to be very clear. We believe they're wrong, we believe they're repugnant, and we believe they're disgraceful. Our condemnation belongs squarely with terrorists who have brutally murdered, rape, kidnapped hundreds, hundreds of Israelis. There can be no equivocation about that there are not two sides here. There are not two sides. President Biden has been clear
on where he has stood. You heard him, You heard from him directly today, you heard from him also on Saturday on this. There's been multiple statements from this president and he's taking action to provide additional support to ensure that Israel has what they need to defend themselves.
So question from Phil Wegman there specifically, what do you think of these calls for a ceasefire? And she says they are repugnant and we believe they are disgraceful to call for a ceasefire repugnant and disgraceful. Now put that in context with what Biden is saying there about home.
We want the innocent civilians and we're concerned about and we don't want to reoccupation, humanitarian order, etc. On one hand, and on the other they're saying anyone who would even say, hey, stop the violence repugnant.
And it's not just that. By the way, this is the official poll.
This wasn't something just like koreein Jean Pierre messed up and she didn't get the question right or the answer writer or whatever. Put this up on the screen Huffn and Posts had this originally washed and Post is now confirmed it. The State Department sent out a memo warning diplomat's no Gaza de escalation talk, and they gave them specific language that they do not want to appear in
any communications. They wrote that press materials should not include three specific phrases de escalation or ceasefire, end to violence or bloodshed, and restoring calm. So any talk of peace or ending the violence and bloodshed. Officially, the US government's policy is that is off the table.
I think that the major issue is that they see this as calling for negotiation or something like that with Hamas, and I think that there is a very easy middle ground of why they will regret I believe in the future is that and what we're going to talk about
very soon in geopolitics. But I'll mention here is that the message is being received loud and clear across the Arab world, from MBS in Saudi Arabia and Riod to the Qatar, you know, the emir to Iran and the Ayatola, which is that the UNITEDS and Egypt actually in Cairo, that the United States is co signing what ever Israel wants to do. And whatever Biden may say, actions speak longer than louder than words. Behavior itself is a language.
Whenever you do nothing, then that sends a very clear signal. And this is reigniting really like a complete like we have not seen the Islamic world this united really since probably the invasion of Iraq against US, and by unequivocally siding with Israel and by not actually drawing any sort of nuance or leaving things open in the future, we absolutely invite possible escalation in the future, future terrorist attacks against US, but more importantly sentiment across the Arab world
against US. And we're watching this really unfold as President Biden, Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln is finding himself really not as welcome as he once was in the region two weeks ago, two weeks ago, let's put this up there on the screen. Anthony Blincoln trying to recreate the Shuttle diplomacy famously done by Henry Kissinger. In the last seventy two hours, he's visited Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Uae, Saudi again, Egypt, Jordan again, and Israel again.
On Monday, this all comes you know, before a possible visit by President Biden. If we can put the next one please up there on the screen. Benjamin Natanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, has invited President Biden. We will see whether President Biden does show up in some sort of show of support. Obviously it'll be kept under wraps. You actually canceled a visit to Colorado today, Crystal. Usually these trips are you know, shrouded in secrecy. Yeah, we'll find out when he lands in Tel Aviv.
I saw this morning Channel twelve, which is Israeli on television. They're reporting that they're making preparations for a Wednesday or Thursday visit. So it's not confirmed. We'll see what happens. But it looks like Biden maybe had a to the region as well. But let's talk a little bit about the reception. Yes, that Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln has been getting in some of these countries. So this is from the Washing Post. Reporting just came out this morning,
so we don't have an element for it. But in Riad, Saudi ruler MBS kept blink and waiting overnight there was a meeting I was supposed to happen in the evening. Crown Prince did not show up till the next morning, very intentional. Once the meeting began, MBS stressed the need to stop the military operations that claim the lives of innocent people. They're talking about the Israeli offensive and lift the siege of Gaza that has left the Palestinian territory
without water, electricity, or fuel. That is according to the Saudi summary of the meeting. Crown Prince also called for a halt in the current escalation in the conflict, direct contradiction of US policy, which is back to Israel to pursue its maximus goal of eradicating Hamas. Similarly, Chili reception in Egypt with Ceci, who took note of I don't know if you remember, we played Anthony Blincoln's comments when he arrived in Israel saying I am here.
As a Jew.
Ceci says, you said, you are a Jew Wish person, and I am an Egyptian person who grew up next to Jews in Egypt. They have never been subjected to any form of oppression or targeting. Not true, but anyway, and it has never happened in our region that Jews were targeted in recent or old history.
Also not true.
Lincoln responded to CC saying, I come as a human being who is appalled by habasatrocities. But Sagar, you took particular note of what a diplomatic faux pas it was that Lincoln made here in Israel.
I was debating talking about this because I know it's so sensitive, but I will because clearly it's ignited a firestorm in the Middle East, which is Henry Kissinger, whenever he was in the midst of Israel negotiations at the height of the Am Kippur War, and all throughout his tenure, while trying to bring a solution to the crisis, always emphasized a neutral party in shuttle diplomacy to try and make sure that the Arab States did not view him
as like some sort of quote Jewish plant, not my words. That's what he was trying to avoid the appearance of. And he famously told the Israeli Prime Minister gold in my air quo uote Golden, you must remember first, I am an American, Second, I am Secretary of State. Third I am a Jew. She famously responded, quote, Henry, you forget an Israel that we read from right to left. It was a great quip and it's famous for her wittiness.
But the emphasis that he was trying to make all throughout his Shuttle diplomacy was I am here on behalf of President Richard Nixon, who said some problematic things I think about Jews, as we all found out whenever the recordings came out. The point though, being that he always led with I'm here as a representati of the United States and a neutral arbiter who wants to try and bring this to a close, as an ally of Israel, but also an ally of actual balance in the Middle East.
I think that Anthony Blincoln, by going to Israel first, by leading with that which I can, of course understand on a human level from being raised told the stories of persecution, he did not understand that it would ignite both offense and conspiracy all across the Arab world. Telling
you this earlier. The thing is, in two thousand and six, the Arab world did not have as much social media, and we already saw the impact of social media during the so called Arab Spring ISLAMISMINT or whatever you want to call it. The point though, is that now in twenty twenty three, everybody's got data and everybody's got WhatsApp.
This stuff flies around all across the world. There are two billion Muslims on the planet, and the emotionality of the Palestine issue of Jerusalem, of the Alaxamsque is at a ten out of ten in terms of what it ignites. As we've all watched, there's a lot of Muslims all across the world, and even in the West are taken to the streets. So really, what I think we're watching is that the Arab States, both from Blincoln's rhetoric, from Biden's actions and everything in the last week, are like, Okay,
they're one hundred percent taking Israel side. They're not even trying to listen to our perspective, and we're watching as the entire Arab world from Cairo. Don't forget this, Cairo is the second largest recipient up until Ukraine, of US eight. We have paid these people eighty billion dollars over the last I think seventy something years, specifically as a counterweight to Israel and to try you know, there's a lot of legacy of it from Oslo and negotiations and all
those things in the past. The point, though, is that this is supposed to be a friendly regime, and to have our secretary of state slapped across the face effectively, rhetorically, yeah, in a meeting like this, in a public was a direct signal to the rest of the Arab world. And I also think of some small d democratic sentiment where people are furious I think with Anthony Blincoln for that,
rightfully or not. I'm just trying to explain how a lot of people there are going to internalize a comment like that.
Also, when you lead with your religious identity, you instantly pour fuel on the fire of what is already a very sectarian conflict, and that is the polar opposite of the direction that we want to go in. You know, if you want to preserve any credibility as some sort of a go between a negotiator an actual diplomat, you have to try to maintain some semblance of neutrality. Another thing you should keep in mind about Cci he is no Islamus. He has been jailing a bunch of Islamists
in Egypt. So for him to take offense in such a way that he, as you said, sort of like smacks Blincoln in this very public rebuke is quite noteworthy Egypt. Also, obviously, you know a critical actor in terms of if we're actually serious about some sort of a humanitarian corridor there, we're going to be negotiating directly with them, and Egypt has historically played a really critical role as a negotiator
to try to achieve ceasefires and calm between these two parties. So, you know, huge huge misstep there from Blincoln and night and day between. Before you had the the Abraham Accords under the Trump administration, you had this new effort at Saudi normalization with Israel under the Biden administration, the idea being We're just going to pretend like these Palestinians and this whole little issue over here does.
Not even exist. Those days are long gone.
Yeah, I think that's right, And that is the big takeaway about US policy and how it's being received. It actually connects to our next important segment around the geopolitics in the region, and also about the increasing likelihood that I think everyone needs to prepare themselves that the United States is this close from getting involved in this conflict, regardless of what these people say. President Biden frankly even setting the ground for that in his sixty minutes interview,
saying we can do both. We can have a conflict in the Middle East and embroils US where the world's petroleum supply. We can have a conflict happening in Ukraine which is draining US weapons stack piles because we're America.
Man, here's what he had to say.
Are the wars in Israel and Ukraine more than the United States can take on at the same.
Tary of the United States of America, for God's sake, the most powerful nation in the history, not in the world, history of the world, the history of the world. We can take care of both of these and still maintain our overall international defense.
We can take care of both of these and maintain our overall international defense and crystal. Once upon a time, we may have believed that post I Rock and post Afghanistan, post shipping AMMO to Ukraine and depleting our weapons stock piles, post COVID finding out that we don't make anything in this country, that is just absolutely not true. There is a very limited amount of military firepower that we have
access to now. Yes, that is far more than everybody else on the planet, but it is not infinite and endless as we once thought that it was. For example, we are now committing extraordinary amounts of military resources to the Eastern Mediterranean. Let's put this up there on the screen. Unprecedented. The United States is now sending a second air aircraft carrier to the Eastern Mediterranean.
The US S.
Eisenhower will join the USS forward off of Israe in the Eastern Mediterranean region. Secretary of Defense said that he was beginning moving to the Eastern med Quote as part of our effort to deter hostile actions against Israel or any efforts toward widening this war following Hamasa's attack on Israel. This of course is meant to really be a deterrence against Iranian involvement. But something you talked about yesterday and
which again bears highlighting. Please put this up there on the screen, is a secret message has been communicated via Tehran to Tel Aviv. They warn Israel through the United
Nations against a ground offensive in Gaza. What they said via the UN was this, if you go into Gaza in a full scale invasion and a major offensive and it results in mass civilian death, that Iran does not want to be in this conflict, it does not want to be into a regional war, but that they will have no choice and they stressed quote Iran has red lines. He said that if the Israeli military operation continues, and especially if Israel follows through on its promise of a
ground offensive, Iran will have to respond. That is almost certainly a threat of Hezbolah increasing involvement. Already we have minor clashes that are happening in a possible two front scenario. We could put this up there on the screen. Confirmed by the Times of Israel. One person has already been killed in Israel in a renewed Hesbola missile attack, and the IDF is heavily restricting the Lebanon border area, in addition to rocket fire and other things that are exchanged
across both sides. That is the complete nightmare scenario in signs of even more widening conflict.
For example, put this up there. Just a couple of days ago.
Israel bombed one of the major Aleppo airports in Syria and actually put it out of service because they said that it was the source of missile attacks and has previously had simultaneous missile attacks by IDF forces, for example in Damascus. All of this just shows us that you could easily have a spiraling scenario where one wrong person is killed where and.
Exactly as I've laid out before.
If we get into a scenario where mass death happens inside Gaza, I'm talking ten to fifty thousand and fifty thousand to one hundred thousand civilians, then it is just there is simply no scenario in my mind where Hesbola and the regional actors do not get involved in some way, maybe Crystal, they don't declare official war.
It doesn't matter. These are non state actors in and of itself.
And you could have a flocking to Syria, to the borders all surrounding Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Egypt, Jordan and Syria, where global like a call for global jihad happens, just like happening in Isis, you'll have a swarming inside of the country, suicide bombers, all the other nightmare that we
saw in Mosl and throughout the Islamic State. And there's from the posture that we already have and the rhetoric in the United States, do you really not see how close we are right now to war with Iran, or war with hesbel Lot, or US getting involved even from a you know, from an air perspective, don't forget what happened in Libya. And the thing is is that, let's say, even if we do avoid a war with Iran, well, our intervention with Libya was no peach and the destruction
of the entire country. We could see regimes toppled even by this. If they work with the US, they're going to face major pushback from their own populations. If they declare war, they could you know, end themselves up in a problem. Who knows the level of destabilization that could
enter this. So I think everyone needs to really keep in mind we are entering a period of extreme uncertainty, and with this much firepower dedicated in this region and direct US backing for whatever happens, we could easily find ourselves in this, in this conflict in days from now.
Easily it could happen.
You're going to hear some of this when we play for you our focus group. The American people very very sympathetic to Israel and what they're going for and mostly behind their actions in Gaza. Very different question when you ask about do you support us getting more directly involved? A very different question if you're talking about an active, hot war with Iran and I don't think anyone should delude themselves about what a chaotic and dangerous situation that
we're in right now. I thought doctor Parsi had a good thread about how even though it appears that none of the three parties, Iran, Israel, or the US actually wants to go to war, even that being the case, there is still a very real possibility that we end up in one in spite of that, because of the actions that the three parties are taking. In particular, he says, Israeli success in Gaza will give Israel freer hands to
go after Hesbla. Hesbela may not be able to prevent an Israeli victory, but it will have a compelling interest to turn it Puric and by that make it too costly for Israel to extend it into Lebanon. So the idea being, if Israel is too brutal in Gaza, Hezbela will feel compelled to get more directly involved. You're already seeing this sporadic fighting as it is. Hesbelah's involvement, in turn,
will bring Iran much more directly into the conflict. Aroun's foreign ministers warned that unless Israel stops its attacks, the war will be widened in Israel will suffer quote a huge earthquake. Those are the comments that we were mentioning before Iran and Hesbla's involvement will pressure Biden to intervene
despite clear US interest in staying out. There is little in Biden's conduct that suggests he will prioritize America's long term strategic interest over what is politically expedient for him in the immediate term. Direct American military intervention in Gaza or against HESBLA and Iran is all but certain to generate major attacks against US troops throughout the Middle East.
So there is that's the chain of escalation that could quickly get out of hand based on the actions that all three of these parties are already taking in their reas y.
Yes, exactly, and just to again underscore about what I was talking about previously with respect to Anthony Blincoln and how he has been badly received in the Middle East. We are realigning old adversaries towards each other who are united against US and against Israel by proxy. Put this up there on the screen. For example, Iran's president and the Saudi Crown Prince NBS spoke for the very first time ever in history that did not happen as a
result of US diplomacy trying to get Saudi Israel. Instead, we realigned the two of them where they agreed on a call to watch what currently happens in the Gaza strip and to come out against Israeli airstrikes, just to give people an example of how these governments will be either forced by their own policy or by their people to respond to the actions that are inside and which will absolutely impact US policy, US troops, even if we don't end up in an actual nation state war, it's
a nightmare enough to be involved with na should state actors. Ask anybody who fought against ISIS or AQI or any of those others inside of Iraq, and it just means more instability, more chaos, more likelihood of a domestic terror attack here at home, which then invites more foreign intervention abroad. All of these are parts of a very very vicious cycle of which there absolutely is a major, major risk
right now ahead. And it's clear that the US policymakers are either to inept or don't care, or are I guess desirable for this sort of outcome based upon the entire bipartisan system that in the way it's operating right now. Anyway, you teased our focus group and how voters are thinking about this. We've got James, our moderator, standing by and an addition, will show you the clips.
Let's get to it.
As you mentioned, very excited to have some focus group results to bring you all. We're going to bring this to you all. This week they tackled a whole variety of topics, but today we wanted to keep the focus on Israel and gozen So joining us to break down the results. We have James Johnson of Jail Parks Or, who was there conducting the focus group.
Great to see Usar, thank you, great to see too, fur So.
Keep in mind, guys, these were democratic base voters in and around Atlanta. Let's take a listen to what they thought about what's going on in Israel and Gaza.
I'm sure some of people have seen in the news or something that's been dominating in the news recently. Is with the events that have been happening in Israel, in the Middle East, obviously in Gaza as well.
How closely, if at all, are you following this.
I was interested to see because I thought this could be the first of a lot of bad things that could happen in the Middle East, especially like was saying, with Russia and Ukraine, and I feel like a lot of things are often uneasy, And I was also worried to see if this would lead to any kind of anti Semitic or anti islam sentiments both in Western Europe and the US outside of what was going on.
In the Middle East.
I try to look at both sides because it seems like each side has been kind of hammering at the other one for so long that it's hard to take sides. I just feel really sad for the humanitarian crisis. I mean, one point one million people being forced to leave their homes and they have twenty four hours to do that. Where are they going to go?
For me, I needed to educate myself more about the history before, you know, trying to choose a side, because I know through throughout, especially on social media, a lot of people are taking side. So I took more of the stance and was trying to educate myself about the history of both countries to kind of get a better understanding of like how did they get to this point today?
Probably innocent victims would be number one for me, some concerns for America and also sadness for my Jewish friends.
I was watching and they was talking about all the peoples that had died and how they did the children and how they cut the babies and children heads off. It was like kind of really disturbing. You know, what's going on in the area is terrible. When is it gonna end or with?
What do you think Israel's response is going to be?
Now?
Well, I fear that we're going to escalate so that more countries will have to get involved, and so it will end up being something much more major and a lot more people are going to die.
Well, I feel like Israel is always really hardcore when it comes to defending themselves, and so they're gonna just blast the Palestinians.
Retaliation was the first thought that came to my mind.
That's scary.
I'm worried that there's been a weird situation where Israel's going to say that they haven't committed any war crimes because they tell the people of Palestine they have twenty four hours to move out when they don't have the ability to do that, and then when civilians do die, Israel's going to say that they didn't commit war crimes. Obviously Palestine's going to say that they do. And it's going to be a weird situation because Israel has the
support of the UN and Palestine doesn't. But palsin does have the local support of it the entire region other than Israel, and so I think it's going to end up with even worse relations between the Western world in Israel versus all of the rest of their reas.
If there is now an invasion of Gaza by Israel, which is being talked about, I think it's being referred to as a ground invasion and occupation. Is that a reasonable response? Is that an unreasonable response from Israel? And why? I mean, how do you feel about that?
That's so hard for me to say, because I don't want anybody to be fighting. I don't want anybody to be losing their lives. But you also have to people have to protect their citizens too, So I.
Think there's a reasonable response. You should have stayed in your place and not this alone. I don't think you can go to the country's land and you know, do that and not expect the response back.
We got to protect that says that not just for them, that's for everyone. It is really just trying to stand up and protect their people. You know they've been invaded, So what do you do?
Do you do nothing?
Is just that?
Or do you fight?
Thinking specifically about how President Biden's responded to the crisis so far, how do we feel you're doing well? You're doing badly.
I saw the biggest worship we have in our navy movies, the Air Force. It's the largest scholarship or so that they have. They put it in the Mediterranean, and I think that's a really good sign that we're there to support. I wouldn't want him to take action against the Palestinians, but I like that he's showing the US as a presence.
I agree that I don't want him to take action. We have our own issues to deal with.
My opinion is he doesn't quite know what to do yet or what to say. He's maybe still thinking everything through it in the options and doing a wait and see.
Good thing. We're bad thing? To me, it's a good thing.
What role should the US play now? Should they be trying to break a peace? Should they be supporting Israel militarily? Should they be doing something else? What? What should the US do in response.
Now continue to partake Israel because I think the majority are blesses and I'm spiritual a lot, but I'm used to kind of natural because I've been praying for Israel since you know, God say me, so, I say they gonna be He's gonna be full forced to protect Israel.
Costs, coasts, all costs.
It's no answer.
What you're gonna do to protect Israel.
I think the US now should also do what they can to protect the innocent victims in Israel. I mean, there's so many children, Yeah, and it's heartbreaking.
What does that mean though?
That mean?
Yeah, well you're president, but what.
Does that mean?
It just goes back to my whole. I just don't want there to be any more.
And if we I feel like, if we take a super strong stance, it's not going to stop, and it's going it's gonna get worse.
We go over there and like step in, it could be a lot worse.
I think they should maintain the original borders that Israel had to protect Israel, but also not have them push a ground war into the Godsa Strip. If they need to have a military presence to protect Israel, I would get behind that, but moving anything into what currently or as of two weeks ago, palaced in Inland, I think is too far.
I don't think we should get involved militarily. I think you mentioned something about broker in peace. I think that's important. I think probably we would provide humanitarian aid for those who have been displaced, help with the refugees, and kind of dovetailing off of what he said, I think providing intelligence and targeting Hamas because there's so many innocent people who are involved in Just like in this country, everybody wants to live a happy, peaceful life, and these folks
lives have been disrupted by this terrorist group. So just like we targeted al Qaida, we need to go, you know, target Hamas.
I mean the role that I would like them to play is just to kind of just be like that mediary like for both sides, so they can just get to some time of peace or resolution, because in the sense of like all these innocent lives on both.
Sides, they're dying.
They have nothing to do with this war and this conflict. This was going on for years, so it's just unfair to the general population on both sides of what's.
You know, happen to them now.
I just think that when you start getting involved and then it's just gonna escalating, they may bring all of that here. It's like, what's gonna bring peace?
What's gonna bring peace?
I think that we should provide some humanitarian aid, try to broke your peace. But I also think we need to pay attention to the other regions of the world because I think they're watching us closer to see what the response is gonna be.
Who would support in principle US military involvement.
I think that you just gonna get in there and just wipe them out and be through with it, you know, to wipe out that people that's fighting again Israel. I think that I think he should be for is real at all.
College cool, I guess, because right now what's happing on is just innocent people dying on both sides that are dying.
So zach ceriance, you know, just to clarifying.
Yeah, but we got the ready that we didn't start the war, you know, and we wasn't really a part of the war. The war wasn't for us, but by the United States standing for Israel. I think they need to stand for fourth.
I'm just for peace. I just feel like, what would bring peace? You said nothing, no peace, But I don't agree with people dying.
This is just the beginning of wars and roumans of wars.
I mean, more stuff gonna happen that we don't see going on with Israel, and.
I would support military involvement as long as they stay within the current borders of Israel West anyone.
Else, I would just support sending in peacekeepers.
I'd rather.
Stay out of it, but if we had to, then.
We have to.
I'm thinking that a defensive posture for Israel would be okay. I wouldn't want to see us take any offensive action.
I think the rest of the world is watching to see what we're going to.
Do, really really interesting. Obviously you have a wide variety of views there. You know, people are saying, just want peace. I think Mary is in the front row, who you know, is very adamant, like we should get in there at
all costs. What was the energy in the room because one of the things, honestly that I was struck by after you know, we spent so much time online seeing just the like insanely like outright genocidal talk and hatred and vitriol on both sides, that they were even able to have this conversation which is very emotionally fraught with a variety of opinions, in like a human, respectful kind of way.
Yeah, I think it's a reminder not to underestimate the public. You know, they are capable of having noticed these things and talking about it in an intelligent way. You saw a range of opinions there, as you say, Mary and a couple of others on the more strident side, others a bit more of the sort of view of well, there are both sides, we need to look at peace. I think two things run through that group as a whole. One was is that they're quite sort of up for being led on this issue.
I took that away too, that if you had someone coming out make it a strong message or whatever the media is saying, you could see them being very swede by people that they trusted.
On the issue exactly, and particularly if it came from Biden. We'll see later through the week. You know their views on President Biden. But actually there's a respect for him amongst this group, and they think they think of him an experienced figure who can sort of help lead them through. So certainly on that side. I think there is that leadership point. And the second thing that came through is that you know, this is the Democrat base in Atlanta.
These are Democrat primary voters. Polling tends to show them being a little bit more on the liberal side of perhaps democratic leadership, and particularly Joe Biden. You saw here a more strident military role being called for by them than we've already even heard from the Biden administration so far. Even the more softly spoken members of that group were quite up for having US troops in Israel defending their
current borders. So, you know, a much more strident view, perhaps a little bit unexpected if you looked at what the polling might say.
Yeah, it is fascinating.
I mean, that's why we like doing these and we like you being able to tease them out, is because we get to things here and see things that you know, not even in the public realm and not even necessarily how people would think comport with you know, supposed public opinion polling. What else did you notice in terms of the conversation, not just Israel, Gaza and all that, but their ability to disagree with each other. Where were the broad agreements and disagreements and what were the contours. Was
it about media diet, was it age? Like where did you see these things start to break apart?
I think there's an age element for sure. I think the younger and more people more likely to get news from sources other than cable news. There was a bit more of a sort of openness to what perhaps was going on the other side, that sort of both sides ism, I suppose you sort of saw coming through there for the younger groups, the older groups much more of a sort of cultural affinity with Israel. And you saw that
exemplified by Mary so clearly. Yeah, you know, for her, as she said, there, you know God and Jesus had saved her, and she said, you know, she prays for Israel in the same way that she prays to God. So there's that cultural affinity for her there that perhaps wasn't so clear in the younger groups. But look, another thing that unified group was the horror and discuss of what had happened. There was no sort of conspiracy theory
in there. There was no sort of sense that Israel might have Mani placed these images, which is one of the theory you know of one of the crazier conspiracy theories going around online. There was a sense of, you know, of real sort of abject horror what happened. And it's interesting because that's quite different from what we see in our UK focus groups. There there's a lot more sort of doubt and conspiracy, and I think we see that in Europe as well, and a lot more of a
sort of doubt about what what Israel are saying. I think it comes down to that cultural affinity point, you know, in the US and Israel stronger allies.
Well, I think that's absolutely right, and the media here has consistently been much more pro Israel and has done very little to ever centerity the humanity of Palestinian. So you mentioned while we were watching, there was a real conflation oftentimes of Humas and the Palestinian people, and a number of participants you know, really didn't have a clear
line in their mind between these two groups. Another thing that's stuck out to me as at odds with how the Biden administration has positioned themselves is you had, you know, the majority of the group saying we want peace, we don't want war, we want to send in peacekeepers, we want you know, we want negotiations, we want to plumac, we want the US to be involved in that. Whereas you had Kareem Jean Pierre as representative the Biden White
House saying calls for a ceasefire quote unquote repugnant. You had a memo going out to State Department officials saying we do not want you using words about ending the bloodshed, ending the violence, restoring calm, or cease fire. So in that way, the Biden administration appears to be very dissonant with where a bulk of the group is, outside of a few like Mary, who you know, was very clear about how her faith is very much informing her view of this conflict as well.
I think that's where we get, you know, public opinion and policy rubbing up against each other. Some of the people in the group who talks about the need for peace and peacekeepers and you know, we just need to make sure we minimize civilian lives. When I push them on the how quite fairly, they didn't. They didn't know how, And I think you know that that's where we're going
to see a bit of a bit of attention. The other thing I felt about that group was it was pretty they've got a very bleak view of where this is going to head. There's no optimism in here.
I don't know how you could have other than them.
Yeah.
Absolutely, But you know, they also thought that this would spill into a potential global conflict, even potentially with the US involved.
Right, James, how much are they paying attention? That's one thing that struck me is I was like, wow, you know, in the particularly the younger gentlemen, I was like, this guy is reading the news. And I talk a lot about here on the show, the news is not centered for the vast majority of people.
You know, they're going about their lives.
They may tune in every once in a while, but this seemed like a pretty informed group. Now, of course they are primary voters, they're probably going to be more engaged than normal, but it did seem like they were playing pretty close attention to the situation right now.
Yeah, I think this is one of these rare moments where people turn on table news and they watched the live footage. And I know that a couple of reporters said that over the weekend last weekend, after the attacks, they're on planes and they were seeing you know, sort of twenty five fifty percent of people on the plane watching the the live cable news you know shows which
they never has it. Yeah, right, So I think I think this was this was one of those rare moments where it's a cable news moment, and obviously that's not go a hold, but I think that informs a bit of what we saw that I think you're.
Right, James, just give us a little bit of a preview of some of the other interesting divides that we're going to be sharing with our audience here throughout the week.
Absolutely so, we sent it in on President Biden's leadership as well as Kamala Harris. So we saw some really interesting insights. I won't spoil it, but it might not be the best reading for Kamala Harris, the best listening for for Kamala Harris.
Mary I heard had some strong people.
I love that.
Later we also did this fantastic exercise where we asked the respondents to draw what they thought Biden would be if he was an animal and Trump would be if he was an animal. And we've got some great artwork for you. That's such a cool you know what, It's entirely down to one of my colleagues. I can't take credit for this idea, but it was genius and it tells you a lot about how they see the few candidates. So lots more coming in store.
Okay, okay, Well, I just want to thank all of us a premium subscribers. You guys enable us to be able to do this news content that some other channels are not doing. Jail partners James as well of course, and shout out to Adam Duffy, a college newspaper guy from Atlanta who helped out our crew as well. That's from Griffin as well as all of our crew that was able to travel down there to Atlanta. You guys are the ones helping enable and pay for this, so
we thank you all very much. Breakingpoints dot com if you are able and James, we are going to have great content featured by you all over our channels being.
Great job leading these discussions and making people feel comfortable expressing whatever it is their opinion is.
So thank you so much.
Yes, thank you, guying Absolutely It's not the last time we'll be working together, so we'll see you again. At the same time, we are tracking global public opinion. There have been massive protests all across the world. We can show you some video from the here you can see in London right in the middle of the UK.
This is in Cairo. Here we have New.
York City, we have continuing in Glasgow and Scotland. We have Aman, Jordan. The Jordanian one in particular was massive. This is in Lahore in Pakistan, Dublin in Ireland. These been put together by Al Jazeerra Cape Town, South Africa, where their president also voice support Baghdad.
In Iraq, Naples in Italy.
The point that we're trying to put together here, Crystal is that yes, we've seen massive pro Israel protests of course here in the United States, but a major highlight from these is cities with large Islamic populations and then also Islamic and Arab countries themselves, is seeing a huge
outpouring of protests for the Palestinian cause. The reason again that this connects to our geopolitics segment that we did earlier, is about dragging the US possibly further into the conflict, mobilizing much of the world against US if we do not finesse our policy here very very carefully. It also comes at a time when Western governments are really beginning to crack down on dissent in their own countries put this up there on the screen. We have a bit
of a mash up here. For example, from the Independent flying a Palestinian flag in the UK quote may not be legitimate according to their Home secretary. In France, they have ordered a ban on all pro Palestinian protests from the Interior minister themselves in order to quote clamp down on anti Semitism. From Haretz, the Lacude Minister has formulated an emergency regulation to imprisoned citizens who quote.
Harm national morale.
This is inside of Israel, to be clear, that's like alien and sedition level stuff. And then even here I gotta say not too happy about this one, Senator Josh Holly calling for the DOJ to investigate student led pro Palestinian groups on college campuses person all weaponization. The governments really like to keep our FBI out of student groups. Didn't go so well the last time that that happened,
even if you know any group in particular. And finally, in terms of social media, it has been such a nightmare for our team sifting what is true what is not, to try and frame everything and make sure and be like, hey, this is from al Jazeero, So it's got a pro Palestinian bias. Hey, this is from BBC or whatever from the West, so it's got this type of bias. But the problem is that we are seeing mass censorship now
applied on social media. We can put this up there, for example, on the screen from Meta aka Facebook suspending the page of the Kuds News network. That's a Palestinian news organization that, to be clear, is affiliated with Hamas. I'm not defending their affiliation or any of that, but I do think it is important. As always, I spoke up for our tea and I'll speak up for it now. Is I want to know what these people are saying. You know, it was a very important moment Chris, when
we played here on the show. That translated segment from a HAMAS leader being like, hey, we're going to slaughter people if we don't see if we have air strikes that continue. It's important to hear what the quote unquote enemy or with the other side is saying, just to be like, okay, this is what they're telling people in
terms of their internal communications. It is actually to be able to see and to hear, and we can always I think all of us are smart enough to take things with a grain of salt and to sit here and to actually try and look at things in context. And so to see the banning of this massive Facebook page which was like a center for sharing information, I understand why people are like, oh, but we have to crack.
Down on it.
But at the end of the day, less information just means we're more in the dark. And that's more that we have to rely on, you know, somebody else's translation or somebody else's view of what's happening with this and this. I just I really would venture to say, not a single person on earth is going to be like pro Israel. Then see a Goods News Network thing shared to their page and be like, you know what, Nope, now I'm Palestinian.
But it's not how the world works.
Well, it's especially critical in a situation like this when I mean there are very few journalists allowed into Gaza. I mean in terms of getting actual information, video footage, etc. From the ground, it is really important to have it as many sources as we possibly can. And you know, this is something we stood up for our Tea when they were getting banned all over the place. Not that we have any love for them, They're not full of
propaganda and all that stuff as well. So it's you know, about applying a consistent principle here and this is not. This is far from the first time that Facebook slash Meta has worked directly with the Israeli government who told them you need to censor or take down this and that and the other group in a similar fashion that they, you know, have also worked with the United States government.
I'm sure other governments around the world. I just want to give you to give you a sense of how wild and insane and heavy handed some of this censorship has become. I mean, on its face, banning protests in France, also in Germany, and this is not you know, we're just going to ban like if you're pro Homa, no any sympathize sympathy with the Palestinian cause.
That protest completely banned. That is wild.
This proposed regulation with in Israel, which there's a lot of talk about, oh Israel, the Middle easterns, democracy, etc.
Etc.
Which you know, the Palestinians will live in Israel, may beg to differ. But what is being suggested here is that these regulations would allow the Communications Minister directly to tell police to arrest civilians remove them from their homes or seize their property if he personally believes that they have spread information that could quote harm national morale or
serve as the basis for enemy propaganda. This was drafted in consultation with National Security Minister in Amar Ben Gavier, who is one of, if not the most extreme member of Natanyahu's cabinet. It would apply to the general public and the media as well as both local, local and foreign media. Will also apply to the publication of factually correct statements at the Minister's discretion. So it is the most dystopian, big Brother nightmarish thing you can poss imagine
that is being proposed here. And you know, Soger, this issue has always even when emotions intentions are not as high as they are right now, this issue and how you talk about Israel and Palestine, i would argue, has always been the most central locus of quote unquote cancel culture, especially when you consider explicit laws against supporting the DS which have been enacted in a lot of states across
the country. When you see the number of jobs that have been lost, calumnists have lost their jobs, you know, university positions which have been canceled, et cetera. And and we're about to get into this when you see the reaction to that statement which I objected to, that Harvard student groups put out. But it's not just hey, let's you know, call it out and say we disagree. It's we want to know who they are, we want to dock them, we want to blacklist them for literally their
entire lives. That is the reaction to saying the quote unquote wrong thing on this issue.
Yeah, look, we know a lot of people who are pro Israel who are getting caught up in the moment and who otherwise would not be for or would oppose much of that type of action that is happening here because they could also recognize that it would be very easily used against them on a whole host of other issues that they care about. Now, if you care about this the most and trying to crack down on it this at the time, but then you just have to
admit that you're really not for principles. And that's the issue is we watched this happen with Russia. Remember at that you know, in the invasion of Ukraine, we had what the Russian tennis players that weren't allowed at Wimbledon, we had like the banning of Russia. You know, there's actually a restaurant near where I live which is a Russian Uzbek cuisine. They took the word Russian off their side.
Wow.
You know here in Washington there was a famous restaurant Russia House, where I think either it took its signed down or something like that, which used to you know again serve Russian food and drinks and all those things, And now I don't believe, you know, advertises because they were facing vandalism. This level of insan reminds me very much of like the post nine to eleven period and exactly what do we all look back on freedom Fries
as fucking stupid? Like, let's all be on really, I cannot believe that this country ever backed the freedom Fries thing.
And that was the least of it. Think of the national security state. Think of the Patriot Act. Think of the surveillance of citizens that was justified by you know, the horrific acts terror attacks of nine to eleven. Think of what that allowed, the power that that allowed politicians
to grab in the name of national security. Think of the way that the FBI was used to rather than actually fighting crime, and keeping people safe, to entrap young muslim Men so that they could have some big press conference and some big steam of disrupting staying and disrupt a terrorist attack that was never going to happen if they weren't like radicalizing people and buying them, buying them guns and give the money and convincing them that they
should conduct a terror attack. So do not underestimate the insanity that can come with this type of justifiable upset and emotion and desire for people to stay safe. And we are seeing it spread like wildfire around the globe.
Just look, don't get caught up in the hysteria, you know. And then, just the short amount of time you and I have been doing the show, just this show Breaking Points, We've lived through three major conflicts Afghanistan, Ukraine and now Israel and Hamas, and we see a consistent period every time. Both of our beliefs are very much rooted in the insanity of the post nine to eleven world, and anything that reminds me of that, I start to get very
very skeptical. I think it will generally serve you well to keep that skepticism, especially when we're in the heat of things and six months or seven months before you can look back our six seven months later, you can look back and be like, yeah, that was pretty silly. So just try and avoid being that person.
To the next one.
This is a really fun discourse that has erupted that I've watched, absolutely rip the right apart.
Where do we oppose canceler culture at.
All times or not especially whenever it comes to college students, Krystal, I thought you and I had for a fun discussion about this.
People can go watch it.
It was a post on our channel on Friday, and a war has broken out by two conservative commentators. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. First was from Megan Kelly. She was actually responding to something from a Vake Ramaswami, which will show you, but she effectively is saying, quote that it is unable to persuade college students that quote murdering babies is wrong. There's no
persuading them. We don't hire those who do the killing, and we don't hire those who applaud killers while the savagery is underway, if you are open to hiring one of those lunatics, though, good to know. This actually was responded to by Candice Owens. So let's put this up there on the screen. This is an important corollary to her discourse. She says, Oh, stop it. This is incredible disingenuous, Megan.
You know that many of those students are not out there because they want babies to be murdered.
College kids are stupid. I used to be radically pro choice.
I'm glad I didn't get put on a conservative black pavist for wanting babies murdered. As it turned out, I was just young and temporarily brainwashed from a public school education coupled with mainstream Hollywood lies, and not because I legitimately wanted to see inference torn from their mother's wombs. Doctor Thomas Sole used to be a radical socialist who ardently supported communism. Thankfully he wasn't put on a conservative blacklist, and he was accused of being a person who wanted
worldwide suffering and starvation as socialism and communism bring. Students are young and experimenting. You're an adult woman who's advocating for their lives to be permanently pigeonholed because they have the wrong ideas, which they are likely being spoon fed in the classroom, and you know, I got to say.
I actually thought it.
Was an important kind of addendum to all of the discourse around this, because I have watched people who I think correctly have decried all of these efforts in the past, absolutely sign on to this one now. I did, you know, I made a comment previously about like trying to distinguished between undergrad and law student, but especially with the undergraduate. I think Megan is encompassing within that. I just you know,
absolutely oppose like anybody undergraduate who's involved in this. As Candace said, people do and say a lot of stupid things, you know, when they are young.
That doesn't mean.
They don't deserve to be employed, you know, later on and follow this for them for the rest of their life. And as Candace correctly says, people change their minds all the time.
In fact, this will probably be a learning learning thing.
They're like, hey, I probably shouldn't just you know, co sign whatever somebody puts in front of me for quote unquote solidarity purposes. I should think for myself, that can be a good lesson without having to then endure permanent you know, professional blacklist.
Crews yah from some of the most powerful people in the country, CEOs billionaires, conservative commentators, et cetera. Definitely, Just so everyone's clear what we're talking about here, Can you guys put D seven up on the screen the part of this Harvard statement, because the when Meghan characterizes it, it sounds like they were like, we want babies to be murdered. The part that people objected to from the Harvard student statement, which is there under the Instagram label
they're on the right. They say, we, the undersigned student organization, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. As I said before. To me, that's insane, Like I am perfectly comfortable criticizing the Israelis as I do their government, the apartheid regime, the blockade, the war crimes. You can do all of that and also say, you know what, the terrorists in Hamas who massacred Israeli innocent civilians at a music festival are also to blame.
They do share blame for the unfolding violence.
Okay, so that's my issue, but that's what they said, they hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding months. Look at this tear sheet in the New York Times on the other side from opinion columnist Brett Stevens. Hamas
bears the blame for every death in this war. It's the exact same logic what the Israeli government which is decided to conduct this complete siege and deny all of the innocent civilians within Gaza, water electricity, food, force a million of them to evacuate in a humanitarian crisis, bomb civilian infrastrure. They don't bear any blame for that, They have no culpability. So that's allowed to be published in the New York Times with zero controversy response, no problem whatsoever.
Harvard student groups.
Use the very same, completely flawed logic, and there is an absolute vendetta out for these young people's heads of we want you ducks, we want you blacklisted. We're funding a truck to put your faces on it and say you're anti Semites, to drive around the town. We want you named and shamed and to be drummed out of polite society forever. How do we feel about this conflict? We need to have some space for grace and learning
and evolution and growth in this country. And that is why I have always been opposed to this sort of approach. Whether it's an issue I happen to have more sympathy for, or if it's one I vehemently oppose because this is a nightmarish direction to go in.
Yeah, and let's give credit where due. All of this was sparked by Vivek Ramaswami, presidential candidate. Let's put this up there on the screen. He put out this statement quote, the Harvard students who co sign the anti Israel letter are simple fools. But it is not productive for companies to blacklist kids for being members of student groups that make dumb political statements on campus. Colleges are spaces for students to experiment with ideas, and sometimes kids join clubs
that endorse boneheadedly wrong ideas. I have been as vocal as anyone in creditizing left wing cancel culture. But it is bad no matter who practices it. It wasn't great when people were wearing Trump hats were fired from work, and it wasn't great when college graduates couldn't get hired unless they have signed oppressive DEI pledges. It's not great now if companies refuse to hire kids who are part of student groups that once adopted the wrong views on Israel.
This is not a legal point, it's a cultural point. I say, this is someone who vihently disagrees with those student groups. Those calling for blacklisting students right now are responding from a place of understandable hurt. But I am confident that in the fullness of time they will agree with me on the wisdom of avoiding these cancel culture tactics. And this also, as I said, is splintering much of the institutional right. Here's a good example here that we
can put on the screen. Ben Dominic the husband of Megan McCain and a prominent conservative commentator here in Washington. He says, quote, if Charlie Kirk remains the head of TPUSA, the right has an anti Semite problem that will follow them into coming elections. The real beef by Ben was Charlie bringing up Israeli intelligence failures and saying that he didn't want to wait until later and wanted to dwell on it right now. Charlie, for example, is having to
fight back against this. Let's put this up there on the screen. He put out of this long tweet statement. For the last four years, I've been accused of being a Jewish shill sponsor three hundred people year to visit Israel, et cetera. We kicked out a Jew hater at an event we have successfully thwart at BDS campaigns.
This type of libel is poison.
You know nothing of what you speak except a two minute clip where I ask questions about the intelligence failures of the Israeli government which were reported by Axios and others. If stuff like this continues, Israel will lose support from a major faction of voices on the right support Israel, and you get called a Jew hater. This is a repugnant lie from the pit of hell. You should be ashamed.
I think it just demonstrates once again the level of vitriol you know on the issue, and already seeing a splinter not only you know, much of the left, but also on the right. You know, in terms of trying to prove your bona fides about who is more pro Israel or not. None of this ends up standing in the long run, you know, in the long run, none
of this ends up looking particularly good. So I did appreciate the comments by Candae and by Vivek, and also I do think at tracks to a foreign policy commitment. We didn't end up putting this into the show, but there was a big, you know, divine between you know,
Ben Shapiro and Candace on this. Candace is like, I think America should only care about our borders and not get involved in the rest of the world, whereas Shapiro eviscerated you know, Tucker Carlson for effectively saying the same thing. He's like, well, we should care more about our border
than we do about other countries. It's a very common sentiment, I think, and that itself will also further split apart the right should war come on the table, because the main criticism right now of Biden, if anything, from the institutional right is that he's not pro Israel enough and not willing enough to bomb Iran or get involved in a conflict. So this is the same ideological fissure I think that exists on that.
Yeah, I mean, it's nice to see that there are a few people who are trying to remain consistent with some sort of principle, because it's rare that you see that. You know, oftentimes people when it's their side that's being canceled, they care a lot. When it's something they disagree with, suddenly they're really silent. And this issue in particularn't Israel bad?
This has always been like the main area of silence on the right when it comes to cancel culture, because this is an insistent thing that comes up, as I said, even when you're not in incredibly heightened moments. So you know, as much as there was and continues to be a lot of censorship around views on the Russia Ukraine situation,
certain things you're really not allowed to say. You'd be branded as the Putin puppet, and Cumlin a poll of this sort of stuff, it really is magnified and amplified on this issue where there are so many deep personal connections and ties and just a lot of very very fraught and understandable, frankly emotions here as well.
Yes, you're right, and it also highlights the height of emotions and the real reckoning that's happening inside of Israel. Let's get to this because this is a story that is not being properly reported by the American press. There is far more descent, vitriol and debate inside that country than there is in this country, which remains shocking to me. And just to show you from the Jerusalem Post, which is a right wing publication by the way inside of Israel.
Put this up there on the screen. Eighty six percent of respondents in the Jerusalem Post poll, including seventy nine percent of the Coalition government supporters, said that the attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.
Quote.
A staggering ninety two percent said that the war is causing anxiety. And furthermore, all the respondents ninety four percent believe the government must bear some responsibility for the lack of security preparedness that led to the assault, over seventy five percent saying the government holds most of the responsibilities.
That was the thing Charlie Kirk was trying to take exact us to be and.
The rest of it, as can you put it back up there on the screen, please, just because I want people to be able to see that as I read,
Netanyahu must resign, most Israelis say. New survey from six hundred and twenty Israelis from across the country found that the majority of respondents believed he should resign following the conclusion of the next operation quote a slim majority fifty six percent, but still twenty eight percent of Coalition view voters agreed, and fifty two percent said that the Defense Minister himself must also resign.
That highlights just the.
Immense amount of anger inside the country against the security establishment for which they have given up their children. They have given up years of their life in the IDF, They've given up all civil liberties that they ever had, or even had a pretense of. They gave up so much for the promise of being kept safe, which is what bebe ran on over and over and over again,
and people have taken to the streets. Here is one example of a foreign correspondent from ABC News in the midst of one of these protests.
Let's take a listen.
I think the concern is that if there is a significant ground incursion into Gaza, film that they're going to lose those hostages. Hamas has honeycombed all of Gaza with these tunnels. That's where they keep the militants, That's where they keep the rockets in their weapons. That's where it's believed they are keeping all.
Of the hostages.
They are the most valuable commodity in all of Gaza right now.
And I want to see what's going on here.
There appears to be a protest breaking out, some.
Anger with police.
Looks like they're taking over the road. I'm not exactly sure, but the anger here is that not enough is being done about the hostages, and Israel seems to be willing to fight in Gaza but not bring these people home. And basically, to a person here, we've been told that everybody is willing to give up the ten eleven thousand Palestinian prisoners being held in Israel in exchange for the one hundred and fifty or so, and that includes the Americans.
Of course, we're trying to figure out what's going on, but tensions have been.
High all afternoon.
At one point protesters here tried to block the entrance and there's a truck that kind of nudged up against them. Now they've taken over the street.
Right now, there you go.
I mean, you could see that was literally in the streets of Tel Aviv. And what he's pointing out is that there's a lot of concern in Israel about the hostages. This is something I highlighted last time around. But it's important to remember the Israeli population was very supportive of Bibie whenever he traded almost i believe Hamas or Palestinian prisoners for a single Israeli soldier, and it was because
people there all have a direct connection. They see themselves and their children in the eyes of the kids who in many cases you know, do not even necessarily want to serve in the military, who do end up there.
And then the last thing, you know, we debated putting this into our show, but just to explain before we play it is we don't want to say that this is all of Israeli sentiment, but again we want to play a voice of an Israeli American who has a very different view of how the government should respond to this conflict, just to show you not everybody inside of
Israel is, you know, clamoring for blood in Gaza. This was during an interview with CNN, and keeping in mind this is a person who lost a member of his family actually in the attack from Hamas.
Let's take a listen.
What I wanted to say is the most important for me, and I think also for my brother was that his death won't be used to kill innocent people. And sadly, my government are my government is using cynically the best of people to just kill like they promised us it was going to bring. It's going to bring us like security, But of course it's not security because they always tell us, oh that if we're going to kill n F Palestinians or they're gonna so it's going to be better for us.
But of course it never brings us peace and it never brings us better lives. It just brings more and more terror and more and more people killed like my brother, and I don't want anything to happen to people, and guys are like it happens the way brother, and I'm sure he wouldn't have any either. So that's my call to my government to stop killing instant people and that's not the way that brings us peace and security tool people in israelm that's a very.
Courageous statement by somebody who just lost their brother in a terrible terrorist attack. And yeah, again, look there are also a lot of people whose relatives were killed who are like, wipe them off the face of the earth, let's kill them all. So we're not pretending that's the majority sentiment, but I do think it's important for people to understand, you know, Israel is a country just like anybody else, with a lot of different people, and they're having a lot of descent and a lot of debate
over there. No, overwhelmingly they agree both that something needs to be done and that the government is to blame. So let's follow their lead and actually talk about it in a nuanced way.
Yeah, yeah, Yahoo.
In the wake of these attacks, where as you can see from these numbers, he is overwhelmingly being blamed for the failure of the.
Response and anticipation.
We now know that he was directly warned at least by Egyptian intelligence, also appears by US intelligence. Also to appears his own intelligence services picked up some signs Hamas was out there doing wargames, and they're like, I think this is fine. It had been his strategy, his stated strategy over years to sort of prop up Hamas as a way of foiling any efforts at establishing an actual Palestinian state. He found them to be a useful adversary.
So in the wake of all of this, with Ra among so many of the citizens of Israel, we played for you, you know, one of the cabinet ministers getting screamed at and kicked out of a hospital by the people there who were absolutely irate. Nanya, who has been really pretty silent, not taking questions from press because he doesn't want to have to face any of these very difficult questions.
Doing very little and saying very little about the families who have loved ones who are being held hostage right now, certainly seems to be no openness to that sort of negotiation to try to bring those hostages home safely. Now, again, it is the fault of AMAS that they are holding these hostages.
They should release them.
It is barbaric and it is inhumane, and it is insane that they are doing so.
But the Israeli people see that the.
Government is not doing anything to really try to bring their loved ones home, very emotional issue, and as I said, you know, apparently they've looked more to Joe Biden for leadership in the wake of these attacks than they have their own Prime minister.
Biden giving that big.
Speech, it was watched by a huge proportion of the Israeli public. Natanyahuo doing nothing similar and as I said, not making himself available to the press for any sort of questioning on these failures. So you know, there is a real there are peers from the outside. We're not there, so we can only say what we're seeing from these
opinion polls and from the media. Eclips and coverage. But there appears to be a real rally around the flag, as you would expect, but also a sort of unity in opposition of Netanyahu in the direction that he has taken the Israeli government in.
Yeah, I think that, and that's important because we didn't have that after nine to eleven, and it led to a lot of massive mistakes. We you're both rallied around the flag and then the guy we elect present and we didn't end up questioning that for a long time, and by that time there were hundreds of thousands of people who were dead, including many US soldiers. So I would just hope and I would pray that many people inside Israel don't make the same mistake that we did.
You can rally around your flag and you could protect our news while also recognizing that your politicians are not always the same people behind that flag.
Okay, so let's move on to some media coverage here, because this is an important piece of the story of censorship, of the way that this conflict is portrayed, of who is granted humanity in this conflict and who is not. Put this up on the screen. This was a bombshell report from Semaphore. The headline here from Max Tanny is
inside MSNBC's Middle East conflict. He reports that MSNBC has quietly taken three of its Muslim broadcasters out of the anchors chair since Hamas's attack on Israel last Saturday, among amid America's wave of sympathy for Israeli terror victims. The specifics here, which I'm going to tell you, MSNBC vehemently disputes, but I think it's pretty hard to deny when you see Ali Velshi, Mehdi Hassan and Amon Moyaltein all taken out of their normal anchor chair slots, pretty undeniable. There
is something going on here. So they didn't air a scheduled Thursday night episode of the Medi Hassan show on Peacock. They reversed a plan for Aiman to fill in on the network for host Joy Reads seven pm primetime show on Thursday and Friday. They say, loyalty and Egyptian American journalists and veteran NBC News correspondent covered the conflict from
Gaza for two years. Wouldn't she think that the guy who was in Gaza for two years covering this conflict might have something to add to your coverage, one might think so.
In twenty twenty one, they point out.
He aggressively question is Raley leaders on strikes in the territory. Two network sources with knowledge of the plans told Semaphore the network also plans to have Alisia Menendez, Bob andn Ededez' daughter fill in this upcoming weekend for ali Velshi, a third Muslim American host who on Sunday interview to spokesman for the Palestinian authority. So all three of those sidelined from their normal anchor chair slots. No, let me tell you their side. Ali Velshi has actually been on the
ground Israel reporting. He is now back in the US, but rather than being put in his normal time slot on his own, he was co hosting with Alex Witt. Now, if you've worked in this industry, you know that there is a big difference between being a guest and being a co host and having your own show that you get to pick the guests, the line of questioning, the way stories are framed, the elements that are drawn from,
very big difference. So they also say, you know aim In and Maddie, they've been on the network as guests, etc.
Etc.
Very different from being a host of your own program. In addition, outside of sidelining three of the individuals who have the most in depth knowledge, by the way, also of this conflict and the history and all of that. There's also been a lot of internal uproar that they reported on.
In this piece as well.
So there was an event that was created to quote here updates about the situation in Israel and a place to share family and friends stories from on the ground. Noting that there would be a rabbi in attendance, One of the producers for Ali Velci's show asked in this internal communication, why is there no Palestinian representation? The response from the organizer, which tagged NBC's HR director, So, going to the HR director, this is not about Palestinians and
Jesus raleies. This is about terrorists and Jesus rallies. Anyone entering this group needs to denounce terror and what happened on Saturday. Claims of freedom fighting, rationalizations, really anything not explicitly and unequivocally about being supportive during this difficult time.
These do not belong here.
And Velshi's producer said that that same employee sent him a private message including some quote incredibly offensive boy things. So it is getting ugly over there at MSNBC.
Ah, yeah, I mean they I just think it's so funny to watch because all of this is things that they accuse others of doing. All of this demonstrates their one sided nature. But more so, it just shows you who they really take their orders from, and that's the ADL. How can we forget that the ADL president appeared on their network, looked straight into the camera and gave them orders, and then they followed those orders only hours afterwards. Well, relive that from last week. Let's take a listen.
I must say, I love this show and I love this network, but I've got to ask who is writing the scripts Hamas the people who did this. They are not fighters, Jonathan, they are not militants, and I'm looking
right at the camera. They are terrorists. So I just think, like, guys, get this story right, and all these pictures of like you know, missiles or the rubble in Gaza, please talk to the Israeli mothers and fathers who lost their children, talked to the grandchildren whose grandparents were seized as hostages, and please stop up calling this a retaliation.
Wow, So guys, get the story right, who's writing the scripts. Those are all vary, by the way, very intentionally, I think used words, and considering now the fallout from that, it does show you that they are absolutely listening to the ADL in terms of that criticism.
We had talked.
I remember after that and I was like, I was like, I said, I think to you, I said, I think they're going to take them off the airs.
Oh and so there's no way.
Felt very confident that they would be, and they did.
What's really crazy is how quickly that they did it. As you laid out, I mean to reschedule people, keep them all up in the air. We don't know what's going to happen. And with all of that, that's a very clear sign. It also just shows you even when they come back, you think they're going to say the same thing. You think they're going to say what they think these people, and look on a personal level, I get these people, they love kids, you know all that.
By the way, I can't even stand Mehdihas. I really despise him that said I will speak up for him. I don't think it's right, you know, for somebody to be taken off for their views on something like this, and I especially think it's egregious for them to do so at the behest of a direct lobbying organization and not actually even attempt to try and try and tell a fulsome story.
Something that even CNN has been able to do in this conflict.
I have disagreements with Mehdi has On. He's one of the few anchors on MSNBC that ever actually challenges Democrats and has shown more courage on certain issues than virtually any other host there. But you know the other there's there's so many things here. I mean, we last week after that ADL dude said what he said, We played for you the commentary that sparked those comments, and it was none of it was like Hama's talking point.
It was not beyond the pailout.
Not at all.
No one was saying it's really civilians deserve to die and this is what they get and they're freedom fighters and I justify this, you.
Know, murdering Abate.
No one was saying that. You had Mehdi who was talking about Listen, you got two point two million people in Gaza nearer majority of them are children, helping people understand the reality of what's going on. Here, and it drives you every time I hear that, because he says the ADL guy, he says, go out and interview the mothers who lost their children, and MSBC has done that, but he does not want the Palestinian mothers interviewed. He does not want the images of rubble. He wants them
to quote, get the story right. And at a network that really talks a big game about diversity, suddenly they're pushing are there any other Muslim men who are anchors at that network? Or have they sidelined literally all of them at this point.
At this point, their best bet is to just play identity politics and being like you're silencing people of colors void, which why do we have to phrase it that way too?
I actually the.
Fact that they have backgrounds in the region I was knowledge of and reporting on the ground in the region.
That's a valuable asset.
That's my Yeah.
For me, It's like I don't care whether Amon is a Muslim or not. I care that he spent some time in Gaza, so I'm like, Okay, I want to hear what he has to say.
I don't know that many people have been to Gaza.
It's really hard to get to, especially for a man American citizens who are journalists. I believe he's Egyptian, so he has some background that he can give some there as well.
That's great.
That's what I want to hear from. I want to hear from people, anybody who has spent significant time there. That's really what the disservice is, as opposed to what somebody is in New York who's never even been to the region. I mean, how can you possibly give context? I mean, I rely on a lot of my experience in the Middle East and even in Israel as well, just to try and inform some of the commentary that I bring here. I like to think that it's helpful
for people. And yeah, I just can't imagine you being taken off from that in lieu of whatever the political preferences are.
Have said bosses, but that's why we don't have bosses.
Yeah, I mean, they're doing special primetime coverage at the network. Have these guys been included, right, people who have actually Amon spent two years on the ground of Gaza. Has he been included? You think his thoughts might be useful for people to hear and understand what life is like there. No,
he has been excluded from that coverage. So it is very interesting to watch in real time the way that these stories are shaped and how, you know, anyone that might have a dissident view or something else that they could bring to the table. They're not you know, they're not fired, they're not completely censored.
They're still allowed to be a guest.
But they're going to be they're going to be rained in, they're going to be managed, they're going to make sure that they can stay in their lane.
And we have another perfect.
Example of the way that the media covers this conflict.
This is this is really, this was wild. Put this up on the screen. Reuter's.
A Reuter's video journalist was killed and six other journalists were also injured in an Israeli strike.
In southern Lebanon.
I mean, you know, you could say, look, technically, maybe it came, but they they're headline here isn't Reutter's journal is killed by and is really strike killed in Lebanon in missile fire from the direction of Israel. Okay, from the direction of Israel. Their own person was killed and they can't even say how or why. Now imagine that it was a Hamas rocket that killed this Reuter's journalists, You.
Think they have any qualms?
You think they need to launch a nine month investigation to figure out what happened and be able to tell the public how and why their own journalist was killed. Do you think they would have any problems with that?
Of course, Look, nobody thinks that they wanted to do it. They didn't intentionally do it. It's a war zone, and it's terrible that had happened. It was fired by Israels to be like, yeah, the Israeli's fired a rocket and a killed one of our journalists. We condemned this, and we urge the military to be more careful with indiscriminate rockets.
They're being fired into Southern lovet. Why is this difficult? You know, it's not difficult.
You don't have to just sit there and soothe everybody's feelings. But most likely they did it, Crystal, because they don't want get kicked out of Israel.
You know, they don't want.
The Israeli government to retaliate against the Reuter's journalists. And yeah, like, as you said, either the direction of it from the direction like you just say it it's fine, it really is.
You know, people will be like, yeah, stuff happens in the middle of a war. It's terrible. That's why it's awful.
Whenever any journal was killed in any conflict zone, and it is a day. It is a job oftentimes that is fraught with risk, as we've had journalists who have been killed in Ukraine, We've had journalists killed before, you know, in Iraq and many.
Of these other types of places.
I'm not trying to morally equivocate, it's just being honest and straight up with people is the only and the best way I think to operate with this, and it does a disservice. And also can you imagine being the family and the guy who was killed, right, you know, you can't even say something like that, but these are people who employed you, and you were you were you know, you died whenever you were just trying to do your job pointing a camera. I'm sure you knew, you know,
a little bit of what you were getting into. You didn't think you were gonna die. So I just think it's awful you know that this happened, and that they just try and downplay it like this. So look, we're
trying our best here as well. And I like to think that you know, we genuinely are trying to provide a relatively like or at least like a zoomed out view of a conflict through which people who are new to this can try and wrap their heads around all the complex nature and the unfortunate thing I think that happens in situations like this is they zoom in onto a single part and they try to pretend that this
all just happen. And look, I understand that, you know, maybe in the first four hours, but we're a week almost into this, and we're on the precipice of a major war in the Middle East, and that is when I would hope cooler heads try to prevail, although unfortunately I don't see a way there, given the way that our political establishment is, given the way that Hamas has decided to behave, and given the way that the Israeli government has decided to behave, and what we always try
to speak up for here are like innocent people who get caught up in these because every conflict, no matter if it's just or not, has led to colossal losses of life, especially in the modern era, and it's something that we have tried as a state to always try to move past and fortunately we just keep moving right back to where things are, which is why war itself is so awful.
I just deeply fear that we learned nothing from our failed, disastrous, brutal, horrific response to nine to eleven.
It seems like we learned nothing.
I mean, the same type of rhetoric, the same type of you know, unchecked, this desire for revenge with no plan for Okay, what comes after the revenge?
What is next? What is the goal?
How do we actually achieve peace and security for you know, Israelis and for Palestinians. I just that's the piece that the demands for censorship, the shaping of the narrative, all of these things feel so like such a flashback to that time. And so, you know, try to think about what we learned from those mistakes, try as best we can to apply them to the current situation, which is always difficult when you've just watched this absolute monstrous slaughter
of innocent civilians. So that's, you know, that's what we're trying to do here, as best we can, is not only bring you exactly what's happening on the ground, but also situated in terms of the past, in terms of the risks for the future, so you know, we're going
to continue to cover it as best we can. As you guys have seen, we've kind of gotten all in on this because I think it is such an important moment, potentially really pivotal moment, and so we're going to continue to bring you as extensive coverage as we possibly can. We also, though, have you know, additional focus groups that we can bring to all of you this week. And thank you so much again to all of you who have enabled all of this work.
We are incredibly grateful.
It means a lot to us as us and the crew. We're all working over time in order to make sure all of this happen. So if we appreciate it very much, Breakingpoints dot com, if you're able to support us, we'll see you all tomorrow.