1/6/24: Krystal BREAKS DOWN Israel Genocide Charge

hardened by it. But I also felt like the US and our allies just do whatever we want willy nilly on the global stage, and so I was instinctively doubtful that these proceedings would actually matter. However, some events this weekend have kind of changed my mind and shifted my perspective, namely the fact that Israel seems to be taking this incredibly seriously and seems to be very concerned about how

all of this may unfold. So with that as context, I wanted to spend some time going through what Israel's counterclaims are going to be, what their defense is, the indications that they are actually freaked out about how these proceedings may go for them. I wanted to give you a little bit of back story and context on what exactly the International Court of Justice is, how this process is going to play out, and what exactly even is

the genocide Convention? How is that defined? And then I want to spend some time too with the actual complaint, some of the details of which if you follow the news, if you watch our show, you'll be familiar. But it's still worth taking some time to really sit with the claims.

The South African document here, the case that they make is very compelling, and part of why it's so compelling is not only because of the numbers and the statements that we've tracked of Israeli politicians and Israeli military officials, but they actually cite UN officials assessments themselves, which makes it very hard for a UN body the ICJ to refute.

So let me go ahead and dive into this first part, which caused me to take a closer look at these charges and reconsider how serious this could be for Israel. So this is a report from Axios that I can put up here on the screen that I believe just dropped this weekend about what Israel's response is. This is

from Barack Revied. He says, inside Israel's plan to quash South Africa's Gaza genocide case and Apparently the TLDR of this is that they sent out an urgent cable to countries around the world, effectively begging them to come out

with statements. We saw our own officials here, Biden administration officials, both Matthew Miller and John Kirby, coming out with the sorts of statements that Israel is effectively demanding here of their allies, and also gives a little bit of insight into how they intend to defend themselves against the charge that they are in the process of committing a genocide and they are failing to block the commission or incitement to genocide. So let me read you a little bit

of this. They say, the Israeli Foreign Ministry is instructing its embassies to press diplomats and polo titians in their host countries to issue statements against South Africa's case at the ICJ that accuses Israel committing genocide in Gaza. So the cable they say, sent by the Israeli Foreign Ministry on Thursday illustrates Israel's diplomatic action plan ahead of next week's ICJ hearing to create international pressure on the Court to not issue an injunction that orders Israel to suspend

its military campaign in Gaza. So already that's noteworthy, both because of the fact they're clearly taking this seriously, but also that their primary action isn't to argue against the merits of what's being presented here, but to say, we need to create international pressure so that the Court feels like they can't issue any sort of injunction against us.

So they go on to give some of the backstory here that I've already explained, but they say Israel immediately rejected the case as baseless, but unlike in previous cases at international tribunals, it decided to appear in front of the court because it is a signatory to the Genocide Convention, and Israel will be represented at the ICJ by the British barrister Malcolm Shaw, to everyone's sagarn not Alan Dershowitz, sadly,

who would have been just a perfect choice. It was reportedly being considered and floated, but anyway, this British lawyer, Malcolm Shaw, is going to be chosen instead. Pretoria has asked the court to file urgent provisional measures, including ordering Israel to suspend its military campaign in Gaza, while the case proceeds. This part's important too, so it will take years to actually fully adjudicate the charge of genocide against Israel. So what South Africa is immediately asking for is first

an emergency hearing, which they've already been granted. That's why this starts this week. And then what they want is these provisional measures to effectively stop any of the actions that could constitute genocide and is continuing to create harm to the afflicted population while the case is being fully adjudicated. So that's what this initial hearing is actually about. Behind the scenes, they say. The Israeli Foreign Ministry cable states, israel strategy goal is for the court to reject the

request for an injunction. That's what I was just referring, to refrain from determining the Israel's committing genocide in Gaza and recognize that the Israeli military is operating in the strip according to international law. Quote a ruling by the court could have significant potential implications that are not only in the legal world, but have practical bilateral multilateral economic security ramifications reads the cable, copy of which was obtained

by Axios from three different Israeli officials. They declined to comment. What they're asking is for them to say they immediately and unequivocally issue public statements that say they state that their country rejects the outrageous is that a word, absurd

and baseless allegations made against Israel. They argue that under the nineteen forty eight Convention, genocide is defined as creating conditions that don't allow the survival of the population, together with the intent to annihilate it, and so they want officials in countries around the world to stress Israel's efforts to increase humananeitarian aid to the population in Gaza very questionable.

How they can argue that as a majority of the population in Gaza is currently starving as we speak, but nevertheless, and to also decrease the number of civilians who are killed, they say that is critical. That also seems to be a difficult argument given that civilian casualties range somewhere around eighty to ninety percent of the total killed in the cable.

The Israeli embassies were instructed to ask diplomats and politicians at the highest level to publicly acknowledge Israel's working together with international actors to increase the humanitarian aid to Gaza as well as to minimize damage to civilians while acting in self defense after the horrible October seventh attack by a genocidal terrorist organization. So they are taking this very seriously, and I did a little bit of additional reading of

some of why this could actually have an impact. As I mentioned, you know, the ICJ could issue an immediate injunction saying basically like you have to stop what you're doing in a period, end of story. Now, they don't really have an enforcement mechanism, and in fact, they issue ruling against Russia that Russia has just completely blown off and ignored. So it's not like they really have teeth or any mechanism to actually enforce the signatories to this

convention to abide by their rulings. However, you know, here in the US we can use us as an example. Our administration has said we're not gonning even look into whether Israel's committing war crimes. And the reason they're doing that is because number one, they don't want to get the answer. Number two, if Israel's committing war crimes, we are directly complicit in those because of our shipment of weapons and unconditional support of all of the actions that

are being taken. So if you have this international body that the US is also a signatory to having some finding that it is plausible Israel's committing genocide, that makes things a lot more uncomfortable for the Biden administration. It also could call into question enforcement of things like the Laky Act, which are meant to prevent shipment of weapons to countries that are using them against civilians. So effectively, what the US government has been doing so far is

just pleading ignorance, like, oh, we're not the judge and jury. No, we think these claims are meritless. But also we're not even looking into these claims. If you have this international body that we are participating in saying yes, the claims have merit, Yes we think it's plausible they're committing genocide. Yes, we're issuing a formal injunction. They need to cease and desist right away. Listen. Do I think it's going to

change what the Biden administration is doing. Not necessarily, I'm not super hopeful on that front, but it will make things a lot more uncomfortable for them. For other countries around the world, which have a lot more respect for international law and international institutions. This could actually change their approach to this conflict, could lead to economic sanctions, it could lead to issues for diplomats trying from Israel, trying

to travel abroad. You've already had France saying that they're going to abide by what the ICJ finds. You've already had countries like Turkey say they agree with the South African case and effectively signing on to it as well. So that's some of the bigger context of why Israel is concerned here. And you know, there's also an emotional aspect. The Genocide Convention and the ICJ comes directly out of the horrors of World War Two and specifically the horrors

of the Holocaust. That's why Israel's long time been a longtime supporter of the Genocide Convention because of this, you know, incredibly foundational trauma that Jewish people and many Israelis actually experience through their relatives, experiences are connected to So for them to be found to even plausibly be engaging in genocide, let alone, you know, after years, if this is adjudicated, if they are found to have actually committed or attempted

or conspired or you know, enabled a genocide then that would you know, that would be a pretty huge blow to their own self conception. So there's there's an emotional aspect of this as well. I want to go ahead and get into some of the details here of what exactly is the Genocide Convention. I always think it's a good idea just to start with the language itself and

then we can assess from there. I also want to say that regardless of whether you think the South Africa claims on their face have merit, I really do encourage you. I'm going to go through some of their argument. I do encourage you to read it yourself, and that way, you know, you can have an informed opinion. I also plan to go through, you know, whatever Israel submits in

their defense too. But I think you know, this is obviously one of the gravest things that a country or a government can be accused of, and so if you are able to take the time to go through its eighty four pages from South Africa and read what they lay out and why they feel what's happening right now is consistent with violation of the Genocide Convention, I really

do encourage you to do that. So here is the actual text of the Genocide Convention, and I won't read all of it, but i'll read the first three articles here, which are sort of the most relevant. So Article one, they say the contracting parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish. Now this is important because again we're signatory.

So not only are we obligated to not do a genocide, which right now you know arguably we are complicit in, but we also are obligated to try to prevent it. And South Africa, you know, they make the case that we are fulfilling our obligations to try to prevent genocide by filing this case. Article two says, in the present convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part a national, ethnical,

or racial or religious group as such. So these are the type of actions that can be consistent with genocide.

You don't have to be doing all of them, but any of the following acts with intent to destroy in whole or in part a group, including killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole, or in part, imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group, forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article three says the following act shall be punishable. And this is significant as well. Genocide, conspiracy to commit genocide, direct and public incitement to commit genocide, And that becomes relevant when we get to all of the many statements that have been made by Israeli officials and military officials that seem to include genocidal intent. Next one is attempt

to commit genocide and complicity in genocide. So you know these this is directly about Israel, but obviously the US because we have provided Israel so much support, not just right now but over the years, also is implicated. This is something Ryan Grimm actually asked Matthew Miller about whether he was concerned, and he sort of brushed off, But apparently there is quite a bit of reason to be concerned in Israel is concerned right now about what all of this could mean. So before I dive into the

specifics of the South Africa Report. You couldn't. You could do a lot worse. If you just want the TLDR of what's in this report, then to look at these statistics from euromed Monitor, which has been tracking you know, deaths and displacements and destruction in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of Israel's assault, and they they track here as of January fourth, thirty thousand in six hundred and seventy six killed. That includes those who are presumed dead

under the rubble. That includes twelve thousand, forty children, six one hundred three women, twenty eight two hundred and one civilians. That is roughly a ninety percent civilian death toll. And again, these are many of the things that are tracked at length and really fleshed out and supported in South Africa's filing here. But just to give you the top line, this is as good a way as any to look at some of the actions that are being taken that

South Africa is arguing constitute genocide. You've had almost everyone in the Gaza Strip at this point, one point nine three five million people who've been displaced. You've got Press headquarters one hundred and sixty nine destroyed, two hundred and one mosques damaged, three churches damaged, one hundred and ninety eight heritage sites damaged, fifty eighty nine hundred and sixty injured,

over one hundred journalists killed. You have massive destruction to private residences, so sixty seven, nine hundred and forty six completely destroyed homes and one hundred and seventy nine thousand, seven hundred and fifty partially destroyed homes, three hundred and eighteen damaged schools, five hundred and twenty four healthcare professionals who have been killed or injured, one hundred and sixty

seven civil defense workers. Those are the type of people who would be attempting to pull folks from the rubble. One hundred and sixty seven of those killed or injured, one thousand, six hundred and twelve destroyed industrial facilities, one hundred and sixty nine healthcare facilities damaged, twenty three hospitals, fifty seven clinics and eighty nine ambulances, and two eight hundred and fifty detainees or forcibly disappeared. So these are some of the facts that are laid out in depth

in the South Africa filing. And I want to go ahead and pull up now the case that they have laid out their eighty four page case itself, So I can go through a bit of this, and obviously I can read the whole eighty four pages, but I wanted to give you a sense of how they lay this out. And there's a number of components here. So first of all,

they actually set the context. They say, listen, it's not just what's happening now, it's what's been happening over years, with forcible displacements, with violence against Palestinians, both in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, with an occupation, with a blockade, with a separate system of justice for Palestinians

versus Israelis. So they lay that out. Then of course they lay out the facts that I was just alluding to of the military action that is happening and the way it has been incredibly destructive to civilian life and has been inconsistent honestly with life when you have so many people starving, so many people dead, so much of the Gaza Strip destroyed. So they go through that as well.

They also talk about what they actually want to accomplish with this, and critically, you know, so in terms of their standing and in terms of ultimate finding of genocide, but in the immediate term, this temporary injunction that they're hoping will be issued to try to cease fighting and cease,

you know, the assault on the Gaza strip. And critically, and this is something that I've talked about before and that we've covered fairly extensively, they document page after page of Israeli officials and military officials calling for Gaza to be flattened, saying there are no innocent civilians and expressing

pretty clear and oftentimes completely clear genocidal intent. That part is very noteworthy because usually the reason why genocide is so difficult to prove is because typically people don't go around saying, let's do a genocide. We're doing a genocide, there are no innocent civilians, they all should die, the whole area should be flattened. Usually those sort of statements are not directly made. That is not the case here, and again we've covered many, but not even close to

the majority of the comments that are documented here. I will share a few of them with you today just so you can get a sense of that. But that ability to show intent based on their own words is one of the more damning parts of this case that's laid out here. So let me just start by reading this portion I have highlighted because it kind of gives an overview of what they want to lay in this report. They say the facts relied on by South African this

application be further developed. In these proceedings established that against a background of apartheid, expulsion, ethnic cleansing, annexation, occupation, discrimination, and the ongoing denial of the right of the Palestinian people to self determination, Israel since October seventh, in particular, has failed to prevent genocide and has failed to prosecute

the direct and public incitement to genocide. More gravely, still, Israel has engaged in is engaging in and risks further engaging in genocidal acts against the Palestinian people in Gaza. Those acts include killing them, causing them serious mental and bodily harm, and deliberately inflicting on them conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction as a group.

Repeated statements by Israeli state representatives, including at the highest levels by the Israeli President, Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense, expressed genocidal intent. That intent is also properly to be inferred from the nature and conduct of Israel's military operation in Gaza, having regard, inter alia to Israel's failure to provide or ensure essential food, water, medicine, fuel, shelter, and other humanitarian assistants for the besieged and blockaded Palestinian people,

which has pushed them to the brink of famine. It is also clear from the nature's scope and extent of Israel's military attacks on Gaza, which have involved the sustained bombardment over more than eleven weeks of one of the most densely populated places in the world, forcing the evacuation of one point nine million people or eighty five percent of the population of Gaza from their homes and hurting them into ever smaller areas without adequate shelter, in which

they continue to be attacked, killed and harmed. So that is kind of their overview and lays down, as I just explained, the various pieces of the case that they are going to make, and the first part that they talk about is the context of the lengthy occupation, illegal settlements, apartheid, blockade, and consistent violence against the Palestinian people. So they're saying, listen, it's very clear what's been going on since October seventh.

But part of what led us to our conclusion that this is an ongoing genocide is the fact that you've had this lengthy history of violence, contry, occupation, illegal settlements, etc. And I pulled just let me find this one part to give you a sense of the case that they're

making there. So they say, Israel's actions in the West Bank since October seventh, including for its support for and failure to prevent or punish Israeli settlers, for incitement and violence against Palestinians and Palestinian property, including the driving out of vulnerable Palestinian communities from their lands, are intrinsically connected to Israel's actions in Gaza and provided the very least important context to Israel's violations of the Genocide Convention. So

they say, listen, these are not two separate things. You have to look at the assault on Gaza and the loss of life here in the destruction of civilian infrastructure. Have to look at all of these pieces in the context of what has been going on for years and years. These are, they say, intrinsically connected to Israel's actions in Gaza. Let me give you a little bit more of the case that they make in terms of the occupation and

the siege. They talk both about what happened in the West Bank and also what they have seen over years in Gaza. Let me just find this piece if I

can spell Special Rapper Tour. Here we go. In twenty twenty, the United Nations Special Rapper Tour on the Situation of Human Rights in the Palestadine and Territories occupied since nineteen sixty seven describe the impact of Israel's blockade on Gaza, having turned Gaza from a low income society with modest but growing export ties to the regional and international economy to an impoverished ghetto with a decimated economy and a

collapsing social service system. They go on to cite that report, saying in twenty twenty two, he described the situation as follows.

In Gaza, the apparent strategy of Israel is the indefinite warehousing of an unwanted population of two million Palestinians, whom it has confined to a narrow strip of land through its comprehensive fifteen year old air, land and sea blockade, with further restrictions by Egypt on the southern border of Gaza BANKIMUN has called this political quarantining of the population a collective punishment, which is a serious breach of international law.

They also lay on in great detail here the apartheid system that exists with regards to the residents of the occupied West Bank and the violence that they have faced. They document how this before October seventh was one of the deadliest years in history for Palestinians living in the West Bank. And so they say, listen, when you're considering what's happening right now, you also have to look at what has been happening to Palestinians over years and years.

Let me go ahead and turn to their documentation of what is actually happening right now in Gaza, and they go through horrors of the number of civilians killed, the conditions in which they have been killed, They go through the here we go, They go through the horrible conditions facing children in particular, and how that has made it impossible for children to be safe, the emotional trauma that they have suffered over many years. And I don't want to dwell too much on this section because I showed

you the euromed monitor numbers. This is the sort of thing that we try to cover day in and day out at breaking points. If you've been watching the videos or the news, you probably are familiar with, well, not the regular news, but if you're watching us, if you're looking on TikTok, if you're looking at any sort of non biased news source, you're likely familiar with the extent

of the horror and thetrocities. But just to give you a sense of part of what they're documenting here, and you know, just some of the horrors that sometimes don't even get noticed in the melee of the ongoing atrocities that are being committed. They talked about what was unfolding inside of hospitals and the conditions that doctors are attempting to work in, the conditions that patients have found themselves in.

At one point, they say, you know, the hospitals, they say they've turned in to make shift morgus, they've turned into, they've had to dig mass graves outside of them are more like hospice centers than they are places of ongoing care. And even that is too kind, because hospice centers indicate an ability to provide some sort of care for people who are at the end of their lives, and they

say in particular here I'll read this section. Those hospitals which are still functioning are described as scenes from a horror movie. The critical shortages of staff and supplies, including anesthetics, analgesics, medicine, and disinfectants, have led not only to otherwise unnecessary amputations of limbs, but also to amputations without anesthesia. Imagine that amputations without anesthesion. I know some of these have been

conducted on children, often undertaken by flashlight. Pregnant women also being subjected to cesareans without anesthetic. Patients are being treated on dirty floors covered with blood, with family members having to stand holding saline bags where sailine is even available. There are insufficient staff and resources for adequate wound or postoperative wound care. Unclean wounds, often infested with worms and flies, rapidly become infected, necrotic or gangrenous. Patients plead for food

and water. Even basic pain management treatment is often unavailable, and patients are at risk of dying from treatable conditions. One doctor described having to do procedures without anesthetic. He said, I was forced to do dressing changes on massive wounds excruciatingly painful wounds. There was a girl with just her whole body covered in shrapnel. She was nine. I ended up having to change and clean these wounds with no anesthetic and no analgesic. I managed to find some intravenous

paracetamol to give her. Her dad was crying, I was crying, and the poor child was screaming. So these are the sort of accounts that are provided in this lengthy report. And there's quite a bit too on the level of hunger, starvation, the famine conditions which have been imposed. At the beginning they announced a complete siege. Now there has been some numbers of trucks AID trucks that have been allowed in

wildly insufficient for the needs. They go into great detail about the sanitation failures, raw sewage in the streets, one toilet for hundreds and hundreds of people, you know, one shower for thousands and thousands of people, the mass displacement.

They go into all of it here. And part of what makes it so difficult for again a un body here in the ICJ to deny is that much of this is being documented by the UN And remember un AID workers have been killed here in larger numbers than any other war in the UN's history, so they have had, you know, a very personal view of what has been

happening here on the ground that is documented in this report. So, as I mentioned before, and as I covered a little bit, we've covered some of these comments, though nowhere close to all of them. There's a lengthy section that attempts to establish intent based simply on the public statements of find this one. The public statements of various Israeli politicians up to including net Yahoo, Isaac Krtzog, senior Lacud party members, various cabinet members. I mean, you can see here all

of these different ministers. President of Israel, Israeli Minister of Defense, Israeli Minister for National Security, Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, Minister of Finance. A couple here that I'm not sure that we had covered on breaking points, which are quite clear with sa Palastinians in Gaza. So I'll read a few of the comments here that I think we didn't

cover on breaking points. But really, you know, you could read any of these and be appropriately horrified about the sentiments that are being expressed just open and in public, not just by random commentators or people online, but by senior officials in positions of power. So this is the Israeli Minister of Heritage. This individual post on Facebook the north of the Gaza Strip more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened, simply a pleasure for the eyes.

We must talk about the day after. In my mind, we will hand over lots to all those who fought for Gaza over the years and to those evicted from Gush Katifa former Israeli settlement. He later argued against humanitarian aid as we wouldn't hand the Nazis humanitarian aid, so calling all Balastinians Nazis, and he said there is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza. This individual, which I think we did cover on the show, also posited a nuclear attack on the Gaza Strip. We've got the

Minister of Agriculture. There's some statements here from army officials that are quite noteworthy. Let me read you some from Giora Island. This is an Israeli Army reservist major general, former head of the Israeli National Security Council and advisor to the Defense Minister. He said on October seventh, describing the Israeli order to cut off water and electricity. This is what Israel has begun to do. We cut the supply of energy, water and diesel to the strip, but

it it's not enough. In order to make the siege effective, we have to prevent others from giving assistance to Gaza. The people should be told they have two choices, to stay and to starve, or to leave. Giora Island has made a number of other similar comments demanding that the humanitarian crisis be furthered and that they not give in say, the State of Israel has no choice but to make Gaza a place that is temporarily or permanently impossible to

live in. He also said of the attack on raid on Alshifa Hospital, which he described as inescapable, I hope the head of the CIA got an explanation of why this is necessary and why the US must ultimately back even an operation like this, even if there are thousands of bodies of civilians in the streets. Afterward, another time, he said Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist, also echoed the words a President Herzog.

It's repeatedly underscored there should be no distinction between hamas combatants and Palestinian civilians, saying who are the poor women of Gaza. They are all the mothers, sisters or wives of Hamas murders. On the one hand, they are part of the infrastructure that supports the organization. On the other hand, if they experience a humanitarian disaster, it can be assumed that some of the Hamas fighters and the more junior

commanders will begin to understand the war is futile. The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster and Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not shy away from this. After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza strip will bring victory closer. It is precisely it's civil collapse that will bring the end of the war closer. So very clear there, this one is wild. I actually

hadn't even seen this particular speech. It's really army reservist motivational speech delivered on October eleventh, sos a ninety five

year old Israeli Army reservists. Ezrayakin, a veteran of a massacre during the nineteen forty eight Knachba, reportedly called up for reserve duty to boost morale amongst Israeli troops he ahead of the ground invasion, was broadcast on social media in citing other soldiers to genocide his follows while being driven around in an Israeli Army vehicle dressed in Israeli Army fatigues. Guys ready for this one. Be triumphant and

finish them off, and don't leave anyone behind. Erase the memory of them, Erase them their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live. Every Jew with a weapon should go out and kill them. If you have an Arab neighbor, don't wait, go to his home and shoot him. We want to invade, not like before. We want to enter and destroy what's in front of us and destroy houses, then destroy the one after it with

all our forces, complete destruction. Enter and destroy. As you can see, we will witness things we've never dreamed of. Let them drop bombs on them and erase them. Don't think you could get any more clear than that. And you can see the list of genisi id statements continues from there, and reportedly the Israeli planned defense for these comments is ah. These people are just talking. This is

just populist rhetoric. Was the language that I saw reported in Israeli media, and that would be their case for why these statements should be disregarded. But it would be one thing if it was just random commentators, random you know, people on Facebook or Telegram or whatever. But when it is the Prime Minister, the President, various ministers, various current and former defense officials and on down the line, it becomes very difficult to say, oh, this is an official

government policy, Oh this is just some fringe figures spouting off. Well, does the Prime Minister constitute a fringe figure? It seems to me like he is would be pretty fair representation of what government policy actually is. The last part that I want to underscore here for you guys is that effectively, to win in the temporary injunction emergency injunction that they are seeking, they don't have to prove that this is

a genocide that's going on. They just have to prove that it is plausible that Israel is committed and is committing or capable of being characterized at the very least as plausibly committing genocide. So that's the standard. Here they go into legal analysis of the acts that are documented and how they are consistent with certainly a plausible reading of potential genocide, and that is the legal standard for

these immediate measures. As I mentioned before, though the actual adjudication of whether or not genocide is being committed that'll take years, but this immediate temporary ruling could come in weeks or potentially months. So still, you know, if you're a Palestinian and Gaza who's starving and wondering if you are going to live to see the next day, I'm

sure that still feels like an eternity. But some action is being taken, and I think that it is difficult to robut many of these claims just because it is documented by the UN, because it is being proclaimed loudly in the words of senior officials, and because we can all see the videos of what is unfolding before our

very eyes. So you know, I guess that's why Israel, to go back to the first report you're talking about, is trying to put pressure on their allies around the world, thinking that maybe a political route is more likely to succeed than a legal route. But we'll have to see how all of this plays out. Thanks guys for sticking

with me through all of this. Like I said, I encourage you to read the whole thing, because I do think it's useful to see what is being laid out here and you can decide for yourself, make your own mind up about whether or not you think they have made the case strongly enough. Sager and I will both be back in studio for a full show on Monday, so I'll see you then