1/2/24: FBI Fumbles New Orleans Attack, Cyber Truck Explodes, Trump Goes Full Globalist & MORE! - podcast episode cover

1/2/24: FBI Fumbles New Orleans Attack, Cyber Truck Explodes, Trump Goes Full Globalist & MORE!

Jan 02, 20252 hr 7 min
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Episode description

Krystal and Emily discuss FBI fumbles New Orleans attack response, Cyber Truck suspect revealed, Trump goes full globalist on H1b, Johnson doomed amid Speaker battle, NYT sued over Blake Lively piece, OpenAI whistleblower parents demand investigation, Gaza doc on Israel's destruction of Gaza. 

 

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 1

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Speaker 3

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal, I'm in for Sager, Thanks for.

Speaker 4

Having me always.

Speaker 2

Happy New Year, Emily, Happy New Year got off to a terrible bud event ful star to twenty twenty five. We had two violent incidents that the FBI is investigated. Are actually looking to see if there might be any link between the two. So far indications are no, but will break all of that down for you, both in New Orleans and also in Las Vegas.

Speaker 4

Trump did in.

Speaker 2

Publicly on New Year's Eve about the whole elon Musk h one b thing firmly signing with Elon Musk and indicating that actually, we need a lot more immigrants in the country. So a little bit different. Note that he's founding now versus when he was on the campaign trail, and certainly when he was on the trail back in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. We also have some drama

in the Republican Caucus. Mike Johnson faces a speaker vote tomorrow, and he can only because the House Republican Caucus has such a narrow majority he can only lose one vote.

Speaker 4

He's already lost that vote.

Speaker 2

Thomas Massey said he's not voting for Mike Johnson, so if anyone else defects, he won't be able to get a majority. We'll be in another like negotiation. I'll Kevin McCarthy, mag Gates, etc. So we'll see where all of that goes. They're also facing a hitting the debt ceiling very very shortly. We're going to take a look. Emily's gonna help me

understand this. Blake Lively justin Baldoni thing. He's firing back both at Blake Lively and at The New York Times, suing the New York Times claiming that they're reporting was false and that they were cherry picking and actually altering communications that they use for their blockbuster report alleging that he had harassed her and also that he had retaliated against her. So like all of that down for you. The parents of the open AI whistleblower who was found dead.

Authorities deem that as suicide. The parents don't buy it. They have hired a private investigator to look into exactly what happened there. So we'll bring you those details. And we also are going to have an American doctor from Texas join us who is just back from his second trip to Gaza. Obviously, we covered earlier this week the horrific latest raid on Kamal Adwan Hospital, the last functioning

hospital in northern Gaza, has been destroyed. All the patients and medical staff forced to leave, some of them detained, etc. So he's going to tell us what he saw when he was in the Gaza strip before we jump into the latest that we know out of New Orleans and this horrific terror attack that occurred on New Year's Day. If you guys can help us out, help bring in the new year, help us be able to provide the best coverage we can by becoming premium describers. You can

go to Breakingpoints dot com. If you can't do that, that's fine. It also helps us out a lot to like and share our videos on YouTube. So with that, let's go ahead and jump into the news.

Speaker 3

Yes, let's start in New Orleans Crystal, where the death hole has now risen to fifteen people from the horrific New Year's attack on Bourbon Street. Now you've all in the audience likely heard the basics of what happened. Obviously, a car we have some video of this we're going to show in just one moment, rammed into the packed crowd on Bourbon Street in New Orleans around three in the morning on New Year's Eve. But then really New Year's Day, people were still out in full force celebrating

New Year's Eve. So it's clear that this attacker wanted to take out as many people as possible. Now, President Joe Biden late yesterday finally addressed the nation in some very crystal I was very strange. I mean, there's nothing strange really about the script, but certainly about the delivery. So let me go ahead right now and roll this video of Joe Biden addressing the nation from Camp David, which is where he was for the holiday. I'm going to get this on full screen so you can actually

see his face up close. Here's Joe Biden from Camp David last night.

Speaker 5

Our hearts were the people of New Orleans after despicable attack that occurred in the early morning hours. To all the families of those who are killed, to all those are injured, to all the people of New Orleans. We're grieving today. I want you to know I a grieve with you. Our nation grieves with you. We're going to stand with you as you mourn and as you heal

in the weeks to come. I want to thank our very first responders and law enforcement personnel who stopped the attacker in his tracks before he could kill or injured even more people. And I want to thank you to everyone at the Department of the Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, including the FBI, for working non stop to investigate this heinous act. The FBI is an investigation to determine what happened, why it happened, whether there was any

continuing threat to public safety. Here's what we know so far. The FBI is reported to me. The killer was an American citizen born in Texas. He served in the United States Army in active duty for many years. He also served in the Army Reserve until a few years ago. The FBI also reported to me that mere hours before the attack, he posted videos on social media indicating that is inspired by ISIS, especially the desire to kill, the desire to kill. The ISIS flag was found in his vehicle,

which he rented to conduct this attack. Possible explosives are found in the vehicle as well, and more explosive were found nearby. The situation is very fluid, and the investigation as a preliminary stage. And the fact is that right right now, excuse me, there you go, the law enforcement intelligence community continue to look for any connections, associations, are co conspirators.

Speaker 3

Well, Chris, I feel better.

Speaker 2

I mean like this is the least important part of this at this point, given the loss of life and et cetera. But it's unbelievable. This man is our president and that he thought still believes that he would have been able to be Donald Trump. But you know, clearly this was a horrific, intentional attack.

Speaker 4

We are learning.

Speaker 2

More about the suspect who was killed after you know, he fired at law enforcement, and law enforcement fire back and shot and killed him. But you know the ISIS piece, so an ISIS flag was found in his truck, and the president there indicates that, according to law enforcement, he

had posted some video sympathizing with ISIS. The more we learn about this dude, the more it looks less like an instance of some sort of like you know, Islamic radicalization and more like some a dude who went through a divorce and lost his mind because apparently he had first threatened his own family and was thinking of killing them, and then decided got this ISIS inspiration idea instead and goes and murders a bunch of you know, innocent partygoers

on celebrating the new year. So we can go ahead, Emily, I think you've got the TikTok video of this individual, born and raised in Texas, originally Christian, converted to Islam in the last number of years. According to his relatives and friends, had become sort of like increasingly devout and increasingly withdrawn. He'd gone through two divorces and had a very troubled relationship, in particular with I think the second wife it appears like, but this is a video of him.

He was a professionally worked at Deloitte actually, and this is a video of him when he was going through a phase where he was launching trying to launch a real estate business. This in any cases, how he presented himself in the context of that business.

Speaker 6

So Ding Jabor, property manager with Blue Metal Properties and team lead at the Midas Group at Core Realty, I just want to say hello and let you know a little bit about me. So I'm born and raised in Beaumont,

Texas and now live in Houston. And I've been here all my life, with the exception of traveling for the military, where I spent ten years as a human resources specialist and IT specialist, where I learned the meaning of great service and what it means to be responsive and take everything seriously, guiding eyes and crossing t's to make sure that things go off without a hitch. So I've taken those skills and applied them to my career as a

real estate agent. Where I feel like it really sets me apart from other agents is my ability to be able to one.

Speaker 7

Be a negotiator.

Speaker 6

So not only do I brilliantly market your property to make sure it gets sold as quickly as possible or it gets leased as quickly as possible. But I'm also going to take every ounce of energy and putting it into negotiating for you and for your property to get the best deal.

Speaker 7

That you can possibly get for it.

Speaker 6

So once we get to the closing table, all the e's are going to be dotted, all the t's are going to be crossed. Everything's going to go off without a hitch. And that is my word that I'm given to you as your real estate agency.

Speaker 3

And Chris sol what I'm sharing right here is from the New York Times. They say a man they reported midday yesterday, man who know new shamsu Din Bahar Jabbars, tells us that Jabbar had converted to Islam and then began acting radically in recent months. As according to Mike Baker, the concerning behavior led to him having limited contact with his children. So certainly more reporting to that extent is coming. In no question about it. We're going to learn more.

I just have to say. I mean as the lawn enforcement response Crystal transpired yesterday and the public eye started with a news conference in which the FBI said that they were not investigating an act of terrorism. We're going to get into some of this in just one moment. And then obviously they had covered up the ISIS flag, which is going to lead to a lot of questions

for years to come, certainly. But then hours later, actually like moments later, pivoted to saying yes, they were investigating this as an act of terrorism, which all seemed to be adding up pretty quickly to the point where they

should be able to confirm that. They then held a disastrous, disastrous midday press conference yesterday, and it wasn't just law enforcement, it was also Jeff Landry, the governor of Louisiana, Senator John Kennedy, Republican from Louisiana, involved in this press conference.

Speaker 2

It was honestly just bizarre. It was like bizarre, hardly combative, and for no reason at all.

Speaker 4

It was just weird.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it was horrible. I honestly thought it was just a disgraceful display. They were combative with reporters. Kennedy told the boomer joke about like NBC being on the left and the right in the middle of the press conference.

Speaker 2

Right bodies were still really not the time when fifteen people are dead and many dozens more injured, and you're making like partisan, weird boomer jokes.

Speaker 7

Right.

Speaker 3

Bodies were literally still on Bourbon Street at the time, which was another thing that they were confirming in that press conference. Is horrific. They did not want to answer questions. They all seem to be on completely different pages. They tried to end the press conference after delaying it for forever. They tried to end it like quickly into the questions a few questions in because they were threatening reporters, essentially saying like, you're not asking questions that we can answer,

so we're just going to end it. I mean, it was outrageous how that happened. So let's take a look at some of the questions they were answering. One of the biggest questions that they've failed going into all of this is how did this happen? Was there not adequate security? New Orleans obviously was hosting the Sugar Bowl. There were tens of thousands of people in town for the Sugar Bowl. Supposed to be yesterday night, on New Year's Eve, they postponed it a day. That was an announcement from the

press conference. We were just mentioning, but they're also hosting the Super Bowl and just plainly should be able to keep obviously people safe on Bourbon Street now on a New Year's celebration. Now, this is video, and it has some yellow boxes that you can follow of the car which was rented on the app turo. There's an electric vehicle. Let's go ahead and watch follow those yellow boxes if you're watching this.

Speaker 4

Terrifying.

Speaker 3

So what we just saw there was the electric vehicle go around a squad car that we're now learning from authorities was there because they're working to get barricades, basically the types of barricades that you put up when you don't want traffic to come down a street and ram a street full of people. This is what they're saying. As of right now, they were using squad cars instead. But obviously you can drive around a squad car, and if you can get onto the sidewalk, then you haven't

fully barricaded the street. Crystal. Their answers to this have been utterly unsatisfying thus far.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and apparently all they had up were just the little like orange gate barricades that you can easily barrel through. To your point, it seems like the most obvious thing in the world that if you're trying to block a street using a vehicle, which is a common practice. I've seen this in New York or I've seen this in DC where they're moving even some of the like you know, sanitation trucks to try to block off different areas, like you have to actually block off that area or else

it doesn't serve much of a purpose. Also, the fact that he's able to just skirt right around it and there's not any you know, immediate reaction. Now I have seen video of local law enforcement, you know, immediately running into danger when they realized what was happening, and obviously they were able to neutralize the threat before it would

caused even more loss of life. We should also mention in terms of the details here and part of what created this confusion around whether or not he was acting alone, confusion which I don't think has been completely resolved, although at this point it appears that the catch just showed up that he was acting completely alone. But there was uh an ied in addition to the firearms that he had in the truck, and then there was some indication that there might have been some other ied that was

found around the city. So you know, there are some questions that still remain, but that you know, that's part of what's been confusing is initially they came out and said, oh, we're investigating these other individuals that we saw planting these devices around the city, and then had to come out and walk that no, no, no, Actually it turns out they weren't involved. So there was a lot of you know, a lot of questions about the law enforcement response here.

And we actually have a video of someone who was there, an eyewitness, who said that he was concerned from the jump about the seeming lack of security of this area that is, you know, obviously famous in terms of America. It's this cultural historical destination known for its you know, revelry.

Speaker 4

Obviously it's going.

Speaker 2

To be a hot spot on New Year's Eve, and the fact that security was so lax in and of itself raises massive questions.

Speaker 3

Yeah, let's go ahead and take a look at that video which is queued up right here. This is on CNN. We can go ahead and.

Speaker 8

The clip last Marti Gras.

Speaker 9

This happened to an extent, maybe not terrorism, but still people getting hit in mass population with the vehicles those barricades were not on period. They had the flimsy orange ones that you could just push over with your finger.

Speaker 8

We actually thought it was.

Speaker 9

Kind of odd because usually when you get to Bourbon Street you can turn your back to Canal and not worry about anything.

Speaker 8

You can just walk the street, especially.

Speaker 9

On New Year's and there was still vehicles to come in after eight pm.

Speaker 8

And then I mean the fact that they never raised them.

Speaker 9

That's how this guy was able to get down Bourbon Street so quickly and cause so much damage. Because there's other barricades past the Canal and Bourbon intersection. There's more like every two three blocks. So what was ten or fifteen dead and thirty one dude could have only been maybe five and fifteen. I mean, who can say, but it definitely would have been minimalized because this truck cannot

go around those barricades. Everything in New Orleans in the French Quarter has about all the balconies have poll several steels, and there's there's.

Speaker 8

No going around anything. If that barricade's up, that's a wrap. That's your end.

Speaker 10

So just to be clear, you're saying that they were just flimsy, the flimsy orange barricades that weren't weren't up that they weren't the same barricades there as elsewhere.

Speaker 8

No, they were. The metal ones were absolutely not engaged.

Speaker 10

Well, And that struck you at the time, right, because there was that twenty seventeen incident with Marty Bras where a drunk driver or drove through. And so from what my understanding is, they increase security measures in that area because of what happened there. But what you're saying is that you didn't see the security that should have been there to protect the revelers.

Speaker 9

We were walking right across it, like as you walk down Bourbon, you cross like five of them, and then even when you turn off the side.

Speaker 8

Streets of Bourbon, there's more.

Speaker 9

Like there's the precautions are there and everything's implicated.

Speaker 8

You just have to use it.

Speaker 3

Now, just for a flavor of how the FBI's response changed over the course of the day, the Associated Press confirmed investigators have reviewed video of three men and a woman placing explosives in connection with the deadly car attacked in New Orleans French Quarter. The FBI does not believe the driver acted alone, so now there are three other suspects.

This is in the middle of the day yesterday, there are three other suspects that are potentially being investigated as part of a terrorism cell and are loose ostensibly in the country, and the FBI then walks that back later in the day. So let's take a look at this report from CNN.

Speaker 8

Getting new information.

Speaker 9

You're getting some clarification from a law enforcement officials.

Speaker 8

What are you learning.

Speaker 11

Yeah, Well, for one of the things we have been focused on is the FBI certainly was looking at this surveillance video that at the time at least appeared to show that there were other people who may have been involved in placing devices in the French Quarter. Now we know that law enforcement now has determined that those people

had nothing to do with this incident. At this point, it appears that those people seen on surveillance video did not have anything to do with replacing devices in the French Quarter, that this suspect was solely responsible, certainly for the attack, at least as we know it at this point. Now we should make clear that the FBI is still

looking at possible associates. They're trying to see whether there's anybody who may have been involved in helping to create the devices, the IDs, whether those people, anybody who might have been involved in helping to plan the attack. But at this point, at least for the on the part of the surveillance video, they now believe that those people had absolutely nothing to do with this. At this actual attack that happened this morning, Well, all right, we're an information indeed.

Speaker 3

So Christal. It also appeared that reporters like Press actually got to the suspect's house in Houston before the FBI. That's so far we have yeah New York posts saying they were there before the FBI was there, before law enforcement was there. And just to go back briefly to the moment at the disastrous, insane press conference in the middle of the day yesterday when John Kennedy made his weird little joke, what he also did was basically box the FBI director out to get to the podium and

make remarks. And the reason I think that's important is I can imagine if you're in Louisiana and your constituents are still lying on the ground on Bourbon, you are probably enormously frustrated with the FBI. It came out right away for some reasons, so that we weren't investigating it as terrorism. Then flipped immediately on it later in the day would do the same thing, like there's a level

of incompetence that he may have been reacting there. Now that's we have no idea why he actually like boxed out the FBI director. But it was a horrible day for the FBI. Yes, there's absolutely no question about it. These things are incredibly difficult. Obviously, that's true. There's a few situation, thousands of people, there's lots of CCTV footage because it's Bourbon Street, there's lots of mobile phone video,

obviously because it was New Year's Eve. That said, how you get from alerting the country to three possible terrorists being on the loose because you're seeing them plant IEDs and CCTV footage that you're confirming that to the press, and then hours later saying, oh, no, we don't think that they were planning IDs. That was stunning reversal after the other, stunning reversal and the terrorism question.

Speaker 4

Absolutely.

Speaker 2

And the first thing that you know, even just as a you know, an analyst covering these things, is that the initial stories often change. Initial perception of what happened often changes. You would think the FBI would be the ones to you know, be most well aware of that.

So to be leaking to journalists like, oh, I think it's this larger like isis terror cyle based on you know, a video that then they immediately go out and find out, Oh, now they were just you know, partygoers, like doing whatever they were doing.

Speaker 3

It.

Speaker 4

It's truly it's truly.

Speaker 2

Outrageous, and as I said before, I think they are. There are still some questions remaining about whether or not he acted alone, but at least according to NBC News, they said, the only indication that law enforcement had that he hadn't been the you know, the lone wolf here.

Speaker 4

Was that video.

Speaker 2

So if there is other evidence, you know, they hadn't uncovered it as of yet, that there were other people who were involved in this.

Speaker 7

You know.

Speaker 2

The indications at least at this point are that you know, he lost his mind for whatever reason, decided to do some let me grab my ICEIS flag and do some you know, horrific attack on innocent people, and perpetrated this. Came up with this on his own, is what the indication is at this point. The other thing and this will help us transition into the other violent event. Yesterday on New Year's day. So there were a few things that surface level seemed to sort of connect.

Speaker 4

This attack with the this Vegas attacks.

Speaker 2

So you have someone who drove up in a cyber truck Tesla of course, manufacturer owned by Elon Musk manufacturer, the cyber truck outside of the Trump hotel and then detonates a bunch of explosives there, killing himself and injuring I think something like seven people who were nearby. So

both vehicles were electric used in both attacks. Both attacks used vehicles, both rented from this same It's like a peer to peer rental car agency where it's like, you know, you can personally say, hey, my car is available for you to rent. That's what this That's what this app effectively was. And then the other thing is they both

are apparently former military. Now it doesn't appear thus far that there are actually any lengths these seem to be coincidences, but in any case, that's being investigated at this point. The fact that there were weirdly some surface level similarities between these two dispert attacks.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean it was as this was playing out yesterday, it was obviously you had the FBI saying there may have been multiple people involved, and then we start learning more about the cyber truck explosion outside of Trump Tower and Las Vegas, and it starts to look incredibly frightening, immediately frightening because it seems that there's like a chain

reaction happening around the country potentially. And to your point, Crystal, we're going to learn a lot more about what radicalized this suspect, and that'll, I mean, that's an interesting and unanswered question right now is basically what the hell happened.

This is somebody who was in the military, as you heard President Biden say just a few moments ago when we played the video from his Camp David press conference, somebody who was in the Army reserves until not that long ago, seemingly normal person who.

Speaker 4

Was working Malloy, born here, normal white collar job.

Speaker 3

I believe the suspect's parents were also born here. Not connected unless there are other suspects that we learn of, but not connected to any type of immigration. That was another thing that was playing out yesterday. The car itself had gone through Eagle Pass, Texas multiple times, that had he had rented on Tourow the app To your point, so there's so much more to the story. That we still don't know, but I do know one thing. A lot of people are not at this moment feeling probably

very confident and what the FBI says as things transpire. Now, some breaking news. The FBI is set to brief Congress on Thursday, so there should be Congresses back in town, the new Congress in session. We're actually going to talk about how difficult that will be for Republicans in just a bit, because as they seek to turn the screws on the FBI and to get a new FBI director confirmed in the Senate, at least over on the House side,

Mike Johnson has one vote margin. So a lot to come later this week, and a lot of questions that remain unanswered.

Speaker 2

All Right, So we've referred now a couple of times this other violent incident that occurred yesterday, which thankfully resulted in much lower loss of life than that vehicle attack down in New Orleans. But yesterday cyber truck pulled up outside of the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas and then reportedly after sitting there for fifteen or twenty seconds, explodes. Now we have some video I can show you, so we'll ultimately the driver himself, who perpetrated what is being

described as an intentional act. He's the only person who died in this attack. There were something like seven people who were standing nearby who were also injured, but thankfully again lower loss of life here. But in any case, let's take a look at this stunning video of what occurred here copy so you can actually see these like fireworks exploding. And sure enough, after the fact, when they got a look at the truck itself, you can see here them you know, carrying this tarp and revealing the

contents of this truck. You can see these firework canisters, gasoline canisters, camp fuel canisters, and they say large firework mortars in the back of this cyber truck that exploded.

So Elon Musk got involved immediately and helped out law enforcement trying to you know, first unlock the car which had automatically locked, and then investigating to see, you know, was this some weird like Tesla problem where the vehicle just exploded out of nowhere and no, he says, we have now confirmed that the explosion was caused by very large fireworks and or a bomb carried in the bed of the rented cyber truck and is unrelated to the

vehicle itself. All vehicle telemetry was positive at the time of the explosion, and as I just mentioned, Emily, you also had a law enforcement confirming that this was being investigated as an intentional act. And you know, obviously you could see the symbolism here. You've got the cyber truck, which is Elon Musk, who's obviously closely affiliated with the Trump administration. You got the Trump hotel, et cetera. So let's take a listen to a little bit of the reporting here.

Speaker 12

Let's talk about Las Vegas, because this has been a sort of interesting development.

Speaker 7

You know that the images of.

Speaker 12

The cyber truck parked outside the Las Vegas Trump property when viral, you know, sort of I think people thought it was an accident, and then it was heard and so there was a sort of bizarre symbolism and that it was a cyber truck, it was out Trump. As it's developed, it seems that this is being taken far more seriously. What do we learned about what authorities know and how they're investigating this.

Speaker 13

Right, Chris, So, according to the reporting of myself, my colleagues Andrew Blankstein and Kelly O'Donnell, right now, three senior US law enforcement officials say that this explosion of a Tesla cybertruck kind of in the portico there where you saw that smoke rising from in front of Trump's property in Las Vegas is being investigated in at least initially, is a potential act of terrorism, and that it was quote intentional.

Speaker 2

So there you go, another potential act of terrorism appears very much to be intentional when you're driving around with you know, a bunch of fireworks and yas canisters and other explosives would seem very much to indicate that this individual intended for this to happen. And I'll just give

you the last couple pieces that we know here. As we mentioned before, you know, there are some surface level connections I don't want to say connections, but similarities is the better word, between this vehicle based attack and the other vehicle based attack in New Orleans. The most noteworthy of this was the fact that they both both vehicles were electric and both were rented through the rental car app Toro, where people can put up their own vehicles

to rent out to the public. I don't know, perhaps that's just like they thought, both thought that this would be a way for the vehicles not to be tracked, or the easiest way to get the particular type of vehicle that they were looking to get. I don't know how easy it is to rent a cyber truck from a traditional rental agency. But in addition to them both using vehicles, both using these this rental car app they

also both were former military. So this is who authority he said perpetrated this attack and ended up killing himself in this attack. Matthew Livelsberger, thirty seven, identified as the drive of the cyber truck that exploded in Vegas, listened on LinkedIn as an operations director and intelligence manager who apparently is former Green Beret. So at this point, that's about all we know about this particular attack in Las Vegas, which killed the driver and injured a number of passers by.

Speaker 3

And both obviously used trucks as well. So those are I think more I mean, they're superficial to your point, Crystal, because they're all on the surface level, but they're pretty I think, interesting parallels. And it took a long time for people to talk about what was happening in the same breath yesterday. We didn't hear it from media and law enforcement, but it would seem to have been a fairly obvious question. Trump obviously was at mar A Lago. He was not at Las Vegas, so there's no threat

to Trump himself. But I mean, just we may learn that they have apps nothing to do with each other. But the questions I think on the minds of a lot of the American people who now see two different things happening on two different coasts almost at the same time, or within hours of each other. I mean the I shouldn't say almost at the same time, but really within the twenty four hour span, really was within I think

a twelve hour span roughly. That raises questions and the answer so far has been again entirely unsatisfying.

Speaker 2

So apparently law enforcement is investigating to see if there's any potential link between these two attacks. So far, they have not indicated that there are any other than these, you know, sort of surface level similarities. But yeah, it's to your point when we were talking about the New Orleans attack, like there was a very scary period of time yesterday when law enforcement comes out and says, oh, well, there were actually this wasn't just this lone wolf and Orleans.

We have video of these other accomplices who were still at large. And then that's at the same time that you're just starting to get these details that oh, the cyber truck didn't just randomly blow up, this was another intentional act potentially being investigated as terrorism. It certainly raised, you know, as there are there going to be a series of more attacks in the country. So far, there's, as I said, there's no indication the two were linked.

It looks like two separate lone wolf psychos who decided, for whatever reason or whatever irrational reason their brain's concocted to try to hurt and kill innocent people who were just going about living their lives. But you know, that's still being still being investigated at this point to see

if there's any potential connection here. But as best we can tell, you know, I think we have we have certainly more details about the attacker in New Orleans, and you know, looks like someone who was going about his life do and okay, and then hit a rough patch.

She was also under financial distress, had this difficult divorce and appears to have just completely lost his mind and was thinking about killing his own family and then decides instead to kill a bunch of innocent, random civilians on you know, New Year's Day, early in the early mornings of New Year's Day. So welcome to twenty twenty five. Not going so well, so so far?

Speaker 3

Yeah, well yeah, on that point, there was it was insane in like twenty four hours of New Year's where he had symbolically a little lightning strike hit the capital, hit the Washington Monument, and all of this happens like starts unfolding within like twelve hours of the New year. Not a great start, Crystal.

Speaker 4

But just even omen not yeah.

Speaker 3

Seriously, seriously, And just a last point on that former military I think is just cannot gloss over how important that is. And the time spin is enough that it potentially allows for thisman to have been the suspect in Las Vegas, to have been animated in some way. You know, we're likely dealing with somebody who had some level of mental illness but could have potentially been animated in one

way or another by what happened in New Orleans. There's enough time that whatever the motivation was, maybe it's like something is a reaction in one way or another to what had happened in New Orleans. In the Las Vegas case as well. So a lot more to be, a lot more questions to be asked, and hopefully we'll get those answers sooner rather than later.

Speaker 2

So, guys, earlier this week we covered this whole in Bruglio.

Speaker 4

Is that how you say that word?

Speaker 2

I never know between Elon Musk and Vivek versus Laura Lumer and a bunch of other magatypes fundamentally of immigration, but specifically over H one B visas and quote unquote high skilled immigration. So at the time when we spoke to you last Trump had given some comments to The New York Post that we're I guess still a little bit cryptic, but he was like, I like H one B and in fact, I use many H one B visas on my own properties, which I don't even think is true. I think he means H two B visas.

But in any case, seems very much like he was siding with Elon. However, I did see some of his supporters who are on the more like mega like anti immigrant right, who were kind of coping over this, saying until I hear from his mouth, I'm not going to believe anything, blah blah blah.

Speaker 4

Well he got asked about this.

Speaker 2

Trump did on New Year's Eve at his annual mar A Lago party and made it pretty clear where he stands on issue at this point.

Speaker 4

Let's take a listen, change your mind.

Speaker 9

Changed.

Speaker 5

I've always felt we have the most confident people in our gunt.

Speaker 7

We need cooput in people.

Speaker 8

We each smart people coming in drug gun June.

Speaker 7

We need a lot of people coming in.

Speaker 14

We're gonna have jobs like we've never had before.

Speaker 2

But you choose, we need a lot of people coming in Emily. Now, I'm old enough to remember when at the r and C the crowd was holding mass deportation now signs. Jade Vance at the RNC gave a speech about how no longer would they let foreign workers come in and replace American workers. So, since getting Elon Musks two hundred and fifty million dollars into his campaign, his tone does seem to have shifted a bit on this issue.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean, the mass deportations can theoretically exist alongside H one B visus, Like there's an ideological way that you can say we're deporting illegal immigrants and then we're

going to bring in the best and the brightest. But that's not the position that Donald Trump has taken in the past, and it's not the position of people like Stephen Miller and people who are so hawkish on immigration that they believe in this is typically for cultural reasons and alongside labor reasons that they believe basically the country

is full, is the way that they'll say it. We have to integrate people who are already here culturally and assimilar people who are already here culturally, and we cannot continue to import workers that are undermining American workers. So no immigration, full moratorium. Legal immigration has to be reduced dramatically, if not entirely curbed. You have to get rid of all of these visa programs. That is not something that can exist alongside H one B visa is without significant reform.

Elon Musk you've probably seen this. Crystal has come out and said you, basically, we all believe that there should be reforms to H one BES, which is I think

an easy thing to say. It's another question of what happens when people actually try to make those reforms and what they end up looking like, and who weighs in to potentially stop them if they are a threat to the way Silicon Valley does business, which this is important to their bottom line because they you can see just the reaction from people over the last both weeks how important it is to their bottom line.

Speaker 2

Oh, this is a major issue for Silicon Valley. And you knew this back when Trump went on the All In podcast. And this is one of the things that he promised the tech bro crew, including you know, David Saxson and the rest of the gang there. This is like one of the things that he talked about and he promised, So for those of us who've been listening carefully, it wasn't a surprise that he had made this dramatic pivot from the way he had positioned himself back in

twenty twenty and twenty sixteen. You know, just to clarify again my position, I support more legal immigration, more pathways to citizenship high skilled and low skilled. But the problem with this program, and effectively with all guessworker programs, is it does create it that create this indentured servant class that is completely beholden to, you know, whatever, whether their corporate boss once in there, their immigration status depends on

pleasing their corporate boss. They frequently are under paid. You know, they're also used as a tool to like, you know, bust unions, because if you've got this workforce there that is, you know, can only stay in the country so long as they keep the boss pleased, then they may not want to do something as adversarial as start a union, et cetera, join a union, et cetera. And so, you know,

those programs are fundamentally exploited. It both for the workers themselves and also have a deliterious effect on the existing workforce. It's also worth really noting something that people been you know,

pulling up and noting on Twitter. Tesla among other tech companies laid off thousands of American workers at the same time that they're claiming because you have to in order to you know, get one of these H one B visas that you can use for your company, you have to claim there's no American worker who can fill this role. And so at the same time they're claiming, oh, we can't get anyone to fill these positions, you're laying off

thousands of American workers. So for Elon Musk, it's very clear what's going on here, you know, And for the rest of the tech oligarchs, it's very clear what's going on. They like having an exploitable, easily manipulated, lower paid workforce, and they consider that to be really important to them, and they're you know, capitalist bottom line. Just to show you, so to give you a little visual representation of Elon's influence, here can see him here, you know, vibing with little

X on his shoulders, who is absolutely adorable. Starting with Trump at mar a Lago. There's a New York Times report that he just he's just staying at the cottage at mar Alago. I saw someone on Twitter. It was like, you know, he's smart enough to realize Trump is very influenced by the last person he talked to, So he's just kind of post up and mar Alago and always be the last person who talks to Donald Trump. But even beyond that, I think this deal was already made

back when Elon basically like rescued his campaign. And who knows if he would have want or not if Elon wasn't involved in his money, et cetera, et cetera. But certainly possible that that quarter of a billion dollars plus organizing efforts on the ground was determinative given how close a margin the race ends up ultimately being.

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, and that means there's a sort of debt of gratitude so to speak that you would imagine Donald Trump, oh was Elon Musk and in this case Crystal. There was some reporting several years ago it was a big controversy at the time that Disney had laid off American workers and actually had them training their replacements. Again, it was splashy at the time, but sort of faded from

the headlines, as you can imagine. But what's important about that, in combination with something you just said, is that you have to say you can't hire Americans xy, like this is the most qualified person blah blah to get your h one B. That's already a protective measure intended to be in the law, and so when you come in and say I'm making reforms, this is going to be even more stringent. Value. If they stop protesting usually means

they found a way around whatever the reform is. Usually means they feel comfortable that they can still continue to hire people with these ways that are like beneficial to their bottom lines and undercutting American workers. Because if you look at what happened with Disney, for example, it just raises this obvious point, which is if they can do it, why wouldn't they If they are about maximizing shareholder value, why would they not do that If they can do it,

if they can get away with it. Obviously they don't want the negative media attention that was fairly disastrous for Disney, but now nobody even knows it really happened. So if they can do it, why wouldn't they, And that means they're always.

Speaker 2

As Trump's rationale too. I mean, he apparently has maybe a few, has applied for a few H one B visas, which are like the you know, knowledge workers. H two B is applies to hospitality and other seasonal work. So like hospitality, agriculture and things like that, he is long

used at his properties many h to be visas. And so it's important for people to remember, in spite of the way Trump has brandoned himself, he ultimately you know, his class interest and ideological positioning are very much aligned

with Elon Musk. So you know, for him to come out totally change his position and don't let him fool you like this is a change in position, no one should be surprised because he avails himself and benefits from this very same very exploitative system of visas which are tied to your employment, so if you piss off your employer, you get deported.

Speaker 4

That is a.

Speaker 2

Fundamentally exploitative relationship that you know, even lefties like me who think that immigrants are good for the country and want more pathways as citizenship, et cetera, like, this is a bad way to do immigration because it's bad for the person coming in and it's bad for the workers that you are undercutting with these lower wages and more exploitative labor practices.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it's not as though there's no way to bring in the best talent in the world. I think that's entirely possible. But the way these laws are written, like you can pokem full of holes like Swiss cheese. If you have you know the resources, and you're a massive firm, multi billion dollar company or anything like that, you can you can find a way around all of these different things that might hurt mid size or smaller businesses who

are trying to use the same practices. And that's why there's no like, yes, h one bv's is if you put Steven Miller in charge of them, that's a threat to Silicon Valley. But there's always a confidence in the industry that they're able to write these laws in a way that's still worse for them, even if there are restrictions or reforms or whatever. So that's why, you know, I take seriously the idea that the program should be reformed if it's espoused by or endorsed by people like

Elon Musk. I think that's great, but incredibly incredibly suspicious that it would really happen in a way, a meaningful way.

Speaker 2

Let's take a look, just for the record, at a compilation of how Trump talked about this issue in twenty sixteen, how we talked about it in twenty twenty, and then we've already played for you what he just said, indicating quote, we need a lot of people coming in. Let's take a listen to this.

Speaker 13

Nobody knows the system better than me.

Speaker 8

I know the H one B, I know the H two B. Nobody knows it better than me.

Speaker 12

I know the H one B very well, and it's something that I frankly use and I shouldn't.

Speaker 7

Be allowed to use.

Speaker 8

We shouldn't have it very very bad for workers.

Speaker 15

As we speak, we're finalizing H one B regulation so that no American workers replaced.

Speaker 8

Ever, again, H one B should be used.

Speaker 13

For top highly paid talent.

Speaker 16

To create American jobs, not as an expensive labor program to destroy American jobs.

Speaker 2

So there you go, and then they just play the twenty twenty four and he's not the only one. Emily, this is kind of funny. Who has really changed his

tune with regards to this very specific topic. So Vivek Ramaswami, who on Monday, you probably recall, we covered he put out that tweet like attacking American culture as being mediocre and pushing great mediocrity because of our sitcoms that we watched in the nineties and hanging out at them all or whatever, all in order to back up Elon's position and now Trump's position on H one B visas back

in October, not like years ago. I'm talking about literally this October twenty twenty four, he sounded.

Speaker 4

Very different on the topic. Let's take a listen.

Speaker 15

A lot of the people who have come here through the H one B system would tell you, as I would, that it is just a broken system.

Speaker 7

No matter who you're seeking to serve.

Speaker 15

For example, you want to talk about special interests in lobbying, this is direct Silicon Valley lobbying that said that if you get your H one bbs and you're hired by one company, you're effectively like a slave. You can't switch to a different company. That's not a free labor market. So there's so much that's broken and bureaucratized. Here's the next question about one visa system is why the heck do we do it on the basis of a lottery when you could actually just select the very best people.

So there's a lot that's broken about the administrative state, the bureaucracy.

Speaker 8

My general approach is when something's.

Speaker 15

Broken in government, you can't really fix it when it's lasted that long. You need to shut it down, start with the blank slate, and rebuild from scratch. And that's just a stylistic point that I've applied to this issue as to any other.

Speaker 2

So that particular, that last part where it is like there's no reform, you just got to get rid of it, is particularly important because people had surfaced some of his comments before that were critical of H one B's and he's like, I didn't change my position. I've always been for reform. I'm still for reform. But this makes it pretty clear, like, no, you weren't just talking about reform, you were saying a broken system. You really can't fix it. You just got to you just got to get rid

of it all together. And so you know, he really is kind of caught here also, I guess, deciding to kowtow to his fellow billionaire. He is also a billionaire, although I guess a lesser billionaire than Elon musk Ski's mill near single or double billionaire as opposed to whatever Elon musk has, but you know, ultimately allowing aligning here with his own class interests.

Speaker 3

Yes, that was a fairly detailed and substantive, well thought out argument against Ahwan BB's there's no way around it. And what sucks for the American worker is it also used to be something that a lot of people, even like higher profile people Bernie Sanders on the left, used to make a substantive and serious argument against as well.

And it just it's so to your point about Silicon Valley, it's so valuable to them that we've seen those arguments just sort of melt away, and this idea that it could be reformed without as vivaid I actually basically agreed with what he said in the conversation that we just played, because when you start quote unquote reforming things, you end up with those holes like Swiss cheese being poked in by lobbyists and industry, which is a system that we

have now, it's a system likely we would have under a seriously reformed version of H one B visus. So to see the change in rhetoric is just a it's a small sample of what America workers have been dealing with for decades from the political class.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it is quite remarkable. I mean, you know, I think I think when we talk to Row, I think he's got some good ideas, working bipartisan in a way to reform the program. But as long as immigration status is tied to job status, that's going to end up in you know, that's going to end up in exploitation.

So if you're someone who wants to have more immigration, whether it's high skilled, low skilled, whatever, I really don't think doing it through these guest worker programs, which is something that you know, the left has long critiqued the guessworker approach to immigration because of these labor dynamics that it ultimately sets up. So, you know, the the last thing that I'll say here is even though Trump has

weighed in question, is not necessarily completely closed. Steve Bannon has been very much on the warpath, specifically against Elon. I mean, that's the thing is like Laura Lumer all these people like they never really go directly at Trump. It's always like whatever proxy on the issue, and Trump's just being misled. And of course we love Trump and he would never do anything wrong, but like let me sort of like do a round about critique of him.

But in anyway, in any case, Steve Bannon going very aggressively still on this issue, really declaring war on it. Let's go ahead and listen to some of his latest comments here.

Speaker 16

I've said many times that Elon came, and Elon's money helped.

Speaker 7

Organize the grassroots of it.

Speaker 16

In his engineering mind, he saw what the problem was as we saw it, and he supported it, and for that he gets a place at the table.

Speaker 7

There's no doubt you should.

Speaker 16

It's a quarter of a billion dollars in June, not an entire cycle in five months. But that dinner with sex and that check from Elon came at Biden's you know, when Biden, you know, in the debate or right before the debate and Biden, you know, they kind of saw the numbers where this thing was heading. They're recent converts, and we love converts. Hell, I'm gonna I'm a Catholic. We used to be in the convert business. Not so

much anymore. We can't keep what we got. But in the old days, you know, half the Saints are missionaries. We loving converts. But the converts sit in the back and study for years and years and years and make sure you understand the faith, and you understand the nuances of the faith, and understand how you can internalize the faith. Don't come up and go to the pulpit in your first week here and start lecturing people about the way things are going to be.

Speaker 7

If you're going to do.

Speaker 16

That, we're gonna get and we're gonna rip your face off because you can't beat us.

Speaker 7

We're not beatable.

Speaker 16

This army of the awakens not beatable because we're relentless and we will never surrender and we will never slow down.

Speaker 4

So there there you go.

Speaker 2

We'll ripe your face off. We're not beatable, never surrender, never viv back down. I don't know what do you think is going to happen with this because I sort of feel like, now that Trump has ad his piece, they are going to just like get in line. And I also find it creepy to compare the support for a politician or political movement to like, you know, religion, being a convert to your religion. I find that a little disquieting myself. But anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 3

Well, I think it's interesting that it gets to this question, how sincere their conversion to continue that to the Church of MAGA actually was you know Bannon there. Bannon is not gullible, He's not you know, sort of a silly person like he obviously understands that their conversion, the sincerity of their conversion is very much in question. What part of MAGA do they actually agree with? And they agree with kind of the doge part of MAGA, but the doge part of MAGA, and that don't touch in title.

That's part of MAGA. That everyone will have healthcare part of MAGA, which means different things obviously depending on where you catch Trump and the Republican Party in any given day.

Donald Trump tried to come to the table with Nancy Pelosi on DACA in his first term, which is easily forgotten what MAGA means to Donald Trump and what MAGA means to Steve Bannon and Steve Bannon's many many followers and listeners and the grass roots of the Republican Party tea Party activists who have been around the county Republican Party headquarters across the country for years. It means something very different to Elon Musk and to Steve Bannon and

to Donald Trump than it does to those people. Steve Bannon is more sort of has his finger more firmly on the pulse of what that looks like to the actual party faithful and grassroots. So the question, I think crystal is where the stacks on priorities. So if Donald Trump and Elon Musk continue to say we're plowing ahead with H one b's, maybe they do lift the cap. Which is what this all off was the AI Appointment putting out a tweet that said we should lift the cap,

we should have unlimited. Basically, if they did something like that, It's one thing to just go along with the existing system. It's another thing entirely to say we're blowing up the system. There's no caps anymore. We're bringing over all of these people to compete with the American workforce. If they did that, Bannon's going to continue to absolutely raise Hell, and Bannon's followers will continue to absolutely raise Hell. And I don't think it goes away if they just sort of keep

the system as it is. I mean, then I think everyone just kind of goes along for the ride. But the question is what level of priority it stacks up as and that'll depend on I think what we see right away.

Speaker 2

Well, because they are going to do some day one executive orders in the direction of quote unquote mass deportation, you know, how aggressively they move in that direction or not is a you know, still open question. But yeah, you've still got Steven Miller in there effectively, and what's his face, Tom Holman, who's really, you know, very aggressively

immigration hawkish restrictionists, who is the immigration czar. So you still have some very hardline people who are going to put together a series of very hardline policies with regard to deportations. So yeah, I think that'll you know, satisfy the Steve Bannons of the world. And frankly, I think most Trump supporters have proven themselves to not be particularly ideological.

It is more of a cult of personality than it is a consistent ideological movement, because if it wasn't, like, he's already betrayed the supposed tenants of trump Ism many times, like you said, trying to make a deal with Nancy Pelosi on Dhaka in the first administration, making his primary achievement in the first administration a giant Paul Ryan tax

cut for the rich. And there was never any revolt among the magabase over any of these things outside of like some minor complaints, minor bickering, And I don't see that as being any different this time around. The last thing, and I'll say on this with regard to the billionaires, is there's the reason why these billionaires flit back and forth between the parties. It's not because they're having some

like based awakening. It's because they're going wherever they think they can get the best deal for themselves, Where they think that they're very consistent ideology of like enriching themselves and being able to, you know, have the type of captive, exploitable workforce that they want to have. They're going to go to whichever party they think is most primed to

deliver those results for them. Or wherever they think is most likely to win, whoever they think they can have the most influence with, etc. And so you know, that's that's what's going on here with Elon and David Zax and all these people who have you know, made some sort of a lot of the tech right that used to be in the Democratic Party, Mark Andresen being another

example of that. It's not that they've had some sort of you know, ideological conversion, although they may talk about being anti woke or whatever, but mostly they just use that as a cloak, like Mark Andresen does for pushing through whatever their sort of bottom line capital interests are.

And I'm referring specifically to you know, when he goes on with Joe Rogan attacks the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which has been decidedly a positive thing for American consumers and has delivered money back to them when they've been defrauded by companies. And he's had some portfolio companies that

have come into their crosshairs before having scammy practices. He doesn't like the CFPB, but rather than directly talking about what it is he doesn't like about it, which is that it, you know, this regulatory body was negative for him and his portfolio companies and his self interests, and steady cloaks it in this like, oh it's it's woke, and they're canceling conservatives and their debanking conservatives, which is total and complete nonsense. So you know, these guys are

wolves in sheep's clothing. They don't align with by and large. There may be some areas where they have overlap with your interests, but they're looking out for themselves, whether they're glomming onto the Democratic Party or the glombing onto the Republican Party. The bottom line for them will always be the bottom line.

Speaker 3

And Bannon for a while said this is one maybe a crass way of putting it, but basically would look at all of these tech guys who were coming into the MAGA movement and said, you're our useful idiots, right, We're using your money to undermine your interests. Because Bannon is a populist on the cultural and economic level, he's not just anti woke, he's like genuinely anti late stage Western capitalism, and he would look at them that way. What he sees happening, I think accurately, is that MAGA

is becoming the useful idiot of the money class. And that's that is a serious threat to Trump's second term. If you're a Steep Bannon type of populist, or if you're just an average American who saw in Donald Trump's somebody that would be extend to helping hand to you know, your interests. So yeah, if you're bringing these people into your movement and you think they're your useful idiots, you can very easily become their useful idiots. Oh yeah at a moment on a whim. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Elon did not give a quarter of a billion dollars to get nothing out of this deal. He is the wealthiest man on the planet. He is extremely powerful, like he maybe he rivals Donald Trump in terms of his

level of power. And I think to not see that from the jump is and was foolish, which is why when Elon was and Vivigue, we're given their like doage Commissioner and was like, oh, they just gave them this make work project and it's like pathetic and good job for just kind of like pushing them to the side. I was always very skeptical of that because no, you

are giving them this whole government mandate. The Trump administration has thought through specific legal mechanisms that they can use to try to effectuate some of the desires of Elon Musk. This person has the ear of the President and is in a very powerful position.

Speaker 3

And doesn't have to give up any of his business is in order to have advisory capacity.

Speaker 2

Exactly right, Whereas if he was directly in government, he would have to abide by these specific conflict of interest rules that any federal government appointee or employee has to deal with. So since he stays on the outside, he gets to keep all this stuff, but that does not

mean that his power is ultimately diminished. And that's what really like outside the specific of H one bs and H two b's and all of the like, you know, the policy wonkery here, that's the meat of why this story is so important is because you have your first very clear ideological difference between the Steve Bann and Stephen Miller, you know, Laura Lumer and culture that wing of the party and the Elon Musk billionaire capitalist wing in the party.

And Elon won and it wasn't close. Trump sided with him unequivocally. So if there was any question about how this was going to go, I think we got a pretty clear answer this time around, and there's no sign of you know, they're all this like, oh, maybe Elon's gonna overstep and Trump's not gonna like it, and blah blah blah. There's no sign of that. They seem to be getting along famously, fabulously. I'm not sure Trump really cares that much about what happens in this administration. He's

staying out of jail. He doesn't have to run for reelection again. He can do what he wants to do. He doesn't have to care what Maga thinks of him or Steve Bannon thinks of him, ultimately, because he doesn't have to get re elected, and he rightly calculates that at the end of the day, they're all just gonna probably go along with what he does anyway. So I think that's, you know, it's a preview very much of things to come.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Absolutely, it would have been interesting actually to see if Donald Trump had disagreed with Musk on H one b's how Musk would have reacted to that. So, yeah, it is a lot on your line.

Speaker 2

All right, let's go ahead and move on to this other Republican intra party fight.

Speaker 3

Congress is returning to Washington, DC with an incredibly razor then margin for Republicans as they enter. I'll go ahead and share this first element. This is a story from Axios about basically what Mike Johnson has as he returns, which is a one vote margin. So just a little bit of context here, Axios writes House GOP hardliners continued hesitance to coalesce around Johnson suggests that President Like Trump's endorsement of the incumbent speaker has had little effect so far.

Now this is a quote from Ralph Norman to Axios. He says, a quote growing number of members want at minimum assurances from Johnson on meaningful cuts to spending before they vote to re elect him. Now I'm going to share a second story. This is Donald Trump backing Mike Johnson for House Speaker endorsement. As speaker. He said that on Monday on Truth socially referred to Mike Johnson enthusiastically

actually as a quote good hard working religious man. He will do the right thing and we will continue to win, so said Donald Trump. Now this is interesting because there is, as Access reported, a movement among Freedom Caucus types or Freedom Caucus adjacent people like Thomas Massey also Chip Roy

to block Mike Johnson from becoming speaker again. They're absolutely infuriated by how the omnibus negotiations transpired in late December, disgusted by it, said, we actually have the House of Representatives. You are the speaker. You are a Republican. Donald Trump just won what they believe was a mandate, and you are still governing like the political class has like you, Mike Johnson stood up against before you were speaker, and

we're basically heading into crystal. What I think is another Kevin McCarthy's cycle here, where Mike Johnson is basically the only option that they have, so they're pushing right now. They were sort of testing the waters that looked like, for example, chip Roy was testing the water to see if Jim Jordan was a plausible candidate that they could quickly see if Jim Jordan had enough momentum to just

be voted as speaker. But what I think we're heading towards more likely is another series of concessions from Mike Johnson to people like Chip Roy. They got some significant concessions, significant enough that McCarthy was ousted last time around by

his own concessions to Matt Gates. One of the things was something called the very art like parliamentary arcane thing called the motion to vacate, which was always around until Nancy Pelosi hilariously got rid of this, or she added a threshold and they got rid of that, which is how Matt Gates ultimately was able to oust Kevin McCarthy by bringing a vote on the speaker to the floor. So, you know, Mike Johnson might be in a position where he has to make some concessions that could ultimately be

his undoing. But Republicans right now know in their conference that they don't really have anyone to rally around. That is a consensus point between the Centrists and the Freedom Caucus people when you have such a thin, thin, razor thin majority. As they head back to Washington, DC, so Mike Johnson has already technically lost the votes. Thomas Massey says, no, that's all he can afford to lose. It looks like Chip Roy is a no as of right now, but

we'll see what happens. There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this.

Speaker 2

Yeah, he's got to get to eighteen unless people vote president. The math is a little bit confusing, for this, but it's not enough to get a plurality. You have to get a majority of the members of Congress in the House, which is why he can only afford to lose one. So Thomas Massey is a definite no. If you're saying Chip Roy is also likely to know, then that's it. He doesn't have the votes. Now does that mean that

Mike Johnson is not going to be the speaker? No, Mike Johnson is ultimately, unless something crazy happens, which you never know, Mike Johnson is ultimately going to be the Speaker of the House, but not before going through what I'm sure will be a very painful and public exercise of like you know, having to go back and forth and figure out what sort of concessions he's willing to give and what Thomas Massey at EL are willing to accept.

And they have some bargaining chips to work with here. So, first of all, Trump has to be certified as president. We all became intimately familiar with this electoral certification process January sixth, four years ago, and so it's got to be proved by the House. And if you don't have

a speaker, you can't do anything. So they need to get a speaker in place in order to certify the election results and make Donald Trump President of the United States, which I'm sure as part of what motivated Trump to weigh in on this fight and to try to close the door to any potential challengers, et cetera, et cetera. So there's that. The other thing is, you do have a debt ceiling constraint here. You're about to reach here in early January. So Janet Yellen came out and Emily's

got this up on the screen here. As soon as January fourteenth, the country could hit the debt ceiling limit. So in a previous deal, the debt ceiling had just been like suspended. By the way, debt ceiling is a stupid archaic thing. No other country has it, but we have it. It's like ridiculous. But anyway, so like Donald Trump, Crystal, it's true. I agree with Donald Trump when he says things like that. Anyway, it was extend, it was suspended.

So they just like got rid of it temporarily until January first, because they're getting some refunds back and whatever. They're going to have enough money to not hit the debt ceiling until roughly January fourteenth. Even that is not a hard limit, because then they can do what's called extraordinary measures, which means they move around the order of the payments, et cetera, et cetera, to extend what period

of time they have. However, it's kind of like once you hit January fourteenth through the twenty third, somewhere in that range, then the top clock is really ticking and you really actually have to deal with this. People like Thomas Massey, they'll go out and chip Roy they'll say, like oftentimes they're just like, I'm not voting for a debt ceiling increased period, end of story. We need to cut spending. That's their ideology, that's what they believe. They're

pretty consistent about it. So that's part of why they were so upset about the omnibus. Trump was upset about the omnibus because it didn't extend the debt ceiling, which creates immediate problems for him as his administration is coming in that he has to deal with. But in any case, that's one of the sort of like chips that they can play in terms of trying to extract whatever concessions

they want ultimately out of Mike Johnson. Then you have to remember, like it's not just the House that we're talking about here.

Speaker 4

Any sort of you know, spending cuts, etc.

Speaker 2

Like that also has to go through the Senate, where as of right now, you also have to get a filibuster, you know, proof sixty votes, which requires a collaboration of Democrats. So again, Mike Johnson's going to be speaker. But it's just illustrates there's a lot of tricky issues that Republicans are going to have to be dealing with. Ye're in the coming days. This first speaker vote happens literally tomorrow, in the coming days and weeks as Trump takes office.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and to your point, Krystal, this is all everything you just outlined. That's leverage. That was leverage that they understood they had with Kevin McCarthy, and it's a leverage that they know for sure they have now. So some of this is them saying, I actually can't take a vote for you, Like my constituents do not want me to vote for you. They don't want me to vote for the debt ceiling, Like I can't do it. So you need to give me something so that I can

tell them. You need to give me reason to make this okay. And so that's the leverage they have behind closed doors, and actually, you know, out in the open right now, you're seeing some of this this happen. What they can get from it is going to be fascinating because Mike Johnson is almost the only option. But you know, obviously, if you're you're shopping around Jim Jordan, you can say I'm voting for Jim Jordan. There's nothing you can do about it. Democrats are definitely not going to help Mike

Johnson this summer. I THINKI Kim Jeffries has already said something to that extent, So good luck, Mike. I'm probably gonna have to give up a whole lot.

Speaker 2

I have to say, as you know, as a lefty like I'm jealous of the way that you know, the Freedom Caucus and the way Thomas Massey and others recognize these this leverage that they have and recognize how to use it for their own ideological ends, even though those ideological ends are not my own. I respect the tactics, and I'm jealous that there isn't anyone on the Democratic

side willing to employ those tactics either. And I think that you know, the like it's become very clear that the tactical posture of the squad and a Bernie to let me, you know, play nice with the Democrats and let me see if that's the way that I can effectuate the most political change like that really defanged them and made them just another sort of rank and file Democratic estyle member. I'm still glad that they're there versus

you know, another more corporate Democrat. You know, they're more likely to vote well on the issues that I care about, but it has completely defaning them and completely undermined there the places where they could have wielded power, and there are a lot of places, because you know in the Senate, but in particular in the House, when the Democrats have the majority is also a very slim majority, and so they could have employed some of these tactics to further

left populist ideological interest and every opportunity effectively. I don't want to say it every that they never used any leverage whatsoever.

Speaker 4

That would be you know, a misstatement.

Speaker 2

But you know, they never were willing to go to the mat the way that the Freedom caucuses. They never were willing to really just aggressively be adversarial towards leadership the way that the Freedom Caucuses. And you know, the most important case in point of this is AOC. She wanted to be ranking Member on Oversight.

Speaker 4

It would have been a good.

Speaker 2

Position for her because it requires someone who could you know, communicate and be like mombastic whatever like. She would do well in that role. And Nancy Pelosi actively even after AOC did so much for the party and was a good, good girl and fell in line and did all the things they wanted her to do and advocated for Kamalin and back By and all that stuff. Even after all of that, and she reportedly promised I won't even primary I want even back primary challengers to incumb in Democrats.

They still behind the scenes, Nancy Pelosi pushes for her chosen candidate, Jerry Connelly, and blocks AOC from that position. So it was a failed tactical decision. And I am envious of the Republicans' willingness to play hardball in these negotiations.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean Ryan and I pushed Greg Kassar, the incoming chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, on exactly this. So if people want to see that sort of back and forth. Go check out Conference Friday from about a month ago, because I've always had the exact same question, and this gets to what I think might happen over of course, in the next couple of weeks with the Republican Conference, because fundamentally the post Tea Party is very

much came out of the Tea Party. The post Tea Party attitude of people like chip Roy was bolstered by certain populist Republicans who came from the Tea Party wave themselves saying, oh, I know my constituents are behind me. And not only are they behind me, they don't want me to go in here and make bad deals with you. They want me to make either no deals or good deals. And that's why we may see people like chip Roy like it's actually possible that they don't go along to

get along with Donald Trump. We saw Donald Trump actually attacking chip Roy a couple of weeks ago when the Omnibus was on the table and chip Row was threatening that they know fundamentally that their constituents are behind them when they block deals with the political establishment, so it gives them confidence and the squad should operate like that as well as sort of the post populist iteration of left populism in Congress. I shouldn't say post populist, but

the populist wave iteration. And they should know that that's where their constituents are too. And just finally, that means that you know, if your constituents are fully behind Donald Trump, they're going to want to see you go along with Trump. And that's the question that the Chipwroys of the world have to ask themselves in the next couple of weeks.

Speaker 4

Yep, it'll be interesting.

Speaker 3

Well, Crystal, the saga of It Ends with Us starring Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, has officially crossed the threshold from a story of celebrity intrigue to one of greater import I think it's really becoming a story about the media. And to be fair, we always could see a little bit of the internal Hollywood pr machinations creeping into public view.

So of the course of the last several months since the movie came out, and they famously did not promote the movie together, but it has since just in the last even forty eight hours, become a sposed me to story about how the media is handling allegations of sexual misconduct. Essentially, it's becoming a fascinating story. But I think a really important one. One of the reasons that I love following celebrity gossips so closely, Crystal, is because it's a low

stakes public relations game. And you see how journalists, and in this case, we were talking about the New York Times, We're not talking about TMZ, We're not talking about Pop Sugar or whatever else. We're talking about the New York Times, how easily they can be manipulated by powerful people in the public relations game. So right now, it's sort of a question of who's a jerk, Justin Baldoni or Blake Lively, And maybe the answer to that question is both of them.

But just yesterday, Variety published a story that I'm going to share on the screen right now because this is a hugely significant story in that it is a quite a rebuttal to a New York Times story that really really took Blake Lively's side. So this is the headline for a Variety. Justin Baldoni files two hundred and fifty million dollar lawsuit against New York Times over break Blake Lively story, saying it relied on her quote self serving narrative.

Now again, Crystal, I don't think we needed Justin Baldoni to file this suit to realize that it was relying on Blake Lively's narrative. Let me share the New York Times story right now. You can see we can bury Anyone inside a Hollywood smear machine that had the byline. You may recognize that byline. Viewers, listeners may recognize this byline. Megan Touhi, who was one of the famous New York Times Me Too reporters, very celebrated for me too reporting

in the initial wave of the me too movement. And I don't know about you, Crystal, but as I was reading through the original New York Times story, it seemed to me, just as a casual reader who hadn't looked at any of these documents, that there was a huge context gap that a lot of the producer's texts that were being published. So the one that's in the headline it says, quote we can bury anyone, we were missing

a lot of other parts of those conversations. So the New York Times is making it look as though Justin Baldoni had realized that Blake Lively was not happy with him and was going to run her own kind of campaign against him. Obviously, Millions and millions of dollars are on the line anytime you're promoting this. It's like a big product essentially, and so it means a lot to bottom lines for these big companies, and they treated really seriously.

And that's where celebrity gossip becomes a product in and of itself as well. So yeah, and you know, these allegations are that Baldoni was walking in on Blake Lively while she was breastfeeding, allegations that he bit her lip during a kissing scene, basically that he acted like a jerk. Nothing here I think constitutes like assault obviously, But he was also sort of walking around clothing himself as in

the sort of like moral garb of male feminism. So then it's like he seems to be orchestrating or his people seem to be orchestrating a social media campaign to take clips of Blake Lively and disseminate them and make it look like an organic uprising of people realizing that

Blake Lively has always been sort of a jerk. And then he comes in with this lawsuit against the New York Times and gives evidence to variety suggesting the New York Times, believe it or not, Crystal was overly gullible, And a lot of people will look at that more cynically and say, was you know, taking is like some type of orders from Blake Lively or something in return?

But I think what it looks like is they got drip drip drip bits from Blake Lively's team and did not confirm the context or were ideologically sort of wedded to the Lively narrative and to her side of the story that they weren't interested in the other context. Because what Baldoni is doing, I don't think he may get

a settlement. You're not gonna win. I think the suit against the New York Times, And as a journalist, you know, I don't think he should win the suit against the New York Times, because they're free to publish whatever nonsense they want to, and we're free to say that it's nonsense. But it looks like some of these things, at least from a journalistic standpoint, were would have been served by context, better context. And so the question now becomes whin the

New York Times had that context? So Crystal, what do you make of what we learned yesterday.

Speaker 2

Yeah, So just to back up for people who are like me and we're not really following the story outside of my sixteen year old being like, oh my god, mom, what do you think about this?

Speaker 4

Like what do I think about it? I don't even know about it. Who's Blake?

Speaker 2

That's where I had to start with, is like who is Blake Lively? And who is Justin Beldoni? That was where I had to start with all of this. But effectively there are co stars on this show movie it ends with us. Yeah, okay movie, and the movie one of the central themes also is around domestic violence. So that's how Justin Baldoni comes to like cloak himself in this like I'm an ally and I'm against toxic masculinity. And he's doing a podcast with Liz Plank, who's noted feminists,

et cetera. So he adopts this whole mantle, and during the promotion for this film, neither one of them. They won't appear together. And also the entertainment media picks up on the fact that a bunch of cast members have unfollowed him, so there seems to be some rift between him and everyone else. So then according to you know, some of the texts that have been released. He starts to panic of like, obviously she's not happy, they're not happy with us, Like they could really smears in the press.

What can we do to get ahead of that? And I think even without you know, some of the ways that the Times characterized it, obviously like they screwed up right, Like for example, that quote you know about we could bury anyone, et cetera, et cetera, left out the emoji that would have indicated to readers that they were being sarcastic. And they also left out a text that indicated directly that this PR team was actually not responsible for this

specific article that appeared. But nevertheless, even put in that aside, he enlisted PR professionals to basically try to get out of the story and flip the narrative. So at some point there seems to be this online organic like we don't like Blake Lively and she's kind of a bitch and she was a bit in this interview, and why she's just out there promoting her like alcohol company when you know alcohol can be linked in domestic violence and

she doesn't talk about domestic violence at all. There seemed to be this organic anti Blake Lively narrative that took hold in the public. And so when she gets her side of the story out in this New York Times piece, she alleges, with the aid of New York Times that effectively, like number one, you were inappropriate on this side in

any number of ways. You mentioned a few of them coming into my trailer when you know, at different times when I was naked, there were some allegations of like body shaming, she just had a baby, there were allegations that there were different boundary violations, and they both they had sex scenes in this movie. So you know, it's very fraught, and she's married and her husband apparently berated

Baldoni at one point. So any in case she llegis that that happened, then that there's this orchestrated campaign of retaliation against her.

Speaker 3

Okay, so now I'm just put up on the screen here.

You can see from Variety as an example, one of the juiciest tidbits from the New York Times story was this allegation that Baldoni had basically stormed in on Blake Lively while she was breastfeeding on the side of the movie and versus the Variety story that I know you were just about to get to, which says, well, the context there they have text messages of Blake Lively saying I'm just pumping in my trailer if you want to work out our lines, and Baldoni saying copy eating with

crew and we'll have that way.

Speaker 2

So effectively, from these texts, it's like, oh, she was like, come on over, I'm just here like pumping, meaning breast milk in my trailer if you want to work out on lines, like, come on over.

Speaker 3

And at the very least that context was it should have been been in the New York Time story, right, So maybe he's still barged in or whatever, and maybe there are more text messages saying not before you come in or whatever, there's a whatever. Yeah, it sounds like that should have been in the New York Times story, right.

Speaker 2

And then another instance where there was missing context was they say in the New York Times story that she alleges he.

Speaker 4

Showed her naked a naked video.

Speaker 2

Of his wife, which like, that's like, what are you doing there? And it turns out not that I still still wouldn't be really cool with this, but it turns out the naked video was of her during a home birth, so like the least sexual you know, like connotation or context for a nude vie that you could possibly get. That also left out of the New York Times piece. So you know, he had his little PR campaign which was successful in start of turning the public against her.

Then she fires back with this New York Times story that The New York Times was far too credulous about at best, at worst, like actively hid and manipulated some of the things that would be more favorable towards him. And now he's firing back with this lawsuit, which also you have to assume, right it's his lawsuit. This article is based on his side of the story. Is also likely cherry picking and leaving out some of the less

flattering details for him as well. So some of the core themes here are number one, like, you know, he went out and draped himself in very intentionally, Like that was part of the PR campaign. Drapes himself very intentionally in this. I'm an ally of women. I'm like, you know, I'm against toxic masculinity. I'm going to speak out against it. You should never harm women. Blah blah blah. He's doing this as part of a PR campaign to undermine this very specific woman.

Speaker 4

So you've got that aspect.

Speaker 2

Then you have her basically engaging in some of the same behavior in the media credulously picking it up, so you have that aspect, and then of course you just have you know, the whole specter of the way these two individuals who are human beings, yes, but also brands with a whole circle of people invested in their brands, who are waging like PR wars against each other. And you know, the public is being manipulated in any number of ways, and I think that part is very real.

And also like you know, to go and even layer deeper, and we're about to talk about OpenAI and some of these AI stuff, Like one of the possibilities here is even that chatbots were potentially wielded in this war between Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively, and it it does just make you like, this is kind of you know, it's not that consequential of a story ultimately what happened on the set between these two individuals, but it does also make you question, like how much of what we're being

fed by the media, fed on social media like these you know, interactions that appear to be real and a peer to be organic. How much of this is already just fake, already just you know, astroturfed, already just completely concocted by somebody for some reason to manipulate you and

your perception of reality. And to me, that's like the most kind of like dystopian angle of this, is that we really don't know how much of what we're already consuming on the web in media is real and how much is just literally generated, like falsely out of whole cloth.

Speaker 3

That's why this is damning for the New York Times, because if there's something that should stand between smear campaigns, information operations and the public, it's the free press. And for the New York Times, they're defending it and saying, you know, they didn't defend any specifics, to be clear, but they said, you know, we stand by our reporting.

But this is a celebrated me two reporter of the New York Times who seems to have been at the very least taken for a ride by the extremely powerful public relations team of Blake Lively that I guarantee you weaponized the reporters me too connections and feminist bona fides against them and for the benefit of the Blake Lively smear campaign. And we started this just by talking about how entertainment media is often just like a lower stakes

example of what happens in political media. So if you imagine, remember a lot of people probably do like you were talking about your daughter. These clips of Blake Lively going viral around the premiere of It ends with us. Their allegation is that Baldoni sort of his team Whether or not he knew about it is a different question, but his team astro turfed this viral momentum against Blake Lively by sort of creating accounts or feeding accounts these old videos.

And we actually have one right here that will go ahead and roll for everyone just for a taste, because you probably a lot of people probably remember seeing this stuff go viral at the time. But here we go. This is an interaction that Blake Lively had.

Speaker 6

Your little bump.

Speaker 3

Okay, So that was just like a short clip, but it was being used to say like, oh, look at Blake Lively gets congratulated by a reporter on her baby bump and then turns it back around on the reporter like that.

Speaker 2

It is basically like you're fat yeah, it seems crystal like a not a very kind thing to do. And yeah, well and but then here's where things get even more again complicated. That particular you know, I guess she's like an entertainment reporter, YouTuber whatever her last name.

Speaker 4

I think she's nor regional last it was like flaw.

Speaker 2

There's also a question about what her incentives were in resurfacing this interview, because she resurfaced this and did this whole like the interview that made me want to quit my job blah blah blah. And she also so she also had been very much pro Johnny Depp in the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial and that whole drama and lo and behold, Baldoni and Depp repped by the same PR agents. So now she denies that she says she

did this organically blah blah blah. But you know, there's a question there too of whether or not she had some incentives. And maybe those incentives were just like, oh, I've built this particular audience, and here's a way that I can you know, like get in on a similar storyline that may have a similar hook, etc. But this is also a potentially motivated actor in this whole thing as well. So, yeah, these things that can seem like they just sort of like organically popped out of the

ether and there's some public reaction against it. It's like, well, did that really happen or did you really have like an army of boths and some highly motivated influencers and Credul's journalists to push a particular view of the world that may or may not be accurate.

Speaker 3

So on that point, on that exact point, this is we were going to talk about this story before the Variety exclusive on Baldoni's lawsuit dropped. Because the New York Times piece was so conspicuously fed by Lively's team. And that doesn't mean that Lively is wrong and that Justin Baldoni is a jerk or a saint. It doesn't mean

any of that. What it means is that you could see in the sort of anatomy of the New York Times piece that it was coordinated by a public relations team on behalf of Blake Lively because it was so conspicuously missing context. And again, that's fine if you are a feminist metio reporter who wants to stand with Blake Lively, and that's just your opinion, You've reviewed the text messages

the team sent, you've asked the questions you feel irrelevant. Whatever, Fine, go ahead and do it, but don't do it and act like this is the objective or the most neutral version of the story. If you're leaving out context or not asking questions that would help you ascertain that context, that is being conspicuously hidden from you by Lively's team. And again, yeah, to Crystal's point, these are multi billion

dollar businesses. These are important, like the celebrity stuff. It's lower stakes obviously than politics, but it's important to their bottom lines, the health of their companies, to their shareholders, and so they treat this stuff like it's widgets. They treat these human interactions like these like their widgets. And the actors all know that the actors are investors. They're part of that producers, executive producers. So they play the game.

They understand what they are in all of this. They're making a lot of money off of it. But now put this to politics, and it's maddening to watch to see stories like this about any given topic. A Crystal from your perspective the New York Times coverage of Gaza, or from my perspective New York Times coverage of any immigration story or you know something dumb that Trump said, Like you can just see you can see the fingerprints.

The cheap fake stories were a great example ahead of the debate about how the Republican Party was circulating these cheap fake videos. You could see in the New York Times coverage at the time the fingerprints of the Biden White House and the DNC on those stories. And you have that perspective when your media and you do this

for your job. But this is the best example if you're a member of the public and you want to like see how the media came into feel like truth and information, read both of these stories and it'll be really eye opening. Yeah.

Speaker 2

And the thing is, like, okay, so even if you took out or even if you included the context that the Baldoni people say was missing of like, well, she was being sarcastic here, and they actually said one text earlier that like they weren't responsible for this story, but they kind of wish they were. You know, like, even if you added all that context, it still doesn't look

good for him. It's still a story. Yeah, he still very much paints a picture of he was worried that she was going to say some bad things about him, So he cloaks himself in this hole. I'm the women's ally and I'm against toxic. He cloaks himself in all of this, runs around talking about, you know, pretending like he really cares about domestic violence, and meanwhile, I was launching this pr campaign of retaliation against her. Like even if you add the context, that is all very clear.

It's just they wanted it to be a less nuanced and more clear cut in of him. They wanted the quote about we can bury anyone to stand on its own without having the you know, the supporting context, et cetera,

et cetera. And by doing that, by reaching further than what was you know, organically, they're and honest, as best we can tell at this point in this story, they really you know, they really end up undercutting her because now people just say, well, look, you did include that, so obviously this is just a hatchet job, like it's just bullshit, where I don't think it is all just bullshit, Like I think the general the basic contours of she was unhappy with him. He wanted to get ahead of it.

He launched this pr campaign of retaliation to get Like, I think that is all true.

Speaker 4

I don't.

Speaker 2

I don't think that's really deniable at this point. But because they wanted to go that extra mile and really paint him in this sort of like one dimensional villainous way, they end up overreaching and undercutting their entire story. So but not that I think they'll learn any lessons from this.

Speaker 3

They won't, but anyway, No, but big question could come is what the New York Time saw and if this suit proceeds, we will learn a lot more.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, and the discovery process could be interesting, yes.

Speaker 3

And sadly the winner from all this might be Harvey Weinstein, who is able to then say, you know, as egregious as what he clearly did was that, you know, this is the same thing to your point, Crystal, like, some of these stories can be real and newsy, and then because the media does such a bad job with them, they end up uttercutting actual victims and true. Yeah, so that there's much more to come from this, to be sure, and it's more than celebrity gossip at this point.

Speaker 2

So Saga and I brought you recently the news that and a whistle blower who had previously worked at open AI who had raised concerns about the way that they may be potentially violating patent and trademark agreements. That that whistleblower had been found. Now authorities deemed it a suicide.

But now we have the parents of that whistleblower, whose name is Sucier Bology, raising questions and saying that they are going to hire a private investigator in order to try to get to the bottom of what really happened here. Let's take a listen to a part of their press conference.

Speaker 3

Last person to talk to him, he was happy, more is not a depress or anything, and it was his birthday week.

Speaker 17

He made plans of going to see us in January. That was the last home conversation he had with him. Even he went into his apartment, never came out. There was no suicide notes left, and there's nobody else in the scene. That doesn't mean they can just come to conclusion. And we have seen the bloodshots in the bathroom, signs of fight in the bathroom.

Speaker 12

Vigil organizers say they're honoring Bilagi's bravery and raising awareness to.

Speaker 7

Corporate account in artificial intelligence.

Speaker 4

So there you go.

Speaker 2

Obviously, I mean AI is the highest sticks game that exists in the world right now. The amount of resources, government and corporate resources that are being poured into AI development is we genuinely don't even know how much money is going into this. There is an arms race going on right now to develop AI. Some of this is public, like the war between Sam Altman and Elon Musk. Some of it is not public. Peter Teel has funded a

number of stealth companies. You've got DARPA, which is a secretive agency within the US government that is funding research and development Israel, China, like, the list goes on of actors and interested participants here. So the amount of money at stake here is truly truly mind blowing. I mean probably somes that we've never seen in history. Is not

an eager exaggeration. Just to give you a sense of some of what he was sounding the alarm over, and in particular we were talking about The New York Times. In particular, was featured in a New York Times story raising concerns about what he had seen when he was at OpenAI. He elaborated on that interview in this post. He said, I recently participated in New York Times story about fair use and generative AI and why I'm skeptical that fair use would be a plausible defense for a

lot of generative AI products. I also wrote a blog post about the nitty gritty details of fair use and why I believe this. To give some context, I was at open Ai for nearly four years, worked on chat GPT for the last one and a half of them. I initially didn't know much about copyright, fair use, etc. But became curious after seeing all the lawsuits filed against

gen ai companies. When I tried to understand the issue better, I eventually came to the conclusion that fair use seems like a pretty implausible defense of a lot of generative AI products for the basic reason that they can create substitutes that compete with the data they're trained on. I've written up the more detailed reasons for why I believe

this in my post. Obvious say, I'm not a lawyer, but I still feel like it's important for even non lawyers to understand the law, both the letter of it and also why it's actually there in the first place. That being said, I don't want this to read as a critique of chat, GPT or open ai per se, because fair use and generative AI is a much broader issue than anyone product or company. I highly encourage mL

researchers to learn more about copyright. It is a really important topic and precedent that's off it cited like Google Books isn't actually as supportive as it might seem.

Speaker 4

Feel free to.

Speaker 2

Get in touch about this if you'd like to chat about fair use mL or copyright. And this is a central issue he's touching on here, Emily, because all of these large, large language learning models, all of them are trained on whatever data they can gobble up, and this is one of the critical components in how they learn and are able to produce the products like chatchept and

other products that we're all now able to use. And so we're talking books, we're talking transcripts of YouTube videos, we're talking literally anything they can get their hands on. And without that data, they're unable to train these lms and push them out into the world. So this is not a side issue. This is, you know, alongside like having sufficient you know, electricity and having the computational power. These are the key ingredients for the development of AI.

And you know, he was outspoken on it. And now his parents who listen. You know, these are grieving parents who I'm sure nobody wants to think that their son or daughter was so unhappy as to commit suicide and to end their own life. So you know, we always

always have to keep that in mind. But it's worth taking seriously this investigation simply because this is one of a you know, relatively small number of whistleblowers who we've seen said, you know what, what is being done here is wrong and I'm not going to be associated with it.

Speaker 3

Determines whether AI is built on a house of sand or like a really well built foundation. AI can be a house of cards if their fair use argument is erupted, and whether that's legally or in the court of public opinion. AI generative ailms will be a house of sand if they can't defend their fair use practices. So obviously what he was doing was very high stakes and a notable point from his parents there. They say there was no note and also they believe what they saw was a

sign of struggle. So the police obviously ruled this, as you mentioned, crystal suicide. But if the parents are saying the police ruled it a suicide despite there being signs of struggle, that's I think something just in the investigation stage people will be looking at very closely, and we will be looking at very close if there are serious signs of struggle that still resulted in the investigation being concluded as a suicide. That's a hugely significant piece of information from the parents.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and I'd be remiss if I didn't note that there were two Boeing whistleblowers who were found dead and was also deemed suicide. And in one of those instances in particular, and you know, same thing, friends and family said, he seemed vine no indication of depression, no indication of you know, anything that would lead directly to him taking his own life. Authorities deemed it a suicide. That's where things stand as of now. But this is one we'll we'll definitely keep our eyes on.

Speaker 3

And just one more point about Bellagi's last post. He was actively soliciting information, So that's that's just something to keep in mind. That last poster he's saying, get in touch with me. I want to hear your thoughts. That's a sort of active process of learning more coming to different conclusions to undermine the sort of fundamental the foundation really of LM so you can see where that would be of interest to people who have a lot of interest in those llms.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and just to tie this whole conversation, you're zooming out from this whistleblower back to what we were talking about with Elon and Trump and David Sachs and all these people. Like the H one B fight is a side shoe to the main event, which is AI development.

The resources that are being thrown into this truly arms race, both between nation states and between corporations to be you know, the furthest to head an AI to achieve was called a GI artificial general intelligence, to be the first to

develop that. This is all going on. Some of it is, you know, you can you can read about in the press, but there is not nearly enough media coverage, democratic debate transparent about what the plans are for this technology, how it will be deployed in our lives, what that will look like, how will upend the labor force We're talking about, you know, potentially greater than Industrial revolution level change over

a much shorter period of time. That's the real like undercurrent of the political games that are being played right now and the political moves that are being made obviously Elon Musk is a big player in that. Sam Altman of Open AI a big player in that. Noteworthy to me that after Trump wins, Sam comes in, It's like, let me give a.

Speaker 4

Million dollars to your inauguration, right. They have so much at stake.

Speaker 2

Here, Zuckerberg as well, Zuckerberg absolutely Zuckerberg as well, all of the big tech players massively invested and betting.

Speaker 4

On this AI future. And partly because.

Speaker 2

I mean the you know chat GPT like it's fun and seems harmless and I use it and whatever, Like it's hard to wrap your head around the scale of potential, just like incredible disruption that we could be facing, and even darker scenarios that you know are truly dystopian that if I you know, lay them out right now, you're going to think I sound like a crazy person. But

that AI researchers take very seriously as a possibility. This is all happening effectively behind closed doors, with a few comparatively small number of scientists and technologists who are making these decisions that could completely upend all of our lives. And so you know, this incident with this whistleblower is just a tiny window in to the stakes of this game and how much is happening and how consequential.

Speaker 4

It could be. It truly is like the biggest.

Speaker 2

And most existential political question of our time, and it's not being treated or debated that way. So I mentioned before, like I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can, because I do think that the stakes are potentially that high and that's significant. Like I said, this is just like one little, one little window into some of the concerns about AI and the way that it could transform our entire economy.

Speaker 3

I mean, yeah, the story, even just the fate of Bolagi himself. There's a lot more, a lot more to be learned about that, given the the what we just sawt from the parents, basically the commitment and the commitments, the idea that this is not what he would have done.

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah, much more to come. Absolutely.

Speaker 2

All right, Let's go ahead and transition to American doctors just back from Gaza, who has a message to share with the world.

Speaker 4

Let's get to that.

Speaker 2

We are very grateful and fortunate to be joined this morning pie at doctor Muhammad Khalil. He is American doctor based in Texas, a surgeon actually, who has just returned from his second trip to Gaza and wanted to share with us and our audience what he experienced there and his concerns based on what his colleagues are continuing to tell him are happening there on the ground.

Speaker 4

Doctor.

Speaker 2

Great to great to see you, Great to meet you, and thank you for joining us this morning.

Speaker 7

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2

Yeah, of course, so just tell us a little bit of about the context of your visit and some of the things that you saw there operating on the ground.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

Speaker 14

So I went with a humanitarian group into Gaza. I had actually been there the first time in April at European General Hospital and saw, you know, a lot of lower extremity injuries, a lot of I think we signed this letter to the New York Times about all the sniper shots that were that we saw in children, a lot of you know, U targeted to Taxis in discriminate bonding.

This time, I went up north in November to the Ali Hospital, which, if you remember, was the first hospital that was attacked, and there was a lot of questions as to whether a hospital would be attacked by the Israeli military and uh, this this experience was completely different,

just a lot of death and destruction. We did, you know, quite a bit of operating ortheedic surgery, surgery just you know, there's a lot of uh stabilizing fractures and unfortunately, you know, in this setting, there were a lot of amputations, just a ton of blast injuries.

Speaker 7

Up North.

Speaker 14

Though it's a very different type of warfare, you can't it's shake the feeling that the North is almost a testing ground for technological warfare. We saw a number of drones that were dropping bombs, and then off the back of those drones they've got quad copters that come down and shoot anything that's left moving. We had a number of children telling us that they would just have to lay there after an explosion so that they wouldn't move

and get shot. I think there's a lot of a sense that this is, you know, very much kind of utter destruction. What I would say is in April we saw a genocide. In November it just seemed like a full on holocaust. Everything is destroyed up North. There's really barely any buildings left that are standing, and the ones that are are partially destroyed, and people are trying to live in those in a makeshift environment.

Speaker 3

What can you tell us about how you saw the ratio of civilians. Obviously, this is very hard civilians to combatants. You know, you're not interrogating people when you're treating them. But in terms of like women and children that you saw, what do you make of the Israeli line that they are. You know, this is a defensible ratio of civilians to combatants.

Speaker 14

We did not see anyone that you could clearly identify was a combatant. I assume that you know, they're they're probably seeking help in other environments. Uh, because pretty much everyone that we treated was a non combatant. A number of them were actually family members of the medical providers in the hospital.

Speaker 7

I know one of one of the nurses that was working with us in the o R, his brother, his entire family. Uh.

Speaker 14

Most of them were dead, but a few people survived and we saw them in the er and you know, this was in the middle of the night, and then the next morning that nurse was back in the r with us, you know, just getting back to work.

Speaker 7

And it's it really is.

Speaker 14

If somebody was a combatant, they would I assume they were seeking help in other locations. Because pretty much the majority of people that we treated were children. Uh women or known family members of people that we.

Speaker 7

Were working with.

Speaker 4

Doctor.

Speaker 2

We covered earlier in the week the raid and destruction of Kamal odd One Hospital, which was in the north. My understanding was it was really the last functioning significant hospital in northern Gaza. You know, what can you tell us about the state of the healthcare system in northern Gaza when you were there, both in terms of facilities, personnel and also supplies.

Speaker 14

The We were actually north of the Netzeram corridor, so we were in what was considered northern Gaza above the Netzerm border, so that's in Gaza City. Kamala Dwan was about another ten minutes north of us, and Kamala Dwan and Indonesian are the only two hospitals up there, and

they're completely non functional. Now, there was a discussion of having our group go up to Kamaladwan because one of the purposes that we serve as European and American teams is sometimes we can be protective for the people that are at the hospital. I think there's the you know, when we left European Hospital and in Gaza in April, I was one of the part of the discussion is once the team stopped showing up. Then we know we're about to be attacked, and so going up to kamadwe

was not not an option. And we knew that hospital was under sage the whole time we were there. And there were a bunch of messages because everyone knows doctor Hasama Viasafia up in the in the area, and you know, we're what's that messaging him and stuff and kind of getting an update. But it was it was not very functional even back in November. Now it's completely non functional after having been invaded and destroyed.

Speaker 3

Well, yeah, and let me ask about another line of argumentation. You hear a lot from Israel and extra from the United States as well about hospitals in particular being used as hamas strongholds or places of strategy organization for hamas sort of using hospital patients as human shields. What did you see to that extent, if anything, and what do you make of that line? Doctor?

Speaker 14

I think at this stage that is a hard thing to continue to uh.

Speaker 7

To push that narrative.

Speaker 14

I mean, so many hospitals have been destroyed and nothing has been found or at least, you know, shown to have have have actually been uncovered. The actual hospital functions are what are getting limited. I think the death count, the death tolls and the counts that we're hearing are

horribly underwhelming. You know, every night that you're at the hospital, you see them bring the dead bodies to the area where they will wash them and then bury them, and it's it's I mean, on average you're probably seeing twenty to thirty at night, and the death toll has kind of been stalled for for many months now. The use of human shields, I think is a is a very

tenuous argument. A number of the nurses and doctors that we talked to were there actually at the Ul Shifa invasion and during that siege they were actually drinking ringers, lactate and normal sailing to you know, get hydration. And there were a number of the providers that they recounted stories of being being told to undress and then they would have to go room to room and basically search the hospital for the Israeli military with a drone and a dog following them.

Speaker 2

So they were effectively being used as human shields by the IDF.

Speaker 14

Exactly exactly, and as far as the the hamas using human shields there, if you taught the challenges is that

right now? I think there is no real evidence that that is being done because at least in the hospital setting, because for pretty much, you know, since a month or two into this war, there have been medical teams in a number of these hospitals, and I don't think there's been one story from any of the American, European or foreign medical providers of the Hamas coming in and using human shields in the hospital.

Speaker 2

Doctor, what can you tell us about, you know, the availability of food, of clean water, of basic sanitation at this point in northern Gaza.

Speaker 7

It's incredibly limited.

Speaker 14

I mean, I think you know, from our standpoint, you know, we go in to try to help and provide medical relief, but we really learn so much from the medical providers that are there already in Gaza.

Speaker 7

I mean, it is.

Speaker 14

A masterclass and taking care of people with very limited resources. So you know, right now, just equipment wise there when we were up north, there's basically no external fixators like we were using in the South. They're reusing external fixator equipment that's taken off of other patients when they get fixed or when they pass away. There's no intermedullary nails like the nails that we put down the shaft of a bone to stabilize it. No pedical screws. I mean,

it's just very limited from a medical supply standpoint. Food is also incredibly limited. Like I actually turned I had my birthday there when I when I was there in November, and they they they kind of made the joke that, uh, you know, we would get you a cake, but there's no there's no sugar and no eggs in Gaza every every and there.

Speaker 7

It's incredible how much, how what.

Speaker 14

Great lengths they go to to try to provide you food when they have so little. So we would we would have pew bread and and one of the other visiting teams brought olive oil. Uh, and so we would have Peter bread and olive oil in the mornings with the with the team.

Speaker 7

Uh.

Speaker 14

So many of the people have lost an incredible amount of weight. I actually, you know, before I turned forty, I tried to I got on a healthcake and lost a bunch of weight, and so I was I just shared my overweight photos from the past just to kind of, you know, uh, show them where I was.

Speaker 7

But every single person.

Speaker 14

We had like a kind of a humorous moment, like in between cases where everybody was showing me their pictures when they were big and how how skinny they are now, and it's just like it was kind of an interesting way to kind of relate to the people there. But obviously my weight loss was intentional and for a lot of these guys it isn't.

Speaker 3

And what was your experience with like creator seeing what aid's able to get through, what medical assistant's able to get through. Obviously you're based in Texas and you were able to get over there, but I imagine they're very short staffed when it comes to hospital positions, doctors, medical care. In addition to them, you know, you probably saw a

lot of malnourishment and food shortages. So what was what was it like sort of watching people try to get medical aid, even just yourself and food into gaza.

Speaker 14

Yeah, so the first time we went in April, it was actually we went through the Rougha border and we were able to bring in you know, I think we had like ninety suit cases full of not just equipment, but also so emergency food packs. Uh, you know, baby formula,

feminine supplies. All those things were able to get in because when you go through the rougher border, there was a year there was an Egyptian entry in an Israeli entry, and the doctor the medical teams could go through the Egyptian entry, so we were able to bring in a bunch of stuff. This time you're going through Crem Shalom and you're not really able to bring in anything other than personal.

Speaker 7

Supplies, so to one suitcase.

Speaker 14

And one carry on, and so we really weren't able to bring as much. You're just kind of bringing in your own your own stuff there. You know, we did bring a lot of One of the suitcases is full of you know, emergency food supplies and like protein bars and stuff like that. So brought in a surplus so that we could hand some of that out. But there is an incredible limitation and resources. I think the other thing is the limitation and money being brought in.

Speaker 7

It's I mean, we.

Speaker 14

Talk about inflation at a an astronomical level, like I mean, you know, a gallon of gas is about eighty dollars or you know, a gallon of diesel, and it's it's it's remarkable how everything is in shekels or US dollars.

Speaker 7

There's no profession of any other form of currency. The first time I went.

Speaker 14

I brought some Egyptian currency and they were like, yeah, we can't, we can't use that here. It's just everything is incredibly inflated, and it's interesting when you go north. I think it's a sad marker of how much the

population has thinned. The aid that does get in. There's you know, if you talk to the people on the ground, there's this suspicion that the aid is that is being brought in is being given to businessmen and not necessarily people on the up and up, so that they can take the aid, mark it up and try to sell it to people. And they feel that that's being conducted

through contacts in the Israeli military. If you ask the individual people on the ground, the supply is act better in the north because the demand has gone down and south prices have skyrocketed. So it was a very interesting

thing when we went into the south. You know, we prayed behind one of the guys that runs the morgue was leading prayer, and so after his prayer, like he put up his hands and specifically made a prayer for the people in the north because there's there's you know, it's known that there's so much death and destruction there.

But then when we went north and then we're coming back down south, they actually a lot of people in the North wanted to give things to us to take to their family in the South because they're going to die here and this this stuff needs to get to our family, and things are so expensive down south that they can't they can't get anything. So the supply is actually lower in the South and demand is higher, so the prices are just skyrocketed.

Speaker 2

Doctor, What are people what hope are they holding on too? Because you know, at this point, like just for me personally, I feel like there was a huge college protest movement in terms of the US contexts like that didn't move the needle. You know, there was some hope that perhaps Spiden and Harris could be pressured in some way that

obviously didn't move the needle. Now you have an incoming administration that you know, is has long been very hostile basically long done what you know, the Israelis have wanted them to do. So what if people want us to know and what hope are they hanging on to at this point?

Speaker 7

It depends on who you ask.

Speaker 14

So, you know, when we were meeting with one of the guys that does run the morgue and he gets a lot of the you know, the the bodies to prepare. And then Barry, he's a very upbeat guy and was joking around and you know, very social and one of our teammates asked him give us a message of hope for the people out out in the world, and he's like, what hope.

Speaker 7

There is no hope. We're all going to die.

Speaker 14

We just have to do our best while we're while we're here, and you know, it's it's very humbling to year someone as upbeat as that saying something like that.

Speaker 7

But then, you know, on the flip.

Speaker 14

Side, whenever the election results got announced, everyone's kind of joking in the O R and in the UH. In the courtyard of the hospital, you know, one of the nurses daughters was killed, and so his other daughter and sons were playing by the you know, because they bury everybody in the courtyard or right outside the hospital. It's just graves as far as you can as you can see. And this, you know, one of the nurse's sons is a teenager and he was just like, he's like, you're

going to beat Trump. He's like, if you tell, if you see Trump tell him, guys, is not just gonna free Palistine, It's going to free the whole world. I think there's this sense that even though Trump, you know, one of the doctors is like Trump has a son in law that's Lebanese, maybe he's going to be a

little more more uh favorable. I think that the general sense is that even though you know, Trump has been pretty derogatory in the way that he's talked about Palestinians, I think the thought is that you can't really appeal to his humanitarian side, but you might be at least appealed to his ego to not look subservient to nen

Yahoo and Israeli leadership in perpetuity. I mean, I think on the Kama Harris and Biden's side, there just seemed to be no light at the end of the tunnel in terms of them ever standing up to know what was being done in Israel, even if it violates our own laws.

Speaker 7

But with Trump, perhaps you can count on his ego eventually taking over.

Speaker 2

Doctor Khalil, thank you so much for spending some time with us, and thank you so much again for the work that you do, which to me is unimaginable. Your level of personal courage and ethics and morality to go and put yourself in such a difficult and dangerous situation.

Speaker 4

So we're really grateful. Is there anything.

Speaker 2

Anything else you want to share or anywhere you want people to go to follow what's happening on the ground.

Speaker 7

Yeah, No, I think I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 14

I mean, when we're there's I've never felt the feeling of survivor's guilt before, but this is something that that you get. You really hits home when you're when you're leaving Gaza, and as much as we you know, uh, as much as it may take, you know, kind of putting your your fears to the side to go there, you're just humbled by how brave the people that are

there actually are. Like I mean, it's they literally tell you they won't even tell you the number of family members that they've lost unless you ask them, and then they just they they take it so well and then continue to work to help people even without pay, like in the hospital.

Speaker 7

It's truly unimaginable.

Speaker 14

And I think, like you know, anything that all I can tell people is, you know, if the money and donations, if you can find organizations like you know, World Central Kitchen Rama.

Speaker 7

Keep donating. But the biggest thing is I think.

Speaker 14

Speaking up, like I don't know how long this can continue to happen, but at some point it's got to stop. And I think, like you know, a lot of the attention on this has been diverted. Now after a year of this going on, it's kind of hard to keep focused on it. But just you know, anyone who's got an interest, please just keep educating people.

Speaker 4

Doctor, thank you so much, and happy New Year to you as well.

Speaker 7

Thank you guys.

Speaker 2

All right, everyone once again, Happy new year to you. Here we go twenty twenty five, ready or not. And Emily, thank you so much for hosting with me today. Monday, Soccer will not be back, but Emily's a little busy that day, so I'm going to book a bunch of really interesting guests. We're going to do a show. I'll be back in the studio for that and Ben Soccer will return. We'll get back to the regular scheduled programming. But always a pleasure, Emily. We always talk too much, though I.

Speaker 3

Know we always do it. You can always it's so stereotypical. Although sometimes the bro shows go along. That's true, not quite this long.

Speaker 4

That is true. That is true.

Speaker 2

All right, guys, thank you so much for watching, and enjoy your weekend. I'll see you back here next week.

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