Music. But take it easy, take it easy. And they love us already, David. Man. So today's a special, special, special day for me. I'm not even going to begin going on this curriculum vitae to introduce this man. It speaks for itself. himself, he's probably penned more hits than I have grass in my yard, a consummate producer. Performer, composer, arranger, someone who has made an indelible impact on the music industry, the great David Foster. Hey.
Welcome. Thank you, David. That was a great introduction. And I want to say before we get started, although we are started, and I'll only say this once, okay? Okay. I wanted to do this podcast for many reasons, but I bugged you actually to do it because if somebody could say, pick one drummer for the rest of your life, it could only be one, it would be you. You are the greatest, in my opinion, the greatest living drummer ever and the nicest guy.
I'm not going to say it again from here on, I'm going to pretend you're not a drummer, you're not a musician, you're not anybody except a guy interviewing me, but I have to get that out front because otherwise i'll keep saying it throughout the interview i i just marvel and always am honored in your presence so but we're done with that well no more okay i i've just got to i'm speechless and i i can't done enough done i mean otherwise i'm gonna blow you're just you're
just an interviewer now to me i'm an interviewer now and i'm just gonna blush and cry yeah yeah so did music you know come to you or did you go to music what what made you want to be a musician I'm going to start there. Sure. And you know, now that my two-year-old son is playing the drums, and we'll talk about that probably, and I see what I'm trying to do to inspire him.
And then I realized that my father, who was an amateur piano player, does not what he did for a living, but he was a really good stride piano player. And he was very patient with me. And I think he led me to the piano at a very early age, maybe age three or four. And then I discovered that I had perfect pitch. And then so my parents was, oh, well, he's got something.
So let's dig in. And it's a common story of, you know, they didn't have any money, but somehow they found enough money to get me, you know, 25% lessons at age five. And also my father would come home, drag himself home from work and spend that time at the piano showing me stride things. And it was, you know, invaluable. Didn't feel like it at the time, but it's proved to be invaluable. Oh, absolutely. Did you, so after the stride, did you just jump right into classical?
I did. And it was a mandate for my parents. And I liked it for a while. And then I did it for eight years, but there was always these things brewing. And I realized that the reason I really didn't like it was because I didn't like playing other people's music. And so to this day, if you and I are in a bar and somebody shouts out, hey, do whatever in the key, I can't do it because I have no repertoire, really, of other people's music because I preferred to write my own music, good and bad.
So by age 13, I was pretty much done with the classical, but what a great training ground it was to give me that so that I could write for an orchestra and I could understand the orchestra. And I've used an orchestra on most of my records. Yeah, absolutely. And then you probably got exposed to jazz playing as well, I'm sure. I mean, the stride obviously was an open door. The kick open for the jazz thing, I would imagine, came later. Yeah.
And so the jazz thing is funny. And I will reference you again, because I had two great things happen more in my life musically while I was formulating. One was a great band teacher who allowed me to choose, pick a different instrument every three months. And so in three months, I would play the clarinet, then the bassoon, and then the trombone, and then the baritone. And I never got really good at any of them, but it gave me a working knowledge of all the instruments.
And even at three months, I was as good as the other kids, or maybe even a little better. Not great, but enough to have a working knowledge. So there was that. And then there was a friend of mine who indoctrinated me into the world of jazz, a great guy named Rick Reynolds, who was a really good bass player, upright bass player, hard to find in Victoria, British Columbia, where I grew up on an island.
You know you had you ordered an album you had to wait three months for it to come but he sat me down every saturday for it seemed like years and he would say this is bill evans this is keith charrick and this is vince carolli and this is then he'd go deeper this is colonia's monk and and this is denny zeitlin and this is you know and you would go deep deep deep to things that and i i really acquired my taste for jazz and it's why i love jazz to this day but here's the catch.
And this required no response from you. I loved it. I just wasn't good at it. And so I have a great understanding of it, but I realized early on, like the classical thing, I just wasn't going to be good enough. But again, it gave me the opportunity with my buddies Jay and Bill to write a song like After the Love is Gone, which is Bill Evans' changes disguised. And so it gave me that, foundation and I have a great love of jazz. I just can't do it, but it's okay. You know, I have enough.
I have enough. Okay. I mean, you know, you can say that about yourself, but I was going to get to, after the love is gone, one of the greatest songs ever written, you know, especially in pop history. I mean, that's, it's, it's just a, a masterclass. It's a masterpiece, but you know, without getting ahead of myself, I think that the training that you had, because you you're talking about about the extent of the classical training that you had and you.
Know the the the jazz exposure and yada yada and you know picking different instruments it sounds to me that that we're just talking about rock talent here and a prodigious talent because, somehow all those things came together to the point where I mean we've played together quite quite a bit. And I've seen you on pretty hairy red light moments where your confidence is so unshakable and it's what you play is so accurate, you know, and, and you, you, you just read these things down.
The occasion accurate for the occasion. Well, but it it's, I've seen it on many occasions and whenever the light goes on, you're just there. There's no nothing. It's just just immovable. There's no hint of anxiety. There's no hint of, of any kind of trepidation or, or, you know, it's just, you're going to do this and that's that.
And, and it all it's. And so, so, you know, again, I, I kind of wanted to ease into this, but, but, but, you know, what I'm seeing is I want to know how you developed or how that mindset came along, because I've worked with you many times as a producer. Yeah. Of you being a producer, and you're so...
You get the job done so efficiently that like for example you know i remember one time we were we were doing now a michael buble record out at your studio and you know i i was going to punch a part and before i could even find the bar number you guys were already there punching and you're like where were you you know and i thought i was fast you guys were you were already there i mean and so So that whole ultra-Uber efficiency and that mindset of you just being able to sort of ...
It's almost like someone who either was brought up in a certain way or someone who had training. Like NLP training or Tony Robbins stuff.
You know what I mean? mean like how do you cultivate that that unflappable ability to just do stuff bam efficiently it's a fantastic question and if you want to think i've never seen anything like it well i appreciate that and makes me think deeply and i can only attribute it to excuse me my upbringing you know my parents were amazing and they supported me and my parents i have six i have six sisters incredible sisters all of them my parents have always made me feel special and i guess that's a
gift unto itself you know like i don't want to go as far as to say you can do anything you want you can you know but they always made me feel special which i guess translates to confidence, and i probably like you when we were kids reading the back of album covers going man one day, one day i'm going to sit in the studio with hal blaine i'm going to know larry nechtel i'm going going to know these guys i'm i want to be one of them because i think i'm good enough to be one of them and so
you know the trajectory that path just sort of gets a life of its own in fact when i'm when i'm giving little lectures at at colleges you know in universities i have music classes first thing i say is i'm getting i'm whining i'm going sideways a little bit but. First thing i say is anybody that puts up their hand and says how can i be a record producer producer is never going to be one. You can't ask the question, right? I never asked that of anybody.
Did you ever ask anybody how you can be a drummer? Never. Did you ever ask anybody how you could do a podcast? Maybe the technical stuff, but no. It's just one foot in front of the other and the path is clear and the goalpost keeps moving. Always. You got to move the goalpost. Always. Okay. So, so you, but, but as I recall, I mean, because you were in the session scene before I was, I mean, I, I didn't get to LA till I moved there in the, in the spring of 78.
And, and I was on the road for a couple of years with Frank Zappa. And, you know, I was, I got to the point where I just thought, well, you know, I can't get arrested, you know, on my time off.
I wanted to do other stuff. off and and and i wanted to do dates i wanted to be a studio player because first of all it was really about the idea of playing a lot of different kinds of music with a lot of different kinds with a lot of different people and documenting it it was to me it really meant something special because it was going to be documented forever and yeah i liked a lot of different things So, so I ended up starting doing that maybe in late 79,
early 80, but, but you, you were, I mean, I was done by then I was done. Yeah. Although I remember I, I was lucky enough to be on some sessions where you came in. I think I'm trying to remember if it was, uh, uh. I can't remember which record it was now, but I saw it a couple of times. Maybe some Jarrell records? No, it was something that, maybe it was Peter Allen or something. It could have been. Yeah. Yeah. Early on, like early 80s. Yeah, so I was producing and playing by
then. Right. I always did it on my own productions. Okay. But I only really did sessions from 76 to 79.
And then i i but during those three years they were again formidable because i looked into through the glass you know and i would see these producers and i i loved the good ones and i loved the bad ones for different reasons the good ones obviously you can learn from but i learned more from the bad ones it's like wow that's dumb like why would you ever do that and i'm not a snob when it comes to, producers i think there's some great great record producers that can't play
an instrument don't really know music, can't read music. That's fine. I don't care about that. I think that the only quality that you have to have to be a great record producer is you have to have a great love of music and you have to have the people's taste. Other than that, it doesn't matter. The fact that I can play and write and arrange, do all that fancy stuff, that doesn't alone make me a great record producer, but the choices you make is what makes you a great record producer.
So in those three years, when I was a studio musician, I learned a lot from the bad producers, the ones that were just like, they were useless. They were just useless. Yeah. It taught you what not to do right away. And I'm sure you just had to sort of just say, okay, you're producing, I'm going to play, so I'm staying out of it, right? For the most part. But then I was young and cocky, and I'm sure I got arrogant, but more than...
Arrogant i probably took over a lot of sessions you know like if the producer would say hey do you want an intro yeah i'll give you an intro i mean i'll give you whatever you want and and that's part of being a studio musician right you just give and give yeah yeah yeah i mean that's there's famous stories about you saving songs like that and you know we need an intro called david foster we need someone to save this song called david
foster so you know what about rick barker i mean for a classic example of you know hey just play a little riff here and it was It was, and he never got songwriting credit for it, and it became a huge thing.
But that was, back in that time, and even earlier, it was sort of, that was happening a lot where, I mean, like the Wrecking Crew, Carol Kay, all these people were coming up with these little lines and hooky things that really became signature parts of the songs that they probably- It was your job. Yeah. I mean, it's a tough thing. How do you, how do you deal with publishing with that? It's a, it's an area.
I have a question for you though, Vinny, because Frank Zappa has always fascinated me and I, I did see him live once and I believe Ralph Humphries was playing drums with him at that point. And George Duke, was that before your time or after your time? It was before me.
Before you. Yeah. So can you just briefly summarize, you probably talked about it ad nauseum on your podcast, but just summarize who he was and what what kind of a musician he was he you know honestly i've kind of come up with um excuse me to me it was like it was it was like boot camp meets juilliard meets comedy central that's that's what it was and it was a whirlwind like that for two and a half years that i did it and he was really you know again one of those people that somehow really
knew how to sort of you know like a drill sergeant but but in a good way because it really kept you on your toes he would i mean we would rehearse for eight hours a day for three months before we went on tour and you know he would try things and then change them and try them and change them and we We would have to remember these revisions. And so it exercised that muscle and really got us paying attention in a lot of ways. And we had to read really well and...
All that it was was it annoying at times no it wasn't it was i it to me it was like a big adventure you know yeah so because i i loved it i loved all that sort of thing it was exciting i wanted to just play and be challenged and just you know push myself and and and it just ticked all those boxes and and you know i i liked it also because you know he had that whole comedic satirical element to him that was really was really funny you know so so yeah
that's kind of international what it was like i mean that's a that's a thing i'd be jealous of to spend a little time with frank just to sit at his knees at his at his feet just listen to him talk because i've seen interviews with him he's just he's like a professor you know yeah he is and he was he's really smart guy and you know and he he was really into composing and being a serious composer and And I think that,
you know, he may not have been recognized even posthumously as much as he probably should be, but he loved all that. He loved, you know, Edgar Varese and Stockhausen and Stravinsky and, you know what I mean? So those were like his heroes. And so, yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell. Shell but but you know but i want to just back to the whole producers thing because i mean you know.
So so you talk about frank and it just reminded me of of how he was very very matter of fact and boom boom boom boom got things done and then i meet you and i work with you and it was the same thing it was like very efficient fast well-oiled efficiency machine so you know and and it's interesting because i would think to myself well you know i i wonder why more producers can't do do that, you know, and I understand also the whole idea of.
Like, you know, for me, when I started doing dates, it was just one two-inch machine, and the arranger was in the room, and everybody was in the same room, and time was money, and you had to read it and play it down, and next. So, you know, I got into reading, and boom, boom, boom, and, you know, getting that muscle coming up with the right part right away. And to the point where, you know, I started traveling and doing sessions in other places, and I'd be like, where's the chart?
And they're like, what do you mean, what chart? We're learning this. So I'm like, oh, you know, I'm back, back into this, this whole thing of they're taking their time. And, you know, over the, over the years, I sort of saw the difference between those kind of situations where maybe you want to do that, you know, because you've got this unmolded lump of clay and other times where, you know, you don't want to do that for the most part because, you know, this is not that kind of thing.
You got to make decisions fast and i think that that you know i think i think a lot of the things that i saw was that there were producers who who were kind of trying to do that sort of creative, let's just find something you know and just beat it to death when when really, you know they went past it way far far past it to the yeah where i you know i would start thinking You went way past it. You're burning us out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, the efficiency, again, you've got me thinking
now about my childhood. Yeah. I've never, ever, ever thought about this before or never discussed it with anybody. Not that it's private, but seven kids, a working father, no money, but we weren't poor sort of thing. Yeah, yeah.
Big treat once a month would be fish and chips. and but we were get we were given like you know one third of one piece of fish each not because my parents were trying to starve us was just that's all that there was and then my mother would maybe give me like another third you know it's like maybe that efficiency that i learned as a kid from my parents maybe that drifted into my into my record making world but i'm not that guy I never was that wants excess on my tape.
I say tape, it's not already taped now, but of course, now with Pro Tools, now you got to have as many tracks as you want. But I never was that guy was like, hey, let's do three guitar solos and I'll pick later. No, we're going to figure it out right now. Let's try another drummer, a different approach, but I'll pick later. Never. I don't want to. I was lean and mean always, like every single time.
There's no excess fat on the tape. And that meant that sometimes I probably missed out on some cool stuff, right? But for the most part, 95% or 90%, I knew what I wanted. I got what I wanted. I didn't need anything else. Making records is not a democracy. Sorry to say. It's just not. Well said. Well said. And, you know, did you miss out on stuff? Who knows?
It's so hypothetical. And, you know, because you can go the other way where, you know, I've seen, you know, when it was tape, like 30 reels of tape, you know, on one song, as if they're going to pick the take out and go back and forth and go, oh, you know, put that other reel on, I think, take two versus take 70. It wasn't going to happen. But Vinny, I will say about our dear friend, my dear friend, and your friend too, Jay Graydon was an exception. I think you probably worked for him, right?
Jay liked to beat the hell out of everybody. We talked about it, laughed about it. Steve Lukather and Jay Graydon and I had dinner actually a couple of weeks ago right before my surgery and it was just so much fun and we laughed about it. And he did beat everybody up, including me because I was a piano player on those Al Jarreau records and the man in transfer and I was a co-writer, but he was the producer and he beat the hell out of us.
But the results were so amazing i didn't know half the time what he was looking for but those records i i think anyway are just yeah well he knew what he wanted yeah but well the difference between someone who's really done another just kind of you know there's no yeah you're going to tell the difference when when it was first possible to do any kind of sound on sound or punching in or overdubbing or fixing or any of that, the first people that apparently,
I read this somewhere, that jumped on it were classical musicians. They couldn't wait. They couldn't wait to go. Really? Yeah. I mean, I would have never thought that. I would have thought they would have been the ones who just top to bottom, right?
Yeah. But I was reading in some tape op magazine or one of those sort of, and they were citing examples where they would say, no, you know, it should be here, and i should detune this and you know for this this note should be yeah and i just that really surprised me because i would have it's you but you know those purists yeah yeah have you i mean you know what what was what was some of the most memorable things that that you've done production
wise that you're you really really really feel proud of i mean this is a tough one because Because I think, you know, in your case, it's, I have a feeling that, that it's, you know, it's always sort of, you just have an open mind and you just do your thing and it's always at that level, but there's got to be something that's really dear to your heart in that regard. I would say that, yeah, it's again, another great question. I would say that.
Probably, in my opinion, the most perfect record, or close to perfect, that I produced was a song for Chicago called Hard Habit to Break. And it's just, for me, I just thought that, you know, all the, everything came together in that record with the drumming. And, you know, you remember Danny Serafin, of course. And I think Michael Landau played guitar.
Maybe it was Michael Thompson. Gosh, I don't want to get that wrong. long that record for me but also there's those moments to stick out like i will always love you with whitney which you know i realize that has made an indelible mark on society taking a little country tune and and turning it all around and having that in my head was it's kind of cool my time with earth wind and fire was absolutely invaluable i mean maurice white and i know you you know those guys maurice
was like a god to me still is we missed a lot right yeah no i i i um it was funny because i played on on one track on maurice's solo record and and i don't know how it came it came to my attention but but i i just went oh yeah and i and i was so honored by that i went and bought the vinyl recently just so i could record yeah i wanted to have it as like you know That kind of hard memento of it. But yeah, but carry on. Yeah. I mean, Maurice. He was a good drummer too. Yeah.
He played drums on Can't Hide Love, which is pretty astounding. Wow. I didn't know that. Yes, he did. Oh. This Ramsey Lewis thing that he had, you know? Oh, yeah. And, you know, production-wise, Vinny, Maurice stands alone as the only producer. I never met Phil Spector, but Maurice to me stands alone. Yeah. The only record producer that. The more stuff he puts on the track, the better it gets. The rest of us slobs try to cover it up. Like, oh, the windmill guitar part might help that.
Oh, let's add a tambourine. That's going to make it better for sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right? And it doesn't. Yeah. Right. We're used to the extravagance and the luxuriousness of the overdubs that he puts on there with just the 10 tracks of percussion. Again, no waste. He knew what he was doing, but the more he put on, the better those records got. It's amazing. I listened to him over and over and it's just probably my favorite band. You know, they just make me feel good all the time.
Yeah. And Verdine. They can end a war, you know. Verdine is the bass player. Forget it. Picks notes that no other bass player would pick. Amazing. No other bass player would pick. Well, who does a major third against a minor chord? Like nobody. But Maurice told me, he said, hey, buddy, there's no wrong notes.
There's just good notes and bad notes amazing right right amazing wow so so after the love is gone you co-wrote that right it was that was that something that was you know did it kind of come easy with with with the collaboration that you did or was it sort of it's it's a funny enough story that i'll take one minute to tell it yeah i was in barry gordy's office excuse me. And I'm sorry, I should note for your listeners and your viewers that I just had back surgery two and a half weeks ago.
So I'm like squirming and coughing and blah, blah, blah, but doing great, man. Happy to be here. Anyway, I was in Barry Gordy's office and I had just produced my very first record. An artist named JP Morgan. She was a somewhat of a singer, but more of a TV personality, but nobody was asking me to produce. And we had like a $5,000 budget or something. Anyway, and I was hyping the record to him, playing him some songs. He was like, I don't know, blah, blah, blah.
He said, do you have any more songs? I was like, yeah, actually. And I went to the piano. May God kill me this second if I'm not telling the truth. I went to the piano without a notion of what I was going to play, and the entire chorus of After the Love Has Gone fell out. Wow. Most of the lyrics, or at least the lyric line. I just went, and oh, after the love, and Barry Gray was like, holy jeez, what is that?
And then it turns out there was a friend of mine who got it to Maurice White, and well, of course, I went to Jay Graydon and did the lyrics.
Jay helped me with the rest of the song and it was a great club that's like a legendary story it's like you get magical stuff i mean yeah legendary through you i mean through you and not from you yeah it's epic epic amazing i have no idea i mean you and also that sorry before you ask your next question that first album that i produced again this was a little before your time otherwise you would have played on it for sure but i mean 1978 i got all
the cats i got harvey mason i got jeff pacaro i got david hungate i got dave all the cats wow and i mistakenly had not learned enough about producing records contrary to what i was saying about all i thought i had learned while watching the producers but i thought that getting great tracks was making a great record and of course it's not those that jp morgan album is full of great tracks but the songs weren't that good and without great songs you fail so it
was a very important lesson to me turd polishing yeah exactly yeah we i mean as session sausages lunch means we did plenty of turd polishing and yeah it's all about the song but but i've seen records too where i remember. You know it it's it's probably marketing and promotion i remember I remember doing this record, you remember Charlie Colello? Sure, arranger. Yeah, so we were doing this record for Bill Medley from the Righteous Brothers, right?
And it was a song and I can't remember who wrote it. Gosh anyway i don't want to misquote it was great song right and so charlie, charlie was saying we recorded the track and the track came out great it was a great song bill sang it great of course and he goes record this record can't miss it can't miss you know he was so confident and but and guess what and we thought yeah this is yeah man this is bona fide hit i mean wow what a great song you know not crickets crickets go figure why you
know so yeah but that's record company machinery and and all that sort of stuff and how they time things and what they chose to promote and it's it's you know i've seen a lot of stuff like that where it's kind of sad where you think yeah this is really great people are going to love this and nothing especially when you apply all the same principles to your work that you did.
For three albums before that and the last three albums were hits and then you try it again it's like it's a stiff you're like god what did i do wrong i did everything the way i've always done it yeah but you were talking david about you know just knowing what the people like so as as a producer and so you're i mean we often talk about that like having your finger on the trigger and, the temperature but it's not really the same as second guessing it's kind of
an idea idea of, of what, what you, what, what is the difference between second-guessing them and just knowing what they like and, and how does pleasing yourself fitting in fit into that? Like there's so many people say, oh, you know, I, I've got to please myself first. And you know, you know what I'm saying? How does that whole soup mix together? You know? Yeah. I saw Rick Rubin say that in an interview just recently that he makes records for himself. I, I, my answer is that I'm not an elitist.
If I was a great jazz musician or a great classical player, I'd be so wrapped up in all that. I might not be able to think like the average person. The reason why I knew that Celine Dion was going to be a big star is when I first saw her in a tent singing in Quebec, when she was like 18, I just looked at her and I went, millions of people are going to love this voice. I just know it. When I saw Bublé bounce out at a wedding, when the shark bites,
you know, this wedding singer, right? It's like, oh my God, the world stopped again. It's like, I know that people, millions of people are going to love this because that slot is available right now. Bobby Darin's dead. Sinatra doesn't make records anymore, blah, blah, blah, on and on and on the list. Bublé could fill all those slots without being and really eat any of them. So the fact that I feel I'm just the average Joe, I really do.
I feel like I'm an average person when it comes to, you know, if I like it, millions of people are going to like it. And of course, I'm wrong a lot too, but. Well, I don't know. I mean, if I had to look at the times you were wrong, it would take me a while to pick. I'd probably be picking until the cows come home. So, but it's an amazing ability to have, you know, where you know, you have that instinct and, you know, So yeah, okay, okay.
I think with Josh Groban though, Vinny, I found him in high school. I think I just willed him to happen. I willed it to happen because the first record, the first album that I made with him, I fantasized in my head that I was making an Andrea Bocelli record because Andrea had gotten to a point where he didn't want to make records like that anymore, after him and I had worked together for quite a few years.
And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to try and find somebody else that sort of sings like Andrea, and I'm going to make the record that Andrea doesn't want to make. And I did, and it worked. But I willed it by going to the record company. He said, you've got to put this record out now. You've got to do it. You've got to do it. You've got to do it. I just believed so hard that he was going to fill a slot.
Lot amazing yeah amazing and and and voila yeah big star yeah the rest is history that's amazing i mean i'm gonna throw a curveball at you and i know this might sound a little gauche but, do you ever ever stop for a moment and kind of just go dig me or are you so in the frame that you can't see the picture. I am probably like, well, I can't imagine that you would ever feel this way because of the way you play. But I feel some days that I've done nothing, that I've accomplished nothing.
And other days I feel like I do exactly that. I stop and I go, all right, I have a legacy. But there's days when I feel like, you know, when I go to a party or something, you sit down and play the piano and play your hits. And I bang out like, you know, eight or nine hits. And then I go, God, is that, is that my life?
I mean, 50 years and that's all I got to show for it. So I don't know if that's that insecurity that you need to be successful or it's human nature or, I mean, I can't imagine there's one second when you ever didn't believe you were the greatest drummer ever. It couldn't be. Well, I don't know about the greatest, but I will say this. I don't know that there is. I I've, I've had many bouts with insecurity myself. myself. But, but, you know, one thing is that when I, when I moved to LA,
you know, it was sort of like all bets were off. I didn't have a plan B. It was like, this is it do or die. And so I, you know, I believed in myself, but I knew that I had enough of a skillset to back it up. So, you know, and I, and of course there's a lot of people that can play now. And there were a lot of people that that can play then, there's always. There's never been a shortage of talent, intellect, or brawn, you know?
So, but still, to make that kind of move, you know, it's a pretty major thing. So yeah, and you know, I too have gone through many insecure moments, but you know, I think, you know, after a while. And it may be easier to say this, you know, later on in your career, but after a while, you just kind of let go and just what, what, come, what, come, what, whatever will happen will happen. Yeah. You know, and, and. But can I ask you, can I ask you who your musical influences were when you were,
you know, when we were talking about me at age 13, 10? Yeah. Were they drummers or were they piano players or were they both? It was, it was, you know, songs and idioms, like, like it was Beatles and Motown pretty much. Actually before that, when I was little, I was listening to pop radio, like, you know, Bobby, Darren and those people and just like reacting to music, but really, you know, when I was a kid, I remember seeing the Beatles and that was it.
Ringo love to this day. I love Ringo. Love you too. Yeah. And, and the Beatles are, are it for me. So, yeah, yeah, there you go. And, and.
Introduced me to it and and one of the first things that i listened to was organ jazz organ groups for some reason it's really kind of big and and and i listened to that and i was listening to small and then big bands yeah because you know buddy rich and mel joe thad lewis or thad jones yeah all that all of them and you know i even went to some some these camps clinic camps where uh those those bands were and then in the personnel were giving clinics and so all of them Stan Kenton,
Maynard Ferguson, you know, everybody, and so, and Buddy, and then I found out about, you know, Miles later, a little later, and it was like Charlie Parker.
So by that time, by the time I'd gone through junior high and high school, you know, I was pretty ensconced in jazz, but I also loved rock and roll, like, I loved Zeppelin, I loved all of it, all of it, every bit bit of it but but really i think the the earliest stuff was the beatles and motown and a lot of r&b and soul music that was on the radio were some of my earliest influences and it just kind of branched out from that so are
you are you pretty jazz literate i think so yeah yeah yeah yeah but why is it thinking about somebody like you why is it that as amazing as you are that you can't play play like John Bonham and you can't, I know you can imitate, you can't really play like him and you can't play like the drummer in church. You know, that's that. Why is that? You know, that's, that's one of those. You can get close, but you can't actually do it the way they do it. It's just their personalities.
I think, I think here's the thing though. I think that nowadays. You know, and I'm going out on a limb saying this because I've been saying this, I've said this before, but things are a little bit more homogenous. And sometimes it's harder for me to tell people apart. Whereas back then I can tell everybody apart and I don't, and I can't, that's one of the big mysteries to me is I could hear like, you know, Gad, Jeff, Harvey, Kelner, all of them playing the same simple beat.
Uh-huh the same simple four four beat yeah and i could tell him apart instantly so how do you how does that work you know but but it does and for that matter you you i could imitate we can imitate each other but it's just people's personalities come out so strong and and you know when bottom you know when he passed away i had so much respect that zeppelin said this is it no more because he was such an integral part you know it's like whereas now
it's it's a little more corporate it's like oh you know so and so died get somebody and you know as long as we got the front man we're good you know and we got sponsors so whatever yeah it kind of feels that way to me now and but but that's a great question you know and in the same i mean i did it's not a question it's just it's a fact you know it's just like i can't play like david page i can imitate I can't play like them.
Yeah, we just all have our own. That's the beauty of our own voices, you know? I mean, we've all been imitating and trying to imitate other people, and I think that's good. Like, I've tried to imitate all these people, and I learned from it. And somehow, you can integrate the best parts. You integrate what you love about them without sounding like them. And I could say, well, here's what I got from such and such.
Here's what I got from such and such and this guy. And that guy, like Harvey, for example, I always thought that he had an amazing nuanced hi-hat.
Touch and the way he integrated the hi-hat same for gadsen and you know just focusing on that one element alone you know and then what about jeff we should give him a little uh he had the most amazing time feel all across the board and that's another mystery you know it's like it's just to me that's their spirit coming out and his heart was was as big as la you know i mean I mean, he had the biggest heart and it, and it showed in his playing as it was just,
I mean, there will never be another like him. You know, to me. You never got to see the stuff that I got to see either from playing on, I probably hundreds of sessions with him where he, he just do two takes that he'd walk. Literally. He would walk. Wow. Including JP Morgan album. No kidding. Just walk. Because he knew he got it. It's like, we're done.
We're done. on and right on but you work for the producer you're not the producer you're the drummer i know, i don't know but you know what maybe he thought he was showing them something because he knew who knows you know but but you know if you were producing then okay maybe you would think wait hang on jeff you know where you going you know yeah it must have been hilarious or infuriating i don't know which one a little bit of both a little bit both but it kept you on your toes
yeah yeah yeah that's hilarious man yeah i mean wow i mean i was gonna ask you something now i just i got off track because i was talking about myself but well i'd like to pull you back and, forth you know a little bit so much you know that i can i mean you're talking about oh i sat down and.
At the piano and i thought you know i played my eight or nine hits is this is this all i got, no you just had a memory lapse i mean it's vast the the bar that you did is so vast that but it's you know i'm not included in a lot of conversations uh when they talk about the great record producers you know i mean i you know there's just so many like george martin and you know i find that hard Hard to believe. Well, I do. That's just my insecurities.
I think so. You know, you're Mount Rushmore, definitely. I've taken a new challenge on, which I don't know if you and I talked about when we worked together recently, but I wrote a Broadway musical. Oh, I didn't know this. It's called Boop, Betty Boop, and it's going to open on Broadway in 2025, so in a year. Great. Great experience. And we had a great run in Chicago, learned a lot.
We're tweaking we're writing a couple of new songs and it's been an amazing process a crappy process as well because like i told you making records is a dictatorship i mean it's not a democracy but a little freudian slip but but do it by the way play yeah you're the man at the totem pole and you're the composer so i mean the director has he's in charge so it was a little bit of a an adjustment for me but yeah it's it's been a great experience for me and it's called boop you you
said boop boop yeah a betty boop yeah amazing so speaking of which you know the director of had you ever you i mean st elmo's fire but but did you ever consider pursuing more movie soundtracks or was that something that just was kind of you know ancillary or incidental to you.
I did pursue it for a bit you know st elmo's fire the that was the first movie i scored and i I remember clearly I'd never done it before, so I had no clue what I was doing, but I came, I come up with a little, uh, and I realized that it could work slow and fast and medium. And I thought, I don't know if that's a good thing or not. Can I use that more than once in the movie?
So I called Tom Scott, who I love, who was so nice to me when I first moved to LA out of people that were not nice, but he was so great not knowing anything about me. And he said, man, if you found a melody that works throughout the movie, you're way ahead of the game. And he was right. So that movie did well. And the album sold a couple of million and had the hit songs from it and including my own instrumental hit and the movie was hit.
Then I did a movie called Secret of My Success. I thought, hey, this is pretty easy. And it was okay, but it wasn't great. Then I did about three movies that were truly not great. And that's when when I realized that I would rather write songs for movies than score them for two reasons. One, I wasn't that good at scoring. I got lucky with Sandalwood Fire. But two, and more importantly.
People that write songs for a movie get a lot more credit than people that score movies, for the most part, unless you're Hans Zimmer or John Williams. And so writing a song for a movie, you get a bigger bang for your buck. So I've written a lot of songs for movies, but the scoring stopped. Very, very, very, wow. Okay. Yeah. Efficient, right? Yeah. I was just about to say that again, the efficient pow. And so how did you cultivate your business sensibilities about that sort of
thing? I mean, because, you know, when you just come into that and you're into that world, there's a lot to learn. For me, as a sideman, I didn't have to think about publishing contracts and, you know, all that sort of, it gets kind of hairy, you know. And, you know, or is that something that you just found trusted people that you could work with that you could trust that did all that for you?
Yeah, I would admit to you that for a lot of my life, I enjoyed hanging out with successful people that weren't in the music business more than successful people that were in the music business. I found them more stimulating to me because I already sort of had the music thing covered. So I'm not really going to learn anything from another piano player. I could maybe learn something.
So I always was more stimulated by sitting with somebody like Bill Gates or something like that if I had the chance than another piano player or a guitar player. And I regret it now a little bit because... When I was at dinner with Jay Graydon and Steve Lukather the other night, and I realized that they had kept up their friendship for all these years, and I was like an outsider at the dinner, because I hadn't kept up my friendship with them, even though I was close to them in the 80s.
And I was a little bit disappointed in myself that I hadn't spent more time with the people that I really grew up with, you know? But, you know, having said that, it is what it is now. Yeah. And you know what? But, I mean, if you're reconnecting, it's a good thing. And sometimes a lot of great friendships are like, you just pick up right where you left off, you know? And Steve, look at their gut. I mean, I came across him when he was 17, and he was just, as you know, a beast.
And he did, we wrote Talk to You Later for the Tubes. We wrote She's a Beauty for the Tubes. I love that record.
Yeah, and he played a lot of that record. He played the solo on Hard to Say I'm Sorry, which was a number one record for chicago he played this solo by alice cooper top 10 single he i mean he was a big big help to me i mean he was a somebody would just come in and like a and on a tear and i assume well that yeah you know yeah so so i mean you it must have been a kick working with the tubes it had to it was great and and you probably
know those guys or do you do you know fee and i don't know them but i i met them once on a gig that that i was on with them yeah Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, I've never been that great with bands, although I've had a lot of success with bands like Chicago and Earth, Wind and Fire and the Tubes. But you know, every band has its weak and strong players. And again, efficiency is like, I don't want to sit here for four hours when you can't play the part. I'm just going to get somebody that can.
And that of course is annoying to a band. And so half the Tubes loved me and half of them hated me. And the same with Chicago. But again, the results are the results. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, I understand. I know why Chicago was pissed off. I get it because I changed their sound. They were at an all-time low when I came along. And Peter and I, Peter Satir, we locked well. We wrote all the songs. I played bass on everything. I played keyboards on everything.
And it just sort of took over like an arrogant, young, little prick. And it was a dictatorship. And I get why to this day they're pissed off. They like the fact they still have a career with those songs. but I completely understand why they're not really that happy with me. Well...
I don't, I don't, it's a tough thing to say. Yeah. Because it's efficiency, but then you got those songs and you know, the rest is history and I, I'm not, I'm not going to touch that one, but I'll just, I'll accept, I'll accept what you're saying with grace. Thank you. Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I hear you loud and clear, you know, but, but yeah, I, it's bands boy.
Yeah. That's a, that's a weird one. I mean, I've, I've actually, I've ghosted on stuff and had to come in and, oh man, it's just, it's. And then you meet the drummer, like, like, hey, I know my record. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of heart-wrenching and, but we, you know, we've all been replaced and replaced other people. Sure. What? Yeah. I mean, Robbie Buchanan used to love to tell me that he replaced my piano part on the intro of Just Once for James Ingram.
What? what i always said that was me i made it oh no i did that man. So funny hey you know i'm gonna throw you a curveball here i mean this is i know a cliche question like what would you tell a young musician now but seriously in this day and age with the way things have changed so much you know i mean, if somebody came up to you and said mr foster i i want to be a musician musician, what do you give me as advice? What should I do? Well, if you ever said, I want to be a musician, how can I be?
I'd tell him you'll never will be if he asked that question. But I know what you're saying is like, what can I do to get into the biz or whatever? It's probably the same advice you would give is that knowledge is power. And if you're going from the bedroom to the stage with your computer, it's fine and it can work. Again, Again, because to be a great record producer, as I said, you only have to have a great love of music, in my opinion, and think like the common man.
So that's why these producers, young producers come along and they get a five-year bite at the apple without really playing anything. And they're just all about their computer and sounds and, you know, and it works and it's great. Imagine how much more fulfilled they'd be if they could actually play piano or play guitar or have a working knowledge of every instrument and really like hone out those skills.
That for sure is missing these days, which is why music, you know, top 40 is maybe a little less evolved than it was 20 or 30 years ago. But I'm not that guy also that, and I'm riffing now, but I'm not that guy that hates the music business. I think the music business is great. If you talk to, you know, Beyonce or Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran or Drake, Bruno Mars, they think the music business is just perfect. They're just really happy with it. Yeah.
Of course. But they're in the top 1%, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, what about a kid that goes, well, like, you know, how am I going to, really? Really, you know, for anybody else, it's like, it's probably about marketing and just having some kind of Ross talent that, or developed talent that will be able to withstand the marketing hype. But, but other than that, it's like, well, would you sell merchandise? Let's see if I could, if I tour, okay, I can make money touring.
But what about people who don't want to tour? You know, they become DJs. Okay. It almost seems like it's so intangible now with all this streaming and people not getting money directly from streaming or getting very little that there just has to be these multiple income streams just in order to – that maybe 20 years ago, nobody would have thought about doing. It's like I just jump to buy a record and I get paid.
You know it's a strange time but it's a you know the only thing that the only thing that is constant is change yeah it's constant and and we've seen it our whole lives and, You know, we're still surviving. Yeah, there you go. And you know, on, on that note, you know, your, your two-year-old son, Rennie is a phenomenon. And for those of you who haven't seen him, you're going to see him soon. Cause I've never seen a two-year-old like this in my life. It's just unbelievable.
I mean, we're talking about, forget about just playing in time. I mean, he's got a groove and then when he plays fills, he's not just going to do, do, do, do, do, do, do he'll play the syncopation. Yeah, I got, got that. Don't go, go, go, go, you know, just, he, he thinks of that. So his sense of, of all of that, the space and it's, it's, it's amazing. It's astounding. I, I said, by the time he's five, he's, he's gonna take over the world, you know?
Well, but interestingly, and, and you're right, cuz the thing that impresses me most, most about that particular video is the thought process. It's not the fact that he's playing the group. That's all great. All that, but the fact that he's sort of seeing the end of the song. Yeah.
Starts it and and the way he's he's he understands the job of a drummer yes yes the bigger picture and the role and the music and integrating himself into the music all of that that's those are things that oftentimes don't come two years later a lot of people never cultivate because funny you know you know clive davis has his well grammy pre-grammy party which is a big for your viewers that maybe don't know it's it's a it's the night before the grammys but it's
like like everybody that's nominated goes, it's a, you know, you turn to your left and there's Rihanna and you turn to your right, there's Beyonce and you look straight ahead and it's Joni, it's like a, just a, a stargazing night, right? Yeah. I've Davis has reached out to me and in all seriousness, he said, well, I'll read it to you. Hang on. If I may, this, this just really, really cracked me up. Yeah. Hi, David. I hope this finds you well. I would like for Rennie to perform a
duet with Sheely E at my party. Can you make this happen? Oh, that's... Oh, definitely. Oh, God. That is so good. That's so good. Isn't that funny? I mean, I'm not going to let that happen because for many reasons, but also because he's too underpredictable. In fact, he hasn't played that consistently since that video. And that video was a month and a half ago. He now, when he plays, he tries to play the melody to songs instead of playing the groove and I don't understand what that is.
Maybe he'll be a pianist or something else. Yeah, maybe. I get him to play Santa Baby because I've taught him how to go and he'll start out with the swing groove and then he'll go. And he starts playing the melody on the drums instead of the groove. I don't know if that's progress or regress. I think it's pretty cool.
It's not a groove though. i don't know yeah he's he's getting going into his avant-garde thing now he's getting melodic, yeah i think it's great i mean he's too you know like it's insane i i know yeah it's just really exciting i mean you've got to be over the moon it's like you know that that's a whole thing this the nature versus nurture and apple doesn't fall far from the tree and i mean i think that at the the end of the day you know
look i mean we can be whatever we want but i'm not going to be michael jordan like i mean there's got to be a limit on that but at the same time you know it's like people will say well you know you you if you work hard enough at it yes but you can't demean, the the the role of raw talent in my opinion it's like no lion lions don't give birth to fish there you go there you go there you go and his last name is foster so there you go. You know, it's fun. Yeah, it's great for me.
Yeah. I wish it was piano so I could teach him. I can't teach him anything on the drums. He's learned it all by just watching JR, who, you know, on the road. Yeah. He Neil Peart. He watches Neil Peart videos. I've shown him your video of you're on the list to playing the buddy rich thing. It's you. And is it Weckl? And Steve Gadd. Yeah. I've shown him that video a few times and he's kind of Neil Peart is his guy. That's his guy. Great. Great. Great.
Awesome. That's great, man. Well, I mean, you know, we can go on and on. I just want to, David, I want to thank you for your time and, and, and just, you know, for your camaraderie and your friendship over the years and your support. And just, I'm honored to call you friend as well. And my wife said to me, by the way, how's Miriam? Is she good? She's doing well. Thank you. You know, thank you for asking. She says a big hello.
And I was saying that my wife said to me today, she said, gosh, you really, you really want to do this you just had surgery and you're not feeling that good i said you know i'm honored and i'd do anything for vinnie and i really mean that man i'm so happy to be on your show and uh i hope you'll have me back again oh i love it david and you know whatever i can do for you i'm at your service and please tell tell katherine
thank you for for you to me you know i will you bloody yes thanks man yeah and thank everybody thank you so much for listening and thank you for the great david foster for for this being on this episode and thanks for listening stay tuned for the next. Music.