Samantha Vidler, Managing Partner QLD, PWC

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Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.

Happy people create happy businesses.

True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on OW about our fourth flight and everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, I can do it.

Now.

We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am thrilled to be joined by Managing partner at PwC Queensland, Samantha Vidler.

Born in Victoria, Victoria?

Yeah, okay, all right, so tell me a bit about those early days.

Always an outdoorsy family. We lived on sort of acreage in Victoria, which is cool, and had a range of different animals from time to time, very wide and diverse range. But grew up really loving the outdoor life, the beach and also grew up water skiing at Lake Yielden and that was pretty cool. Siblings siblings won older sisters.

Yeah. Actually she's still in Victoria.

Yeah right. And so when you think about, like who was your biggest influencer role model growing up.

I think it was really just around family.

Had parents that gave us an opportunity to do lots of different things. Sink or swim, have a crack, I have a go, have a go as one of my favorite sayings or values, And so I think it was really that make the most of your opportunities. You know, when you're given really good opportunities to have good education and grow up in a pretty stable household, you learn to value that.

Yeah yeah, okay, And I did read online that you were the first of your family to tend university.

Is in their generation and that generation.

Yeah right. So the career that moved into accounting, I'm assuming was this like your dream growing up as a little girl.

I wanted to be a vet.

Youvet.

I wasn't very good at biology. Going into accounting was just a kind of fell into it from school. The reason I've been with the firm for so long is because they hired me straight out of school, which was a little bit unique at the time in terms of, you know, starting so young and not really knowing what I was getting myself in for. I had an accounting teacher that said, you're going okay at accounting? Have you thought about going for this trainee ship? And I had no idea who the firm was, what.

It was all about. But he landed there and here I am, now.

Okay, So you became if I'm correct, you became a partner.

At thirty, a little bit older than that early.

Yeah, yeah, which is pretty bold by anyone's standards. So obviously, you know my program is brave. My leadership programs we talk about bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetics. We kind of like move around those topics. But when I think of bold being so young, where did imposter syndrome come into sort of that? Like, I guess you're in a playing field with you know, some big people, some big personalities.

I think, like anybody starting out, I'd like to think we're all pretty humble in terms of you don't know what you don't know, and you're learning every single day. And certainly back in those days, I think one of the first partners I met, I called him mister Wilson because you always used mister or there weren't a lot of female partners at that time to look too. So I think when you talk about imposter syndrome, certainly had it then, still have it today in certain regards.

I think if you ever get comfortable, you probably need to move on and look through another challenge.

Yeah, that's a nice reframing that. I think a lot of people avoid the idea like don't want to have impositi syndrome, But maybe actually it's more about pushing you to want to be better.

Yeah.

I think you learned to live with it, and I don't think it ever goes away. Certainly for me, I don't feel like it's ever gone away. There's still times you think, what am I doing here? And do I belong here? And am I worthy of being in amongst the people that you're meeting?

How do you reset yourself from that? How you let it not get on top of you?

Oh that's a gee whiz.

I think you take those small little moments of the pad on the back, or the encouragement that others might give you, or the end of the day you perk yourself up and go, no, no, I'm here. I've got to face into this one and give it a red hot Go.

Are you good at self compassion?

Oh? Probably not.

I don't think I've met anyone yet, because it is a question.

I think we're terrible at it as human beings, Like we're really good at giving that to others, we really find it difficult to have that narrative to us. Absolutely, so, I guess how do you then, And particularly thinking about your early career, how did you back yourself when stakes were high, like you had to go in and you know, present something or challenge something when you are young and a female.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that came from the upbringing of you've just got to have a go and you've got to put your best foot forward. If a job's worth doing, you do it to the best of your ability. And I always think back to that and go, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to give it my all and if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, I'm not a brain surgeon.

No one's going to die.

I've made a few mistakes over my time, and you dust yourself off and get back up.

But that sort of gret to Nash mindsetting. Okay, Look, when it comes to bold, bold for me is a thing I must do right. So it's leaning into the uncomfortable, having those feelings come up. When you're like, oh, it doesn't feel good, but there's the thing I must do. Then I got to lean into it. So how do you keep pushing yourself to find the limits of your uncomfortable When you beat an organization for thirty years and you know this business so well.

Oh, I think the organization in itself, the firm, always gives you different opportunities, and so you never get comfortable. You're always doing something different. There's always something new to learn. The industry is always changing, the demands from our clients are always changing. The world is changing. So at a point in time, I think I know the organization inside and out after thirty years, But the organization doesn't stand still, and so neither do you.

In your own way, you have to keep learning and keep keeping up.

What about personally, do you see set yourself personal goals to keep not really.

I'm not a massive goal set. People talk about, oh, what's your five.

Year plan or what's your long term goals? That's just not who I am.

I live in the moment, good honesty, Like I don't think I was of for everybody. Yeah sometimes, but.

Maybe twelve months out that's as much as I could. Probably.

You know, what min uncomfortable is going to networking events, which is where I met you.

Like it, won't.

I do not like going.

That is I've had to learn to get come.

I reckon so much more of it. Like many of us are all standing there deeply controvert at heart. Yeah, I mean I'm not, but I just don't like those things. I don't know why. Then it might make you feel so uncomfortable, but I continue to do it because I think we're doing something uncomfortable.

Probably are last week, So I'm doing something uncomfortable right now.

You are doing this as your first podcaus I love that. Yeah, okay, if we look at your thirty years, so it gets the big fundamental questions, well, what kept you here? What's kept you here? And what's changed dramatically over that time that's kept you challenge and interested?

Yep, I've had the privilege of working in different offices. So started in Melbourne, spent a few years in Canberra, spent a couple of years in Townsville and now Brisbane. So I guess in a way, each move was like starting a new job in a way. So there were challenges around a new market, new clients, new people, get to know within the firm, all of those sorts of things. So I guess where they talk about people have different jobs across their careers, it sort of feels like I've

So that's kept me engaged. Fundamentally.

I have a love of learning, so my job requires me to keep learning and keep providing advice to clients. So I'm learning as much as everybody else is. So and my clients just love my clients.

You must built some beautiful relationships over this period. They must be like family, some of them. I mean, you've seen people.

Feels like a lot of them feel like family, and we want to sort of start talking about the royal we and we've done this and we've done that, and you go hang on a minute.

Yeah, which obviously to me, like relationships are just the critical part of a great organization and culture. But how does trust it with you? Like, how does trust play out with you?

Trust is a two way street, so you get a good feel for people early on, you do have to build that trust over time, that really true trusts, that really deep seated. Your client trusts you, and you trust your client, You trust your coworkers and all that.

Sort of stuff. So it is something to be earned over time.

I think do you find that showing vulnerability is that harder to do as you get more senior in the organization.

I think for some people it is. I'm a pretty open book. What you see is what you get type thing with most people. So I think we're all human, right, So I'm going to make mistakes like the next person. I'm going to learn something new like the next person. In a professional sense, I just keep thinking back to I was a young seventeen year old that knew nothing and started out and somebody took a punt on me and invested in me, and that's what you do in return.

Totally so important. I mean, just when you said seventeen then I laughed myself because I'm like, I think I was on a Kentiquy tour about then. I was like, so do you look back now? Do you feel like look essentially a later question I have, but I have to ask it now. A lot of people I talk to, particularly women and successful high profile roles, say to me, you can't have it or there's always a price you pay for the success that they've had.

Do you feel that, Oh, No, I don't. Life's all about choices, and you make the different choices at different times in your life. You know, I was finishing school and starting a job. All of my friends were going to schoolies on the Gold Coast and I wasn't because I was starting a job.

Do I regret that? Not?

Really, that was a choice we made at the time, and that was what was right at the time. And I think life's full of different compromises. You just make the choice for yourself and your family.

And your career and all of those different aspects of your life as it presents itself.

Well, obviously you're mum too. I believe to have two daughter daughters.

Yeah, yeah, they.

Would have been you know, babies doing the sort of growth parts of your case.

Yeah, as well as all that challenging oh at different times. Yeah, absolutely. I reflect on what life is like today for working parents versus what life was like when we had our children. There was no work from home, no availability. There wasn't that flexibility to come and go. You know, we're a very flexible workplace and you don't have to be in by eight thirty, you don't have to leave five or whatever, so you can come and go and be very flexible.

Trouble.

No, I agree. I think there's definitely a huge improvement in organizations. Maybe yeah, still some not there. So it's great to hear that. So PwC is definitely leading the way there. So when you started, culture wise, what kind of leadership was modeled and rewarded back then, we're going back thirty years, Like, looking at that.

It was definitely a work hard, play hard culture and leadership.

It was still very male dominated. That's just a fact.

I think that just brings with it a different style of leadership to what you probably see today where we've got more diverse workforces and sort of more diverse people in leadership roles. It was definitely your work hard.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I know this myself back when I was in a corporate role. Sometimes to have a voice at the table, I feel like I had to adopt more maskul style in order to be heard. And I know I don't do that now, but I used to do that. Yeah, it felt like that was the only way forward given your tenure there. And do you feel like that's something you had to do as well?

At times?

I think at times you probably had to learn to be a louder voice in the room, although I once had somebody say to me, you don't have to be the loudest person in the room. You just have to make sure that what you're contributing is valuable. So that helps to change that dial of do you have to be the loudest person or do you just have to mean what you say, say what you're going to do, and do exactly that and lead by your actions more so?

Okay, so when your confidence does take your head, how do you reset? Do you have rich al things that you do.

Probably go and do a bit of exercise and just kind of get that tension out of the system. Got a great supportive family that pump you up. I've got some great colleagues and peers that help pump you up and give you that pat on the back that says it'll be okay, yeah, be okay.

Yeah.

It's definitely that network, isn't it that you've got around you? When we talk about authenticity, For me, authenticity my description is that the opportunity for connection exceeds the fear of rejection. Do you have a struggle being completely authentic, like are there times where the fear of being rejected for saying what you want to say, you think, overrides you really saying what you want.

I think I've gotten better at that as a you get.

Older and you grow in your career.

For a period there, you're always, or it was always a little bit hesitant to.

Really speak out or speak up those sorts of things for that fear of somebody might not like me or agree with me. But I think as you learn to deal with those scenarios, you get better at it. I really now feel if I'm not speaking my mind or if I'm not sharing my views, people might not agree with them, and I'm totally fine with that. But if I don't contribute something that is meaningful to me, I don't know whether it might be meaningful to other people.

So sometimes that responsibility is very well.

Yeah, age, yes, totally agree like I think that naturally helps right and experience. I'd love to feel like we could help people younger to be able to get their place quicker. Yeah, can spend your twenties and your thirties not saying what you want to say at the table bit embarrassed, not wanting to be you know, and being

And as soon as.

Someone's the confience to say that doesn'tually make sense to make can you explain? And if it's like relief, But it's just that constant wanting to prove yourself.

And you know, I think we often hear from people that say, just be more confident. Yeah, And that's a really easy thing for somebody else to say, but it's a really hard thing for the person who's not feeling confident to be confident. And so, well, how do I be more confident? And that's where I think others have got a lot to offer those people to say, I believe in you, You've got this. I know you understand whatever it is. I know you've got some.

Great ideas about this.

Please share them, you know, and just encourag each people rather than saying be more confident. That's easier said than done.

I completely agree. I think that the authenticity will breed when you're being encouraged by others to be it. I don't think we encourage people enough to be you know, so I think that's great, great tip. So if I asked ten random people at PwC about your leadership style, what would you hope they would say to me about you?

I would hope that they would say, lead with care, you get what you seek, pretty open book, happy to and comfortable to challenge when something really doesn't sit right with my values or the firms values, to call that out. And somebody who is there for others.

Yeah, okay, it's quite empathetic hearing kind of if they had to sort of say, whats her growth theory is still because we all have it? Yeah, yeah, what's those areas of leadership? They like, Ah, that's probably my thing.

Maybe be more strategic and have those longer term go.

I doubt that. Do you think people find you easy to get to know.

I think some people do, some people don't. It's interesting, yeah, yeah, but I think you get that with everybody. You connect with some and you don't connect with others necessarily. I'm pretty happy, go lucky kind of person, always see the positive side, ever, the optimist. I think most people would say I'm easy to get to know.

Yeah, okay. I also think ego is a healthy part of being a leader, right. I don't know a good leader at the top who doesn't have a dose of ego in there. But also, keeping in checks really important. So how do you keep your ego in check in the sense of, you know, you've got promoted very young, you're in a very senior role, Like, how do you keep that in check and stay grounded as your career keeps rising.

Your children are pretty good for that.

I still feel like it's a massive privilege of what I get to do every day. So to me, I don't think I've got a huge ego. I certainly feel proud about things that we've achieved as a firm and things that our clients achieve, and personally you achieve, But I'm not somebody who really try and shout that from the rooftops or feel like I'm the most important.

Actually, I remember standing at an event with you. We didn't really know to that well then and another couple of people mingle over and have a chat and I knew what your role was and who you were, but the guy who asked and you just said that you were the company you worked for. You didn't even mention your title. Yeah, so I think that's actually a beautiful example, like you could have and had them probably trying to win some business or something, and maybe you're avoiding that.

Yeah, that's just true. I am.

I mean, you're a very measured person. I can see that you say the truth and just speak sort of what's in your mind. But look, we all make mistakes. Was there any moment in your career you've had to course correct when you realize you weren't showing up in alignment with your values.

There's Certainly, moments where you get so caught up in the juggernaut of things are really busy, and there's lots of competing demands, and certainly you tend to get distracted by the person who yells the loudest, and certainly that makes you go in a certain direction where you otherwise would like to be more things to more people.

But I think that's probably I think it's pretty ill man.

Yeah, when you're under time pressure, you mean sort.

Of yeah, yeah, I mean there's lots of different things that get thrown at you, and you're either kind of a work pressure or home pressure or whatever it might be. And I think it's really hard to stay measured, which is what I like to do a lot of the time.

That's when you make mistakes.

Is it easy if you'd met when you've made a.

Mistake easier now Earlier in your career, you go, oh, it's like it's going to be career ending, or it's going to be like it's just the most dramatic thing in your life. And then you get through it and

Is that easy to do In an organization that's so successful and you know, not for its high performance and delivering to absolutely how does that play out?

It's been a real journey over the years. I think rewind back years ago, it was nobody wanted to make a mistake. It was fear of God in your type. These days, as a firm, we've.

Come a really long way.

And certainly as a society, I think we've come a really long way in being vulnerable and saying yep, we've made a mistake. But the best way you can deal with that is by rectifying it, admitting it, moving on going.

How do we make this right.

I've seen it all right, And a lot of organizations were like that, the more of a command control kind of style, and we're aught to the right thing.

That's free.

Typical, you're a large organization with that really strong reputation. What have you seen? What are the things that you've specifically seen that the company did to make that step change, because you could have not it could have you know, said no, we're not going to that past. Yeah, particular leaders, particular behaviors, voices.

Certainly, our culture has changed over the last few years and really focused on great governance, great processes, procedures, those sorts of things that you wrap around everyone to make sure that everybody understands what our accountability and responsibilities are to both each other, the firm, our clients, those sorts

I read a stat the other day eighty seven percent of people expect their leaders to provide them with personal development support and you'll be able to deal with their problems that they're bringing from home as well. Right, Which is really interesting because a long time ago, when I sort of talked about this topic, people like, not my problem, it's not the company's problem, right, But now it kind of has become it because we've got this flexible hybrid.

The biggest challenges are certainly making sure that we understand our team's home and work life, because they are such a blend these days. Helping people navigate through different stages in their lives from starting their careers.

Maybe it's having.

Relationships, marriage, children, whatever that might look like for each of our people, and just really bridging that gap between You spend a lot of time working with each other, and sometimes you spend more time working with people than they do spend with their families or with their loved ones outside of work or their hobbies or whatever it might be. So it's really the big challenge is helping people find the right balance of what works for them.

Oh that's tricky, Yeah it is.

Yeah, you're right.

I think probably having those conversations earlier, you know what matters to people absolutely, Like I remember old interview processes. No one ever asked you, like, what was you know?

Nobody asked you what you did outside of them.

No, it wasn't really well of it really was that versus tailoring your working life a bit more to it works to people. I think is an interesting one. Wanted to ask you about conflict because you don't strike me as a person who is in a high conflict kind of character, but I could be wrong. How do you handle things when people don't see things the same way as you or don't care as much as you do.

When people don't care as much as I do, I do struggle with that. You just have to peg yourself back a little bit and just understand where other people are coming from and that goes the same when people don't agree with what I might want to do or I believe the right answer is, you just have to unpack it and see all sides. Yeah, and then make

Yeah.

Yeah.

What about with difficult conversations, because I find that's the other one that does no matter how long you're in your career, for you know, having that conversation about performance or letting somebody go yeah, still as uncomfortable as it was.

Oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I think because for me it's all about the person and if there's a performance issue, sure, some things are black and white, and other things they're emotive.

That makes it really.

Difficult when you're talk talking about people and humans and decisions that might or outcomes that might really affect a person and their families or their way of life.

That sort of stuff.

So what I try to do is make sure we're being fair and reasonable coming into all of those conversations from place of care.

So when we talk about empathy, how do you create connection with the people that work for you, because obviously, the more thing you get, I'm imagining you're distanced more and more, like, how do you say, connected to their real life and what's going on and so forth.

I have this scene where a lot to think that I can converse somewhat with some of our young staff who has the same age.

As my children. Oh, okay, technic.

So that's the lingo I get at home can be translated to the lingo at work. It's about just getting to know the people.

Do you have time for that though? In your job?

Oh, you make time. You have to.

We're a people business, and whether that's your clients or your team internally, you've definitely got to make time. It is hard because there's only a certain amount of hours in the day and everyone's got different roles and responsibilities and things they've got to execute on. But trying to make the time to connect with each person I think is really important. And then even if you don't one on one connect, just having that awareness of understanding what's going on through other people.

Yeah, and when you notice someone struggling, how do you show up for them?

If it's something that I can help them with personally, then I will always endeavor to do so. If it's something somebody else is helping them with, then it's just being there for support and asking people what's going on for you?

What can we do? I think we're really good at responding to making sure people have the tools and resources around them and the support around them that if there's something that they want to improve on or want to get better at, that we can help support with that.

What about when you're struggling.

I've got a great family that helped support and kind of pick you up when you're having a bad moment. But I've also got great people peer wise at work. I think in our environment, nobody wants to see anybody not having a positive experience, so we're very attuned to that.

I feel like the last few years of consulting, I've noticed a lot more companies having those really honest conversations at the table. I think it was one organization I went to where they would go around and get everyone to sort of number where they're at in terms of stress. Then what do I need from people in this room right now?

Yeap?

And sometimes that's like I just need everyone to be a patient with me because I'm going through something bigger at home, and is that kind of Oh?

Absolutely, I think we would spend as much time internally supporting our teams and our people, talking about what support our teams and people need, like as we do servicing clients. It's a really big part of what we do all throughout the year, regular check ins, those sorts of things.

It's huge.

Let's go back to seventeen year old Samantha just now, I sat on schoolies, but you've decided on this, that's sad. What's the key lessons you've learned over thirty years spanning this career. Yeah, what would you tell her now?

I'd probably say not to be as hesitant and not to sort of second guess yourself throughout taking those extra opportunities or jumping.

Right into things.

I think if I look back, there were times you go, oh, I don't know whether I should do that, or am I right for that role or those types of things, And so for me it would be be more rest So, yeah, be a bit more of a risk taker.

Okay, So then the next twenty years, theam what's a goal out there? Now? You don't do goals. I don't do goals, but is there a risk that you'd like to take that you sort of go.

I think it'll be whatever the next opportunity is or wherever that presents itself, just going for it right, not overthinking it, really having a crack.

I always like to finish on not always this question, but I've used it a few times. So I heard this from this harvest psychologist, and I thought it was such a great question to ask leaders. So, Sam, why should anyone be led by you?

Gosh?

Okay, I don't see myself as the leader. What I see is I create an environment where people can be at their best and we can do great things. So it's not necessarily for me why people should be led by me, but why people can work with me to make sure that we're bringing the best out in each other, and we're bringing the best to our clients, and we're bringing the best.

To our communities. Oh, I love that. I like now I think about it.

Yeah, very humpable. Well, thank you. It's been amazing having you on here. I really enjoyed our conversation, So thank you, Thank you.