- So I'm holding in my hand a Domain Neutron 52x5 Robusto Extra. I'm sitting with Daniel, Daniel Lance. Daniel, you're launching a new cigar? - Sure am, yeah. Domain Cigars has been in progress now for almost five years, in the world of smoke. Started out, Esteban Disla, my business partner, who was, you know, a former master blender for more than 30 different companies. He was instrumental in the starting of Latin America Cigars. He's been growing tobacco since he was 11 years old.
You know, incredible background that this guy has. - Sounds like a good partner to have. - Oh, absolutely, absolutely (laughing). I think he's forgotten more about tobacco than I know, certainly (laughing). But that said, yeah, we've been working on this project for quite a long time, keeping it pretty tight-lipped. The last two years, we started the factory, whenever he parted ways with his former business partner.
He's always had the vision of creating a fully vertically-integrated cigar company out of the gate. Our own tobacco, we put that in pilons. We own our own pilon facility in Brigadeiro, which is in Condega, Estelí, Nicaragua. And in doing so, we actually blend the cigars with our own tobacco. We work with several partners from providing wrapper for the cigars, providing Habano, providing the Mexican San Andrés that you're smoking there, in the form of the Neutron.
That's by Gilberto Oliva from TANICSA, former founder of Oliva Cigar. So really fantastic partners that we've worked with. We've collaborated with more than 100 people in Estelí, Condega, Pueblo Nuevo, where we all have farms, both contract farms, and farms that we own ourselves. So it's a lot to put together, but that really kind of starts us down this journey of what do new brands look like as they come on the market? What does the future of cigar making look like, right?
And that's very much what Domain's sphere of activity, or excellence, right? And that's the name of the company. And you see Domain occasionally as an idea or a concept, flirted with in the cigar industry. But what does it really mean to be a third wave cigar maker? if you, are you familiar with that term from I'm coffee, or anything like that? - I'm not. - I'm so, you know, in the coffee industry they talk about it in waves, and really distinct waves.
And that's what I would like to see elements of in the cigar industry. I've been a cigar smoker for more than 17 years now. I worked for more than 10 years in a retail capacity, while I was out building other businesses. My professional career was in industrial cybersecurity. I started a lot of fantastic, really strong companies in that space.
And really what what I saw was the opportunity for us to start better defining what a cigar maker is doing, and what a cigar maker's approach, or stance towards the industry is. And if we look at how the coffee industry did this, you take an agricultural product, and you wrap a brand around it, well that's how you get Folgers, and Maxwell House.
- Sure. - That was the first way that the coffee industry started to actually wrap a name that meant something around a product that, you know, had a agricultural function before that. You'd buy grain coffee and roast it at your house. So they did that. That was the first wave of coffee. And very much the cigar community was defined by what happened in 1962, the Cuban exodus. - Yeah. - That's what defined a standard set of names, and brands, that were known, or ubiquitous, for making cigars.
And some of those names and brands persist to this day. And then we had a period where we really lost a lot of intelligence. We lost a lot of progression in the making and fabrication of cigars. And in fact, it switched countries entirely. It went from being a domestic United States thing, to being something that took place in Central and South America. And in those regions, several of these companies that I would consider first wave cigar makers, actually had to start and found that brand.
So as you move forward, and again, what is a second wave then, right? And in the coffee industry, it was ubiquitous of supply. It was creating a standard approach, a standard model. And that is the "mermaid company". - Sure. - Which is all over the place. You see Starbucks on every other corner, standard set of drinks, standard menu, and you can walk just about anywhere, and bump into a cafe that's going to have that standard menu, right?
And that was really the second wave of coffee, was creating the cafe experience. So in the 90s, what we had happen in tobacco was we had just an in-rush of people that said, "You, Mr. First Wave cigar maker, "you know everything there is to know about tobacco, "but I know the customers, I know the branding, "I know how people want to see and experience this." And they put together a lot of direction, and commission companies and they're fantastic.
But that defines a lot of this industry today, which is a cigar maker being told, "Do it this way, put this name on it, and it will sell, "and you will collect a commission for it," right? So what the heck is a third wave cigar maker? Whenever we talk about that, that you know, doesn't really jive with a lot of people. Now, a third wave cigar maker to me, in my own opinion, is being able to exact quality control across the entire enterprise.
And for Esteban and I, we wanted to look really far into what a cigar maker could really do, in terms of quality control. How far could we take the experience of quality control, right down from soil, to production, pilon, and fabrication, right to point of service. And that's where Boveda comes in really heavy with us.
And we're really proud to announce that working with Mike Stous and your team, he is been fantastic to work with, we did the first ever integrated branding with Boveda, where we actually worked with your team, to actually build in your logos, your artwork, into our artwork, and into our packaging, so that it felt native, and it felt like it belonged there, and it was built in. And I told Mike one time, I go, "You know, if you guys don't wanna come along "with me on this ride, that's okay.
"That's completely okay. "But I have to keep people "inside of my customer experience. "I have to keep them inside of that." The only reason why, you know, it makes sense that Mario can spit, you know, fireballs, and things of that nature, is because he also jumps 10 feet, and breaks bricks with his head, right? - Right. - We have to keep them inside of how that experience feels, and that's gonna be my textures, and colors, and so on. And there's a lot of trust back and forth.
And that's what I mean whenever I say "a third wave cigar maker," is being able to exact quality control, all the way down to point of service. And there's no other brand that does that quite like Boveda does with their product, there just really isn't. I've looked, there isn't. And I'm an accessories manufacturer. Lujo Concepts is my other company. And I can tell you there's just nothing on the market that quite performs the way that this product does.
So we integrated it into our packaging, at the foot of the cigar. And this actually goes back to Esteban and I's collaboration, where I used to come up to Estelí, I lived in Estelí for a period of time. I live in Managua, Nicaragua, now. But I would come up to Estelí, and I'd buy bundles from Esteban. and there'd always be a Boveda right there at the foot, in the bundle, you know? And I didn't need the box, or anything like that, you know, I'm not going very far, a couple hours away.
And what I noticed was those cigars, to me, always seem to smoke better, and they seem to have a little bit more consistent humidity. And that's because a cigar will actually dry out from foot to cap. And being able to put that barrier as close to its point of service as possible, was really instrumental for us. So we actually redesigned our slide top boxes to include a slot for the Boveda right at the foot, to be able to have that integrated.
And having your actual brand present in my color scheme, you know, in my textures. - And that's a tremendous distinction when you talk about the dynamic of a cigar drying out from foot to head, from the base of the cigar to the cap, it makes perfect sense. - Yeah. - I've never heard it contextualize that like that before. And tell me about the Neutron. This is when I see the label, and it's the Domain Neutron, and this is your maiden voyage for the line, one week old in the marketplace.
- Yeah. - This is excellent opportunity for us to have the conversation. When I see Neutron, I think, "Oh, am I gonna get power hammered in the forehead "by this cigar?" - No, no, no (laughing). That's, you know, that's part of why we, we named it "Neutron." - So it's not a proton. - No, no, it's not a proton. So, neutrons have the ability to kind of rearrange energy around them. And this is a medium body Mexican San Andrés. - It's very flavorful though. - Yeah, it's extraordinarily flavorful.
- I mean, it's got an awesome start to it. - Yeah, yeah. For me, I get a lot of vanilla on the start of it. I would say macadamia, but more green vegetative kind of macadamia, than the salty kind of thing you might buy dry at the grocery store. But I love that cigar. I think it's a masterpiece from Esteban. We went out to dinner, and I was asking Esteban, you know, because he has this incredible portfolio, all these incredible cigars that he's put together over the years.
And I was talking to him about, you know, Sumatra, and different wrappers, before we really had a fairly high grade San Andrés. And people were taking these different wrappers into areas of the flavor wheel that just haven't been broken open, and explored and unlocked since.
And I asked Esteban, I go, "You know, is it possible if we start in soil, "and start growing tobacco "for these, you know, particular distinct characteristics, "could we get back into that area of the flavor wheel again, "where we could maybe even take a San Andrés into a medium zone?" San Andrés is typically is medium/full to full body. - Yeah, that's what my experience has been. - Yeah, and Esteban goes, "You know, I think we can do that today."
I think, you know, he went back through five years now that we've been growing tobacco. We grow 300,000 pounds of tobacco a year now in our filler tobacco operation and Brigadeiro. And we went back through five years of the catalog, and actually found a set of tobaccos that would offset just enough. because normally you get with a medium body, San Andrés kind of a chalk like texture in your mouth. - Right. - It dries out your mouth very bad. - Right.
- And he managed to turn that into this really silky, smooth thing. - That's a good term. "Silky" is right. It's not intimidating at all. It's a welcoming smoke. It's sincerely got some excellent flavor. - Thank you. - This is a proud moment for you. - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. - This is your first launch of a cigar? - Yeah, yeah, I've never, I had, you know, no particular interest in launching a cigar company. I moved to Nicaragua five years ago.
I always tell people I'm the junkie that moved to the poppy field. It makes no sense. And Esteban would laugh at me, and he goes, "People don't do this." You know, when they're big wine drinkers, they go off and move to a vineyard, or something like that. - Right. - I had no real forethought about what it was gonna be like living in Estelí, living in Nicaragua, I really didn't. I turned up, and I knew half the community, due to events like this, like PCA that we're currently at.
And there's so many fantastic companies here, and they contribute so massively to the culture that we have in the cigar community, that I was able to walk into Estelí, and I knew half the city. Right? - Yeah. - And they were welcoming, and they wanted to teach me about tobacco, and they weren't used to someone, you know, coming and showing up, and you know, being willing to say, "Hey, I don't know anything," you know? - Right.
- And that's, that's kind of the joke today is around the factory, you know, all of our rollers are 10+ years that they've been rolling cigars, every one of them. We wanted everyone that we started with to be first right capable. So we wanted all of them to be able to hold that position in any factory that we're walking into, to be first right capable. That's a really unusual thing. But Esteban knows the right people to call on to do that.
And so the the joke is, you know, I'm basically like Steve Carell walking around the factory, and everybody else is so successful, and knows what they're doing. And they're really fantastic people, and they love tobacco. You know, one of our rollers, Sylvia, she's been rolling cigars 38 years, she's been rolling cigars. Incredible experience, incredible background behind her.
And I asked her one time, I go, "Have you ever smoked a cigars?" She goes, "Oh, no, no, no." She loves tobacco, loves cigars, loves tobacco. She's raised her children, you know, working at a rolling table. And she loves just doing that. Her favorite thing to roll, Bermejo, Robusto Extra That's her favorite thing to roll. Just a simple cigar, and she's happy.
You know, we go away for holiday break, we can't stop our employees from coming back to the factory, and they want to come back and have a coffee. You know, they always, they tell their spouse. - It's a central part of their life. - Absolutely.
Even there where they don't have as much of the same cigar culture that we have, there's something about great tobacco that brings together fine men and women that enjoy this experience, enjoy this culture, and it breeds its own unique culture everywhere it goes. And that's, I was talking to a retailer recently, and they were talking about, you know, the recent uptick we've had, since the days of the coof, right? And they said that, you know, this uptick, you know, it's unique.
We don't know where it came from, how long is it gonna last, and so on. I said, "The most important thing "that you need to recognize about what's happened "to the cigar industry recently is, we didn't change." - Right. - We didn't change.
The people that are attracted to what we're doing here, and the conversations that we've had, coming out of barber shops, and coming out of, you know, the speakeasy scene, even way before that, we have a lot of opportunity here to capture the interest of more and more people that are getting interested in cigars. - Right. - And getting interested in the culture, the cultural aspects I think is the most significant part. But I think we're right at the very beginning.
We're right at the very beginning of the cultural significance of the cigar, on the American public. I really think that, I think we're right at the beginning stage, - Not to get all gooey on you, but I would go so far as to say people have begun valuing relationships, valuing life, with a different sentimentality in the last five years, with what we've been through. - Yeah, yeah.
- And if you, a luminary in this industry said to me in a similar interview last year, said, "This is not a cigar, this is a moment in time shared between friends." - Yeah. - Changes everything. - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We like to describe it as as a narrative, you know, in that we don't refer to our cigars in terms of core lines. And Esteban never really cared for that, because he saw too many opportunities for people to slap a band on something that wasn't the original expression.
It wasn't the experience that that customer was looking for anymore, when the tobacco changed. And so we've committed ourselves to, if we can't produce that cigar because we don't have access to that tobacco, or we've shut that down, we're gonna stop featuring that line. So all of our cigars are features, and we think of them as a narrative, and a place in time. Absolutely, I think that's a correct statement.
- Yeah. And as your initial launch, as your first story in the marketplace, I think you're gonna be incredibly well served by this cigar. - You think so? Okay, that's awesome, that's really great. - This is the Domain Cigar Company. Daniel Lance, one of the partners with Esteban? - Esteban Disla. - Okay. So you've got an artistic craftsman. I think that's a safe description. - Artisan, yeah. - Of Esteban.
- Yep. - This is where the cyber-security-expert- cum-accessory-expert, meets craft artist, and this is what's born out of the the relationship. - Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I had never planned to put together a brand because people that make beautiful, delicious cigars are never available.
And when Esteban became available, and you know, I already knew that he was growing tobacco, and that he was interested in pursuing something much bigger, I was shocked that he wanted me to be a part of that internally, and to actually lead the helm of what that looked like from the consumer experience. - Well, it's a testament to the way you show up, and it's wonderful. I hope that your, as far as the innovation, in involving Boveda in the brand from the outset, can't thank you enough for that.
It's a real privilege to be associated with this launch. I think it's gonna be fun to watch the story unfold for Domain, and we'll look forward to being with you every step of the way. - Yeah, absolutely. And your partnership is incredibly important to us. I love the fact that we're your first integrated branding. There's a big commitment to that on our side, of course. And we, I'll give you one example.
I have two more small stories I wanna share with you, because I've had a lot of experience with your product over the years. But you know, we actually had our labels made and we had the first sample batch, we had 200 of each size made.
And we looked at them, and we said "No," we said, "This isn't good enough for Boveda, "it's not good enough for us, "because we're representing both of your companies" and that's the level of commitment we feel you have to make if you're going to take on these types of partnerships, I have to represent you as well as I represent myself, right? And we actually canceled out all those labels, and went out, and created a new printing process to get better clarity. So that's one example.
And I'll tell you, whenever I was a retailer, I worked for Outlaw Cigar Company, if you're familiar with them, in Kansas City. And what we would do is Añejo by Fuente, right, we would get those every year. It's a cigar, you know, maybe not every cigar smoker smokes every day, but sure. A couple times a year. - It's a special cigar. - It's a special cigar, yeah, yeah. I like to lay 'em down for a year or two myself. That's just my preference.
But what we would do is, you know, we would sell them as singles, and people would normally buy a couple of 'em here and there. and we would get down to like the last full box, and we would save that box, not to hide it or anything, but just for our customers that we know want a crack at a whole box, right, and they wanna lay those down for a period of time. One year actually that box fell behind the shelf, in the humidor, so it's in bad temperature, bad humidity kind of range for that humidor.
That humidor was really biased towards the walls. You know, the walls had great humidity, but that box was sitting back there and we discovered it. We don't even know how old it was. And that moment of relief that you get when you crack open a box that's been lost and found now, and the cigars are in there, and they're perfect, and they smell beautiful, and they have that Boveda sitting right on top, right?
The only thing that separates myself, and [Carlos] Fuente, from creating that experience, do you know what that is? Boveda. - Thank you. - That's the only thing. That's the only thing, because that's what you need for a third wave cigar maker to be doing point of service, quality control.
You have to have some effort, from the moment we harvest tobacco, from the moment we take it out of the field, Mother Nature is done, and a human with their own two hands are responsible for managing the temperature, humidity, vapor pressure of that tobacco. And everything we do around creating beautiful, delicious cigars, is about managing the environment that those cigars are upticked in.
So I think for us, it's incredibly important to have your partnership, and you know, we thank you for going along on this journey, doing the first integrated branding. It's huge. We talk about it with everybody. So really, really glad to work with you. - So a third wave cigar company, and we're gonna hear that term more, and more, as time goes by. It's been introduced here by Daniel Lance, one of the partners in Domain Cigar Company.
Can't thank you enough for the partnership, the support of Boveda. We'll be with you every step of the way. Daniel, thanks so much for your time today. - Appreciate that. Thank you so much. (soft music)