The Clouds Authenticity Podcast. Michael Flynn is a professor of philosophy and history and author of Visions of Atlantis. Michael, thanks for being here. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah, I've been very interested to have you on because the topic of Atlantis, there's a few people out there talking about it, but I don't think there's anybody that's really profoundly describing and going into details the way that you really do. So it's very awesome
to me. But can you tell me what got you interested in Atlantis? I wish I knew, you know, I was just your pretty run of the mill, you know, a jink professor of history and philosophy, and to be honest, just one day, I think I was just reading you know, ignotious donal Lee's The Anti Deiluvian World, which you know as a classic from the nineteenth century, one of the I still think one of the most interesting investigations of the topic. And you know, like most people,
I think I was aware of it. You know, I think it's seeped into pop culture to such a degree that even people that you know, necessarily don't believe in it have been familiar with, you know, the Lost Continent or Lost island, however you want to describe it, of Atlantis. But really it was that book that peaud my curiosity because it started to seem much less like a you know, fictional account than something totally lost on us that
people were trying to piece together with whatever evidence they had. And so that led me down a probably seven or eight year almost full time investigation, this while I was still working, and then later I stopped teaching for about three
years just to fully investigate the subject. And you know, I was quite surprised what I found, because you know, it's commonly thought that this entire story was created by say Plato, and that there's no source before this that mentions Atlantis, which is one of the main critiques, which you know, turns out not to be true. And of course, you know Plato, according to his account in Timaeus and Critias, is two dialogues from around three
hundred and sixty PC. The chain of custody, if you will, of the story, you know, ultimately goes back to Egypt, because that's where Plato's distant relative Solon allegedly traveled, and he spoke to the temple priests at
Sayus, who told him. Let us tell you the story of Atlantis, because we keep longer records than you Greeks, and you know, I think a lot of people would really do themselves a favor just to reread Plato's dialogues, not a secondary source talking about it, but actually read what Plato said
that the Egyptians told so long. And it's quite interesting because here you have the description of a celestial body hitting the earth, some sort of comet, you know, which people like Graham Hancock and others have you know, repopularized today by you know, way of evidence from nano diamond deposits and you know,
flood patterns in the Americas and whatnot. But here you have, in three hundred and sixty BC, a Greek philosopher whose you know, reputation precedes him describing a story of a celestial body hitting the earth around nine thousand, six hundred BC and ending the civilization of Atlantis, which again is a quite fascinating date because mainstream science would tell you that that's when, you know, the Holocene period basically begin as the Younger dry as you know, ended and
we came out of the Final Ice Age, if you will, and you know, the other things that really shocked me were as I started to exhaust historical evidence from Mediterranean, Indian, Egyptian sources on the subject, it led me to some more I guess you would say experimental sources, which would be
remote viewing clairvoyance. And you know, I was of course aware that the average person generally is taught from an early age if they grow up in the Western world, that none of these things hold any water, which is of course hilarious because you know, the United States government has been using remote view for forty five years to great effect, and they absolutely understand it's real clairvoyance.
It's a tricky case because anybody can go into a so called trance and say I had had a bad slafe in Atlanta's and this is what it looked like. But I was interested in who were the first people to do that, and who were the most reliable people. For example, I picked you know, Edgar Casey, because Edgar Casey of his you know, nearly fifteen thousand readings that he gave in a medically supervised near coma state, a hypnagogic trance that wasn't just you know, sitting on his couch. He was in
a state near death, according to medical doctors who witnessed it. You know, edgar Casey was mainly concerned in the early nineteen twenties and thirties with medical diagnoses, so he wouldn't diagnosed people without seeing them, and those people would later get help based on his recommendations. And there's hundreds, if not thousands of sworn testimonies, you know, testing to his abilities. It's not my
imagination, it's not fiction. There's fifteen thousand transcripts that i've you know, read through, and in those transcripts, occasionally he would mention Atlantis at a time when you know, very few people were really talking about it in the nineteen thirties in Virginia Beach to his you know, devoutly Christian friends and clients who were coming to visit him for past life readings or medical readings and things like this, and so those were really interesting because, you know, a
man who in his own waking life, by his own emission, had absolutely no knowledge or interest in Egyptology or geology or even Atlantis, found himself when he would waigh up and read what he said in a you know, thirty minute trans session, he was quite surprised and it actually changed his life because
he was raised about Baptist and he suddenly describes things like reincarnation. He describes the soul of Jesus being one of the first incarnations in Atlantis, which contradicted a lot of his congregations beliefs, and you know, led them to really
study this subject more. And what's really curious is that at a time when almost no one could have known some of these things that I mentioned in the book, dates of extinctions, river beds that had never been discovered, he was talking about it, you know, and that to me is heart evidence,
regardless of how it's gleaned. You know, if a man in a trance, real or imagined, describes accurately a you know, river system in west central Africa that no one in the world had discovered, and describes it accurately and describes where it started and where it ended, and then in nineteen eighty six, space Shuttle imaging actually discovers that it's real. I mean,
that's a data point, you know. And so the book, you know, I call it Visions of Atlantis because it's not just historical accounts of Atlantis, but it's also literally you know, hypnogogically channeled accounts or visions, if you will, of what life could have been like, you know, using people like Edgar Casey, using another kid named Frederick Oliver, who wrote a channel The Claire Audience book that he claims was dictated to him by voices in
his head, which again I mean myself on the surface, when I'm reading these things, I'm a very skeptical person. So I just look at, well, what did this book say? You know, let's just pretend it wasn't channel Let's just say it was a really smart seventeen year old kid in eighteen eighty four writing a novel about Atlantis. Well what does he say? And if you read the whole thing as I have, it's four hundred pages, it's almost impossible that, I mean, there's only a couple possibilities.
A. It is a truly channeled account. B. This is a child who was as intelligent as Nikola Tesla three. It was a secret contributor. But then why was it not published in his lifetime? And why did he himself know things that no one could have known in eighteen eighty four, you know, And so these were the things that I really wanted to do to separate this book from the you know, thousands of books written on Atlantis that seemed to me to have reached a dead end in terms of the research the
sources. I had seen a lot of people just repeating the same sources, the same sources, or I had seen the field compartmentalized, where it's this is a book just about clairvoyant visions of Atlantis, you know, and here's
a book quote unquote just on the hard science of Atlantis. Whereas I thought a more holistic approach would suit the subject and kind of bring people from both sides together to see that, Hey, look, there is an actual science, you know, as Dean Rayden would explain to you, and you know, Stanford University and the Institute of Noetic Science is that. Yeah. Actually, clairvoyance is real. It's very rare, it's hard to develop, but
it is real. Remote viewing is real, that's undeniable. Psychic archaeology has proven to you know, lead to discoveries. Stephen Schwartz's proof in that in
his excellent work. I mean, it's just that the mainstream never engages with that, and it's an important part of the story because we're dealing with the subject that, according to Plato's account himself, is over you know, twelve thousand year years old by this point, So it's not going to be something where you're going to find necessarily an Atlantean potshard at the bottom of the Atlantic, but you might find megalithic remains of the final and breakaway cultures after the
final destruction, which I would argue Giza would be a prime example of that. Well, that is fascinating. I mean, I don't know very much on this topic. I remember growing up my grandmother had tons of works by Edgar Casey and that was my first exposure to stuff like that. So naturally, being a young child, I was remaining curious about his work and it
just seemed like he was spot on about so many topics. But apart from that, in present times, my main exposure would have been people like Barbara hand Klaud speaking about these lations, or most recently we have Sarah Brestman caused me with her work, you know, and people always ask me where chit, Like, hey, can you regress me to Atlantism? Like no, I can't do that, Like I can't suggest to you where you would go
in a regression. So you know, it's interesting, but people do have this subconscious need to know about that time period, and that in itself suggests to me that it's a real tangible thing, if nothing else. And I have to ask you this question, why do you think there is an attempt to control the narrative on this topic? Well, you know, it's I think I wouldn't say that there's a necessarily concerted or centralized conspiracy to suppress this
specific topic. I would just say that the weight of you know, the way academia works. I mean, as a person who used to you know, work in that field full time, you know, not even to take a subject like Atlanta. Let's just take a subject like the possible, you know, an alternative ending, let's say to World War Two. You know. So, you know, the FBI releases their declassified files on Hitler that show very good evidence that you know, the FBI was tracking him in Argentina
for a decade after the end of the war. You know. Again, not my opinion, that's what the FBI files say. But have I seen you know, college textbooks or college professors that taught me update that. No,
it's still he died in the bunker, and that's it. You know, which again is a story that began with Hugh Trevor Roper, who was a medieval you know, historian who was assigned to write the official you know, history of the Third Reich many years after the fact, based on interviews with Nazis I wouldn't consider the most reliable sources and you know, your investigations. So it's like that's a mainstream subject, World War Two, that's fairly
contemporary. You know, you're talking only seventy five eighty years ago, and that's a narrative that we can't challenge, you know, or people that have you know, alternative views of you know, other you know, medieval history.
It gets even more difficult to challenge the established narrative of this is what it was like during feudalism, and it's like, well, new evidence suggests, nope, no, we don't want so when you're dealing with the subject that basically nobody knows anything about except from extremely ancient records and deduction, I think it's much easier just to say, well, we know that it wasn't real, instead of saying, yeah, you know, this actually could be
real and there could have been a highly event. Civilization was utterly or almost utterly destroyed, and you know, the sands of time have covered that up and only left us with let's say, megalithic architecture, which you know has changed and been weathered and warped, and you know withstood dozens, if not hundreds of other cultures that have you know, used it for certain purposes, like say Giza Plateau. And so it's just easier to say, well,
you know that was just built for Kufu as a tomb. And you know, again I asked people, well, there's no evidence of that. That's as fantastical as the Atlanteans built. And in fact, that's more fantastical because
it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't resemble a tomb. It is complicated on a level that makes absolutely no sense if it were to and that would be like discovering the Pentagon and saying, well, there's a box somewhere in the Pentagon that's squares, so it must have been a tomb for the president that they had. You know, it's like, no, it was a
very different subject. It's very different structure. Then, you know, the one thing left after ten thousand years, Let's say, if indeed it was as old as Edgar Casey said it was, which was you know, completed in ten thousand, three hundred and ninety pc by the descendants of Atlantis. So I think it's you know, a function of the way the game works
is people would rather say something's not true than admit they don't know. You know, there's this push I've noticed with academics for certainty, and particularly with the quote unquote scientists these days. You know, that's unfortunately not how science works. It's the opposite of science, or science is supposed to be by definition, hypothetical, in tentative and based on you know, preponderance of evidence towards a new working theory, not some monolithic This is the way it is
forever. But unfortunately, you know, in the last i'd say thirty forty years with the subject of Atlantis from my research looking at the intent, I are historical record of everyone to my knowledge who talked about it. It wasn't
treated this way until you know, really like forty years ago. It started to change, and in thirty years ago it started to get more and more just kind of you know, discussed as a fantasy, and particularly recently, while there's been this huge outflowing of renewed interests from the popular level, there's been a as you've seen, you know, I'm sure with Graham Hancock and the pushback from the Dusty Academy, I mean they hate him because number one,
he doesn't have a PhD you know, from Oxford, and he didn't spend a lot of money, and you know, keep that game going. And it also shows them just absolutely how flawed their own reasoning could be. You know, and there's people that I mean, that's a culture more than an institution. I've noticed that as well. You know, you don't really go to Oxford because you're going to read better books or have better classes.
You go there, so you could say you went to Oxford, and therefore your opinion carries more weight than you know, a guy like me who used to work at a bar and you know, moonlight as a professor on the weekends. But you know, I still have my master's degree, I've still read thousands of books. I would say the evidence speaks for itself. You
know, anybody can do the work. And you know, to my great surprise, you know, some of the best researchers on the subject were not traditional academicians, you know, naishas Donnelly was a congressman and a friend of Abraham Lincoln, and he wrote still one of the best books on Atlantis. You know, he wasn't an egyptologist. Edgar Casey was a Sunday school teacher and a guy who gave medical readings for thousands of people to help them.
He wasn't an egyptologist. Most of the things he said turn out to be true about archaeology. And so it's interesting, you know, because I liked the way the book came out at the end, because you've got you know, traditional high level sources, the Mahabarata, turin King's List, the usual
you know, kind of dusty tomes that everybody talks about. But then you see like how average people talked about it, how people in the thirties talked about it, how people who got psychic greetings discussed it, and how it affected their lives. And then you know how actual people that were not in the field of atlantology ended up discovering things that supported things that they themselves would never have put together with the bigger piece of the Atlantean puzzle because they weren't
looking for it. You know, Like, for example, there was a researcher in the nineteen fifties and sixties, a guy named Maurice Ewing, and he did a really one of the first full scale surveys of the mid Atlantic Ridge, which it's self was discovered in eighteen seventy seven. And it's really interesting because again it just shows you how different people were in terms of considering
these things. You know, in eighteen seventy seven, for example, the Challenger, which was a very primitive, you know, sale basically a sale ship. I'm not sure if it had steam power as well, but it was a sailing ship, you know, a three masses sailing ship that discovered the mid Atlantic Ridge on an expedition, and then later the Dolphin and the
Porpoise other ships confirmed it. And you know, the first thing that the researchers, these were some of the best oceanographers in the world at the time, the first thing these people said when they discovered the mid Atlantic Ridge off of the Azores was they wrote an article that I found I've never seen anybody
site this article. You know, it took me a long time to dig this one up, but it was an article I think in Scientific American and you know, published in eighteen seventy seven seven, and the title of the article is Glimpses of Atlantis, and they subscribe to the catastrophic explanation of ice age flooding, and they said, as the New America was forming, it's likely that the old Atlantis was sinking. And it appears that the story Solon told Plato, you know, by way of Critius et cetera, et cetera,
indeed was true. So when they found the mid Atlantic Ridge in eighteen seventy seven, they had basically said, mainstream scientists, we found Atlantis. Now it's interesting because today, you know, National Geographic and Scientific American, all they do is write pieces about how if you believe that you're crazy, you know. So the book was as much about showing what this could have
been as showing how the whole game works in academia. How just because people today with fancy newspapers and fancy journals tell you you're crazy, well that's not what they said one hundred and fifty years ago. In fact, the smartest people in the Enlightenment, including you know, gion Rinaldo Carley, who was a friend of Voltaire's, in a polymath, he figured it out in the seventeen hundreds. You know, Albert Einstein was friends with Charles Hapgood, who
was a researcher into ancient maps. You know, when nobody believed him, Albert Einstein wrote him a letter of recommendation. Tesla got a recommendation and a life reading from Edgar Casey. You know. So it's like this idea that only crazy people who you know meditate with you know, incense and you know
a Ouiji board are into Atlantis is really not true. And of course, when you strip away the ad Hominem attack aspect of the investigation, you're really left with exactly what you would expect to find if it were real, which is, okay, we have a mid Atlantic ridge, you know, the Atlantic Ocean, which again the Atlantic Ocean where Atlantis was, according to Plato, you know, has a mid Atlantic ridge. It's not just an empty
basin. And Plato said basically that the high point of the mid Atlantic ridge, where the Azores chains are now is where Atlantis was. And then Frederick Oliver, who in eighteen eighty two eighteen eighty four drew a channeled sketch of what the final island would have looked like after multiple destructions. When no one knew what that bottom of the Atlantic actually looked like. It had not been contoured by a satellite, and it turns out to confirm what modern satellite imaging
says that part of the Azores Basin looks like. So it's like, well, if that's not evidence, I mean, I don't know what would be. You know, because steel doesn't last twelve thousand years, the glass doesn't last twelve thousand years. Megalithic architecture does us, but it's difficult to date it. And in the case of say the Great Pyramid, you know, the inscriptions which allegedly were on the limestone casings have all been removed. So
it's like, we don't have a lot. And so I understand people's frustration.
But until perhaps you know, the famed Hall of Records, or you know, a crystal skull that we can decode with a computer, or something is revealed to the world, it's kind of like the extraterrestrial question, where it's like there appears to be a preponderance of evidence, there appear to be people obfuscating the truth, but until the masses are shown on CNN, you know, the bodies under right Patterson Airfield in a you know, pink liquid
with the glass case. They're not going to believe it. And so I never set out to prove anything. I just set out to show people that, look, this is a really fascinating story and it's not that fantastical, you know, And the same thing could happen to us right now if we were faced with say, a you know, two kilometer wide comment or something you know, similar to that, Well, shit, you could not have
given a better answer to that question. It's very interesting because I guess you've managed to find so much information, both channeled accounts and physical evidence, and yet you're really just sifting through a very small amount of information because it wasn't the majority of it destroyed at one point, like everything that we know, the majority of information that we have in the history books has been destroyed.
So we're all feeling from a very small reserve of information. But oh my god, I mean you have to think, you know, people always talk about the destruction singular of the Library of Alexandria, but really there were three destructions, you know, the first under Julius Caesar, when he set the docks on fire trying to save Cleopatra, his seventeen year old lover from her crazy brother in a civil war which caught the the you know megale Bibliotheke I
guess they called it in Greek caught that part of a library on fire and destroyed the majority of you know, ancient records at the time. And then you know, four hundred years later, you have I believe it's Emperor Theodosius the First, who you know, decides there's only going to be one version of Christianity, which the Roman Empire has adopted at that point, and he ordered the specific destruction and dismantling and probably theft to the Vatican you know archives
at that time or whatever they were. You know, we're storing things at that time in Rome. And then the third was under one of the first Islamic armies that occupied and they destroyed the final I think the Serapium was the final piece that they destroyed. So I mean you're talking about you know, millions of scrolls, millions of archives, millions of books from all over the world. And it's really interesting because you know, edgar Casey had one reading
on the Library of Alexandria that I've never seen anybody site. It really was difficult to find and He said that the material that later was put in that physical building from say the time of you know, the Potolemaic dynasty, after Alexander the Great, when they started to really collate all the material from the Mediterranean into one spot. Because Ptolemy was really interested in that. Apparently he
used to steal books from ships that docked at Alexandria. Is the anecdotal evidence that he would He would say, oh, I just going to make a copy, and then the cap and said, can I got that book back now? And that's how you amassed so many books, is one of the
ways people say. But Edgar Casey said that the material that was destroyed had been accumulated from ten thousand BC after the fall of Atlantis, and so we can only imagine what was destroyed in that or I would argue locked away in Rome where it's probably still, you know, in some archive that I'm sure
somebody knows, you know. Allegedly, according to a friend of mine who I think had a friend who knew Dolores Ken and when she was still alive, she allegedly told his friend that she got a private tour of the Vatican and saw unbelievable amounts of unknown Egyptian artifacts and things like this because she was interested in Atlantis, and the tour guide kind of did it on the on
the on the low after hours because he knew she was famous. And I think she was doing a reading there and or regressions there, and you know, he even said like, yeah, we can't, you know, we can never disclose what we really have because it would upset you know, not just Christians, but the whole balance of history. So I think I think that story is probably true. I mean, whether it's true or not, the fact remains that, you know, we're lucky to even have access to
Plato and Aristotle. You know, we're very lucky, and we're very lucky to have, you know, the records that the Arabs preserved during their occupation of Spain, because a lot of those were not even known until you know, fifteen hundred, you know, after Columbus basically set sail, and they started to rediscover these texts after the Ray Conquista. And so you're absolutely right,
man. It's it's like, it's a lot of information to me, but it's probably point zero zero zero one percent of the potential historical record that's
just gone. Yeah, it is. It's It's always been a big driving force in my thinking because I wonder how many people have lived and died and they had all this information about topics like this and they just they never wrote it down or something, you know, or you know how it's just interesting how everything that we know right now in the way that society is, is
so similar. There's so many parallels to the Atlantean civilization, and yet it's really hard for people to grasp the idea because there just isn't this information that's in the mainstream, you know, right, And I guess that's the way it goes with conditioning. That's why it's called conditioning, because they only want us to be who they want us to be, you know, for control purposes. But sure, you know what to ask you? Oh go ahead, Oh you go ahead. No, I was going to ask you.
You know, if the information in your book became household knowledge, how do you think that would change society? Well, you know, I guess it's kind of like with these you know, revelations on extraterrestrial influence in humanity.
You know, I think it's pretty clear to mom and pop in you know, Dayton, Ohio, watching the six o'clock news or something that well, you can't just say this is all make believe, you know, this isn't just X files or something like the government is admitting, yeah, we've recovered bodies and craft, but like we're not going to really tell you much.
But they've admitted that, which again, whether you think that's just info or that it's still an admission from the unfortunately, you know, the central authorities that you know, most people believe, and you know the world hasn't ended, People haven't jumped out of buildings, the Vatican hasn't burned down. I think it's going to be the same with Atlantis because I think as time goes on, more and more things just by the nature of the way history works.
You know, when Graham Hancock wrote Fingerprints of the Gods, go Beckley, Tempe hadn't even been discovered. You know, it wouldn't be discovered for another you know, eight ten, twelve years, and when it was discovered, it's like, okay, now do you believe him? You know that there could have been an eventsivilization then thousand years ago, and then it's like it just keeps going. You know. The Gonum Padang, a pyramid in you know, Java, which nobody knows it could be as much as twenty
thousand years old. And then they find a mine, you know that recently, you know, going back fifty five thousand years. And then I saw something else that we have to push the date of Harminid's back, because we found a flint in you know, upper Ethiopia that is a million years old. And it's like it just keeps getting older and weirder. And you know, they know that people were domesticating crops in the Amazon ten thousand years ago,
that that has to change. But it's like, you know, I think it's not so much like going to be a shocking revelation or anything, because I mean, the pyramid exists. It's existed, it's been able to be visited for thousands of years, and yet we can't construct it. There's no explanation of how it was built. And people just seem to kind of, you know, keep watching the game and eating hot dogs and drinking beer
like the world ends. So I think that you know, short of finding like I said, some sort of you know, I don't know, piece of technology that's somehow still functional or as edgre Casey and many others have said, a sealed hall of records that has some sort of decipherable script that literally explains the history of this culture and leads to more discoveries. I don't know. I don't know if there's going to be any kind of like aha moment.
I think at this point, people are so infantilized and so desensitized to novelty, just through social media and just the crazy unraveling of daily world events, that nothing is shocking. You know. It's like that great Jane's Addiction album, Nothing is shocked. It's true. I mean, I think that's why I think I say in the book, you know you could find a VHS a TOF and you know Rata, who Casey said, built the pyramid. You know you can find a VHS put it in and shows and building.
I don't think anybody would care. I think people are just trying to, you know, buy milk and put gas in their car. Yeah, you are spot on there with the infantilization and the desensitizing of people. That's really what it has come down to. And yet whenever I start talking to people about stuff like this, and I say, you know, the way things are going right now, it's not hard to believe that the way that a civilization like Atlantis was destroyed could have been as a result of AI and
we're going in that same direction. They look at me with the butts and they say, oh, you're one of those crazy folks, aren't you. And I'm like, what, Yeah, Well, you know, that's really interesting because you know, of course, in the book, not to give too much away, because I would love people to read it and you know, and tell me what they think. You know, I have a very thick skin, and I always appreciate feedback. But you know, of course
I had to investigate a couple of the alleged reasons. You know. You know, in Edgar Casey's account, there's three destructions that span you know, enormous amounts of time, one in fifty thousand BC, one in twenty eight thousand BC, which you know, whittled a much larger continent into the final island in the third iteration, which would have been the story Plato received,
would have been the third iteration of Atlantis. And you know, in Casey's account, one of the destructions was technologically caused, you know, by a misapplication of a extremely powerful technology akin to the Death Star on a terrestrial level in Barbrahan Klow's account, which again I always tell people, you know, the reason I focus so much on these early early channelers was because they had
no precedent, so they had nobody to copy. And as much as I respect people like Barbarahan Klow and Philis Schlemmer and other you know channelers from the seventies, eighties and nineties, there's no way I could prove to a skeptic that they didn't just read or were subconsciously influenced by Sayega Casey or other things. But I still include them because they even predicted things that, to answer your question, are kind of happening now. Like, for example, Barbaraha
and klowd wrote a book called The Atlantis Signet. It's a very weird book from nineteen ninety one or two. Now think about this. She said that she's channeling her past life as a scientist who works in a photon laboratory that's run by an extraterrestrial from the Pleiades named Haton, and he's a basically transhumanist alien scientist king who does not like humanity, and his goal is to implant
well, she says in twenty one thousand BC, is her timeline. This had already been done, that the human race had or whatever was around at that time, you know, members of different cultures, Atlanteans, people in Memoria, perhaps, I don't know. She doesn't go into much detail on that, but she says that the people had been in This is in nineteen
ninety two. She says this. She says the people had been implanted with crystal implants to make them all think alike, and the goal was to create a one basically well, she says it the new World Order centered on Atlantis, run by plead and scientist gang named Haton, And she says that once everybody was chipped with the crystal implant and tracked, that Haton wanted to This
is very bizarre and again how would I prove this? But according to Barbarahan and Cloud, the center of the Earth is not a ball of magma. It's an actual semi molten iron crystal. That's how she describes it. Now,
again I'm not a geologist, I'm just reporting what she said. She said that that destruction was a result of this scientist king deciding okay, now it's time, and he wanted to quote unquote strike the crystal with some sort of technology that would basically instantly reentrain all humanity to be in sync with his agenda, which was an extraterrestrial agenda, and in doing so, it completely backfired and caused some sort of chaotic resonance wave that emerged from the center of
the Earth and basically sucked down that portion of the Earth and precipitated a global cataclysm. Now again, who the hell knows, But what's interesting is that she's describing an agenda that we're watching unfold right now, and she described that in nineteen ninety two, and very few people besides maybe, like I mean,
David I debuted that year. So it's like, that's a really interesting data point to me that she basically predicted and she called it the New World Order, which, of course George Bush had already given that speech in nineteen ninety ninety one. I believe the New World Order speech. But it's interesting because it still wasn't widely talked about outside of say, Bill Cooper's circles and
things like this. But you know, that was interesting because that explained one explanation of, say, how this could have been destroyed, you know, and in Casey's case, the Towy Stone overcharged and basically did the same thing. And it's hard to say, like, were they both talking about the same thing. I don't know. Casey doesn't describe a scientist king he describes a scientist who accidentally overturned a power source on the Principal Island, so you
know. And then the final destruction case you never mentions what caused it. I go to Plato for that one, because he describes a comet, and because there seems to be some evidence that a comet did hit the Earth, probably on the North Atlantic ice sheet around that time, because there's not a great explanation for the rapid flooding you know that happened. So I'm just an open minded person. I don't have an agenda. I personally don't care if we, you know, find or don't find it as cool as it would
be. It's not something I think that's you should approach that way. I think when you when you approach a topic with I'm gonna do this, that's really not scientific. And so I really spent a lot of time writing this book to see what was real and what was not real. You know, I did not want to prove to myself that Atlantis was real. I actually discovered that there's more evidence that it did exist than not through a very honest,
objective, seven year investigation. You know where I would be lying if I said I don't believe that Atlantis existed, because there's too much evidence to suggest that it did. And it actually logically makes sense, and it explains a lot of what human beings, who anatomically have been the same for a quarter of a million years, had been doing for the first you know, one hundred thousand plus of those years, which mainstream quote unquote science doesn't have
any explanation. It's nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And then one hundred and ninety five thousand years later, Sumiria Pyramids. Yeah, arah, blah blah blah blah. It's like, well that doesn't make any sense. Well, God bless your ability to jump down a rabbit hole. Man, You jumped all the way down it for seven ye that's the only way to go. You got to go all in, and you got to you got to just I always tell people. I told them all my students. I
still teach you if you really want to be a historian. You know, I'm not a scientist. I'm not a geologist. I'm not a clairvoyant. I've never had a past life reading. I'm a historian. That's my job. But if you really want to be a historian, you got to go outside of what most people think historians do. You got to really get in there and look at every goddamn thing that has ever been said about the subject.
You know, my advisor used to tell me that, you know, newspapers anecdotes an old lady at a coffee shop that's just as valuable, often as it might lead you to something you'll never believe, you know, And you know, I don't quote old ladies that I met at coffee shops that
you know, heard something about Atlantis. But it's been so fascinating to see the influx of letters and emails, you know, since this book, which you know, went to number one best seller it's strangely in ancient Egyptian history category, which again I find not surprising, because the story of Atlantis is
the story of Egypt. By their own admission, and a colleague of mine, Rob Nyland, who's friends with the egyptologist Manu Sifzada, he just gave a presentation where he deciphered with the help of a German colleague, I believe a you know, temple script that he argues even describes Atlantis in detail that nobody has really been able to refute yet. So it's like this idea that
it comes from Plato. Even Plato says it's like it. Just when anytime I hear people say that, it's like, then you haven't even read the first paragraph of the dialogue because he tells you where it comes from. And then if Edgar Casey is telling you after the final destruction of Atlantis, the Atlanteans migrated to three parts of the world, and one of them was Giza.
And then you look at like Robert Bovall's research and it's like, well, the three pyramids appear to be aligned to ten four hundred and fifty BC. Okay, that's when Edgar Casey said the pyramids were, you know, starting to be built. That's when Plato said Atlantis was basically about to be destroyed, give or take five hundred years. That's when you know the younger
dry has ended. That's when Maurice Ewing says, you know, we can't explain why there was freshwater diatoms that you know, we're probably above water in ten thousand BC in the mid Atlantic. That's when you know all these other stories from the other places. Edgar Casey said, the Atlanteans went like the Yucaton that produced the Maya, which later produced you know, the Aztecs.
Even their own stories suggest that Atlantis was real. So it's like either Edgar Casey was a you know, bullshit artist, which I go to great lengths to show in the book. All the people that tried to debunk him. A Harvard psychologist lived with him, a psychiatrist lived with him. All of them went specifically too debunk him, and later came out saying, you know,
we cannot explain this. This is a truly aberrant person who actually has the ability to remote diagnose not just illnesses, but find missing objects and know things that no one could know, non local information. And that's documented, and I show that whole story in the book. It's like a sub chapter of the book is how his powers work. But I think at the end of the day, it was, you know, something I did for me.
You know, even though the book, to my great surprise, sold thousands of copies and has become something of a career for me, I never set out to write a book for anybody. You know, I didn't. I didn't care if one person wrote. I just said, I want to know, and I'm going to write the best goddamn book on this subject for me. And if one other person likes it, great, But this is
for me. And like a crazy person, sometimes when I'm traveling and I have a lot of books, I'll reread my own book and I'll find new things every time, which to me is the sign that I actually did the work. You know, that it does stand the test of time, and I think it's, you know, been a really enjoyable thing. But it's kind of something that after seven years I can say, all right, that's done, you know, now onto the next. Well, I can't wait
to see what you're coming with next, Michael, me too. Yeah, but I really appreciate it, man, And I've actually got to get going now. I'm still teaching on the clock officially here. But you know, I really I encourage people. You know, it's on Kindle Unlimited. If you don't want to, you know, purchase it. You can read it for free on Kindle Unlimited if you have that service. On Amazon preview it and if you're interested in some of the sources and other researchers that are interested
in this. You can go to my website Michael leflem one word l E f l e M dot com and there's a lot of great resources there, and you know, other interviews and even copies of you know, public in the public sphere books from the nineteenth and early twentieth century that might be tricky to find, and you can read those. I uploaded some great links.
But you know, it's a collaborative effort. It's something I couldn't have done without the work of you know, great researchers that you know, come hundreds of years before me, going back all the way to Plato. He was very brave to put that out there. In his time, he was you know, ridiculed by some of his Greek contemporaries. And you know, it's nothing new if you do anything. You know, Tesla was ridiculed. You
know, would anybody today say that Nicola Tesla's an idiot? No, but many people at the time did, you know, so I obviously, you know, I'm aware that certain people think this subject is is silly, but generally those people don't know anything, and so I'm not really you know, I'm more concerned with other experts in the field who perhaps have found, you
know, additional or contradictory evidence. I'm actually always excited when somebody says, hey, you know that thing he said that actually might not be true, but here's a better way to look at it. That actually excites me. You know. I actually really do not like authors that just blanketly say this is the way it is, and if you disagree with this, dating you're crazy, you know. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people like that.
Their ego gets involved. If the you know, reshot structure is not Atlantis, signed, sealed and delivered, then go to hell. It's like, well, Atlantis was an empire according to Plato and all other sources, so you're goun to find traces of it in different places. You know. That's why I never say Atlantis as a single location. You know, there's the British Empire, then there's London. Doesn't mean they're the same, you know,
I think. So what I suggest to people is, you know, just keep an open mind and imagine looking for the British Empire in the year twelve thousand and twenty two. What are you gonna find. It's gonna be very difficult, and we don't even build megalithic architecture anymore, so there might be no evidence of our current conversation ever again in the future. And does that mean we're fake. No, it just means that it's very difficult to
say anything with authority. But it's just as stupid to say it's all fake that I cannot abide. I agree with you, Michael, thanks for being on the Boundless Authenticity podcast. Absolutely man, and I wish you the best brother. Same to you.