An Intimate Evening with The Porn Conversation: LIVE!

Bottled Up Bitches is hosted by a horny Mary couple. Content may include adult language and themes. Check the description for more details if your discretion is advised. So you came here because you thought you were going to see some four you are. It's season three. Welcome to Bottle Up Bitches, your favorite sex podcast with me Rihanna Campbell and Me producer man Adam Rihanna. Are you ready for some hot topics and even hotter guests? Well, you know I

am. Let's do this, see Horney bitches and you guys thought we were on a break. We were on we were on a break. That's a friends reference, and I've never seen friends in my life. I've seen a couple of episodes. Yeah, had enough to I feel like qualify to make that reference. That's fine because I use a racheling like as a daily lingo for I don't wear bra? Is that what that means? Yeah, Rachel, Jeffer Andison notoriously doesn't work a bra and the world was a better place

for it. How are you today? I'm excited? Yeah, you has some fun things going on. So we uh, we interrupt your season three break to come out a little surprise episode because your favorite sex podcast, Bottle Bitches. This part of the south By Southwest Edu, a little education slice of south By Southwest. Look at us go, look at us go. And so yeah, and you may be hearing um a lot of background noise.

We are in a we are not in a studio space. We're kind of in a big kind of open open space and they're setting up the event as we do this. We just wanted to do real live recording, live recording. Yeah, so we're here. We were fuck it, we're doing it live. Fuck it, we're doing it live. We are here with that for cursing. No, but also like I encourage anyone who invites us to be part of an event to listen to our episodes just to know they're

getting themselves into. We will curse and I will not wear a brawl, and that's how I roll, just like Rachel, just like Rachel herself, not wearing a brawl and person like a sailor. That's how I do. UM. But we were invited here today by the Porn Conversation, which is a nonprofit started by Erica Lust. And I've talked about Erica Lust consistently on this podcast. I am constantly talking about how incredible her work is and if

you haven't listened to those episodes. Erica Lust is a Spanish She's of Spain, she lives in Spain, and she is a writer, director, creator of female centric porn. It is the porn us women deserve. It's really beautiful and intimate and just, I don't know, just amazing is the best way seeing female centric porn. I would hope that you understand that it's just

going to be made better because females do it better. Yeah, there's not going to be a woman trapped in a washing machine and that her step brother has to fish out penis. Yeah. Yeah, storyline story always say that I'm looking for the story. I'm looking for the story, and that's the clapp back is like the story as she's stuck in the dryer. So that's a female centric for us means. But Porn Conversation is a non profit.

They provide tools for families and educators to talk about sex with young people, and I'm very excited about it. It's something that we all need. They specifically focus on porn literacy and I'm excited to learn more about exactly what that means. I think you and I have like a bubble idea of what it means. What does porn literacy mean to you? Adam? Porn literacy? Yeah, well, I mean to break it down like in the usual Adam way, which is very literal and analytical. Yeah, porn literacy to me

would be well one of two things. Sure, sure, okay, here we go, here we go now either And I don't know if this is the appropriate term, but the term we've used for smut books. I don't know if there's a better terman Yeah, erotic books, it's my offensive. I don't know. I don't know. I think we're in this place to ask that that's a good question. I don't I don't take it as a dirty thing. I'm just moving your drinking it look like that's fair. Can

I help you? No, just that you're going to spill your um. Yeah. Erotica, Yeah, so erotica in the literature format or erotic literature, erotic literature. I like erotic in literature format. Please, we are in an education space or literacy about literacy, educating about yeah, like a pamphlet like something your guidance counselor maybe I think it has a lot to do with understanding and breaking down. And I don't want to say understanding twice,

but I mented in two different ways. So I think of literacy just like we know how to read, it's we know how to comprehend. That's a vent. You know how to comprehend, under stand and analyze something. That's when I you know, a bigger version of literacy definition that I think about. You know, I think it's not just we know how to read, but it's we know how to read and understand. Yeah, And same thing about porn, Like even if you take it in the reading sense, it's

being able to comprehend it. Yeah. So especially with young people, I think we all know that watching porn at a very young age can be terrifying just because young people don't may not understand that this is not what sex is like yeah, I mean, and it can be detrimental. Yeah, it can give people a false reality of what sex is and what it should mean. There's rarely any like consent in porn. There's a ironically, there's a lot of rape porn where there is here the whole point of it is for

literal consent. Con It's okay, okay, um, anyway, I'm just saying we'll get a little spice and dice, But I'm just saying it's important as a young person to know how in correct and fantasy it is. Yeah, because if you've never experienced sex, it can create a false narrative and that can be that can be kind of harmful. Sure, absolutely, no, I agree. So I'm excited to hear from panel Q and A. Yeah, there's a lot of educators here, so kind of for the listeners

to kind of prep you for what this episode is going to be. Yeah, it's going to be kind of a highlight reel of to night's events. So we're gonna there's gonna be moments of us just discussing like we just did. There's gonna be you know, splices of interviews and maybe slices of panel and and so it's kind of what you guys are getting are kind of an audio highlight reel of this event, of this south By Southwest event. Yeah, I'm very excited. Well, good so nice, I had to say

twice. Um. Yeah, so even if you're not in Austin and you couldn't attend this event, you get to still be part of all the benefits to be part of the discussion listening, tell us your thoughts, send us an email, let us know what you think of this episode and what you think of the conversation as a whole. I don't think we have a lot of therapists and like coaches in season three, but not specific educators. Sure, I'm excited to see there's any teachers involved in this. Introducing potential new

tools to schools would be really beneficial. Absolutely, all right, Well, we'll check in anything you want to add. I think I'm good. I don't know. I can't think of anything happened with the top of my head. I'm excited and ready to see kind of what it's all about. I'm excited to sit and observe. Yes, yeah, and then we'll go from there. Observe with us. Yeah, okay, take a back seat listen

in. Meet our first panelist, Melissa Pinturk Carnegie, founder of Sex Positive Families and author of the best selling self published book Sex Positive Talks to Have with Kids, A Guide to raising sexual, healthy, informed, empowered young people. And I am a sexuality educator. I'm also a licensed social worker, and I'm a parent to three incredible humans. They're twenty three, almost

twenty four thirteen and nine. So I'm the founder of Sex Positive Families, which is a sex education platform for an online sex education platform for families. We teach puberty workshops that are gender inclusive, family style interactive to families literally around the world, and we're building an online school. I wrote a book called Sex Positive Talks to Have with Kids, highly rated a seller on Amazon, and self published it because you know, I didn't want anybody telling me

what I could or couldn't say. Yeah, and essentially just working to help families create more open, shame free households and conversations around these very human things. Thank you for having me, wonderful, thank you, Thank you both, and thank y'all for being here again. Avil Louise Clark, clinical sexologist, brand Manager of the Poor and Conversation Intimacy coordinator and today's panel moderator.

Whether or not you're part of the LGBTQ plus community, whether or not you're a part of the sex worker community, whether or not you're in the sexual health community, there just seems to be a big wait and a really unfortunate politicized movement against our communities. So would y'all like to touch on that for a second and kind of give your input and share how that's been affecting your work, not only as you know Americans, but here in Texas. Yeah.

So, in the US only twenty nine states and the District of Columbia mandate sex education. Texas is one of those states. It does not a choir sex education to be taught in schools, and they just recently became one of five or six states that when sex education is being offered, it is on an opt in basis, so meaning that parents the caregiver has to opt

into it versus opt out of it, which sucks. I've been a sex educator in schools here and not just within my own work, and we know that for many reasons, whether it's the parents didn't get the note, they didn't get the email, you know, they opting in leaves a much smaller amount of people that will actually then opt in. And in the case of

my young person's school, we're actually in Round Rock School District. My young person's school last year, for example, their puberty education that they would have done that my son probably would have could have taught U. He's co facilitated our puberty workshops before with me. They didn't have enough people to send in their opt in and so they canceled it, and so that, you know, becomes the justification for them to be able to just not offer anything at

all. And so because there are so many, hey, because there are so many inconsistencies across this across states, then across the state, across cities, and across school districts for something that should be able to be just like all the other subjects that are taught in school that have curricula that you know, are are required and mandated, and our young people are not getting access

to this information. And that is where porn and things that they find online, word on the street, or experimentation ultimately become the way that they learn about these very human things. And where my work with sex positive families comes in is so many of us adults who are now in the position of parenting or mentoring or teaching raising young people, we didn't have many of us did not have sex education. It wasn't inclusive, it wasn't comprehensive, it didn't

exist at all, or it was fear or shame based. And so how do we then approach these conversations that we didn't have a model for or we don't even have a comfort for where many of us are working through trauma, our own trauma experiences associated with bodies, your lack of consent, sex, sexual assault. So there are so many reasons why the conversation gets avoided,

the topics get avoided. And then if you don't have schools, if you're sending your child off to a school and your school isn't even providing that level of education, then again it leaves our young people without the resources to navigate these these things that are integral to being human and to how we relate to other people, how we get to understand ourselves, how we can feel affirmed

and understand other people and show up for other people. Consent, it's such such a foundational aspect of being human, and that's why we have the me too movement, right, So many adults that come to realize, oh wow, I was assaulted, I was violated, my consent and boundaries were crossed. I was in an unhealthy relationship and I didn't I didn't realize it because

we didn't receive this education. So yeah, wow, yeah, I I love every demillis asked to say, and I know that that's going to be majority of my feedback for this entire event, but it's really refreshing and it's a very healing inner child moment for me to hat to see and hear a mother, Yeah, have these kinds of views. And she's I don't want to say she's not young, but she's she's an age that could be our

mother. I mean, I mean my mom's will I think like fifty two at think years like fifty four, fifty four, fifty five somewhere around there like that. And I believe Melissa's forty nine. I think that comes up at some point or I might have read it on her website. It's did forty nine or forty two? She's gonna give you? She says it in her intro. Did I make that up in her in her thing to the panel, she's in her forties, she's in her forties. Apologies, she's

her close to fifty or close to forty? Yeah? Yeah, um yeah it was. And we're tiny, little baby people where like yeah, so she could be our mother? Yeah, And yeah, I think I think there's she has like a twenty three or twenty four does Yeah, I think there's something to hearing in regards to what this this whole conversation is about and

what the question was about. Hearing it from a mother's perspective. You know, we you know, in Texas we have so many you know you you bring it up on the show a lot, like there's a lot of women's rights being taken away. There's it's very conservative and not a healthy sexually healthy place. And I think hearing you, but well, you don't hear very often you hear a little bit about like how sex education isn't isn't great in

Texas or a lot of states. But I think here really having someone who that is their kind of perspective and that is their main point they're involved in right now, and they are in that, I think kind of really sheds a light on not only yes, not only is yes we don't have great sexual education, but like why and what that like actually kind of intels and

what that leads to. Yeah, and having that from a mother's perspective and asexual educator's perspective, I think is very eye opening and like I said, being in the thick of it because she has the twenty sething girl, but she has a teenager right now as well, and she has a very young in Yeah, so I would love to. First of all, we have to figure out a way to have her on the show. Yeah, I would love a full conversation with her. Yeah, because I actually want to

know how um sex education has changed. She has three completely generation, three different generational kids. That's true. So if I'm thinking about myself, I had a very bad, not bad, but like not a very informative sex education that was me my twenties. She's mentioning that her son's, her teenage son's sex education class didn't have enough sign ups so it was canceled. Yeah, so yeah, I did want and then yea, and now she has it. And she also has a very young, like elementary child as well.

So if it sounds if I had a conversation with her, I want to know our Of course, I always feel like we're reverting backwards in Texas, But truly, is education in schools for sex getting literally worse because maybe they gave a very blanket, black and white conversation with the oldest, didn't have one with the middle. Yeah, you know, And it's it's eye opening because you would think as years go on, we would become more open

or more weird to have conversations we're all learning more. So it's just weird to kind of years go on and being even more afraid of bodies. Yeah, I'm trying to think about because we had sex education, or a lack thereof, we had a form of a sex education class where they just well

here about that, well here a little bit. Yeah. I remembered something the other day that they did in it that I didn't bring up, where they would be like like they'd be like, Adam, if you have sex with Jessica, and Jessica already had sex with Todd, you've had sex with Toddy. If you when you have sex with somebody, you've had sex with everybody else y, yeah, and that's the way they always put it.

Yeah, So I remember the guys teasing the girls being like, yeah, so if you have sex or something something like that, like basically is anything like well, now you've had text with like fifty people, you grow slut Like That's the way guys treated it. At our school. The guys treated it a lot differently, probably because we're at a much smaller school. It was more like it became just a joke of being like, you have you had sex with someone with a woman, so you're gay. Like it was

just kind of us being making a joke out of it. Jesus Christ, middle school boys, that's what we do in small town Texas. Um, it wasn't good. What was I saying? Oh? But despite what what literally sex education? How terrible the sex education class was. I'm trying to remember. I don't remember if it was like an opt in thing. I feel like it was mandatory for us. So sex was in health class. I don't in our special and I don't remember anything needing to be signed because

it was in our folks. It was like in our text books. Yeah. Yeah, but when we had the menistruation conversation, that was a that was a sign in Oh really yeah. Interesting, Yeah, because there were some kids that were not in it. Huh. I almost would have thought it'd be the opposite. No, because it was younger, so elementary. The menstruation conversation happened in elementary school for me, I want to say it was in fourth or fifth grade. Yeah, yeah, and the health class

sex conversation was eighth grade or my freshman year. Well, you made it. You mentioned something that the sex, your sex conversation, your sex education was we did have in middle school. Actually, you're right, well, but you you talked out. It was like the boys and the girls were in the same yeah, saying right, because ours was they separated us for that. It was just this is the thing. It wasn't even much about sex as much as class. It was about STDs. Okay, So they

didn't give us any sex education. And in middle school they put us all in a room and gave like a visual a visual aid of getting yeah, without teaching us anything about sex. Yeah. And then in health class when I got older, eighth grade or freshman years, when we had like health class textbook sperms travel up the tube. Yes, but it wasn't like urges or this is gonna you know what I mean, like that, dude, here is scientifically what has happening. We're not we're gonna stay away from Yeah.

And I do actually remember in eighth grade, um, like we in biology class, we all got assigned a different system and one person got like the reproductive system and had to make a PowerPoint about it. Yeah, And they compared it to going on a trip to Disney Rold. They did like a metaphor of sperm for lizing the egg, and it was a metaphor going to a Disney Rold the egg has to be epcot, that's insane. He was m one. He was one of like the brown nosy. His mom

was a teacher kid. Sure sure was our sex education class I remember was taught by coaches who I have not want to be there. I told you our health teacher was a coach. He was like, don't have sex and don't drink. And then I saw him like three days later my mom's bar Oh weird. Yeah, well see ours was, if I remember correctly, he was a coach that everyone hated, and even at the time I wasn't a big fan of. But now as an adult, I can appreciate.

Maybe he wasn't that great of a coach, but as a person, I'm like he was kind of a cool guy now, like he was just very like he was me. He was like, he's like he's all fucking kids are idiots. Um, but can I want to touch on one more thing real quick? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And I know you do.

You have a thousand things you want to touch on. Um. It's so funny because I feel like, um, my freshman year of college, you know, we did freshman orientation and it felt like very much like, Okay, we gotta we gotta figure this out together, because our freshman orientation was like school and um, have fun, but don't have too much fun, don't be stupid. Um like kind of like her fews and were to eat and consent. Yeah, yeah, And then they did it, and then

they talked forever about consent. Interesting they did very long I remember it. He was a very cool man and he was very like, I know how many of you guys are, like, I know she wanted it. How she gave me the look and everyone just started laughing. They're like, that's what y'all, y'all say, is she gave me the look. That look don't mean anything that that look is not a thing. That look is not a green light, and it is not a golden ticket. Until she says

yes, that is not consent. Well, we were making out and the music was flowing and we were touching. That's that's not consent. Yeah, Like he went through this long thing. Until it is verbalized out of their mouth, it is not consent. Long conversation. The probably majority of the freshman orientation was about consent, and that was the first time someone's ever conversated

with me about that. Yeah, I wonder because I went I went to two colleges, but one was a community college, so there was no freshman orientation or anything like that, and the other one was in art school, so there was also none of that kind of stuff. Um, but I would be curious. I want if you're listening right in and let us know, like if you had a similar the experience. I wonder if that's common amongst colleges too. It would make sense just in general, like colleges college

boys notoriously. Yeah, I'm not giving consent. Yeah, so that would absolutely make sense. So good for good for at least you have ahe whose house goose house? I think it is okay. Any final little thought at either of my schools, Um, the paintbrushes. I think technically the community college I went to was the Buccaneers cut Um, Yeah, I have. She made She made a couple of points that I really that really stood out

to me. And one of them when she talked about the opt in style of education classes, like, there's the kind of base level of how stupid that is, right, But she brings up a point that I think is a very like in reality point that stood out of the idea of like, you know, I think when you think of there being an opt in class, the go to thing is like, well, parents aren't going to want to opt in. But she brings up this other level of like parents,

she's not going to get the form. They're just not gonna get the form. I can't think of how many as a child, Yeah, forms of stuff that I wanted to do, But I'm just a stupid kid. Just put in your folder and send you home and say good luck getting this too. You're RESPONSI You're the most irresponsible thing in the world. Take it. Take it so like yeah, it's so that's a real like that really stood out to me of like, yeah, it's probably it's not always kids.

Why why would we put that kids? Unless purposeful, But that's just conspiracy theory or even just like you know, even modern times, like an email, you know how many emails don't make it or any of that, and you know how how diligent is are these schools going to be with this kind

of stuff? No, absolutely, I mean, coming from my standpoint of I have a thirteen year old nephew and his mom and then my mom his grandmother are always talking about that how they'll go through his backpack once in a while and they'll find all kinds of permission flips and forms and homework, and

they're like, when were you going to do any of this? He's like, yeah, Like kids notoriously get home, throw their shoes and backpack in a corner and don't touch it until the next day, an unstable and then they're done for the day. You know how many times kids forget their backpacks and don't even take it to school. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, But they do that. Yeah, I was a freak and was had anxiety out the ass and could not imagine for getting like my favorite or racer.

Then yet kids be forgetting the whole backpack. Yeah, I would be more. Yeah, like, I'm more concerned at that age to making sure that I got a pocketful of rocks than to make sure that I get my permission slip to the parents. People got a pocket full of rocks and some people have a pocketfull of sunshine. But on that note, I'm excited to say that we had a little bit of a conversation with Melissa about um education, education in Texas and our experience before the panels started, and so I

wanted to give listeners a chance to eavesdrop on that conversation. I want to look at that book. Are you intrigued that there have a copy for you? Do? I would love to look at it later. We used to actually work for a publishing company here in Austin, and we lost our jobs because of this podcast. They weren't as sex open as you are. They weren't as sex positive. They were very much the opposite, and they're like,

get out of here. But that makes me so happy because I'm like, well, no, we need to talk about things, especially with little ones because they needed the most. And are you here? We talked a little about this. So you've lived in Austin majority of your life, So what was it like in your education standpoint? Like what was your sex talking school like? Because I know ours was pretty minimal. Yes, yeah, being here in Texas, Um, I've been here since our was nine in

Austin. So I went through elementary and I remember one puberty related menstruation related session that was in elementary school. They separated us by assumed gender. Yes, and so there's like, well what are the boys learning? Right? And then we learned for maybe an hour and that's it. And then I remember herpies on a giant screen and outbreak. Right, that was maybe fast forward to high school one, you know, right, auditorium presentation moment.

Sure, and it was very fear based, very shame based, and that was it. There wasn't really anything in between or any certainly, nothing comprehensive, nothing inclusive. Very fear and shame based. Yeah, limited, very limited. Yeah, And because that's when I think of my sexual education, that's the only thing I remember is, yeah, they separate the boys and the girls. And then all I remember has just been showing us slideshow of

pictures of penises with different STDs, and that's that I remember. They didn't show us any Yeah, they didn't show us girls any genitalia with any What they did was they put us all in an auditorium. We did did a separate for periods. They did put us all in a room and talk to us about periods. And they gave us a deodoran because they said you're gonna smell. And then they gave us like tampons and a pad and I had it like in my closet ready, and when I did start my period,

I was like I know where to go wonderful. Well, that's that's that's kind of positive. It was me ya. We just learned about periods and like that's what that looks like. And but in regards to sex, and I remember in middle school, they puts an auditorium. They pulled like five different people and they held a white card and they're like guests who has clamidia and they would like walk and where we had to guess who had it, and they would walk up to that person and spray the card water to see

if it turned a color. Because the whole point of it was like you never know who has something. You shame, you don't think it's this person, and then like they sprayed, it turns pink and they're like he's the one that's infected, and like you never know. So that the whole conversation was about how you just don't know on the surface who has an STG. You gotta be scared, you gotta be yeah to look out, but what

are we looking for? And and there and there's such that that you know, technically there's such a misconception around that because then you walk away thinking that symptoms, you know, being symptomatic that's the only way you're going to tell. Yeah, And many of the sdis don't have symptoms that may be present and or someone can be asymptomatic and still spread. Right. So it's like it's such a misconception that, oh, you look clean, right, that

perception of looking clean or looking dirty or infected the fort too. They're like, you may not even want to have sex, you may just want to rub genitals. Now you got her fies Like they were constantly like there is no yeah, They're like you think yeah. They were like you think you're fine, You think I'm not going to have sex, but like your love, your yell are going to rub your bodies on each other because you're so enthralled in love and you feel ready you're in high school or whatever. But

now you have this. So I was like, damn, we can't even touch bots, like like what actually can't do anything. So it was it was very it was based on fear. Everything was based on fear, like that I'm seen in mean girls like don't have sex, you will get lamydia and to unde. Yeah, and so imagine, right, like this is so common. These narratives are so common for so many adults. Walking this earth today. These are adults who are having children and raising children and being

placed in the position to have to educate and mentor a new generation. Right, but how do you do that when you yourself had poor to know sex education? Yeah, and these were your examples how you talk about these things. So then it's no wonder that many adults don't know how to approach this and need to seek out resources or support to figure out how to create a different result. Yeah. I think my mainstream learnings came from sixteen and Brannan.

I was a sixteen and Brannan kid, so like that was really big when I was like fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, So I used a lot of what I learned from sixteen and pregnant as my sex sex education, and it was always about like, well, I don't want to be locked to a really shame boy, so this is what they weren't. Yeah, I mean, you know, and and that's true right for me. I'm thirty lb forty three, So for me, it was HBO, Real Sex CANAMAX.

Yeah, so you know that channel is available now exactly or if you had to like see the channels through the like fun, don't you didn't really have the channel, but you kind of have the channel, yeah, a little bit exactly, and then you're like it's on mute, you know. So, yeah, that that was my sex education. There wasn't the Internet, there wasn't Google. There was an online porn at that time. So

yeah, there's a lot of sneaking around. You knew that you weren't supposed to be, you know, accessing this, or finding the VHS tape you know at your aunt's house, you know, yeah, or the magazines that were hidden, or the Joy of Sex book that you know your family had, right, it was like enjoying cooking. It's very different than today where

kids have their cell phones that they've been given by their caregivers. Right, so as early as a kindergarten they're given these phones and they're given the information of the tools on how to use them and how to use them safety or what they may come across, yeah, such as poor Yeah, and that's that's why we're here exactly. I'm so excited to hear you speak. And yes, after I would love to look at the books. I want to look I want to look at it and talk about it a little bit of

thanks for thanks to us they're turning the lights off. So I think I know we're getting like the Grammy music. Yeah, thank you, Thank you. Meet our second panelist, Nor, co founder and director of sex Workers Educating and Empowering Texans, also known as SWEET, an Austin based grassroots organization led by transgender sex workers of color. So I am a disabled queer and

trans sex worker educator and community organizer. I am of South Asian descent, and I have fifteen years leading service first and community centered programs to increase abortion access, disability justice, comprehensive sex and gender education, service provider, cultural competency and sex worker advocacy, and LGBTQIA and BIPOP communities. SWEET is dedicated to ending the stigma against and the criminalization of sex work through peer support,

outreach, public education, and harm reduction. We were founded in twenty eighteen in response to SESTA FOSTA, which is a federal anti trafficking bill that had many adverse impacts on the well being of people in the sex trade industry on all facets of it. And we are always accepting donations that are passed on directly to sex workers in need locally here in Austin. Thank you for having me here? Well, why are these messages being sent in porn? Why

are we not seeing consent? Why are we not seeing communication? Why are we not seeing you know, what really goes on behind the scenes as far as like sexual health practices STI testing contraceptives, working with intimacy coordinators. What are they actually doing that the consumer doesn't really see? So this is why you know, we're not coming at here like fearmongering, anti porn anything like that, But basically like why don't we have the information when it's sex work?

But unfortunately people don't always treat But what do you industries? And they tend to assume that violence, misogyny, racism, and other kinds of oppressive fetishism are just normal or acceptable risks of the job or of any sex work, rather than campaigning for safer workplaces for all workers, including sex workers. This results in a lot of victim blaming when sex workers experienced violent to oppression

on the job. Also, many sex workers are also parents or caretakers to young people or we were young ourselves recently, and we care about protecting youth from harmful messages, but we don't always have control over media or studio demands and this is especially true for trans people and people of color. The content that is profitable and the roles assigned to us are not usually up to us. We often have to agree to fetishizing tropes in order to be financially successful

in the industry. It's important to note that the negative messages that we see in porn, like violence against women, queer and trans people, young people, and people of color, as well as the lack of safer sex tools and consent negotiations, and narratives that center pleasure for the viewer rather than the performer, these are all things that are present in many forms of media and

in ideas about relationships in society at large, not just in pornography. So we should ask ourselves, in addition to questioning these narratives im porn, where else do these tropes show up in media that you consume, in the conversations

you have with others, or in your own internal dialogue. Pornography, like all media, is a representation of current cultural trends, and shifting the normalization of those trends is one of many first steps to ending the demand for fetishizing content, and people tend to blame the porn industry and the sex trade industry, and in return, sex workers for these problems instead of recognizing them as

systemic issues that show up everywhere. So, in my experience, a lack of porn literacy can cause people to make assumptions about sex workers and even to assume that the narratives that they see in porn are based in the performer's pleasure right rather than in the viewer or the consumer's pleasure, and this is used

to justify the violence that we as sex workers experience. So talking to people, including young people, about sex work is an important part of porn literacy, especially helping individuals understand the spectrum of choice, circumstance, and coercion that

brings people to different kinds of labor. The sex trade industry exists to meet a natural human demand for intimacy, but there is potential for exploitation and for harm, like in any capitalist industry, For many diferent kinds of marginalized people, sex work is a means of survival that is more accessible than traditional employment, but the criminalized and stigmatized nature of it means that sex workers end up

being dependent on abuse of people and exploitative resources to survive. Both within and outside of the industry, So respecting people who work under this system and advocating for decriminalization of all consensual sex work is an important step towards making the industry

safer. As a sex worker and as an advocate for sex workers, I encounter a lot of stigma, particularly in the idea that trading sex is always unethical or always taboo, or that porn creators and sex workers in general should not have access to every part of society because we have sex for a living. Unfortunately, many sex workers have trouble leaving the industry even when we want

to, because others will not hire us after we've done sex work. I also want to gently push back on a common idea that sex in porn is not real, or that all porn is a fantasy. Just because it may look different than sex off camera doesn't mean it isn't real. Sex porn performers

are real people, and our bodies are real. Even if we have to sometimes conform to mainstream standards, perform under contract, or have sex we wouldn't necessarily have without pay, the sexual experiences we have even at work are real and valid, and the scenes that we create on film and in person take a lot of skill and are not easy to achieve without practice and experience.

To me, porn literacy lies in understanding that even when you're watching real people have real sex, it's under conditions that are difficult and sometimes impossible to fully replicate. It's okay to learn things from porn and want to emulate what you see in porn, as long as you understand that the real sex happening on screen is usually motivated by profits, not by mutual pleasure. Performative sex and

sex that happens for profit rather than pleasure is still real sex. For many people, it's not a fantasy, but it's a reality of how they gain income, and the strategies used there are not always appropriate for all situations. It makes sense that the real sex you have for free doesn't look like the real sex others have for pay. Most things that are soul for profit are created for the consumer's benefit, and there can be some genuine overlap when sex

workers are given the conditions to enjoy their work. Sex should always be consensual for all involved, and that includes sex for pay and porn when it's made ethically, is consensual and can even be pleasurable. In fact, saying that sex and porn isn't real or is just a fantasy normalizes the violence that porn performers can experience on the job. If we instead, if we instead approach porn as real sex but different for different from sex that isn't for profit,

it legitimizes the needs, boundaries, and consent of the performers. Porn is also very meaningful and real to people who rarely see their trans bodies or their queer relationships represented outside of porn, and while that shouldn't be the standard,

it is still the present reality. It's important to remember that people in porn are real humans with real bodies and they are actually having sex, which I think means The question becomes, if sex and porn is real and real sex, what can sex work consumers do to make the industry more pleasurable and safer

for sex workers? And the simple answer to that is you can respect us, advocate for us, push back against tropes, and as a consumer, seek out and demand content that allows marginalized people to have the money and power to create, direct, conceptualize, and not be controlled in the content that

we produce. Question the narratives that you see normalized in porn, but also in all media and in society, and most importantly, pay for your porn, especially from independent creators, because it's the best way to make sure that your money is going directly to porn performers. You're coming through with the action plan, yeah, I know, they're coming through with data, statistics, research, research, answers, answers, like they're here, they're not buying

games, dotting and plotting, dotting, implotting. No. I loved so many things that they said, Um, some standout moments. I mean, just just the opening statement of sex work is work is one of my favorite things that people say. Sure, because people don't understand that. Even my even my dancing time, people didn't understand how much work. I mean, you know, I would have a social hangover the next day. She's like, I can't talk to anybody. I need to stay in bed. Yeah,

I can't be around anyone. It's like I hit by a fucking truck. Yeah. Um, it's a lot of work, it is, absolutely, Yeah. I mean there's very few things, very few things on the ground level unless you're like a billionaire or something. And even some of those very few things that if you're getting paid to do it is it's easy, you know what I mean. Yeah, So yeah, I don't know if that's like a stigma people have with this idea of sex work. I think

I think there's a very dumb idea of people thinking porn stars. I'm using them as an example. Um, like their job's easy, right, Like they're like they're g bid of sex, so it's pretty cool. Like, no, it's a fucking job and it's tough work, and you it's not always pleasurable, as Nor explains, Yeah, yeah, uh no, especially as they mentioned, the main way they can make money is by giving into tropes and these mainstream ideas and very capitalist situations and yeah, um, that's

that's not fun for anyone involved. Yeah, I mean, we'll remember that documentary watched where I mean, even that gentleman like wrecked his penis because he took so many erection pills because you have to be erect for like eight hours. Crazy. Um, it's wild, and it's even wilder when you have to, especially Nor being a very empowered trans human and having to make very that they're specifically only making. But I'm sure they've they've been in that situation

where they have to make very stereotypical porn. Yeah, how just like not discouraging, but just like unsatisfying. Sure, you know, yeah, And I mean like this is a I just feel like it'd be a little like I always want, I want everyone to be proud of themselves in their work.

But that's got to be frustrating when you're especially with Nora, who is an activist and as a leader and is established in all these communities and they are going to have be put any situations where they're going to have to make very trope centric porn. Yeah. I mean, like you's got to be frustrating. Yeah, I mean you look about it, and it is like not to try to compare about any stretch of the imagination because it's different.

But you know, you look at that with a lot of different industries, like even the film industry, right, Like people want to make these like artistic pictures that tell a story. But but then it's like, well, I gotta fucking now make am Marvel movie because it's what's going to pay mills and put. Yeah, they're not going to get they might not get funding

for what they want. Yeah yeah, um, And I think that's specifically certainly that that's why I love Erica lust so much sum for that that example specifically, Yeah, um, but I also love the way nor was able to speak about porn in a very positive way. Um. Circling back to mud intro of this episode, when we were at the porn conversation before it started, just potting away, you know, doing our little intro, I talk about, um, how porn can be a nightmare, I think,

is what I called it, and even Avril calls it. Um. They mentioned it could be dangerous. You know, we when we think of young people in porn, we think of scary, negative situations. Sure, but I loved the way that Nora was able to speak of it in a way of how it is helpful to certain people. Yeah. Um, I mean

we talked about that sometimes as well. You and I we've spoken about you know, of course, sex education is trash in Texas and then states and in many states, and then sex education for a young queer child non existent, non existent. They don't know, they're even more uncertain about their bodies and their sexuality and how to act on that. And you know, you know what I mean. So in those situations, it's like porn is all

they can rely on. If they're not if it's not being spoken and and you know absolutely, Yeah, I mean I love that, Like Nor brings up a great a great point that I never thought about. But how helpful or even just confidence whatever the term is to see for like a transgender person,

to see that represented in porn, like just see representation. You know, when you are in this very like this this your you're you're you are this niche that doesn't get a lot of airtime quote unquote or even like representation, and you don't get to like see yourself, especially in a sexual sense, right like and even in a romantic comedy like a movie, just a simple romance scene, like you don't really get to see yourself be represented in that. And so having porn to say like, hey that can be me,

that's me. Yeah, I think is gotas got to feel amazing, Like as a as a cis gendered white man, like I'm represented in fucking everything, so like I can't speak for that, but it's got to feel fucking amazing. It's very empowering. Yeah, I mean, I know we're just bringing up every day comparisons, which is not fair, sure, but I mean how many times do I and when I think about you and I in the amount of bullshit we get with me being four leven and being six.

Yeah, I don't get that kind of representation in a movie, Like, Yeah, I wanted I would love to see, Like I always was like I'm gonna be a movie start and I'm like, can't be a movie start because I'm too short. Sure what are they going to do? What's it called a perspective? The whole movie. They'll put you on a milk rate like Tom Cruise, it's the entire movie. But yeah, just just the normalcy of loving and living your life and you know that community not not

getting it. Yeah, like even to you know, I would I would say, like using that as example, like that's the only kind of context I would have. Like recently, I saw something on the internet. Someone posted a picture of there was another couple. The man was giant out he was like built, he was huge, but he was probably like four six five but like three hundred pounds just muscle, and he was with a woman

that was probably about your size, Like it was a tiny comparison. And someone posted this video and put a bunch of comments about like this is disgusting that man should be arrested and like it was frustrating. But there are also a lot of people going like, you're this is stupid, Like, no, it's just a it's a different two different sized people and like see just that right, Like that's no comparison to being transgendered and seeing yourself represented.

But even just that, like it felt good to have that validated. Yeah, um so so Yeah, I mean I loved the circling. Having that representation is really nice. Absolutely, and hearing how important porn is in and someone in them using it as a tool and using it as um just a way to be seen, it does make me look at porn in a very different way. Yeah, you know, I loved that. I love that specifically because I mean I enjoy my porn from time to time, and I

truly just think of it as just like a way to pleasure myself. I don't think of it as a learning tool or a resource. Yeah. That was really nice. Yeah. I loved being able to walk away from the discussion and from the porn conversation seeing porn in such a positive way. It made me really happy to understand why it is so important to different humans in

the world. Yeah, and even um, I think it comes up later and I don't know if it's going to make it in the highlight reel, but I think I think it's North that brings it up as well on that part, well, not the consent part, but for qute communities, Yeah, to be able for education on them, Like if someone is interested in b DSM, porn, can good be a good, m good kind of

educational tool to learn that world? Yeah? No, absolutely, And Nowhere also mentioned that there was poorn with consent and there were almost almost training videos of how like sex were her etiquette and how what to do and how to act and questions, and I think they hadn't talk about consent and boundaries and and things like that, you know, all these things that you know, Avrol brought that up in her question, you know, things that were missing.

How do we not have these things because they seem un sexy. That's why in porn you don't see condoms being used. I remember reading and seeing all kinds of things about that is because using protections on sexy, so they just make everyone get tested. You gets get tested all the time, you know, so you because they're not going to allow protection and even if you're not transmitting any STIs or anything. It's still not great, you know, to have unprotected sex. But sure, so many reasons, for so many

reasons. But like you know, we yease, infections and so many other things you can get there aren't STIs you know. Yeah, I don't know you. I don't want your raw business over here, you know what I mean? Absolutely, you know for sure. Yeah, So all these things

like consent and boundaries and that's not sexy. So it's like it's not something we see very often, yeah, or even like I mean even simple stuff like even seeing in a porn someone putting a condom on, like understanding how how as as much as it seems like a pretty self explainatory thing, it's not always. It's not always that way. Yeah, Like I think you once tried to put a condom on me for the first time, and like you're smart and you figured it out fairly quickly. But there we know how

to put a condom on. I put condom on a mini a pen. You say that, but you struggled to little bit. No, it's probably just because it was dark. It's always I know how to do it, it's just you have to know what side to roll it. You just have to know what side to roll it. Yeah, well, did you pinch the tip? That's not in the directions. It is very much in the directions. I'm gonna get a constant wrapper right now. Please go get a

condom rapper right now. I will take a pause just so we can read the instructions on I don't think I've ever actually read the instructions on a condom wrapper, so that that might be on me. I think, I just I think I just learned. I'm a what do you call it, a hands on learner. I think that's how I learned these things. It's better

back and show you. Does it say there's no instruction? It says it says have fun, do your best, do your worst, says please see directions for use inside the package, inside the box, inside the box. Yeah, so we don't have the instructions, but I know how Yeah. Yeah, anyway, I do want it real quick. I know, like we're trying to keep these somewhat short. Um, just because we got some

highlights go through. But you brought up something and this kind of goes back to the whole such a sex education thing with um because we didn't learn this and this is it specifically came up in my mind when you were talking about

like like a gay youth even like getting less education. Yeah, like even learning about we didn't learn about like the AIDS epidemic or any of these like really big things that can kind of like that affected the like like I guess my question, I guess my thought is, like I'm trying to think of how to phrase it, like learning about like AIDS for example, and specifically in the in the regards of you know, it can be so big in

the gay community and like just I don't know learning about that aspect like that, like not having that education, right, Yeah, you know it does. What I'm saying makes sense. I understand what you're getting at. I just don't relate. Yeah, I learned about BID's epidemic. We learned about it in school. I did not. Oh really, it was like in our textbooks, we did not learn about it. Yeah, because it had it was politicized. Yeah. Yeah, we learned about it in a political

way. Yeah, and about how that was used as almost like a fear amongering situation in politics and such and such. So um, but I also just grew up very aware of things like that. I mean I grew up. I don't think I've talked about it much on the on the pod, but I mean I from the age of four, I was around a trans child. Yeah, that was I think they were like three years two or three years older than me and they transitioned. And I just remember, I mean full story, I mean, I guess I can get it feel like

it's relevant. I grew up with Derek, and Derek liked to play with barbies with me, and I knew that, and it was a good time. I would played barbies Derek had thee I was always so jealous. Derek always had the best barbies, like way nicer than I had. And they even had the Barbie sewing machine and would make little dresses for their barbies and I was like, will you make my Barbie a dress? And they were like no. I was like, okay, I'm sure. It wasn't very

fun hanging out with me because I was just younger. Sure, but we played all the time. Nonetheless, they loved rug rats. They had a little Dill Pickles stuffed animal. But it was like those really bad kids toys where the body is soft and the head is hard, Like why why would they do that? To us, and so yeah, no, they were a good time, had a lot of fun with them. And a few years and they loved Britney Spears as much as I did. Oh my gosh, oops, I did it again? Are you kidding me? Yeah?

The posters was everything, and that was just life. And then a few years went by. I want to say, I was in first grade and my mom just told me one day, she was, hey, just so you know, uh, Derek is transgender and is not going to go by Jenny. And I said, what does that mean? And they said, my mom said, well, Derek has a boy body but a girl mind. Derek was born with a girl brain. So and that's why you and Derek have so much fun and like to do those types of things together.

And I was just like, oh, okay, word And that was a conversation and that was it. And then and this was a while before like transgender was kind of culturally prevalent, you know what I mean. I don't know, I was very young. I mean, I mean it wasn't within the fat past like five years. It's what I'm saying, we're transgender now, people like understanding more. And it was kind of not sure, not a culturally big thing. Sure. I don't know what was culturally big at

that time. I was a young in but sure, I mean sure, But like even in high school, transgender wasn't like all, you know, people weren't talking about it. Yeah, it wasn't. It was less of a mainstream thing for sure. And that's all it took. And that's all I needed. I clicked entirely, and I'm like, of course, sure, of course they're Jenny, Like, this makes total sense. We like the same things. We like to play mermaid barbies and dance to Britney Spears

of course. Um. And that was kind of the conversation and that it was as easy as that. And I think about Jenny all the time. I don't know where they are, Um, I need to ask my mom if they're still in touch with their mom. Yeah, but uh yeah, I think I was just getting at that the representations is really important. And it was really nice hearing Porne spoken about in a positive way and and the um the importance of it, yeah, in such a different way. Yeah.

Really that was a very standout moment for me, Ols, because you brought up it was very meaningful. I really enjoyed that. I love the positivity of it all. A really fun part of the night with the porn conversation was April opening the floor to some Q and A moments from the audience, and I wanted to share some of my favorite moments of that conversation. How do you feel about that? I hate it. I'm not doing it. You can't pay me enough to do it. I am paying you shit

son? All right, fair enough, all right, We'll pay you in kisses to play it. I'll out. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them and we're all here. Whoever you feel answer the question. So any questions, Yeah, yeah, yes, So I was thinking all about what you're saying about, you know, talking to your kids

of corn. And for me, this is something that has always been in my mind of like, okay, porn is the fact and senset at the end of the day, and it's something where I came to this realization of Okay, I just want to create corn that I want to be afraid of my kids would see. But at the end of the day, with the way the internet is, is how do you keep them from that? And do you show them something beautiful or do you just totally tell them that's where

adults. And if you tell them that's where adults, isn't it going to make them want to watch it more? That's yeah, that's really great question. Thank you for the work that you do. So it's about building a relationship with your young person. Okay, your young person has to feel safe to talk to you, has to feel like they can trust you, that you're not going to judge them, or that they're not going to get in trouble for their curiosities, for what they're thinking about, what they dream about.

The reality is is that many of us didn't grow up that way, so it can be hard. Or we make the assumption that, oh, kids, kids never want to talk to adults because I didn't want to talk to my parents, right, And that's not true. I'm telling you, I'm raising young people, write them through all the stages and I'm still working through them now. And it's these are constructs, like we construct that by

the way in which we socialize our young people. And so the same thing goes for what kind of container are we creating in our home that would allow a young person to be curious with us. The moment we start to introduce shame, we start to So it's not about boundaries, because boundaries is different. So when we tell our young person that this is content that's made for

adults, right, it's not made for children, that's a boundary. When we are regularly setting boundaries and respecting boundaries, and that includes them giving us a boundary and we're respecting that boundary and they see that we're creating a home where it's not an adversarial dynamic. So none of us are trying to get at each other, you know, or you know, we just respect that. We say, yeah, so I have a thirteen year old now who absolutely you know, has a cell phone. He's on you know, TikTok.

Not like he's not creating content on TikTok, but he likes to you know, watch like he loves sports, so he likes to watch sports videos. But our process to introducing or allowing him to be on social media, like first it was like, you're not thirteen, and these platforms they've got rules, right, and it's just being honest, you know, as opposed to while I'm not going to give it to you because you're not responsible and

I don't think you'd know what to do any bubble. But you know, like like why would I want to talk to somebody who talk to me like that? Right, So sometimes we have to check ourselves, like am I someone that someone would want to talk to and tell something really personal or intimate without fear of judgment or shame. Right. So it's a lot of work, it's a lot of mirror, Like you know, I have to look at myself often, you know, and apologize. There's so much repair.

And it's again a relationship, so there's so much repair that happens if ever I get ahead of myself or if I'm talking too much, So I have to check myself and make sure that I'm listening to him more than I'm talking, that I'm creating a space where he feels safe to open up and share, and I'm not pushing you know, him too to share. So again this sounds like, well, what does this have to do with what?

It has everything to do because it's the relationship that you're fostering with them, so that when you have to set or maintain a certain boundary such as you know, this is not made for you, and so this is this is not something that's okay for you to be watching. I want to here's the other thing too that I talk to my young people about and that I teach,

you know, talk about the why. Okay, I want to make sure that when you get ready to make decisions about sex, that you feel prepared, that you feel supported, that you know what you're getting into. You deserve that. If you start watching porn, and again, the porn that's out there and accessible, that's going to be free, that often again

doesn't respect to the people that made it. So we break all of this down so that they develop a level of empathy and a lens about the world around them and how they can participate in the world around them, and a personal responsibility. It takes time. Yeah, it's like extra words, and it's and it's listening and it's talking it through, but it's you're you're you're helping to foster another human on this earth. And and that's a huge responsibility.

You know, tells a lot of words. But you know, my thirteen year old, it's like he's not he's not out here, he doesn't have anything to oppose. Like I want to say this, I'm not afraid of him seeing poor. That is not my biggest fear. That's a lot of parents' biggest one of their biggest fears that he has seen or will see or that could see. And I know I'm not I'm not afraid because you

know why, Because I know that I am. I am someone that he can talk to and he'll come and ask me questions, you know what I

mean. Right, I can contextual it that that is not the worst thing on earth if he if he comes a class, you know, and it's happened in his school, kids are on their chrome their school issues issues promos, watching porn y'all the classroom, and my son, I'll tell me about it, and I'm like, oh wow, you know, like right, he can tell me that without me three out and turning it into a big old thing, right, because I know that I'm having the conversation, We're

having the conversations at home. That is not the worst thing. I'm honestly worried about suicidal ideations, his mental health. He's I pulled him out of public school. His last day is tomorrow, and I'm starting to unschool him because I had to asked myself if I'm how am I doing all this like liberatory education work? But yet I got a kid up in this school that's like sending emails about somebody threatened shoot up the school last Friday and they're gonna

have extra police on campus and all this stuff. And I'm like, what what you know? So that's what I'm I'm afraid of those kinds of things, like real stuff to be afraid up. Poor. Yeah, And it's not because I'm having this permissive thing. It's because we talk of like it's an open conversation. He has nothing that he needs to buck up against. That's what is happening is that young people are trying to buck up. They

don't have anyone to talk to to ask their questions. What I tell parents, goole young people turn to Google because Google will shame them for being curious sens true. Okay, once we introduce shame, that is what leads them to run. Horn is not the enemy. Not talking to our young people about these things. That's the enemy. So break the sign. That's break

the shame. And I'm telling you it's it's a relationship. Then you get to have with your young person and you'll get to like, just it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Thank you, Okay, thank you. This is moment of like a fifth me when I was in the middle of a three way and the guy was like doing a good time. Oh my god, I'm like happy, this is so funny this communication. Does that increase or decrease the arousal? Oh my god, it was amazing. I go to therapy

on a Tuesday. The question is how do we continue? Like do you see the dynamic changing of where the communication seems to stop and hit a wall. You can learn all this stuff and then you're like when I get in that room and that would be quiet because I you know, infore and I've seen so much silence, Like do you do you see me in that dynamage? I'm fascinated by you mentioning the consent negotiation, which you would never call it in the moment, like are we going to negotiate consent? Maybe?

Like you know where do you how will we make the leap to like, you know, bringing some of this conversation in there with you know how without killing the mood er se but like, you know, how do we get over this obstacle? I mean, I think there's this idea that's becoming a mainstream that consent is sexy and that normalizing, Like sure, you're not gonna be like how we negotiate consent, but asking is this okay? Do you like this? Are you into this? It's becoming more normal. Um,

And at least in my personal experience. UM, It's not something I learned in school and sex said that it's something that I was taught by my peers and that I learned on my own and learn to normalize in my sexual experiences where even if I'm wanting to hold cans or kiss somebody, that I ask first, and that I don't really enjoy sexual experiences with people who aren't on

the same page of wanting to check in before engaging. So I don't know if I have an answer for you on how to change it, but I think it's really just an individual thing where people have to normalize just getting comfortable

being uncomfortable and asking and being okay with being rejected. And it really kind of leads into these bigger societal ideas of what great culture is and what entitlement is, and like, what are the ideas we have about sex and when we're old sex and when we're people just saying yes to sex because we're into them, and what being desirable looks like and if that means we should just suck everybody who's into us, Like, these are all deeper ideas that translate

to what our self worth is and how we feel we can communicate our boundaries

to other people. So I think that it's deeply personal, but it's also societal and it's kind of everybody's responsibility to start shifting these norms a little bit and asking even when you're like, I don't know if this is going to be a turn off or it's going to make this person leave the room, you should take that risk, because it's more important to make sure that you're getting that consent or yourself and for that other person than to just get the

pleasure that you think you're having in that moment that actually might be really traumatizing for you or for that person. Some final thoughts and resources with nor conversations and Melissa were able to articulate things so much better than anyone ever could, honestly, because there are things, whether it's about corn or sex or sex work by myself, I'm a dancer, so there are a lot of things that I'm like, I didn't like that, that's bad, But I don't

know how to articulate what I don't like or what I do like. So I know that you're all talked out, you've had a long day, but I just want to give you some praises and tell you what I took away from this, because I thought it was such a good balance of talking about the good things about corn and how we can consume certain things and what they

mean for people. I think when you spoke about representation and how that is so helpful in those scenarios and watching Corn and seeing yourself represented, like it makes absolute sense, and I'm like, of course, of course that's where we're looking. And because I mean even in general, anyone in the queer community or you know, even with mainstream movies like Bros. Came out and everyone was like, oh, finally we have a gay wrong com So I

just want to tell you that I'm proud of you. I don't you know, yeah, I don't want you feel like you have to give like a Ted Talk Part two. I was just so impressed and you really made me so happy. I I'll reiterate more in the episode later on, but I was just like, I want to just let you know that I'm very proud of you and you're doing such a great job and you being nervous about public speaking. I was like, bite my ass, like you are killing it.

You articulate yourself so well, you get your point across so well, and uh yeah, your positivity just thrills me. And sharing actions and what we can do, I think is what I want you to reiterate one more time and when it comes to anyone looking for resources to consume helpful porn. I love that you brought up b DSM and like the intro to that you

brought up. I think it was a key dot com So I just wanted you to to share some of those action things that we can do to support people in the BIPOC community, sex workers in the BIPOC community and the trans community. What are those actions? Of course, And first of all, thank you so much. It means a lot to me to be appreciated, I'm heard by other sex workers. I love being able to meet us out

in the world and that's my favorite part of doing this kindable good. And in terms of just what I want people to take away, these are some tips that I wrote for sex workers, educating and empowering Texans on how individuals can help and the violence towards all sex workers. So the first one is to learn about the sex workers rights movement, about the difference between legalization and d FRIM and how criminalization affects the lives and safety of people who sell and

trade sex. To respect us, to not make jokes about us, and remind people about what stereotypes are and how that contributes to the violence of the experience. To dismantle stigma. There's no shame in being or hiring a sex worker, and people who trade and sell sex deserve to be well compensated and protective, even and especially when we face violence. And pushing back against the normalization of violence against sex workers and conversation in media and anywhere else who encounter

it is really important because nobody deserves a youth. Mostly, it's really important to listen to people who trade and sell sex about our lives, our experiences, our needs and desires. Don't treat us like we're all the same, assume we need someone to save us or take advantage of our narratives for your own purpose. We don't need saviors. And finally, to support peer led services for sex workers. Most major cities in the United States have a sex

worker led organization or a harm reduction chapter. Take the time to find and support groups that are run by actual sex workers rather than donating to groups that are run by people outside the industry. You can visit our website Sweet ATX work and our social media at sweet Underscore ATX to learn about our work and to donate to help us provide mutual aid to local sex workers and create more resources that are created by resources created by sex workers and for sex workers.

And Austin Sensis amazing. And that's all gonna where to put all your links as well in the episode description so they can look at it there. But thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here. Yeah, I'd love to connect again sometimes. Yeah boy, oh boy, oh boy,

chef boy. Already what a time. I uh, I know I spoke about this a little bit earlier, but read listening and going through the whole day, the whole event is. You know, what we recorded has been just as eye opening and informational, educational and resourceful as it was when we saw at the first when we were their life. Yeah. Any any last minute, that last minute, any last thoughts, my own thoughts are things that come to mind thinking about you know, this live event that we got

to attend with the porn conversation. I didn't know how that was the longest sentence. It's just like sorry, now you're good. Um, you're the longest sentence by my ass um. Yeah, I think like it definitely. I think we learned a lot and we're still learning a lot. We're still learning a lot. And I think it was more eye opening, or at least I think it was different than what we thought it would be in a very good way. Yeah, the idea of porn letteracy and porn education.

Yeah, I really didn't know what to expect. Yeah, And I think we got a very multifaceted panel and I loved that. I love the conversations coming from two very different point of views, one being you know, a sex worker, one being a sex sex educator and parent. Um. It's very fun seeing different people on the same team, but just coming at it from incredibly different angaesum, And that was really nice. I just thought it was a very respectful conversation. I know, you learned a lot. I

learned a lot. We're still just learning a lot. I pride ourselves in the way we try to just keep our little noddle going. Yeah, and it's been nice. It was really fun. It was nice being in a room with guests and people that were also in some type of sex industry. Right. There's sex therapists there, and a sex agent, a sex a sex worker agent and such. There's just we're usually the freaks in the room who talk about sex. Yeah, so it was very fun to be in

a place where we all do that. Um. So we met lots of fun people. I do want to express my gratitude it again to Um Sarah with Erica Lust with Avril Um of the Porn Conversation for inviting us to record an interview and be part of this event, um during South by E DU and just kind of welcoming us with open arms. Something. I kept meaning to ask how they found us because it's so important to me, just because I'm such an Erica Lust fan. Um. But yeah, it was a

really good time. I I think it's definitely an experience that we'll remember for a good while, an everlasting experience. Yeah. No, I am We're truly grateful to everyone and Melissa and Nor Melissa Nor yeah, just everyone. It was it was it was a experience I shan't forget. Yeah. Yeah, special thanks to Wild Bloom, who hosted the event. It's such a fun space. ULL have to go and get some gummies from there. We do love a gummy. I love I love a gummy. Until next time,

guys. I know this is a very different style episode. If you're listening because you're in one of our bottled up bitches and you're one of our amazing listeners, or you're brand new here and you're a big fan of one of the speakers, or south by er Erica lest and you're brand new, welcome. Um. This is a space for learning and a space for I say, learning from like an average place. We're not educators, No, we're not educators. We're just a couple of open minded married slobs, just

slobs, just slops, just doing our best. Just a slap like one of us. Doo doo doo doom. Yeah, thank you everyone. Um. So many informations of people's will be in the description of this episode, so go check that out so you can follow and find all these amazing, very intelligent people and the yeah there links their websites that they represent a few different websites that we're brought up for resources. I think it was a kink university and stuff like that. We should probably link ye, So yeah,

I hope you enjoy this, hope this was a resource for you. I hope you enjoy the conversation and this new format that we put together. And yeah, yeah, have a nice little treat in between seasons, A nice little treat. Come back for season four, good mine for season four. You We'll see y'all soon. We'll see you early April, say Horny Bitches. If you enjoy today's episode of Balled Up Bitches, be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast to join in on more of our

conversations and fun. You can follow us on social media at bottled up Bitches on Instagram and bottled up Talk on Twitter, and write in your sexcapas and anything you want to share with the team at bottled up Talk at gmail dot com. Cover art for battled Up Bitches is created by Winston Gambro. Episodes are produced and edited by Rihanna Campbell and Adam Lewis. This has been a Cricket Bunny production. Stay Horny Bitches,