¶ Working With Agencies - Benefits and Considerations
Welcome back to day three with our wonderful co-host of the week , jennifer Goforth-Gregory . Jennifer shares amazing advice and guidance for freelance content writers in her Facebook group and her newsletter . She's also written the book on the subject . Make sure you check out those links in the show notes .
Today I'm going to turn the tables on Jennifer and ask her a question , because I'm honestly curious about this one . Let's see what she has to say . If you're a freelancer , business owner or anyone who deals with clients , you're in the right place . I'm your host , teresa Edmond .
I've been dealing with clients and running my business for nearly two decades and in that time I've dealt with my share of doubt , imposter syndrome and not knowing what to say when a client asks a question . I wasn't ready for . I created this podcast to empower you with the boss responses you need to grow your business .
Each week , my guest co-host and I will bring you five episodes packed with practical insights . Monday through Thursday , we answer your questions , and Fridays we dive deep to explore how our co-host embraced their role as the boss of their business . Welcome to Boss Responses , jennifer .
Today's question is one that I see people ask you a lot and you give a really great answer on it . I'm going to have you answer this one . I'm interested in working with agencies and having that steady income , but all of my experiences in the past have been bad . How do you choose the work with agencies and why do you like working with agencies ?
Great question . First , if you've worked with one agency or three agencies or four , you've worked with one agency or three agencies or four . There are great agencies and there are bad agencies . Just like you wouldn't say , I've worked with one company , I'm never going to work with another company , people generalize them and I think that's a mistake .
I think that for many niches , agencies are great sources of work for a couple reasons . One is that a lot of almost actually all of my big name clients Microsoft , ibm , adobe , google have come through agencies . Most of them turn to agencies . That's where you can get the big names that help you further your career .
The second is agencies can be a great source of steady work because they have other projects . They're also a great way to do new things .
If you've worked on a client for a year and you let them know you want to move into a different niche , a lot of times they'll be open to it because they know you don't suck and they know that you're good and they know you'll figure it out .
That's how I got my first white paper and my first case study was also trying new emails writing emails through someone that already knew me with an agency . Agencies are great for trying new things . Third is so people tell me that the pay sucks with agencies and that's not true . There are agencies that pay crappy and there's agencies that pay great .
You just have to find them . You also have to be sure that you're comparing apples to apples . With a direct client , you have your managing the revision . Is your managing the schedule ? You're scheduling the interviews With an agency . Most of the time they're handling that . They found the client , so you don't have the marketing time .
You don't have any client calls . They handle it , so you have to . You're spending less time as well . So be sure that in most cases , make sure that you are taking that into consideration . If it seems a little less , the hourly rate still could be higher .
And I often hear and they have a good agency with a good manager handles the client crap , so you don't have to deal with it . A bad agency makes it your problem , it makes it worse . And the other thing is that even within an agency , there can be great project managers and crappy ones , even at certain agencies .
I won't work with certain managers , but we'll work with others , so you have to keep that distinction as well . Is it the specific project manager that's good or effective for your style , or not effective . So that's something to think as well .
So you're setting boundaries even with your agency clients . Oh yeah , the first couple of agencies I worked with were very difficult ones and they honestly weren't much more than content mills . This is back when I very first started .
They paid me peanuts and then I found out , because they accidentally copied me on an email , that they were charging the client like $10,000 for something they paid me 500 for , and that's a big thing . Now , since then , I've encountered a couple of agencies where they were smaller agencies , boutique agencies . They specialized in one thing .
Usually I would go in as a ghost writer because that's my area of specialization . They paid more and , like you said , I did not mind that I made a little bit less than I would with a regular client because I did not have any of that client overhead .
But they were really clear with me upfront what they would handle and what they wouldn't , and I got lucky in the fact that they let me do project rates . But I understand a lot of your rates with your agencies are hourly . How do you handle that whenever it's a value based situation ?
So I don't do hourly rates , except in very . I was about to say I don't , but I just did it . I rarely do hourly rates , so I just say I won't , unless there's a specific reason , and this was a prestige clip that I recently said yes , that it will get me a lot more work .
It was for a company that's on everyone's computer right now and on a topic that I needed . There are exceptions , but normally I will say I don't take projects that pay hourly . What I do is I either walk away or I explain my reasoning , which is and this goes back to me being very Jennifer I say so . This is the thing .
I have a very hard time figuring out how to build , because I think in my head while I'm driving or walking my dog , and then I end up writing in my head , and at this point they're laughing at me , which is fine .
I write in my head and then it takes me an hour to write and it makes no sense that I should get paid $100 for something that only took me an hour , because I spent four hours thinking about it . And then I'm not .
I feel wrong billing five hours into another , really laughing , and so I don't , I can't do it and what I propose is it'll come back and we bill our clients that way . And I said how about this ?
I always charge you five hours for a blog post , regardless if it takes me six , if it goes to takes me three , and I just put in five and then you know what to expect . I don't feel guilty or get cheated and the client is happy , and sometimes it's a side deal with the manager and they're happy with that because then they know what to expect .
Right , you're happy , but I've never had anyone refuse that .
Yeah , I think that's great and I'm a big believer that experienced professionals should not be penalized . Which paying hourly is because they can do something faster . But I'm just like you and I used almost that exact situation when I was explaining book ghost writing to someone . They're like I would rather pay hourly .
So I know exactly how many hours you worked on it and I was like one . That's not the way this works . But I do a lot of my thinking and planning on books when I'm doing other things .
If I really hit a writer's block situation where I'm like this chapter is going nowhere , I've spent two hours on this , I've done nothing Then I will get in the car and drive one way until the idea comes to me and then I crafted in my head on the way back and then I sat down and write it . So sometimes those are really long days .
Sometimes I end up in Mississippi . I live in Missouri , but that really is how my brain works and it makes a big difference .
¶ Working With Agencies and Finding Value
It's cool that you handle it that way with the agency . Don't penalize yourself because they charge a specific way . That , I guess , is the takeaway for that . Still charge your value . It's all about value people .
Exactly this is the other thing . If agencies don't work for you , then that's fine . Then you should not work with them .
Right .
Each of us has to build a business that works for each of us . That said , I think a lot of writers discount agencies because of a few bad experiences or they heard of a bad experience , or they heard they're low paying . I think that people should be open-minded to finding the great agency and not just discounting them All right .
There you have it from the expert people we are going to link in the show notes to an article of Jennifer's about how she chooses and finds agencies to work with . Then you're going to be on her blog . You should just read it all , because it's solid gold . All right , thank you , jennifer . We'll talk tomorrow on the last question of the week .