Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast . This is Penny Sansevierie and Amy Cornell , and first off , welcome back to the show . If it's your first time listening , we are so glad that you're here . Be sure to subscribe to the show so that you get notified .
We do post episodes every single Friday and the Amazon Author Formula workbook is done , done . I'm very excited . It's probably coming out by the time this show hits . I would say it's probably going to be up for pre-order in the next month or so and then it'll launch a month after that . But I'm really excited about that book .
I really want to dive into the show . So we're not going to do a lot of preamble to this , because this , we were talking about this in the green room and I almost I , I I'm just speechless . Um , so let me set the . Let me just set the stage as an author .
Like we're buying for attention , we want all the good things for our book and then one day your publisher tells , calls you and tells you or emails you and tells you that a major bookstore wants to buy a thousand copies of your book and you were doing the happy dance and then one day you realized that it's all a scam .
Amy , do you want to , do you want to unpack this new author scam ? You know what ? And can I just say I mean , I know I'm not going to spend too much time on this , but , man , this makes me so mad , so mad . I just I have no words to this .
I mean , we spend so much of our time guarding the authors that we work with , and even the ones that we don't , who come to us and just say look , can I ask you a quick question ? And these people , just , I mean , and you know , what they have to realize is that you are destroying author dreams .
I am so sorry we may have to pause the show so I can stay quiet . I am so mad right now . And he needs to do a lap . Yeah , I know , yeah , I need to . Yeah , seriously , I need to do a lap around the , you know , around the block .
Yeah , I mean , because that's I mean , and that's one of the reasons why we do this show is is , yes , both , for sure , to educate authors , but also to protect authors , because every time you turn around there's somebody just trying to take their money . And also , you know , you just devastate people when you do this .
I mean , look , none of these scammers are going to be listening to this show as I'm wagging my finger at them , but this makes me really mad . Amy , do you want to unpack what is actually going on here , because you're the one that discovered this .
Yes . So I read an article that outlined this and it just again it blew my mind at how complex this was . So essentially this happened . It happened to be a Canadian author , but this is going around . So if you think , oh good , I don't live in Canada , like no , so still be careful .
But essentially her publisher , her publishing group and she was not with a major publisher claimed that they got an offer , like Penny said that bookstores it was multi-tiered , which also made it sound more legitimate . So they wanted to buy a thousand copies of the book and host an event . And they also said they could get news coverage .
So a thousand copies of the book , but the author had to provide them . You know , the author had to get the books prepared , so she had to you know , have them printed , pay for shipping , things like that for the event . The event was going to happen . They charged a fee . They were going to charge a fee for the event .
That is not entirely unheard of anymore for really popular venues . So I don't want authors to think like , oh , if somewhere is charging , they're trying to scam me . No , just do your due diligence , make sure that's a legitimate venue and that you know what I mean . No-transcript .
You know , like that is within a range that a lot of authors , if they're thinking they're actually going to sell a thousand copies and have this big event , could wrap their minds around . You know , like , okay , $2,600 , it's not a small fee , but this is going to be a big event and this is going to be my big break and basically .
So again , all this stuff that you know she needed to pay for the event . She needed to pay to have the books printed and shipped , you know , locally . She needed to pay if she wanted to guarantee news coverage for it .
And the reality check came when she actually followed up with the local TV news station to get more information on how they were going to cover it . Is it going to be an interview ? Will it happen before or after ? You know what I mean , which makes sense , like are we going to do this before the event , like during whatever ?
And basically the news station broke it to her and said we don't do paid coverage , this is nothing that we're tracking , this is not a thing , essentially . And that's what finally triggered and she realized oh my gosh , none of this is real .
Oh , that is just so devastating . That is so devastating . And now thousands of dollars , and you know , now , thousands of dollars , thousands of dollars down the , you know , down the road , so yeah , so , so , let me be the first .
So here's , here's the thing , guys , if you're listening to this and you're just like , you're as horrified as we are , which I'm sure you are , and you know , and I hate to say , don't trust anybody , but don't trust anybody .
I , I would say that there , that the problem with this I don't even know where to start with this the problem with this is it is the emotional triggers , right , so the thrill of being recognized , right , for all your hard work , the validation , you're getting a big break . All of this feeds into this , and this is what is so infuriating .
It's what every author hopes for when they decide to write a book , and you know what I mean . You want the recognition . You hope there's some validation along the way . Everybody hopes for a big break , right ? As much as we cover on this show in multiple episodes , trying to keep everybody grounded and realistic about how challenging this industry is and why .
Yeah for sure , exactly .
But I would say also that you know . So here's one of the biggest things to look out for , aside from unrealistic large orders . Now that's a big red flag . That is definitely a big red flag . Not , there was no contract . Typically with these scams , there's no contract right Because they can't do a contract .
Because they I mean , I guess they could do a contract . It's still not worth the paper that it's written on . But , generally speaking , while they go to these lengths to create this multi-tiered scam , they're probably not going to spend the time on a contract . That's just my take .
I also think that weird payment requests so reputable businesses like we take credit cards and then we take ACH , which a lot of like ACH has really replaced writing checks . I used to love I'm sorry , I'm like 900 years old , I used to love writing checks , but ACH or like we never .
We almost never deal with Venmo , we never deal with PayPal , we never deal with weird wire transfers , I mean , unless somebody's like overseas . And part of the reason for us is that when you have a lot of different ways to take payments , it just gets really chaotic . But also these places charge a big fee .
So the majority of reputable publishing industry people don't take it because they take a big fee . So , I think , weird wire transfer requests it's usually always going to be in a wire transfer , because the majority of these scams originate overseas . Mm-hmm , right , yeah , and I also think I mean , amy , like you know , payments to be on television .
Oh , I know , it just makes me that is also a huge red flag . Now they may package it in that , well , that's our fee to pitch you to your local media . Whatever that number was , $2,500 still feels outrageous , you know . And here's the other thing , though , too , is the guarantees of media . Like , oh , we're going to guarantee that . Nobody can guarantee media .
Like , I'm sorry .
No , not even local media .
You know , not even local media .
Yeah , and honestly , even when you're chatting with reporters and things like that , sometimes things get cut . You know , editors cut things . Not all segments make it live . You know what I mean ? There's so many things that go on to where any guarantees with media are really just .
That should be a huge red flag , huge red flag , huge red flag , you know , and then the the large , so the large order that just killed me , oh my gosh . And so she had her books printed and then she had Locally Yep .
Oh yeah , they were . They were the bookstore . Essentially , what it sounded like is that they told her she had to get provide the books , but the bookstore was going to buy them for the event you know what I mean as part of the whole event package , but she had to procure them first . You know what I mean . All this poor woman , I know .
So she's thinking okay , yes , I have to pay to have them printed and then shipped here , but the bookstore is going to buy them from me as part of this event package .
So you know she's out money for a little bit until the event happens , and then she'll break even , at least for the books Right Now . Here's okay . So here's the other piece of this , too , is bookstores almost never buy hugely huge copies , huge numbers of copies of a book , I mean a thousand books . Yeah , exactly , I mean you have to think about that .
Like , be like , be real . I mean I realized sometimes , when you get hit with something like this and you think , oh , my gosh , this is amazing , the last thing that you want to say , say , have to say to yourself , is who's going to want a thousand copies of my book sitting in a bookstore ? Because the answer is basically nobody .
Nobody has that much , nobody has that much storage . But even then , like bookstores , I mean they . So when a bookstore acquires a book , especially from a new author , they may do 10 copies . 10 copies is actually pretty significant . I mean , realize that sounds like a pittance , but it's a pretty significant number .
If somebody orders 50 copies , I'm like , wow , I mean you must really , because you're competing with every single book in that bookstore , every single book .
So they're never going to order . I mean they're never going to order huge quantities like that . No , I mean it's just not good business to put that much money into a single title . That you know what I mean . Yeah , it's because yeah , you know .
And then the other piece of it , though , too , is that they're never going to order . Like , if you're doing a book event , 50 max , but 1,000 ? Right , amy , you and I both know we've done and I'm not saying this to brag at all , but we've done celebrity book signings where we've had like 300 people , you know , or 500 people at the max .
I mean , a thousand is just run . Don't walk from that , because that's just that's crazy .
Right .
They were overreaching with that in the first place . Yeah , yeah , yeah , because there was cause , you did some research on this and there was a .
There was a Sacramento author . Yes , this was one of the and this was just one example . But I mean they had strong PR support . They were known in the area .
I mean , if everything we talk about in all of our shows we're like do this , do this , like all the right things to do if you want to start getting local recognition and start selling locally , doing events , things like that , this author was doing it and they sold 200 copies roughly at their event , I mean , and that's huge , like Penny just said .
You know that is huge , but we really want to put it in perspective . Like all the things are going right . You are known in your community . You have a brand . You know what I mean . Like I'm sure this person , when she was actually approaching bookstores as well , they knew who she was . Yeah , exactly , does that make sense ?
Like this is not like oh , where did this person come from ? Like this would have been somebody whose name would have been easy to if they didn't already know her as a local author . If you looked her up , she'd be all over . You know what I mean . She'd have a website , she'd have a great . You know what I mean . You'd just be seeing things .
So this author already had a lot going for them . So this was , this was something that was net , a natural progression . This , this level of event , and even then , 200 copies sold , which was amazing . That was a huge win .
Yeah , yeah , I mean and I think that , um , so , so I just I'm , I'm floor , I'm just I'm absolutely floored by this .
I think you know , if , if there's , if there's one piece of advice I know we give a lot of advice because we have strong feelings about many things and I have a lot of strong feelings about this Um , if you're , if you're ever questioning it , don't hit first off , don't hesitate to write us and ask us like this .
It's just cause this might be something that you might be hit by , something legitimate , but it could also be yet another new scam that's out there . Because I got a call . I got actually a few calls and I ended up calling the bookstore to let them know .
I got a few calls around from quote unquote from bookstores around the country that they wanted to buy my book in bulk . They didn't give me an exact number , so I don't know if it was a hundred or a thousand , and they wanted to stock it in not only in their store but in all of their quote unquote sister stores , which I mean independent bookstores .
I mean , like Changing Hands in Arizona has a sister store , but the majority of independent bookstores are just a single store . But whatever majority of independent bookstores are just a single store , but whatever . And so they called and said oh , we want to stock your book , we're so excited . Blah , blah , blah .
So I actually called the bookstore and I'm like y'all should . First off , you could absolutely tell it was a scam , right ? Because the guy could barely pronounce I'm sorry , I don't mean to sound like , but their English was not their first language and you could definitely tell that that's that had kind of like a scam vibe to it .
So I called the bookstore and I said hey , you should know that this is happening . I mean , I said maybe you have like a call center , like a cheap call center or something that you're doing this . And she said no , I had no idea this was even going on . I'm like , well , now you know . So I don't know , I don't know what you could do .
But I think the first piece of this is is you have to verify , verify , verify , verify , and one of the ways that you can do that , obviously , is to get the name of the bookstore , contact the bookstore . You know what I mean , I just . And then , like I said , I mean the contract as well .
I mean there has to be a contract for something especially at this magnitude . There has to be a contract in place for this .
Yes , and I think it was also . Yeah , I agree with you , penny , I think it was also suspect that this one entity was speaking for the store , for the news , for all that stuff .
That's very , that's fishy , you know , unless somebody approaches you , like you said , with a contract that details like we work with these local stores , we work with you know what I mean and that could still be a scam just because they throw somebody's name out there , like Penny's experience .
But still , like the fewer details , the more suspicious you should be for sure .
Right , Exactly . And didn't you say that ? Or wasn't it in that article that they were asking for all the money up front ?
Yes . So like , yeah , the news coverage , that was something that you had to pay for up front , well ahead of the event . All these things you had to . You know what I mean . The fee for the event had to be paid for well ahead of the event , like before anything was booked , before dates were chosen . You know what I mean . It's like oof .
So , yeah , definitely anybody . Any pressure to pay up front for something that has not been confirmed through the sources directly . So , like Penny said , contact the bookstore , contact the media outlet they claim that you're going to get coverage from or that they're going to bring out to the event .
You know , do all of those things first before any money changes hands . You know , because even in that case , you know , you just you never know . And to your point earlier , penny , about the local media you know , maybe it was in the fine print that they were just going to pitch local media , but that's also something to be careful about too .
You know , understand exactly what you're getting , because we see that a lot with a lot of these .
You know we've done shows on film and Netflix scams and things like that , where authors will come to us and say I'm getting a Netflix deal , or I'm going to hear from a Netflix person when in reality , if you read the fine print , you're just paying somebody a ton of money to fake , convert your book into a you know a script and then quote , unquote , pitch
it to the right people , yes , but authors see that you know like , because again you want it to be your big break . So you miss those details that say this is not a sure thing , this is pretty much a pitch . You know what I mean .
Right , exactly , and you and you know I mean listen , with AI , chat , gpt can turn your book into a screenplay . You don't have to pay somebody to . I mean , I'm not suggesting this is not me telling you this is how you do it , but you know what I mean Somebody saying they're going to .
There was a , there was a company , and they actually wanted us to send the business . I'm like , do I look like I just fell off the turnip truck to you ? They , um , they wanted to , so they , they would produce a book video like a little one minute trailer for $20,000 , amy , and then they were going to use that trailer to get them a movie deal .
I'm like , are you ? And the guy kept emailing me and he was . Finally I told him I'm like , buddy , listen , yeah , really , I mean you , you need , you need some to make some better life choices , because you were , oh no , but this really works and these are who we've worked with .
And I'm like I don't know any of these people or any of these movies , maybe like , maybe they were big hits on some rando Island where one person lives or something . Right , right , I mean it . Just it's really . So I think that ask good questions , verify writer beware is a really good site and there is a contact , there's a contact portal in there .
Victoria Strauss has done just amazing work for years and years and years . There's a contact portal in there that you can actually ask if they've heard of it or you know what they think , or something . The service that writer beware does for authors is just tremendous .
Um , so we're , we're you know we're always really , we're always really grateful for the stuff that they feature , because now more than ever , yeah , there's just there's so so many ways for um that authors can give up their money to something that is never going to net them anything . It just makes me so mad .
And , like you said , we get emails from clients , past clients all the time that run things by us , and not all of them are total scams , but just some of them are presented in a way that makes them seem like you're getting more than what you really are .
Yeah , so it might be a legitimate company , but deciphering what you're actually going to walk away with for your investment is different , you know , than what they present superficially . Yeah , yeah , and so that's always something , too , that you know . I try to help with when they , when they send things our way and go is this really worth my time , like ?
Is this ? Is this appropriate for me ? You know ?
Yeah , exactly yeah , and we always appreciate that . And I and I have to say I've never seen in in my 24 plus years in being in business , I've never seen as many author scams as there have , as we have seen in the last year . Yeah , it's wild , truly , it's just , it's really . Yeah , it's really crazy .
So you know , I know that it's this , know that this is kind of a little bit of a discouraging show . It's not meant to be , it's just meant to be more of a . We're here to help you share the show with some author friends that you know or a writer's group , just again , not to promote the fact that we want everybody to listen to this podcast .
But forewarned is forearmed . So you know you got , you got to protect yourself and we don't want anybody falling for this , for this crazy bookstore scam and you know bookstore scam people , if you're listening to this podcast , seriously shame on you for for stealing an author's dreams and their money . Yeah , yeah .
So anyway , thank you so much for listening to the show . Again , make sure to subscribe so that you get notified every time that there is a new episode which we can publish every week and share the show with somebody that you know um , that could be helped by it and leave a review or send us your review . We love reviews . We always check them .
We love hearing from you . Thank you so much for tuning in . We'll see you next time . Bye-bye .