One of the questions I'm always asked is how do I get through this? And it's really tough, and you feel it, it hurts, and then you put your shoulders back, you put your head up, you'll hug your friends and your family, and you just keep going. So as you know that commissioners decide what's gonna happen, and then there's always this plan to send letters and to talk to them and kind of get a feel for where they're going. And last time we did that, we were so helpful.
The night before we thought, oh, this is it, so hopeful and it turned out really crappy. So tonight, based on some of the information, we're not so hopeful. So we're gonna let Laurie say that prayer and we're gonna just keep going. Okay, Lisa, can you come over so we can all kind of be close.
Dear Heavenly Father, we ask Lord to do only what you can do that you would bring us the outcome that we want. We ask that you would speak with the people on this board who are gonna make this life altering decision for Leo and Chrissy. We ask Lord that you would speak to their hearts, that you would give them that, knowing in the bottom of their soul that they would be doing the right thing by granting him parole. We just ask and pray, and we are begging on our knees that it is the outcome that
we so desire. We love you, Lord, we praise you, and we pray this in your son Christ's name. Amen.
Amen, do you hear my mind? I have to hide my feelings saw roosetemps sorry lists in this valle te na see ralation o my long water rage, das rash to the one who's holding.
The star.
To the warm solding stop to the warming sort.
This is a special bonus episode of Bone Valley. The day before Leo's parole hearing, Scott Kup and I had one last chance to meet with the commissioners who would decide if Leo was going to be granted parole. Going into these meetings, we had some insight about where the commissioners might stand. The commission's chair, Melinda Kunrod, had been asking Leo's lawyers questions that seemed to indicate she believes in Leo's innocence. The second Commissioner, David Wyant, is a
former police officer from Polk County. We heard he'd had a close relationship with the former state Attorney Jerry Hill, and he'd be the commissioner least receptive toward granting Leo parole. That left Commissioner Richard Davison the third vote, the wild card, the one who would probably passed the tie breaking vote in determining Leo's fate. So we came to Tallahassee for a meeting with Davison just twenty four hours before the official ruling would be made at Leo's May third parole hearing.
Kelsey was outside waiting for me and Scott when we walked out of.
The meeting.
The car.
No, it's really bad and he's not gonna talk right now.
I can't.
I'm sorry, fucking disaster.
He's been talking to the tenth and went over and he said, I've listened to both sides now and I'm just not convinced he's innocent. And I'm going to vote for twenty four months at Everglades and he says, maybe they'll be an epiphany tomorrow, but that's the way I'm voting. He started talking to me about bloodstains, and it's just fucking very clear that the state is talking to him and giving him all sorts of bullshit about the evidence. He goes, where's the blood. There's no blood. Where's the
blood at the canal? I was like, it's fucking there. You want to see the picture. FDL says it in the transcript, that's where her blood is. And he's arguing that shit with me, and I just you know, he said, this is not about guilt or innocence anyway, but he says, I'm a creature of the system, and I have to believe that what the courts have sucided is correct.
And the courts are saying he's guilty.
And he said, I didn't hear one thing in your podcast that was inaccurate to me. Okay, well, then you know he's innocent. What I just never forget the words he said, I'm a creature of the system the courts have ruled, and he's not willing to acknowledge that there are mistakes made, which you know, he did write the report to give clemency to the Groven Force, so he knows that mistakes are made and just won't do it. And you know, I mean, I'm just imagining that Wyant
is in the same boat. We saw Wyant in the hallway, asked him if you would meet with us. He said, I'm busy, I'm busy, give me a call my cellphone and just walked away. Twenty four months.
That I everglades twenty four months?
Two fucking years?
Why two years?
Well, the thing he did say, unless I have an epiphany, that's gonna be my vote. And so we just talked about keep an open mind for the epiphany.
But I don't know, was the worst meeting I've ever been in my life.
We gave Scott a minute to process what had just happened, and then we got in the car with him and left, knowing that we'd be back the next morning for the hearing.
Two years.
So let's think about that.
You don't give a flying fuck whether this man is guilty or innocent.
That's what it boils out.
He has to respect.
Scott knew he owed Leo an update about the meetings. He tried to get Leo on the phone to tell him about what just happened, but he couldn't get through. Scott forwarded me the email he sent him. Hey Davison says he listened to the podcast, but he is still inclined to vote extension to Everglades for the lifers. We may still be able to convince him to straight parole to Noah's and that's what we're working on now and.
Going into the evening.
We're still at the worst case scenario of transfer to Everglades. Please try to hang in there. We are not finished by any stretch. I will keep sending you emails through the evening as I get more info. I still know God has this. I pray you agree, Scott. After we'd met with the commissioner, as I got a text from Chrissy just said I need to talk and then yea, she knows Leo must have got that thing and knew it and called her. I'm gonna have to just give her some hope.
I don't know.
I just can't.
I can't just tell her it's came over because I don't know it's over. I mean, it's not hasn't been voted on yet.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, because he's ready, she says, I prefer not to record.
Okay, let me just turn this off. Then sorry, she never does this, so she's gonna be upset.
Okay, here we go, crazy, Hey, where are you right now?
Called her, and.
She's as upset as I've ever heard her in knowing her. She was just crying and venting. She was frustrated. It's okay, you don't have to apologize for anything. No, you don't apologize, Chrissy. If I know this, I know, it's okay.
You can do it to me.
It's okay. The stress about this and just knowing that you have another defeat coming, I know, can't even imagine what that's like. It's I don't know, it's a really hard place to be in and to hear somebody just desperate and you know, in tears.
It's just.
Brutal. And you know, I think there's probably some hope that, like this story is going to change everything, and you know kind of didn't I know exactly.
I'm sorry.
She's she said, I'm in desperation mode. What else is there? Someone else? We got to try something different.
We're all sitting here thinking, just scrambling and trying to do last minute things. And is there is there a magic thing to that was said that that will change their minds? I mean, if you have any ideas about that, I don't know. She said, Well, then we need a miracle. We have to pray for a miracle, and you know, well, that's all well and good, but I'm just thinking there's not gonna be any miracles in that f court building tomorrow.
Man, that has gone through the motions tomorrow is gonna suck.
Yeah, And just seeing people who are like hopeful and us standing around knowing what's gonna happen should I'm feeling it now. It's just this home court advantage that they have. They have, it's all stacked in their favor and reason logic, the right thing doesn't really matter. Winning matters. I can't distance myself from me like it should be just like, well, this is the story I'm reporting. It's unfortunate for all the people arout like no, we're in it, and I mean, I don't know what to do.
That's you know, we're still reporting on everything. But it's just how do you not feel this?
Man?
I just know what's wrong.
Hi.
I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics that impact us all. So please go to lava for
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Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems, including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon Angelos is one of those change makers. At the age of twenty three, Weldon was arrested for a first time offense of selling
weed to a confidential informant. At the time, he was a budding musician spending time with artists like Tupac Snoop Dogg, Pink, and Gnase. His entire life was ahead of him when he was sentenced to a mandatory fifty five years in federal prison without the possibility of early release. After serving thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led to him getting officially pardoned.
Upon his release, he founded The Weldon Project, a nonprofit working to create better outcomes for those still in prison that funds social change and provides financial aid for all those who were still serving time for cannabis related offenses. Weldon Angelos is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to drive solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and criminal justice. To learn more about the War on Drugs, listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts. The night before the hearing, we had dinner reservations at a restaurant in Tallahassee with Chrissy Ashley, her two baby boys, and some of their close friends who had made the trek up to Tallahassee to support them. The dinner was supposed to be about hope, final chance to come together and center themselves for the next day, but after the news from the meetings, the mood was somber. Leo's best friend and bandmate, Kevin Herrick
his family showed up to be with Chrissy. They've known Leo and Chrissy for decades. Kevin's sister Laurie led everyone in prayer.
We ask right now for comfort for Leo. We can't even imagine Lord, what he's going through right now. I pray that you surround him right now, this evening tomorrow morning with people who love him, who can lift him up and bring him comfort. And we ask that you bring him comfort Lord, as we know only you can do in times like this when we feel that you know, everything is out of our control, but we know that everything goes through your hands first. So we are accepting that.
We are, as Chrissy said, lifting our heads high, and we are leaving this at the altar.
High shudders back.
We're okay, We're okay, yes we are, We're good.
This is gonna work.
You know.
Those are the boys came in Leo's grandsons and just like he know, I wanted to hug from one of those kids. I just wanted to hold those kids. So that was for me. Yeah, you know, I definitely understand why so many people.
Are religious in this world because if you have no hope this and you got to believe in something and this is it and it's happening right in front of me, and.
Uh, I'm all in.
While we sat at dinner with Chrissy, Scott was sending me messages. He was working to pull whatever strings he could to trigger that epiphany. You know, Scott also.
Recognized that, you know, we need to rawther kitchen sink at this and pull out all the stops everything, and you know, we agreed.
We need Jonathan here.
Senator Jonathan Martin had already told us that he thought Leo was innocent and should not only be paroled, he should be exonerated. He's also the chair of the Florida Senate's Committee on Criminal Justice and has oversight of the Florida Commission on a Fender Review. Those three appointed officials who'd be making the decision to grant Leo parole or not. His presence at the hearing might be Leo's last hope.
If he could appear, you know, and with him and Scott speaking together about this, I think that if that could happen, that might be the Hail Mary pass. We need something really powerful, something that was kind of like a game changer.
You know.
Davidson talked about wanting to have some kind of epiphany, and I said, that's what we need, something so powerful that it's going to change the vote.
But this is the last week of the legislative session in Tallahassee, and Senator Martin has to be present to vote, so showing up at a parole hearing might not even be possible.
He had said early on, I'll do whatever I can, if I can, if I'm available. So I texted him a couple of times. He wasn't responding to the text. I didn't read anything negative into it. I just was like, he's inundated, and I get it. You know, he's got major responsibilities.
Ah.
I called him last night.
Left a voicemail, and I left a pretty long text was basically help, please help, because I was panicked. And within fifteen minutes of that text, I got a text from Jonathan very short, I'll be there at nine o'clock, and then I had to text back that we're not scheduled till ten, so then start panicking again.
The next morning, Scott pulled into the parking lot for the hearing. He didn't know whether or not Senator Martin.
Would really be there. He's pulling in.
Right next to me.
At the same time, he goes, I'm gonna go sit in the front row. See if that helps.
You can't miss him. He's like six seven six eight, That's what he did.
Senator Martin promised to make an appearance, but with the timing and a schedule. He might not be able to stay until Leo's case was called, but he was promising Scott he'd stay for as long as he could.
I was sitting there and like the dread really hit me. I was so aware of my blood pressure, like it was just through the roof.
And then the commissioner, the chair announced that we're going to take a short three minute break and we're going to come back and we're going to start with the Schofield case, and we're going to do that one first. And you could tell there was some buzz in the crowd because everybody was there for Leo's case.
And it just made me think, all right, three minutes, that's the countdown, Okay.
Keep ready. And then when the hearing actually started, seeing all of our familiar faces around, and I don't know, I feel like I was worried about you.
I didn't even know what I was supposed to do except sit there and just suffer. And that was that was the hard part, just feeling like, well, I'm just gonna be watching this and I know where it's going.
It's just gonna be painful, all right.
I'll go ahead and use meaning to order for the full commission is ten am. We're back on the record. If everyone could please take your seat, if you are not going to be speaking.
Seeing the commissioners walk in and like you know, making eye contact with them and knowing like that they know what I'm thinking, and like I know what they're thinking, and there's just like that recognition and I don't know that that felt really intense.
I felt.
I was like, oh, why did we choose to sit in the front row. I feel like very vulnerable and.
Exposed right now.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I'm just it's just a totally helpless feeling, like, you know, after all we've done and everything, and it was just like it's really difficult to sit there and like maintain any kind of hope.
So we're now in the full portion.
Of the dock.
People're all three commissioners will be voting. East side gets ten minutes in which to make your presentation. We'll start with the supporters, followed by anyone in opposition the investigators recommending an extension. And this is on the leoscope. Okase I had to number thirty one on page sixteen and made proceed.
At that point, I see Scott move towards the podium. I see Jonathan sitting at the front table, and I just remember thinking, they know it's desperation time, they know where things stand, and so they're not going to hold anything back.
And I just had that feeling that it was just going to be not your typical parole hearing.
Good morning, commissioners.
Thank you.
My name is Scott Cupp. I'm an attorney representing Leo Schofield, obviously, but there's many, many other attorneys. A lot of them are here today, and I would just like to mention them.
Briefly.
I was facing his back. I couldn't see his eyes, but I was watching the commissioners and there was like this anticipation. I could sort of see it in their eyes through me.
The first thing I would like you to hear from is a letter written by Jesse Sam who's Michelle Schofield's brother. It was written for the last parole hearing, which was in twenty twenty. For some reason, and maybe the state will tell us here today, it was not read. I have no idea why it wasn't read. I think it was part of the record, but I want to read it now. Make it part of the record. January two twenty twenty in reference to Leo R. Schofield prole hearing
one eight twenty. To whom it may concern, I'm not going to attend the prole hearing of Leo R. Schofield. However, I do ask you to read this letter and take my comments into consideration as you make a decision about granting Leo parole. I was sixteen at the time of my sister's murder. I never knew the details of the case. Because of my age, I had assumed the detectives and the state involved had substantial evidence beyond a shadow of
a doubt to convict Leoschofield first degree murder. Over the years, I've done some research and have found many inconsistencies and discrepancies in the investigation and the trial. These have led to many questions about the state's handling of my sister's murder. I'm not one hundred percent convinced Leo is guilty of this crime. In fact, for my research, he could be innocent.
It just seems likely you got the wrong guy. I do not have confidence in the conviction of Leo Schofield, and I support his request for parole.
Thank you.
Jesse Song At this time, I would like to have Senator Jonathan Martin speak.
And then Jonathan Rose. And you know when he stands up at the podium, it looks like the podium's up to his waist and he's just staring at the commissioners intensely.
Good morning.
My name is Jonathan Martin. I've known Scott Cup for many years. I met him when I was a prosecutor. I've handled Holmes cases. Everything that I've seen about this case turns my stomach. I don't know why Leo Schofield wasn't released years ago when he was before this board. You have the opportunity to release him immediately. He wasn't released last time because he wasn't remorseful. You cannot be remorseful for something you did not do. It's not your
job to determine guilt or innocence. But if you are going to consider whether somebody is remorseful and whether they should be released today or should have been released years ago, you have to at least crack the transcript. You have to at least wonder why the fingerprints of a serial killer were inside Michelle's car And we're never tested, and we're never presented to the jury in Polk County over thirty years ago. I was five years old when Leos
Goofield started doing time for this murder. I stand by the criminal justice system here in the state of Florida. We're one of the best on the planet. But there's a whole lot of doubt right now about how good we are. You guys have the chance today to fix that. You have the chance to restore credibility to a system that thousands of people.
Know.
An injustice happened, and it's continuing every single second. The Leoscofield remains behind bars.
Thank you.
Next, I'd like to read a portion of Leo's statement in is a pearl packet that you.
All have, but I just like the highlight of part of it.
Leo's letter I thought was really beautiful, really powerful.
First, I understand the p is not based upon guilt or innocence, but solely a function of grace from this commission. Having shared that, I must say he.
Talked about why he can't show remorse, and he talked about the deals he'd been given to get out of prison and the fact that he stood on his innocence it worked against him.
Ask only that you consider the fact that I have stood on my innocence in the face of plea agreements that would have allowed me to go home many years ago without parole or even probation, a fact of the record that is known by the state.
And I do believe that Leo's words made a difference in there. If it's submitted to them, maybe they read it, maybe they don't. Maybe they think, oh, all these letters are the same, and they skim it. But Scott was saying, you're not going to skim this. I'm going to tell you what he said, and it's important that you know.
This of innocence he or she does not actually possess in hopes of convincing a commission that doesn't weigh guilt or innocence to let them go based upon that innocence. That simply does not make sense. The only right conclusion that can be arrived at with my situation is that I am forced to maintain my innocence simply because I'm actually and factually innocent.
Leo Schofield.
Innocent.
Innocent innocence. That's been an elephant in the room for way too long. It was the elephant in the room in twenty twelve. It was the elephant in the room in twenty fifteen. It was the elephant in the room in twenty twenty. We'll look around. The elephant's gone. Okay, it's out there. He is innocent. What I'm asking you to do is to search your heart. This isn't difficult. I think you all know what's gone on hereveral of
you I believe know he is in fact innocent. One of the things that disturbed me in our meetings was the issue that guilt and innocence is not in our purview. It should always be in our purview. I don't care find a way to make it part of your purview. This man does not deserve one more night in prison. He's been in there for thirty five years. I suspect you're going to hear from the state from another of the victims. I do not disparage anything that any of
them might say. I just hope you keep it into perspective. He's been grieving for thirty five years with the added thing of giving up his life for something he didn't do. He grieves every single day for Michelle Schofield. Please, I implore you do not extend him two years for yet another program. Send him to the Noah's house and do it now. Thank you very much.
Thank you everyone for being here. I know some of you travel great distance, so thank you. I'm not going to now move to opposition if.
You would like to speak now.
It was the state's turn to make its case. We weren't sure if someone from the State Attorney's office would even show up, but they did send a representative, Assistant State Attorney Jacob Or.
I've written or over the years. He handles the office's pr but he's not the face we were expecting. He doesn't have the kind of history or emotional connection to Leo's case that Jerry Hill and Victoria Avalon have.
You can rest oar six now morning, mister Oregon.
Thank you commissioners again.
My name is Jacob Or.
I'm an assistant state attorney in the tenth Circuit. We just heard a lot of talk about justice and what is justice. I became a prosecutor fifteen years ago, and in that time I have learned that you cannot pursue justice unless you first pursue truth. In this case, That's what the court systems have been doing for me many years. I've told others I think this is the most reviewed
case in the history of Polk County. And I really don't know if that's true, but I think it might be because we've looked at this, we've litigated this, and every time we go to court, we relitigate and we re review the case based on the actual transcripts and the actual available evidence, and every one of those reviews results in the same outcome that there's overwhelming evidence in support of the guilty verdict that was handed down many
years ago. But that's not really why y'all are here today. You're here today to decide if this inmate is going to get out of jail. And I won't go too much in detail into the facts of the case because I know you've heard some of them before, and you know there was a heinous murder committed. But you got to compare that with what has been a long time of being a very good inmate. I'm telling you about truth, and I think we need to recognize the fact that
he's been a very good inmate. But you know, the law doesn't allow being a good inmate alone to allow for release, You've got to do some determination of what risk is posed to the public and how he will conduct himself if he gets out, and I know you've got some guidelines. I'll help you with that, but that's going to be a challenge for you. I think in this case, even the victim's family appears to be split
on whether or not he should be out. And I think you're going to hear from someone in a moment. And to ask this from me from the State Attorney's office on behalf of the state of Florida, is that you'd treat this inmate the same as any other, that you would do an honest review of the record, apply your guidelines and then make your decision. And if you'll do it that way and ignore all the show that's going on along with it, and just do an honest review of this record, then I think you'll make a
just decision. I want to yield whatever time I have left.
Two And then they mentioned that at the end of his presentation, which was pretty short, it was only a couple of minutes, they mentioned that they had somebody from the family, and that someone turned out to be Michelle's other brother, Ricky Som.
Thank you very much, all right? Do we have the victim online? Mister Som, I don't know if you can hear me. But you just pressed our six to get through.
I'm here, Yes, go ahead, Okay. So I'm Ricky Song, I'm I guess I'm the brother of bunch of this sister that was killed, basically, and I just want to say that a lot of people have, let's just say, distorted the truth of this case, and that I was there. I was a kid. My brother might write in and say that he was too young to understand anything. I was the older brother. I was not too young to
not understand everything. So there's a lot of miss We'll say, there's a lot of misinformation from this twenty twenty TV show, and a lot of the things that Leo and his family have said had definitely been not truth. It's their truth, and that's okay. But at the end of the day, Leo did not come to my house and talk to my dad that night. Leo did not this, Leo did not do a lot of those things because I was there,
I lived it. I know where my sister was. You know, some people have asked me, you know, did Leo kill my sister? And you know, I believe in God, and I believe in the courts and the courts got it right. And at the end of the day, you know, if Leo has to sit in prison for forty five years or fifty years because he tortured my sister, he mentally tortured her, he violently tortured her, at the end of the day, he should stay in jail for the rest of life period, regardless of where this case, what the
case is pending on right now at this moment. But from my point of view is that this isn't very emotional to me. It's mostly justice for someone that deserves it, and I believe that the court's got a right. I mean, I'll get off the phone and let you guys finish up. Sorry for taking every time.
We appreciate you calling in. Thank you for your input. All right, anyone else in opposition wishing to speak? All right, hearing NOTTA, we will proceed with the vote, starting with Commissioner Davison.
Yes, in the matter of Leo Schofield. I've had the opportunity to review this case, and it's entirety. I listened very closely to the testimony, both in support and opposition.
I've had a.
Series of meetings prior to today. I've listened to certain documentary items that have been put together on behalf of Mississcofield. I've reviewed documents.
That are.
Commissioner Davison was the first to announce his decision. He recommended that Leo Bi transferred to Everglade's Correctional to participate in the lifer's program for twenty four months two years at another prison before he'd be eligible for parole again.
Is to agree with the commission Investigator. I have a twenty four month extension based upon good cause and exceptional circumstance to allow the offender to complete programs that contain self betterment and transitional components. I would set a new ppr D at June twenty four five, and.
So they would reestablish his parole for two years. And it's exactly what he told us at our meeting, and after listening to all that, it was pretty clear he just had not changed his opinion.
At all, hearing that nothing that had been said before him had changed his mind. I mean, I thought it was done right then and there.
Thank you, Commissioner Wyatt, thank you ma'am, thank you all for your testimony here today. And to echo the words of Commissioner Davis and I to have reviewed this case in its entirety and had several meetings regarding the case of mister Schofield.
Commissioner Wyant went next, and then he was recommending eighteen months, so he brought it down from two years to a year and a half.
I also note that mister Schofield has had a clean record as it relates to dr for many years and has accomplished some things while in prison. My concern is to make sure he is ready to go if given the opportunity, so I believe that he also needs some further program participation. I agree with the FIUCTP program referral. I have an eighteen month extension rather than twenty four based on the good cause and exceptional circumstances, and that being the participation.
And then the Chair Commissioner kuon Rod. She went next, but by this point it was kind of over, but at least there was the It went from twenty four months to eighteen months. That was something different. And then Commissioner kuon Ron and her response and decision was really nuanced.
I'd like to say that our role is not to determine guilt or innocence. I know that's the subject of a lot of people right now. I reviewed all the records, and I can tell you that I think the State Attorney's Office with the tenth Judicial Circuit has done their job. They reviewed the evidence and they made the call based
on the evidence that they received. The fact is that mister Schofield has been tried by a jury of his tears, and his conviction has been upheld by numerous courts, and that's what we as commissioners are facing, and we have to respect what has been done in the court system. However, our job is to look at a person's overall record and determine whether or not they are suitable for parole, whether they pose a risk to society, and whether or not they have a good transitional program so that they
can be successful. My vote is to parole.
Commissioner koon Rod votes for parole. She supports Scott Cupp's request for Leo's immediate release to a halfway house, but.
The two commissioners have agreed to extend. I would to avoid a three way split. I would move to Commissioner Wyant's eighteen month extension, and I would ask if either commissioner would consider a one year next interview.
Days I'm sure it and look, in this case, if you feel comfortable, I would acquiesk to a twelve month extension rather than eighteen. I just like I said, he's been in a long time and he's going to need program aiming to be successful. I understand and support as overwhelming, and that's important in my decision. But I believe he does need some time in the CTPFIU program to prepare him. So if you're willing to actu as, I would move down to one year in the program with an effect of March twenty.
Four, and very quickly right away, Commissioner Wyant said, I accept that, and so it went to twelve months.
I will move to that position, and I agree with the referral to the CTP program. And I also just want to make one more comment. I've spoken with a lot of people in this case, including Jerry Hill, and I have to say I've known him for a long time. He's an honorable man. He is a man of great integrity, and he represents the ten Circuit well and I respect his opinion. I value his opinion. I spoke to him about this case before I came to my decision, and
I spoke with the current state attorney. I think everybody's doing their job, and I just wanted to put that on the record. So our final decision is to move mister Schofield's case to June twenty four, twenty twenty four, with a next interview date of March twenty four, and referral to the ctp FIU program at Everglade's ci And thank you everyone for taking your time to be here. We appreciate it.
I I just needed to step outside for a number two.
After the decision, Chrissy, Ashley, Scott Copp, Senator Martin, everyone who showed up to support Leo, we all left the hearing.
Room and walked outside.
Chrissy and Ashley were crying and being comforted by friends and family. There was anger and frustration and concerns about how Leo would take the news.
You can't trust that.
How do you think your dad's gonna respond to the news? O.
This is not gonna be good. This is not gonna be a good thing.
When we went outside, we also talked to some parolees. They'd shown up to support some of the other people who were up for parole that day, but after Leo's decision, they saw that people were upset, and they came over to talk to us. If you got that was your decision, and you got twelve months.
If I got this decision, I'll be stat I have guys that friends that have been out fifty years or forty seven years. Anybody will pay you when the life scense is getting that program. You can't get no better. My name is Gregory bullet Ard.
Appreciate it, blessed?
Did we send to that program?
There was no immediate consensus about what had happened in that hearing room and what it meant and how to feel about it. It wasn't the scenario Leo's friends and family had been hoping for, but it wasn't the worst case scenario either. Everyone seemed to be moving through waves of varying emotions.
But I didn't know, I did.
I didn't know Johnathan was gonna I'm glad he did.
But Jonathan was going to come and speak like that.
He was great.
Didn't take that. Oh that was tremendous.
So yeah, let me ask you to answer your question.
I think I was outraged. And then when she said what she said, and I'm like.
I thought she was going to backpeddle there for a minute.
Yeah, I was gonna I was like, what the heck's happening?
And then when he went down, my whole, my whole thought just shifted.
I think, I'm not trying to put I'm not trying to put like a good spin on it and make everyone feel better. But they conceded that he's been a great it made it's the first time they've done that. They didn't talk about the facts of the case. It Oh, it was the first time they've done that. So I think it's a lot of important steps in the right direction to put him on the Clyde path if everything goes well.
To It was also, in many ways, a reunion of sorts. All these people who'd worked on Leo's case through its various stages across three and a half decades were standing together sharing the moment. Don Morris, Richard Bartman, Pat McKenna, Seth Miller. Familiar faces were everywhere. Some were reconnecting for the first time in years.
You know, like it's like you're talking the team back together again. You always had crazy.
Getting crazier.
I like it.
I like, the last time we're altogether in front of Judge.
Yeah, the last time thirteen years ago something like that ten or nine.
And among the familiar faces, there were new faces too.
Talking to Gilbert just.
A listener and support our Yeah, it's.
I feel like it's better than nothing.
Everyone seemed to gather around the attorneys who knew Leo's case best and who knew how to put what just happened into context.
I mean, he never got anything before today. They never they had their footspin on the guests for thirty five years. So the idea that somebody would come in and not just flash autopsy pictures, which is what they've been doing for all these reviews, and that kind of argument is a testament to what you and Kelsey did. It's a testament to what Scott has done all these years. It's a testament to what Seth did, all the people that have worked on the case. But I mean you and
got us to this point. That brought the kind of attention, that got their attention, that got the whole world's attention, that brought pressure to bear, and now he's got a shot at release, which he never had before. I mean he's never had anything to look forward to.
Nothing.
I mean they've slammed doors in his face. The courts have done it, the parole boards have done it, like Seth saying, this is the first time anybody did anything other than this say screw you, which is thirty five years. What's what we've been hearing so well, it's not what everybody wants, and it's not what should have been done, and it's not ultimately justice, it's.
It's it's a.
Step he's never received before. And from what's set saying it, you know, it looks pretty good where he's going, the program he's going. You know, maybe next year we're in a place we want to be.
Over the course of an hour or so, the collective mood was beginning to shift. Leo's grandsons were running around barefoot in the grass. Heels were kicked off and ties removed.
So I can't tell you if I'm excited or not.
You know, by I'm excited about this is one of the next stepping stones from getting out.
But we're not going to stop here.
We're hoping to push for exoneration for sure.
So slowly the reasons for hope and gratitude began to accumulate their Senator Jonathan Martin, who used his authority as an elected representative to speak about injustice and innocence. His speech was a departure from the usual statements heard in parole hearings. The state's approach was different this time. There was no pounding on the podium, no autopsy photos, no comments about Leo's lack of remorse. Instead, Jacob Orr pointed
to court rulings and procedures. He even referred to the heinous murder of Michelle Schofield without saying exactly who was responsible for the crime, and he acknowledged Leo's outstanding record of his time in prison. One of the commissioners actually voted for parole. Commissioner Kunrod was prepared to send Leo directly to a halfway house, something that we've been told never happens. And Commissioner Wyant, the former Polk County cop
we'd completely written off. He could have easily agreed to Davison's twenty four month recommendation, but by deciding on eighteen months instead, he opened the conversation to compromise, and he agreed to reducing the recommendation to twelve months, and really it might not even be twelve full months. Leo's parole process will begin again in March of twenty twenty four.
It was outrage and then disappointment, and then confusion and then release.
Take a picture ish.
Yeah, so okay, but then some of the other well, technically this was a denial of parole. There were signs if you look closely, something has changed. We all began to recognize it. Leo won't be released tomorrow. But for the first time, the very first time, there's an end insight.
I you know, I'm.
It's like weird because I'm like happy, but I'm not happy, but I'm I'm happy. It could have been much worse. It could have been much worse.
While we were all standing out there, Chrissy was able to get on the phone with She asked for privacy and stepped away to deliver the news.
I wanted to be the first one to tell him, and long story short, I was able to talk to him. I told him what happened, and uh, he said, it's nothing but a meatball. We're gonna put gas in the motorcycle, keep it running. We got this, and then we got this. Yeah, nothing about a meatball.
We got this.
There's a lot of work, a lot of a lot of things at the eleventh hour, right, I think all those prayers worked.
Yeah, we just have to keep gassing the motorcycle.
Right.
Yes, this is not what we wanted, but this is what we have, and this is what we're gonna do. Right. Shoulders, shoulders back, head, Hi, We're gonna do it. Rita, rita, Lourie.
I spoke to Leo.
He's cool, he's good, he's good, he said, you'll love this, Lourie, he said nothing. I'm better meet while. Just keep gassing that motorcycle.
Yeah, baby, bring it on.
After the hearing, Kelsey and I returned to our Tallahassee airbnb along with our producers Karra and Britt to get started on this episode. We worked through the afternoon and evening and into the night, never straying too far from the phone. We were anticipating a call from Leo, but it wasn't until the next morning when he was able
to call. I just have a quick question for you, because we talked to Chrissy right after she talked to you, and she was smiling and beaming, and she said, Leo said this is a meatball, and we didn't quite understand that.
What does that mean?
A meatball?
Yeah, that's my little sarcastic way of saying this is we can handle this. We've we've been up against much, much bigger giants, and this is not I really wanted her rather than her see this as a hurdle. You know it will become The Paro Commission has really changed that part of the narrative.
For me.
It's no longer a hurdle. This is I think the message they were sending to us is that we care and we want you to succeed, and this is the way we think that you succeed best. And so I told Chrissy, I said, an all a hard thing we've had to do in the thirty five years we've been in here. This is a meatball.
We got this.
It's no problem at all. We're going to be able to do this. She was obviously a little emotional, a lot emotional. It was hard for me to read her voice right away. You know, I'm pretty good at being able to detect in her voice whether something is good or bad, and you know, she was so emotional yesterday that I wasn't really sure if it was good or bad.
But she said to me, I'm wanting to listen to the end, and that's always a warning that there's going to be something in between now in the end that I might not like. But I needed to get to the end before I could really weigh it, so I did. I just remained quiet, and she kind of broke it down to me, step by step everything that happened, and basically told me that, you know, we were going to end up going Eviglades instead of the halfway house. My
first inclination. Because she was so emotional and I could hear the kids in the background, I knew that no matter what I was feeling at the time, I just I had to make sure that everybody there was all right. I had to make sure my wife was all right. And so I wanted her to know that I'm okay, and I want everybody to know that I'm okay. When when when mister Orr was given an opportunity to speak, you know, for the state, there wasn't any more of
this lambastic assassination of my character. Accusations that were you know, flown around in previous hearings and and basically you know, telling the commission, we want you to treat them as
you would any other inmate and stuff. I can live with that, and I can appreciate that, you know, because I cannot tell you what damage it does to my heart to hear that stuff and even known it's not true, even though and the people who are on my you know, support system, know that it's not true, just for them having to suffer through that and hear that, the embarrassment of it, it's almost too much to take in. And
I was so nervous about that part of it. I was just terribly fearful of what, you know, maybe Gerry Hill's going to do avalon whoever else they signed up there, and I just did not want to hear that, and I didn't want anybody else to have to hear that, because it's devastating. And you know, that not happening yesterday to me personally, was liberating in and of itself. It was kind of like a signal saying, you know what we're going to We're going to give them an opportunity
to get home. And then the musing of the commission itself, you know, where they start off with twenty four months and end up at twelve with the comeback, and you know, essentially nine nine months is not that far. Two years would have been too long. I think we came away from that just about as well as we could have had hoped, you know, aside from not wanting aside from wanting to go to the halfway house, and that would have been great. This is a really really positive thing.
You know.
I've got a lot of people who've wrote to me over the the last twenty four hours, and a lot of them are angry. A lot of them are expressing sorrow, and you know, I totally appreciate that, but I want them to see the good in it. If it was not for the support, if it was not for the work of the podcast that you have done, Kelsey has done, you know, Team Leo, you know, we wouldn't be here.
And this was a very big victory for me. And I want them to be able to see the sense of accomplishment that we've all been able to, you know, put together by believing in the truth, standing for the truth, praying for the truth, and coming together and convincing people
of that same truth. We've been walking in a tunnel in utter darkness for thirty five years and well, I mean not being able to see two feet in front of ours face, just putting one foot in front of the other, going forward, hopefully we're going forward, not really knowing, just believing and trusting. We have never had a light at the end of this tunnel. Ever, yesterday a big,
bright light was lit. We can see it. It's at the end of nine months and it's solid and now without you know, the real opposition from the state and me being able to go to this program in nine months, you know, there's no reason why we won't be paroled. And so that's a very positive thing. And nine months is going to go by really really fast, especially for me.
This is really more for the pro commissioners. They are rightly wanting to be comfortable about their decision, and it's my job to go down there and make sure they know it's going to be okay. We're all going to be okay when this is over with. So, you know, nine months at an institution that's an incentivized camp number one, so they have no troublemakers there at all. You get in any trouble at every grade, you're on the next
bus leaving. So you're going to be surrounded by men who would all, like mind, are trying to do the same thing. They're all trying to get out of prison. And here's another caveat to this that I just realized this is very important. Going through that program allows me immediate access back into the prisons for other inmates, because that's part of their program. Part of the FIU program
is to give back to the prison population. That is exactly what I would want to do if the only way that could happen with me being convicted felon on the other side with parole, the only way to get back in to help my brothers in here is to go through that program. I gladly go through nine months of that. So, you know, going down there for nine months and being able to do this program and getting the ability to come back and help others that are on the same path, that's very very important to me.
I'm really feeling good and and I'm very very gratified by yesterday's results, and I want that to be conveyed to the many supporters that we have so they can feel good about it as well. Here's my fear that you know, my story fades into the history books now you know, the next new thing comes up, and you know, I begin fading away. I can do the nine months. What I'm asking from the supporters that I've got is that it just helped me get there, you know, when
this journey hasn't ended yet. I got to get to March of next year. I got to do it at a prison where I've never been, you know, with people that I don't know. I don't know anymore. And I still want to fight for exoneration. I still want to fight from my freedom because I am innocent being parolled. It's just a means to an end. It's not the end if it was not for you and the podcast and all the people have put that together and the millions of people that have supported it. You know, you
became my watchdog, and you know, and that's tremendous. Jacob Orr, Brian Hass. These people weren't here when this story was created back long ago. I'm talking about nineteen eighty nine, and you know, in the trial and all of that stuff, they weren't involved in that. So I like to think that maybe maybe the podcast, maybe the exposure to this stuff gave them reason to maybe go back and look at it themselves. I'd like to think that they have heart and you know, and give them some credit for it,
because I think I told you this before. I want to make this to where everybody can come out feeling all right about who they are, you know, even Jeremy, and especially Jeremy, because at the end of the day, nothing we do or say is going to bring my life back. And and and in her memory, I really want everybody to be all right with where we are
and where we go from here. And and so I want everybody, including the state, to be able to walk away from this and be okay, be okay with their part in it and knowing that there are better human beings for it. And that's my hope. And it might be naive to think that way. I think that's possible now. It was impossible before Bong Valley. And that's just how
profound this podcast has been. And I can't even begin to tell you how grateful I am to you, to Kelsey somehow, she has a connection in my heart and I can't even talk to that girl without breaking down crying. But from the beginning, from the very beginning, the first time we met, I just could see it in her eyes as she connected to this in a real heartfelt way. And this meant everything to me. And so you know,
here we are. It's four years and changed later, and I'm now nine months away from getting home, and to me, that's just amazing. I can't thank you enough for that. I want to make sure you thank.
Her for it.
Oh my gosh.
I like, I know you can hear it in my voice. I cannot compose myself. I'm just sitting here like listening to you and just crying. I mean, you know way better than anyone that this has been a roller coaster these past couple of days, and there's just been so
many emotions. I know it's a whole process and we're all gonna have to process this, and you especially, but I really, like, you know, woke up feeling really really good about this today, and like I'm really excited for you, Like I feel like, I mean, I'm excited you know that you're going to be going to this program, and I'm also really excited for like all of the people gonna meet there that are gonna have the opportunity to
meet you and spend time with you. And I know, like a big part of this program is like the FIU students, and I'm thinking about that as like, you know, young people I identify with that, and like how much working on your story and hearing from you and knowing you has changed my life. And there's gonna be like this whole new you know, group of kids who are gonna now get that chance to like really get to know you, and you're gonna change their lives. And I'm
that I'm so excited for that. I don't know, I'm a mess. I'm like, I'm snotty over here, but like I just it's just it's just meant so much to me, and I just, you know, I I think like nine months is, yeah, that time's gonna go by fast, and you're gonna hopefully, you know, be able to connect with a bunch of new people. And then nine months from now, Team Leo is gonna be like even bigger and more robust, and you know, we are all going to be there for you when you know, you get out for real.
And I'm excited for that.
Well, if you guys are willing to do this nine months with me, I'm willing to go down there and oh my gosh, absolutely.
We're not going anywhere.
And I just want I just wanted you to know that, and you know, we think about you all the time and so great to hear your voice and hear you feeling optimistic.
Thank you, Thank you both. I love you guys, and we'll talk again soon, right, yeah, absolutely you guys rest before you come home.
Yeah, I love you.
You are beautiful. Thank you so much for all you've done. You guys are the masters. Will love you, Gilbert, take care, buddy, Love you too, to
Bye bye