Episode #14: Inside Tips from Insurance with Micki Woods

the insurance companies. But what can we be doing as writers, estimators, shop managers and owners, what can we be doing on our side to make the best of this tough situation? Stay tuned for more on today's episode of body banging,

we're doing as body shops. So I hear it all the time I dealt with it as a shop owner myself, I hear it from my managers and estimators I work with, and it's a huge frustration, and I totally get it. So I went and spoke with a few of my good friends who work for insurance companies, and just really wanted to pick their brain and hear their perspective, their

point of view on this topic. So I think one thing to note is, they understand what's going on the insurance company, at least guys with boots on their ground on the ground, and gals, they understand that there's a disconnect, as most of you guys know, and sometimes we need we need to be reminded of is that it's not the insurance company's job to fix the vehicle. The insurance company is in the

business of making money. So it puts them at a very different place in the process, then it puts you and I as the people that fix the vehicles and get them out safely and do the repair properly. Now, should they still be doing that? They should, you would wish. But ultimately, they have policies set up in place. And there are parameters within those policies set in place so that they mitigate their loss as much as possible. Because at the end of the day, for them, it's all

about that money. But the problem is, at the end of the day, the responsibility falls upon us as shops. And we've seen the court cases to prove it that at the end of the day, ultimately, it's the shops responsibility. So what do we do? Well, we have to fight to get what we think is fair, and real. So that we can still repair the vehicle properly, and

not lose our ass, right. So when I was talking with these guys, and they're aware of the struggle, and it's difficult for them, and one gentleman and in particular used to work for a body shop, so he totally got it. And we were kind of laughing about it. And he said, You know the shoe was on one foot, and now it's on the other foot. And I used to be the person that was super defensive, I used to be

the one that was angry. And now going and working for an insurance company has really opened my eyes to now this side of the coin. And one thing that was prevalent with each person that I spoke with from a few different insurance companies, and I won't name the names, because I promise not to say names or use insurance company names for privacy purposes. But I think in general, these things will hold true. And we know that we're still going to get the aihole that comes in that no

matter what we do. We can't appease them, they're not going to budge, they're just going to be jerk offs, because that's who they are. And there's nothing we can do about that. But my whole look on life is really make the best of what you can control and leave the rest. And we fight we do what we can, but we cannot change them. But we can do the best that we can. So in talking

with them. Their biggest thing was when we come to a shop and insurance come in it and a writer, an estimator, a manager gets defensive, it automatically puts us in a bad position. And I get that I mean, even in real life if we get into an argument with a friend or a family member or our spouse or partner. The second emotions get involved.

Now all of a sudden the brain composition changes and we stopped thinking The rational brain, we start thinking with the emotional brain, the rational brain is going to be logical and the emotional brain is not going to be. But how can you help it sometimes because you get so pissed off, because you feel like you're trying to get screwed. I get it, I know, I

totally get it. So first and foremost, if we as estimators, writers, whatever, whoever, whatever our role is in the shop, if we can attempt to take a deep breath, and try not to get on the defensive, first and foremost, we're going to just do ourselves a favor, let's try to get through this process with as much piece as we can, because it's going to drive us nuts

sometimes. So first and foremost, it's the if we go on the defensive, then now we're putting somebody else feeling like they have to be on the defensive. And then it's just this circle rotating circle of nightmare, because now this person's angry, and then this person's angry. And then it's really just a power struggle. So I think the important thing to think about is, for the most part, we're going to hope that the adjuster, whoever it is, that's at your shop, is going to

be willing to be rational. Now, if they're not going to be rational, now we've got to go to another step, right? So they're willing to be rational. And even if they're not, we have to remember something very specific. They all kind of had something similar to say is, and I'm going to paraphrase it, because they all set it in their own ways. Your opinion, and your expert opinion, or what should be done to the vehicle, in the insurance world is still considered an

opinion. So they're coming to the table with their opinion. And we get angry, because oftentimes, they are not experts, they do not repair the vehicle all the time. How do they know what it takes to repair the vehicle, right? You feel me? But we're frustrated, we're frustrated. The problem is, from their perspective, potentially, they're looking at the writer or whoever, and saying, Well, what you're submitting to me is your opinion. So what do we need to do? What else shops can we do?

Well, then we need to come with actual data, we need to come with some actual metrics. And I know a lot of you shop, estimators, riders, managers, whatever, I know, you've done this before. But this is really going to be what we've got to stick with is come with the facts. If you are working on a certified vehicle, you know, there's a lot of things that they're not going to approve to pay for, that the manufacturer deems necessary to repair that

vehicle. All we can do is really keep fighting for those things. But how do we fight for it, it's not the back and forth, it's not going to be the back and forth. And let me teach you something. It's print out the repair process, and show it to them, scan it and email it to them. That's going to be how we can combat the heisha. He said she said, and you know, for some of you who are already doing that, sometimes they still decline it.

But as a collective whole of body shops, if we can start coming together to push harder for these things, and to stand up to participate in some way, even if that's just in your shop with the adjuster when they're out to be able to print it up and show them. This is why here's my estimate. Here's the repair procedure, according to the manufacturer, and I have matched that with this here. And oftentimes we won't go to that step because it's a pride thing.

It's an ego thing. So what to sum it up, what they were kind of saying is you can't say well, as a professional, this is what should be done based off of my knowledge. This is what should be done. Because then what they're hearing is, in my opinion, this should be done well, everybody's opinion is different on the same thing, right? They're coming in with their so called knowledge, but it's just their opinion. So

let's push that up. Let's push that up the chain up to the manufacturer, because with the data. And one thing that I thought was interesting is one gentleman I was speaking with, and he said, you know, maybe I don't have to cut a certain percentage off of each estimate, when I go out to a shop. I don't

have those parameters. But I have to be able to go back to my superiors and run it up the chain when I upload it on my system to show that these things were necessary, but that's when I need the shops to come in and give me those things so that I can back up why I approved this because if I can show reasoning for it, then it makes my job much easier and then I can get the shot paid for what for What they are trying to get on it.

And, and I thought that was interesting because I think a lot of us have a preconceived notion that and some insurance companies are different than others, thinking that they're coming in, and they have to cut X percent. Well, it is their job to save money. So there it is their job to reduce the inflation. And then we've got shops that because they're not getting paid what they should be

getting paid on. Other things are inflating, then other things so much, that it now puts a red flag out for all these adjusters for all these insurance companies. And if you're doing that as a shop, and you're inflating things to a ridiculous level, you're screwing us as an industry by doing so. Because the insurance company knows what the standard is, and what the averages and what other shops are basically requesting. And that's how they start to change

their metrics. So as a whole, if we were all inflating, I mean, really just let's just give them what we can, there are areas where obviously a shops, you can inflate things some more because you know, they'll give you more and so that you can take the loss somewhere else, we know the game, we know how it works, I'm talking about the shops that are completely drastically calling for things that do not need to be done. Because they give shops

everywhere, a bad name. It just takes one wheat in the garden to ruin it for everybody. And it's frustrating, it's frustrating to work with my shops, and then hear what other shops are doing. And that's why then we end up in this predicament. That's not the whole reason. But that has something to do with it. And we need to be very aware of it. It makes it harder for the shops are doing things right, because now they're treated as if they're doing something wrong when they're not because some

other aihole is. So that's frustrating. Another thing is every job has a market value to some extent, kind of like I touched on before. So we have a the insurance company has a general idea of what they're going to approve to pay based off of what other people are asking for. So again, collectively, you need to be putting on there and trying to get payment for those pre and post scans. For all of these things that maybe insurance isn't paying for right now. Maybe they are. But it's our job

to be writing. And that's so important anyway, write a full, complete estimate, a full complete estimate, right? Don't forget anything. If you've watched any of my other podcasts before you've heard other shop managers and owners Come on. And Justin Ryder talked about it, I think it was him where and I saw another somebody else on another, like YouTube video or

something. And they were talking about how you figure out the materials that you're going to need before you even use them so that all of that gets put on the estimate, because they'll pay for that. And typically without a problem. So if you can figure out all of those little all the small little costs, they add up. So it's not just an estimate of the big picture things, it's every

little bit. If you can write every little bit, then think about then if they decline a few things on there versus before the writer going through and writing a standard estimate where they left off things. Why? I don't know, maybe they were in a hurry. Maybe they need to be trained better. I don't know, it could be a myriad of things. So it's super important for shops to be writing full, complete

estimates. That way, if you're getting some things turned down by the insurance company, hey, least you're getting paid for things that you wouldn't have gotten paid on otherwise, because you didn't even have them on the estimate. Mike can

really be helpful. The other thing is, if we're all writing much more complete estimates, and it's not like we're not gonna forget things or miss things, of course, but if we are taking the time to go through and write that estimate, and potentially I have some shops that have a writer and initial writer and then an auditor who will go in and write and go over that estimate and double check everything before it gets fully submitted. And it's not a

supplemental estimate. This is before insurance even sees the first estimate. Which leads us to another issue is the supplements. Insurance companies now know that this was a big game specifically during COVID like not like they didn't see it before. But during COVID insurance companies were complaining that shops were purposely low balling estimates and then giving massive

supplements afterwards. And so of course, they go through and they just start declining everything or totaling everything and so they were totaling smaller loss Because they were waiting for that massive supplement to come in. Now, not all shops did that. But I did hear of a lot of shops, unfortunately too many shops doing that. And like I said, it just takes up one guy, a few things where it screws up for everybody, right, so trying to

work the system. So if we can write that full, complete estimate as much as possible, obviously, I'm not asking for perfection, nor are you even trying to be there, but we're just trying to do the best we can, then insurance companies are going to back off, and they're going to know your shop, you have to remember that the insurance companies in your area, they know what type of shop that you are, for the most part. And I will create a disclaimer and put it at the

front of this video. And it will include something along the lines of there's always going to be that asshole adjuster, there are always the jerks that we're dealing with that are totally unreasonable and totally unwilling to help us out. And I'm not talking about those, there are those out there. I'm talking about the guys and gals out there that are also trying to do the right thing and just

try to do a good job. And I think there's more of those people out there, then I think, I think it's frustrating for them that they don't get the credit, because they are trying to do a good job. And I have several, a lot of really good friends that are really trying to do their best. They're not trying to screw over shops, but they understand they've got to also play the game, because their job is to save the insurance company money. So we

have to remember that. So but if we can give them true reasoning for the repair processes, procedures, parts and whatnot, they can much more comfortably and solidly go and run it up the flagpole to potentially get approval for it. Ultimately, there's ignorance on both sides, we really need to have some education on both sides. I think we all know it, our writers can do better, they can be better they can. They can do better all around the insurance company and the adjusters they can do better

all around. I think if we can get to a point with both sides, where we stop pointing fingers, and get to a place where we can start looking at ourselves and figuring out okay, how do we do this the best for us? How do we be the best that we can be? Then you can kind of let go of some of the anger and animosity because you're not you know, you're doing the best you can.

And to kind of go back what I was saying before the insurance adjusters in your area, they know you, they have come to your shop before they've looked at your estimates. They know your staff, they know the type of shop that you are, they know the type of people that you are. And if you are consistent with giving real true estimates, then when you need to push for something a little bit more and fight for something a little bit more, they're much more inclined to believe you enroll with it.

But it's kind of like who we are in life. If we are those people, people know, oh, they're that kind of person. And they're not going to give us the leeway. But then on the other side of they're like, you know what, Nikki, she's a good check. You know, she, she gets it, she knows she's doing her best. She fights for things if she really believes in it, and she's really

fighting for this one. And she showed me the documentation and I'm you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my best, I'm gonna approve this, or I'm gonna at least approve part of it, at least I'm gonna give her something. So there is that goodwill, and we really need to embrace that and take advantage of it. And I think a lot of shops just get so pissed and frustrated that they're like, screw you all. I'm doing it the way I'm doing it. But it's

really not helping. It's really not helping the industry, nor is it helping you as a shop owner. After talking with my friends and other insurance companies and insurance adjusters and managers. I'm going to tell you something, there are shops out there that are completely unwilling to work and do what we would think would be proper

protocol. And maybe you're one of those listening right now, who would be shocked how many shops are submitting for estimates or supplements without photos, or very minimal photos are terrible quality photos, the lighting is bad, you can't see anything. Let's get to a point where we can help them help us. We can only do the best we can do but we've got to do our part. So there are shops out there that are wanting a massive

supplement. And with that supplement when they submit it are submitting total crap photos. You guys would be shocked at what these insurance a reason? Why do I get car insurance agents, probably because I'm in marketing and I worked with insurance agents for 15 years. You would be shocked what these shops are submitting to the insurance companies and wanting to get approved. You guys would be shocked or maybe you're not shocked because

you're one of those people. So over document, take more photos when they can ever need inundate them. But at the end of the day, let's be good people, let's write full and complete estimates. And let's do our part to try to bridge this gap, which is not going away anytime soon. Because we are really competing interests, we think it should be for the customer, you and I, a shop owners that work in shops, we believe it's all about the customer. And there are many

insurance people that do. But the insurance company itself is there to make money. And that's their biggest concern. That's why we have two sides of the fence, they're trying to come together. So let's do the best that we can for that. And the most important thing is to deliver the data, don't deliver your knowledge, or your opinion is they're going to take it, deliver the data, get the

information. And we now have access to all the information that we need, really through all of these different programs, get the repair process, get the repair procedure out, print it out, and give them a copy and explain to them why you're doing

it that way. Use the data, the data is your evidence, the data is your ally, from everybody that I've talked to, the data will speak more loudly than you throw in a fit and mother F and everybody do good work in your shop, keep your customer service scores up. At the end of the day, you guys, we're about fixing vehicles properly, in a timely manner, and doing it with love in our hearts, because that's what we've been called to do, right. That's why we're doing what we

do. So I hope that this has given you some things to think about. I hope this has given you some tools to take away. Again, you probably already knew a lot of this stuff. But sometimes it helps to hear it from somebody

else. And it was really eye opening to talk with these people and hear from their perspective, because I find myself also caught up in the emotion of it, and to really hear their side of their heart to really be an advocate for the shop, but they get shot down so much by the shops that it potentially sometimes breaks their own spirit. And no, I'm not saying oh poor them. But I'm just saying in every situation, there's two sides to the story. And it was really interesting to

dive into it with them. And hopefully the insurance insurance and their restrictions will ease up a little bit so I can have one of these people on the show and you can hear it directly from them because I think that would make us as people that work in shops, I think it would really do our hearts good to hear that there are people out there that really want to do the right thing and they really want to help the shops and they are out there.

And instead of always being angry and kicking, screaming throwing tantrums, let's make the best out situation the situation that we do have and be the best that we can be. So love you guys thanks for tuning in to another episode of body bang in next week's I will have a very very special guest actually two of them from the same company and I think you guys are gonna love it. So stay tuned next week next Monday another episode. Bye.

it. Much love from all of us here at body banging all things Auto Body