Episode 45 - Shane McAnally (3-23-17)

talk to you about. But number one songs of yours real quick, just so the folks out there listening, because you're like the most famous not famous person in Nashville. Okay, yeah, I think that's probably that's that's a that's a good way to say it. Yeah, because you have the Vampaire better dig to Americ kids, Kenny Chesney, Luke Bryan, Kissed Tomorrow, Goodbye Lady and Abelleum Downtown, Sam Hunt, Leave the Night on Derk Spentley different for girls, say you do Thomas

Rhett t shirt. There's a lot and it keeps going. But that's how influential and like a big dealy is. Now with that being said, I kind of want to talk to you about like theory for a second at

philosophy because that would be more fun. Um, well, don't worry, we'll get to the part where you have to be like But and I also think Shane might be the richest person that's been up here, because we were not think that now we were we were thinking, and it's either richest person we've and I have no idea much money you have, but I know what these songs pay. If you right him in twos or threes, you're probably well, I think we have the richest Bobby cast. Yes, it's funny.

I always joke about two. I always joke to friends like, well, I'm rich, But when someone else says it, all of a sudden, you get read and you want to go, will you know, I think we have a new winner and until yeah, I think right now you're reached by the standards of where I came from clubhouse. Let's get to all that. And he was, you're on Star Search or so much I want to get to But this came out this week, and you're the guy to talk to about this because you're a writer and a producer

and you're an artist. So here is edge sher in shape you right? You know your love was handing me for somebody like me coming. Now great, All that's great, right, So this week he had to add the writers of TLC No Scrubs to his song now here is the part of No Scrubs. I'm gonna plan it back again, So it's you know, da da da da da, I don't want no Scott. When you hear those two, what

do you here? Well, it's funny. I just heard about this and I was I literally was thinking about it this morning because I thought maybe the reason the writer's noticed it was because at the end of that one phrase he says, somebody liked me and they say no love from me. Sometimes just the phonetically the syllables, that the fact that they were saying me would make somebody go, oh, that sounds I would never have heard that. But I

didn't write No Scrubs, so it's hard to imagine. If if I had written it, maybe I would say that's on my song. I don't it doesn't. I don't feel that now when you play them like that. If I was, if I was, you know, just like in a jury or however they do it, I would probably say I see the connection there. But as a songwriter, because we are all rewriting and influenced and hearing things. It would be hard for me as a songwriter to say that those writers should be on that song. That one's tough

for me, it is. And if it's going, hey jump on as a songwriter. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with it. Maybe think it's too close. It's happened to him a couple of times. And even with See and See on that song too. You know, see it has a song and it sounds like that at the beginning and some other Yeah. So I mean, why do you where does it stop? I mean, either, I don't know why it's happened so much lately. I mean, it seems

like it started with blurred lines. And here's this, here's the two, here's Robin Thick blurred lines, by the way, and they actually went to court and lost this case. And so here's Marvin Gaye. Gotta give it to you. I mean, for sure this one. You don't hear this one? No,

I do. I do know. The thing about that I was My expression was they I cannot imagine that those guys when they wrote it, and that when they made that track, that they what they were thinking was theoretically I mean you said theory, they were thinking, our melody and our phrasing is different, but the track it sounds so similar. So you have to think of like the average listener's ear, does this hearken to that? Does this make you think of that? It was certainly influenced by it.

It's so hard because I mean, we I would. I think it's a pretty safe pet to say. I can't speak for every songwriter, but most of the circle I run with we drive to work every morning and come in and go, oh my god, I just heard this song like I want to write a feel like that. You know, usually by the end of the day you can hardly hear where we started. But we were still influenced by I mean, it's it's impossible to sort of

pinpoint where it all started. And I really feel bad for the for ed shearing that this continues to happen in situation. Now. The other one of his uh, the the big song was it thinking out Loud? That song sounded very similar to the other song, and I didn't I didn't actually know the other song, but I heard him side by side. Yeah, And that guy was from like a like idol, like um British ide or whatever it's called, you know, and even that and I'll play it this so I'm gonna pull up and it's close.

But even when you know tr Thomas did Die Happy Man, that sounded. I told Tomas first time I heard, I was like, are you like anything with ed like it? And he was like, no, not yet, And I guess nothing ever happened. It's the production on Die Happy Man that kind of makes you think of that, which in is where does it lie? Is it the sound of the musicians playing or is it the melody and the lyrics? And it's it's getting harder and harder to I mean

for people to fight those things. What about this? And we don't want to. Songwriters, if some things you stole something from, Oh my god, I mean, if if someone has you know, would ever say to me, I think you got that from my song, especially if we were friends, I would know they really felt that way. Songwriters don't just cry wolf. I mean most of the time they're not just out there trying to, you know, get on

a song. The ones I know, and if they bring it up, it would be it would be very hurtful because you would think, oh, I would never want you to think that I stole that from you. You know, I haven't had that happen to me. I mean I've had friends where we've discussed. I'll be like I was sort of like, you know, in a joking way, like, oh, that's kind of like the one that we wrote that

was never a hit and now it's a hit for you. Um. But that's in the very close circle where we write so many songs, you know that sometimes topics crossed some things. This one here Smith and you know the song that the Won't Back Down And now Tom Petty's a writer on the Sam Smith song. I would never have noticed it,

but the melody is exactly the same. The weird thing about this one the first time I heard it, I heard it I was listening to Lightning One and they were playing Sam Smith and I was like, this sounds like R and B Tom Petty. Wow. And I didn't hear until this pointed out, and I was like, well it is. I mean you count the notes they used to say it was like seven notes or something. That's clearly not the rule anymore it can be. Do you

feel like this came from this? I mean, I think there's actually I think I shouldn't be talking leally because I don't know, but I just remember thinking that used to be a seven note rule or something like. I think this sample rule also used to be that too, like if you would sample, you don't have to pay for it at like seven notes. So that's that's why quick, you know. Again, so uh, there are a lot of those.

And I wondered how you felt, because again, I feel bad for everybody involved, because I hate for somebody on one side, like No Scrubs, for those folks to think that he stole from them, but God to get that call and then to hear him side by side and go, wow, I guess you can sort of you can hear it, but the production is so different. The way we make records is so different than when No Scrubs, you know, so the sound is just different. But you you lay them out, I mean there is I can see where

somebody would hear it. I wouldn't have heard it for me, and I am, by no means a real life songwriter, but every butting a kids album and did you never write comedy songs? I have to have writers insurance. Okay, someone sees me, I can only imagine. And this is mine's gonna be miniscule compared to what yours. Did you know, I don't really know what we pay. I know that we're covered in that way. Um, because certainly when you have this many songs floating around and and uh, it

gets I have to be honest with you, Sonny. In country world, we kind of stay in our in our corner when we have things that start to cross over. Is when I started, like the the new Sam single body like a back road. Uh. I've heard a couple of different people say it reminded them of songs and I can't even tell you which one is. Different ones. Oh it makes me think of this, and I'm like, oh God, that song is getting is looking to sort of make the crossover push. Like that's when I would

be afraid of it. When it has that sort of attention on it. Well, more ears bring more thoughts, exactly. And so when it goes from forty million people hearing it to five million people hearing it and somebody yeah exactly. So let's talk about you for a second, and let's bounce around a little bit. First of all, because you grew up in Texas and you went to ut Yeah and so and you wanted to be like, like an accountant or a financial guy. Went, I went. I was

in accounting. I was weirdly really good at math. That was one of the only natural things to me in school and uh, which did kind of show up in my songwriting. It a lot of people don't have. I don't see songwriting that way. It's it is nu merit to me. When I look at lyrics on a page, seeing the way the lines lay out looks mathematical, almost like a graph, like, oh, that verse doesn't match the

second verse. And that's not how most people right. And I've gotten I've tried to get away from it because there is a more train of thought way of writing now. Um. But with that said, I like, you know, you take your S A T S and they can separate different parts that I did very good enough in math to be in the School of Business at ut which is harder to get into once you've been there a couple of years. So they suggested, since my scores were high enough,

go ahead and started in the School of Business. So I was an accounting major, But I mean in my first year I didn't really get that deep into it. He's super good student. I was in high school, like you're I'm a competitive person. I think it had to do with more wanting to for people to like me, wanting to be the best at stuff where you super

gifted or super hard workers. Hard worker really so okay, so you go how on the because I imagine you could sing while you're doing this, because you're an artist. So are you singing in Texas? Yeah, I was about twelve, I did. I got on stage the first time in just saying it like a you know, local contest at the mall. What that turned into was sort of a weekend gig of of um going around two in Texas and Oklahoma. In Arkansas there's sort of an opera circuit.

I don't even really know if this is still something that goes on, But when I was a kid, there were places you could go and play with the band. There these operys and reviews. There was this one in uh Great Contextas where it was like Lean Wimack, Steve Holly, myself, Lee and Rhymes grew up on that show was the Johnny High Country Music Review. A lot of a lot of Nashville talent has come from there. So that's what

I would do on the weekends. And uh and that got you know, and then I was on Star Search and I moved to Branson for a while. I can't skip over star starts like that. You can't so bad. I'm so glad you do not have a way to show that clip. Well, it's just you have to meet ebit man. Yes, like if for those if you're listening and then you're under twenty five, you don't even know. But Ed McMahon was. He was like to do that was the coolest thing about doing it. It was American,

Adam before it was American right exactly. So you went on Star Search at what age I was and what did you say? I saying sometimes when we touch, sometimes when we touched, very serious. I wore the most stars that you got to in three quarters. I did not do well. And I was against this, literally a fourteen year old Whitney Houston. I swear I saw her in rehearsal and I was like, what am I doing here?

I was just this country kid tried and I tried to like jazz it up because I was against her and I saw what she did and I tried to do things that vocally we're not really in my you know element and uh, I learned a lot I got. I was really hurt by that. It's funny, it sounds you know, my my childhood was a little bizarre. My um my parents divorced when I was twelve. My dad actually went to to prison. Um, and I just was kind of a lost kid, really trying to hold it

together in a way that the Star Search. I pinned a lot of my hopes and dreams on that, um if that makes any sense, Like I I was like, if I can win this, something will happen for me outside of this. So I took it very very seriously. And uh, it's it's funny. I have a hard time even now I'm forty two, it's still I just did this thing at the Hall of Fame where they showed all these clips of me growing up and stuff this

Poets and Profit series, which was an honor. But they showed a clip of that that they asked if they could, and it was really hard for me. I mean, do you feel like you let your mom or absolutely? And I and look, I don't feel like that. Now. Look what I've my life has gotten into. But I think I think it's more about I look at that kid, and I just wish I could have talk to him so that he would just calm down, you know, you know, and I relate to you in the way of my parents.

I don't know my real dad, you know, and um my mom's not alive anymore. But I kept from a broken home too, and I always felt a little bit like it was my fault. There was some kind of just if I would have just been better at something that maybe it wouldn't. And I think that's a common feeling. It doesn't really logically make sense when you're an adult and you look, You're like, why would that Why would it be your fault? But yeah, I mean that was sort of that that Star searchs thing, weirdly is a

great symbol of what it marked something for me, you know. Also, I was, look, I didn't even know this myself, and and not to make it about this, but I was really sort of a stranger in my own body because I was gay and I didn't know, but sort of you're mixed up and I'm growing up in the small town in Texas where everything is football and and you know, testosterone, and like I'm singing, I just thought I would go on Star Search and like show everybody at fifteen in

Texas where you openly gay to anyone. No, not even to me. I mean my I had a girlfriend through college and and uh, I don't even think I was lying. And a lot of times people will be like, how could you have lied? I think I just had no exposure. I just felt out of place. When did you finally feel in place? I don't know. I mean I think I still struggle with that. It's funny. I was just I was just saying this to someone the other day,

a young artist. I said, you know, I thought when I had kids that somehow something would click and make me a grown up, that I wouldn't still be scared of the same things, or because you can't your parents kind of have to fake it or or adults. I'm I'm still I still have the same insecurity, same fears. But I do feel really loved in this community. Um, I feel really respected. And so I don't know if it if you as if a creative person ever feels

like they completely fit. I think that's that's what drives us. That's why you keep creating, because you feel like you have to keep creating so you can create whatever the full is and you never achieved the search exactly. You're always on the search. But I will say that that this success, in this sort of acceptance by the the songwriting community in Nashville, it does that is a little part of my heart that's a little more, a little

more together. I mean that sounds dramatic, but uh, if it's true, if it's a real feeling you have, then it's you. I don't need some of them. I mean saying this. I haven't ever said it that way when you said when did you fit? And I guess I don't. I I don't, but I but in most people I know probably don't. But there are moments of where people doing things like this, I mean, getting to see it all together here, the fact that you want to talk to me, it it is validating and it does feel

like I did something. How do you feel about because the country music genre gets this reputation as being southern male, gotta be straight. Here, you are a gay man super successful in country music. But I don't feel what everyone else says we're supposed to be. It isn't like I don't feel what everyone says you have. It's funny because a few years ago, when I was first having a big run um. This guy came to do a story on me from the New York Times and the angle

was gay in country music. What that must be like, Like that You're going in with all these you know, redneck, straight masculine men and writing these songs. They must it must be hard to even get in the rooms with those guys or and I said, you know, it just has not. I have not had that experience. I think that there are so many great songwriters and you just have to be so much better than everybody else to

in any capacity. It doesn't matter if you used to have a record deal, or if you're gay, or if everybody has a reason why it's not gonna work for him. And you know, a lot of times gay songwriters will come up to me at the Bluebird or whatever and say, oh, you've just been so inspiring to me. Like what would you say to a gay songwriter? And I'll say, just write the best songs. I mean, that's that really sounds simple.

But I would love to have used it, and maybe sometimes I have used it as a reason, you know, for like not getting something. But the reality is I've never been treated in a negative way. If anything, I think it's been the opposite as you look back and man, we have a lot, have a lot. Uh here, Before I do this, let me talk about what's what's our

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Eight hundred next bed. And that's about sleep number. Okay, we're back, and so as you look, I have so many clips here and you're you're so accomplished at your age. Let's start with Kenny Chetney because it seem okay, um, let's start with that. So how did the Kenny you getting into the Kenny camp? Well, what's weird is that I so, I had a record deal in the nineties. I moved to Nashville in nine four five, and uh I had a record deal and was I was managed

by the same folks that manage Kenny. Still to this day they still man No, Buffy Is works on that team. Yes, but Clint Higham, who manages Kenny, managed me, and um, so I got to this is in the nineties. I mean, he wasn't what he is now. He was still he was playing like three thousand seat venues and I went on the road with him, but we didn't really know each other. We sang it like a wedding together, you know what I mean, like we would cross paths. So

then jump to uh, two thousand nine. At that point, I had moved to l A. I'm moved back. I'm still great friends with his manager, but I mean were very close. And um, I had this song and that I had written, still living in l A. But back and forth to Nashville, and I sent it to him and he loved it, and he was like, you know, my friend. He was like, I want to send this to Kenny. He tried, it didn't really get there. I had a friend, Robin Palmer, who still works with me now,

who's pitching songs. She pitched it every which way and just couldn't get it through. And finally he did hear the song. He did not know I wrote it or connect me from ten years prior. But what happened was when he recorded the song, he then reached out and started listening to so much more of myself was the first song you're talking about Somewhere with You on the beach Down, just a monster song and if it's a

turn for him. I mean, the thing was that the phrasing was strange in the in a way that this was very natural to me, the way the writing of this. So that is why so much happened so fast, because I had a lot of songs like this. So when you have a hit like this for someone that is kind of out of their comfort zone but makes them, it creates this comfort lane for them, and so they go, Okay, I'm coming back to you because what you did is something that no one else has been able to do

with me. So then what then, what do you do? Well? I would send him everything first and then um, and then in the in between, I'm starting to again some of the songs that were sort of cousins of Somewhere with You, like Alone with You, even the title. I had a few songs like that, uh, and Jacob and recorded that and that's the jam by the way, like that's that might be my favorite Jake song. It sounds so good on it and it sounds so good on the radio. So I had a run of a few

things like that that got placed. Then he recorded come Over and um, that was the song that that I've written with Sam Hunt. One of the first things I wrote with Sam when I met him, and this to me come over was when the real downfall or not downfall, what like the when it started to just everybody was then it wasn't like a one hit thing. It was like everybody started coming to room. And I think it's because it you know, it does kind of when it

happens twice like that. And uh so, yeah, this song, I feel like it was just as important to somewhere with you been in a different way because then we had done it twice. Um with Kenny in that lane, you know, something he hadn't done before it and Josh Osborne another another power hit it. Absolutely, So how do Sam at that point okay Sam as American knows and wasn't Sam at that point? How does Sam get in

a room with you? And interesting that the connection Actually he was managed at that time by Clint Higham, who is the guy who manages Kenny, who managed me in the nineties, So he just had he had met Sam and and was working with him and said, I want you to to write with this kid, and and uh, you know, we just hit it off and we wrote a long time, and we wrote a lot of songs before. Ultimately, what sort of turned for Sam was when we wrote the song take Your tom which at this point now

is five years old. Let's get there, ye let let's get there because we're gonna get all Listen, this is MCINALI drive here today. We're driving down at Kenny. I'll give you one more Kenny one here talking about this

one so American Kids. I wrote with Luke Layard and Rodney Clawson and it was the first song the three of us had ever written together to the two of the biggest writers and you know the history of country music actually, and um, it's funny about this song is Josh and I Josh Osborne and I flew to St. John too write with Kenny with him coming back on the plane on that trip we wrote wild Child coming

back right well the Himmgress, yeah, exactly. On the way back on the plane, Kenny said this was for the big revival record. He said, I have everything, but the first single. I just don't have it. And he's looking through emails while he's on his plane. I'm sitting next to him, and he said, here's an email you sent me three months ago. I never listened to it. At that time, a Little Big Town had just started to record this song that had laid down the initial tracks.

I didn't say that the moment because I see his he's like listening on his headphones literally next to me, and he looks at me before I mean, thirty seconds in he was like, this is the song, this is the one, and I didn't It was awful. It was that's the worst of that sort of thing that's happened. Because I didn't say in that moment because I didn't know what to do. I didn't say, well, it's on hold and let me check with them. I just sat there, like, what did you say? Like, what what did you say?

In that moment? I didn't say anything. I was like, awesome, glad you like and I wish you had opened it when I sent it to you. Um. But then we got back and I called Clint and I said, oh my god, like Kenny said he loves this song and you know, and uh, I called Little Big Towns manager is also on our good friends and it was not correct at first it was and it was not a great conversation. It was he said, well, you know, this

isn't it's not professional for YouTube. They have the song, they should get to try it, and I said, no, no, I know, I don't know what to do. So uh, Basically what happened was that eventually Clint did talk to Kenny about it, and Kenny said, here's the thing. I this is my first single from this record. At that point, he hadn't he had taken two years off. Uh, he had put out like a beach record. You know, it does that everyone in a while, so this was a big thing for him. He said, this is gonna be

my first single. Let's find if a little big town is that invested in it, if they feel like it's that sort of record for them, then we'll back off. But let them know that's where I'm at. This is not a record cut. And luckily they were not. They weren't far enough along at that point, and they said, you know, if Kenny is gonna say that's his first single from his record, then we can't hold you back because we don't know where we're being gonna be. So

that's what happened. So is it ever Let's say, okay, so let's say that call happens, and I'm just gonna hypothetically throw this out there. So Kenny calls a little big town. He goes, hey, I'd like to have this. So does he owe a little big town one later

down the road if I mean, I think that's more personal. Yeah, like, And the truth is what happened with that whole run, which is really interesting, is that on the whole cycle of you know you have a big hit, that was a big that was a big song for Kenny Um. At the same on the same cycle they had Girl Crush, and so I think they got over it pretty fast. Yeah, that probably we were nominated at every awards show against

Girl Crush with American Kids. I mean, of course Girl Crush was you know, a steamroller and and I could say that it's the best song of the century. I mean I worshiped that song, you know. Um. So it's certainly in the end, not that you couldn't they couldn't have had both, but you know, it's just funny the way that that worked out. You mentioned Sam, and which song did you mentioned from Sam? Take Your Time, No Steel, Freedom, I Don't Change. This wasn't his first single, so we

actually wrote the first single after that song. But that song was when something happened where it was like, this is a sound. It took five years of him being in town writing. He had a lot of hits on other people, but it was just that that phrasing in the beginning, the talking it. For some reason he could do it, and we felt it in the room, Josh and I. When Sam was doing it, it was like, this doesn't feel goofy, but if joshua I tried to

sing it, it would be hilarious. And Josh does sing it in rounds and I think it's a mistake, but I always joke when he starts it always go I don't know if you're looking at me. It makes me laugh. Sam says it and it sounds perfect, and it's it's that sort of lane when someone finds that lane that nobody else can sing these songs. You know, no people could say that could cut take your time, but it

wouldn't be the same. And that was when the spark happened of how a record should be made on Sam, like, what's the sound whatever that is that Sam hunt And so even though we knew you couldn't lead with that, because it was the little shocking uh, we felt like that was the pinnacle of what and it and it proved to be true. Usually these things don't that out

like that with him, it did. And so you lead with if I'm remembering my Sam chronic because because we would have Samon earlier, I thought it thought he was so like crazy weirdly awesome. And it was like, hey, guy, I don't even really know you. And you played the hard you know, he played David Busters, and we were like, dude, come on the show because you just played David Busters and that's really unique and I need to hear it.

And he would come in and play anybody like And I remember being shocked when he played it live because I was like, like, I thought he was talking to me when the first almost are you talking to me? Are you? But it was so different where you're like, huh, it's hard to cut not just music, anything creative. It is hard to have something that cuts through a period in a world of a million lights, it's hard for your one little to shine. And that was a light

that just shined. Well that was this, I mean, that is what Take your Time did and and we we're very lucky that we also then went on to write The Night on He Had, which came out before you wrote it in the opposite order. But Leave the Night I came later. Yeah, I was the first single, but you wrote it later. That's right. Wow, that's interesting. And this is a more digestible first almost it could almost

blend with some other things someone else could have cut. It. Just got him enough attention so that then he could come and take your time. So leave the Night on, take your time? Um. Break Up in a Small Town? Yeah, where this fall in the nick? It was written after those two songs. Um. It was probably one of the last things written for Monta Vallo and uh, he had

the whole chorus written. He sat down with Zach Crowl and I and he's sang that the whole chorus, and I thought it sounded so country, the whole hook of break Up in a Small Town. Um. I had no idea that what we would end up writing was the most left thing on the record around that but just on acoustic guitar or that you get there. I can't even attempt to sing right now, but but you know that melody was just a great country and then you gotta move or move on. I just thought this, this

is so, this is such a great story. I've never heard it, and it's it's funny how you said, how one artist can take it and do something. For example, and Sam did I met a girl and on the mixtape, so that's where I knew I met a girl from girl. She made me smile, she made me wait. And then well, y'all, Michael Morgan does it, I met a girl. You can't sound any country, right, I mean that's you know what you get this and that I've heard you say things like this that at the end of the day, this

song would it. It said something a little bit different, but it said something somebody's felt. And I do think that that that's the bottom line of great songs. You know, Sam did it the way he would do it, and uh, this one here though, it's this one here is just a game changer. It's as a game change. Even I

cannot believe what is happening with the song. I was talking on the radio about it and I was like, hey, listen, you know, and just full disclosure here, Sam and are managed by the same people, like we have the same umbrel and so and I was like, you know, I don't think that for Sam, it's like the number one priorty to cross over all the time. He definitely doesn't. He definitely does not set out to do that. But what I said was, you almost can't control this. It's

gonna get so big that you can find it. Or you can say, you know, I don't care, or I'm in different or I this is the song that Okay, good luck trying to hold it back. I have to say this song had many forms. Sam Is those verses that seems so simple got from the South Side. There are probably forty versions of it. He knew the way, the playfulness that had to be there to set up a hook like that, you know what I mean? He

just knew, and we we worked on it. By far, this is the most we've ever worked on a song, and it sounds the simplest myth. I mean, you just you're just not gonna be able to hold down. Not that you'd want to, but if you wanted to know, I'm with you. I mean, listen, I hear that one as a fan. It comes on and I'm just the process of writing that song was was so sort of tangled. You would not believe how simple. You can't imagine that a simple song that came out of it. I hear

it and I don't really remember the process. I hear it as a fan. I'm like that happens sometimes where you hear and you're like, I just love this song. I mean, I'm so glad that I'm a writer on it, But I really don't even remember that part of it because there's so many versions of it. The weird thing too,

And it's tough because again, I worked. I was born and raised in Arkansas, so I grew up on even older country than I was supposed to listen to because my grandma, my grandma raised me to adopt me for a while when I was a kid, and so for me, it was the I got another really old stuff before I got to know the McGraw and the Guards stuff, which but then you know, I was an alternative nut and the night I was a grunge kin in the nineties and I loved hip hop, and so for me,

I've been able to work all these formats just because I love music, just straight up. I just love music.

And when I was at pop and I was doing I spent ten years like building a syndication company at pop, and the only real artist that would crossover were for the most part, female ish driven Taylor's Lady A. Because Hillary was the lead, you wouldn't have a lot of male crossover vocally, I I understand that, and even Rascal Flats they don't sound super masculine because Gary's voice is a high voice, and so this is gonna be one of those songs. It's an interesting thing. You just nailed it.

I mean, he he sounds very masculine. He sounds I don't know if you just cannot put your finger on those things. Like he just has something that appeals and you know, like when he talks and people say, oh you like, can you really sing? The tone of his voice on a microphone? Is you know, there's luck to John Mayer's like the people that Adele has that it's it's yes, they're great singers, but there's something in the tone of their voice that is so distinct and so warm.

You just said, I mean that that that word. It feels like they're talking to you. It's warm. And that's why it's gonna be able to cross over is because popped a very female format and they don't. They're not going to take a lot of those super masculine countries that is not And I actually think Honestly, we always joke about the way Sam looks, but the truth is that was a hurdle. It will be. It's a help

now because people find him legit. But in the beginning, the way he looked, he had a moment of people taking him seriously. Well, because if you're really good looking, you expect things are given you and your a polished product. That's why. And that's really and that's not an unfair observation because most of the time when we see that inside of music, I do the same thing. Someone's beautiful, we go, okay, they're beautiful, but really work And it takes a minute to let so kin to say that's

just part of him. I mean, that's just the way he looks, but it's it is no indication of how hard he's worked or or that he was meant to do this. You know. Let's move over to Casey Musgraves, who I've said a bunch of times like if I had to pick an artist like my favorite artist Casey and so I mean you worked with Casey a lot. Yeah, she was a big part of me, not just being seen as enough that there's anything wrong with this, but

I had ambitions to do more than just song right. Um. I wanted to be more involved in the development of the production of uh just. I wanted to be a part of an artist's career because my artist's career didn't work out, but I still had I don't know something about developing that color or you know, it's like a real lane. I would look back at the people I loved, like Dolly Parton, like Willie Nelson, and they were so distinct, you know, and the people around them. Usually it was

a small group that sort of helped to develop. And Casey was a great vehicle in that way because she trusted me and Luke laired and we wrote a lot of songs together and started just doing demos in Luke studio and that's how same trailer started to be put together. Casey knew herself well enough that she didn't go looking for a big, hot producer at the time because Luke and I had not done anything. So she just looks like, this is the way it's supposed to sound. You know.

This record was so good. I mean, it's still one of my favorite records period nine years. It's just a it's a ride. It's why we make records, you know. So with this song, and I can remember playing follow your Earrow every hour just because I remember. I remember when you played it, and I was some I was like,

you know what, everybody just screw off. And I came into this running a little hot, and I know I was a little bull in the china shop, and but still I was just like, if we're really gonna get mad, let's get mad. It's until worth getting mad about. Because there were people that were upset of the song so and it's so funny. We that was so unintentional. I mean, given her personality, a lot of people think that was just so calculated, like I'm just gonna, you know, flip

off the industry everybody. It was just it was so not without thought. We just never knew that was gonna do that. You know. It was so weird that people would be mad. I would and again I become a real dick about it because I was like, how are how are you gonna be mad about something like that went to number of which is it still pisses me off, dude. But you know, we also saw such a great there is a what a silver lining in that song that that the c m A named the Song of the

year and shocked everybody in the room, including us. I mean we were so shocked by that. That was like one of the greatest moments to be truly truly like punched in the gut in a great way where you just had no idea. I mean I was looking at the whole row of songwriters, like nobody was worried about follow your arrow? What was it up against? Um? We automatic?

Because that was the year. That's what I remember thinking the most, that like, yeah, um gosh, you know what, I get confused of what was where I don't remember they all started to blend. You're right about that. They all started fine, But yeah, that that was a that was a jam. I'm gonna play step off like this step off and I think this should have been a single.

I think I think it might have. At the time that that change right there is so kind of bizarre, sort of circusy, and I kind of was under the end. I thought that I don't know that that would work. But looking back, I think if people had seen her as a bit more playful on that record, that maybe she would have had more commercial success. I don't jam, I love it. I want to run through some songs and Uh, let's just talk. We'll do like a quick fire and answer here. I'll play this one um Shane

about Urban. By the way, I have a wall here and so on my wall when people come in. These are like the artists that I've like directly been involved, Like these are my people, and Urban's one of them. Maren obviously girl Crushed because I was a big controversy for me. I was on that train with you, by the way. I know we're not really talking about that now. We talked about everyone girl Crush was. I was literally not that, not that this should even make a difference.

I was doing whatever I could. I was posting pictures of my kids and those girl Crush hats, and you know literally that I was that song. I called all three songwriters the day I heard it. I had never been so blown away by an idea, a cut, the sound of a vocal. That song is a perfect record.

They were doing an album release party and I heard the night before the album came out, and and um day Drinking wasn't wasn't number one yet, but it was about to is that it was that weak And I heard this song and I'm like, I'm putting this on the radio the next day, and I put and I got in so much trouble, so much trouble, Shane that program directors were complaining to my bosses of my stations right because like, oh it's a lesbian song, okay, so

so whatever, you know, it's all great, it's all so whatever song. I continue to play it, right, I continue to play it. And what happens is my company then it's like, okay, we have to see it. This is trouble because they then they reached my company since research on the show. You know, we're the big national show, and so they want to make sure and do research

and see what people people are feeling. They have to test me talking about the song without my knowledge to see if people were getting upset about it, and they weren't. And my companies like, okay, well people aren't doing what every not every what A lot of program directors are complaining about it's not real. And then I have a

and so I played it, played that played. It wasn't a single yet still had a friend of the Washington Post whatever whatever, it began, a controversy, whatever, whatever, next thing, you know, love it, like I was so happy for them. I was so I in my room. I don't keep a lot of stuff because then it just gets into it. But I have, you know, Liz and Hillary and Laurie did their handwrote the lyrics to Girl Crushing, wrote a

note and have that frame. And that's so of all the things that I have, like that one's really important to me because again I'm just a fan of music and I just put on stuff I like. I gotta tell you something real funny about the domino effect of what happened with Girl Crust that affected me. This is so funny that we're sitting here talking about it. You don't even know some of the vibrations that are put out there. So when that record came out, I had

a couple of songs on that record. One of them was um Quit breaking Up with Me was the first song on the record. It was in contention to the first single, really strange song wrote Natalie himby um and so it was going to be the second single, and then their plan was that Girl Crush would be third. But Girl Crush started having this life and the record came out and it started selling. So the reason this all these different things happened is I was actually in

Texas with Casey. We were writing for pageant material, and Jason is her manager and Little Big Towns manager, and so Jason and Natalie and I are together in Texas and Jason calls and says, I gotta tell you guys something. We're gonna have to change the single to girl Crush because radio has you know, taken off and so we're

not gonna go with quit breaking up with me. And so at the same time that this was happening, Miranda had recorded a song of Natalie and Eyes called Smoking and Drinking and they were going to put it out as her second single off the record, the record that was out at the time, and so Jason not meaning to, of course, but at the time, Girl Crush was gonna

be a struggle. It was gonna be hard. This was not gonna be They knew they were in for a fight, so they asked Miranda to not put out Smoking and Drinking so that Little Big Town wouldn't be competing against themselves, right, So we ended up getting the fourth single off that record that did nothing. So we Natalie and I in one swoop of the strong handed girl Crush lost two singles I Cost You and U or I Cost You

never actually told that story like that. But when you were saying that that that Natalie and I were both like, wow, this is happening. We were walking down this road in Texas. I'm not joking, this gravel road, and we were like working it out, walking like we just lost two singles in one swoop. And you know, at that time we didn't really know. We we were hopeful that those songs would both have a chance. Eventually the quick breaking up

with me didn't. But it may be at Wilson Day, but smoking and drinking sort of got you know, we came after like Little Red Wagon that radio had already sort of you know, put the brakes on that record. So it's just funny at all. No, I'm not mad at you at all. He looked away when he said that. By the way, I'm a big body language reader. And when he said that, his eyes completely might you see him mind and they completely diverted. Um, what what what

have here? Mike? I'll talk about Blue Apron for just one second, and Blue Apron comes to the house, actually comes to the door, and inside the box it's a lot of ingredients and not just random ingredients, but ingredients to make these awesome meals. There's a you can get into recipe every week. They put them up Blue Apron as a culinary team, and you can even check it. They'll be like, well, they'll be surprising that they're so good or so different. Recipes are not repeated within a year,

you'll never get bored. And for less than ten dollars per person per mell, Blue Apron delivered seasonal recipes along with preportioned ingredients to make delicious home cooked meals. And again they're preportioned so you're not buying a big box or something when you only need just a little cut of it, so it's guaranteed to be fresh. And there's a recipe card that comes with the two so step by step directions. Blue Apron. Just do this. Go to Blue Apron dot com slash Bobby cast get your first

three meals for free. Right boom, Blue Apron dot com slash Bobby cast. You love how get it fills and tastes Blue Apron dot com slash Bobby cast. I love Blue Apron. Blue Apron is a better way to cook, all right, So we have some more songs here. Let's see how about man I love it when my friends like have great things right and these these my buds here stay a little long upper Brothers I was born.

Oh god, this is this is one of those nice surprises I used to always talk about to Ashley Gourley because he would write these songs with these artists and then they would just after fifty weeks of being on the chart, they would go to number one, and I would say that never happens to me like that either die in the forties or they're on a big artist and you know they're going. And I love Brothers all more. I mean, two of the greatest guys. They're just root

for them absolutely. And John and I are a lot closer than than t J. But as because Lucy and I are at John's wife. We're really regular good friends. But man, you talk about just the talented dudes, they're just and t J's voice, I think he's he's my favorite.

I mean, I love his voice. And uh so, yeah, that one was that one was just one of those really fun ones because the fact when it started to catch and you started to see it happening, and it had been out for twenty weeks before it went top thirty, and then it started to catching like oh my god. And when that's the kind of stung that you knew if people heard it they would like it because it's just so They just sound so good. You know how this one here your wrote different for girls? Was this

red is a duet? No, it was. Actually there were a huge contemplation of when we wrote it, if we put a girl singing the demo or a guy. I ended up singing the demo because we thought it was a little edgier for a guy to say. So, did you want a guy to sing it? When you all said down, if you wrote it, yeah, you did want it. I thought it would have more effect if a guy said it. I didn't think a guy would say it, but I thought it would be a better risk, you know,

like a bigger payoff if a guy said it. If a girl says it, girls say that a lot, it sounds a little more like they're complaining something, yeah, and guy sounds like they're respecting. A lot of people had to have a problem with this song. I mean, look, when you live in the bubble of our I'm sure you get this. There are things that I read or go on boards and things and see people talking about songs. So I know things that the average person wouldn't notice

about different for girls. But a lot of people thought, you know, that that that song was stereo typing girls, and girls would say, I'm I'm not like that. I don't you know, I'm not sitting crying in the corner. And the truth was, we didn't. We didn't think it was about every girl. We just thought in general, girls have a harder in some ways, they have it easier because they are vulnerable and they will say the way they feel. We were really trying to shed a good

light on that. You know. Anyway, how about this one? Couldn't you you smile a little more on this one? Yeah? This song? I wrote this with Matt Ramsey and Trevor Rosen from Old Dominion, who are two of my best friends, and it was it was the first time the three of us that had to hit together and we've written for years and uh, yeah, this song, I don't know, it's just what's funny is the the idea And you

can probably hear this in hearing it. I wrote this and stay a little longer, very close in time together and uh, the initial idea they on my like pad of paper in my phone where I put notes. They're in the same uh the say you do goes into a thing about one thing leads to another, leads to another leadst or another. They ended up being two songs that they kind of you know, they're kind of cousins. You do that a lot. You just take your phone

and go, oh, this could be something. Jot down, because I do that with stand up and go there's a concept right down because I don't forget it, and you know you will and then I'll come back to it later. So is that the same thing as you do with a songwriter. Yes. And the most annoying part for me is that my my most creative moment is right before I fall asleep. I don't know if you have that. It's sort of like like you ever wake up, I'm asleep and go, I gotta record this right now, and

we don't want to like get up and go. Yeah, yes, so I do that. My phone is full of ideas and sayings and things people say a lot of times it's just I don't even know what it means. When I go back and read it, I have to put a note by it. It's all try to remember what I was thinking. I do that I'll wake up. Especially with the Radioto is different because it's we're talking about things happening in the world. I want to do stand up. Those are concept I as much like a song. So

it's like I have a bad idea write down. But when I was writing the kids album, um I did a kids album and it was the number one kids Haplumen, which was crazy because what do I know. And so I wake up and I'm like, okay, and I recorded on my phone and it sounds like this, it goes I grow Up, and I was like, I called Deerk Passley. I said, dude, this is gonna be terrible. This is you're gonna I'm gonna send you this thing, but it's terrible.

But I was asleep and I have this idea called when I grow Up and it's and so Eric and I and he brought Phil Barton over because Phil had written for Thomas Tank and he had done so we all sit around and wrote when I grow Up. But it started with the worst one am voice memo ever of me just going I want to be farming. And I was like, dude, it sounds like Bob Dylan is

have drunk. But you know, with that to me, reads like I always say that songs are already written, like they're always say they're in the rocks and you have to chisel everything else out of the way. That's what it is. Those memos are. To me, it's almost like there's a blanket over the song and you it's like if you could just you know what I mean, and it sounds like you're like, I mean, you're kind of it's almost like somebody's covering up the clear thought because

you have to go in there and find it. That's the weirdest thing, because songs float, I feel, I feel like they're like alive and they're like, you know, kind of floating around, just waiting for someone to reach up and grab them. That it's like people that have a sixth sense that can talk to people on the other side.

Or I think that when you create and you have those kind of ideas, you have a sense of it's like part of the brain that you're not able to get to whenever you're all your senses are working, that when you shut down absolutely or or that that other part of your brain will say that's stupid, that's not a good idea. What song just fell out of you? It's like it shouldn't be this easy, like what song? And I don't look at it. I don't know, thinking of like I have them all. I got to be

honest with you. Marry Go Around was written really fast, uh, because we had an idea. Actually, my mom said the line. She was talking about our neighbor, and she said it in front of Josh Osborne. Josh said, why are there so many cars at your neighbor's house? And my mom said, I don't know, Josh, they're selling Mary Kay or Mary

Jane or something. And we laughed. But then Josh and I were in the car and we were driving out to the ranch where we were gonna beet Casey and I said, man, but all the all the things that are symbolized by the word Mary, from Mary Christmas to the Virgin Mary. You know, we always used the name Mary as a placeholder and Merry Go Round, and so we just listed all these things when we actually sat down to write it, and Casey was the one who heard it as a sad song. Um it did. I don't.

I would say it took us less than two hours. Which song was like that there was a hit was like just you said you mentioned body like a background. That one, that's the one. It's the one that was like you just it took a long time. Well, it was because he had an idea that we just couldn't quite The way it sounds is exactly the way he always knew it was gonna sound, basically, but he couldn't. We were overwriting, overwriting, overwriting. You know, Josh and I

and Zach did that track. It's unbelievable. Josh and I would just try to clever it to death. Body like a back road, like we were trying to make every metaphor for a woman's body and a back road, and all we ended up getting in there metaphorically was like, uh, with my eyes closed, driving with my eyes closed. I know every curve like the back of my hand. But beyond that it would get cheesy. But we still can't help but be songwriters and want to just make it

just like, oh, we can just be so clever. Sam just kept editing those things out and saying, it's got to feel like a playful conversation. So I would say that was difficult because he he did most of the work, but time wise, I would I couldn't even tell you the number of hours spend on that song weeks. Where do you think you need to be in your life to write the best songs? Meaning what emotional state do

you write the best songs in? I think for me, uh, it is it does happen when the collaboration is right, because I used to write songs by myself, but now I really don't. And if I'm sitting with someone and we have a real spiritual moment about something that either they're going through or I'm going through, that to me is when you can connect with something. I mean, I don't think my best songs get recorded. Um. Uh. One of my best songs has been recorded, but it wasn't

a single. My a song called come Back to Me that Keith Urban recorded and what had happened was, Um, my husband had said to me a few years ago, he made a comment that I had never heard anyone say. We were joking talking about someone else being good looking, and he said, well, if there was somebody else that would make you happier, And he wasn't being an ass, he said, I would want you to have everything that you ever wanted. I mean, that's that's how much I

love you. I don't adhere to that I do not have that big of us. I'm not that spiritually evaulved But I was telling Brandy Clark and Trevor Rose in that story and they were like, wow, I mean, what a thing to say. So there we went and listed these things of like if there's dance floors you you ain't made a move on, you know, and if there's if there's some saying that you ain't wrote your name in, and uh, go and do everything because the line in the courses, um, I want to hold you, but I

don't want to hold you back. And uh, you know it's not a it's not where radio is those kind of songs, but it is where my favorite moments are something like that. It was a real we just had a really cool day, Brandy and Trevor not talking about wouldn't it be nice to love like that where you

really couldn't let someone go for their good? Um, I would hold on for dear life and you know, probably like stalk but um, but anyway that I don't you know, I don't know if that was a long winded answer to your question of when you're songs written, it's just a I think a lot of times is just the magic in the room. We'll talk about a couple of my favorite artists that I mean, listen, on the talent scale, a pretty far more talented than I am. We do have a lot of similar taste, though I can say

we're similarly. We have a lot of I'm a humongous Walker Hayes fan and when he was just making his own stuff and would know, but I've just been a Walking Hates fan forever. And so he's the most unique and the most prolific songwriter I've ever known. I mean it. He just it's hard for me to even get in his brain because if that makes sense, because a lot of times you can collaborate with someone you want to see the world they do. He just sees with different

He has like a different box of crayons. I've written with them, and it's it's it's like talking to someone who is in eleventh grade when you're on a eight you're doing an eighth grade textbook. Absolutely, and I find it I'll be honest with you, and he, I mean, he, he knows this. It's difficult. I find it hard because I often find myself my ego gets involved and I feel a little stupid because he he can trick out a line and add something that I just would have settled,

and I don't. And I have a very high standard. I mean, I consider my bar to be pretty high. But but he just he just has something. I think that that box of crayons analogy. I've never said that, but that is that is what I think. He's just he has more crayons in his box than the rest of us. Yeah, a lot, a lot. And Walker is out, you know, and I get to watch him every night and he just gets better and better better. He's if as a performer, but it is a songwriter and just

a word smith, if that's even a thing. And the song he wrote for you, we wrote a song called namastate Agether. Yes, I love it. It is. I mean the fact that, y'all even when I saw the title, of course, I can't be surprised by any title he

sends me. Yeah. So, and then this was the two he was like, I said, hey, dude, we were going back and for texting before we were writing, and grab we're going with we have a different he's so whatever, and I'm like, hey, let's add some funny stuff like beat it like Jackson like and so we write it. And I said, hey, dude, if you want this song, you can have it, because if you don't, like I know, he wrote it for me, but if you don't, I'm gonna use it. I'm gonna cut it. But if you

want it, you can have it. And he's like, man, you take it for now, but but we'll see. And I was like, let me know. And so it's I mean, your girlfriend does a lot of yoga. I've heard you talking. Oh yeah, she does, and that's where and I was able to yes, it's a very real song. I mean, that's the thing he can. People have not even heard this.

There's a song that Walking and I wrote called Namas Day and it's about I started doing yoga my girlfriend does because she does yoga, and and it was like no mistay, but it's like no, I'm gonna stay, Like no, I'm going to stay. It was like a dope. It was like a walker Hayes brains like. So I was like, did he I was talking about doing yoga and I was like hey, and I said, like three ideas and he comes back with this and then all of a sudden,

he was like, dude, let's do a Namasta song. And I'm like okay, and it wasn't now I'm gonna stay. First it was like it seems like that's where it would have started, but that's where it ended up. And that was him was like, why don't we turn this into NA must stay? And I'm like, okay, got it. And then we just we wrote an hour forty five minutes, like we sat down. He said, I mean it's so good, and it was, um, yeah, we And I told him

we were out last weekend. I was like, dude, you should come in and at least partially produced a song like it's so like oh and he and he's so, I mean, he knows how to do that, you know. The thing that brought that up was what I was referring to was the song pain that he wrote about hearing his song on the radio. I was in my

hometown in Minnerl's, Texas. I was there for actually high school teacher of mine was the like she was the coming home queen this year, like she's eighty years old and it was some anniversary and I went and walked her and I was there. So I'm at the gym in my hometown working out, and he sent that song to me pain. I was literally I was dumbfounded. I mean I wish I had it playing because it's not

available in the gym. Yeah, I mean just the fact that he I mean they put it as an email and insid of a newsletter, and that second verse when he it's just it's it's really it's almost hard to listen to. It's that. That's right. That's how good it is. That it makes you name is perfect. If something can make you uncomfortable, if it's something can just make you feel again, it's that million lights And how do you get used to shine through? If something can just make

you feel period something it just feels something exactly. And I'll play a little bit of pain here. And by the way, why I talk about Walker is Walker is now on Monument, which is part of a label. You have an imprint that you're running right right, So Walker president of Monument Records and Walker first I was Factory Speakers, and on me Bobby Bone played a song and I wrote about I got two songs on one. I was like, that's an odd version of pain, uh, for all our technologies.

It mixed. Yeah, I played a little bit more of this. Here we go two thousand sixteen seven something in the morning. I was driving when a dream come true came through my high the factory speakers and on me Bobby Bones played a song and I wrote about lonely beer and a fresh it's one of my doctors. What you hear is how it felt. From the Broken in My Heart

was about addiction, love, loss and recovery. Trust me when we wrote it, because I had to get it out of me for Nashville, not for readio from nobody bought me. And maybe that trouble so pressing rewind wrestling demons like mine looking for a company in this design that doesn't really feel so grand all the time. Even if my name wasn't in it, I would be like, no, I mean, I can't I it never does it make it's because

it's so freaking you know. And I know his story and and and a note, and I know I've been down in those ways and the way the music businesses. You put everything into it and it doesn't mean you're gonna get anything out of it. And he and he came in and he talked about that he's been dropped and picked up, dropped and stuff, and he told a story and if you're just listening to this one. You have to listen to the Walker Hayes when I encourage you to, because he told the story of him and

there's did you have what the wine with the Walker? Yes? Well, he's like I was playing a puckets and this kid that idolized me come up to me and he had to ask Walker to ask him for a job. I know, I hadn't heard that story until the y'all's uh Bobby, Bobby Castles, who's called it? But um, he also you said something in and I wanted to bring up to you. It's really really great. I loved it, you said, um, and you said it off the cuff. You may not

even remember saying it. You said because even falling forward is forward motion, and I you were talking about and I can't honestly remember even in context what you were talking about. You're talking about falling down, people doing the wrong thing. Quote. You know that that still it doesn't matter if you get knocked down. Falling forward is forward motion. I believe that, but I've never heard it said that way. It's really it was really I loved it. Thanks. And

you have you have two artists right now. You have Walker and your Caitlin Smith, and it was like, you would have made a label with my favorite artist, like your Showigning the People. I love Caitlin so much. I took Caitlin on the road with this too. I love so much. I love her, her music, her void, everything. I just it's just amazing. Like it's like I texted Jason, I was like, I mean, can I buy part of this imprint? Like how do I may need investors? How

do I invest into this? Because he said she's so good. I can't wait for the news and oh god, she and she just cut you probably know what she just cut five new things and uh, I mean this song. I can't. I have to be honest. I did not know a lot of about her until she was brought in for the monument thing. I knew her name, and I knew this town is killing me. I knew that song, and I had written, had actually written with Caitlin years ago.

But but I but seeing that, I have to tell you, seeing the girls singing live is I mean, it's like you're seeing one of the great truly. Yep, It's like, okay, it's doesn't matter when it's gonna happen, right. There are some people you look at and go had to happen. Yet oh it will. Oh yeah, there's no I mean,

there's no stopping it. She's nobody. God doesn't give someone a voice like that without I mean, that is a this we're talking like Adele Level saying, I mean, I use a del because she's are, you know, sort of the queen. But but when you look back over voices a wreatha um, Whitney Houston, I have no problem with you compared to the because those people. I mean, that's the thing. She sings just as good. She's just not famous yet and yet is the thing. And I remember, well,

I'm just a huge fan and she's a sweetheart. I mean, I can't not love her. She's just a real girl. And isn't that the key I found the key for me in my life, in my life and my career. Just surround yourself one with really good people and people that they often have be motivated, but the kids. Just amound yourself because it makes you better. I think you

attract I wish that I was. I don't think I'm necessarily the great judge of people right when I meet them, but I have consistently been put in the path people that are wonderful. And so I think because I know that, like I kind of trust people, probably too soon, because my experiences have been that I've just have angels around me. I mean that's I say that all the time in the in the friendship and relationships of working, you know,

in music, it's all it all blends family. It's not the greatest people around me, and uh so I just I'll just get in that flow. I don't, you know, for me, it's been accidental, but what what a great it's been a charmed a charmed path in that regard. Caitlin is such a good writer too. I'm just thinking because I'm as and I about to go to my girlfriends out. She's putting out a record, and so um, Caitlyn wrote one, Lindsay wrote most songs, and she picked

up two outside songs. One is from a Caitlin song and one to Ryan heard song two of my friends. And it's just weird how this town is just well, it's it also seems like Caitlin like the fact that Lindsay Sharker is coming out right now, and there's a couple of other records coming out with Kitlin, Sonny and Smokeler, you have songs. Yeah, it's good. It's a good moment.

And and Walker also is starting to have a cool you know, I was gonna say when when he when Payne was playing, he talks about Beer in the Fridge and Keith Urban texted me the day you played that, I didn't even know you were gonna play it. And this is so nobody ever knows anything I wanna play well in. Walker didn't know either, clearly. Keith texted me, they'll check this out. This is crazy. He texted me and said, I just heard a song called Beer in the Fridge on the radio. I would bet money you

have something to do with it. And I took it as such an insane compliment, and I was like, why would you think that? And he was just like, I don't know. I just felt like something and it was your kind of story, and he was right, And I was like that I take that such a compliment because that song is so special to Walker. But the fact that Keith heard any any of my influence in that, you know what I mean, He didn't know Walker or

what I mean. He probably has heard his name, but um, he obviously listens to you and loves you and I love Keith Urban two. He's certainly one of my people like that. I was and and we'll we'll wrap it um. But that Urban dude like he I was in Australia and he textic goes, are you in Australia? Come to my house? And I'm like, why it's Christmas Eve too, I'm I might coming to a Christmas I'm not coming.

I said, I'm not coming to your house with Christmas Eve and he's like, it's just Nick and not some of our family, like you Unlensy come over and I was like, okay, I know, like it's it's right. It's bizarre. It's like they're a little big talent. Keith, there are these people and you're like, why what, I'm just an idiot on the radio. But I I feel like the person in the corner just being so glad that they even listened to my songs. And I never went across

the line. I feel like me, but they just they literally pull you over the line. They're like, so we're are friends. This is I'm a normal person. But I still it's hard for me to accept it. And it has been a really enjoyable talk for me. The same. I hope you've enjoyed it. For me, it was like, I'm not kidding. One of my friends who is is does pr for me. She worked at green Room, and so she text me. She goes, hey, you know you should get on the Bobby Cast And I'm like, who

shows Shane. I'm not kidding. She goes Shane mcinally. I said he's coming over like thirty minutes, seriously not kidding, and she's like no. I was like, he's he's on the way. He had stick class week, He's coming over this week. And she was like, oh my good. Anyway, it's just weird, like look at this here hold On has Shane mcinlight the body guest he should that was set today at that is really weird, especially because we

were gonna do it last week. So the fact that we did it today and I was like, uh see it, I'll tell you that's not like he should and he is. I've really enjoyed that much. For for everything you do for the I mean, it's just it's it is, you know, coincidental of how many things because of our taste that we work on that you have championed. But you really do have a lot to do with the things that I get involved with, and I'm afraid no one's ever

going to hear them. Um, because you really do dig and find these things that, uh that I hope we're going to make a difference long term, and so thank you for doing that. I I just I think we both just do what we love and we feel awkward people thank us for doing something we love. I mean, you have to understand when when I'm working on these songs that don't quite fit, or working with these artists that don't quite fit, they have to have a live shown on them. And you're not afraid to do that.

You don't wait for someone else to tell you that it's good. That's very unusual in this business, and you have to just know that it means a lot. Thank you. I feel very awkward, but I'm just gonna see you're welcome and move on. I do not do well with compliment at all. Uh, It's it's really been a pleasure. Thank you for coming by. I'm a huge fan. And now because I met your husband and love, we had

a great time. He told me. I was I was like, I've met everybody in the whole world, but she so we have like thank you'll see each other all the time. Will be great. I'll see at the want of these games. Yeah, I'll see yeah. Shane mcinaley Here, episode what Mikelo just five? Episode five? Shane mcinale, You want to promote anything, right night? Twitter? And I think you promoted the show and promoting the crap out of me a Shane mcnealian. And we'll back

next time Monday or next week. I think Aubrey Seller is coming in. Aubrey is awesome, and I mean yeah, and you mentioned her earlier. She's she's the best. So okay, I guess we're gonna go fin everybuddy,