Episode 34 - Natalie Hemby (2-2-17)

is good. I should just get this out of the way. I've seen you out before, but been a little intimidated to come up and say hello, Oh my goodness, because you have one of those presences about you. Well, it's just if you. I'm sure people would say the same about you, though, Like I don't go out either. This was an anomaly. If you saw me out, it was like, you know, a songwriter or you know, one of the industry events, and I was like, I don't want to go. I just feel like I bother people. So I'm a

big fan, Like I'm a big fan of yours. Can bother me anytime. I will bother you after this a lot. So, uh, Natalie's here, we have a lot to talk about because when we lined up and started doing these um thirty four episodes ago, we pick like ten people that we wanted to talk to, and it was you were on the list, and I was like, Caitlin Smith and Marin and you have people that I'm close to that I know have really great stories, and throughout all of this

you can see all of those. But it's an odd time because since then you also have a record too, So we have so much to talk about. We have so much to talk about it. So, yes, I have some great stories too. So let's start from the very beginning. Yes, let's start from I want to run through, but just just so everybody gets hooked real quick. I want to play quickly all six of your number ones in a very quick montage, and then I want to break down your whole life and make you cry. It's really all right,

Natalie Hanby's here. Uh. Number ones include Miranda White liar, your fingers still pops? You still like that one? Huh? I love it still. That's cool. It's because some artists will be like, I'm so tired of it. You know, yes, but I saw your finger pop immediately. That's so cool when someone still loves it after that long. But I haven't heard in a while. I was like, this sounds pretty damn good. How about this one downtown lady A

I don't know why, take me down town anywhere? Also a little big town Pontoon, catch Tornado, a little big town Miranda Automatic. By the way, you won the a c M, nominated for CMA, not only for a Grammy have songer that you're on this one right right? That's all that right? Yes, okay, that's back. I'm trying to a c M, and then nominated for Graham It one for a c M. Yeah, and then justin Moore, you

look like I need a drink. Look black And that's just the surface, just wonderybody know what kind of powerhouse? That's why I'm intimidated quite frankly, oh my goodness, not at all like I feel like you and I could be completely wrong on this, but because you know how you see people through your eyes like I, I look at other people through my experiences and judge them based on that, right, and since I am at times a very vulnerable creator, I look at someone like you and go, man,

what what's hurt to do? All of that and to see your catalog it's kind of crazy. You know what, I don't really know, I, um, you know what I've been writing. I've literally got my first publition do when I was nineteen, and um I started with Barbara Overson still working music group, which there's a funny story story there. Literally I thought for years that Roy Overson was blind,

and I was like, because he had the glasses. Barbara, I was like, Barbara, tell me when it was you know, what's it like living with someone who's blind, Like what kind of challenges did Roy have? And she was like, not to leave he was not blind because she's German or whatever. But I, you know, I've just been writing songs for so long. I never thought, honestly, I would be doing country music because, um, well, first of all, my whole family is in the music business. My dad

is an amazing guitar player. And I'm not saying that because of my family. Um he's he's actually won a Grammy and he's literally played on all these Christian records and also a lot of pop records back in the nineties when this was like the heyday for it. Like what pop records did your dad play on? In the nineties. He played on Brian McKnight's record. He's played with Michael McDonald. He just played on I don't know which record. Well I am too, and I should know this and I don't.

But that's but he was one of those musicians. He just played on just of records, you know. And he also wrote songs um for Amy Grant like Amy Grant is like our family. My mom's worked with her for over thirty years as her personal assistant, and my dad, Um, he wrote on a few he played on her records and he but he wrote some songs on like baby Baby and yeah no he didn't right baby on the record Bay. Yeah. Actually I think it's called heart Emotion.

See I'm getting all these wrong. But m Yeah, he was an amazing business And my uncle Ron, who was an amazing singer. He was in this band called Buffalo Club and they had like a top ten in country music and like ninety six. And you didn't think you even though you were You're from Nashville. No, I know. Um I was born here, that I was raised here with my parents. Moved he when I was two. But um no, I wanted to do rocky music. I wanted to do like Cheryl Crowe, like kind of like Alana Smar.

All that kind of stuff was on the radio. A little fair was huge whenever I was trying to get a record deal, and I kind of wanted to. I loved the more roots rock, like Tom Petty kind of stuff, and I tried to get a record deal for years on that. But you know what, radio changed so quickly in those years. It was like it went from like first of all melismas singing, from like Mariah Carey to Whitney Houston to like then it went to like Nirvana and all the grunge rock, and then it was the

dawning of the Britney Spears era. And throughout all this whole process, I was just trying to find my own sound, my own way. And um, I almost got a huge record deal with Columbia Records. I think it was which or somewhere around there. I'm pretty sure if I if I looked through this contract, I probably still would be signed there and they probably owned everything that I have literally,

But anyways, it's what happened with that leventh hour. No, we're not signed anyone, It just it didn't work out. And you know who was going to do my record. J Joyce really and so that was you know, J Joyce playing wall Fly. I mean that J. Joyce was doing a lot of Oh he did Patty Griffin Flaming Red, which I was a huge fan of, and he Macy Gray's record and I am Shelby Lenney had a song in there. And now he's here and he's like the

biggest producer in country. He totally is. It's it's really crazy. And you're talking about Crow, one of my all time favorites, like that Music Club album and Change My Life Me too, Me too. I remember listening to it on Western at Tower Records, and I think it was like ninety four and I was like, holy shit, I love this Sorry about and um, I was like I love this record. And the reason why I was because I so related to her voice because I have what I call party

girl voice. I'm always a little hoarse, and I just had a deeper rasp your voice, and I don't know, I just loved your singing, you know. And I love the record. And I was looking at who wrote the songs and who played on it, and Bill Patrell was amazing and all those guys were Dave Barrewald, who played on it. But um, so she was like she was my she's my favorite too. She's literally my idol. And and I'm assuming you've got to know her and as much as I loved her music, like just as a person,

just more. And I don't like to meet people that I really love because you can't you'll be let down. I'm the same way. I don't want to meet my heroes. No, they say, don't meet your heroes, But I'm telling you, I'm glad I met mine. I love her to pieces and even on a personal level with her with with Cheryl and and stuff that I haven't talked about on the air, but one of my best friends and the one on the show, has been adopting and Cheryl was huge,

like instrumental off the year, no radio anything. Has just been such a great like she's so generous with her time, with telling other influential people. Absolutely and and um you know, it's funny because I'm like, I feel like she doesn't know she's Cheryl Crow, which kind of makes me laugh. But I'm also I'm so glad I met her later on in life. You know, I think if I would have been young and I met her, I would have just been fan girling her. Still, I have a picture

of us hugging in it. I keep it hidden, but it's like the first time I got to hug Chill Crow like. I loved her too well. And if she text me, I literally have sort of like texting right now. That's funny. Cool. So when you started and you were going to put out a record, as you know, nineteen, how old you were with Columbia, I was very was very attractive and very skinny, and I was absolutely gorgeous, and I was going to put on this amazing record.

I'm just kidding, sorry as all nineteen Seriously, what did you think you sounded like? Then? Was it the jagged Little Pill Atlantis was? Yes, it was probably actually was across Tree atlant Us and Cheryl I would think it was very um, you know, I part of the term. It was very balls to the walls, like I loved that kind of music, just rock music, you know, with like kind of rolling stones, you know, that sort of thing. Um,

it was interesting. And I wrote actually with Tommy Lean James on a lot of these songs, which here's a roundabout circle. Then I got a roommate, her name was Cindy Thompson and I introduced her to her and Tommy and and they've basically they've made a record together. They

want all these awards. Um And Cindy was a great country music artist, but I wanted to do rock like full on and I loved bands like Semi Sonic um all for those who don't know Semi Sonic for example, close in Time every Night and then now Dan Wilson is Mr. Songwriter extraordinaire wrote um, someone like You by Adele you know, and so that's been pretty full circle as well. But it's crazy, it's crazy. And how much that sound now? Is this sound now? How some then?

Is this sound now? Like if you took Tuesday Night Music Club and you just took it and said, hey, here's this new record, yes, check it out. I'll be like, Okay, I gotta play all this on the year today and it sounds fresh and new on the country on country radio. Well, and you know who else I love back then is Beck? I still love Back. I think he makes amazing and changes constantly, constantly like every time Beck, because I'm a

huge Back fan too. Every time Beck changes. And again, I wasn't alive when Bob Dylan went like, but I always think when he went from back to back to back, there's like every time, it's like that Bob Dylan thing where it like what the is happen? Like, Oh this is awesome? Yeah, And it might take you a year to catch on to what he was doing, but he's he's brilliant and I always loved his writing styles too,

just like the quirky. One of my favorite is uh done some Good Old Boy on ohd A. I played that totally album backward and forward from like you know, two turntables on a microphone, like right, I mean, I mean it's classics. You Devil's hair cut all like it's got a devil's hair. I just play that on alternative radio. I will play that all the time. I haven't thought about that song forever. Wow, So that was you then? Yes, Yeah it was. We were basically the same person then too.

I think I think we were. I'm telling you, dude, we might be cousins or something. And we're both from the South, so we very well could be U from Arkansas, Okay, so we could have We do probably might have family a walnut Red Arkansas. So and when you're in Arkansas, you know, every town in Arkansas because because it's just Arkansas. So you try and you you don't sign, and so

you started writing songs. Did you just want to be a writer then, or was it like, Okay, that didn't work, I'm not going to pursue the artist part of it. You know what I was. I was devastated. I was very disappointed, and um, you know, I didn't know what. But for some reason, I'm like a tome X. I take a licking and keep on chicken. But um, I

got knocked down from it. But I I basically I had a publishing deal, and then I met my husband and we became really good friends, and then literally got engaged and we got married and we were like, let's move out to l A. Because I grew up here in Nashville, and I loved Nashville, but I also hated it. I was like George Bailey in Bedford Falls, like this was my Bedford Falls. I wanted to leave here. I was like, I'm gonna go places. I'm doing this with

my life, damn it. I'm gonna have this huge record deal and I gonna be singing on all kinds of stuff. And it just never It just I always hit a wall and never worked out for me. And so my husband I we got married and literally about a month later, who he is a producer as well, but a month later we we came high talent. No, we moved out to l A. Lived out there for a few months and man, just like a month's Yeah, we didn't stay

very long. We came high telling it back home because l A is so hard to live and and especially if you don't have a lot of money, it's expensive. The very expensive people are very affected. Yes, out there too. That's why it's hard for me growing up in the South. Yeah, and where people are people, Yeah, it's it's like you're walking into a plastic well. You just feel like after all the people out that I've really loved from out there were either from l A or they were from

the Midwest. But it was so funny because it was like I found myself either try It's like you either become l A or you get eaten up by l A. You know. And when I go somewhere, I found myself going, who's this and what are they doing? How can they help me? And I hate that more than anything. Do you feel like that because I do a little bit

now too. But don't you feel like that now a bit too because you're at the level you are, or don't you kind of wonder why people because no nobody wants my friend, Like really, if I don't have a job, cool job, nobody want my friend. I don't think you might wouldn't be my friend either. Maybe they think I was funny or something. But I don't know, No, I don't know. There is a little bit of that. I think, you know, it just kind of comes to territory. But it's also um a great way to set an example.

I guess you know what I mean. So, but I definitely when you're out in l A. When I was out there at the time, I definitely felt like I just didn't like the person I was. And so we came home a few months for a few months. Yes we did, Yes we did, and we started in nice area, but it was like we didn't have any money. It was just not fun. So but on my last day there, I met with a publisher out there and with Sony Publishing, and I had a great meeting. And so I came

home and I told her I was moving back. So her name was Kathleen Carey and she's awesome. Came home, got a job at Comcast because we needed health insurance. Worked there for like two to three years. In the meantime, my husband gets this job to produce co produce with Frank Lindell Um this girl Miranda Lambert who was third runner up on National Star New Artists from TV basically artists from TV, and also my ad. That was another thing that was changing the formats as well as TV.

You know, from American Idol to I mean everything you can imagine all the TV shows. So anyways, you almost had to be on a TV show during that time to get a record deal. I mean that's almost like what they were looking for. So he started working with Miranda and then they started all having an I mean literally Mike used to come home and play all these records.

I mean he played, produced, um engineered, mixed all like the first three records, and I just heard her music through the house all the time, and I would sing harmony. I sing harmony on all her records and stuff. But in the meantime, I'm still working at Comcast, and then I also then I also got a publishing deal with Sony in l A once it's like my last bid to try to be an artist. So I went out.

I didn't go out to l A, but I was just writing for this project and they once again, I was meeting with labels, I mean literally at someone told me. They were like, well, she's kind of old to have a deal right now, and which is all there is to me, I mean, which it makes it just makes for a great story now, but at the time I was pissed. I was like, I'm not old. But um, anyways, none of that worked out. But Mike was doing so well and he was um doing all this stuff with

her and then David neil Elien band. But he finally was like, hey, you should write with my wife. I mean, and she had met me because I would saying with on her records and stuff, and I'm saying with her on a couple of things too, and she was like, Gnalie, I want to write with you on this next record, and I was like, you call me. I don't. I'm like, I'm available, you just tell me when you have time. So she ended up calling me and finally and literally

we wrote eight songs in two days. And it's because I mean I literally had all these ideas I've just been saving for and it was White Liar, only prettier. Let's talk about that. Let's let me stop your for a second. Just for those at home, you wrote eight songs in two days. Now, most writing sessions people put to, you know, four to five hours aside and go, we're gonna write, and then you come up with a song and you get and hopefully you demo it and it's

a thing. Yeah, it is. And and sometimes that friends who double rights, no right, and that's a lot Like you do a double right with two songs. You're exhausted. You did eight songs and two days. Yes, you know what. We're in a At the time, she lived in Texas and I only had her for a couple of days, and I was like, I'm like, I'm gonna drink coffee and I'm gonna write my brains out. I don't care. I'm like, I just wanted to get. But the thing about I liked about it was I really love the songs.

I had been working on the title White Liar for a while and I was trying to make it as dark, mysterious thing, and it was just Yeah, she literally came up with that chorus like that, like just so easy. So you have the title, but you don't have it yet. You have the title, so how do you how do you say? Hey? I wanted a song called White Liar,

Like what do you say? Well? I was like, I have this idea, and I was like, I said, I've just been trying to come up with something and I haven't come up with anything yet for it, Like for Only Prettier, I had it very mapped out. Um, I had basically mostly the verse and the chorus mostly written. But with a White Liar. I was like, I didn't know where to go with it, and she goes, well, I don't know, Like what about like hey, I liar?

Juth comes out a little at a time and I was like that like that literally and I was like, oh my gosh, yes, And I was like we we wrote it in thirty minutes. Would that be the moment that you went Okay, she's really special? Yeah, I would

say that would be. But I'll tell you what. On her first record, she wrote love is Looking for You Now by herself and she also wrote care Sing by herself too, but I love is looking for You Now is like what an amazing song that was if anybody could ever go back and listen to that, they need to. It was so and she wrote it when she was sixteen, and I was just like, damn, this girl is really good, Like she's I don't know, I really have always known that Mirando is a great writer. Would that be the

first big check that you got with White Liar? Oh yeah, yes, the first mailbox money. We were like, holy crap, like I can actually not work at Comcast. Absolutely, And honestly, it's probably the song that's maybe the most money because usually your first hits are the ones that keep generating because they that's what they always get back and play over and over and over again for years. So if you can have a first hit with an artist, that's

a really great thing. And the great thing is it's her first hit as well, her first number one, you know, Kerosene. I totally thought Kerosene or gunpowtern Lead all those should have been number one, but they just weren't at the time, um for whatever reason. But that was her first number one and my first number one. It was really special to get to share that with her. You know, that's awesome.

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plus a box of chocolates for free. One eight hundred flowers dot com slash bones one hundred flowers dot com slash bones and don't wait, because what's gonna happen is it's gonna be too late, and then you're not gonna have it, and then it's gonna be like dang one hundred flowers dot com. All right, so we're back, and I want to talk about You said you're sang harmonies on Miranda's early stuff. Yes, you also did you sing with Amy Grant because you mentioned her earlier? Did you

sing with her? You know what? I never sing on her records, but um, I sang at the She used to do the thing back in the nineties called the Loft, and she had this group of kids who come together and they would do like praise and worship songs, but they also do like these fun songs that were kind of silly. But they had like like plays, and they had all these like musical guests that would come on. And so they did a record and I sang on that record. Um, I mean with a big choir. But

I've sang with Amy several times. Amy has been so awesome to me. She the first song I ever wrote. This is a funny story. The first song I ever wrote was called actually wouldn't say Ever? The first good song I ever wrote decent, and I don't even know if it's good anymore, but it's called the Naive One. And she heard it my mom played at four, and she was like, hey, you want to come play a

Bluebird around with me? And and I'm nineteen, I'm like, oh, yeah, sure, I'd love to go, you know, like, I'm like, Amy should be so honored to have me. But anyway, so we got to this Bluebird around and it's Randy Scruggs,

John Hyatt and this brand new artist, Patty Griffin. And I'm nineteen at the time, and I've never heard Patty sing, and they let me go first, so I sing my song and then everybody collapse, and then then they go around Amy, Randy John hyd who I was a huge fan, and then Patty is sitting right next to me and she sings poor Man's House and I just absolutely flipped out. I just was like, oh my god, like I felt

kind of stupid. I didn't know, but she'd just put out Living with Ghosts that record, and but that was my first bluebird experience. So when you say that, a couple of things come to mind. And because I've been able to be lucky enough to play there too. It's like, you don't want to follow somebody that's really good. Oh no, it doesn't know how good you are if you go behind somebody that's super good. I felt dumb because I'm not good. I'm just kind of funny. Well, I mean,

you've fallen. Patty's amazing Patty was did it? Did? Did you go oh crap? Or were you just such a fan that it didn't bother you? Well, you know what, They let me go first, so I didn't know how great everybody was, but it came back around to you right now. They let me do one song. Oh okay, because yeah, I was a special guest. Okay, that's awesome.

Then you just got to enjoy it. I got to enjoy it because you didn't have to go again after, because I'd have been like, well, well, But in a similar story Amy years later, hey do you want to play a blue around? You gotta be careful when she asked you, because you don't know who's going to show up. And I'm like, sure, So it's her infants, Allison and Dan and Mindy Smith, and so I had to go after Allison. So this time, that's funny. I just pissed. But but it makes you better. What do you say

it made you better? It did? It did? And you know what, I'm like in my head, I'm like, which one of us doesn't belong here or whatever? But do you know what? I enjoyed it and it was fun. I just did me, you know, just be you. But I will say, um oh, I had another point dog on out I was gonna make I can't remember, but anyways, it was Amy's given me a lot of first moments,

and I'm so grateful to her for that. So Amy, Miranda, I mean, it sounds like the common theme here are strong women, Like, oh yeah, that's what that's really And that's why I wanted to go back to that for a second, because it just seems like that that your theme in your life and your music is strong women. Yeah it is. I'm I'm a very I'm a nice person,

but I have always um. Someone asked me recently, if you could compare yourself to a fictional character, who would it be, And even though in theories she's not a fictional character, but I'm literally the unsingable Molly Brown. Like I just I might get beaten down, but I get right back up. So but I just, you know what, I also feel like I love music so much and I don't care. You got to a point with me where I was like, I don't care if I'm singing at a coffee shop and no one's listening. I don't

care if I'm in a church. I just want to do music, you know. And and I'm just lucky that I get to do it now this way. But I've had all these you know, and I've had some other friends who have had their careers have just already peaked and it's over, you know what I mean? All those years you have to learn how to be so gracious and happy for other people. Why you're just busting your ass at a nine to five job, wondering what's wrong

with your music? You know what I mean? But it's so um these times, these full circle moments make it all worth it, you know. So you right, white liar, You have these eight songs with Miranda, who's at the time in Texas, and it's it's coming up and your guys writing together that gets put on a record. Was that your that's your first number one? Was that your first big cut? Yeah? Well, yes, she was my first

huge cut. Yes, that was I knew I was gonna have four songs on her record, UM, and I knew like one of them might have potential, obviously to be a single. I actually kind of wanted Only Prettier to be the single. But I was so happy when Whitelier came out and it sounded so good on the radio because it sounded so different. It started with the chorus, you know, and at the time there wasn't a lot of songs like that. UM has kind of the bluegrass drive and feel I want to play this. This is

only Prettier. That's awesome. That's awesome. So I'll ask you this, after this album comes out and now you're Natalie Hippy with the number one and it cuts, do more people want to write with you? Are you cooler now a little more in vogue? Oh? Sure, everybody is. You know, if you're an artist and you you start hitting and on all cylinders, all of a sudden, everybody wants to write with you, and it's the same way for writers. UM. But I also was you know, it's a strange thing

that happened. I know this sounds like, oh, bust out the violence. But um, after White Liar went number one. I actually I've known Tom Douglas for years. I used to sing as demos like Forever ago um and he I was writing with him the day after, and for some reason, I was like, I said, Tom, I don't know what it is. I feel kind of sad. I don't understand why do I Why am not? I'm like, I had my first number one, hopefully I'll have another one. And he was like, well, that's just it. It's because

you think you can't do it again, you know. And it took all this time and all this energy and effort and prayers and everything else. And he's like, and that's that's kind of the downside too, to hitting that those moments, it's like you really have to teach yourself how to enjoy them, because it's easy to go, well, then what next? What mountain do I climb next? But I just yeah, I kept writing and writing and writing,

and honestly I didn't really have baggage. Claim came out and then um um, I didn't really have anything going on for a while until I got a new publishing deal another one, and um, Laura Ripe said, hey, have you ever write with a little big town? And I was like no, And I always have wanted to because

I've known them for years. They used to sing them as a Nashville two and I'd see them passing in another studio, and so I started writing with them, and immediately I just had a major connection with all four of them. They're they're creepy and they love you, by the way, and I say it so much like I have a wall, and it gets brought up eventually, but it's the people that like I have a personal like connection with, and I keep I keep six pictures on

the wall. It's over there to your left and there it's a little big down and Maren and Urban past Leaves one of my best friends so much. But these are all great humans, Jansen and Kelsey and so like. Those are the those are the like my people in little big town. They're just so I was by the way I was talking, I ran into them. Um kimberly, she said, because I haven't. My thing is I won't listen to new music until it comes out because I want to experience it, like the people to listen to

my show, because I want to talk. I can't be above my listeners, and I don't feel like I am so I can't be cool because I'm not cool. I get what you're saying. So everyone's always like listening to new music, and I'm like, you know what, as much as I would love to like, I am my listeners and I have and I have to be. So I'm gonna wait till the day it comes out. I'm gonna be excited about it. And Kimberly was like, and I hope this is right, because I'm just going from memory.

She goes, hey, I wrote a song with Natalie about a Bible. Did you guys write a song together on the other new record? No, you know what, I know what song that is? What's on? Did you write together? She said, you guys wrote we wrote? I wrote a song. I wrote a few songs with them on their new record though, on their new record, but I only on the two that made it was one that I wrote with Lori and Barry. No, she wrote Hillary Hillary. I'm pretty sure it's either Hillary Lori? Because what did you

write on the new record? Because she brought you up specifically? Did she? I wrote free on the new record. I haven't heard them because I won't listen. Because she was like, hey, listen, I haven't heard of me there. They're being so kind of secretive. You haven't heard the song. They're being so stingy, and I'm gonna go roll their house with toilet paper

or something, but um no, they haven't played for me yet. No, And actually Randon didn't either, and I was like, I want to hear the record, but shouldn't that be a rule, like if you write the song, it's when it's produced, Like I think it should be a rule. You don't have to let me hear it, so the phone, have you over and let me hear it? No, And I wrote well with the guys called Roland, that's what it is. It's it's the two the two guys that you wrote it, right,

Philip and Jimmy. That's what it was. They were. That's what it was now, and I love it. I love it so much. It's it's they brought you up to me because I was like, hey, now. They were like, we love Natalie, and I was like, I haven't met her, but she's coming to the house and I knew that. So you have When people say Natalie you Natalie Hay, they're like, she's in these camps. You know, you're known as in the Miranda Camp and you're known as a

Little Big Town Camp. And so we found out how you're in the Miranda camp from lack of that's what they say, like better no, it is that how did you like what was the first song for a Little Big Town that you wrote that kind of popped out? And how did you end up with this relationship with them? Well? Um, first of all, they're so kind that when you meet them,

you feel like you know them already. And you know what, I so relate to them because I felt like to me, they were always underdogs and grinders for sure, grinders and you know what, I so was the same way in my own way, you know, like just always worked hard and almost there and not quite almost there, but I but should be there, you know what I mean? They were so amazing even back then. But um, the first song we ever wrote was called night Owl, and I I was like, I wanted to do like an Everly

Brothers type of deal with them. And you know what, here's one thing you need to know about me. I love my favorite songs and records are last songs and on Revolution I have Miranda. Miranda's last song is Virginia Blue Bell and then on this one on Tornado, it was night Owl and it's sort of like, I just love album closers. They're just the most poignant songs to me. And so I wanted to write this Everly Brothers type call an answer song for the record, and literally that

was the first song we wrote together. And then then they started cutting my songs, which I was like, wow, I had no idea how many of they had cut on the Tornado record. And I was just so excited because literally the Tornado record, you actually wrote torn it. I mean, you wrote the song which is the records named after. It's crazy. It's crazy if you don't get paid extra for them. Did you write this or Pontoon with them first? Um, I didn't write either one of

them with them for them, for them. I wrote this for them first. Yeah, I meant for them, said this one first, and then Pontoon second. Yeah, well you know what, I wrote Pontoon and Luke and Berry and we almost wrote it like as a joke. Yes, like literally were like, I mean the first of all we originally I was backed this bit up into the water. I mean, that's how funny we were trying to like, and they just made it cool. So when you write this and it's a light song and like you just said, you kind

of wrote it. The idea came as a joke. It was such a smash dude. I mean it blows my mind, Like, I love, I love this song, I love how they did it. But it just makes me laugh that my piece of crap, piece of ship work tape can turn into something like that. I mean, it blows my mind. Honestly. When you when the when it was said motor boating, did you guys laugh because that's Look, here's the story. So we're like on avant and making ways and catching right.

Literally we write every line right up until that moment. We're like, how do you in the open it? And then if I was like motor boating, like what are you gonna say? There? That's what you're saying, you say motor boating. But it was like, oh do we say it? Sure we because there is this generation of before it's usually before like fifteen years old and then over fifty that does not know what the inner meetings of motor

boating is. So it was sort of like we got away with it concerning that crap, and some people were like, you knew what that was and like, well, yeah, it's in the freaking movie. And I'm like, but it was just gonna say they're your boat A bit. Sorry I say that, this is said whatever you want. So okay, you have you write these little big town has two monsters with them. I mean those really put them on the map as like big acts. Blows my mind. I mean honestly, yeah, but that put them on a big

catapulted them like in a crazy way. So here's a funny story. Like we bought a pontoon, my husband and I do, because we're like, if we're going to write a song, we need to buy a pontoon. And literally I hear in other people's boats on the lake. I mean it's just it was crazy. And I'll tell you what you could write a song about, like the most poignant so long about your mother who did this, or

you know, saving souls and babies and all stuff. But when we played pontoon, people just go batchick crazy over it because it's a fun song. It's a fun song. They love it. Do you have to you have to remind yourself that sometimes it's okay just not to be so serious. Yes, I mean Honestly, I think this best advice is, I mean, you know, don't take yourself too seriously, don't get piste off of people don't like your music.

Like for example, when we went to go buy this pontoon, um my daughter, we had her on the boat and we took a test drive with this guy and he had to sell the boat because his wife is having a baby. And he was so nice. We really enjoyed talking to him. And as we get to the dock, um my child's kind of getting fussy, and we've started to get off the boat and she goes motor boat and and the guy goes, oh my god, that song is so awful, having no clue that I had readen it,

and my husband was like. My husband was looking at me like, oh my god, what's she going to say? And I just kind of put my head down. I was like, that song is a piece of shit, and I literally just walked away. It was the funniest moment, and I just got the biggest kick out of it. But I'm just I'm so grateful for my number one piece of shit, you know, But in an awesome way. Isn't it funny that your kid is singing it like she's heard it, he knows it, but it's coming out

of a kid. I mean, it's that big of a song that's all ways wrapped back around. I wrote what we wrote one of those songs, you know. I was like, that's just crazy to me. So it's funny you have Do you have that one? Oh we've already sold it, yes, And it is the truth. The day you buy the boat and the day you sell her the best days of your life. So I got into the whole boat never never, never, never again. No thanks, tell me about

this one here. I don't know, you know what. That one is so funny because that was the first time I wrote with Shane and Luke together, and we just were It was so random. Literally we didn't have a hook at all. We just started from the very you know, all the parties in the streets are talking or whatever.

I can't even think of my own lyrics, but my point is we started on the verse and literally just kind of wrote it line by line, and then whenever, um, they cut it, I was just like, I don't know, anytime someone cut something in mine, it's outside of my quote unquote camp, I'm always like, oh, thank you, Jesus, you know what I mean. But Um, Lady a Bellum that was for me. That was a fluke, Like I was like, I can't believe that just happened. But they

did it great. I mean, it did really well on the charts and yeah, really well, it crushed I mean, and they put out in this hilarious video here for it, and I mean I was so grateful at the time. So there's no big story behind it. Only big story is the first time that um Shane and Luke and I had ever written together, which I have a really good luck with firsts Um. Even going back to Tornado, Um, I wrote that with this girl, Delta Maide and she's

from Liverpool and it was two thousand and eleven. It was the last right of the year from both me and her, and she literally it was there was tornado sirens going off outside and she's like, do you guys have a lot of tornadoes here? And I'm like, yes, we do. And she's like, I've always wanted to write a song called Tornado, and I'm like, I was like, that's a badass idea. I think that's a great idea. So we wrote it and then literally Um Karen's like,

let's put it on hold. We're gonna call our record Tornado. Oh, by the way, it's a single. Oh, it's you know, ten five. And then it goes number one. And then literally the next time I saw Delta was at our number one party. So I've only seen her two times in my life, and I just thought that was so. But I have really good luck with riding with people on the first drive. Is there ever an ego thing amongst writers where someone goes, hey, I have an idea, but you want to have the idea? Oh? Sure. I

mean we're all secretly jealous of one another. I mean, especially when you hear a great song that one of your friends where you're like, damn it. I'm like, I'll never forget. And Mary play me my church. She uh, she sent it to me in attacks and when she was out there right with Buzzby and we had just written with Buzzy, and I was like, dog got it, and I literally I loved it so much. I was like, that's that's amazing. I'm I'm totally pissed you wrote that

without me, but I'm totally excited for you. You talked about me, and I'll let me talking about Sheared's baris for a second. Alright, so again, Valentine's Day's coming up if you're hearing this, if you know, pretty recent after we're doing this, But Valentine's it's coming up, and you can send even if it's not Valentine's Day. Maybe you're hearing this month from now. But if Valentine's Day, you want to send him something awesome, let me talk about

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hand corner clicking bones. Valanent is coming up right now. But if it's not Valentine's Day two, just check out the side of berries dot com. Alright, we're back here, and we were talking about Marion Moore a second ago, and I love the record. I'm a Marin fan. I was getting in trouble for stealing YouTube clips and playing Mare on the radio before the song is breaking out here because I just I just love that you love

her music. I do. I didn't even know her, I don't even know where I loved her music, and but she came up and the record is so good. And this is one of my favorite songs on the record. I'm not here and the STU and you wrote this, I wrote with her and Ryan. This is a jam. I love this song because but I wish, but I wish jamn right there. I love that song. I mean, and it's not a single yet, who knows if it will be. It don't matter, that's just it's an amazing

I don't care if it's it's an amazing song. I'm super And it turned out the feel of it is so nice. That backbeat playing, you know, and the piano. Everything is perfect. The way you feeling about me. I should let you singing, not me, because I love sing on it make a hard say, so are you singing? Believe me? Her and writer so gonna hate me if you have to. I hate myself too because as much as so, I'm not the hero and stuff. Oh my god,

thank you. I just love that song because I can trut up and I don't want, but I wish, but I wish. You know, both her and Ryan I come separately and and done this and they're just both creative beings. They are, they totally are, and they they create such great music together too. And that wasn't the first time I wrote the two of them. But um, I wrote a song. Uh, I wrote that with Buzzby. Yeah, I love the song. So you're in the Marin camp. I mean, I will say Maren is probably um and forth no

me too. It's such a phenomenal record. Maren is, like I called, I don't know she's ever told the story, but um my friend Daniel Tashon was the one who turned me onto her. And Daniel is an amazing writer here and he's from Nashville. Two He's like, you need to write with this girl Mary where she's amazing and I was and he sent me a song and I flipped, you should hear the songs that she hasn't cut. I mean, I'm if I do another record, I'm gonna put on some of them on my record. Like, she don't have

no choice, but my my, I called her. I went to Kroeger late one night because I was leaving the next day, and I was like, I called her a ten thirty. I was like, you don't know me, but my name is Natalie himmy. I was like, I love your writing and your voice, and I was like, I just want to I would love to get together, right and we we have a true friendship, she and I do. We just it's a very like honestly, Marion doesn't need me, you know what I mean, I don't. None of these

people need me. And that's what I really love about working with these people's We don't really need each other, but we love working together and that's what makes it fun. And that's how I feel about her. She has a camp of a great group of people she writes with, but um, she can write her ass off. She's a great writer. So the first song, you know what turned me onto her. It was a song and she hadn't cut I think it's called hate. Oh god, that's what.

That's the first song I ever heard. That's the first thing I played ever of hers. And I was like this, this is like different level type stuff. And it was it on the record and it sits on YouTube. You can still find it, and it's I mean it is. I was like, holy crap, oh my god. Well we wrote a song. That song like literally made me cry. Um but one of my favorite songs. I'm literally going to put it on my next record. It's called that

I wrote with her. It's called No Way Out. And I wrote it with her and Ian fit Chick, and it's like it's like, who told ude there was no way out? Every door was open, everyone came down? Who told you there was no way out? It's such a beautiful song, and she has she has the ability to write this super sassy songs, but she's so heartfelt. You know. I love that girl. I'm so glad you love her too. You know, there are some people that just root for too. You just love their music, but you also root for

them because of how they did things. Yeah told and there's and and she was here three weeks or so ago, and you know she came because Ryan, Ryan, I did this month ago. And then I was like, I want to come to your house and do this. And I was like, let's find a time because I'm always on the road. She's always on the road. And she came up and we sat down and talked and I told her,

I said, you know, I'm a fan. But when you got up and you you spoke at the CMAS when she won the Best New Artists, We talked about the speech. She was like, I don't have anything ready. They started rushing me. I said, you said to me, what was one of the more poignant things? And something that I remember the triggers constantly is that one year ago you were sitting at a freaking bar across the street watching

on TV. That's how it is. And if that's not if you don't get inspired by that, I don't know. I don't know what can inspire you. I don't either. I was literally drinking and tweeting all night and I'm just like Mary Moore, I was like, and I literally called her and I'd say, I was like, I'm so sorry. How about this song right here, because I love this one here. I was like, yeah, well, you know what Keith is. I mean, Keith is so he's he's so talented,

a great player. And actually this was our second right we had written on and because meet him and Michael Alsando and actually that day we wrote this song, it was a really tough day and and it was just sort of like, you know what Keith is. He doesn't need me either. But basically, I would say, Keith and I are like an orange in a mushroom. We don't

We're not in the same food group necessarily. But you know what, I learned a lot from him, Like when he started playing this guitar riff, I was like, I started singing a totally different Melanie and he said to me, goes, okay, that's really badass, he said, but it sounds more badass when you sing it. If I sing it, it it sounds it does not sound the same. And I was like, touche, that totally makes sense to me. You know, but Keith

is very Um, he's a passionate person. He's a passionate writer, and I had a blast riding with him on that day. But it was also really tough day, um, only because I was just trying to figure out which direction he wanted to go. You know, sometimes you walk in with ideas for people and it's just you have to feel out the room. And I was trying to get his vibe on it. But you know what, I'm so grateful that he cut that song and I love how it turned out in the guitar sol is amazing on it.

So I want to get to your album a second. I want a couple more go, a couple more songs deep though on stuff to You Britain. Like my favorite artists, frankly are strong women artists period like current, so that they are, and I love Marin. Like my favorite contemporary artist right now is Casey Musgrave's period. She's she's my favorite, Like she's my favorite, my favorite, she's everybody's favorite. She's awesome. And so I don't want to be a boy good appreciate.

So tell me about this song. Well, you know I have been I mean before, I mean i've from here. I mean I've been saying for years, I'm like, screw the boys club, like, and I do mean the good old boys club. You know here there was this I don't know. I'm not trying to rip on the guys because there's you can't feel free. I do all the time.

I think it's like, you know what, there's a lot of talented guys, but I'm just kind of tired of the same ship that sounds the same coming out all the time, same dudes who sound right and same crap. And you know what I'm talking about. Everybody's been preaching it for a while. But it's like when this girl right here, there's five girls right now I think on Top fifty radio and country music, and I'm just like,

damn it, come on. There's a shift happening though. There is a shift, and I think it's and I'm so grateful old that we have voices. And I'm not saying put us on the radio because we have boobs. I'm saying, put us there's some great music coming from female artists that have not been given a chance. That's what it is. So for me, and this has been something that over the past, you know, since my little tenure started in Nashville is that every year, I would just take a

week and just highlight females. I was raised by all women, like like I was raised by all women, mom, grandma, sisters. So for me, it's a idea. I love. That's how my husband is. I mean, he's been around girls all his life, and I mean there's and there's some strong women here. There's some amazing singers here. But here's where the blame goes, because Rolling Stone want company, like, hey

tell us why there are no women? And my thing it's not a First of all, I'm different because I'm an idiot and I get to put whatever I want now at this point. I didn't always. I got a lot of trouble when I first started. I love that because I get to write whatever I want at this point. Now we kind of get to choose our own destination. We get in the first I failed, miserable. I'm writing my second book is called Winning by Losing, Like you have to lose so many times to learn to win.

So with that I would bring every year. I just I would find all these girls that I felt like, we're not being featured in showcase, and they would say, why are ready ready to play women. And I was like, well, here's the thing. When there's a sound that's created, everybody wants to copy it because it's all not money. Everything's revenue. Everything is the whole world's wrapped around revenue, whatever industry

you're in. And because this sound comes out that we'll just call it what everybody called it was bro country, which I think is unfairly called that, but okay, fine, we'll use that term very male, very male, very male, and very fun male like party mail. Yes, but the labels weren't developing females at all. They were developing them to even give out as an option because they saw

what was selling. So their minor leagues weren't strong when it came to Okay, so this runs out right right like when it runs out like what do we do? And so my thing has been we don't need a revolution of anything because the revolution will then fall away. The best to win, I agree with, and I think

is a great example of that. And Brothers Osborne, I mean, that's what I really just want to see as great music when and I just my thing is like, there's some really great female artists and Casey being one of them that I feel like you've got to give him more of a chance to be on radio. I mean, I think people would I don't know. I I think people would love to hear a little bit more diversity in country music if they would just offer it a

little bit more. And you know what, And again I don't speak for me, I'm speaking for radio and as because I feel like a lot of these guys get a bad rap in radio because they only play what's offered to them from the record label. That's that's true. I mean like, well, right in radio, well the record labels of blaming radio's don't pick singles that we were offered. This is the single, will it work? And then we're like, oh,

let's see. So um with that being said, I do want to talk about your record because I mean I told I tweeted you. I was like, I'll listening to this thing, dude, thank you so much for tweeting me. I've never been tweeted and I felt I was like nerd boy, because dude, are you kidding? So first of all, talking about the title of the record and what it means, Well, Plexico is a little town in southeast Missouri. It's called Plexico, and um, I Basically, here's the long short of it.

I got this hair brain idea before White Liar, before I had any number one song, to do a documentary. And my grandparents small hometown in southeast Missouri, and basically they have this festival every year called Homecoming, and anywhere from eight ten people come out to this tiny town of like literally it's like people now that live in this town for from Tuesday to Saturday, and they have

carnival rides, square dancing, got burgers. It's like literally Mayberry with a little carnival and it's such a bygone era. And I noticed one year the attendance was really down, and I was like, I wish we could do a documentary and based it on you know, how do you keep Homecoming live? How do you keep your town alive? How do you keep it tradition alive? And so I got together. I met Ryan Silver and Scott um Murphy and we went and filmed in Puxico for two weeks.

Was hot, aest week ever on record, and it was exhausting. And we did this documentary but it turned into this thing more of a story about my grandfather and I and our relationship and like why why I love Plexico so much is really because of him, and it's like, and that's part of what I have on the front of the record. It's like, in the beginning, I thought this was about a town, but really it's about a man, a man who loved me so much I had to tell the world, you know, that's sort of deal. And

that's kind of what it came into. And so what happened though, was I had the soundtrack that I written for it with some great buddies of mine, Trent Davis being one of them, Lindsay Chapman, Gin Shot Keilly, archer Um, Jonathan Cassandra Lawson, a lot all these people contributed contribute to this, and so I Ryan and Maren actually we're going to Michigan and they were like, can we have

the soundtrack to Busco? We really love the music and they were listening to it on the way up there and they kept texting me, you gotta put this out. This is so well. I was gonna put it out more as a soundtrack and just more, I was like, but then I'm like, no, this is my first record. It really is. This is like the deepest part of who I am as a person. This is like part of my story, my history, and I love my husband produced it. He played most of the instruments on there.

But we got like some great guys like Fred answering him, Greg Lee's Um play on it, and Jonathan actually played on Cairo. But I it became this beautiful. I just loved how the project turned out. So it sounded so beautiful. It's just sounded like my soul bled, you know. And I love going joy, still love to keep driving past the goat k. She used to be a beauty back in eighteen have to following the funds. Now she's went about the river and she's still well that she is gone.

Two questions, yes, question one, can you appreciate just how good that is? I love it? Okay good? I hope so no I do. And you know what, that was always the pressure of putting out a first record. It's like you wait all this time. It's like I I listened to that over and over and over and over and over again because it was just it made me cry the first time I heard it. Just sonically, sonically

the whole thing, it's gorgeous. Husband did such a and I'm not like I mean, don't get me wrong, we fight in the studio too, but I so appreciate him musically, I think he is he has great taste, and he's worked with some brilliant engineers, producers, artists all all these years. It's like he's been conditioned for these different these types

of moments as well. But literally, that sonically just is music to my It's so warm sounding, and honestly, that is how I feel when I drive through Cairo, Illinois. Cairo is so such an archaic town and it's like literally, uh, the bones of something that used to be beautiful and there are still people that. By the way, it's also pronounced Cairo, Illinois, which I do know this, but I was like, to the world, someone's gonna look at this and say, oh, Cairo, Illinois. I mean, right now, it's Cairo.

What's funny. In the South and in the Midwest, there's all these different towns. There's like a rab which was Arab, there's Advanced Missouri. It's advanced, you know. So I've gotten a couple of hate males. It's like, you do know it's pronounced Caro right or or Cairo, and I'm like, yes, I do, but um, but anyways, the town is a relic of what it used to probably look like. But to me, it's a symbol of me going home to a place I love, or a symbol of my heartbreak

having to leave a place I love. And that's kind of what Jonathan, he's from Missouri too, and he was kind of saying the same thing. But when you drive through, it's a very unique. It's an eerie kind of place in this beautiful way. Do you when you sing? And and your reputation too, because I have a lot of songwriter friends, and your reputation is you don't want to sing a song that you sing in a demo, it's tough to follow you. People always say that they really

people don't want to follow Laurie mckennic. That they're like if you get a Lorry Hillary, yes, or you. I mean those are the ones like, oh, you can't sing like Nally Like, that's that's what people say. Like when you hear you sing, are you like? Man? I like, I'm an elite vocalist. I don't think I'm elite. I mean, I have my way of doing things, but I don't I'm telling you right now, you're elite. Hey, that's my

rapper name I'll take it not to lem. Sorry, I love I picked a few of my favorites, dude, pick away. It's still I never know how would be just thinking, were you nervous before I came out? Oh, I'm so nervous you were? Oh yeah, because because why though, Like what was the pressure for you in your head? You know, I don't know. I've had so many people like through later on and through the years, would be like, when

are you going to put a record out? And I'm like, I ain't put it on a record, um, just because during the time when I was going to put out a record, you had to have a record deal. And it just to me, it's like I've watched other people put out the records. It's really nerve wracking. And I really I was nervous because I wanted my peers to like it. That's really what it is. I mean you could sit here and say I don't care if nobody likes it, and I do feel that way a little bit.

I mean, I like what I like and I don't let anybody else get in the way of that. But but I also want to be I want people other people to like it. Not really for a selfish reason. But just you know, I loved the fact that Marion and Ryan called me on the way on a road trip and they wanted to listen to this because that is what that's how I want people to listen to

this record. I wanted them to go back home, take a road trip somewhere, put it, put it in the car, roll the windows down, you know, and just kind of escape and be happy and have that feeling of nostalgia a little bit. You know, let me give him one more tell me about this song here. I mean, well, I appreciate that, you know what um Gin shot. That was her idea, and it was so crazy. We I

hadn't I actually didn't write it for the documentary. We we wrote it because she had lost her dad and she had gone back home, and you know, just anytime you lose someone that you love, it's almost like they're still around, even when you go back home to visit. And that's kind of what this was about. But it turned into so much more. Um When my record came out, it was Friday January and that was the anniversary, which was coincidence of when Jin's father had passed away, and

then also I lost an aunt that day. And I don't know Dorf, you know Andrew Door fast Away, and it just this song hits home in so many ways, you know. Um, even when I go home to Puxico, it's like I still feel like my grandmother's there. You know. It's like we all had to leave our fingerprints behind. Show I gets you long around, something to talk about stops. Oh this I can so good. Thank you so much? Should Beau, that's so good. It means a lot that

you like it. Honestly, it's not listening to Carolin like I love it. I care. I'm like, I like what you like. You like all my friends. We like the same thing. Natalie him, Wow, dude, we're like best friends already. I just look at this body of work. And even now, it's like it's I understand why I'm intimidated to talk to you. Oh shut, it's the way you You're just on a different level. I don't. I'm actually not. I'm just you know, I love music just like everybody else.

And I honestly I always want to throw a few curveballs here and there, and but I just I'm so glad I get to do it because I didn't get to do it for a long time. You know, I didn't know if I was gonna be able to ever. I never thought of be able to have a career like this, you know. I always hoped for it, but um man, it's been a ride. If it all ends tomorrow, I will I will die grateful, you know. And I just hope nobody plays really bad songs in my fear

now and you're actually leaving here to go? Right? Can I say this to r with Lucy? And anytime Lucy gets brought up on this, we always call her. And I was like, what and so we have to call Lucy for myself and most and last time she didn't answer, but she'd call me right back, because she'll answer. I think I told her I was coming over here. Okay, then she'll know. She's like, should say nice thing? Or did you just watch out? She probably hates me, but she's like my best buddy. I love her so much.

Good evening, we're talking about you again on I know, so so Natalie and I are here talking, So what what would you say about now? That's not listening. She's in the isolation booth. So the isolation booth, I mind just conjuring up all sorts of images. Um, what would I say about Natalie? How can anyone resist that? Husky boys? It's just so appealing. I could listen to it all

day and all night, speaking or singing. Um, she's the coolest person she's I met her a long time ago, so she's been very big part of my Nashville story and we've been a lot of changes in my life. She was there for as well. And she's the sweetest, sweetest person, very humble and sweet, but talented. She's like a bonny rate to me. So you do realize every time that we bring a friend up here, we're gonna call you on the phone and ask you your thoughts.

These I'm looking at. Is it a monthly podcast or a weekly? It's weekly and sometimes a couple of weeks. Yeah, I seem to have missed a couple of weeks. That's okay. That's the good thing about a podcast. You can catch up. All right, Yes, we're that's the big finale. That's gonna be the final episode and we finally have you on after all the cell phone calls. Okay, well you guys have fun, all right, Bye Lucy, bye bye. So let

me just tell you a little thing about Lucy. Lucy and I are the same age, but we met and we had to we had to stay. We We've got on all these b and my trips together and we always stay in the same room. And she is so damn gorgeous. And when she wakes up in the morning, she has wild, crazy, beautiful Victoria's secret hair, and like, has this key little outfit on, and I am literally

in a sweatshirt and sweatpants. I might as well have a retainer on and face cream and hair in a bun, and like seriously like and we both we both sound like men in the morning, like like, do you want to get some coffee? Yes, Natalie, I love some coffee. Yeah. I mean literally, It's like it's so funny. She to me. We were at dinner a month or so. I go and I just never talked to her about her past life, which is the music she made in the UK. And I was like, Lucy, we sent all the time together,

what tell me about Like what? She goes, I sold a million records in the UK and I was like what. She was like, she's a million, And I'm like, what was your biggest song? She's like, oh, I did a metallic a cover of nothing else matters with the with the bat and I literally they were murdered her over the internet, like some of the Metallica fans. Was blown away and I came home and it was way before

the rasp that she has now. But yeah, it's really awesome. Anyway, Lucy gets brought up in every one of these because everybody loves Lucy. If you don't love Lucy, I don't love you. That's what we should make these t shirts of. Let me end with this. It's a little so. I have a girlfriend that's an artist. You have a husband that's in the industry. How do you guys, Because it's a it's a cool thing because you can bond and relate, but it's also a lot. Oh yeah, I know. It's

always home and um, you know it's hard. I mean sometimes it's hard, you know. I since my family is in the music business, I kind of learned how to navigate between those two. And I do. I work with men all the time, and but I literally have thousands of brothers in the world, is what I always say. But you know what I think the thing is, you just have to always remain respectful of each other and your talents. And you know what. I also there's times where I have had nothing going on and he just

kept it going, kept me inspired, kept me writing. And there's times where he's had nothing going and I'm like, I kept him going, kept inspired. And I always tell him, like, you know what, one thing that we're really good at is we pull inward, you know when we when we when he I make music together, good things happen. And I'm so grateful for that, you know, because it sure

beats the alternative. What about because this has become oddly very like a lot of artists listened to this because I get to get people like you and talk a long time and there's not a lot of that. I get to bring in songwriters and really go deep into ideas and thoughts and um so artists will come and even young artists and say, hey, you know, how do I do this? How do I do? What do you tell artists that are are starting now? Like what's the key to it all? I think I think the hey

do it all? Is authenticity? And like you know what do you? I don't know? You have. It has to happen at the right time or it will not work and you'll have a short career and it'll be over. I mean, if you start too soon and you don't know who you are and you have labels telling you who you are, it just it will not work out. You. You really have to be give yourself time to develop who you are as an artist, because literally that music

will be out forever. You know. I am so glad by the way it did not work out for me back then, because I might have turned into When you signed at a label, you become a product, you know, and if you can have your product ironed out before you get to a label, man, what a much better road to travel. I mean, I feel like that's why Maren is successful, why Casey got her deal, like a lot of these artists did that, you know, even Lucy.

But if you start off and you're like, make me somebody in your just a great singer, well I don't. It's not gonna work. You have to be true to who you are. If you're going through a really shitty time, write some songs about it because people will believe you. I think people want to believe artists now again. You know, all the authenticity has been gone for so long, and

now it's so refreshing. It's craved it is. That's why Adela is so huge, because she breaks through this wall of sounds on radio and when her song when Hello you Know, comes on, You're like you listen because it's like you feel something. I think people want to feel music again and not I mean, look, I love dance music, I love I love good party songs. But I'm just saying we need a nice mixture of everything, and it all needs to be authentic, no matter what it is.

You know, one of the artists, and you mentioned Shane McNally earlier, we did say his last name is Shane um. And I like Shane a lot because first of all, it's a great writer. He is one of the best writers in nash He really, he's a phenomenal writer. He obviously he has you know, Sam is heavy Shane. You know, they work together at time. And Walker Hayes. I have Walker Eyes opening for me now on my stand up

comedy tour and Walkers He's awesome. He's like my favorite walking on my favorite right And that's why I was like, dude, you have to come out and do shows me for like five months. Yeah, And so Shane signed Walker, So I have all these you know, ways around to Shane. But I talked about the authenticity of just even the words of for example, Sam, and people go, oh, say the haters will go, oh, no they do, but really

Sam is totally himself. He even the words he says sometimes don't fit, but it's so real it is that it fits because it's human words said well and he wrote them. I mean, he this is what, this is what he does. You know what I'm saying. Whether you like it or not, whether you like it or not. Even Florida Georgia Line, I mean, they have their own sound. That's there. You know, party boys sound kind of thing.

It's funny you bring that up. I was asked about that and I said, everybody blames them, and I was like, they're not to blame. They created a new sound like he did. Everybody copying them is what this culture became for a while and it started to break out of that. But the people that blame Florida Georgia Line, they're ridiculous that they they was so new that it was, and I mean the cruise thing was just so huge that it launched a format for like three and a half

years of NonStop that and did other things fault. It's not their fault that they were so different. But it's like you can look at any trend and like that in music. I mean even like I remember Vanilla Ice came out back in the day and it was just like, oh my god, he's amazing. But I mean then then that stuff went away. It was like I had the tape was back in the day we bought singles on tape. Of course I did too, and I had Ice Ice Baby, and you flipped it around. It was played that funky

music White Boy it was, I remember. And I also had the the EMC hammer of an l ice right down the middle and it was one on each side, and then I had the MC hammer. You can't touch this. Have you seen her on the back side? I don't know. I remember heavy seen her? Tell me have you seen her? Yeah? Like he's like totally talking to the background, and then a long comes Snoop Dogg is just wiped all that out.

There's always something that comes along and wipes well. It's like the hair bands into into grunt and it said they you know good and just like that, you know nerv It smells like the video of smells like Teach Forget the first I thought in the gymnais and then it changed everything, and then it did until the boy bands came in, and then it changed everything. And then trends always end up going and coming and then they come back again, and that's just the everything cycles it does.

And I actually really like this, this Chris Stapleton cycle. I hope it sticks around for a really long time. It's funny though. Go back to the birthday. I Ericauld call me one time. She goes, hey, I gotta spot you play blueber Round Chris, And I said, no, I'm not. No. She goes, what are you serious. I was like, no, I'm dead. No, there's no way I'm playing in around with Chris Stapleton. This is my and I will leave on this story. This is my favorite Chris tablet to

the story. Um so I heard Chris sing on YouTube. Um and and then and you've been writing and one of my favorite, one of my Like you know, I have like ten really good friends in town. Less than ten, but you know, two hands right, yeah, And one of them, like my close friends, is a writer named Lee Thomas Miller. Lee Miller, we don't call Thomas, okay, close? Like, yeah, I don't hang out. I hang out with Lee and so every other Wednesday, him and Chris are right together

for years, for years, they're just right, right right. And listened to Chris sing on YouTube and I was like, I gotta have this guy. He didn't sing out it is, so I called him and he was in the shower and he was like. I was like, hey, come on the studio, just play because I just think it's so amazing. And it was my early days here too, and I was causing trouble and people did it wasn't going It wasn't going good for me. It wasn't it wasn't going good for me at the time because I was just like,

screw all. I just want to do what I want to do. And it doesn't work. I'm fine with that. But so Chris comes up and he plays and he obviously crushes it. And I think he came up and he's saying a Josh Turner song that he had written. So he comes up and he sinks, and I'm just like, holy crapt. So I'm buying him back again. I'm buying back.

About the fourth time he comes up, someone very high at a radio station over stations called called my boss says, hey, I don't know who this Chris guy is, but you've got to stop having a mom because nobody knows who he is. And I go and I go to my boss and I'm like, but he's so good. I know he doesn't even have a record out right now, but he's so He's just so good, and that's what I

want on the air. I'm not kidding you. A week and a half later, he goes on the c m as and that's the when him at timber Lake saying again and I didn't have say anything, and you don't like to be like I told you i'd have to say anything. No, you don't have to say an nothing. And I was so happy for Chris. Yeah, and everybody is so happy for Chris because you talk about a grinder. Oh yeah, I know he's he's been doing in Morgan Morgan is I've wrote one of my favorite songs with Morgan.

I wrote a song called Casino. It was on the UM Nashville Show. But she, oh my god, is she a singer? And literally like I just had terrible things said to her when she was signed to Sony and you know they made her go to I don't even want to say it. They just they've just basically stripped her self confidence and you you want to talk about also one of the best singers in Nashville, Morgan Stapleton,

is a mother ever of a singer. But um so it was so nice to see the two of them standing up there together, and um but, I I feel like it's fun. I mean, it's fun to watch people jump on the bandwagon after the fact when you were like back in the day, going yeah, this person is amazing and you guys are all stupid and you have no clue, you know what I mean. It's like, oh, now, now now you're ready to accept. But whatever, at least they get it. But at least they get it. At

least they get That was mine too. I was like, I was just happy for him. I was losing my mind. I was so happy for him that I was like, I don't even care that people. I don't even you know, And I have a library of Chris playing live and nobody else does. I have a library in the studio of him coming up just playing songs that's nobody else has because I have him basically doing his whole record acoustic live, because he would just come and play, and so now I just needed to do the whole shows.

Don't worry to play them all the time. I really enjoyed this. Oh me too, buddy to a lot of fun for me. Oh listen, I'll yes. I thank you for supporting great artists too. I'm serious. I'm not kissing your ass and being serious like that's a really I can't say enough about that. I just want people to champion good music, you know. And I'm not saying like, just because you don't I don't like your music, it's

not good music. I'm just saying they're like people who genuinely, like genuinely are talented, and people all over the world would recognize it, you know what I mean. Put those people up in the spotlight. I love that, you know well, I've this has been fund a definite presence that I enjoy well. Likewise, I'm not a president anyway, I got nothing. We have all the same friends, so that makes us really close friends immediately. So Natalie, thank you so much

for having me downloaded, and I always have downloaded. Don't stream it because you stream it, she ain't gett paid. Thank you. This has been episode thirty four and probably might you have any questions you're sitting over there producing a idea. We asked our question, do you ever like get an idea in a dream for a song? Like you wake up and oh my god, Yes, that is so weird. You say that, I've done it several times,

like I'll and I'll try to sing. I get melodies of my dreams, so I'll sing into my phone at three in the morning. But it's like, dude, it's like two octaves lower than it should be. But all the time it's weird. It's divine. All right, Well, we'll see you next time. Thank you, guys. Blue Apron is awesome at my house. If you come, you'll often see a Blue Apron box just sitting up on the counter because Blue Apron one is affordable for less than ten dollars

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