#90 - Barry Dean - Wrote Pontoon + Day Drinking for Little Big Town

is really good. And Mikey and I were talking before you came in. I was like, he wrote that song. It's like, I mean, I have this and like to my playlist right now. Still, what's nice? Thank you? So who'd you write that one? With Trent Dabs and Ingrid Michaelson.

It was Memorial Day weekend and they called said, Ingrid's coming in the right next week, but she wants to come in Nashville, come in early, and she writes with Trent Dabs a lot and Katie Herzig and just lots of great people like that, and um, they said, would you write with her on Memorial Day weekend? And uh, everybody else was clear and out, and uh, I come from you know, a little town working. Yeah, I'm working person, so you know, it must be present to win. So

so I was like, yeah, let's do it. And so she was not feeling well and uh so she we started a ballad kind of thing and it wasn't really going anywhere, and so then I thought, well, let's switch it up. And and so Trent had been layering drums and logic and and they were flamming from like that, and she said, played the piano. They said, you play the piano. So I played the button button and then she went, but da da data, and so I played that and then you know, again she'd hold her stomach.

I think she was dealing with some esophagal things, you know. And I was like, hey, you know, there's no country emergency. We can write on Monday or Tuesday. No, we'll do it. And so then I would throw lines, and I thought she didn't like them because we didn't know each other, you know. And there's always a weirdness too when you don't know someone and you're being creative. It's a it's a super vulnerable place. It takes me a minute to get comfortable. Uh and and and so you know, we

don't know each other at all. She's you know, I'm probably the oldest person she's written with in a long time. And uh, she's holding her stomach. I'm wanting to take her to a clinic and trance just you know. He's a worker, you know, he's moving around and and he's

Mr Energy anyway. And so then, um, so I said, well, I had this one thing about how girls chase boys chase girls chase boys, and how it just goes around and around and around, and I thought she didn't like it, and so then I started I kept nervous, you know, so I keep throwing titles. Well there's this other thing about how all the broken hearts still work and I'm still beating and still doing. And then she literally goes, you mean like, oh the broken hearts in the world

still be That's not my good. That has to be And then like a sometimes sometimes girls chesse boys chesse girls. And I was like, yes, that is exactly what I mean, and thinkingly, who is this woman? And she does that. I can't do it, but that right, her voice, her voice is like a formula one car. She can go real high and then she can go low. She can do all these things. And so then there was a question of should we put words on it? And I was like, you know, I really I kind of like

it with no words. I know my job is to throw words at you. But on the yeah, there was a debate on whether or not to put words there instead of it suns at all. I can't listen, you know, it's always you can only imagine the actor in your favorite role being that actor. So so I can't imagine

what what would be there now. And well there was another argument, which was and this is what took the longest time on the song was I thought it was the chorus, and then there was a descript you know, there was a disagreement because there was a feeling, well, no, that's not the chorus, that's the verse, and so we wrote a whole another chorus that I don't remember at all. It was not the right thing. And so then I said, well,

can we go the other way? Can we pretend that's the chorus and it's the eighties when I was young, and we start with a chorus. It's like a Steven Tyler thing. I remember Steven Tyler come in and he Steven Tyler comes in and goes, hey, man, he was like, I'm gonna tell you. It was crazy because we were sitting there and we're in the studio and they were like sweet emotion. They're like, why don't we just start with the chorus and he was like sweet and he

goes People were like what are you doing? And I'm like trust me, And that was like, you know, sweet emotions, trick is there ain't no trick. Yeah. It was like we just went simple with its just simple. Yeah, just here it is. This is about you were waiting for. I'm gonna give it to you right up front, you know so. And again I tell about five minutes ago I wrote that song. And that's like, you know, I'll be honest with you. Like the music that I play on the radio, some of it are like some of

it don't. Some of it I'm indifferent about. Yeah, and it just comes with and if anyone says they like it all their line, I agree with that. But I'm gonna tell you I love this song. Thank you. Yeah, I was just talking. I kind of geeked out a little b I was like, man, I'm so grateful for it. And it was not Again, I had no idea. I shouldn't tell the story, but I will. Uh So we wrote a memorial day and so that fall right before CMA week, Jinn and I went to Asheville, North Carolina.

We've never been there as my wife, and so we were down there. Be super awkward if it wasn't my wife. And uh, we're down there and we'd had dinner and we may have been overserved just slightly. We're going to where they play pianos and you all sing along this weet Caroline, one of those things doing in Wanto Baria. And uh so Ingrid calls, which is not a thing that happens a lot. And she called and and again we didn't know each other. We one day, that's it.

And then I get this note and she's, uh, can we talk? And she said, you know, do you think it is it too? I mean, because she does a lot of heavy, beautiful balance that are really you know, she she's not afraid, and so she was like, is it too? She was saying fun, you know, meaning frivolous I think. But I was like, well, you're the only artist who would worry about being fun, I mean, and uh, and she kind of laughed and she goes, well, is

girls chase boys are okay? Title? And I always say that because I may have had some wine at dinner. I start texting her like, you know, like Dame's love guys, you know, chocos love Chicas. I just I mean, all evening as I wonder, she still speaks to me, and I'm texting her all these different ways. I was like, you know, I think you should play it for some fans and if they love of it, great, and if they don't, we'll write another one. That's what I said.

I had no idea that it could be on pop radio or be a thing at all, but it was really wonderful. It opened up a lot of fun doors for me. Yeah. Again, I just loved it. I mean, this is not my air this is my airplane. Why I love it. It's on my airplane list of songs I go to Slate. Yeah, that's it. A little voice, you know, it's like you know, uh, Chris Lindsay and Amy Mayo, you know that. And so one time years

ago this song has never been recorded. Thing. I don't remember what was called, but I was writing a song with Chris Lindsay and we were over at Amy Land and I can't remember the song, but there was this part where we're like singing this thing and I didn't know what the words were. And this was new to me to to just sing whatever I wanted without knowing

the words. I was really um. I wrote only by myself until I signed to a deal in Nashville, So I literally used to write at the top of my pad when I did co writes make a noise because I would sit there trying to think the right answer before I said it, and uh and and not being willing to dare to suck and just put it out there. And it's just hard to get used to that. Um and so um. Anyway, I was singing something and I went bye baby, bye bye baby. I'm letting you go,

and it makes no sense. I just sang it in a moment, and Amy was just they're bringing coffee or something, you know, stopping by to say hi, and she goes, sorry, let me make this go away right here. UML no, I wish it was. It's my brother. He's really smart, and we have this side project we're doing and not musical, it's a different deal and he uh, he loves project management software and so he'll update the tasks, you know, and the percentage that's completed and you know all that.

Unfortunately I don't know how to make it not show on my phone, and so it keeps. He's just bing bing bing bing bing. I'm like, so stop, it's Christmas. But but she said, Amy was it was like sometimes the music says it for us. And so that person who's afraid to face their life or make a change or tell somebody what's going on, and and that moment she goes, you should trust that moment. Well, I didn't

even live here yet. I was still coming. I just signed and was coming back and forth, and uh, but that showed up in that right that day when she went, oh, I thought that that is that thing? Is that almost like a silence is okay in conversation type thing like not not all silence is bad. It's funny too. You bring out the vulnerability thing, because I think it's a and not just in creative space. We working to creative space, but a lot of people working group space where uh

their problem solving. You're coming up with ideas, you're afraid to say something because you're around people that you don't know and you don't want to but The thing that I've learned about that is everybody else is feeling the

exact same way that the truth. And so the feeling that I have and that you haven't working with somebody that if I'm writing comedy or writing music and I'm like, oh, I've never written with this person before, and I don't want to see something stupid, They're probably feel in the same way. They probably are. But but man, that's in the real not outside our world. That's not a common thought, you know. I mean, I think there's a certain element. Uh well, I like your your new book. I know

that it's a winning through losing. Oh yeah, I wrote it. I did a Ted talk and I'm writing a book. I mean, there's there's that's a that's an upside down. We write and work in an upside down world where we get together and we're instantly gonna build a bridge and discuss very true personal things. And I spent years in a corporate and vine where you know, five years in someone will mention, oh, yeah, you know some personal fact. You know, Oh yeah, my, well you're facing some crisis

at home or we're facing some other reality. But that's not something you talk about in a in a corporate environment. So we're backwards, and it's weird to being in a right or being and I gat a creative space where you have to get vulnerable. Even for me, like I'll say on the radio, like I'm terrible being vulnerable away from my job a man in my job, it's I can drop all the walls because I have to face successful.

And you, as a writer, you have to. Yeah, and it's weird you go into somebody you don't know and be like, Okay, let me tell you're really heart wrenching tail. Here's what I'm wrestling with in my own life. I was talking about therapist today about it give me a decorp you know it is. It is kind of a backward, but you've done so. I guess we could kind of start.

Let me just mention before I know what we'll get around some of this stuff because I don't always like just talking about songs specifically, but uh, you you just see you wrote Pontoon one of the stories, and because we've actually had the other writers into that, um, Natalie was like, you know, you know, you know, back that hitch up into the water. But it wasn't hitch, it wasn't hit. Eric Passley is the one who made it hitch. It was back that other thing. Okay, back that bitch

in the water. That's the first thing she said. You know, looks like come on girls. She was like, we're not doing this, come on girl, and she goes I would say, back this bitch up into the water and we screamed with laughter. Well, pass As, I understand it. I wasn't. There is the one who said you should say hitch when they need the radio at it to Natalie. So Eric is not a writer on the song. He just heard it and was like, hey, you should now he just said it to me and I didn't know that

till long after, but he should. Jed Hughes played the riff with j Joyce and that's so wonderful. And I was watching a little big down at it Jarnity event. We did that microphone we did a um, I didn't do it. I went to a charity event and uh so I live in Nashville, but I used to live in Brentwood. Don't know what part of town you live, Well, you know Snead Road in Hillsboro, so it's considered Franklin, but it's not anywhere. It's really Brentwood. So okay, maybe

you'll know the house I'm talking about. It down in Brentwood. You get off a concorde and for those that are all over, just just just follow me on this. There's this hum monkous house across from Governor's Club. So I used to have a Governor's Club and I would always see this huge Monko's house and I was like, I don't know, like a sound of music kind of house monster. So I went to a charity event at this house and it's it's a couple of jewelers. They were very nice. Yes,

they're very sunglasses, very kind gentleman. I didn't get to spend a lot of time with them because it was it was it was a charity event for for an Alzheimer's um event, and Kimberly Paisley was there, a mom that was Alzheimer's and but we're there and a little Big Town was playing and so they it was you know, it's as I get to do things now because at

my job that I normally wouldn't get to do. And I'm sitting there by a hundred people in the room and there you know, playing the song and they come out and they start playing pontoon, and all I can think about the entire song is that hitch was changed. Like that's all I'm telling you, the whole show, the whole everything, and that should be like and I was. There was an awesome event and a lot of money was raised. All I could think it was like they changed they change it to hits. That's all I can

ever think about. Well, it's funny is Natalie will change it to hitch button. She'll tell the story about buying the pontoon and won't change the word there. You're like, well, if if you're gonna say that, you may as well go and say it all you wrote it when she did this show, because she came by it's about a few months now. She was talking about how she was buying a boat and then the song was playing. The guy I was like, I hate this song. She just

she just said it's just kept from Outho. She wouldn't play at it first. You know, we would play these shows with me and Luke and Hard would play these bluebird things and she wouldn't want to. You know, she loves a little big town and everything. But but she I think because it was so it's a fun light song. Did you think that song again, because the first time I heard it, I was like, this song is really goofy. I thought, I said, this song is really goofy, And

I don't know if I don't know have goofy. It's not so goofy now because we know it. It's it's like when you you know, uh, that now is normal to us because we've heard so many times. So Pontoon is not that goofy to me anymore. And a lot of it's Jay Joyce's production and Little Big Town, and that had been cut a different way, you know, that would have been super goofy. Could did you feel when you finished writing it it ever had a chance to have legs to be anything. I didn't think it would

do what it did. I thought I thought it might get cut. Natalie and Luke were already having singles, you know, start to take off and do things, specially Luke, and so I thought, I mean, we started it, and it was seven months before we finished it because we wrote just the first little bit and then stopped and get hung on hitch. We're like, we can't figure out what

comes after seven months. So Natalie and I only had the things she had to do and getting our calendars back together and all that, and then we got back together. It was right around Luke's birthday, so she came over and we gave up. If everybody wanted to Luke, you're not talking about Luke Bryan, No, I'm sorry. Luke lay over here too, That's right. So for Nuke reds Luke Lair, Yeah, so and so he. I came home after we wrote

it and was laughing. I told my wife, I said, you know, I don't know what to make of this thing. It's so so funny, but you know, I don't know, but Natalie and Luke have a lot of attention right now. Maybe something will happen. Never occurred to me that it would be such a big deal for me. It is my first number one. That's a thing too, where if you're in the room at the time with Natalie and Luke, they're having success, they're not writing a lot of songs

that aren't at least getting looked at. That's right. So you know in that room that what you write at least is going to get a bigger look than if you're writing with a couple of other writers who weren't as hot at the night. That's right. Oh yeah, no question. And if Luke and Natalie we're here, they'd be horrified by this whole conversation. But you and I know it's absolutely true. Of course you're in the room with Rodney Claus. And there's a pretty good chance to people are gonna

listen to Rodney Claus to Rodney song. Yeah, they might want to take a listen to that. Yeah, and uh and I think that's a pretty good deal. It's funny to have three people talking about this song because we've got three different three of the same stories, but all from a different slightly different A. Yeah, we did a c M A thing um and they we on tape, you know, and they interviewed us over at sound Aporium,

and when we left, you know, we just nodded. And when we left, I said to Natalie and Luke, hey, before we go, we know that's not what really happened, right, It's like stories before you get pulled in. Here's how the bank was robbed. Remember, stick to the story. Here's what we did, right, right? Is that what we do? It's like the movie like say the number back out loud, say this real loud. So okay, okay, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. And sometimes you'll

think something and then it's not who, um, pontoon? Whose idea was that? You remember? Like the initial idea? Well, I thought that the Natalie said it. Natalie said the word pontoon and um and Luke and I heard it fly across the room and I started googling instantly pontoons song and just to see, you know what it said.

And uh, and there weren't any other pontoon. So like that's the thing, right, You have to make sure sometimes you know, it's one thing if it's like I love you, but if it's something that I mean, the nineties happened, So pontoon seemed like, I mean, there's a watermelon crawl, so there may be a pontoon out there, you know,

and I want to know about it. And uh. And again, when I'm in a room with somebody like Natalie, who's so talented and Luke, who is so good at what he does, I don't want to waste that day, you know, I don't want to waste any day actually, and so um, so I just googled it and then I looked at Luke and we're clear and he started playing that groove. And now did Natalie have it in mind before she

came in. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. She was telling another story about their song called Fine Tune, which is on Mirando's fourth record, and Um, somebody had misheard the title and said, oh, what's that song pontoon? And so anyway, however it happened, we started it, and then

about seven months later we finally finished it. They played it for Dirks and he didn't like it, and they played it for um Kicks Brooks Brooks and done it just parted ways and so Kicks and a nice email saying he thought it was hilarious, but he would not record it. And then that was really the end. And then when Creative Nation started, which is Beth and Luke

and I'm I'm over there. Um, first week, first meeting Bets at her kitchen table, she goes, I'm going over to play songs for Jason for a little big town and I think I'm gonna play there their manager and um, and she goes, how do you feel about pontoon? I was like, that's a great idea, and so that was what she played. And then after that it was real that's really Jason in a little big town and j Joyce and Jed Hughes on the lick, and I mean we were a pretty amazed where it went. I get that.

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you go, Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast. All right. So, I mean there's so much and it's like what interests to me are not even like the because you have the other number ones too, But some of these songs, like I'm such a big Brothers fan, like I've known those guys so right this way, so let me tell you my brother's story, because I'm sure you have a wonderful story too, like by when it comes to people that I just enjoy, like that trust is humans, both

of them. And I know I've known John closer longer I've got no No t J A lot closer later. T J lives like two doors down from Amy my co host Now and so and Lucy Silva's is very very close. If you don't love use Silva, you came to my friend, this is me. We're calling Lucy or no, no, no, no. We have before, Yeah, we have before. So I was at a um what they call a morning show boot camp. Okay, so they have these and they asked me, They said, hey, will you come in and speak at a morning show

boot camp? But so what it is. It's a bunch of radio people and like nerds like myself, And in my younger days, I would have given a finger to go to this, but they didn't have any money something They've never paid for me to go, and I couldn't afford it. But it was at the point of my career where they were like, hey, would you come speak Because I had built my own syndication company, and you know, I had risked a lot and I had some fortunate things happened because of the risk, and so I'll go

up and give my story. And after I finished, they were like, Hey, these two new guys are gonna come and play. Nobody's ever heard of them. They're gonna come play for all the radio people. And I'm like, all right, cool, cool, cool, and these two two guys, one you know, kind of weirdly bearded dude and it's deep, I don't know, some other some other other dude to talk, you know, talk like this brother's Osmore came up and they just an

acoustic guitar. One when used the guitar and they came up and they dipping, and I was like, these guys are good, and like nobody cared because I was paying attention because it wasn't the right environment. It wasn't that they weren't good, because obviously they are, but it wasn't the right environment and they just wanted to get him a front of radio people. And it wasn't even country. It was like pcent country people, you know, thty percent pop u hot a c. It was just everyone and

nobody cared. And I remember going, man, those guys are good. Yeah, they're good there there. I love him. And my son is my wife, and she was she loves his voice, TJ's voice. And I knew John first because he was kind of he was around first, he was around in a band, but I really knew him through Lucy because

I met Lucy. I think she said that I was one of the first people she met in that Villain I know, I introduced her to Buzzby and several other people, and and then she and John were trying to figure out if they were going to date, and then they were and and so so then through them I met t J and the John John and Charlie Worsham were in the same band for a while and no one

could figure out what to do with that. Just think about that too, and it's like the Christapleton's and the John Singleton's and then just like wait, you didn't know what to do with that. It was almost too good for people to understand. It confuses them a little bit, like whoa this I don't know what this is. It's too good. It's like it's like too fireworks that was happening at the same time, So you don't know what You don't want to look at both of them, so

you just lower your head. Yeah, which is wild. So you wrote wrong with with these fellas on one chord. It's one chord all the way through. They're they're doing because they're so musical, they're doing different things over it in inversions. But basically you could strongly maybe I'd like to play like D I got or whatever they time the root chord is they maybe in D sharper, But if you play an open D through that or whatever the one chord is, you can play it through the

whole song. You would never know you could use words there. Should have put words there. What are you thinking that would have taken it on up? Yeah? Dang. So that was not a number one, but it was. It was their introduction. It helped them get to that. They'd had one single before that didn't do well. What was the song before that? I can't remember. I was trying to think of it as afraid you was gonna ask you, Well,

you were right. Rom was really the first one that where they were like actually getting some real like oh there may be something to these guys. And and even then, I mean it's taken even at my fault was just hit ten. That's it. And they are so good, they're winning all the awards and there there critically crushing. It's like Marin for ex Apple, she doesn't have a number one that you know, my church is not number one? Yeah,

how about that? It doesn't matter. That's true of old rock and roll, you know, like oh yeah, was like didn't have a number one. I could be rolling about which one did, but there's like they didn't have a number one till freaking armageddon. I don't want to miss a thing. You're talking about rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So, yes, there's this thing right where Yes and so and and Brothers are in that thing. Now. Yeah, they're good. Everybody loves them. They're winning all the awards. When they got

on the bus, it was in California. The theater off the crumbled in, and they were like, we're not letting this show going for those who are listening and don't know the story. So Brother's rocks hard. I mean they're a rock and roll band and they play country songs. They're rock and roll band the plays country songs. So they're they're playing in this theater in California and the roof crumbles in, and they have stopped the show because

of all the safety hazards. So they go and they're like, everybody go outside, and they get on top of their tour bus and they play their show on their tour bus on the roof of their tour bus. I called him and and they're probably take because it was like four in the morning where they were because they were West coast, because I had to get him on the air and talk about this, and I was like, John, this is the most rock and roll thing I've seen

it like the past ten years. First of all the roof and then having kind of the wherewithal to go. You know what, how can we make this work? This about a show for our fans, and we're gonna do it, and even just the science of it. Let's get higher than are not just play it on the stairs or on the street. Let's get up where everybody can still see. There were so many levels where I was like, their next level. I love them, I mean, and you know, t J pretty much tell you what he thinks. Uh,

for sure, we'll tell you what he thinks. And the more he drinks, the more things that that's right. I get to write with him, I think. You know, I don't know what'll be on the new record, but they let me write with him some more. So it was really good. I love We had a David Neil cut together and you know that kind of thing, and they had John and t J on there, but not not a lot, you know, I mean, uh, because John is ferocious. When I I don't know which song it was at

this point. Was it twenty one summer or was it? But we played a seven minute guitar solo on the record, Stay a little longer, Stay a little longer. That's by the way he played it was I believe a seven minute guitar solo, I know. And I was like, man, somebody's crushing this thing. And I talked and that was John, and I was like, oh, you play this thing like I used my hand. And we were at dinner one night and I was talking to him about just guitar.

And because John does not look like a nerd now, he looks like the opposite of a nerd, you know. He looks like a cool guy who's almost too cool that you're intimidated to go talk to because because he's in Denom and he's got this big beer and he's like, this guy does not give Yeah, And he was like, man, I was the biggest nerd. And I just said in my room and we just played guitar all the time because I was such a nerd. Yeah, And what a way to transform. When I was younger, I had a

little poster from a magazine. It was a Yamaha and I think but I can't remember, may have been Gibson, but it said, well, it showed a guy going on stage and said, well, others party, do you practice? Now it's your turn to play. And I've never thought of that when until I saw that, at thought, that's what it is. You think of prints same deal? You know John mayor to May like he would just go in his room. Now there's there's a gift. But I think we all have some sort of gift, and it's do

we take and do we fine tune that gift? And how hard do we find tune that gift? Because dear, I'm asset in a room and just read books. I was, I mean, I got to crabby out of me my whole life. Not not anymore. I'm I'm beating people up now. But that's what I did. I went to my room and read books and wrote. Always said, if I look like this in high school, it would have been a completely different trajectory. I think I was the last human

in the eighties to get their growth spurts. So my high school I look like, you know, the kid from Wonder Years or Doogie Howser my whole time. And so you know, it's just funny because now you know, I'll say, well, you know when you kind of feel pushed around and people kind of look at me because you know, if you can't see me, but I'm fat and older guy and gray beard and you're not that old. But but back then it's not if you're listening like Google, I'm

a thousand years old Google. Very deep, are you? Thank you? Though? Very nice for sweet So anyway, and so I can see why you do this. You're so flattering, you're yeah, yeah, like what you're from. You're from your a Kansas boy right right, born Oklahoma and raised in Pittsburgh, Kansas. Kind of your Joplin, Missouri right there in the corner. Yeah, that's because in Arkansas, that's where we we go up and you go up in that area like jop on the Did you watch Ozark at all? Yes? I did

remind you at home at all? Yeah? Man, it reminded me of home. Yeah, and like the real like and I say it like I grew up And some people don't like the term, but I grew up really white trash. Yeah, I understand. And I just say that so people can relate to it with I having to explain my circumstance and so I've watched the show, I've related more to the people that lived there that we're dealing with the issues than I did the main caracter. Absolutely I understood him.

I understood the people that lived there and have these few options. Yeah, my options what and and none of them are good? None of them are It's like we we have only a few options and none of them are good. Which option are we going to take? Well, I say that I'm wired up for the apocalypse, not but if you give me the choice between ice cream or pie, you can melt me down. Two good things. I can't handle that, two bad things, no problem. I can do that all day. And I think that's part

of that upbringing. You know, you come up tough, and you come up not tough, like I'm definitely yeah, we know we know to move and get away. But I mean more more like, you don't have a lot of things. You you stand out because you don't have the nikes or the whatever's, you know what I mean? That was how I was, you know, I mean, you know, my mom made my clothes when I was a little you know,

I mean that kind of a thing. I was lucky that I had that, you know, I mean, but it was a different deal, you know, and then my kids know it's weird, isn't weird because I don't have any kids, and so but i'd like to have kids, and I like you grew up with very little, very little, very

very little. But I think, and you know, when I'm running the second book now, and a big part of it is a lot of what I don't even like to say endured, a lot of what I learned, nice word, from being five to twenty two has made me so strong that today I'll knock it down like I am. It may look tough for a second, it may be a daunting task for a minute, but that this is nothing like that that I learned like and and I

can do things and I have learned from it. So for me, like if I have kids, like I almost feel like they won't get to there's this guilt, like if I bring a kid in like I do pretty well now, Like I'm a single guy. I got a great job, I got a national radio show, so there's already a I don't even have kids, and I feel guilty that I have kids. So you gotta have that too. Now you have some success, how do you teach your kids to not be jerks. Yeah, well they unfortunately they

take after their mother. But I think that's a great point. We were just back visiting in Kansas, not for Thanksgiving but over the summer, and I had him go over and you know, do stuff with my dad and sweep the warehouse floor and do the different thing. Do they get it or is it like a field trip to them? I think it's a field trip for them. But the other thing I would say is they pick up from me and Gin what matters to us. And it's interesting, but they I think they notice that what we respect

and what we don't respect. I respect people that work hard. I respect people that are kind to other people. And Jennifer especially feels like you should be involved and help other people, and they seem to be doing that, you know, And I'm watching Luke Laird's little boys are younger than mine, and so you know, they're already acting like their dad and their moms. So you're like, they'll probably pick it up from you. I mean, for me, what I wasn't

prepared for was dealing with good you know. I mean, I'm kind of wired up, and I think you are too, probably just from I've read your book and and and so it sounds to me like you're kind of like similar. I'm not saying it's the same, but wired up for the long haul, you know, like I will show up.

I will be there. It's what I know. Yeah, it's the only thing that I consistently have is that I will show up every time we try to take vacations now, which is something we never for did, girl, I never my my parents would take us on these business trips.

My dad had to go to with it where you would show his products, you know, at the show, and he would say, from the interstate, you see those buildings over there, that's downtown Dallas, somewhere down over there is where John Kennedy was shot, and that's you know, that's how we saw That's how we saw Dewlie Plaza or those kinds of things that he was. He was trying to show it, but he was. You know, my mother

when he were raised in rural Oklahoma. My dad, my grandfather was a sharecropper, so they were they were culturally shifting from where they had been. You know. So the thing about you too, is that like you're a grinder, Like not on grinder, but you're a grinder in that. It took you a minute. Oh yeah, because yeah, you moved to California first, right, I write songs out there. It's amazing. Yeah, you've really Yeah, that's right. When I

was young, eighteen years old, I've been out there. So it's like, you know, at eighteen, we're almost like we have got the whole world ahead of it. Who cares if we fail, let's just go. But you go, And I mean it didn't work out. So you went to you went to write like, you know, top four whatever, Top forty was at the time at the time, pretty soft, but it was yeah, the eighties pop, you know. And I was kind of like the worst, like Rick Astley,

without the credibility and importance. And so I went out there and I was doing that thing and and you know, really I ran out of brave. I don't have a bad story about l A. I got in with the top guy at A and M and the time, I mean, I just kept hustling and then there was just a moment of Thanksgiving. It was Barney's Beanery. I was by myself.

I had a little brother back home, and uh, and I grew up in a very religious conservative religious environment, so pursuing pop music in the late eighties was seen as the wide way to destruction. So it had created a big rift in the family for me to do this. So they were like, what are you doing? Yeah, well, yeah, there was a period of time back then. I'm I think we're through that. But where people would uh, you know, there was Christian music, which was not like it is now.

It was more like a there was some good Christian music and but but it was like, there's a secular band that big, here's the Christian version of it, and um, and I went towards the pop side, and because that's where the door opened. It really, that's what it came down to. Did you get close at all? Did you

feel like that? I got pretty I mean I got closer than I should have because I was, you know, like, I did some songs I played them for there was a guy at the Capital, and there was a guy at A and M and and the A and M guy was like, do three or four more and come back. They didn't pay for him, but they and so then

I went and did those. But that was when I kind of ran out of I just ran out of brave, you know, And I saw, I went back home, sold all the gear, and in retrospect, I kind of went into the darkness a little bit, just kind of I didn't know that, but I just sort of whatever, you know, my dad signed me. He said, if you're going to live back here for a while, you're going to go to college. I said, picked him. He picked my major, and it was just it was it was great to

let me come back and printing management. Printing management, he said, because they're always going to be people who need to print checks, which made sense and whatever that was or nine and uh so I did those classes and I took music classes. You know Jennifer Shot that wrote this town still talks about you with Natalie. She's from my hometown. My wife and Jennifer Shot cheerleader together. And her father was my saxophone instructor from eighth grade until college and

through college and um so, and I didn't graduate. You know, I was never I just was lost. I really was just lost. Then I started working at the company and and helped grow that and um and there was a Christian singer, young lady. Now we're in the nineties and I'm helping run that company and doing software and video and things like that. And a friend of mine said, Hey, there's this one singer in this Christian worship group. You should go here. I had a I had a video studio,

we had animation studios and suits. We had all that for this education company. And UM, part of that, I would buy little bits of gear that I never could afford. You know, the nineties had happened Nirvana, so everybody was selling off their drum machines and synths. Well those were things I couldn't have afforded back then. So you know, i'd buy a land drum and I'd buy a synth. And I had a little room. And so I went and heard this young lady and and um, so I

helped with her independent record. Her name was Jennifer Napp and uh and so she had an album called wishing Well, which became an album called Kansas and it did really well. But she didn't know I wrote. I just sort of let him use my studio and came in and helped mix the indie record and then um, somewhere in there, um, we were in town on business. So I came to Nashville and I gotten married, and we went to the Blue Bird that was amazing. I've never been around. That

kind of helped me locate my soul again. And then we went home and I got called to meet with another education company. Maybe it wasn't really headhunting, but it was that kind of a scenario. And I told Jennifer about it, and we've only been married a year and a half, and she said, well, if if that's your passion, you know, we should do that. And I laughed and she was what And I was like, um um, I think it was thirty five. I'm not sure passions. How we should do this. You know, I got a good

job in a small town. I need to be thankful for that, you know. And so she kept pushing me, what what is it that you wanted to do? What did you And I never talked about going to l A and I mean she knew generally I had done some music. But finally we had a conversation and I said, what I really wanted to do was be a songwriter and work in the studios. I don't really think I had the artistics the artist stick like an artists personality on the stage and uh, but I wanted to work

in that field and and write songs. I love to write songs. Now, I didn't think this was a goal to pursue. I was just admitting that that had been the goal. And um, it may have been a week, it could have been two or three weeks. She came in and she said, well, you take me on a cruise for our second anniversary. And I suggest, ma'amouil, and she goes, this is the one and Nashville Songwriters Are Association.

They had done. They did a song cruise. It was like Hugh Prestwood and and uh Ralph Murphy and Steve Seskin and a bunch of a bunch of pro writers Craig Wiseman, and they would in the morning, while you're having breakfast, they would talk about songwriting and then you'd go snorkel, rerecord, scooter or whatever you'd normally do on your cruise. And so that's what we did. We and

I sat in the back and took notes. I couldn't play the guitar yet, Um I played piano and I'd already heard you weren't supposed to do that, So I just sat in the back and took notes. Everybody else, you know, was kind of the person at the party that pulls out their guitar and play songs. I wasn't that guy. And so the last day Wiseman and Prestwood came over and said, you know, we can't really tell whether you are good or you suck, but you're the only one who hasn't tried to play as a song.

And so I played him a song and they said you should come to town next month and start coming back and forth. And by the way, Wiseman doesn't remember this at all, but it was life changing for me. So that just does to the kind of impact I make when I meet someone. And but I started coming back and forth, taking guitar lessons from Ellen Britain here in town and going home and practicing and and uh, I don't know. We did that for a while how long, probably a year maybe two, And then I got signed

all this. Okay, let's back here. You married her something from from your town, and you brought her here and she was the instrumental and you getting here. Yes, I was married once before, um, when I was very young. When I came back um, and when I was very young, I'm married. We had a little boy, and then I ended up being a single parent raising him full time, and and uh, of course my parents were trying to help with that too, because I was working, so my

mom was helping. And so I kind of assumed I'd just be single and raise Alex and that's what we do. And and um then I met Jin and uh and so she really, I mean strangely, she really changed my life. So, I mean, it's weird because normally you hear like the spouse is like, that's crazy. You've got a good job, we've got benefits, you're gonna risk it all go do this. I was the guy saying that this is crazy. And then we had a well I don't know if you know this, but I have a daughter as well, and

she has special needs. So right in the middle, right as we were preparing to do all that signing the deal and stuff, you know, we have this baby born sixteen weeks early and all that kind of stuff. And uh, for me, it was like, Okay, we're done. We got a good job, small town, we're locking this down. And for Jennifer it was not that way. For her, it was we're gonna need to be in a town with a children's hospital. Alex needs a better high school. I mean,

I love my hometown. It's our hometown. But you know, Alex was not you know, a football alignment. He was a I mean, he was the kid that could quiz out of Algebra one and two in sixth grade, That's who. And he liked that it was great at it. And so I'm looking at that going. You know, at least I was angry enough as a kid that I could sort of smileth the enough that I could survive. But this kid's brilliant and kind. Maybe he needs a different

educational opportunity than I had, you know. I mean, there's there's greatness that comes from loving your environment but also knowing how it was hard and shaped you. But there is another side that goes I'm not sure every kid needs to be put through that, you know what I mean. I mean, like I understand what you're saying, Do I know what you mean? Not yet? Well, I think you'd be I've read your book. I think you'ld be a great dad. I mean, but I'm not in charge of

the scoring of dads. But but you know, you've got the heart for it. You you're you want to do well and it is amazing how you know. But I just anyway, that's how I got into this was going back and forth. And then even after I signed my deal, even after the first song was on the radio, UM, I was like, maybe maybe it's too big a jump because everybody at here so great, you know, these raw talent people, you know, And what was the first song was on the radio for you God's Will with Martina McBride.

It feel like, man, my song is on the radio, Like like, what in the world, I was punt of checks cover. You make any money from the song? Yeah? Yeah, that album sold couple of million copies and that that song got to number sixteen, and um, but for me, it was you know, it was also a songwriting lesson because you know I I wrote by myself, as I said, And so Reba cut a song of mine that I wrote by myself. It was called Moving Alida Moviela. It was the hardest thing. The nurses son, old woman crying,

but he saw the love of his life. She don't know where she is, but she knows this isn't home. Loud is a hard, hard road, still get you. It's amazing that she did it. Um And again, I this shares a lot of the themes of a lot of the songs I've had recorded are that. I didn't think anyone would record them. Um. In this case, it's it was so personal and so sad. It wasn't even supposed to have been played for the publisher. My friend Byron burned my schedule a CD that you when you first

signed a deal, they listened to all your songs. He just saw it in the folder and drug it over. So they called me from Nashville. I'm still in Kansas and they said, hey, well there's a song on here about an old woman. It's about halfway done. I had a verse in a chorus and I was like, I'm not sure. It's called moving Alita or something. And I was like, oh, that wasn't so sorry. That was not supposed to be on there. And they started. Chris Oglesby started let he goes, that's the only one I like.

I was like ouch, and he was like, no, seriously, you need to do I mean it was a CD responding of things like that. One told you to like something but you like, but you hated the rest. I saw the Grammy special that was on sixty years of the Gramms. Do you see that Stevie Wonder is on there? And they say they're talking about how many times he's sung on the Grammys in twenties. Sometimes but he goes, yeah, it's been good to me, and I wanted. He's an older guy. He's like, but I've never one song of

the year. That's my goal. I'm gonna try to win song of the Year. He's won twenty five Grammys. There was a period of four years in the seventies where he one album of the year three out of four years, different albums, and but all he can think about is I never one song of the year. And it probably haunts the crap you can tell you can You don't get to that without having that in you, good or bad. That's the little engine that that's what pushes. It's those

little things that burn you, burn you. Yeah that's true, man, Yeah, so yeah, that's right. So anyway, we moved to Nashville after God's Will and uh, but but I went after Yeah, it was after that was on the radio, and I was gonna say about the writing was so I wrote Moving Alita, and I didn't think they should finish it, you know, should record it, a demo it, But they had me demo it and then um Reba heard it

and recorded it and I'm super great full. And that song then opened the door for Tom Douglas and I had to write. I had met him, we'd had coffee once, but I would I'd never ask anybody to write, because I always felt like that was pretty presumptive, and I still do for me and uh but um we wrote, and it was all morning. I was throwing every kind of clever thought that I thought was country. And then he took me to lunch, which you know is the sign for you have failed. And so we went to

lunch and then we went we came back. He goes, let's go in for a few more minutes. Is there anything else you've been thinking about? I said, well, this is not commercial, but I have this idea. And I talked about this a song called God's Will. I wrote these things in my journal and blah blah blah, and he goes, could I see it? And I just tore the pages out of my journal and spread them on

the piano. And that's how he wrote that song. And and that was a big life lesson for me as a writer, because all of a sudden, I was like, Okay, so this is for me. I'm gonna have to put myself out there to do this, To take your journal and just put it out there, that's about as vulnerable as you'd be. Yeah, And so I thought, Okay, well that's what this is gonna be. That's gonna be hard, and uh, because I was pretty locked up. And I know I seem like a free spirit, bohemian kind of guy,

but I was very locked up and um. But so that was the beginning of that journey. And so now that's really I do keep all my notes and my scribbles and my journals and and and it's worked the other way to where like when we wrote with Katherine McPhee, you know, after a day or so together, the next day she sat down and opened her journal and we read it together. And so I've been really kind of blessed that artists kind of no, I'm not I'm on

your team. You know, I'm here to help you know, So what I'm always some of these songs, you know, weren't massive like radio hits, but that I enjoy. So I know you, Steve More, you guys are both creative. Steve I was just with him, we were doing vocal. One of the nicest guys. He's the best guy and Gracie his wife, like they're just they're good people, right, and so you guys are being so and all the ground.

That's a guy who they haven't figured out what to do with yet when they and when they do, that's his trouble because he's that good. He's got fans, he's got you know, he's got the work ethic, he's it's great. We wrote that it's Luke Blaird and Thomas Rhett and I wrote that it's been pretty cool bag he's he's a good guy. And then my co host like, all right, he was wating my COEs like best friends. Okay, all right, yeah complain. So let's see. I mean, you have massive heads.

I always tend to go away. The song like day Drinking for a little big time, This is a monster. Number one was this. This is the first song on that album, right, like this is the Yeah, Pontoon was the first single off the one before it, and this was the first one off. Man, how easy is that when you get the first single both times? That's good. That's grateful, you know that. And we there's no waiting around like it's gonna be a single, Like when you

get the first single off both Records. We wrote this maybe a year before the album came out. We we we thought, oh, we'll write with them and then we'll write some more with them. That's the only time I wrote with him for that record, and that song I had to sit there for a year, you know. Did you feel like as it was sitting there that there was something to it or as as it in there, the longer agoes the more just kind of was worried.

I really was worried. I mean, they have so many great songs, but but they kept saying that's what they were gonna do, and and I think they cut it a few times to get it, you know, I mean the demo, it's very similar to the demo, I mean, which is rare normally j Joyce changes it drastically, certainly made it cooler, but it's very close to the demo. And we again, you know, Troy had the title and when he said it, I kind of gave him the head no, like no, maybe not, and they were like,

we love it. I was like, okay, you like it, and she whistled. She was on vocal. She was trying to give herself vocal rest in during the week, you know, and so she did it, and I thought she wanted whistling in the song, so I swung the mic around and we all whistled like crazy people. And later she was like, I was just trying to show you that melody that Troy had played, and I was like, oh, so I'm working on my listening skills, but are they not so good? So how about this one here? Michael

Ray think at less. Uh, well that's Thomas Rhett and Jimmy Robbins, John Knight and myself wrote it on the bus. Um, Thomas Thomas's bus as the first of his number one was climbing and so he wasn't there yet. Um and um wait so as Thomas is going on is afraid that first number one but he's paying for three riders on the road with them. Um. He just led us right, We're all on one bus and we all just sort

of crammed in there. John Knight wasn't there. John and Jimmy had the It started the little riff and the title and then um, then me and Thomas jumped ontr We jumped on it and and trs on, I have other songs with you. The Suitcase is another one. Yeah, and I think we were in Uh, I feel like we were in Ohio, maybe in Columbus, Ohio when we wrote that, And so did you? Was it like, Okay, where's it gonna go? When you wrote it? Was it a tr song? We thought? So. We knew he was trying.

They were trying to get him to get some sexy numbers, and so we thought of sexy number number take back everything I said about you being young, your sexy numbers. All, hey, let's do some sexy numbers. And three. Last night I was watching that Burt Burns bang thing and the guy goes, it was so funky. It was so funky. That's like I know exactly what I just sounded like. And uh, he was like ninety. It was so funky. But we wrote it and then he didn't cut it. So I thought, well,

that's probably it. Four years to the week from when we wrote it. It went number one. Four years. Yeah, it's set there. The craziest song can last that long. It's still be cool. I couldn't believe it. Well, Michael was happy, and all your songs are great like years later, He's just it's like wine. Not all my songs like enough.

That's what I wrote. Mostly balanced the first few years, you know, because that's what I you know how it is when whatever got you in the game, so to speak, just I think subconsciously reinforcement wise, you're like, well, that must be the thing, you know, Like you wouldn't want to go to Barbra Streissan and say this song not the note. I mean, she's going to do the big note.

And that's what bought the house. And so I was really you know, I was killing a lot of people in my songs and it was a high body count, you know, it was like a nineties rap album, and um, but we did. That's why I did. I wrote a lot of songs and then and then if I would write a fun song, we would turn it in. They'd be like, why are you doing that. You don't write the fun songs. You write the heavy songs. The pain magnet,

you know. They would say stuff like that. So okay, and then Pontoon hit and then people would show him go, I just see like a summer song. It's just like a fun song. Quicker get put into these little categories just attic and you're like, well, okay, I guess I am the you know, the least fun guy in Nashville. I should write the summer songs. That's funny. So you know, I just, I mean, I pretty much have your whole catalog here. That's not all good. You're right, You're right

some of them. I'm just You're like, you don't want to talk about you being nice. But like this song here, I love I love when it was on maren Z because I'm maren Z Pete business Like. I listened to that EP and that record so much. I can't even as the person who talks on the radio, I don't even know what the singles were from a record anymore, because you just because I love the whole album so much. Yeah,

that wasn't a single, was it? Okay, it wasn't love it. Yeah, she's great, And you wrote that with her before she was Marion Morris, which was Mary Morris. Yeah. Yeah, Well, and Natalie I know called her. I didn't call her, but I met her and it hurt her, and then I was like, okay, that's just right because she's just magic. And and we wrote a lot of great songs, but its a lot of heavy songs and then a lot of fun songs. It was one about the summer that

was fun. And but that one, you know, I feel like, and you did this on the morning, that you make it fun, you make it easy, get everybody comfortable, because it'll it'll go a lot better if everybody's as safe as you can make it, you know. And and and that's how we try to do our our rights, you know, as to try to get everybody loose and everybody knowing how you can. You can be wrong, you can make a mistake if you want to play the shaker or the guitar and you're not a guitar player, that's okay.

Let's just have a good time. And and then invariable when you start start doing that, somebody will say it'll it'll fly through the room and you'll see it, you know. And and that's a case where you know, she made some comment about like drunk girls drunk cry, and we were like, yes, And she may have had that as a title, but it didn't she didn't present it in a formal way, and we just chased it, you know,

And it was fun. I remember her downstairs doing vocals on the work tape, and I would say, because she's such a good singer, and she works so hard, and and I always wanted her to get to laugh, have more fun, and so I would be like, now, sing it like your best friend in high school, now singing it like you know, we're the girl that was always mean? Do you do you never understand why? Sing it like her now? And we would just and she would change

her voice. It was amazing. And then we played a show in London, a little one like not like she's played the big stage over there, but we were just doing a bluebird comes to see to see and and she really, you know, we almost did it, but we did. I've never played it out with her, but it'd be fun to hear her do it live. You know a song that wasn't a number one that if you would have asked me how to bet it was? Is this

one from McGraw sing like that's the laster. It's some songs are lasters even though they didn't hit number one. This is the last awesome thing, like me and you where'd that one end up? You know? Three went to number one? Not that I was watching? How fresh? How frustrated? Is there a big difference in getting paid for a three and a one? Not really different than a seven and one? Yes? There is? Where is kind of that five threshold. Always stay in the top five pays about

the same. But but but then it's different, you know, after that, what do you have? Because I'm fasting because and then again I have friends who are songimes and I'm not gonna bring up it on there. They tell me how much number one it gets paid, right, so they're like, hey, you split it out by the time you the difference between I think a little Less, which is the number one, and Girls Chase Boys, which is in a different format is getting played all which which

song did you make more money off of? Uh, that's a good question. I'm gonna a probably Girls Chase Boys because it did cross It didn't go into the top twenty on top forty, but because it crossed the top forty, if it had just stayed on Adults or Hottie See, it would not make as much as a country song. But but it crossed over and and it played on Hottie Sea up into the top two or three, and so it did really well there. And it's only a three way, so that has a huge factor. Day drinking

is a a five way? I think, No, no, a four way. Let me count. I mean, when you get that many people. It's a five way five people drink because it how many of little bit to day drinking. Everybody but Kimberly, I remember telling the story she was was she like cooking another room or something, or she had like a TV show and she did that she was doing. Maybe that's that's the I think she had

a thing for that. And you know, I've with with Luke, Troy and I've written with the whole band, which is that's a leg stick, you know thing I like when we write with the Osborne boys, Troy and I will we'll write with them. It's a four way and it's really worth it because Troy so guitar, he's great, Troy vergess Is, you know, he's just a pro. But but he can shift over with John and inspire John and I can work with t J and then we can grow it all together. But so, yeah, speaking of you

n tr right together? Didn't didn't tr right this year? Yeah? Afore? I mean, come on, Joe, Joe, Joe dip it. Luke talked about it. I heard part of his podcast, but I didn't hear it all. So yeah, I don't know. He was Luke Laird and me and Thomas Rhett, and we spent all This happens a lot, you know, the

first several years I was here. You know, you'd show up and I'd sit down with you and we would come up with a title, and we would outline the song, and then we would write it, and we would spend all days staring at the ceiling ing and there'd be a lot of that behavior. And I'm not against that, but Luke, I think, is the master of kind of going, look, we're recording everything we're doing. If you and I are working on something and all of a sudden we have

another idea that we both go and look at. Just save what you have and chase it, it's okay. And um, so we'd spend all day on a very serious idea, much like diamond rings, We've spent all day on some other thing. And about that three o'clock time, UM, we kind of had that feeling like none of us really knows what we want to do with this song. I'm not sure we're in love with this song. Nobody wants to say it, but everybody kind of feels like, I

think we've wasted our day. And but then we didn't leave. So we wrote diamond rings. Well, the same thing happened here. We've been working on a real serious song about something God and country music or something like that. And it's like three o'clock and Thomas is a worker. Again you talk about a guy who just goes, and so Luke called but loop and um, Thomas just started kind of singing along, and I was so, I said, did you

say nineteen nine? And Luke had on a flannel with a T shirt that had Tracy Lawrence on it face shirt. He goes, Tracy Lawrence nine four like that, and I said guns and Roses or Nevada nine. And so then Thomas redos. My dad was out on the radio and in and so we were like, what would that be, n Mark Chestnut, Joe Diffy, and one of those guys went Joe Joe Diffy, and then the other one was like, let me see a Diffy and I'm like, well, the

real Joe Diffy, please stand up. And we're just laughing, having fun, joking around, and we're like, throw something down, you know. We started writing, and he threw down a verse, and then we had had with the little chorus. Second verse obviously didn't take very long, and and then it was kind of the end of the day. Luke went to a thing. I put some bass on it, mixed it out, sent it to tr that and t R sends it to his dad. His dad plays it for

Joe Diffy. And that was a Friday. And so on Monday, we're in the studio Luke and I demoing songs and he goes, hey, I gotta leave it lunchtime. I'm supposed to go up to ask app and play songs for for Jason Alden and Michael Knox. And they had only invited, you know, just a few brand name you know writers up there and um. So he laughed, and when he came back, he goes, he won't believe it. I was like what. He goes, they like Joe Diffy and I

was like, wait minute, Joe Diffy like from Friday. He was like, well, I went in and they said they need something different tempo, something with a loop on it. It's kind of different. And I thought, because I had by that point, I probably had eighteen Aldane holds. I've been hammering away because I saw Aldane's voice and the way he is. I saw it as a way to

have Southern lit you know, in the countryside. So I was sending all these I was being as important as I possibly could, and um, I'm sending it over there and I'm like, wait a minute, what And he was like, I played it just a little work tape and they were like, play it again. I played it again. They were like, I think I'm gonna cut that. Play it again. He played it three times in that room and I was like, there's no way. And then they did and

they rocked it out and everything. So so the guy who wrote God's Will is known for pontoon In It's a little different in that and Drug Girls Don't Cry. Yeah, you want to know my my favorite of all your songs? Yes, I know, you do. I do, of course I do. Yeah, you know. It's a little tune near and dear to my heart. Oh no, this could be bad. No, it's not bad at all. A little song you wrote here we go by the way. Yeah. Lindsay was one of the ones. Two. They were like, it's like because Lindsay

I did it for a long time. Yes, and it was still very close and she was like, you're gonna love Barry Dean. She was like, some people come in and it's a warm up. It's like, hey, let's see, we'll just talk about music for a second until we kind of get the feel and you know, some of them go and you talk. But she was like, Barry comes, it's over. Like you guys, you're the same, You're just the same. You're gonna love. And she was like, by the way, he I think you heard you Luke Laird

and maybe someone who else write. I think it's the three of us. Yeah, no, Lindsay, I don't like drum, but no, she's not on that. Is that a female? It has to be a female. It can't just be you and Luke throw No, because I'm embarrassing, I should know off top of my head. It's okay. It only went to like, so, no, that's not the way it was. Lindsay's gonna kill me. She wrote this song. I guess what she said, you wrote it? Huh? How about that? Anyway,

this is my favorite song. That's nice, thank you very much. And you know, we we we hoped it would get cut and then it didn't on the first round, and then she went back in and cut it and we were really happy about that, and it got a raw deal that that's a got a really raw deal. Well, you're champion a lot of people, and we appreciate it. I mean, because we're cheering for the artist. We're excited.

Then no, I don't know, like zero, there was nothing, and I was just like, that's such a catchy, fun song. He thought. That's all he needed to see was her smiling and how incredible she is, and that's gonna work a regular We sucked. I mean, it's bad and I said it on there, and then again they I think they've now kind of found what she is and it's like, let her go be her instead of trying to make her this little pop printed but she's not. Yeah, she's

she's from Calgary, Canada. What you like the country party Canada with like some rock and roll guitar and let her do her thing. But at the time, you know, it was like, let's put her in a soda shop and and fluff her hair and whatever. They anytime it's winking, I have trouble with it, like pretending, you know, wink wink, look at us here we are who we are now she says wonderful things about she'll probably hear this because I won't tell her about it. And he's wonderful and pissed.

I didn't know she wrote this song. Well, you know, I'm not thinking enough. Shut she did, alright, shut me Up, which was one of the song that's the confusing. Well, let's see, I don't know if I have anything any other song. Did you have you seen the Do you watch wrestling at all? It's a kid not that much. You know that now, And you know Luke Lair, I know you guys wonded over that. And did he tell you what I got in for when when I had

my first number one, which was Pontoon. He was his tenth number one, and he's one of my is my best friend and h so he loves whole Kogan issue. Now it's the only time I've ever seen him nervous. Was gonna when he met hall Count and Terry and we were down in Key West, and but I arranged for for his Christmas present. You know, Hulk got the first belt and then he had one mate and eighty five and then that was stolen and never has been found, and then he had a new one from eight six

to ninety three. I didn't know all this stuff. I just thought I'm gonna get him a Hulk belt, that'll be great. Well, it's harder than you think. And then I had to do the research because I deep dive on weird things and and so the next thing I know, I'm hiring Reggie, the King of Belts, who made all the belts for those for those guys, and saying I

want one made just like Hulks eighty five. But I wanted to say Songwriter of the Year because that year he was a b M I and I want to list instead of the bouts, I want to list the ten number ones in their years. So I think it's the only time I've ever actually impressed Luke Lair. He stuck his hand in, he felt around in the president he could tell it was about then he pulled it out and then he was really surprised and very heavy. We should arrange for you to check it out. I

mean it probably weighs thirty pounds. That's funny that Luke. Luke's interesting because he came in and I was like, and and again I've got to look a little more since this, but I was like, it was miserable and he and he wasn't. And I had to reach out to Bed to be like, hey, did Luke hate everything that just happened. It's like, no, we're a fantastic time. Well, you're always I don't hear you always saying well I was, I wouldn't have come up and talked to you. Well,

we would be the same, would never talked. I would never have to end you. Guys would always be like we would be the same way with you. You know that because because it's we just it's that until you do, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, if I were to see look now mud hug his neck, I would go up. And but at the time, I was like, this guy hates my guts and he has nothing. And I was so just with Luke. I was I was like, dude, like you like I love him? Yeah,

he loves it. Oh, Like I was just I could have done a whole you know show talking about that. And so he took a tour up in New York where they had the old somebody from the original early days giving you a tour of hip hop locations. I have him send you there because he had a ball. He should do that. That's something I can enjoy. I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna get I don't have family, so it's like, what am I gonna vacation? Maybe I'm not going to NewYork though it's too cold.

Maybe I do that nice summer that's perfect. Yeah, do it like early summer before it gets too hot, like Afghanistan or something. But to get out of my commer zone, that would do it. That would hop over to Syria. You could us no no, no, stay completely unsafe. Yeah, just fly no no, no's no US like if I'll do USO again. Yeah, I'm talking about just go and just go and to be like here I am wrapped in an American flag with a kid rock t shirt on. He's like, what a baby, USA, big target my therapists,

getting my comfort zone. There's no less it hopping in the Middle East. The big old American flag takes all the comfort right out of it. Yeah, walking the desert. You're right, I really appreciate it. You're coming by the house. Thank you for letting me do this. This is I'm sorry we had to move to You know what what here's the thing. It wasn't a problem. You had a bluebird deal, right if you had committed to Yeah, surprised bluebird. No, I have embarrassed some an older gentleman in our in

our church. He texted me on you know that Monday night, Hey, thinking about trying to get into your Wednesday show at the Bluebird. And I thought, oh, darn it, he's not reading the calendar, you know, he's older. And I look on there and there's my name. I was like, oh god, I can't hate the Blueberry. You can't hate on the Bluebird. Well, I appreciate you coming buy. Thank you for letting me bet a cool you got a cool story? Anything you need to let me know that. I try to write

something you like. Write me something I like? All right, just something you like? Yeah, write me something I like? And over Barry Dean and are you on the old Insta twitters? I am yeah. They changed me. I'm now im the MR. It's why wait, why can't you be Buried Dean? Does there already? There's already Barry Dean. I was called country Paper for Oh you had a name that wasn't Bury, Yeah, and they made me buried. I asked to be just Bury Dean, but they said I had to be the Bury Dean. So now I had

the Bery Dean. I've tried to get Bobby Bones and some guy thats like eighty followers. He doesn't even tweet, does nothing, and I can't have it. And I know I can't be a squatter and just roll into town and take over the neighborhood. But still, but still, I've offered a money for it, and he won't do it. My show for a birthday President get pulled their money and offered the money for it. They won't do it.

If anyone out there, he lives in Virginia Beach too, which is the one of the markets that I meant, And I'm guessing people call him Rob probably right, but they probably Robert the way so using the Spanish name. Uh well, it's it's. It's been really good to hang out with the imagia, right, thanks for having episode ninety And like you said before we got going here, that's a lot of episodes and it's a lot you followed, Chris Templeton, I know, no fressure, no pressure. We got

a lot of subscribers. I've written with that, I've written with that guy, Timmycrocot one of our songs, but it didn't make the record. You know a lot of people have been like man, not a lot some my friends are like right with Chris back and they good all day, and the day seemed to get better. Now now the bigger he gets, the better the times were with them because back and it was like, Chris has got a

song out, we have weas to ride. Yeah, it was I wrote with a Courtyard Hounds, you know, the Dixie Chicks in the Courtyard Hounds, and without Nat, without Natal, called the Courtyard Hounds, and we're writing. And the next day they say, hey, we're getting the right with this guy tomorrow. Chris Stapleton is before he had obviously become the Chris Stapleton and I was like, oh my gosh,

she was just in here the other day. He is and I listed more again and how amazing she is, how amazing he is, everything about him, And I said, also, I don't know if you know that, but he sings. It's so loud, but it's so controlled, but it's powerful. He was upstairs with Luke last week and no thing else in the building. You know, we didn't mind because it was amazing, but you know, he was singing it. The next day I run into him at lunch and Chris goes, hey, man, uh, they told me you said,

I sing really loud. That's the only part. Give an hour of why he's amazing, And all they told him was, yeah, Berry, since you sing really luve that was great, Okay, we're out. PC Barry tell him, I said hello, cool to I tell you all right, We'll see you next time. Everybody I've said night,