#70 - Zach Crowell - Wrote “Body Like A Backroad” and plays back isolated tracks.

Zack has been involved in. For example, church bill that okay, I know, yeah, yeah, Like I don't know dirty laundry from carry Out. That's exactly heartbeat from carry You would think just that would be a big deal. I could be like you do. But now why you're the coolest guy in town is that you're in the Sam camp.

You actually create. You've built the same camp with Sam. Yeah, and so body like a back road George break up in a small town cop car, Yeah, we got dollar, we have it all version, Yeah, house party, lead the night on. Well, I didn't write that one, let's be fair, but I was about to say we'll get lawsuits. You didn't let me even finish the clip. You didn't write

that one, but you did produce that. So so all I'm saying is there's even more, even like middle of a memory, in the middle of that, I want people to know, like you're so into this and all may people have know yet, like this is like you're coming out party. It's like your Keithanira. It's like it's Keithanira. What's that called? What it's? Uh, do you know what that is? That? But you grew up in Tennessee, so

that's more of a Hispanic Mexican thing. So when you turn thirteen or so fifteen, Okay, so I don't even know. My wife would probably know. She's a Texas girl, So I bet I bet her and her family have to have a clue about that. Let's start with I guess, just kind of your story, because for me it's interesting.

But because like a lot of us now, you grew up and you have all these musical influences, you don't just go I have a fiddle and a banjo and I'm gonna make country music, which is how normal people are nowadays. Even the most that the weird thing for me is I have a lot of friends or artists, and you know, they have to go they got the radio that they did. They love country music. They're almost not allowed to say how influenced they are by other

genres because it's a bad word. It's like a bad But you have been making beats since you're a kid, right, Well, I didn't start music until after high school. Um. I was always a sports kid and uh so I didn't touch music till after high school. I was a music kid. I was the music guy of the group of friends. I was the DJ of the group of friends. And I always made mixed tapes for my friends and sold them to him. And so I was the music nut of the friends and always wanted to be in a

music business. But I had no clue, you know, of how to do it everything. But so after high school, I I that's when I bought a drum machine, and you know, wanted to be manny fresh most people don't you wanted to make bets. I wanted to make beats. I wanted to you know, I grew up on you know, nineties R and B and hip hop stuff, so I wanted to be Dr Dre and I wanted to be master p as you want to be a rapper. I always just love the music. I loved the beats. I

loved the the energy, the emotion of urban music. I don't know why, I just always attracted me. Did you have a time where you would take the beats? Because that friends that did this and they would just make beats and sell them. Yeah, I did it for a living for I mean a small living for five to ten years. So you make the beats? Did you make the beats? And then also in certain courses, yeah, you're

guessing the whole thing. It started off I'd make beats and uh with some buddies, and then eventually I would make moan and sell them to them, and eventually I would write hook on them and sell them whole choruses for a hundred dollars, thousand dollars, whatever in the world I could do to make a living. And uh, that led to writing whole songs by myself, and then that led to co writing with other people. And you know, this is a fifteen year fast forward. Where did you

think your career would be there? If you're twenty one years old, you're you've been making me for a couple of years, and where did you think you where did you think that was gonna lead you're so you don't know, you're so dumb in naive at the time, you just you know, I just knew I wanted to continue making music. That I guess that was a goal, was to keep doing it and whatever, uh in whatever capacity. And you know, because I had, you know, various jobs and toured with people.

Was a tour manager for a guy, and worked for I worked for Kenney Chesney. I was one of his sponsorship manager guys out there doing that. And those are just you know, little things that I worked at a music company on music row, and I worked at a sports store and cool Spring. You know, so I had all those little things. But I just I wanted to do music in some way, you know, in any sort of way. But you know, so, but God's timing is you know, correct. But you know, it took a long

time to get it going. But I'm glad it, did, you know, because the I wanted to be the hip hop guy. I'm born and raised in Nashville. I wanted to be the hip hop guy, and it never worked out in that way. But I love country music and have been around country music my whole life. Whatever, I decided to kind of put the two together you know, I'd had ten or fifteen years and making urban pop music, and at that point I started to write country songs.

And that coincidental time the genre kind of collided with urban music, and I was doing it authentically. It's what I naturally do, so it it was it was once I started doing the doors opened quicker um because I was kind of a rookie with fifteen years of experience, you know, when I kind of show up in the

Nashville songwriting community. I had been doing it forever and I was professional, but I was still new and and uh and I was taking what I had been doing and all the uh rap music and urban stuff I had grown up on and all the country stuff I've grown up on. It you combine them in, you know, started working. It's interesting because you came in and I love that you did this, and I wanted to start. Let's go backwards. So you have a laptop in here, and this is the first time anyone's done this since

you do right and produce. So what you have on your laptop is a body like a back road, and so do you want to pick that up? So what this is gonna be cool because you can actually break down this song and so, I mean, everybody, this song is a monster. So this is the song that the version you would here on the radio download. So what do you have on your laptop? And there are lots of little little what they go wave files, like little jiggly lines. Keep talking. I'm gonna arm some tracks real quick.

Keep talking. And so there are all these different lines and they'll be like a vocal here, a drum here, an instrument here, and so you have all of these that you can separate, right, So take me to the room. When you guys decided to do this song, this song, it was Sam and I, you know, whenever it was We're at my house and we're just sitting there one

night writing. Sam and I spent hours and hours and hours and in my room or in my studio just talking and about you know, life and songs and whatever, and you know, just being our heads against the wall trying to come up with something good. And one night he grabbed the guitar electric guitar. That's him playing the electric guitar on that on by like a back road, and uh, he just grabbed it and started singing, and he talked about he had this idea of this song

called by like a background. He kind of sang me the gist of that chorus, and you know, of course I loved it and it was amazing. Sam's beyond talented and uh uh at that, you know, At that point with he and I were like, let's just make a basic little sketch of the song, you know, just a little play some guitar and I'll program a little drum thing.

Let's just record a little verse chorus thing, just to see how it feels, you know, because Sam and I when we write and right with other people that you know, takes days and days and months. Like he's been a very very long time on his songs. He cares about him a lot. Is simple as this song appears, you know, it's uh crafted song. It's a very intentional song and uh but yeah, so it just starts out with us in a room just doing the basic framework. I guess,

so what are you gonna play me? First? I don't know what should I do? So what we're mirroring here the final parts of the final this is the final mix. Now it's on my laptop. Who knows what files I'm missing and all that sort of unprofessional stuff. But I mixed this song myself, so you know, I did the the whole thing, so hopefully I have you know, whatever little tricks. Um of course in my computer, you're going to freak out. So that bump bump, bump, bump up.

What is that right there? That is it's funny. That is a sound. It's four yeah, four guitar sounds. Let me see that sound. That sound, it's that sound. And the main one is this thing right here. I don't want to give away the whole site. There's some little trickery going all right there. There's a whole bunch of plug ins, which is basically just effects and little trick things. This is what it actually is, just by itself, and

that's actually me. That's Sam's guitar player, Josh Burquett Bert He that's him playing guitar and me next to him singing into the microphone at the same time. Going back that so that and then I put all the little gizmos on. It's like Peter Frampton almost like, but then I put all these proprietary ideas on it. But it turned into you know, definable, you know. So that's your voice and with the guitar there's something about recording it.

And then you know, like I said, all these little plug ins that I don't want to hit that age hit. So how would you do that with your mouth? If you turn it off like that? Would just do it now like you would? You know? It's him playing it right at the thing and me next to him going back the bed. The that lick the word that lick came from on that song. See if they find it here without a in the outro of this song, it should be more prepared. There's me's this vote coder. I'm

actually if I know you can't see the home. He's got this computer program pulled up and it's got like a million tracks on it. Yeah, forgive me for trying to find this one thing. Yeah, here it is on the outro of the song. You hear you hear this in the background, that's meaing phone planet what it's a keyboard with a microphone on it. I'm playing the notes with a keyboard while singing the words. So that's you singing.

That's that. And then later on the song, I started one night saying when I was sitting around working and I started playing I started playing this singing that, which that turned into Sam was like, hey, that's cool melody. Maybe that you know what if that was the the riff of the song, you know, the hook of the song. So we ended up doing what are you saying? Are you saying are you in the lick or the vocoder? In the vocoder? I was saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

that's crazy man, that's awesome. I wouldn't hear it broken down. It's funny. I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm doing. I didn't think this song should have a lick. I didn't think it should have this. I'm an idiot. Sam for months was going, hey, I think the song should have a lick, and I thought it should just be this hold on incredibly wrong. Uh, And he was like, you know, he was adamant about it should have a lick.

Thank goodness, he's way smarter than me, because you know, without this thing right here, to me, that's the song. I'm glad he was forced me to put a lick in there, because I was incredibly wrong saying it shouldn't be in there. So when you start to lay the vocals down, can you isolate vocals in that? So? Is there is there a main Sam and is there Sam doing with Sam? Or yeah, there's a there's a whole bunch we always who you know, holler and you know,

make a bunch of noise. I'm not a big Engineers would probably get mad at me because you know, I'm not a big Like I have a TV on in the room when we're recording, and most of the stuff he's just holding a microphone, which you know usually want to mount it and have it all proper. And you know there's something about noise and chaos and and uh, you know, just I guess the word is unprofessional engineering. That makes it sounds it sounds like it fits this. It fits a lot of Sam's music and the stuff

we do. Sid got here right there, listen to side. The noise coming behind got brazen. Their first time I've seen a walk by by fellow. I had to get her number, like six weeks now me and her go way back, like yeah, so just I mean, you know, if you're not an engineer, may not notice all the noise in there, but you know we're down here hollering stuff. It's just it's in the room. So that's happening a round town. It makes it alive to me and Uh, it's real. You can hear it on a lot of

his songs. I mean there's Leave an Eye on specifically, there's just noise in the background, but it you know, it works for his music. Some songs, you you know, uh, take your time song, you don't need to be holler and in the back of that song, it's a more intimate thing. And but this song, it's such a loose song. You know, imperfections are are I think a good thing on this one. You hear that track again. Snaps or clasps, those are it's a couple of things. It's a snap.

It has this thing and it's it's just a little just a little who knows that's the name that doesn't even need to be there. But in the chorus it does other stuff, you know. At other sounds are those anyone snaps? No, those are just some random sounds I found on the internet at some point, you know, years ago.

Writers and producers, we have a good jillion sounds and and an absurd amount of uh you know, yeah, that's just one of the what about that song almost didn't make it on the song you said to the leg But what it was like at last minute, like Okay, we should put this on it, but really defines it. Uh that this was it's funny everything you're pointing out or things Sam did, maybe my I don't need to

be in the room. Well, we were almost done. He suggested to seem my computer forgive me if my computer like pauses and he did this almost that little tag right there, if I'm gonna take you slow. That wasn't That was a eleventh hour. He was like, hey, I think that last course should hold for a little bit, so I'm gonna take it slow, which to me, I couldn't imagine the song without that part. That's such a such a good payoff. And he suggested it again. I did not and uh, but as soon as we did it,

we just you know, it felt right. What about the huh huh? Who is that You're pointing out everything? That's not my idea? This was all backfiring. No, it's funny. I Uh. I was recording some stuff on this and I was doing that percussive part let me find it body. I was doing that that's been on like every rap song over the past few years. I mean, it's just

it's that sound. But I was doing that specific part with a tambourine, is what I was doing in Joshua Sale, Sam's drummer, said hey, you should use that DJ Mustard hey thing, and I was like, it's great, and uh so I put it up. These are hosts all backfiring. I wish I could say this was all mightia but just but it's awesome in there? Is that Sam say in his own harmonies? Uh? Some yes, some know a lot of it's probably Josh Osborne, who we wrote this

song with, who's super duper talented and uh traveling. H I think Josh or Sam ended up seeing a few later on because Josh wasn't there. Oh yeah, right here where we added that part if the and I'm gonna take it slow fast as I can. I'm sick it slow. So Sam just did that part because we added that. Like I said in the eleventh Hour, Dan, it's so broken down. That's that's crazy. You brought all that. I appreciate that. I think people will hear that song now

and appreciate how layered the simplicity is. It's crazy how hard it is to this song was a task to do. To me, It's funny because I and I talked about that you can you can fold it now. Um. I talked about that song as an example of the day it came out, a lot of people were like, what the heck is this? I was like, guys, you're gonna be wrong, Like, you're gonna be wrong, Like, first of all,

look at the body of work that's been produced before this. Secondly, I don't ever hear a song for the first time and like it ever, because I'm just not conditioned to hear something new. That's why people don't new music has not loved it first. It takes time. And now it's the biggest song. First of all, it's you be the biggest song of the year. Um. Secondly, it's the only song since I've been in Nashville and almost five years now that it's start the crossing over and it's it's

not there yet but it's but it is going. It's the first song to even go there. And it's almost impossible for men to cross over. It's always women except for Rascal Flats, and they kind of sound like women. Absolutely necessarily because Carrie did it, Taylor did it, Leanne Rhymes did it. If You Lady, Annabellum did it, and that was a female driven song, you know whenever, So for saying it's for so many reasons, it's weird that

Sam's doing it, and it's awesome. It's great, I mean, and it's funny like Sam's not out there peddling the song and hustling the song to to be a cross over. You know, Sam's a just let's see what happens kind of thing. Like you know, so Sam less country music and and wants to be a country artist and is happy where he is. So he's not you know, he's definitely not out there begging for crossover spins. But also

like that Sam doesn't care. Like that's what I like about on the most, it's like Sam does Sam, and that's it. He's very happy and content just being at home with his wife and relaxing. It's it's you know, he's the sweetest. It's he's totally genuine, and it's he's not after money or fame or praise at all. He

just he's a songwriter. If you boil it all down, he's a songwriter, um, and he just wants to continue writing songs and and uh if he if he records them, that's you know, you know, he's like I said, it's a songwriter at the end of the day. And and uh yeah, let me talking about Express Prose for once second. So the average number of people who apply for any given job is one hundred and eighteen. Think about that.

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stuff Sam stuff in a little bit. But you know that song I like, now, I was talking about this morning on the air the New Dustin. This is a really good song. That song. I didn't write that song. I typically produce stuff I write, but it's produced so cool. Thank you. This is when Dustin sent it to me. Just some buddies with Dustin and he uh, It's like, hey, what do you think about this song? You know? I was like, dude, I love it. I was like, I'm about to be arrogant. I was like, but I think

I should produce that song. I was like, I don't think anyone. I was like, that's kind of what I naturally do. It has a little bit of an urban field. It's you know, as an R and B tendant season. I was like, you know, I kind of asked for that job. Turned out it's turned out really cool. I'm my favorite baseline on. I'm very proud of the synth base I played on that for all the keyboard nerds out there, very proud of it. How about this from dustin you a side of these felt that it's awesome?

Another blessing? Tell me about this song? I wrote that with Adam Sanders and Jared Boyer, and uh, that was what not to not sound? It's it was a typical national day to three days in a room making up a song. Did you know those two guys already? I had, Yes, I can't. It was. It was the only time we've ever written together. But I can't remember if I've written with him any time. It was early on if it

wasn't the first, and but it was great. Got quite a few dust and track and even involved into where that's my first number one song right here, So it was that's that one's still get materialized, big deals. That's your first metal huh, first one. See that's the thing too, that's how quickly you've done all this body of work has been that quick because that song hasn't been out very long, a few years years. But I think it comes from me spending fifteen years making terrible urban music.

So when I get the opportunity to this kind of stuff. You know, it caught up pretty quick. But you know, I got in the room with great writers. And that's not even like just being nice to be nice, but it's like I was able to get into the big leagues with the cool guys. And when you're around talented players, you're you're statistically gonna win, you know, you know hopefully, and uh, you Kevin duranted it. You're really good, but you went to a team that was already really freaking good.

I've had, you know, my publishers and people who signed me and the people who've been around me, uh, have fought really hard early on to give me the rooms to you know, give me the opportunity to prove myself. And you know, in the past year and a half, have you just made so much money, like it more than past year and happened the rest of your life combined? Sure, man, I got just looking at it. I'm just looking at this here, and I'm like, but like five years ago,

I was making fifteen thousand dollars a year. Like literally, I'm not saying you've been rich. I'm saying the last year and a half it had to be like get a very good thing. I have a wife and two kids, and uh, my wife should stay at my mom you know, praised Jesus for that, because that's amazing that, you know, I've worked. I have a studio at my house. I'm down there writing with friends of mine, and my wife and kids are upstairs. I got here on my see

them all day. It's it's literally the dream, you know. I couldn't and to be you know paid, you know, money is also being paid, money being paid money is not all right, zacch let me, let's try this one. And they one it was a good day. That was I wrote that with Ashley Gorley and uh Cole Swindele and uh, that was one. We were actually writing another song that day. We were writing a song called Kiss that he actually ended up putting on a EP of

his But we're writing that song. And then in the middle of the second verse, given a full story, I left the room. Everything awesome happens when I leave. Sam has the ideas I left the room, I come back in and they had written to say converse and it had a line in it said in the middle of a melody, and I go, hey, I like that line. Misunderstood him said, Hey, I like that line right there

in the middle of a memory line. And when I said when I misheard them, Ashley and Cole kind of looked at each other and had the kind of the aha moment they go middle of a memory. So that's they paused the song. We were working on the kiss song and we stopped wrote this middle of a memory. How quick did that fall out? Since it was kind of one of those just a few hours Ashley and Cole is you know, a hit separate of his being a country star. He's a hit songwriter and fully capable,

you know everybody, so it came out quickly. Teammates, man, do you have good people in the room? Good teammates man? Let me ask you a question and I don't know the answer to this, and this is one of those and you may just stay away from it because you're close to it. So first let's talk about Sam a cop car and then Urban Got This is what I remember my head Urban Got It played it on an award show and say I tweeted something about this song. It's Sam not want that song to go away? Did

want to keep it? Sam wanted to keep the song for himself. That makes sense, which I totally get. But who does that? Who gives it away his publisher At the end of the day, at that time, we're all new writers, young writers, and we're involved in publishing deals that at that time we technically don't have the rights to those songs, where the writers technically we don't have the rights. And even though you say I want to keep it, they have the rights and they say no, no,

we're going to give it. And it only it only takes if you know, three people in real it just takes one of the one of the people to say he can have it, you know what. Yeah, but it's I mean that song changed my life and that was that. I'm taking it. You aren't the one. What did that said? Somebody else can have it? No? I wanted Keith to I mean I produced it on Keip. I was all for it. I was, you know, So why so with Sam up said, I don't remember, just wanted to keep

the song for himself. It's his song, it's his story that happened to him. Um, that's crazy to me. You know, I told him and he and I were you know, did you guys get into it because of that? We didn't get into it so funny. It was early on, uh with he and I had known him for probably six months, but he and I have always clicked, you know, from the get go. And even though we disagreed, his

vote was for to keep the song for himself. And at that time he was an aspiring artist, you know, there was it was still I get I get it urban too, So I didn't want an established artist him. I gotta eat. I got two kids, you know. He and I'm trying to convince him, and people are trying to convince him, and and uh but Sam, you know, when he knows what he wants, he's die hard for that.

And I told him, I was like, man, we kind of left it as hey, if I because Keith had asked me to produce it, which is ridiculous and unbelievable and and such a huge opportunity. And Sam and I left it. We were totally cordial, and it actually made us closer because we were able to kind of go through and experience together, go through a disagreement together. And uh, but he you know, we left it as hey, if I get the ball, I'm gonna shoot it. If you

get the ball, you shoot it. So if it's my decision. I'm on a go produce it on Keith and take that opportunity, and you know, if it comes down to beat Sam's decision. But you know, you know, thankfully it all worked out, and you know, it was a as a monster hit, and that was the song that changed everything. At that time, I'm dead, broke, my wife's pregnant, I'm literally about to lose my publishing deal, a month away from my publish deal being done, and uh so, you know,

whether you know the desperation or not, it was. It's a legit opportunity and a and a big thing. And you know, it made Sam and I closer and I admire the crap out of him for, you know, being a no name, broke guy who's still wants to hold on to a song. I was respecting for it. It's it's a you know, was it weird to produce that song? It was weird just because working with Keith. But as far as Sam, and I mean Sam was to the whole thing. He was I knew I was doing it

and I was playing inversions. That was where he was. Fully, you know, he let it go with that. He was like, okay, you know, with Keith because he I've seen Keith in studio settings just around, like nothing to do with no microphones around. A human said, his brain works on this level that I can't comprehend what's happening. He's truly, he's a true musician. I'm not a true musician. I worked my way up. He just is music, you know what I mean. Like I don't have the talent he has.

I have a work ethic, and I can study and practice and get to where I can compete. But I'm not. Some people are just Stevie wonder just is music. Is it tough for you and Keith be on the same be in the same spot. You're coming from two totally different places. He didn't. I mean that was my first thing. I was terrified through the whole process. I'm the guy who you know isn't supposed to be there, you know. So but he was great, you know, he he made

me feel confident. For him to give me to hire me to produce, you know, such a high profile song. It shows that he has faith in me and the demo. Luckily, the demo was like close anyway, so there wasn't It was already like headed in the right direction, So there wasn't. I don't think I could totally blow it. He would step in if I was ruining the song, you know, and uh, but no, he he's a professional. He you know,

encouraged me and you know, kept me motivated. I want to play some of these demos because I love that you brought these demos. So how about your first number one where it's at with Dustin. We'll go back there for a second, so we know this. Now here's the demo of the same song where you cut this? You know, just my house? Yea, who's singing it? It's Matt Jenkins. I wrote with Matt Jenkins and Carry Barlow, and so Matt Jenkins singing are It ain't in a higrass looking

for a good time, shutting damn city lacks. It ain't in the water floating like a barber soaking up that hot sunsht. It's good, very weird. It's a why doesn't a guy like that do records? Well, he had a record deal. He's a that's guy's good. He's one of my closest friends, so I can say he was a failed country music superstar. No, he was great. He had a deal on Universal or something or whatever. Yeah, he was.

So if you're producing demos though, like, that's gotta be a weird thing for you too, because you produced real songs. Like how much do you put into a demo? Because you just you stop sooner. You you spend a few hours, half a day, you know that one. Carrie Barlow, the other writer, you know, he played a lot of the guitar and we all just kind of play it ourselves and you just you just you get it. You spend enough time. You learned not to spend too much time.

I want to go to church bells, which we know from Carrie us I tell me about this song before I played the demo, that song. I'm proud of that song, proud of all of them, but that one in particular, that was the first. In the songwriting comedyy, I'm I'm labeled in the track guy category. I'm the guy who makes the music, who makes the beats. Uh. At times, I'm stereotyped into that, and some people would interpret that as I'm not the lyrical mind and uh, and I've

always struggled with that. I've always struggled with people thinking I don't write lyrics and melodies and because I do, and I you know, you know, whether they're good or bad, I don't know, but that's the first song where it was I had the title. I had the idea. Actually, remember before I wrote it, I had the title church Bells. And I was like, man, that would be a good character Wood song if you wrote it like this and

did it like this. And I called my publisher mentor, Ashley Gorley, who's a big, you know, mega writer here in town, and uh. I was talking to him and and uh It's like, hey, man, I got this idea, this song called being an idea called church Bells, and uh, be Karen, what you can do it like this? And and I was like, what do you think about that? And he was that's cool. I was like, I saw my calendar that in a month I have was writing with Hillary Lindsay and Brett James and they've written a

bunch of Carrenderwood stuff. They're kind of they're the people to write caring too what stuff. And I called ash I was like, hey, I was like, do you think it's smart of me to hold onto this idea? Don't write it with all the other people I'm writing with over the next month and save it for this one. Day coming up for Hillary and Brett. He's like, I think you should do that. It's a good idea. And I made some music and Hillary and Brett walk in the room and I play on the music and I

was like, I got this idea called church bells. I think you should be like this. And you know, at that point, I'm kind of handing it over to them. What do you like? Now? You guys do what you do, and you know, then Hillary Lindsay, who's you know written most carry Underwood songs and they, you know, they just

did their thing. But that's not I'm proud of that one because that's the first time that was that was the first time where I had ever done that where I had been the uh, the idea guy, and I was proud, was proud of that, and still I'm proud of that. Hillary Lindsay, who, by the way, it's one of the best singers and she's grew up, would like a blackfoot daisy out in the shack with the bloottick. Hewn broke it as hill but blessed with beauty the kind of a rich man can't turn them. She coughed

the eye of an oil man. Dancing with some night in the downstore jet she had. When you get into it right like that and you're going with your idea that you've been holding for a month, are you worried they're gonna be like, I don't like that, Let's go to something else. I mean, yeah, but you know, because I say, that wasn't the one idea I've ever had. I've had hundreds of Like you've targeted that date with those people? What if you do win a andy? Like?

You know, but I had this idea and you're kind of like, oh man, that's one of those you know, that just is what it is. That's that happens all the time. It's just part of the game. You know. Sometimes you get your feelings hurt, and sometimes it's you know, you know, it's usually best idea wins. And you know, I'm happy that they jumped on board dirty Laundry. Thank you? Who's singing the hymn on this one? Hillary Lindsay Again. I wrote with Hillary in actually there sick on your colo,

ain't my shade of pain? And I can tell about the smelling that perfume side forty dollars too cheap and there's a little one stain on the pocket of your white cotton thing. Will you drink being whiskey boy? And you know, don't drinkin send it over in the corner, wat it up on the bedroom floor. He should have hit it in the closet. He should have burned it, he should have lost it. That's so cool man. And Hillary is so good and that's like who can sing

with Hillary? Carry can? She's Hillary is the best? Like like, yeah, Hilly went on because Hillary and Gaga did you know together at charts? I don't see Hllary on TV singing with La. Hillary is still someone who I get nerve this to write with and nervously. She's just She's truly good. She's a true soulwriter. Billy currct Do I make you want to send me down to? Could you? Could you write this? With grog? With Ashley Gorley, Matt Jenkins and

Jerry Flowers. Jerry Flowers is a writer plays bass with Keith Urban. Yeah, Sam stuff together and yeah, so here's do I make you wanted that? Who's singing the demo Ashley? Which is funny typically not the singer, but he sounds spectacular of so Ashley Gorley singing the demo? Do I make you want to excuse it? Maybe would song you mad? Will you see me pull litoping your kid? Do you

want to go downtown? Maybe have a little high a little why do you want to go out to the country and maybe blew all the money all for sugar at the truck's time and subscritch off. See if we can get lucky. Oh, I gotta know what's going on. And your beauty and baby don't be shut and see me Now? All your demo sound like legit songs. That's the weird thing. Yeah, obvious. I did a writer dun with Ashley once. It was me, Ashley de Stefano, and Lee Miller and talking about which one doesn't fit the

radio guy. Yeah, I'm up there with a guitar playing funny songs that I wrote and they're playing They're all singing number ones. They're going have you done it again? Or was that the that the unders? That's not my scene, but it was I was. They asked me to do it, and I was like, yeah, you know, I can play guitar a little bit, I can sing some dope songs, and so I'm not a big round writers round guy.

Just recently did my first one because I've always said no to woman, I'm not a singer and barely a player. I play a computer. Really well, that's my instrument, that's that's the that's my tool and uh so I'm like man, sitting on stage and singing in front of people was like a nightmare to me, and I just did it recently for the first time. You did your first one

who Are You? With Ashley, Matt and Jerry, the guys we wrote that like they're all my closest writer friends, and I was like, if I'm gonna be up there, if I'm gonna be terrified, I'm gonna pee my pants. I felt like I want to do the people who have my back if if I sucked, yeah, but it went great, Like I you know it, I realized the imperfections are the good things. And saying, you know, no one's there for me to, you know, serenade them. I'm there there there to hear the songs in the stories

and stuff. So what do you play when you do itund around like if you're doing four now, if you're doing four songs, that what will you play? You have a lot of songs. It depends on probably who I'm writing or who I'm doing it with like that one. Like I've written songs like I wrote cop Car with Matt Jenkins and Sam and Matt did cop Car that night. And I wrote house Party with Jerry Flowers, so he did house Party. So I did songs with people. I think some of the ones that I haven't the people

that weren't up there, so we weren't overlapping. I can't remember what songs that I did. A couple of Sam songs and uh, I think he did a carry song and didn't the middle of remember that Coldsmindale song. He did a carry song. He sing car, No, did Heartbeat? I did that one. I did the easiest one to sing. I mean, I don't know. Maybe they were easy to sing that. I was shocked because I'm not a singer.

When I was sitting there, you know, on my couch for months trying to practice like a nerd, I was trying to learn church bills and I'm trying to learn dirty laundry, and I feel like an idiot. I never realized how hard they were to sing, and I physically just can't get to those high notes. And so I said, this is the less range e of songs. So you picked that one day, like literally out of out of insecurity. Here's that who's singing the demo? Here, Carrie? I wrote

this army with Carrion. Actually, so she sang the demo. You know, when she's singing the demo, it's probably not big because it's the same in her vocal spectacular party in a downtown crowd. But I can't hear you call me baby with the music times, isn't she I've compared to an alien before because I've been looking enough to sing with her, like do a duet with her and sing on stage at the rhyme Wasna and it was just like she opens her mouth and it's like that

shouldn't come out of that. God loves her a little more than me, And yeah, that's that's not a lot a lot more. No, she's just in that camp like when they, you know, asked me to be around and write with her and produce with her like that, you know, to come up with Sam is one thing. We were no name dudes together. He's and we're in the same class of people and you know, refreshment together. Carrie. You know, she's royalty, she's you know, not even just sucking up

to her, she's, you know, the queen. And so when they asked me to write with her and produce some songs that you know, it was you know, freaking out, like her manager and able Boot called me and she's like, hey, would you if you know, would you want to produce heartbeat precaring. I'm like, you know, yes, like she could yell at me and tell me to do it, you know, but they're asking politely, would you be interested in like, you know, crying on the other you know, of course,

you know. I did this you know, dope song with her, and she came in the studio and sing it with me, and I just watched her and again i'd sing with her live. But then I watched her going to a studio where everything's amplified, like all your perfections are amplified because you're hearing it. There was nothing imperfect. She did

like three takes. She's like, let me do again. I was like, no, you're She's a truly good singer, like she's on earth too, singing to us like it's it's her and she's like one ft tall and somehow that strength comes out. Yes, it's crazy. She had to Blue Apron. Let me talk about Blue Apron for second. So Blue

Apron man. First of all, the mills are great, and it's convenient because it come right to your house, and it's COMMUNI could have a like an instruction guy, basically a card that tells you how to make them, and it's affordable. Blue Apron with less than ten dollars per person per mill. Blue Apron deliverers. First of all, the dress fees that I don't even know exist unless I went to a restaurant looked am in you. But it's

basically like you're getting that at your house. Preportioned ingredients. You make these delicious meals at home, cooked whenever you're ready. So sitting there, it's like here it is, you go, I think I want to Blue Apron tonight. You make the one. You can choose a few of them, Choose a variety of new recipes every week, let them deliver them right to you. You can customize based on your your preferences. They have several delivery options. You can choose

what fits your needs. Each meal comes with that recipe. Car I'm telling you step by step. This week's when you check it out and get your first three meals for free with free shipping. If you go to Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast, you'll love I get a fields and taste Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast. You go to the Bobby Cast to the mills, Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast. Okay, so let's say, man, I have so much well if I played this here, Zach wait, talk about this. This is one. This is

I sold a beacon. I had that hook like I sold that course. I feel Jelly roll seven days. Jelly says, you're doing the hook. Yeah, right, so you made that, dude. I'm like to the death end. But that song sounds good like I love hip hop, and I even I had a record deal. I hip hop Baraka for one. I've heard you say that I've never heard of Captain Collucasians. I haven't. We've been thinking about it. It was it silly or was it like? It was it? No, it's

my name was Captain Caucasian. It was silly, but I try it a little bit, but not really afraid to commit. There's another commitment thing. It's another commitment thing because I don't want people to not really wasn't that good, But I was just good enough to fake it. So yeah, so we were making it. We may beat that. That should be a passion project. You make you get make Captain Caucasian a hit that that way, you know you made it in town. Okay, here we go. This is

you about to make a killing. Put it never feels fulfilling. So they called it's a big one. He's a Christian rapper, right, Huh, that's the That was the first legitimate thing. That's a rapper, lacraz. That's the first legit thing I ever did. And I want to Grammy for that. What did you do? I wrote? My buddy, might I call him Mike Valentine's name is Michael Jefferson, the guy singing that chorus right there. He was a writer out in l A that I knew when we wrote that. And we wrote that song in

his apartment in l A somewhere. I couldn't tell you where the apartment is, but we wrote that. We had a whole version, whole chorus, the whole song, and we wrote it one night and myke Valentine sent it to La Craze A and R person and uh, they loved it and loved the chorus. And I sent him the pro tools file and that's about it. And he laid it down and lay it down apparently want a Grammy. It was. It was a huge opportunity, but it was

a lot of email. What we were in the you know, a lot of i'll Cindia files and you know, it's not like we're in a room vibe being out together kind of thing. Music. When you hear it back the first time, are you like, Okay, that's good. I like it. Kind of weird because you weren't together. No, I love it like Locraiz is huge. You know, it's a huge Christian rapper. And uh so when he was, you know, taking it, I knew it was in good hands, you know, trusted.

How about so I'm coming. That was my first single on a big act right there, because my first first country song of it might ever heard on the radio? Yeah, the first song you ever heard of the radio, Scott mccury. It was the first country song. I had plenty of other for a country song. I mean, Scott's country isn't good.

I was laying on my couch. My publisher, Kimmy Flynn called me to turn on the radio and I ran to the bathroom where we had a little radio and uh turn it on and stood in the bathroom and listen to the sky. Do you're making money off that song? Yeah? Okay, so you made you make good money off the levels are money check wise, you see a significant difference in ten and five? Uh? Yeah, do you see a significant difference in three and one? I don't think it's about

the same at that point. It depends on how long it stays at three. If it's a three for a day and then dies, you know, but if it's at three for a couple of weeks, it's you know, it's these are all they're all good problems. Have you made more off body like a background not than any other song? Because you may not have yet because the song hasn't been out that long yet. Okay, it takes takes one. They say it takes about nine months for I can't wait for those checks that are coming in. Are you

kidding me? They say it's the first one that people always say, they say, it's the last nine months of poverty. Uh, you know, because you'll have a hit song on the radio, but you're dead broke, you know, just because you're waiting for the you know, the money to go between you. So that check hasn't come yet, no, but man, that's gonna be there. So it is the first one. It's the first one small though, because it eases its way up.

It's kind of relative to where the chart is. And you can if you looked at it on like a graph or something, a pie chart or something that you would you see it kind of peeking and you know, because obviously you make more the more times it's played and does it. It's streaming irritate the crap out of you because you're not making money. And I love it like like I love it, Like sure, we don't make a ton of money yet, but there's no way that we don't. Who knows. I might be long gone by

the time it comes around. But they're gonna figure out. They're gonna have to figure it out. They have they have to figure it out because I make decent money as a producer on the So there, there's there's money. It's going to get figured out. I'm honestly not worried about it. Luckily, there's still plenty of money to be made off of radio and sales. There's still money. It's not like streaming is the only source of income. At this point it will eventually probably be the only source

of income. But right now, how luckily we're still all doing well. Jesse Alexander was in and she was talking about how she makes more money from singing backup streaming than the songs she wrote, because she has a better deal.

There's a better deal for the people that are singing I mean literally off of by like a back road, and it's probably streaming the you know, hundred million times, you know, you know, hundreds of millions of times, and you will make a thousand dollars or something, which is crazy, and it will fix itself because it will have to fix it. So I think it's so ridiculous, Like there's no one who who you can't make the argument for.

You know, so at some point whenever whoever is in charge of that stuff, See, here's someone agreed to it. At some point, someone signed some sort of thing at some point saying it's a big deal if only seven people are doing it, like it's not. Someone agreed to it, So you know, slap that guy and and uh, but you know it'll get figured out. There's people, you know, Lee Miller here in town, who's his life is devoted to that now and and I'm grateful that he's doing that.

You know, which one of these samslungs fell out the quickest. It was kind of like because you know you're talking about you know, with Sammy, he spends a lot of time the same thing. Sam is slow. He slow, he cares like it's not like a because he's dumb. He he he puts the puzzle on the table and he tries every single piece in the one. So he tries every rhyme if you're trying to rhyd chair. He tried rise every single thing just to see in what emotions

it feels. And Sam's very intelligent and you know, he's always thinking, always referred to it. He goes way deeper in the cave than I do. Like I go a hundred feet in the cave, and he goes five miles into the cave and he's down there just you know, exploring the songs there. So it you know, takes him a while. When you go that far, it's gonna take you a while to get in and out of it, you know. But so that I would say house party was the absolutely the quickest it took. That was just

a couple of day right, and the sam world. That's a couple of day right, Well, break that box out up. The first single was Late the Night on right. When that comes out, are you like, okay, we might have something here. Yeah, it's funny as soon as because we pretty much had that record done before he had a record deal. We pretty much just made it on our own. So we went into the label kind of saying, hey, we had a week. That label has been really good to us. Man. They we came in with a plan

and they let us do that plan. And so we come in with a record and we're thinking we should put out this and we should put this in this order. As crazy as some of the songs have been, they've let us do it and they just you know, yeah, yeah,

they It's kind of the dream scenario. Like I literally can't think of one time where we wanted to do something and we're adamant about it and they said no. That you know, they've embraced us because they know that we're trying really hard and that you know it's every move is intentional, and uh that we care. So it's been good. So here's one of your singles. This is Lindsay l Shut Me Up. Give me that demo. That's when I wrote with Hillary Lindsay and Brett jameson people

wrote church bills. It sounds great. Yeah, I just moved her town. I don't even know her. Hell yeah, I didn't know Lindsay at this point. I've met her around this. She's super duper sweet man. She's she's that I can't agree with now. At the time, I had no idea. I had wrote a few songs on her, and she's great, Like, she's you know, she's super duper talented, ma'am. She's you know,

she keeps plugging away if she wouldn't. These relationships in trouble. Dude, I love you got I'm got the punch seven seven days on a week. I've been looking forward from me. I'm just trying to find a list somehere I can think, even trip and keep a secret. Baby's good. He's doing great, don't you know? He's around town? Like surprised, you don't know. I don't know anybody. I don't know. I don't use the word literally. I literally know so many fewer people

that I'm thinking. People think I know because I just stay at my house and I go on the road. General, someone you should know. His stuff is getting bigger and bigger and bigger every day, and and uh yeah, he's someone you should you should know. He's really good. Who's camp? Okay, you have to what whose camps are you in? Everybody's in camp? You in the Dustin camp? Would you say? Absolutely? Are you in the carry camp? I get so nervous

even say that. I think so, yeah, yeah, you're in the sad camp because you guys have been together forever. What any other camps? Uh? Where It's like we're starting new project. We gotta get all hands on deck. Who would call you and say, hey, Dustin asked me for my opinion? And you know, Sam, you know of course. And I think other people who like asked me. I mean, Nashville such a small community. We all right together. I'm cold and I've been texting all day, did cold cold

and stuff? I'm not in his We write together, but he's not like asking me what tours he should go on and stuff. But he's some you know, he's I would consider him a friend. You're right today, I did not write today. I had meetings today. What kind of meetings do you have? Like? What are they about? Had a meeting? How to spend your new boat money cheap man. I was broke for way too long, so so every time I make goes to securing my future. I don't. I drive a two thousand twelve cameras, so I'm not

I'm not a blow in cash kind of dude. But what means that I had a meeting with that I'm putting on a charity event. It's gonna be awesome. And U H had a meeting with my business people about money, like what to do with all of it? Do you want the pink boat? Let's think about I think pink in the green one such I mean, when you're broke for so long. I'm a thirty six. I didn't start making any at struck money until I mean four years ago.

I mean I was, you know, two broke. It feels like because listen, you're talking about something else you grew up broke. It always feels I can go away. Just see. I'm scared of that, just like that. It's scared. I overpaid my bills forever because I was scared if I got fired. I would just want to just talk to my business manager. They're they're paying extra a mortgages just

to do it. You know, just because this is all impossible, This is all climbing a huge mountain, you know, and to expect to do it again is a little ridiculous, you know. So you know it's a huge blessing. But I'm definitely I'm definitely that guy who's like, it's my bad man. I had a good run with by, like a background with Sam. I'm talking about, dude, iver gonna beat that. One thing is you're probably not, No, That's

what see. I come down to the logic. I'm like, statistically touch that just playing the stats here, ted waves like a bad one time was a great hit or many years after that exactly so, but that's what you know, that's the I was broke for a long time, you know, but anymore anymore. I'm proud of that. I'm proud of it, but I'm proud of for me and I had nothing to do with it. It's such a silly song. Isn't working so well? I don't think it's a silly song.

I think it's a it's a song. Here's the thing about Sam, as someone who doesn't I don't write with Sam, so I felt like I talked about it from Outsider perspective of his lyrics. Sam talks like an like a human talk, and sometimes it's awkward, but that's why it cuts through. He says things like blah blah or whatever. He says that, you know, and you're like, what, oh that that sounds abnormal in a song, But then all of a sudden, you're like, but that's how I talk.

He's singing songs that, yeah, he would actually say, these are roll and that's why that thing works, and that's why his songs. If I have anything to think of why Sam and I work well together, it's we probably spend more time talking in my studio, just on the couch, just talking to each other about life and our wives and our faith, and we talk about all that stuff. So when it comes to write a song, we know how we you know how to speak. You know, we're

not just you know Sam singing. From his perspective, he's not playing a character like it's these are all honest things. These are about as silly as some of them. Maybe they're about real life things and real life emotions. Like you know, he's not just making this stuff up like it's it's coming from somewhere. What's the one I just played a bunch of this stuff. What's the one where you're like that probably I can't believe that's the one that actually blew up break Up in a small town.

I still giggle when I hear that on the radio. That's such a jam. It's pretty extreme. Yeah, that's one where I'm like, it's a little I'm like, who do we think we are to think we can play that, we can get that on the radio, because you know, we wrote that We're dead, broke, no name, dudes, just going I wonder if we can get this on it, this will be you know, and because that's pretty extreme, like like we're not over here thinking, but extreme things

make things normal. That's at the end of the day. That song specifically is what I like to do with Salmon. I like to do. It has a whole bunch of elements to it. It's, you know, from the big drop to the dramatic first to the urban kind of thing. It's it's a little, uh greatest hits kind of to me. One of my best friends is friends in radio and in real life. Charlemagne the God who does a breakfast club in New York, a huge fan. So it's like

that's like one of my dudes. And so he calls me about a month or so ago when Sam had strapped, and he was like, well, you know about Sam Hunt. I was like, why, I guess he's he's gonna come on a show. And I was like, here's a good dude, like I like him, and I don't like a lot of people. I put up a lot of people, but I like Sam. He's a genuine dude, Like you have to worry about somebody coming in and being somebody else. And then he's like, yeah, we're gonna bring it. And

then he got sick on the urban world. So I keep up with the breakfast club people and have for years on the internet. I watched their shows. I don't listen to the ray, but I called Sam a couple of months ago. Hey man, I go may think I'm crazy. I was like, but I think you should go to New York and do this breakfast clup thing. I was like, it's a huge I refer to. I was like, I was like, it's kind of the Bobby Bones, but but in the urban world. I was like, it's kind of

the highest profile show. You know, when you can make the argument that Sam's music is it's extremely urban, like it's extremely uh urban music. It's you know, it's probably more urban music than it is traditional pop music. And I was like, hey, man, I was like, you know, it's typically I was like urban music, urban artists who

go in there and do that. I was like, but I was like, I think you would have a blast there, and I think they would love you, and and uh, he was aware of them, of course, and he was like, dude, we should totally do that. And he was super bummed to have to get the strap thing. That strap thing really broke his heart that he had to cancel the show and cancel a radio thing. But he uh, hopefully

he goes back there some. Yeah. I hope that too, because I wanted to hear that because Charlotte Mane takes like, hey, should we put him on? And I was like, yeah, he's a real dude. He didn't want to be not real coming into that studio because he'll just trust me because we talked about Charlotte man we go we're Charlotte because he'll just hit you with up and kind of out of the blue, and you know, you know, Sam's not trying to hide anything. You'll you know, talk about

whatever to whoever. You know. I wish it would happen. I'm sure it will at some point. Dude. It's been fun it first guests to ever bring in and break down to something like. I enjoyed that. I wonder if it would work because of our equipment, Like we were talking before, I come on, like we bought all this stuff and set it up ourselves. Nobody no radio com it. That's the problem. It's just wires, and I don't know really what these wires. You know how to do this,

like like he does. I mean, he knows what. I get on here and say the funny stuff and ask the questions, but I ask questions I literally don't know. Yeah, so yeah, I work anyway. I appreciate it. I hope, Yeah, thank you. That was fun. So anyway, as you can tell, this guy's had quite the influence on music and the radio and all this thing. I mean, jeez, man, whenever I looked at the whole list, because I didn't know.

I didn't know until we compiled it all, and I was like, holy crap, talking about someone in the last three years. It's really just been like unreal, man. It's it's a I don't take it that and beyond full for every writer or every artist, every like, because it changed my life and changing my kid's life. Like it's a and your face was on a banner the other day. I saw it for the first time. Dude, taking that photo was hard. I'm you know, I'm awkward at best,

and put I belong in a studio. So when you put a camera in front of my face and say smile, we're taking hitch, it's like, I'm just nervous, Like I don't you know, It's that I don't know what to do in my hands. Yeah, you know you should see. I should send you some of the bad ones. And now I'll pass by z that kraft. Um, I don't eed you're you're set. I don't even I don't need

to promote anything. You just set. If you see him out way back in his boat as he goes by the camera, the pink one or the green one aide seventy the Bobby cast its set. We'll see you next time. Thanks Gas,