I think Seth England had a falling out with Morgan Ballin freaked out and dropped me and a lot of other people who had stuff going on. And I also think that they realized that they didn't have the capacity within their staff to work the kind of music I was releasing.
Episode four to ninety with Maggie Rose, who's really one of the best singers in town, and she definitely chose
her own path to do it. She's always been kind of on the fringe of what is considered mainstream, and that's always what's made her so cool, kind of ahead of her time even And what's hilarious we talk about this, Well, she got a Grammy nomination, and that's not hilarious, but what happened right before the Grammy nomination, So I don't want to spoil what we talked about in this episode, but she was just nominated for Grammy for Best Americana Album, which is super cool. What was fun to me, Like
I've known Maggie for a decade. It's crazy to say that word because I've even been here for a decade. But when I first moved to town and we were touring, she was on the road with us a lot, and I didn't know some of the stories that she told from pre me moving here, Like I didn't know that she had a whole different name. Yeah, I had no idea. So Maggie Rose, I'm super happy for her. I think she had some stuff she wanted to get off her chest here as well. Yeah, I could tell us. She'd
be like, wait to talk about that stuff. Honored. She wanted to do it here with me, and she trusted me that, you know, I would walk through her with it. I you know, full transparency. Had had some talks with her about it during the process where she'd call and be like, what do you think? And I'm no expert on record labels for sure, but that even that really wasn't what I was talking to her about. It was kind of like, don't worry about other folks at all, Like do you and let all the chips fall? At
least you can be proud of that. But man, she's awesome. On January tenth, she released a cover of I Can't Make You Love Me featuring Vince Gill. I Can't Make You Love Me? Maybe I should do a cover of that with Maggie very Good featuring featuring Maggie No One Gets out Alive. That's a record. I hope you check it out. I hope you like this interview. She's expecting a baby April with her husband Austin Marshall. She has a podcast called Salute the Songbird, and she's all over
the road. And here she is on Instagram at I am Maggie Rose. Here is Maggie Rose.
A lot of labels would say like, we love what you do, we just don't know what to do with you. And I would be met with that all the time. And so I think you just got to keep making music. Well, and you know, this whole Big Loud thing, Like I talked.
To you after that happened, And do you want to say what that is before you talk about it? Do you mind talking what saying?
Well, I haven't gotten to talk about it.
Would you like to talk about it?
Yeah?
So then let's let's back up. And first of all, Big Loud is a label. Yes, it's also management. It's all. It's a thing.
But they signed you, they signed me, and like they are, you know, by all conventional standards, crushing it. They at the time that I signed with them, had Morgan Wallen and Hardy and Earnest, and they were trying to expand and I had already made No One Gets Out Alive. The record was done, it was mastered. I was probably going to just release it the way I'd released my previous two albums, which is change the whole thing.
No no, no, you say, released it as you did your last two albums.
Just independently, like with A. I have a good team of publicists and distributors, and you know, we would hire independent promotion and everything more for Triple A Radio and Americana focuses. But Nate Yetton heard this record and he was hired as an A and R, which is kind of the could be the coolest job ever. Your job is to cultivate.
Yeah, let's go find it and build it.
He His specific Fick objective with Big Loud was to broaden their musical roster to find critical acclaim Like he told me and my husband Austin, He's like, you know, we want a Grammy.
Critical acclaim by the way, artists that you're respected for having but may not be commercially as viable. But you're like, they're really good and the critics love them. But and there's a difference but they wanted something that wasn't populous. Yes type, because Morgan's killing a Harty's killing it, and people will be like, well, you got people that are making hits. They wanted a symphony. Yeah, and that's you. They wanted you.
I was totally flattered and inspired by the vision and it was surprising to me. I don't feel like I was definitely the outlier on their roster, and in terms of critical acclaim like, no, I'm not shy about saying that we've had no shortage of that the last couple of records. And that goes back to your question about you know, frustration and myself and people. It's like, yeah, that was there.
But I think credibility is another word I would use. Not to interrupt you, I just want to make sure our audience knows what's going on. I think they wanted credibility from music with depth. Yeah, not that the other guys don't have it, but they're killing it again, I use work populous in a very populous way. They want a credibility, right, Yeah.
When I think they're a young enough company that that was the right time for them to then take that step in the direction to say okay, we can do more than just have these massive streaming darlings and you know, go direct to consumer and have a hit. And I have no doubt that they love this record. Like that's not something that I negate and I appreciate their vision in it, but like it was an undeniable offer. It
was like, we're going to acquire this whole album. We made beautiful music videos, We did all this incredible artwork and packaging, you know, with Sofia Matanezade and Nikki Fletcher shooting these videos, and they talked about partnering with Polydor out of UK and just how like this was going to be, you know, an adult contemporary pop album, and they were really going to strategize on the marketing plan, like and.
They were promising and using resources, yes, and.
It wasn't like they implemented those resources in a lot of ways. And you know, I'd already waited to put this music out, so with that promise of this plan, I waited a little longer. And it came out in April of twenty four and they put billboards all over East Nashville, and we did these showcases in New York City in LA and you know, we got on like these great reviews upon the release, and then it was like radio silence, which is.
What they were looking for, by the way, to have an artist that would be reviewed wonderfully by critics. Right, this this snobby part which is important. Yeah, yeah, the people that. Yeah, so so you get ever, you get what they brought you to do. You've created something, and what you created was exactly what they had asked you to do. You went and did it all and then silent Yeah from who what do you mean? Silent?
Like from And there's a lot of people like I think Candice Watkins is amazing there. She was really engaged, and I'm not sure that she she liked me. I think was blindsided about the whole thing. But I'm out on the road. I'm on the No One Gets Out
Alive tour. I find out that like some of the digital marketing spending is comparable to like what I did on my own with one song on the previous record, And it's like all this investment leading up to the release and then it's like someone freaked out or something happened, and I can speculate, and I can only speculate because no one's called me and told me what's happened?
What happened?
I think Seth England had a falling out with Morgan Ballin and freaked out and dropped me and a lot of other people who had stuff going on. And I also think that they realized that they didn't have the capacity within their staff to work the kind of music I was releasing. So they are great with Spotify and these streaming services and all that stuff, but like the nuance that they talked about using with this music, they didn't have it. They just didn't have the stuff. And
it was three months after we put this record out. Like, it can't be based on metrics. It can't be based on analytics of how the music is performing. It hasn't even been out long enough.
So I want to speculate, and I want to be a very uneducated with my speculation. And if I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong.
Yeah, they can call me if they want to correct me. I'd happily here.
Well I know less than you because I'm not involved in this. But when you say Seth and Morgan had a falling out, my belief is Morgan did not want to be managed anymore by Big Loud, which was his label, and they have a multi if I'm right, they manage, they produce, they do it all. And to lose that money. If Morgan's like, it's devastating, devastating, because I'll just talk
about my management. My management makes RAG makes ten fifteen percent. Yeah, so think about that millions of dollars and fifteen percent of that is now gone. And again they may have had a deal where instead of the twenty five or whatever, we'll just say fifteen percent because that's what I know. That's a lot of money, Yeah, which I'm sure they are budgeting to have and to use in other places, and now they don't have it. I guess what sucks is you weren't communicated that.
No. I felt like I was. Also, they were signing up a storm, like there were so many new acts getting signed after my initial signing, and I felt like my guy Nate Gyetten, who I felt I was very close to, like he took his eye off the ball.
For sure, on you because of they were signing everyone else or because they had not figure how to make money.
You think, well, I think he was very ambitious about finding these new acts to build the roster. And you know that is his prerogative and that was his job and what he was asked to do. But there were I look back at, like my correspondence, like I was sending new songs for just starting to toss out stuff that I'd want to record for the next project, and like not really getting a lot of engagement.
What would your team sake if that happens, And it's happened a version of this has happened with me and TV Networks, Right if I become not the shiny toy, two different things. You know, they don't call back as much, they won't answer, So I'll just go to my team, like, hey, what's up. If you're doing that with your team, what are they telling you?
Well, I think we did talk to them. I had a show in May in Nashville, and you know, Austin sat down with Candace and was like, what's going on, Like we just feel like there's a lag in communication where it was full court press leading up to that, and Candace said, this record's a baby, like we're just getting started, and that immediately put us at ease, and like, I thought this was my home for a long time based on the creative freedom they had given me. How much I knew that they.
Love this record money they'd spent.
Yeah, I mean, and I've gotten all those masters back. I've gotten all those assets back. They made me whole lot.
Did you have to buy back?
No, I did, like a royalty override, which I think that's pretty telling too, that it was that I was able to reacquire all of that.
Explain a royalty override.
So basically, if they want to see any of the returns on their investment, that music has to perform well, and they get like the investment that maybe I made in the recording and a little bit of interest on top of that, but not on the videos, not on like all this other stuff. So it really is a shame. I wanted to win with them, and I ended up
submitting for the Grammys by myself. But I get to take all of those things, and I've gone to I've signed now with one Riot and Virgin Music Group, and now they get to use all that stuff that I got to make with Loud, but also with the creative director and music video director who were outsourced, who I have relationships with already.
Anyway, how did the conversation, When did the conversation happen? Where it's like, Okay, we're breaking up, because again it sounds like they were kicking they can't or they just didn't want to have that difficult conversation with.
You they didn't have it, or it was July twenty second. I had gotten back from a pretty gnarly run. It was a tough My sound guy was sick, it was the gigs were tough. And then that Monday morning, I go into Narvel Blackstock's office. Noarvel's been managing me with Austin for eight years now, and he's a pro, like he was married to Reba and he's seen it all. And I sit in his office and his eyes are so watery, and I'm just like, oh God, what is what am I about to hear? I thought I was
going to hear news. I didn't know what I was going to hear. And he just said, I've been holding this all weekend last third. I went to the office and Big Loud and I sat with Seth and Nate and we walked into the conference room kind of made small talk. We're figuring out how to work the lights.
And then after we got done talking about postmone or whatever they said, I say, so we're not moving forward with Maggie, and he said he was just in a daze, like didn't even know how to respond because it was such a quick, like abrupt cutting off of this long term plan, like it took us longer to negotiate this deal.
I feel like then I was actually with them, and I really felt and I'm not this is not my first time around the block, like I'm not so trusting of any organization, and I really do feel like I had friendships at this at this label, and we all were excited about the opportunity, and then it just was like like I even feel some part of my heart feels sympathy for Nate, even though I wish he had
communicated with me more. That like this was pulled on him quickly, and Marvelle finally said he snapped back into it and was like, well, you're gonna give her a master's back, right. They didn't even have a plan for that. So it took about six weeks to figure that out. And I still hadn't heard directly from anyone, No one talked to me.
That part, to me, is crazy.
I just that's I do not operate that way. Ghosting and all that crazy stuff is like I don't know. It's like for early twenties dating behavior. It's not how you conduct business. And I like, obviously I'm still sore about it, and I have all these great things to have ended the year with, but it's and then I found out two weeks later I was pregnant, and it was just like, you know, truly, not that that wasn't an amazing, happy piece of news, but it was definitely like an oh crap.
Yeah, So what kind of closure do you feel like? Now, I'm not gonna say neat because you don't need it, but what kind of closure would you like?
I think I've gotten it in so many ways. I love my new team.
Yeah, there's still resentment there. I'd be way worse than you. I mean I would be I'd be on fire.
Still, you know, I did get a text and I usually don't get into this kind of like conversation talking about texts and correspondence, but it is that's everything at the end of the day. Like I've worked with so many people over all these years I've been here, and not a whole lot of bridges burned because there's mutual respect. If we had gone through the process of really working this music and it just didn't work, and we had to say, like, all right, like we tried, then that
would be fine. Or if they leveled with me and said, this is happening with us, and you know, apparently there was some suggestion this has nothing to do with Maggie Da Da Da too, Norvel, but they left me open to all this speculation. I think I said this to you when I was trying to deal with like what are people thinking out there about this? They left me open to people just kind of wondering, oh, what did she do to mess that up? Because no one they
just didn't say anything. It's like, we put this record out in such a big way or what could have been a big way, and then we just weren't working together anymore. And the text I finally got in September from Nate probably instigated by the fact that other artists at Big Loud were starting to figure out. They're like, wait, what the hell happened? It was like urging him to then finally reach out. He's like, sorry, we haven't spoken since we parted ways. I just was told not to
reach out until we reached a master's agreement. Well, at that point we had reached it. A long time ago, and the implication of parting ways is so such a cop out to me because it would imply that it was mutual and that it was humane and that it was done with respect. So I guess that's the closure. It's like, let's not rewrite the narrative this was. This could have been a really devastating blow to my career,
to my will to keep doing this. And I think about other artists who were dropped from Big Loud around the same time, who, like I would I could sit down and talk to because they might be attributing so much value to that opportunity that was given to them and then have it taken away and that could be such a deterrent for them to keep making music in the future. And it's just like, there are there are repercussions for doing that to people.
Do you just wish you knew why? Like if someone that made the decision would say, all right, for real, here's the thing. Either nice, you know it's good we thought you were, yeah, or we're not making it as much much as thought we would and we couldn't afford it like that. I feel like that would be nice. Yeah, just that whatever it is, like the real answer.
Yeah, I I think I want to know what they think their reasons were. But if it were any of those reasons, I mean we're getting all the things that they wanted in terms of critical claim or validation, and then in terms of performance find financially like how premature well the move to make.
And unfair if that's what they're saying, because again they knew going into it. I assumed they knew going into it that again they wanted critical acclaim and it's not like an n Sync album. This does two million records in the first week, right with critical acclaim that takes a while, which is why that can't possibly beat it because it's not like you're expecting on week one streams to be able to you know, a ten multiply on
the investment. So yeah, I would want to know even if it was I always don't like it anymore, like I would like to know something because I think I wouldt are doubting myself.
Yeah, I mean, there was a there was a danger of that for a minute, and I mean I think I started to regain my confidence in like October, but it was also so weird because Bobby I got the Master's back and I was walking into my house and serious exem you know they do those bumpers. They're like, Hi, this is Maggie Ro's and this my song Fake Flowers, and like it was. They were playing it like every hour, and I'm busy dealing with attorneys, like just feeling like
what's going on. And the first gig that we did when I got that text, I was out at the Gorge with Dave Matthews and I just felt like it was working and finally taking hold. And then all this stuff was I was navigating behind the scenes, and luckily I have such a great partnership with Austin. I love my band. I was trying not to freak them out. There was a lot that like I couldn't tell them right away, and like I love this music and people
were showing up and things were happening. I felt like I was just not able and music row can be that way. They're like so in their own bubble that they don't see these other things that are happening around a lot of artists who just because they make music in Nashville, it doesn't mean that it's going to manifest or perform in those spaces the way they want it to, but it's happening elsewhere.
It's I go back to Irony. You canniinated for a Grammy. That is the exact reason that that label wanted a relationship.
I know, I know, I know it's weird and that's and all these award shows have their flaws, but like, that is a peer voted award.
And even if it's not, there is just credibility with a Grammy. Even if it's the shadiest worst blood diamond relate, it doesn't matter. Yeah, there is nothing more credible than a Grammy because the normal people don't know how that is, how that happens. Like, yeah, I'm a voter and used to be until a few years ago. They go into a back room. I can change the vote. Remember, Mike, we've talked about this, right, I am a Grammy voter,
and that's the most credible thing you can possibly have. Yeah, I mean, I mean I have a doctorate other than that, you know, after after my honorary doctorate. Yes, and you so you submit I know the process. I submitted to kids Record once. Yeah, and then you just wait and you obviously I'm like, I know we're not going to get nominated, but if we just submit this, maybe it's makes creates a little more awareness for the next time.
That's what I'm telling myself. In the kids category, Yeah, you submit what was best possible scenario when you submit for a Grammy.
What we got the Best Americana album?
So you thought you possibly could be nominated when you send it off.
I mean, I had to shoot my shot, and I'm I'm really involved with the Academy in Nashville, like I work with advocacy, and there's so much that I love about it that goes beyond the awards. But I was like, yeah, I need to go through this process.
And how'd you know they call you? Do you see it online? First? What happens?
I was out on a hike and did you know?
It was like, did you know they were going to nominate that day? So are you like waiting to hear if you got nominated?
I actually so. They do a broadcast a live stream, and this was on the eleventh of November, I think, and I knew that they everyone finds out at the same time, so they just announced all the people in my category on the.
Live stream and you knew the stream was happening, Yes, But I was out and watch, but you weren't watching.
Yeah, okay, and I guess because I had my my fitness setting on, I wasn't getting all the texts, but I was getting them from like those people on your your favorites list. And Austin was also not watching at the time. And then I just was like, well, I haven't heard anything, so I just didn't realize that they weren't coming through. And I reached out to him. I was like, well, you know, we tried and we can
be proud of that. And then he was getting to starstruck the office at that time, and I heard him on the phone like as the elevator doors were opening, and it was all the girls on his floor just shrieking because they had seen it like moments before we did. And yeah, it was surreal. I was like, I think we deserved it. I wasn't expecting it at all. There wasn't And I'm not just saying that to like.
I believe say it. I believe both of those statements. I believe you think you deserved it, and I believe you didn't think you're going to get it.
Yeah, because it is. It is. There's politics to it. But what I do love about the Grammys is it's not like other award shows where you have labels being like, all right, we'll vote for you if you vote for us, and all this block voting stuff like you have to be making music or in broadcasting or kind of participating in that output to be able to vote.
And you people vote for the Grammy because again, I'm a Grammy voter from all over, Right, We're here. Most of the voting's coming from like a twelve mile radius, right where a lot of people are being exposed to a lot of different things and aren't in the specific clicks and don't even know the people to trade votes with. Yeah, and I think that helps broaden the Grammys a little more than a specific Nashville Country Music award, Right.
I mean, you can get someone who's not necessarily got the best numbers who's going to qualify for that award, and you have to also vote. This is kind of new. You have to pick the categories in addition to like the Big Five, which are Album of the Year, Arts of the Year. The additional categories you have to select have to pertain somewhat to what you work within, so you're not like voting just based on nothing for artists who make music that's totally outside of what you do.
Like you don't see a name, it just click it because it looks cool. Like sometimes when voting, you're like, oh, I saw that that billboard that's sign Yeah I like the name Clint, So I'm gonna vote for Clint. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't happen anymore, which which even in my time is being a voter. I used to be like that you could vote for all the awards totally and so it didn't matter. And then I never wanted to not vote in a category, so.
I would just vote for something mm hmm exactly.
I literally would because I didn't participation. I didn't want to look like I think I was lazy. Yeah, I just click something. And so once you're nominated, like what, I don't know what happens. Does your team go, let's strike while the iron is hot. Yes.
So at that point once when I submitted, I was not signed yet to my new label with Virgin, and now I have to say, they're kind of like, holy shit, what have we stepped into? There was even you know, I just cut like six songs at the very beginning of this year to kind of start putting together the next thing. But this bought me a whole new life for this record. So with that nomination, I think they've refocused on all the life that's left and what we
can do with this music. But we we reworked some of the songs from the record, like I have a song with Vince Gill coming out on Friday that's completing like the deluxe version of this record, and I think it just sort of was like we threw this hot potato at them and we've been trying to extract as much as we can out of it.
It's also kind of funny feeling that you do this record a year ago and now it's new again.
Yeah, and some of these songs are very prophetic, Like if you listen to it, it's a lot about like what I went through this year and the themes and everything.
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
And we're back on the Bobby Cast. When you and I talked, I have to constantly like keep myself from like doing anything creative and everything being based on if people like it. What's a weird life to live. Yeah, you're giving a lot of power to something you have no control over or people you will never meet and see, and something you cannot predict. At times, I wish I were like my stepdad and he went to the mill, knew what he was doing, did his eight hours, went home,
didn't worry about anything else, didn't, wasn't neurotic. Was like at times, not mostly, but at times I'm pretty envious of the But I am and you are wired like we're wired. We have a screw loose. It happens to be a good screw at times, which is why we pursue this. But I have to constantly wind myself, and I do this if I meditate. I try to meditate,
and my mantra is nothing matters, nobody cares. Yeah, And I remember talking the most joyful way, yes, And I remember talking to you about that specifically and going, nobody cares about you in the best way because it sounds harsh.
Look at what's going on, and we're so lucky to get to do.
This, and people have spent so much of their time thinking about themselves. Yeah, I think that if I'm on a show that doesn't get picked up and I'm embarrassed and I'm like, oh my god.
This shows like the theme My takeaway from this year is what you just said.
It's I would obsess over it. I mean, like, I'm so embarrassed, how am I even going to go in front of people? You know what, Nobody cared and not that nobody cares about me, and not that nobody cares, but nobody invests so much time in thinking about what I didn't do right, and that gives me a freedom to not care either but care fully right. And so nothing matters. Nobody cares. I say that, And there's a lot of off that matters, like little things matter way
more at times than I give them credit for. But nothing Sometimes that I put all my worth and value to none of that matters.
And I know what you mean. You're not saying that in like a nihilistic way. It's like this is we're adding joy and color to the world. And I find it liberating that it's all like on a whim. If people like it or not, there's no rhyme or reason to it. And I think I I, as someone who makes music, care when I see someone else have a perceived failure and then they keep going because like that that you're out there doing it and you're taking chances
and you're daring to grow. So yeah, I mean I care in that regard, but I'm obviously watching from a different perspective.
And I care at times blindly about so many things. But the most positive, freeing thing I can tell myself is nothing matters. Nobody cares, yeah, and I should not worry about something matter. And what I mean is to other people when it comes to me, I invest so much time in thinking, oh man, this failure mattered so much that people are going to look at me different that nobody cares.
Yeah. I needed to hear that at that time too, because that was what I was so worried about. Was God, we made such a big splash about this partnership, and for me, it was I kept saying in interviews and I kind of like WinCE when I hear them again. I was like, my jaded heart grew three sizes, like this music real label actually is letting me do what
I want to do and believing in me. And then there's just aged like milk, and it's like I was just worried about people wondering how I had messed it up, and no.
One, nobody thought about that's.
Just not And it's also most likely not about me, and it sucks that I was a casualty of that. But I think you also just need to make music that or whatever it is that you do creatively that you're going to enjoy and hope that people will like it as well.
And if they don't, they're not gonna not like it for very long. Doesn't mean they're gonna like it, They're not gonna spend It's even the world of haters. I felt that world almost dissipate completely in that there are ten million things out there. It used to be when there were like four four people, and I was one of the four people, a lot of haters because I
was different, I didn't really fit anywhere. I would compare our careers they're very similar in that we've never actually belonged to a specific group that traditionally resides here.
Oh yeah, you were like, oh yeah, just a total wild card.
Didn't really belong didn't have.
Because it challenged other people to then have to get out of their box, didn't have people projecting their own worries about what it is that you're doing.
And because I felt like I never belonged anywhere, the exterior got a little rougher.
Yeah, I'm a different person than I was, you know.
And so it got so rough that it got extremely soft because I think I've experienced with yourself, with not only with myself, but with other people now that are told they're not quite like the rest, and where they feel like that's a bad thing, that'll end up being the thing. That is the way you will be successful beyond mildly successful. Right, And if your goal is to be mildly successful, there's a pattern and you can do
the I'm gonna make this type of song. You gonna have a certain amount of talent makes this type of song gonna sound this way. I'm gonna do it. Okay, you'll be monley successful, like be like everybody else. Good for you. You go and you do some shows, you'll have a five year window of a shelf life of a career as an artist, and you'll go about your way and play your hits forever and you'll be mindly successful.
That's great if that's your goal. But if it's to be like transcendent and different, you have to be different, and that's hurts and that's awkward for everybody. And it's cool to see that now happen with you, because that's all. It sucked for a while and you've been different and it's been awkward, and people are like, we don't know what to do with you.
Yeah, I didn't necessarily make it really easy for like the.
Powers that be, okay, but you were always things conditioned you to not make it easy also, Right, So I don't think you're a person that just decided I want to be difficult to work with. You're not. That's not you. But I can understand how being jerked around a bunch of times or being told that something over and over again would make you not easy to deal with, because it hasn't been easy to be dealt with, right.
Yeah, And I'm not afraid to work hard. You're not afraid to work hard, but I am not willing to do work that I feel like is a shortcut or just a compromise all the time.
Yeah, I go. I'm pure investment now, like I'm not doing I'm not investing in anything time, energy, money, who cares that that? But creatively, I'm not investing anything less. It's pure.
Yeah.
And if it's.
Because you've been around long enough, you're not going anywhere. You're gonna have to live with that credit.
It exists forever, and I've and it's okay if it doesn't work, yeah, because it's not worked a lot of times.
Well, and look at all this, I feel like there's so much music now that the one good thing I will say about TikTok is there's songs that are four years old from these Sacred Souls that's just now popping off.
It's like.
Everything you do is worth doing well because even if it lies dormant for a while. Like I know, people are now discovering this record because of the Grammy nomination, but there's songs from previous albums that people know now that they wouldn't have known, and I'm glad I made those with the best intentions.
I appreciate being scared now. Yeah, I think I was. There was an expected node to everything, and so I was always fighting and angry or trying to prove myself. And now creatively, I give you an example my comedy special right, and it's it's gonna be terrible.
Why what do you mean? I wasn't expecting sentenced that way.
I look at it, I hate it. I watch it. Oh No, But the thing is, I bet it's awesome. I've done this, is it awesome? Nobody's seen it read. I've done this enough time. I've hated every book I've written. I've hated I've hated everything I've ever done. But it's happened so many times, and most, not all, have turned into something good or something You've hated every book, Oh my god, I couldn't read them back, hated them.
I don't ride around town listening to my album.
Cringe, like, don't want it, but I don't.
It's crazy.
Yeah yeah so, but but so here's what's fun about it. I hate it. I hate my comedy. Special worked extremely hard on. It's extremely personal, and it's it's it's and it's not even pure. It's again it's awkward because it's not pure comedy. It is it's called comedically inspirational. I've not seen anything like this, and it could be. It could because it's odd, but it's it's fun to be scared, and it's fun to hate it because I have to go back to loving it while I was touring it.
I have to go back and remember that, yeah, how I felt doing it, how I felt when something would work but once it got to the edit part, or like I hated it because I was like, this is not good.
You'll fall in love with it.
Again maybe in five years, honestly, Oh my god. But the creative process is a bizarre.
Right, absolutely, Oh I I felt like I didn't. It was painful to even listen to these songs for a while when this happened, I just felt like it was a it was weaponized against me. And then I kind of had to confront it because I was in the middle of this tour. I was had to sing these songs. But that happened with Havist too, when the pandemic happened. That album was done, and then I had to wait forever and I couldn't even listen to it. It was too painful, But that was more circumstantial.
Different reasons, Yeah, but same Yeah, like the one, I avoid it right, and again, this may be a disaster for me and people may go, you're completely unfunny.
But if I don't get that's not gonna happen.
No, but it actually might. And that's okay because I'm okay with it now. And this is my point about all the crap and the nose and the it doesn't really work, or that being getting so close to landing certain TV jobs and not getting it, and that nothing matters. None of that stuff that didn't work in the past. It's not connected to me at all right now, like I've bombed hard, I've missed things hard. I've gotten so close to big things and not gotten them many many times.
It doesn't matter. But that is I'm wearing none of that today, and so if this doesn't work out, it doesn't matter.
I feel like the universe removes those things from your path if they're not right. It could have just those big opportunities could have become all consuming to you and where you would have ended up. But you also have these big partners investing in that risk with you. They have skin in the game.
But I'm not even talking about me. I'm just using this as an example of the the bizarre world of creating and needing approval from people you don't know, hoping that what you're doing resonates when you don't know feeling great about it. And then again, we have different relationships with our art, and that relationship change one hundred times
in the next fifty years. And now I'm appreciative of which is nobody cares for that because I've been able to go through crap so many times, right, and I'm able to see other people that get put in awkward situations and go, hey, it's gonna be good. That's that softness though, that's it. That's so hard that it made me soft. That's a weird thing to say right there.
I felt that so hard though, when you said that, because it does allow you to get reacquainted with it every time you need.
To, and I yeah, and have peace with it. So when you're pregnant and you sing, I feel like it that's not standard anything and everything right, like diaphragm.
Yes, you're a diaphragm. Like it has to be pretty strong.
Does it. I don't know. I don't know pregnant. You know, you don't have to tell me. I don't know the rules about asking about that. You're allowed, it's okay, but I don't even know the rules.
I'm twenty seven weeks. I'm about to start my seventh month.
Yeah, even that's tough for me because, yeah, I don't really know where that is yet.
But I also have always been the person who's like, do you really need to talk in weeks saying, And now that I'm there, it's like, oh, I get why they do it, Like when people like my baby is fourteen months, I'm like, just say a year. But there's a reason, like.
I should I should start saying he well, I am in weeks. I know when they ask, yeah, I'm thirty two thousand weeks ago.
That's not overwhelming at all.
Yeah, are you singing? Are you performing? Is it a slow adjustment? As again, pardon any ignorantly asked pregnancy question. Okay, as that grows.
You don't need to preface it.
Okay, question Well for the people, because I get messages, you ask that question appropriately. So for all the haters out there, relax when that grows and it takes up space from your tool that you're used to using it, is it different and is a slow gradual change?
I think because I just haven't stopped performing, it's not as perceptible to me. Yeah, But like I just cut six songs right at the beginning of the year so that I would have some songs in the can before it gets to the point where you know I'm not gonna want to do it And.
Can you go hard?
Now?
Can you sing hard? Still? Yes?
Yeah, I'm doing Jimmy Kimmel.
Next week's congratulations.
So that's going to be probably one of the last big performances, and then we do performing a couple of things around the Grammys and then we'll peace out for maternity leave for a little bit.
Ironny, you get don it for a Grammy. I think it's awesome that you're pregnant, but it's you get down it for a Grammy when you could really be on the road, right And it's again, both are amazing things, but the irony is that it happens right when you kind of have to put yourself off for a little bit.
Yeah, I kind of have to wrap it up for a little bit. And that's all I feel like I've ever really known is just staying on the road. That's kind of how especially you know, when I was more of an independent artist, that was how I road tested my songs, Like that's how I knew what to put on a record. But I don't know, it feels it feels kind of awesome just with the music and everything. It's something I've wanted to do, which part the starting a family obviously when a Grammy something.
I didn't know. It's both are awesome, yeah, in different ways. And just being nominated for a Grammy. It makes people like, have you done Kimmel before?
No?
Have you done any late night shots before?
No?
Because having a Grammy nomination gives you a lot of leverage to land the spots. Yes, and I'll just assume
I'm assuming it didn't hurt. When you have a Grammy nomination, you're like, I want to come to Jimmy Kimmel or they call you and goat like that's probably a big part of why they were put on too, you unless there's like a great music producer that happens to where they just know really good music and they're looking for an opportunity to put somebody on that they really like, but they can't really convince their higher ups yet because so.
This music supervisor at Kimmel, who is it? Jim Pitt? And I know that he's been interested in booking us, and.
That's what I mean, like he probably is wanted it, but you.
Know, this does move the needlet bit. And you know, there was an offer for us to do it earlier in December, and two of my bandmates was like, the only I'd given the band off all year. They'd just got into Hawaii and it was Monday. They wanted us on Wednesday, and that was really hard to not be able to just jump at and do. And then the first Monday of this year they they made good on
the date and invited us back. But it is funny that all these very visible opportunities are coming when I'm like aesthetically just different than you know, I normally would be. But I also have always said that it would be nice to see more female performers that are pregnant kind of out there doing it because I think there's no stigma to it, and for what I do, I feel like it's definitely just, you know, part of the process. It's just my life and I'll figure it out.
Stigma is interesting because that word doesn't even come to mind. I'm also not a woman right right, and I'm not feeling the things emotionally or the pressures that you are, So I say that, but I don't think stigma. I think if I were pregnant, I just wouldn't want to sing, right, Like, that's literally what I would be, like, Yeah, we don't see a lot of people that are performing pregnant, and I in my head go, yeah, I definitely wouldn't want
to perform pregnant. Because physically wouldn't feel good.
I've been really lucky. I felt good. And also just I love singing physically. I think there's something about just the act of doing that that's very satisfying to me.
Also, you're really good. I don't have us I'm not fishing say nothing back to this positive about me. I don't have a single skill that is half as good as you singing, and so.
I will not allow that comment.
But I truly believe that with all of my heart, Like, you are really one of the great vocalists, just period. And I've been lucky enough to know you for a decade. At this point, it has been it's been over ten years ago, yeah, or right at it.
I'm about to tip my seventeen year in Nashville. How many seventeen years? But I really feel like, and I'm not just saying this because I'm sitting with you, Like the ten year town process for me began around the time that we met, and that's when I started I think doing things more on my terms. Like that's when the clock really started, because the first seven years were crazy and I was thrown around.
I don't know that seven years, so i'd like to know about that seven years if we can, because I do want to come back to the Grammys and how I have lots of questions, But again, I do know you. I do know you.
Yeah, You've given me lots of really great moments too.
And it's I know some people in their acquaintances, but like I know you. I would say I know you like because we've been on the road together years ago. We you know, talk on the phone. I'm talking on the phone to anybody. I hate talking on the phone. It's the worst thing talking on the phone. It's the literal worst thing.
Oh I feel I enjoy a phone call.
I hate a phone call.
So I have to be in the right mood. But if I am there long.
When did you come to town? Why did you come to town? And what was the expectation you had when you got to town?
I was nineteen. It was January fourteenth, two thousand and eight that I moved into my apartment, which is very awesome because I'll be performing Kimmel the same day as my anniversary. And I moved here with Tommy Mottola kind of as like the liaison for me.
Sony guy. Yeah, Mary Carry's my husband. In that order. What I would think of when you say that, Yeah, me too.
And he was a pretty old school kind of like how do you know him? I met him through a family friend of mine who actually was like my financier in the beginning. He helped fund a lot of my music and projects. And I got to go to Tommy Mattola's office because my friend Tom Totelly, who is still a friend, He's going to come to the Grammys with us, even though he's not directly involved in my career. He was there from the beginning, so it felt kind of
meaningful to have him there. But he had a business associate who knew Tommy, and by some miracle, we caught him on a day where he was open to having me visit him at his office, which was in Bergdorf Goodman, and I was so green. I just like walked in there. Yeah, played three songs and the melodies were strong, Like I think he obviously saw that there was something there, and he agreed to kind of be a consultant. I guess
for my initial move to Nashville. That's how I got signed to Republic before Republic Nashville even existed, So I was working with the New York office but operating out of Nashville, and I just was on this track to put some music together in six months. So I was writing with all these amazing writers and did not know who I was, you know. I think it was like a baptism by fire experience because I was who knows.
Who they are at nineteen though, even though I'm in much less an artist, which well, and I.
Think a lot of those initial years I learned so much, but I was course correcting a lot of it. It's almost harder to undo those first impressions because you want to be intentional about who you represent yourself to be. And I just didn't really get that opportunity. And I
don't think there were any bad actors in that. It was just we had a very powerful person in Tommy saying like, you know, you're gonna be a star, and we're gonna do a music video and do this and that, and that's just really, first of all, not not exactly my aspiration. I want to have a sustainable career and make lots of different types of music for a very long time. And that's also how the Kings of leon
Cover came to be of use. Somebody, and at that time I already had some other music that probably would have sent me musically on a more accurate path to where I've ended up. But we were just kind of firing from the hip and that Republic deal fell apart.
It was a singles deal, and Scott Roshadow was kind of involved, but not really like everyone was like one foot in, one foot out, And I also think understandably Scott probably didn't want to be told by someone in New York who he was and was not going to work with.
What's difficult about the one foot in one foot out, because I've had experiences with that in my career. Is the one foot in is in case you pop and you make it.
Yeah, it felt very conditional.
The one foot out is I'm not committed, and I don't plan to be committed unless you pop and you make it. But if you do, I got my foot in. I'm happy to like throw throw some support occasionally, but unless you have unless you're building your own momentum. In my experience with one footers, that one foot out is the dominant foot. Yeah, that one foot in is the I got to foot in and I'm gonna help a little bit. But it's only really here because if it pops, I want to be able to get both feed in.
Yeah. I like the term one footers. Yeah, it's happening all the time right now. I agree just with how disposable I think we treat so many of our artists in town, Like a lot of the labels around town are signing up a bunch of TikTok artists because you know, if it works, it works, but there's not a lot of development.
And also the label aren't committing a whole lot to it either, right, I mean on the front side, we're going to commit and like you said, singles, it's a new version of that. Yeah, but they're able to now because I think there's been so much failure with the TikTok artists. There have really been some that have popped, no doubt about it. But you're right, it was a cattle call of all cattle that have had songs have
gone viral, and a race to sign them all. Yeah, and how that's really translated in the way of you got a couple of good ones and thirteen that didn't quite work out. And I think now it's starting to even itself out a bit a bit more where it's not totally on an algorithm because you're about two years ago, that's all it was, right. They were only signing people, and it.
Was devastating to the people who thought they had gotten that opportunity.
And that we're looking to have a sustain like PA in that career.
And they couldn't put a thirty minute live set together.
Because did you feel like you were going to be because of the people that you had around you, even if it was temporary or momentary, did you feel like in your heart like, oh I'm here, it's star time, Like I got Oh yeah.
I felt like I was following the full proof template that had worked so many times for so many people. And you know, I pushed back a little bit at the suggestion of doing the Kings of leoncover because I was like, why would I do someone else's song when I have these originals that I think are more representative of who I am. It was like, just do this and then you can go do it your way like that was always kind of the mantra I was hearing,
which you know, that's just never really the case. And when it didn't work out, I felt like I just kind of had to put the pieces back together and that there are a few iterations of that over the years. Like I even went back to the drawing board and I was like, I'm going to go buy Maggie Rose now and I'm going to reclaim Mike because it was it was my government name, Margaret Duranny.
I didn't see. I didn't know that. Yeah, so you were Margaret though, well when you did your very first introductions to people, it was Margaret.
Yes.
I never met Margaret.
No. No, maybe not well you know Margaret.
Yes, but I never met Hi. I'm Margaret, right, you were Maggie by the time that I that I met you.
Yeah, And that was sort of me trying to take my power back and get another crack at that first impression, and there was like not just you know, I cut my hair off and I started writing all sorts of music and performing live was a big way for me to explore what kind of music I wanted to end up recording. But then even then I was dealing with country radio and all the confinements of that, and it
was just tough. There was it was felt very one dimensional, like your whole life was poured into the success of whatever radio single you chose, and that could be your entire year. That's how people know you. And I just felt like, in a lot of ways when it just became on Cannibal, that that's maybe the best thing that
happened to me. Like my label folded, I knew you at this point, and I had a song out at radio that I was told by the label I was with at the time, and all my programming friends like, that's testing the best. You gotta go put out a girl in your truck song, which that's not who I am either, And then Maddie and Tay had girl in a country song and just became this David and Goliath thing, and I was like, I don't, why would I want
to be here anymore? And put up with that, And I feel like that's when I made change the whole thing, which was just still country in its own way, but like soulful, and I had all my friends in the studio and we recorded a live record, and like that's what I mean by the ten year o'clock kind of starting around that time because I just felt like I had to. I had like almost to do damage control more than take all these years I had invested and build upon them.
Do you ever think about leaving yes, did you ever leave for a minute? No, how close you get to leaving.
I thought very seriously about moving to la in twenty fifteen.
Why didn't you?
I think a lot of things happen in Nashville that encouraged me to stay that record. Being able to just make a record with my friends and realized that I was capable without an investor and without a label and like really be hungry for a while and have it turned out the way it did was encouraging. And I think, like, I owe so much of the success I have to this community. I owe a lot of the reasons that I'm better at what I do to like opticles that
this city presented me. But I don't know, I feel really really rooted here now.
I feel like the common sentiment about you, I would hear this obviously when you weren't around. So that's how you know it's the truth. That's why people say when you're not around. The actual truth is I think a lot of people were frustrated for you. Yeah, meaning it wasn't that they're like, Maggie got screwed over. It was Maggie's awesome in the music she's making awesome, and the landscape of whatever the current popular country format was wasn't
exactly where you were. You were ahead of it a bit, and it was just like people just wanted them to match. Yeah, because you're wildly talented and you work very hard, and when those two things come together, that's usually a great combination. And we're seeing it now. As a matter of fact, I mean this is it should probably taken a little longer than you initially thought. Hey, I took it longer me
for what I thought too. Yeah, But I think most people were frustrated for you because they knew you and liked you. They would see you perform and were intimidated by you in the best way, and it was like, man, she's either swung and missed so hard or she's ahead of her time. And I think it was the latter, is that you were just a bit ahead of where the landscape of country music is. Maybe so and okay, because I felt frustration for you, did you feel other
people being frustrated for you? Yes, yeah, not sad for you. There's a difference.
I think it's shared frustration with a lot of artists who are not totally doing like the country thing, or even artists who are country adjacent and can't seem to like click.
The funny thing about country adjacent, though, is that country adjacent most of the time ends up being made country. Yeah, Like you can look at Sam Hunt, you can, we can, we can do ten artists who were country adjacent when they came out, and everybody's like that, that's not really it. It's a country adjacent but it was so strong and powerful that it kind of removed the adjacent from itself. And that live record was incredible and even like the media you shot for it, like all that was just
such a like a powerful project. Because again, you're you're, you're one of the best. Yeah. I think everybody, just myself included, was like, oh, it's not.
If it's when the Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the Bobby Cast.
We before you came in, we talked about the album and did a whole deal. And I'm really I'm really happy for you in a way of not like condescending, like I'm happy for you. It's not about the Grammy nomination. It's like when someone owes you money and they finally pay the money.
It's like it's like it's a good analogy.
Yeah, like I think you're finally getting paid back. Yeah, a bit.
So it doesn't feel it feels sturdy in a way that I feel a lot of peace with. Like I'm very excited. I feel like a calm about it. And I think if all these things had happened to me five years ago, I don't know if i'd be as.
It wouldn't calm.
You kind of needed, probably like let it affect me and get weird or something.
I'm a fan. Well likewise, yeah, no, I I'm so happy for you, and you're going to go through this and I'm going to go through this another I don't know, one hundred times in the next twenty years.
Well, I can't say we're not ready for it.
And we'll have an understand even a little more every single time it happens, and we'll be able to pass that along to other folks too. And you know, how's the podcast going? By the way, you still doing it?
Yeah, it's great. We're doing it live at Chief or Churches Bar. Yes, And I love him. He's been like an interesting friend in all of this stuff. And it's it's all women guests, and I love the fact that it's in front of a live audience because conversations just seem to fly by and everyone's on like you know, they're extra sparkly behavior and there's music involved. But we do it once a month because I wanted to once I came out with a new format. I don't ever
want to commit to something and then under deliver. But yeah, we'll have Caitlin Smith on and Britney Spencer and Molly Tuttle, and I just it makes me a better musician to talk to people and to kind of dive into their world and realize as even these people who you think have it all figured out, you know, I've interviewed Melissa Ethridge and Kathy Wilson from Heart and they've just been through it and they're going through it in other ways.
I feel like it's is it weird to say that that's comforting?
You're not isolated and the loan everyone. It's just nobody's sharing it out openly unless you can have a relationship about it. So yeah, it's not like you and I could have this conversation with many other people that haven't had to suffer through a similar thing. But there are conferences we can't have with people about their you know, you have to find somebody that relates right, because it's weird.
Even with my job for the radio show, for example, I will complain like crazy about waking up in the morning and I hate it's worse. I'm not a morning person quite the profession exactly. There's only certain people I can complain to about it and know that it's really not that bad. Like it sucks, I hate it, but in the grand scheme it's okay. Yeah, but I feel like I can really you know, or if I'm on the road a lot, touring and I'm like, it sucks.
Someone that knows how sucky it is to be on the road going in the back doors of places eating crabby food. Yea, even though you're telling jokes to fifteen hundred people.
You know, it's a juxtaposition loneliness to extreme extra version.
I like talking with people that are crazy like me. It doesn't make me feel as crazy.
Yeah, that's exactly it, because.
I'm not crazy. They just don't get to share it just the right amount. I have a screw screwless, a couple of screws, a lot of screws.
You need to be a little bit.
I'm like a I'm like an ikea table that when you're done with it, you got parts left over. Yeah, Like I guess that was supposed to be in there. That's me. Okay, look slut Songbird. That is the podcast we talked about the album a bunch before you got here. Congratulations on the Grammy nomination. And I think you did this awesome. Thank you because I think and I don't know, you may leave and go, how do I like what I said about the things that have been affecting me
over the past few months. I think you handled it awesome.
I feel well, thank you for saying that. It's also nice to tell the story from this vantage point, you know, I feel having some time between it that event and also just all the great things that have happened at the end of this year, and also like talking about being softer and putting things into perspective, like I'm on the precipice of like one of the most seismic shifts with becoming a mom that you're just like, I'll figure
it out. I will, and we just we have like Stapleton dates two months after he arrives, and we're just gonna figure it out. But I think it helps that I don't think there was anyone with malintent in this, just think there was a lack of consideration and I hate that for.
Marriage, some embarrassment on their side. Yeah, like like I mean honestly right, maybe at times I've found that where the people are embarrassed and meet stubbornness and they don't want to have to have the hard conversation, but just they're embarrassed.
Or if someone feels they're sparing me something, well whatever, the proof is in the pudding with what has happened now, And I think it's like nice for me to share the story for any artists who feels maybe like they're attributing way too much of their value to these things that are totally like circumstantial, and they'll come and go like what you're saying, you just have to keep attempting and try and do it in the most sincere way.
It doesn't work because it's not gonna work because if you're a tempting it there, things aren't gonna work.
Yeah, that's that's guaranteed.
Yeah, and everything's working and then you're not really trying hard.
Enough, yes, yeah, or you're too comfortable, which is what you did when you came in and ruffled all the feathers.
I am Maggie Rose, I am not. That's her Instagram name. I am Bobby. Go follow Maggie. Check out the music, and Maggie, good to see you, and good to see you. Good luck and I'll see you. Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.