#111 - Jillian Jacqueline (Part 1)

you were playing with Bryan Adams. I was playing with Ryan Adams that night, but you were on you were going to be playing somewhere. So I was like, oh my god to see your name. And and then you wrote back and you're like, oh, what are you doing there? And I said, I'm opening for Ryan Adams and and you said, oh, like Summer of sixty nine. And I thought you were being serious, and so I was. Of course, I have the worst sense of humor, and so I wrote back. I was like, oh, no, no no, that's that's

Brian Adams. This is Ryan Adams. And you're like, I know that, were like the tim an idiot, had no respect for me. The fact that you thought that I was being serious meant you had no respect for anything about me musically, I do, I really do. I think you do. Because we had a chance to get to know each other. I think I actually thought that a lot of people and no disrespect to Ryan, but I thought he might be like super under the radar and like a lot of people don't know him. And I

didn't know that you were. Um, yeah, I guess I didn't know that you knew a ton outside the country realm. I was just crazy because I'm want to compare this to who from Daniel Bradbrey she came in. I only know her from not the voice, right, I don't know her from the voice Daniel Bradberry and most people know her from the voice. Now, when you say you only know me from country, I worked. I worked every other format for way longer than I have any country. That's great.

But I love that because that means that I'm really resonating where I am now. Because I did pop, alternative, I did hip hop, sports. Well, that yeah, that's it gives you your edge. That's why you're cool here. Oh I'm so cool. You're a cool guy in town. My point was, I'm definitely not the cool guy. My point was you're in a Ryan adom, sir, is that legit like old school? Or no, this is new? This is like from his last tour. Yeah. Um, I love his designs.

He has really great designs. I'll get some, um retro what do they call the T shirts? Vintage? Thank you? I am. I don't even know the word. So when I do awards shows, I have a stylist, it'll like dress me because I'm color blind. Everything dark looks the same to me. Dark. Well, I have to memorize colors, so I know these are a shade of red pants that I have on. And so I've always had this problem.

So I have a stylist that comes and she'll pick out clothes and say, no, that's a green, that's a black. But I'll say, hey, I like the vintage T shirts. And what she does is she finds real vintage T shirts. But they're so expensive. Yeah they are. Yeah, they're like double a normal T shirt price, maybe three or four times too. And she won't tell me because what stylists do. I've only learned this recently. Yeah is that. And I have a great stylist and she's gonna have her own podcast.

But she'll she'll come and she'll say, here the clothes you want, and I'll get a bill back like two months later. And I was like, holy crap, that three students shirt was like sixty eight dollars. That's my point with that. But that's a new shirt. This is a new one. But I have spent like I think the most day spent was eighty bucks on a Judge shirt from I have a nineteen I think eight nine toward Judge T shirt. She's so good, their hair, everything that she picked up because she knew I was a fan

of the Judge. I mean I was, yeah, I can't, I can't. I a mumping them right now. Have you hung out with Winona? I haven't. That would be pretty cool, have you. Oh? I thought you had a great story. I don't. But I was like obsessed with her as a kid and her mom, both of them. I read her book and everything. But yeah, they were some of the like most eccentric characters. I feel like my mom used to sing the Judge all the time. Which song? I mean, which one tell me about? Yes, that's it

to me, that's my mom's singing. It was always the Judge. Like when I think back about that, Yeah, and so obviously I have an affinity for the judge because when you think about being a kid, and I was born in the eighties and they were a big deal kind of to my kid years. Yeah, but I haven't. I haven't been a shirt too that paid way too much more that I haven't worried. Do you ever worried about

wearing them? Because there, if it's so cool, it might be dead, like the shirt you killed the shirt because you can't wear it anywhere else. No. I have that problem with crazy suits. Oh, well with suits because yeah, because if I have a suit for the CMA's last year and it was not cheap, yeah, if it's that outrageous, though, nobody will forget it. You know, if it's like some crazy color sparkles on it, but I can't wear it again. Yeah, you gotta wear it's like a family reunion where nobody else.

But everything's on Instagram now, So that's the problem, you know these days. I don't know if guys have this problem, but I feel like, as a girl and as an artist, if I wear something and I put it on Instagram, then I'm like dead, Yes, then it's dead. Then it's really dead. So I always have to try to somehow make it different. But you your style makes you intimidating. Why because it's really cool. But I told you the first time I met you, I thought you were way cool.

And because I don't know, yeah, well then we started talking. I don't know that we knew each other before I said, Hey, come out on the road and do shows. Did we Nope, we had never met. So the story with me learning your music is that there were other songwriters that you're either friends of or their fans of yours. Yeah. I heard that last night for the first time, and I was like, how they're Morgan and Caitlin Smith, and you know, they would say, hey, Jillian Jacklin is really great. You should,

you know, really listen to music that's really sweet. And the first time that I listened to your music, I was like, wow, I actually like her music, not just for my job but for my personal taste. Like I like your sound because it's cool and it's a little bit throwback. It's a little total leftist center. And so I don't know if you like the description of your music or not. I appreciate any and all descriptions because I don't know where to start. I get asked that

question all the time. How do you describe it? And I I don't quite know how to put it into words. It's like, it's just me, It's what I do. But anyway, continue it was I was like, man, she's way cool, so she's probably gonna be too cool. So I just said, hey, come out and do some shows. And when you were out playing with Ryan Adams and I saw your plans, I was like, oh, man, she's about to come out with the Raging Idiots. It gets no more polarof than

Ryan Adams to the Raging Idiots. But like I said, you have sort of created this this you know, niche in this market where you do something really unique and you also word artists that nobody else is listening to. So for me, it was an opportunity to obviously get to know you, but kind of to you know, meet your fans and play music for people that seem to really want to hear new artists. And that was important to me first and foremost. What's the difference in opening

for Ryan Adams and opening for me? Rus are actually the same? Like full theaters? Yeah, it's like the same, because yours were what three three thousand and four thousand theaters to three. But so that was the vibe. I'll only play theaters because I have to. When you're in a chair, yeah, your attention is forward. Yeah, You're not spending a lot time talking people behind you to the side of you. So I want to captive audience me too, and so that's that's why I only play theaters unless

the festival comes. Yeah. No, I that's you. And there were some similarities with you with your shows and Ryan's, but only to go ahead. Um no, what was the difference? Um? I mean, I don't know. He's like there was a lot of sage burning backstage. Yeah, yeah, I know. He he like z ends out his whole backstage. So it's like he brings a you know, a pac Man on the road and then he burns like all this incense

and stuff like a video game. Yeah, like the full pac Man video game, Like he brings it with him and yeah, no he that was such a fluke thing anyway, I mean that that happened. How does that happen? Did he hear your music? Yeah? He heard my song hate Me and uh I guess on Spotify and he messaged me on Twitter and he was like, hey, did you write this is this you singing? I'm like, yes, that's cool, right, yeah yeah, Ryan at Oh I freaked out like the

gap from Summer sixty nine Robin Hood. Yeah, No, I am a I am a huge, huge fan, like have been for a long time. So of course that was crazy. And then like a month later he had he had slots opening up, and so my agent called me was like, hey, Ryan Adams wants to know if you can be in Minneapolis tomorrow and I was like, yes I can. Who paid more for the opening? Because I think I paid a thousand dollars a show? Did I pay more to Ryan Adams? Pay more? You don't have to tell me

how much you paid. I just wonder who paid you more to how much did you pay me a thousand bucks a show? I feel like it was more than that. You think he paid you more? No, I think you think that. I won't pay anyone less than a thousand bucks because I wanted them to make a little money aside from just travel. Because it was a thousand he paid a little bit more. He did. Come on, he's probably making more than two. If I charge you more for a ticket, that's what I gotta do. I gotta

take care of the artist better. Please, You're awesome. We had a lot of fun. I'm fun right, so fun. My point was some of the nicest people you have around you. You surround yourself, so I surround like everybody around me. Has to be just like they are every everyone they are Mike d Eddie, like all sweet people. Yeah, yeah, Ellen, Yeah, I love Ellen. It was I have a really great crew. Yeah, you have to be awesome as a human to roll on my team, all my teams, if it's my morning show,

the band, the standard crew. I mean you took my tour manager. Wait a second, I forgot you a trick. No, I didn't say it's a bad thing. I'm actually very very happy for her. I have an awesome tour manager. She's so great she is. Yeah, and I did call you because I was happy that you you took her. I don't want to take her from you, No, I would tell you. And if you can offer her a better job to take. I only want people to have great jobs and have great lives and careers. Well, well,

I don't know how great. It's not an upgrade, that's for sure, because you put her on a tour bus. She's going to be driving a van with me, so we dropped sometimes if it's three or four hours, okay, well we put a bus, you know, fancy plane. Yeah, you know that stuff. I know you do. I got the offer a couple of times. I couldn't make it happen, and I wanted to, but I had more than people. There are only so many seats. I know, I know, but you did. So. I have a tour manager and

her name Titia. She's awesome. Did you meet her out with me? Is that how you knew her? And then Julian tried to hire him like she did hire her. Yeah, but not. I don't think you hired her from me at all. You're just using her outside of me. I think. I think that's the case. Yeah, I think that's the case. You know, speaking of private jets, I just learned that artists will play shows like for these private jet companies and barter for flight time. And I was like, people

in society, I will do this. That's the that's how you get in, Like I just it's amazing. Without I don't want to put him on. I would say his name, but I think tell you after recording. He came to me the other Day said he you should do more of this. I have did deal and so are you play shows and then they give you ours. That's crazy. You don't pay any money. You may have to play taxes on it. Okay, there's the one thing you can't avoid taxes. Yeah, but it is amazing and I can't

say that happened. It's not a system. I just have done that before and they go, hey, can I use your services and exchange We'll give you our services. Yeah, that's yes, it is great. Um. All my point was was that you you seemed quite difficult to approach, and then I said, you know what, I'm just gonna see and then I was completely wrong. You're super You seem super cool because you were super cool. Sometimes people look

super cool and they're they're they're a little difficult. Uh yeah, I mean it's I know people will probably always say this, but like I'm really not. I'm just no, no, I vouch for that now. Yeah I'm not. But even your artwork is cool, Like there's a vibe to you red ro cool vibeeah. Yeah, well I love that stuff. That's my one of my favorite parts of this is design. I'm like a huge just I love all things that have to do with um. I mean graphics and photography

and anything visual. I've just always loved that stuff. So I do all of it myself, and I kind of just tell you, yeah, most most of it. I mean some stuff I can't actually do, like on Photoshop, so I have someone from my label do it. So I do Microsoft paint no old school in the computer with the colors. Okay, we do a commercial, all right. Let

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on the radio show before? Yeah, So I remember I was flying to Mexico that day and we went in at like seven, What time show going? Well, I know it starts to five, but you think you came in later. Yeah, we came in and um, you had called us like on a Monday, and it was a Wednesday or something, and so you know, I had wanted to be on your show for a long time, and I was like, oh shit, okay, we're going in like in two days.

And I had never done that before. That's right. It was your first ever radio You did the word ship. You did that's right. And we were like, whoa, you can't do that because on this you can say whatever you want, because this isn't good because these airwaves aren't regulated by the government. The government owns the radio airwaves and they regulate them, right, and you were breaking the law, but they don't put you in jail. They and I had just come off a million dollar fine about ten

months prior. You didn't have famillion dollars. I got fined a million of my company paid it for me. Okay, I want pay. I mean, I guess that's a big plan. That's a multis like, but I cost my company a million dollars for something you said, yeah, for something I did on the air. And so when you came on and you cursed, were like, but I brought you in. Nobody had prepped me before I walked into the road. I told you that was the best way to come

in because you weren't media trained. Yeah, and I haven't been since them and you shouldn't be if you actually have thoughts. I feel like you shouldn't be. The only things that that real art and I say artists people to have something to say creatively, maybe not speak it

or sing. But the only thing you should really be trained on or the quirks if you go uh or your mouth goes, or if you kept scratching yourself like you just did for the whole the whole thing, just like those are the little things that you should be told about, right, Yeah, but you don't have those, so you're good. So you came in. Here's what I remember from this. You came in and you I was really nervous.

I couldn't tell Oh, yeah, I was very nervous. I don't think we've done any shows together by then either. And then I remember that I like had to put the lyrics to rich Girl up on my iPhone and I couldn't get my phone too. It was just and I was like probably shaking and sweating, and I don't you know what what sucks about me is that in the same thing, I guess with anyone, I've been doing it so long, I don't know what it's like to

come from the other side. Yeah, I get that. So it's intimidating though walking into that room knowing who you

guys are. It is, yeah, because everybody has played that show, like everyone important, and so when you finally get to play the show, you're like, oh, I remember you came in and again I was a big fan, so I said, hey, I WI want you to play multiple songs, and I think you played two of your own and a cover, which is rare because most of the time, so my audience, if they don't know an artist, what I like to

do is let them play a cover. So the audience goes, oh, I'm familiar with the song they're playing, and I also like what they're doing, so I'm gonna listen for their original if anything else. Because some people will go covers out my thing, and I go, that's great. But they are my audiences thing for the most part, because they could be warmed up to a new artist completely. I understand that more now I have a very complicated relationship

with cover songs people do. Yeah, And I think I was like just scarred as a child because I did a lot of karaoke and like had to play weddings and I just didn't. And with this age, of social media. A lot of people I think can like they only do covers, and then it just feels like, what do you have to say personally? You know, I don't need to see you sing someone else's song all the time, So I tried to stay away from that. But I get it. When an audience sees a show for the

first time, they have no idea who you are. They get really excited when you play the cover song because then they feel like they can identify with first of all the song you picked. They're like, oh, okay, they like that song too, that speaks to them. And then if you do a really good job, then they've heard an awesome version of that song that they've never heard. So I am warming up to it now and I'm having to learn more covers because the country audiences love them.

I don't think you should have to do a lot of them, but for me on this show, because we do about I think five million a week to listen to the show, right, so I'm dealing with a major audience at one time. And so even on the podcast when the podcast is different, even the show podcast not this one, because people can skip things, I have to keep them when I'm live and if they change it, then I may not get that as high of a ratings. So in order, if someone plays an unknown song by

an unknown artist, people go check something else out. I might come back. But if you play something they know, you kind of lure them in to something that you were doing now in the tone of your voice even you know, like if they like the way you sound, And you did Rich Girl, and it's fantastic. I don't remember you're not having the lyrics. I just remember nailing it. I remember you saying it a bad word. And then

you played two songs, and I remember that. And I don't look at iTunes as much because the days of downloading music are still up on us, but a lot of people are, all the younger are streaming more than downloading. But I looked at eye Twits, and both of the songs that you played on the show, I just went boom, and then they both jumped really high, which meant they bought both songs, which meant they weren't just liking a song, they were liking an artist. And I was like, oh,

that's like I thought you were good. But I think my connection with the audience is a lot of times not always, but a lot of times I can speak for them and go, this is good and they liked you. And remember thinking that, Wow, she played two songs and they're both being downloaded like crazy. Yeah, well that's I have to tell you, like you gravitating towards hate Me, and I think it was hate Me and God bless or. I don't know what you played, but I remember you

liked hate Me. And just the fact that you liked hate Me and decided to play that song. You know, that was a big discussion with my whole team, like, well, Bobby likes hate Me, and we were trying to figure out what the song be the single for radio. There's a difference on what and what I think because hate Me is my favorite song. Yeah it is, come on. But again, as a business guy, I would say this

isn't your radio song. But at first, yeah, because I heard have something stupid enough, a little a little more tempo at first, because you have these working against you. It's a slower song and your female and it's about a relationship it Yeah, and they are all these little idiosyncracies that people will look for to shoot it down, like, oh, it's too negative. Because programmers much like myself are huge douchebags. We are, And I don't think a douchebag means you're

a bad person. I think a douchebag is someone who thinks they know more than they actually do. You're probably right, I'm the epitome of a douchebag. Yeah. What I've learned from radio is I think everyone is generally still trying to figure out exactly what's going on. Um And not to discredit anyone, because I think everyone is doing their best, but I think it's it's changing really fast, and so I think people are just trying to maintain some sort

of like understanding. And maybe that comes off as like, here's why, Jillian and Jacqueline, I'm the smartest person radio. You're ready, Yeah, I'm ready because I know I don't know anything. Yeah, it's very Socrates, who you really do? You really think you don't know? There's nothing to know in a creative space. You can't actually know anything. There is no form in a creative space. You can take your best guesses. You can hear things and you can

try to relate them. Because I have an audience that trust what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing, and most of the time they agree with me, and so they have that trust. They give me the benefit of that. But there's I can't possibly know something that's not tangible. So you don't ever worry that you need to have like a handle on what is popular or I'm worried about that I've lost a step, but you don't. You don't worry about that. Now. If you said, what's my

radio song? I could tell you. So you have like a separate part of your brain. That's like, okay, I understand what radio would want. Yeah, because that's just data analysis, watching what other douchebags are doing, you know, being knowing all the douche baggs being one myself, like it takes a solid douche bag to and I'm the king of them. So but no, but I yes, it's a different thing. But yeah, there have been I don't think about that stuff.

So I don't know. Yeah, I managed to do sixteen weeks of a radio tour and I still don't check anything. I don't My brain doesn't go there. I just it would ruin my creativity. It would literally squash it and I would be dead inside. So I just can't. I just don't look at it. I don't ask questions. I'm such the opposite. Well, there's some artists that like really are good at it and they want to know and they ask all the questions and they stay up on it,

and I commend them. I don't work that way. I am so personally connected to every lyric of my songs that I I it would crush me. Like if I watched something die, Do you look at comments? Let's say hate me up? Oh no YouTube, No, I would never comments because it's never good. No, you're walking into are But sometimes times I've seen, like you know, at the top, they'll have the thumbs up and the thumbs down, and I'll be like, who the hell bumbs down? Like who

are you? You can go you can save an orphan from a bus flying over clip and someone thumbs down. Seriously, it's too easy to make if someone feel disliked, and there's a power in having an equal voice going I don't like it. And I finally had the power to tell someone that I don't because what I think is it's very much into the psyche of like myself. I've been told a long time that hey, you suck, you don't speak right. So the natural and I'm just using

myself as an example. Yeah, I would go, oh, I don't like being told that I'm not good, So I finally have an even voice, and I'm going to tell someone they're not good. And I think a lot of that happens. So, yeah, I don't think they actually just like things on Facebook page. I can't. I don't even go and I say this on the air, I don't go to my show's Facebook page. I don't even go look at it maybe three times a year, because it's it's just that it's just a hatred mindfield. Yeah, and

that's unfortunate. I don't know why people don't realize that something they type on their computer and send out into the universe, that they don't realize it has power. Because that's what I can't figure out. It's not real. It's so real to me, like I would never do that. That's just because you've had a taste of it, and

maybe you may maybe a better human too. But I'd like to think I'm that have been just disgusting to me, and you meet him in person and there actually pretty nice people and they're like, oh, I'm sorry that, Yeah, it was just I just think when you're on the computer, you don't feel like it's real life. That is probably messing up our psyche in some like very deep psychological way. I think that we're not connecting our actions with other

people's feelings. We also don't think that people actually see what we're writing. If let's say Chris Rock puts out a comedy special and I give a little comment, I don't think, yeah, that's true. I really feel like there's enough disassociation that you're like, yeah, I get it. You feel free and clear and safe. But will he absolutely yeah,

I mean probably probably. I won't mention. His name is a plus less artist and I'm very friendly with and he put his out out and he was reading reviews of it and he was like, he's like, I can't believe that the people he was reading literal reviews the day it came out is he's an ape you can get And he was like, the album was huge. See. That just goes to show though there's everything is relative too.

I'm learning that everything is relative and everything there's conditions on things, So you know, I think that for me, um, I just try to remember to only focus on the things that I actually have control over because otherwise there's somebody out there that's gonna say something about me, and it's going to get back to me, and it's probably gonna hurt my feelings. But I don't I don't even.

I think I'm so afraid of like knowing that people could be that horrible to me, because I am not at the point where I'm getting bombarded with like mean stuff. Like everyone's pretty generally nice to me online. But there will come a day maybe when you exposure rises. Yeah, and then people are like, oh, she's big. She's big enough now that I can throw stones and she probably won't notice. That's weird to me because I'm just here,

like writing songs about my life. That feels weird. I think that that's also what makes you cut through, Like what is your biggest strength turns to be your biggest weakness as well. Yeah maybe, And I'm also I've sort of like realized that I have to keep holding onto

this underdog mentality. Whenever you feel like you're getting to the next step, I think you have to keep your mind one step behind the step you just took, because if you actually believe you are where you are, then you start to get delusional and I think that I always want to keep this underdog mentality of like I am the underdog and I can't believe I'm here because if I ever get comfortable in any situation I'm in, you know, it's probably just gonna, like, first of all,

fall apart. And I don't want to believe any hype that ever happens around me. And that's all with who you surround yourself with, because I'm perpetually the underdog. But when you start putting people around your people coming, why say, oh, you you get a million dollar fine? Next thing? You know? That for me was the I was out of control. Yeah, and I got a million dollar fine. And now I'm not really that out of control anymore. I just kind

of out of control. But no, I think that it's a lot with who you surround yourself with, you know. With me, I like all joking aside. I've I've kept the same people from when I was doing nothing. I'm just grinding it out in one town, an awesome city. But we were the underdoggings in one city much less we weren't syndicated, we weren't anything. I think that's incredible that you have all your friends on this show with you.

It's the only thing that kept me somewhat normal, has made me successful with surrounding myself with that layer of Hey, Bobby, you're being a douchebag right now. That's what Amy my coast does. Feel like you're out of You're a little out of control right now. I kind of be in. And they've been with me so long that I go, huh, at least I'm going to evaluate this. Yes, I don't always agree, but that's been it for me, is keeping

the people around me. You said something last night because we had a show last night where I took my class who every year, I picked five artists and I go, hey, this is a big year, and you're one of them this year. And so you were talking last night and you're he's not your fiance. Yeah, I forgot my ring today. By the way, I'm not wearing it right now. It's at home. He's still not remembering. Yeah, I'm not used to.

It's been like six days. You made the comment that he has to be on stage with you and play songs that you wrote about your boyfriend before. Yeah, that's pretty funny, it is. I haven't. I didn't think about it until we were on radio tour and somebody on at the radio station was like, so, wait, you guys are dating now? That sucks for him, Like he's just singing about your ex. And I was like, Oh, he's fine, whatever, He's fine. But then later I was like, wait, that

actually is kind of shitty for him. I feel bad he's and he like you know, takes it like a champs. He's not, he's not sensitive about it. But it's I think it's weird knowing how long we're gonna have to sing these songs about my ex and there's always going to be like that's story through my music, Like I'm always going to have that person as part of my musical history. And he inspired a lot of songs, you know,

and uh, that's the way it goes. But I was talking to Carly Pearce about that because her songs about X and it's the same thing. You write songs about people and they come in and out of your life and then you always have to sing this song. They're like immortalized, and the feelings you had then are like stuck on me and with hate me especially that song still makes me feel like that that was tough. It was um and that person is like still someone I

really care about that. I think why gravitated to it is. I mean, all your songs have this authentic texture to them, but that song was you don't even think about that song unless you're living it. Like you don't even think that's a concept unless you're living it, because you don't go I could go, hey, I want write a song about a any day in Africa. Yeah, and I could write that song even I've never been there. Yeah, you don't write this song hate me unless you've actually been

in the place where that's coming out of you. And I like wrote that song the day that that whole conversation happened and where I felt all of those emotions, Like I went straight from our what was our house to my writing session and yeah, so you walk in the room and you say what to your co writers? Well, it was just tofor and I my producer when I got there, Hillary Lindsay, was showing up in like forty five minutes, and so he and I wanted to have

something started before she got there. So I explained to him the conversation I had just had with my ex and I had written down in my phone this would be so much easier if you hated me. And so I was talking to Tofur about that and how I really loved this person and care about this person, and it's so much harder to walk away and not want to walk right back when you really care about him. And I was just like, I wish one of us

had cheated on each other. I wish we had killed someone something that would make it easier to never want to see you again because it's not working, we're not happy,

but we still love each other. It's very felt, very complicated at the time, and I was just trying to say that in a song, and I really felt that that chorus, you know, just kind of fell out as a conversation, and I think I pretty much said like the first four lines to toe for like, you know, come on and hate me, tell me you regret you ever met me, you know, make sure that it hurts right as I'm leaving. I mean, I just felt that, like I feel that I don't have a good history

of relationships. No one's ever cheated. Why are you laughing? I don't know. No. I was just like I've heard some things. No, I've heard you talk about it. Yeah because anything, Yeah, because anything I mean I say everything. I feel like I said everything, but no one's ever cheated. It's always been really awesome, but it's been my fault and I might just like, Man, it would just be so much easier if you were just discussed it with me and wanted to just read me from you because

they're so awesome. Yeah, I don't have a bad ex girlfriend. I've been. I've been the problem every time, and it would just maybe that's why that song hits me so hard, where it would just I just relate to it. Where do you want to get married? Yeah? I think you want to have kids? Yeah, I think so. I'm definitely not against it. I'm not someone who goes no. But again I don't. I haven't been right there where I'm going. I want to do that, and I'm not going to

do it for the sake of doing it. So but because I don't, I think I do, if that's fair to say, because I am not like Nope, I don't. That means I think I do for the right. Yeah, if you're even open to the possibility, that's why I think I am. Yeah, they definitely am. Yeah. Okay, another commercial right in the middle of the in the middle

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As you're getting older, when you realize that, like kids in high school are saying things that you don't even know they're saying, Well, I feel nervous about it. If I was still doing any sort of pop, yeah, I would have to worry about that. But I feel like my audience is between the ages of twenty six and forty nine anyway, and they're not that quite either. So I'm just talking to my Now. If I had a bunch of fifteen year olds listening, I'd probably talking about

how lit it was all the time. But I'm not, so I don't. I've never used that word except for making. Have you guys used to stand the word stand? Well, I understand the concept of the eminem song. How do you how do you use that in a sentence? Well?

So if okay, So I'm talking to my friend Charleman earlier today, and he's a radio host in New York, and I'd be like, I wouldn't say this in normal life, but if I were to use stands, I say, hey, I saw someone that was posted on YouTube and they were standing you like crazy, like hardcore messaging, huge fan, like relentless, like obsess. Yeah, because Stand was an Eminem song from back in the day, your biggest fan, this is stand. Oh, that's where it came from. I would assume, right, yeah, Oh,

I thought it was like stalker fans stand. That's what I thought. That's okay, just assumed it was imminent. Did I make that up? It's from Eminem? Right, yeah, oh that makes sense. I wrote you this song, you know, the biggest fan, this is Stand. And at the end of this you ever heard the Eminem song Stand? Yeah? Okay, at the end? What happens at the end of the song? I don't know, like drives cliff right dies, yeah, d I have a very limited repertoire of popular songs like

anything that happened in the nineties. I was only listening to like country or oldies, so I don't know many of the popular songs that other people know. That's why when that happened at your show, I freaked out. Yeah, said, hey, that's play cover. She came out because we know every cover and I don't know anything. She didn't know any songs. And then finally we settled on crazy that's fine, and then it was really good and we did it the whole time. It's like, let's stop searching and you come

out and crush it. And I said, Jillian, here's why you come out and do the cover, because you sell more merch. You come out during our show. I loved it. You said that to me. You're like, just sell your merch, you know. And I'm like, what do you mean. You're like, tell everybody you're selling. I'm like, I feel weird about that. I don't want to talk about He's like, just tell them people want to buy it. I learned that though that You're right. It's I need to stop being so

bashful about like I have stuff to sell. I I don't know why I felt weird about it and that people want to buy it. Yeah, I understand that now. Yeah, And I was people enjoy you. They want to know that you have stuff. They want to know that you're gonna be signing. Tell them yeah, and if they don't, they'll walk by. They don't have to buy it, but let them at least know. I think I can be uh super like critical of other people um trying to sell themselves, So I always am very aware and not

wanting to come off that way. I want people to like just listen to the music. But yeah, yeah, interesting, who do I oversell myself? No, I'm not judging you. I think more so like artists like and I'm like, well, you know, I want you to talk about your music. I don't want you to talk about your merch. But I'm kind of getting around that because I'm realizing that there's a lot of things in life I've been precious

about that I don't need to be anymore. My point with the merch too, was one people want to buy it if they enjoy you, that that's a moment for them. Because I go to shows. I have a John Mayer sweatshirt of more at one time, but I freaking got that from his show and I'm a big fan and I love it. I just love it in my closet. Reminds me of when I went to Minneapolis and watched him doing it his show. And also what people may not know is that you artists, that's part of how

you eat. Yeah, I mean it's how you play the bills, that's how you eat. Because again I just said earlier, I paid you a thousand bucks a show, but let's say it's two thousand dollars for the weekend. You have to travel. You're buying flights at three. See, this is the stuff that I start to glassy. I got my eyes for your guitar player. You gotta pay for hotel room. I'm just trying to come out in the black, no,

you know. For I am like, I am very romantic about my career a lot of the times, and I'm thankful that I have people around me that do the other stuff, because I love the mystical, magical world of making music and I don't want to be totally desensitized by all the other stuff. On the on the other hand, I'm the most o c D type, a organized artist, so I also get people telling me I need to

calm down and stop worrying about the little details. But there's a part of me that doesn't want to know about like how the prices breakdown we rent the tour bus, and how much more we sold and what the tickets are. You know, that stuff starts to make me feel anxious, so because then I just want to think about playing the show. Well, it's also your job to hire good people who make which yeah, yeah, totally, which is what I've been able to do. But I'm a schemer. I'm

not trying to scheme anybody out of things. But if there's a way to manipulate media, I will do it. I think that's smart. I wish I had that if I don't think here's the difference to me in you you have a genuine talent. I scheme to find ways to make people feel like I'm talented, right, I really don't have. I don't really have anything about me that's like wow, Like I don't. I think you're an incredibly engaging personality, but that's just me. Like, I think you're

interesting and your story is interesting. That's why you wrote a book about it. Yeah, but again, you have to get really invested to get there. Okay. Yeah, my talent is that I can make people feel like I mean, you could be like Ellen, Like I could see you with your own like actual TV talk show. Well enough about me, God, bless this mess. Enough? Oh I cannot. I don't want anyone pliment me or insulting me. Actually we talked about this once. I hated to skin crawl. Don't. Well,

that's not true. I don't like it in the moment. I don't like receiving it. And then later I'm like, oh, they said that about me. That was cool, Like you know, I kind of tuck it away to think about it later. That's cool. I should do that. You don't do that. No, I'll tell you what I do is I have pictures, like in my room. I have the first time that I sold out the Rheman, I keep that picture. I didn't enjoy it that not at all. It was miserable to man, because I kept thinking, how's this going to

fall apart the whole time. Yeah, I've done that over and you didn't enjoy it. But I have a picture of me sitting on the stage looking at the before I came in. Yeah, I enjoyed that picture so much. I love that picture. I don't know what that sounds so sad. It's like the moment was miserable completely. My favorite theater is in Austin, Texas. The Paramount Theater went to so many shows and I have a picture of me the first stand up show I did at the Paramount.

It's sold out, and after the show was over, there's a stage and that's it, and someone got a picture of me sitting on the stage just looking at it, and I really it was just like, man, I wonder, you know what they're reviewing me? Terrible, I'm sure, but it's okay. I was thinking that at the time, being miserable. But they got a picture of me, and I enjoyed that picture so much. Like I just try and have good pictures that I can appreciate later. I know, I'm

looking for new therapists by the way too. It's a whole thing, but that's but I enjoy those pictures. I yeah, No, I have done that quite a few times where I have completely lived through a moment or you know, a situation in my life and just been so written with anxiety and like depression to the whole thing. And then later, you know, someone will like bring it up to me and and I'll somehow find like a sliver of goodness in it. But it was torture, like the whole thing

going through it was just awful. But you know, as I've gotten older, I've done that so many times that now that I've gotten older. I'm like, stop doing that. Don't don't waste your life being miserable. Like through the port and stuff. There was huge shows, like really exciting shows that I remember. I was just the whole show I'm playing and I'm thinking, these people hit me, nobody likes it. Oh my god, why am I here? I

want to leave? And we just play like a whole set and then get off stage and everyone's like, great job, and I'm like, no, it's warble. They're lying, They're lying. I was convinced that it was the worst, and then I'll see like a video back and be like, oh, it wasn't that bad. Okay, everything's then you're doing the same thing. Yeah, I came back to this song. Also, I'd like to say this too. I think that when we start talking, we always get off onto something and

we actually have a pret backup with always. But because of that, I really don't know much about you personally because we always start talking about nothing, and then minutes later Jillian got to go on stage. So let's just sit down and talking about the music for a second. Jillian, Jacqueline, tell me about this God left it this mess song. Okay, I like it a lot. Thank you. I like this song too, this song is It was a surprise to me this song. I was sort of turned off by

the initial idea of the title. I thought it was something that I would never be able to sell as an artist because I don't go to church and I don't really pray that often, and I just didn't grow up super religious, and so I just felt kind of like it felt weird for me to sing a song called God Bless this Mess. But Tofur had the title and he was like, we have to write this. This is gonna be great. And he knows that I'm a basket case. He's my best friend and my producer. He

knows everything about me. I'm now marrying his brother. I mean, we have a very long history. So he and I were just talking about how I have gone through many stages of my life in my career feeling very anxious about what's happening next and forgetting to be where I am and kind of punishing myself for that and just basically being like a downer when I didn't need to be. That's kind of been my my m O for for

quite a while. And so we were talking about just how to embrace that and not judge yourself for it and be like, yeah, I am kind of a mess and I make mistakes and I waste a lot of time worrying about stuff and blah blah blah. So we wrote the chorus at my dad's house, uh like right

before we're about to eat dinner. I was up there in New York for a fundraiser, and so tofor was with me to play the show with me, and so he wrote the chorus and we really liked it, and the melody was like done, we had it all figured out, and then we wrote these verses that were sort of like I I I like I do this and my car just broke down and dine like real life stuff, and it just got really heavy and really moby and I was like, nobody wants to hear this. It's too

self indulgent. It's not working. And we were going up to write with Laurie McKenna and Boston, like a couple of months from then. So we decided to bring her the chorus and scrap the verses we had, and we brought it up there and played her the chorus, and Laurie immediately said something. She said, here's to the Brokens, the Misfits and wannabes, and I was like, what did

you just say? And she's like, well, what if we just like make it sort of all inclusive, like all of us that make our mistakes and that don't know what we're doing. And I was like, that's really brilliant, okay, And then the rest just fell out and there's you know, there's tinges of truth in there, Like in the second verse, it's like, you know, here's to the view from the

tile of the bathroom floor. And for me, that was a a very poignant lyric because I, um always sit on the floor when I'm like going through like horrible life moments. I don't know why. I just sit on the floor when I'm crying, And and there have been you know, there's like quarter life crisiss I would call them where I would be on the bathroom floor and just like what am I going to do next? Um? And that resonated with me a lot with my music career, just a lot of moments where things didn't go the

way I thought they might. And so that song became sort of this like almost embarrassingly truthful UM story for me. You know, the core it's just kind of felt like, oh, man, like, am I gonna admit that this is like about me? And uh, I didn't really want to. So we pitched it. We pitched it for other artists, and my publishing company got it to Tim mcgrowan Faith Hill and they had it on hold for a year. So the whole time

are you thinking they were going to cut it? Oh? Yeah, for the whole year, I was like, Yeah, they're gonna cut it and they'll be great. And I think, I don't know if this is true, but I heard that Cam had even heard it and she really liked it, so I was like, great, someone else will do it justice. And then they didn't cut it, and or they cut it but didn't put it on the record, I don't know.

And then I was in the studio and I was making my my record right after I signed my record deal, and my label just kept bringing that song up and they're like, what about God bless this mess? You know, it's this huge anthemic ballad, and I was fighting it because I just I don't know something about it felt like I didn't want to be preachy. And then we ended up playing the song for the band The musicians who we had these incredible musicians, Tony Lucido and Derek

Wells and Fred altering him. And so we played them the verse and the chorus of the song, and they stopped us halfway through the first chorus and they were like, yeah, we were gonna we gotta cut this song. They just loved it, and so we cut it and we tracked the vocal that day. And and then as I was listening to it back in the studio, I was hit

by this thought. I've been very careful and very like strategic for most of my career, and I've thought that I've always been in control and always been making these

moves to try to get to the next step. And and that song was playing in the studio and I was listening to it back, and I was like feeling so overwhelmed and sort of um like I would I had been put in my place by that song, and I realized my album I wasn't going to dictate what my album was that song and the songs that actually told the truth, we're going to create who I am

as an artist. I think sometimes we get this idea in our heads of oh, I'm this ind of artists and I sound like this, and then you have just songs that come along and you're like, oh okay, like it redefines it for you, and you you realize that, um, you know, you can't really force something. You just have to let it be what it is. And that song was just sort of a bigger lesson for me, um in just kind of being myself. I guess dissertation. Right, there's good music school. Okay, I have a lot more

to talk about. I know we're before how long we into this? We should do a two parter. We've never gonna break this into two parts that way people can consume it. All right, So that's all for today. When we come back with you, by the way, stream download Jillian's record, uh SIDEA yes, yeah, and the next time on the next episode The Bobby Cast. We've never done this before. Yeah, I've ever done two parts. I'm one. Jillian made a real diva demand before she got over

to the house, which is where we are now. Yeah, we'll talk about that when we start the next episode of The Bobby Cast. Jillian, We'll see you next time. Alright, alright, bye, see you later.