EP: 387 UFO Crash Retrievals and Dark Matter with Dr. Matthew Szydagis

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I want to find out then and help that person and get the evidence. Is it physical? Can I collect physical evidence? If it's spiritual. So to me it's very simple. Does it go away in the name of Jesus? Yes, no. Yes, okay, it's probably demonic. No? Okay, then let's gather physical evidence. Could these be flesh and blood beings, but aliens, not humans like us? I wanna I wanna get to the truth because I believe like you guys do, there is a truth out there.

A s a truth with a capital T, not just moral truth as we talk in Christianity. There's a scientific truth that can't contradict each other. There is a truth out there. I want to know the truth. If someone's telling me a story and it really happened, they're not mentally ill. They're not making it up.

Let's listen to them and but not just listen. I want to also help. Let's take it to the next level and figuring out figure out what is afflicting them. What type of thing is it? And do we address it with the tools of physical science? And Ryan and Father Mark. always talk about this? Or do we address it with a different set of tools because it's something spiritual? The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Enjoyed a journey.

I'm gonna assume at least one person is right because if one person's right, it busts the paradigm. It all goes back to the phone. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This guy Big deal! Alright, welcome back to Blurry Creatures. I'm excited for this episode today because we talk about all the uh

sort of the supernatural natural implications of UFO UAPs. Is it a physical phenomena? Is it demonic phenomena? Is it a is it a physical manifestation? Do these things crash? We've had some big names on the show and you know the debate rages on. But we have today Dr. Matthew Shadagis.

uh an experimental physicist pushing the boundaries of what we know about the unseen world. And uh we talked about this a lot on our show. Welcome to the podcast. We're excited to get into this. You are actually you have pieces of wreckage and you are studying them and you're trying to maybe push some different theories into the Christian space.

about what these things are and uh it's kind of the evidence that we've collected on our show. See there's there's more going on. It's a more complicated answer than Christians probably want to uh admit or even look at the data. So Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to Blurry Creatures. Excited to get into this one, talk about dark matter and all the things, UFO. Um but first But first, what are your thoughts on Bigfoot?

Well it uh it does bug me that with all the plethora and s you know, people get really mad when I say this, but with the plethora of smartphones I mean, where is the like video of Bigfoot up close? I mean, so so in my opinion, I think if Bigfoot exists and is real, it's a very, very small population and a very small number of individuals because You know, how how could he stay hidden for so long? I mean

Big does Bigfoot have ships, you know, like UFOs, you know, aliens? Like how how how does he stay hidden for that long? So I do annoy a lot of my friends who are like, look, there's footprints and this and And this and that. But but yeah, I I've got a tough time with with that one. I love it. Yes. There some he might have a ship. There are a lot of stories about UFOs and and orbs, especially, which we just did in a really interesting interview about orbs and X point.

portal stuff, which is a whole nother thing, but

Matthew, so great to have you on. For some backstory here, we connected with you via our our mutual friend and Ryan Bethaya who's Exorcist Files Exorcist Files, of course, the Doctor Part with um Doctor with Father Carlos Martins who was Who's been on the show. Um Yeah, you wanted to come on and uh

give the alternate opinions some of that. What I what I love about our our community so I can kinda share this with our listeners is that you're a bit of a unicorn yourself, Matthew, because you are a physical physicist as you talk about. Your day job is you work on dark matter and we are gonna talk about that um in the after show. So stay tuned for the after show with us where we kind of break down what is dark matter and what is a day job

working on dark matter, what does that mean and how do we how does that fit into our worldview? Um, that's gonna be all all very fascinating at the end of the show here. But you're a Christian physicist, which is like point one percent. So you are a believer who works in the realm of physics.

We've had a few on the show now. But you're also in the ET space, right? You've been on the hit you've been on uh History Channel, uh the proof is out there. You've been on a documentary called A Tear in the Sky. You spend time working on uh w with Nemet's witness Gary Voris and you work on physical evidence from UAPs or UFOs. So where where do you want to start start? Where do you want to start with us on this? Because I I love this, as Nate said.

providing more better answers, right? And and more context. And as Nate said, this speak a lot of Christians want to put this in a very black and white, easy answerable thing. It's just demons. This this is this is the put you know, this is the partic preferred path for a lot of a lot of folks in the church. Um

But you're a scientist, you're a professor of physics, you're a researcher, and you're working on on answers, better answers for for the UAP phenomenon. What do you want to start with this? Where where do we go first? Well I feel like God cre has created a universe much more complex than the first. and richer than we might

have thought of that it's actually not very simple and it's very complicated. And that includes a very rich physical realm. So we like on Earth and our solar system is so tiny. that that it's hard. It's impossible to wrap our minds around it to express. Like I could give numbers, I could do math and use analogies, but they really fall short. of how small we are compared to this vast universe. And what would be the purpose of creating such a vast physical universe?

if it's populated only by physical creatures on only one very tiny body compared to the great space. So I think as um one of the characters I think in the movie Contact with Jodie Foster says, I don't remember if it was her character, another character says to her, I think it's just a great waste of space.

Um, you know, there's there's always there's been discussions, of course, going back in church history with philosophers, theologians talking about, you know, the the and it's also the Psalms speak of the glory of God and and the stars and the heavens. But what is the the purpose of all that that is such a vast space? Is it just for really human enjoyment from earth and we can't get there? When it's like such a vast space, what is it? What is the vast space of interstellar, intergalactic space?

for then if it's completely um empty and devoid of life, of physical life forms, with the exception of Earth. That just seems very strange to me. What a huge um waste of space. Yeah, we've we we've talked to, you know, one of the one of our repeat guests on our show, Nate, uh Timothy Alberino. He he kinda he has a similar Thought process logic that like the

perhaps some of these places that we talk about, like are our actual locales within the known universe that we could if we had technology or the ability to to travel, we could go to these some of these places, right? Um The idea of You know, Angels um being physical is also something we talk about the show a lot, Matthew, is like uh the biblical accounts of angels um include a lot of physicality. You know, walking, eating, doing a lot a lot of things that would

You know, that behoove a a physical nature. People say it's also more of a Gnostic idea to to kind of attribute them to be more spiritual or whatever, spirit beings as as opposed to more of the biblical ideas that you know, their physical beings as well. And um I think I think a lot of people put limitations on what they think exists and then they kind of work backwards instead of saying

Let's just look at the evidence and then move forward. Like what's possible? And I don't I don't know why Christians specif particularly do this a lot. Like I I don't think this exists, so I'm gonna explain it all away. And and call and just use these big words to kind of say it's just interdimensional. It's just spiritual. It's like what what does that even mean anymore? I mean those words get more confusing as the show goes on. So you tell us kind of

Maybe h where you're where the data has led you and kind of how you're rewriting sort of what you think how the how the how the rules play out. What's what how does it exist?

I think a lot of what you just spoke to is relatively new. So if you read some of the works by the earliest church fathers, so like third century, fourth century, fifth century, I know you've had I think Diana Pasulka on the show and she's steeped into this in her work. There's also um so there's Dr. Pasilka, there's d um Dr. Paul Thigpen who recently wrote um a book about extraterrestrials and the church and church thinking. Is it used to be the case

Um, this is millennia ago, not just centuries ago, that it was considered the default. Of course, physical aliens exist. Like why not? And that's completely changed now, like you said. So it used to be thought like, yes, there's angels and demons, plus there's things like, you know, not Bigfoot, but

satires and things like that and like but also there's like beings on other on other planets. And that was like considered oh yeah, of course there are. It wasn't even controversial for a few centuries. And it's remarkable that that we went we w went backwards from that thinking over slowly over the over the centuries. But for a while it was considered um the default that you know who are we to put limits

on God's creativity. You know, yeah, he'd probably create other worlds. And there may be some, and this is in Thigpen's book, there may be some, and C. S. Lewis and G. K. Chesterton, I think, have written on this. It's like there may be races that are unfallen. And what does that look like? Or or that are fallen. And then there are some who have gone so far to say that, you know what, maybe there are multiple sentient race species and only humans.

have fallen. And we are special, yes, but not special in the way we like to think. It's like, oh we're special, we're the pinnacle of God's creation. Maybe we are actually the only ones who needed saving because we're so bad. Sometimes in life you're just out of time, you know? And uh you don't have a UFO that pulls up next to you and gives you goes through a space. And so you're tired. You need you're hungry.

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So there's many ways, many possibilities to consider um in this in this space. But what what I what I've looked at in terms of as a physical scientist is when you look at the sort of not just years or decades, but like

going back centuries of evidence of like weird things in the sky, you can't chalk it all up to spiritual, especially with modern technology where we have radar and things like that. And Father Martins would just say, oh, you know Um Orion would say, Oh, you know, demons can just make up fake signals in the radar and I'm like

Really? And God would permit that? And so then allow like scientists to chase up fake leads? That's a huge stretch for me. And ri and really point towards things where we have radar evidence. and potential physical evidence of things that can do like Mach sixty in the atmosphere without a sonic boom and it's like Okay, so those are just spiritual entities messing with us as opposed to just and just pr uh happen to be providing evidence of exactly what we'd expect.

from interstellar probes, really? To then what like fool everybody into like thinking it could be physical aliens and sh just as like a a gotcha moment like down the line. Like it just seems a huge stretch uh to me to think that. And when did you start to like kind of discover this and kind of shift maybe your thinking, make make your ideas get bigger. You're you're you have to make room for for these ideas.

Well, actually it started from a young age for me because I actually I watched um Star Trek Next Generation and watch Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack. And there'd be, you know, UF the have the UFO episodes and things like that. But it really didn't crystallize for me until the 2017 New York Times article that said, by the way.

You know, this the secret Pentagon program, you know, Lou Elzondo came out, Chris Mellon and all these guys are like there was a s like the Pentagon was actually still treating this seriously, despite publicly laughing about it. And to me, just like for many of my colleagues, it was sort of a watershed moment for like, okay, so I guess it's safe as a scientist to start thinking about um UFOs and considering what kind of evidence we have um collected over the years already.

But then you get into actually the physical data of this this phenomena as well and then you have to kind of And I and we say this all the time, they crash, you know? Like there's some sort of assembly line somewhere making this stuff and it lingers in uh

in our world, you know. And so what do you do with that? And so oh it's they they don't want to look at that data. They want to explain it away. No, but I I think you made an interesting point, Matthew, and I wanted to just kind of capitalize on that, is that I I think in the conspiracy realm, right, there's this There is this

movement that all of these things that that we can't never explain are just gotchas, right? Like that there's this vast conspiracy and all it is is is to be a a quote deception. Yeah. And yeah. And I think that's really hard to justify with any any real hard data. And I think that's the problem, right? Is you

It's not just this and that and I think this is where a lot of thinking goes because it's an easy explanation. This is just a demonic deception. So that leads people away from the Bible. And that to me is like I don't know I even know how those two things like fit. Like

But this makes this makes no sense to me. I'm glad you brought that up because I have personally known Several people. And this is a huge then mystery to me. And again, you know, I you probably know this. I was like, Ta talking to Ryan Bathay.

I really would love to be on the Exodus Files. I was like begging him to be on his show, which then he introduced me to you. And I'd be like, look, I need to talk to you and Father Martin's about this. We've got to talk about this. Hash this out. Because I'd like them to explain something for me. Why is it? that multiple people, not one, not two, but more than three people I'd say who I know work in the UAP space, decided to convert.

to Christianity, not because they thought UFOs were demonic, but because they thought, oh, God created more physical alien races. So if it's all a demonic decision, that's a massive backfire. That makes no sense. Why would the devil want more people drawn to the kingdom? Like this is not one a one-off. I know several people like, you know, I used to be an atheist.

But now they're they're Christian after studying UFOs. But again, not from the perspective they think UFOs are demonic, but rather that they're physical entities, like real physical aliens that like God created on some other world. That seems to be a massive backfire if it's a huge deception. That makes no sense to me. You know, what happened to the whole, you know, you shall know them by their fruits. And the fruits that I've seen a lot of people working on this have actually decided

And to great stigma made fun of by their colleagues, you know, who are atheists and agnostic. Like that makes no sense to me. How can you explain that? Well it's like it's the Hugh Ross it's Hugh Ross. We had Hugh Ross on the show and Hugh famously his he found his faith, but but he's an astrophysicist because he looked at essentially the the vastness of the universe. And his only conclusion was is that there is a creator and that creator

story, the story of creation and the way that works lines up yeah only with the biblical narrative. And you go, that's really uh that's that in the same way as you're talking about is really really puts a r a monkey wrench or throws a wrench into the I this idea that that this is all a big deception, right? Like that if the people that dig into the science and And un you know, as the fore they get into it the more they say this is actually

makes me believe that there is a an intelligent design and a creator behind all of this. Otherwise I can't make any of this stuff work in my head. Right. And I I love that. I I think that's an important thing. Wherever you land on the UFO phenomena, it if it's causing people who are studying this to

to come to Christ and th there's something that that wouldn't be it wouldn't be right to be. It is weird. It's it's it's a weird thing. And I think we've debated this a lot on our show. I I I think it'd be great to get into like

more of the data that kind of proves these points. Um I'd love to get into that. Like what physically Yeah, what's going on with the stuff? How did you get Roswell craft? Yeah, how do how does that happen? How do you get actual pieces and then what are you doing with that? Yeah, so again it's it's all We can't prove it, you know, it hasn't been like carbon dated to nineteen forty seven.

But yeah, and I I I don't wanna talk about it too much before I give, you know, talk specifically about that and publish a paper. Sure. But I've got a a a a a fragment that's alleged to be from some kind of UAP crash. That doesn't mean it's not prosaic or human. Testing has to move forward. They're mundane and prosaic hypotheses. But I love the fact that there might be out there physical evidence.

that I can touch like like potential wreckage. Cause that to me is better than a blurry photo or video. And you know, I brought this out to Ryan. He's like, oh well, demons can make ash and this or whatever. I'm like, Really? Made with the same elements on the periodic table? I'm like That's a pretty huge exception. So then God would allow like good hearted scientists to be led astray by physical evidence that demons just made up that are made of like the same chemical elements.

that are found on earth. I'm like, really? Like that that no, that is too much of a stretch for me. And you mentioned actually the vastness of space. And one thing I wanted to point out, there's been a huge misconception. On yes, that huge space is vast, as I said myself, but then people use that to conclude that even if aliens exist, they could never get here. And this is extremely false.

And Father Martin's actually said this on the UFO episode of The Exorcist Files. And I wanted to reach through my phone and be like, no, like grab a hold of of Father Martin, be like, no, you are extremely wrong because. What everybody forgets. is relativistic effects. So actually length contracts and time dilates, which means that these vast distances are actually not that vast.

So for example, you asked about so what is some of the evidence I've looked at. So what and one one of my colleagues, Professor Kevin Pnut, published a paper. With some of the members of the scientific coalition. for UAP Studies publishes scientific paper in a peer reviewed journal. where he showed that some famous encounters like the Nimitz encounter, like my good friend, also a Christian Navy veteran, Gary Verhis, an outstanding guy that you guys

should get on a future episode actually to talk about the Nimitz encounter is is he wrote a my friend Kevin wrote a paper about the Nimitz encounter. And in it he shows that not only are the speeds and accelerations from some of these encounters, not only are they consistent with what we'd expect from a spacecraft. They're consistent with what we'd expect from a good spacecraft.

And the common misconception, and and Father Martin's very sadly, it broke my heart because he's a great guy and extremely smart, but he repeated this common misconception that, for example, it takes 150,000 years. To cross the galaxy, even if you could go the speed of light and you can't go faster than light. False, false, false, false, false. And the reason is because time warp.

And this is not a theory, this is not a hypothesis. We use this every day. Like GPS wouldn't work with Einstein's theory of relativity. So we know it's an absolute established scientific fact. for over a hundred years. So we know that time slows down as you approach the speed of life, which means that if you had the technology to cross these vast distances. So in the paper my friend Kevin um wrote, he points out It would only take six months.

To cross the entire Milky Way, not 150,000 years. The most remarkable thing about this is that everything I'm telling you is not new. We just don't teach students this. We do like until college or graduate school level. But this is not new. We've all known this since 1905. So this is not some new revelation or new scientific understanding. It's an extremely old and well-established one. And yet you'll hear even scientists

Like Neil deGrasse Tyson will go on YouTube and say, oh, vast distances and times. And sometimes I wonder, did he get hit did Neil deGrasse Tyson get hit in the head and forget basic physics that he supposedly should know? He has a PhD in physics. And so these vast distances are not so vast if you have an advanced technology.

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Well how how does that work? Can you explain can you break that down a little farther just for like us us dummies here? So I mean, the theory of relativity, right? I know that like it it's the idea of of bending space time. But can you t talk a little bit about how that would work? The technology would work to sort to

manipulate that though in in in theoretically? Like how how does that work theoretically? Like like the Nimitz craft. Like these things that are doing things that for us, we watch the video, we don't have any technology that can do that. And if there is an occupant driving that the mock speeds it's pulling would turn you into applesauce or whatever. So how does that Briefly for us non-physicists, how does that how does that work?

We don't know. And and so if I I can speculate that everything I could tell you is probably wrong. But and so then so then actually Ryan came back to me and goes, aha. So it's technologically impossible. And so I fired back with, okay. In two, I think it was two weeks before Wilbur and Orville Wright.

had their famous successful flight. The New York Times literally wrote, You can look this up, the New York Times, you know, beacon of truth. I'm saying that sarcastically, of course. Um, the New York Times said Air travel will never happen. It's scientifically impossible, maybe in a few million years. Few weeks later. Two weeks later, Wilbur and Orville Wright. Okay. Two weeks. It gets worse. The New York Times also once had an editorial that said rockets and space travel are impossible.

And then guess what happens? Sputnik. And then we land down on the moon and actually the New York Times did not issue a retraction until nineteen sixty nine. They literally wrote, Oh, we once had this editorial in the nineteen twenty that said it's impossible to reach the moon without dying and you'd never if you could do it you would never come back. Yeah, we regret the error.

And I could go on and on. Germs, atomic bomb. There was some general who or colonel who was also a chemist who said, we are wasting so much time building an atomic bomb. And he said, look, I speak as an expert in explosives. And it's like sentences like that that make you want to wonder, it's like, really? Are we still gonna make the same mistake again? And say just because I can't tell you right now on this podcast, oh, it requires this technology and this amount of energy. I don't know.

That doesn't mean we're not going to figure it out eventually. And that doesn't mean someone else who's possibly been around for There could be a civilization out there that's so many years older than ours. They've got it figured out already. Not through trial and error, but just because they've been around longer, so their technologies develop longer.

Yeah, and it's we're not even counting like wormholes and portals and all the other things that we hear. I'm not counting those things. I am not. I'm just saying relativistic travel just having some kind of fuel that we don't know yet rocket technology. You're talking about the UAP Mayflower. It just takes six months to get across the galaxy, you know? And and back in the day it took us three months to get across the

you know, one ocean. And so I mean, their technology has limits too. It's just way farther advanced than ours. And I think that's just hard for a lot of people to conceptualize. But um what I would say though, that we we've discovered on our show, basic, if you get into the UAP phenomena, you realize there's time issues with all of the encounters.

And even Bob Lazar says, you know, the ac the anti-gravitational technology uh is how it works and it's affecting time. It almost sounds like UAPs, in my opinion, are little many time machines. And they're not actually moving the way that we understand everything to move. It's like when are they, not where are they, you know? Well it's it's possible, but you don't even need any advance.

space-time warping. You don't need even need to go there. You don't need to go to faster than light, like it's a common misconception. Yeah. You can by traveling slower than the speed of light, you can cross the entire galaxy for a few months. Because not because of space time warping, which is another possibility. I'm talking about a more fundamental warping. So we can divide it into two categories.

There's we could call one category Einstein 1905, that's spectral activity, and Einstein 1916, which is general relativity. And what's remarkable is you don't even need the more advanced things. So so you asked me, so how how can you go through Mach 60lasonic boom? You don't even need to talk about space-time warping. You could be ionizing the air, you could be using plasma. There's there are more mundane explanations.

Then oh, it's something millions of years ahead of our current technology. It might only be something thousands or hundreds of years. Ahead of our current technology. You might not need any new laws of physics, quote unquote, but just clever engineering. Yeah. So, like in my example of airplanes. You got you you you guys know we knew we knew the fundamental principles of how to build an airplane back to the 1600s. Okay. Further back, if we count Da Vinci, now I'm not counting Newton.

So what took us so long? Why did it take us until the 1900s? And the reason is is because engineering is hard. So even if you know how to do something. that that doesn't mean you know how to transfer it from a piece of paper with math equations to reality. It took us several centuries for for centuries we knew how to build airplanes, but it took us centuries to get there.

Because even though we understood the physics, we did not understand the engineers. Yeah. And we we talk a lot about how the ancients, and we're, you know, obviously as we're Christians, so we b filter things for the biblical text and The things that we were taught by fallen angelic beings, whatever that means, wherever they came from.

We're all physical things like how to do this, how to do that, how to build this, how to how to defile yourself, how to mine metals and do all these other things that are physical. So it's like It just seems like there's another civilization somewhere else that that they're bringing ideas and thoughts and blueprints from somewhere else to here, but it's not here.

And then you have Christians who just wanna say nothing exists beyond Earth. It's all a mirage. It's all a it's all a fantasy. And I don't I don't understand How we get there particularly, but it seems like the better answer t is that there's there's an actual physicality to all of this. There are spirits. And I guess the the r the debate between you and the exorcists is like they're kind of in the spirit realm, like something that

lost its body, doesn't have a body anymore, does isn't physical anymore, but still is here. So what's the difference between a spirit being and maybe something piloting a UFO? And so you're trying to debate But you're talking about two different things. does that make sense like i'm Yeah, I think we're conflating a lot of different things. Yeah. And so I think that, like, for example, UFOs, UAP, call them what you will.

I don't think they're one thing. Yeah. There's plenty of misidentifications, there's plenty of hoaxes. There's atmospheric phenomena. You know, there's there's there's sprites, there's red lightning, there's uh ball lightning, there are so many mis th mis identifications. But as a result, people tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Because even if 99% of it is not real. Now, this thing about there's nothing beyond it, there's there's plenty. We have found so many, we have sent probes to distant. you know, planets, like why would the universe would be created as a fantasy or mirage? That makes no sense because God created the universe and Psalm 92, 15 says, the Lord is upright, he is my rock, and there is no wickedness in him. Why would God create fake things just to fake out?

scientists and have them waste their time studying. That makes no logical sense at all. When again you consider Psalm 9215, there is no wickedness in him. So God's not evil by definition of who he is. So why is he gonna create a whole bunch of fake planets and stars? Just to for what? Like that makes no li that that's just unethical immoral and God is not capable of being immoral. He's he's infinitely good. That makes no sense.

Yeah, we had Diana Pasoka sitting here with us and you brought her up earlier and she said she was taken to a crash site and held and held what she called frog skin. like a a uh a piece of something that that that didn't look act like anything she'd ever seen before and was purported to be a crash site for a UFO. So how do you come about that and then what is

No, without results, you don't tell us results up, but how do how do you begin to analyze that? Um how do you end up, Matthew Shadagas, end up being the guy that that that is that is looking at a at a at least what's what's believed to be a piece of something from a UFO? Well, because it's all accident and effort.

Actually I don't think it's entirely accident but I think I think that God guides guides our lives into certain directions. But it just took years of making connections and knowing the right people. So I just met like I said, I don't wanna reveal any names until after I publish everything um and and spoken with them first about findings, but I just I I I have I just after working in the UFO space for year after year after year.

Just make connections with the right people, frankly. And one of them was, you know, as a CEO of an aerospace company who also knew somebody who knew somebody. So again, we have to be very cautious. As I said earlier, I it's very hard to conclusively prove something is anomalous or strange. Right. How do I go about that though? Is the second half of your question, right? How do I go about testing? Well, this is where I apply the tools I know, where for example,

I'll give you one one way where we can determine whether something is extraterrestrial or terrestrial in origin. We can look at the what's called the isotopic ratios, because that's sort of like a a chemical fingerprint that tells us whether something's from Earth, Moon, Mars, or more distance.

And some distant part of the galaxy where the ratios of different isotopes within elements are different. It's not conclusive because we today have the technology to do isotopic enrichment from at least, you know, the nineteen forties. However, If you can simultaneously you know, for date or like carbon date something to like before humans have the technology to isotopically enrich things and the the isotopic ratios are wrong, then it's like, hmm, either it's alien or it's the most expensive.

hoax. You know, it that's those are the possibilities you're you're left with. And that's why I love, I feel I count myself extremely lucky. to be able to look at what's potentially physical evidence. Now I have to be clear, I've done this before and it's happened before. I'm like, hey, it's a UFO crash park. And I got so excited. I was told, oh, it's from the same site that Diana Pasulka's I like, oh my God, that's awesome. tested it and it was very obviously like

I mean a top secret US airplane from that era. It's still cool top it was a classified US airplane, but I'm like Yeah, these are the elements that are consistent with what we were using for top secret US airplanes at the time.

And so that was cool and that was able to determine that. But it's just like, you know, the people who work on Shroud of Turin, you know, there was an episode about that in the exercise files. It's like they're I'm using the same similar types of tools as as as as they did.

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So it's the same kind of tools we use to like that you know Father Martins loves relics and it's like yeah I this is so why I want to talk to him so badly. I'm like the same kinds of tools used to validate relics are similar to like the tools I would use to be like is this Earthly or is this extraterrestrial in origin? What do you think is very similar kinds of tools. What do you think is going on in their heart and mind to to to to not accept the scientific data?

Well who who they? They in general? Just like more of the uh you know, Father Martin's view. Like you know what I'm saying? More of the like because this is what gets emailed to us all the time. And so Yeah. Well number one is the number one is the misconception about the vast distances and the times it would take to cross them. It's the misunderstanding that it's the following misunderstanding.

You need to go faster than light to reach distant places and you can't go faster than light, therefore it's impossible. Yeah. The entire premise is wrong, like I said, because of time Time dilation, whereas you travel faster and faster, time slows down. And so if you had a craft that could go not faster than speed of light, but slower. but very close to it. So I'll give you an example. is that this example I give is like this is like

Two steps, very easy homework problem for like freshman sophomores in one of my classes, like basic uh relativity. So I asked the questi I asked my students the question like how long does it take to to get to the Andromeda Galaxy, which is two million light years away. If you traveled 0.06 meters per second slower, so very slightly slower than the speed of light, you do that in 50 years. Now two million years will have a lapse on Earth.

But fifty years for you. And so I think that's n misconception number one is this whole thing about not understanding physics that isn't even new. It's very, very old. Like I said, it goes back to nineteen oh five. We already had know about this for over a century. So it's not a new, new understanding. So that's number one.

And number two is I think then why wasn't anything ever stated? For example, there's nothing in the Bible about this, but I think either Ryan or Carlos Father Martin says this on the podcast themselves. Yeah, but there's no mention of of um of molecules or the planet Mars and they exist too. You know what I mean? Like it just it's not

The the the Bible's not meant to be a scientific document, but an ethical and and religious one. It doesn't have an exhaustive list of everything that exists in nature, in the universe, because it's kind of like Think of it as like and this goes back to like Old Testament versus New as we're like children.

And God's not just gonna dump information on everything us all at once because we're not ready to know everything all at once. That's so demanding that we are told about everything that exists is the equivalent. of a small child demanding of their parent to learn everything there is to know about, you know, being an adult at like age five that just not it's just not realistic. Yeah. And I think obviously we're not scientists and we're not smart enough to have these conversations. We just ask

pretty generic questions. But um we're sort of a conduit between, you know, the message bringers and the audience. And uh if you get in this space, you know there's time issues related with UAPs, UFOs. and sort of a nuclear interest and there's there's people who re report Fields not growing, personal injuries. They had almost as if they were exposed to something and they weren't wearing the lead jacket, you know, at the dentist's office. Something happened to them.

some physical uh damage because of this. Uh there's many stories in that space. So they're The idea that you're trying to prove that this, you know, this would be a very expensive hoax to pull off is interesting, but it's in line with all the other stories we hear. There's some nuclear part of this.

Well, um I think have you you guys had um Sallus on your show, right? Yeah, exactly. Um look i I have a hypothesis on that. And that my I have a very dark one though, which is um my crazy idea is that w this a traction of UAP uh this alleged attraction of UAP to like nuclear missile silos and sites could it this could be like a

Xeno anthropology class where it's like there's some racist like, look, check out the humans and look how they're, you know, working so hard towards killing themselves. It's like a class. It's like some kind of galactic class where it's like, here's an example of what you should not do. You know, don't blow yourselves up. And so I think again, this is very that that's my just very speculative, crazy idea, is that we're we're looking at some sort of like

xenoanthropology or exoanthropology, you know, what word we would use. It's like a it's like a class for like, you know, young aliens sort of ETs like, look, like don't do this. You know, like this there don't like build weapons of mass destruction. To kill yourselves with. And there are also of stories that again, they're just stories. So it's so hard to confirm these without physical evidence.

But my colleague Kevin and others I've heard I've collected these the these stories and Sir Robert Sallas has has as well of like silos being turned on and off. Including on. Not just off, but also on. Yeah. Where it's like in ten seconds World War Three starts and then right before it's like it shuts itself back off again. And I told my wife about this, actually she came up with this idea, I think, not me. That like it's kinda like

To me, that's like playing with the claws of a kitten to show them who's boss. You know what I mean? Turn them on and off. It's like somebody messing with us saying, like, we can turn your most powerful weapons on and off. And you can't Do anything. That could be right though. It could actually be legitimately correct. I think I think what you're talking about though is very hard for Christians because

You take the control of the narrative out of their hands and say, other things can exist. And that's very a it it sets off an alert in some in people and they're very afraid of considering. A class? Other species from somewhere else are care to have a class? What does that even mean for my faith? What does that mean for the gospel? What does that mean for Jesus? And they they they short fuse, they freak out, and they say it's all demonic, it's all demonic deception.

Nothing to see here. And that that's a thing it's it creates that fear in them. That's what I think. Paul Thigpen's book. That I mentioned earlier, he's a friend of Diana's as well. Um, he he's written all about this that this wasn't a problem hundreds of years ago. Sure. This is a new problem.

Where hundreds of years ago it was like, sure, yeah, whatever. Like Saint Augustine wrote about this and lots of early church fathers and thinkers like very few people used to have a problem with that. And I actually think there is one thing That everyone is missing. I think a lot of people have who have that reaction. I'm gonna anger a lot of people by saying this. A lot of people who had that reaction are having the same

Pride, sin of pride, as Satan himself did. Where, you know, there's this idea that one of the reasons why, you know, we don't know for sure, of course, but why Satan rebelled is like, what? You're making these humans? What the heck? And I feel like when people have this reaction is because they think, well We're the most important creation. There can't be other things. And it's like, did you miss the part of the gospel where Jesus emphasized humility?

And talked about be meek and humble of heart. So there could be a great opportunity here because I'm thinking if there's some, you know, there could be some, you know, alien race out there and the purp one of the purposes of their existence is really to remind us To be humble because I think we are so prideful sometimes. We think that humans are the best and the greatest.

And actually Even though it seems like that from Genesis 1, but if you take the entire Bible as a whole, you see there are plenty of times that God reminds us we are nothing without. And we are nothing without Christ. You know, whatever happened to like dust may uh, you know, Lent has just started, you know, like dust you are, and into dust you shall return. Right. And it's like, yes, there's heaven and all that stuff, but we're also reminded.

of their unimportance of humans. I mean, look at Job when God says, like, who are you? To question me. Where were you when I created the universe? And so like I feel like we that many people fall into the sin of pride that, you know, oh humans, oh you know, we're like God's Ferrari, right? There was the be-all end all.

Do they forget also that like Father Martins and and Orion get into this all the time? Do they forget the fact that an angel or de or demon, because they're fall uh you know, a fallen angel? You can do a calculation faster than the smartest human or the our best supercomputer. Yeah. Did they forget that? Like that we they're already God has already created things.

Way smarter than us. Yeah, and I like I mean Matthew. Right. It says like that we were created a little lower than the angels. And every angelic encounter in the Bible is like one of fear. They say, Don't be afraid, you know. And then if it's you know, and don't worship me if it's not the angel of the Lord, which we we've kinda unpacked here is Perhaps a pre incarnate Christ. Like so you have these things that are much higher or a little higher in the sense of like

And super ancient. Like, you know, you were quantifying some of these UFO encounters as there's hoaxes, there's natural phenomena, and then there's a slice that is that is une is sort of the unexplained phenomena that lends itself to

to the study, right? To trying to figure out. Um I think on our show we figured th there's so many encounters are are negative, if you will. These are these are terrifying. Um, you have the abduction phenomena. You've got stuff like like the Gary Nolan stuff where people have encounters and they are injured. And then there's a few that are positive. This the the Gary Stearman.

story from one that we had on our show where he was saved by a UFO that sh that showed up and guided his plane and also a time incident as you talked about. Um What are your thoughts on that? I mean why why do you think it's a little bit some possible? Yeah, why does it seem to be overwhelmingly negative in in in a sense as far as the experiences? That's a great question.

There's actually it I would I would push back that's not overwhelmingly neg negative. There's actually a huge amount of positive too. If you read books by John Mack and I got into a fight with Ryan Bathail Remail about this, I'm like D are you just making assumptions or did you actually read any of the books? Yeah. If you read any of the books, there's actually plenty of positive. I'll grant you with many of the negative.

Yeah, absolutely. There could be something demonic. Absolutely. However, there are other possible explanations that have to be considered. Number one, if there are other species out there that are flesh and blood, physical like you and me. There are good ones and there are evil ones probably. Just like we have in the human race. I mean, like why what like you can have physical beings that are evil. You know what I mean? Like humans that are just

extremely evil. Yeah. Right. That we have examples of. And so I think that's one that's one thing you have to consider. And when we do that, we talk about as sort of like those that potentially are loyal to the king, to the king of heaven, and those that are not. Right? If if we're to if we're to

Take this analogy, then talk about the God is in control and the kingdom of heaven is a real thing and God reigns over the kingdom of heaven. In the same way that we have people that follow Jesus and follow follow the ways of of of God and Jesus, then you have those that don't, right? And and and I think maybe that's

That's an interesting idea too, and like in this sort of galactic understanding of the universe. And there's also people say there's a lot of false Jesuses. So w what are those things? Yeah. I mean that's what are those basically. That's the whole like UFO stuff with how does that work? Well what I think is that if aliens are real and they exist

if they if they exist. Like I said, I'm not gonna s sit here before you and claim we have conclusive evidence e because we don't. But if they are if they are real, then I would say That they are also made in the image and likeness of God and have free will, which means some of them can be evil because they might also have free will. And so I think that there's that's that's one issue, but another is ontological shock.

Because you're not you don't think that aliens are real and suddenly you're, you know, like in some of these cases, that's why there may be some negativity. It's not necessarily because there's something fundamentally evil or anything like that, but rather we need to consider the possibility of you're just shocked by something you didn't think you knew existed.

And actually one of m I I think that all these stories of abduction, I tend to stay away um from them because I think that um this is where I might have some significant overlap with Father Martin's where like and Ryan, well I'm like, yeah, you know, a lot of that

could be spiritual and also mental health. But I think there's a tiny sliver with physical evidence. I think you guys have had on the show people talk about alleged alien implants and things like that. I'm like, come on, we got physical evidence. That that that is I think something else that's happening. Yes. Well, I s you know, the the show's blurry creatures because there's there's not a lot of physical evidence for all these things, right?

The way you can prove like a Sasquatch is out there is devoting yourself to it and then just thousands and thousands of stories. And after a while you just say that the sheer scientific number that all these people are lying. There's you you shape some sort of evidence, but then you you bring on people who have the physical evidence. They have a a footprint that isn't fake. They have some hair. They have some things to kind of give.

you know, kind of take it out of the blurry space and make it that's there is data here, right? And so you get craft. I mean, we had a amazing story on ours about a a trapper who had a piece of the Roswell crash. You know, and this this Mormon missionary

you know, was talking to to his buddy and He was trying to convert him. Yeah, he was trying to convert the trapper and the trapper's like, I got something you can look at in my shed, you know? And it and it was just like a bizarre afterthought in these letters that this this guy was writing home to his parents. But this trapper had a piece, it was a big piece, couldn't dent it, couldn't scratch it, had weird markings on it, and he was on the line in Roswell where this crash happened.

And this whole story and then he goes on this like seventies like uh radio show and then he ends up MIA, just like a lot of these guys do magically. Yes. If I wish people would just yeah, if people can save physical pieces, they can send it to me or another scientist says we c I can we c I can run tests to show whether something is just terrestrial and they misidentify it.

Which of very often happens. Yeah. Or something is legitimately anomalous and I got the tools to say whether it's probably one thing or another. But I'm just saying those stories exist. But there's so many. Yeah, there's so many of them. And it after a while you're like, Okay, I wasn't there. I didn't see this, but you you look at the data behind the data and you you have to sort of form some kind of hypothesis from something.

You know, yeah, there's historical examples of this though. Yeah, and I think yeah. I think that people just think the demons just do everything. And it's like, well, people are seeing sa a Sasquatch and they're describing a a actual thing and it's always the same thing. So if demons can just poof make aliens and poof make UFOs and to deceive us, then why aren't we seeing

A buzz a billion bizarre things. You know what I'm saying? Like it exactly. Why is it a s why is it particular phenomenon that happens over and over and over? Exactly. Wha why why does science work at all? And it the reason why it works is because God is good and He's a lawmaker and a law giver. And this was just mentioned like i I think R Ryan mentioned this in w one of the episodes he was on on your show, is there are physical laws.

God created a universe that's logical and rational and if what everything you're just saying is true True, then why doesn't like tomorrow I wake up and gravity is turned off? Yeah, exactly. Because God let the de just screw God lets demons just.

screw around. He doesn't because there are very strict laws. Why does conservation of mass work? Why does conservation of energy work? Why do all of my experience work, experiments work in physics, chemistry, biology, like why is the universe a logical, rational place?

Why is it mathematically structured? And I think because it was created to have a beautiful, understandable structure. So yes, the universe is mysterious, but We have been permitted with our rational minds to penetrate those mysteries and be able to understand the universe. So if the universe just has random crap every day, like that doesn't make logical sense. Again, I'm going back to Psalm 92, 15. There is no wickedness.

in the Lord. God created a universe of non-deception, full of things that we can go, huh, that's interesting. And we can study the natural world. and look at its beauty and look at its underlying mathematical structures. So yeah, I think this is a very significant point. Is not everything is just A deception. is there are legitimately interesting physical, non-spiritual things out there.

It's like, you know, I just saw Hamlet with my wife with my wife this weekend. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are even dreamt of in your philosophy. And that's that that that is frightening for a lot of people. And also if you travel the world you see the European cars, you see the Japanese cars, you see the American cars, and when it comes to the UFO phenomenon

You see different types of UFOs. You see the s the classic disc because they're not all one thing. I know. Because they're different things. It feels like they come from different places. I like the cigar ones perfectly. Some of these look like yeah, some of these are just bizarre looking. Some of them look like they have thousands of metal sh points sticking out of them. I I But you know why would it all be the same if aliens are real, even if it's just one species

Our cars are all different shapes, like you just said. Why do we expect them to open like we just keep forcing our expectations on the world? And I but you see little like people will send us photos and videos and some of it's AI, some of it's fake, whatever. But every once in a while you're like, well, that is that is interesting. And that I would never build anything like that.

Humans don't build anything like that. That is bizarre. Some of them look like these. Well, except for the cyber truck, but it's a little joke. But I'm just saying it it it it's Blade Runner. That's from Blade Runner anyway. So I I had the same idea. I saw a cyber truck on the road and I wanted to say You know what Blade Runner called and wants his dystopian future track. I think this is a huge aside, but I think Elon actually

Cyber truck stuff comes from Blade Runner, which is phenomenal. Anyway. Well but then I I then I realized it's two thousand twenty five. We are living in that disturbance. I'm still waiting for my flying cars. I think maybe my last question on this front

Matthew would be like, you know, as you analyze this this this purported wreckage, if you come to the conclusion that this is extraterrestrial and publish that, what do you how do you think this changes the conversation uh as far as like for as a scientist around applying physical science to To something that uh let's just hypothesize that it comes out and it and it it returns isotopes and whatnot. That those those sort of readings that are not

that don't make sense. What does that say? What do you think? I mean, we've talked about what it says and say, but for you as a scientist and it's published, what is how does that change the conversation that we should be having around this? Well sadly, this may disappoint you. It won't change anything. And the reason is is because nobody will listen. Because

And and I I'll I get it from all sides. All sides. Yeah. Because I'm I'm stuck in this area where scientists will say this is all nonsense. And why are you even religious? I was on one podcast where it was supposed to be about UFOs and then it went off the rails. They're like, Really? You're a scientist?

And you believe there was this magic guy named Jesus who rose from the dead and then just turned into like a one-hour attack against me. It's on YouTube. And I can send you guys a link. And actually if you go to the comments, I was shocked. And usually comment sections on the internet are like brutal. Really awful. Yeah. Literally all the top comments all stood up for me.

We're like, dude, you know, leave the guy alone. Like what the heck? There were comments like, Really, would it be so bad if everybody loved their neighbor and prayed for their enemies? Would that be such a bad world to live in? Like people defended and like defended Christianity.

in the comments. But yeah, I've been I get first I get attacked by scientists who are atheists who are like this is all BS both UFOs and Jesus and religion. They're like, that's all why are you wasting your time, Matthew? You're too smart for that. And then I then we've got the other side where people are like, Yeah, it's all it's all demonic and why are you wasting your time? And so I get it from both sides. You know what I mean? Like I just get like attack, attack, attack.

And so you're back to your original question what will it change? Nothing, sadly. What would change if more people like me? Step forward with physical evidence and test physical evidence and show, look, there is evidence for something anomalous, potentially extraterrestrial. So will my will my work make a difference? No. But will the second or third person make a difference? Maybe. You see what I mean? You get the ball rolling. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that there's like a conversation before the conversation. I think that's a lot of what we do,'cause obviously we can't bring the science like you can, but it's sort of it's sort of we started with Sasquatch to get people's minds like, Oh, I don't what could possibly exist? And we proved it scientifically.

through the show, like, hey, let's bring on the Bigfoot scientist. Let's prove that these footprints, you know, that people send us these things aren't fake. They're not fake. Right. And we brought on the the best foot expert in the world saying Based on the evidence. Bigfoot guy. Yeah. Yeah. And so you s you start there and then you move into these complicated topics of like, we have metals from somewhere else.

They are building things that are light like movie at the speed of light. You know, these are hard concepts. It's it's easy to start with a Sasquatch and then move towards that. But in our show it's linear. Eventually you get to the weirdest of the weird. And I would say this. It's hard for people because if this exists, then literally anything can exist. And I I just can't. I can't accept that as a Christian. I I think that's a lot of the faith thought process.

And that's scary. You weren't saying that as yourself. You were paraphrasing. I'm not saying that's not well, obviously doing this show. I don't know I don't know anything at this point. Five years in It's like, dude, I don't know. I have no idea. And the pro and usually I will say Matthew, the the answer is usually all the above. Like Are they spiritual? Yeah. Are they physical? Yeah. Are they coming from somewhere else? Yeah. Are they in the earth? Yeah. Oh yeah.

They're doing all of it. Yeah, I think we're merging different things together. It's like the whole like you guys are saying the other episodes, the whole animal kingdom of possibilities to thrones and dominions, principalities and powers. I feel like we all we don't know the entire classification scheme. And we were not told it because it's not relevant to our salvation history and our our like morals and ethics. It's not necessarily

all relevant, we didn't need to know it yet. Right. Yes. And so that's why it wasn't revealed, told us because it wasn't needed to live a good life. It's not sal it's not salvic, right? It's not a salvation issue. This is what we always get to. It's it's something about the world, but it's not necessarily necessary for you to to know it. I actually have a I have so everyone always asks though.

This hasn't come up yet, but everyone always asks, Well, okay, if aliens are real, why don't they just like land and And and and say like here we are. Valiant Thor, right? Valiant Thor. They do subtles. Yeah. Valiant Thor, yeah, I know that's there's that story. But actually this is related to the Valiant Thor uh legend actually. Is you know what my hypothesis is? I actually came up with this before I heard about Valiant Thor.

is I came up with this on my own with my and I told my Navy veteran friend, Gary, Gary Farice, like whom I said, you guys, you guys gotta get on this show. But he um he's Christian and he's the witness to the Nimitz UFO encounter. But you know what I told him? I'm like, you know what? I have this hypothesis.

Okay, what if aliens are real? And what if, okay, they can't reveal themselves because of the chaos this would cause in our society? Because what if we ask them, all right, do you believe in God? And they go yes. And we ask them about their religion. And what if they're like Oh yeah, Jesus, we know all about that.

What would happen to all the world religions that aren't Christianity? Like there would be a global war and meltdown. So my hypothesis is the reason why aliens don't reveal themselves because they're like They're like, Oh yeah, of course yeah.

We worship the same God as as as the Christians do. Why? Is there a problem? And then the every other religion will go, What the bleep and we'll have World War Three. You know what I mean? So that's my personal speculation. Or or Matthew, or the or they are in rebellion to God and they still have to submit or have to recognize that Jesus is on the throne. And that too All kinds of possibilities. Yeah, all kinds of possibilities. It's just like it's it's like

You know, who is the King of Kings? And y they have to answer that question as Jesus. That is a very big problem for the kingdom of darkness, right? That that yeah, that's a that's it's interesting. Uh to me this is the most interesting conversation to have because You know, if you grow up in the church, you realize the Bible is full of, you know, sorcery, necromancy, gods, fights, you know, um ancient technology, floods, wars.

Spiritual beings coming to help us, save us, appearing, clouds of fire, all the things, uh pillars of fire. And we we explain it all away. We don't we don't dive into that. It's almost like we don't believe any of that stuff happened in the church. That's kind of mythology and maybe they were like doing some drugs. But it's like, no. No some no, something's actually happened, but I think I have a little bit of a controversial view on this. I think a lot of what We call supernatural today.

is natural, obeys God's laws, but we just haven't figured out how it works yet. So I think we a lot of what we think is paranormal or supernatural, like Bigfoot, for example, might just be a hairy ape and might just be a physical creature and is not supernatural or paranormal with great hair.

Yeah, with great lettuce. Yeah. But I think there's a lot of combination here where there are certain things that are physical and some things that are all of the above. Like you said earlier, all of the above. I love that. Yeah, and I I think when it comes to to the UFO conversation, we just have to kind of to to plug it in there and

And and kick it around and debate it and understand that these elements that you're testing, you know, the the metals involved here stick stick around and linger. We can pick'em up. We can take'em into a lab. We can look at'em and say, You know, and and Bob Lazar talks about that element one fifteen. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like what is You know, what is the metal that they use and uh what have you learned about particular that part of the the what they make these things out of?

Well, as I said, I haven't learned anything yet because I don't know if even of what I have is is is real as opposed to, for example, the first thing I tested was secret airplane. I have to tell you though, this is going to probably annoy and upset some of your viewers. I'm very skeptical of Bob Lazar's story. I'm all in on the like, you know, as a UFO conspiracy and crash retrievals. Absolutely. Sure. But as a physicist, a lot of what Bob Lazar says makes no sense.

It makes sense superficially, but as a scientist, I'm like, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. So like Element 115 was already discovered many years ago. I think in Russia, it has none of the properties he claims. And so my theory is. That that yeah, B Bob Lazar sure he was involved.

But I'm very skeptical he's actually a scientist. I feel like he was employed as like not a scientist, overheard some stuff, and misunderstood it. And I know that angers a lot of, you know, true believers, but here's the thing. I'm just out to find the truth. And I feel like there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there.

And and I I just look at where's the the physical evidence because a lot of these things are like a trust me bro story, which I know you guys do on the show, but like I need the physical evidence. And so the whole one fifteen thing, I'm like The real one fifteen is radioactive and decays in a fraction of a second.

And I haven't heard a an explanation from Bob that makes sense as to why he can get around that. So so yeah, a lot of what he says make doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. Do I believe there's a secret program? Absolutely. But I I don't know if like Bob's for real and he was really part of it. I'm very, very skeptical. So that's I'm gonna

They get angry emails and angry comments now. But you know what? I'm used to them. They're coming for you. I don't think you are saying anything that people don't say in this space. Um I think you take take the good with the bad. Nobody on our show agrees with anybody else. I actually appreciate the the opposite view of things, like Father Martin saying w what he thinks about this phenomenon, and I'm like, well

Actually, in the archives of the Vatican, there are documents. So it's not a modern phenomenon. It's an ancient phenomenon. And and and None of us know all of the data. None of us can like so Bob knows a piece of it, a part of it, and that's okay. Like he's making theories, maybe he's filling in holes, or maybe he's misguided on some parts of it.

Just like you like we get misguided often on our show trying to trying to figure out what's going on in these spaces, you can't get it all right. But you know, over time, I will say there's a few things, and my last question will be.

or or statement or or kind of want to talk about is, you know, a lot of Christians email us and say, I have been abducted. It's not a good experience. Nobody will listen to me. Nobody will believe me. Thank you for talking about these things. Cause that I've been suffering my whole life dealing with this and I've slowly pieced together I'm an abductee. And it's nice to have Christians being and willing to talk about these things. And it feels um like an important part giving voice.

to people who have this is like spiritual abuse in some way. And they It there it's like um it's hard enough to say a human is abusing me, then let alone something that doesn't exist is abusing. You know what I'm saying? Like that's a big part of the conversation we have here. And I think giving that Giving the credibility to those people is is worth it in my opinion to have this conversation.

So in in my opinion, like with the abduction story, look, they get really dark. There's stories of alleged rape, you know, and and f and Father Martins and Ryan went into that a little bit. And and it's dark. And it doesn't seem good or healthy. Yeah. And so but the to the my view is Is is again is is skeptical, but I don't make fun of people. I'm not gonna say, Oh, it's just mental illness, you made it up because

What do I know? And this goes back to humility, is maybe there is something real happening. And so, but the way the my point of view would be like. I want to find out then and help that person and get the evidence. Is it physical? Can I collect physical evidence? If it's spiritual. So to me it's very simple. Does it go away in the name of Jesus? Yes, no. Yes, okay, it's probably demonic. No?

Okay, then let's gather physical evidence. Could these be flesh and blood beings, but aliens, not humans like us? I wanna I wanna get to the truth. Because I believe, like you guys do, there is a truth out there, a side a truth with a capital T, not just moral truth as we talk.

In Christianity, there's a scientific truth that can't contradict each other. There is a truth out there. I want to know the truth. If someone's telling me a story and it really happened, they're not mentally ill, they're not making it up. Let's listen to them and but not just listen. I want to also help. Let's take it to the next level and figuring out, figure out what is afflicting them. What type of thing is it? And do we address it with the tools of physical science?

And Ryan and Father Martin's always talking about this? Or do we address it with a different set of tools because it's something spiritual? I love it. Thank you. We appreciate this conversation. And we're gonna continue in the after show talking about dark matter now, but

Thank you for coming on the podcast and uh just talking about these things. I think it's like uh for us, it's obviously we can't get into the the deep part of the, you know, the physics and the uh the science behind it is as much as you can with your colleagues, but, you know, we we think it's an important conversation to have, so

Shadagas. Shadagas. Yeah. So if our if our listeners want to like find the work you've done, I know you've got some published papers. Yeah. Um, and also some of the things you're working on. I know you work with UAP Expedition.org and and and doing some other things. Where where do they find the things you're doing, Matthew? Um so they can connect and then as Nate said, we get to the after show, your day job.

You you look and search for dark matter. What is that? We're gonna get into that. And maybe even talk a little about Skinwalker Ranch on the other side. So if you remember. Enjoy this extended part of our after show. And if you're not, you can you can check out a memberships on Blurry Creatures dot com slash members. But Matthew, where where can our mem our listeners find uh you and connect with the work you're doing?

It's extremely easy to find me since my last name is so unique. You literally stick my last name into any search engine like Google and you'll find everything I've done. You'll find contact information for me. It's really, really easy. So simple. The only exception is So also include my first name. Um, you know, Matthew. Hopefully your your listeners won't have this problem. You can't believe the number of times people spell Matthew with one T. I'm like.

Okay, have you ever cracked open a Bible? It's Matthew with two T's. You know, like the apostle, like the tax collector, like give me a break. So it's Matthew with two T's because if you don't do that, you'll find my sister because she's famous. She's actually an actress. And she actually was in Mrs. Mazel. She played the part of Zelda, she was also in the Sopranos.

So if you just put Shadagis, you'll find Matilda, my sister. So you need to include my first name, obviously is an exact phrase. Yeah. But then you'll find everything I've done. You'll find how to contact me, how to find me. Just put in Matthew Shadagi.

Let's go. Well, thank you for coming on our show. Thank you for uh letting a couple dummies ask you some some some basic questions and thank you for trying to explain it in layman's terms to us. Uh stick around for the after show and uh check out uh Matthew's work and good And good luck with documenting this and and your papers and and pushing these uh the data forward and helping the scientific community accept some of these harder truths to swallow. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you for having me. Let's go.