Zuckerberg's $71B Wipeout and Apple's Quiet Influence

much the metaverse weighs on that loss. This hour plus how apple is quietly backing an association that brands itself is giving a voice to small business APP developers. They says. Big Tech comes under increasing scrutiny in Washington, and climate week is now underway in New York City. We're gonna take a look at one tech company helping other businesses fight climate change by taking a harder look at their own carbon footprint. I want to bring in Brent Thille

of Jeffreys. Brent, we were just talking earlier about the big personal cost this has come when it comes to mark Zuckerberg's wealth. Um, you know what? Are you gonna realize? What are you going to decide if this pivot was really worth it? It's still years out. Emily, I think they've said the road to the men versus going to take, you know, multiple, multiple years. And it's not just facebook, it's the whole technico system that's gonna drive this forward.

So this isn't going to be an overnight success. And then remember you have the the economy, which is pointing back. The first thing companies do when the macro economy gets tougher as they cut their AD dollars. So all social media, snap, twitter, facebook, you go across the board. Right they're all feeling the pain. As a global macro dims, you're going to see less ad dollar flow. So there's a double whammy right now.

The metaverse investment combined with the headwind of of the macro and and I think for many in tech right now it's a it's it's a tough road ahead. Obviously a lot of the stocks already embedded a lot of the bad news, but what we're finding in this market is that the more bad news that keeps coming, these stocks really aren't embedding ahead of time. They continue the drift lower, and that's across tech. This isn't just a Meta issue. So that continues to be a big drag

for tech in the in the short term. DO THE MEDICINE CONSIDER SPINNING OFF businesses like Instagram, for example, where there's just seemingly potentially a more reliable future profit engine? I don't think spinning is gonna change anything. I think, you know, many of asked on Amazon, why Dodn't they just spend any of the US off? And ultimately you

don't want to. You know the analogy if you don't want to lose your star student in your household because it helps other other kids in the house right so if you think about either of us and Amazon or, for for facebook with with Instagram, it's their star right now. So I don't think they necessarily want to lose the star at this point. I don't think that's a a

primary driver. At this point. It's a it's a possibility and certainly you can make the case, you know, for many, many tech comes that they could consider that at this point. But again, I think what we're dealing with is a global text storm that's impacting everyone and this isn't going to change, you know, anything in the short term. Investors Right now are out of the space. They want to see signs of recovery and and so I think this is a broader topic that goes beyond just just just facebook.

But I don't I don't think in instagram split off is in the works right. But what is apple, Amazon, Microsoft, alphabet? What do they have that Meta doesn't have? Amazon's got a powerhouse and software. When you think about either of us, it's their profit engine, it's their get starts of growth and it's the most durable piece of the business. And and so why would you want to lose that business and spend it off? We can see it, we know the numbers. It's embedded in the business. We can see it.

I think the challenge for for Instagram is we don't know all the exact numbers and so that's what's hard to ascribe the value forward and some of the parts. And so I think that that is the difference that Amazon for Microsoft, you know many of their clouds are intertwined, between the operating system and the cloud azure office. A lot of these clouds are intertwined. They're not going to spend many a talk when they spend the entertainment business off.

I think they're pretty clear they're keeping it. So I don't think we're going to see a big shake up in terms of spinoffs because the market's gone down. This is a global macro pullback. The tech industry has to to to you know whether the storm, if you will, in the short term, and I think many of the multiples have already been been impaired Um. So perhaps we can see it at some point, but that's not really been a question we've been getting from investors at this point.

I think the number one question is when does this thing turn around? And I think many still believe we can be in for a wild ride for tech into early twenty three, before technology comes really acknowledge the weakness

in the overall global environment. Many have have not. They have not taken down guidance, they have not lowered the bar, and until the bars lowered, no investor wants to jump in the pool until they know the pools say so, Brett, we've got our big Bloomberg Tech siment coming up in London and we're gathering some content for our markets live blog.

I have a question for you for that. Do you believe in the metaverse and do you believe it will change how businesses and people interact with each other in two years that's the time frame? Yes or no? No, do you know? I think it's gonna be longer out. I think it's gonna take time for the rest of the year. Go ahead. Yeah, I think that that this is a multi year journey. And and remember it's, you know, this is the remaking the Internet. It's it's the remaking

of these experiences. It's, you know, ways that we can engage are as in business. Is the way that doctors and patients can engage as the way that the contractors and their their clients getting engage on on on the site. I mean there there is elements of the menams today that that that makes sense, but I think it's so long ways out. Often, I think when the investors here a new a new wave is coming, they suddenly throwing on their model and think it's going to be immediate overnight.

I'm I'm very bolish about the opportunity said, but I'm actually think the opportunity is gonna take longer to come into the fold. UH, and they'll take it'll take time. That that's it'll take longer than two years first to really see this in a big way. All right, Brett, Phil Jeffrey's Tech Sector Leader Brett, always going to have you with us. Thank you for stopping by. Thank you. Now the major cinching ever closer. You might be able

to bet on them and make real money. It has been years in the making, and now the CFTC is weighing a plan that could let people place as much as twenty thousand dollars on which political party will control Congress. That's the proposal from the predictions market operator cal she, the first regulated exchange for trading on events. It's Co founder and CEO, Tarik Manstor, joins me now. So why do you want to get into election betting, CARC? It's

a great question, emily, and thanks for having me today. Um, so, election markets, or elections more broadly, are the single, one of the single biggest sources of economic risk of the country. And going back to calcy's mission, our mission is democratizing access to hedging tools, basically tools and financial instruments that allow people in small businesses to hedge risks that relate to their day to day there's nothing that exposes people

in individual businesses to risk like an election. So that's how we're going for it. You could place as much as twenty five Tho dollars on which party wins Congress. That's a lot of money. Talk to me about how you think this plays out. Say this gets approved ahead of the mid terms. It's actually a very interesting, uh point. Um. So I'll go back a little bit to the history

and how how we started CALCI so Um. You know, one of the idea came from one of my time at Goldman in sen where we actually structured derivative or exotic products that allowed big institutions to hedge election risks. These products were trading and the hundreds of millions, sometimes billions of dollars. Right. So, when you compared to that is actually quite a small number, Um, when you compared to to sort of the big amounts are currently and

at the time and currently being traded on elections. You know, the hedging needs of people and businesses are big. You know, right now we're starting with a smaller sub set of the population, which is individual and small businesses, with smaller hedging needs, and we felt like an appropriate limit to

to basically go for ahead of the mid terms. There's a broader Philical, philosophical question at play here, which is do you think betting on elections is good for democracy and could it influence the democratic process at all in a negative way? It's a great question. So, you know, any financial innovation since you know, I would say, dawn of time had had ethical considerations. Right Insurance, when it

came in, it was like, Oh, is this? This? Is it okreated to bet on human lives, as the insurance is very important today, it was the same thing with great futures at the time in dres let's talk about elections. Elections are actually very broadly traded in democracies like the UK, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia, without any evidence at all of any sort of negative impacts. We've also had the platforms like predicted, which for eight years in the US, have

a lot of people to trade on elections. Also no clear evidence of bad or negative impact. On the contrary, the things that we've seen, and you know this is why, you know, our proposal has been getting a lot of support and positive comments from organizations, economic economic professors and academics and others. What we've seen is that the markets are used because there is source of truth Um about what is actually happening with the mid terms and with polling.

Average accuracy decreasing over the last ten years. This is a mechanism that allows us to actually get more informed, allow people to get more informed about what actually is

about to happen and would allow to reduce polarization. Actually, one interesting comment that I want to mention is from Professor Jason Furman at Harvard, who under, who serve under the Obama Administration and talked in this comment letter about how the administration under Obama used these markets to inform public policy and forecast different outcomes based on the decisions they were making. Interesting. So you think this would be better than polls for democracy? I think. I definitely think

this can be better than polls. And actually, you know, people don't need to believe me. They can see. The proof is in the putting Um. One example is our inflation markets over the last year have outperformed the economists survey well pretty much nine out of the last ten times, and so these markets are more accurate, accurate than polls, because in polls people can say anything and obviously the samples can be biased, etcetera, and we're seeing that with

the elections. You know, the polls are contradicting each other and other things, whereas with the marketplace, like any financial marketplace, people have skin in the game and they're more incentivized to say the truth, which makes these markets essentially more accurate than any other alternatives. Now, one of your competitors, predicted, had an application for elections betting that, I believe, was

rejected by the CFTC. What makes you think the CFTC is going to approve yours and what kind of questions have they been asking you? It's a great question. Actually, that company was innate X in two thousand and twelve Um and I think you know, over the last decade

things have changed. A lot of the assumptions of the commission had made at the time have been sort of invalidated, but a lot of the activity that has been happening over the last ten years on the platform predicted, which has shown that actually none of the negative consequences that would come from these markets would happen and the contrary, these markets are in the public interest because of this forecast that they're bringing to the marketplace and because they're

because they're allowing people and businesses to hedge risks that tie them to the elections and industries like energy, healthcare, climate and other types of industries. All right. So if this gets approved, when do you think that happens and and what are the odds? That's a great question. Um. So the CFC set to make a decision by October. Um, things are trending in the right direction. The common period and the comment letters have been overwhelmingly positive towards this proposal.

Things have changed, you know. I'm going to quote a professor of Commonstrom that talks about this in an article where he says that investors are ready, the public is ready. It's really a question about whether regulators are ready. Um,

I can all talk specifically about the odds. We're going through the regulatory, regulatory process, but I do hope that regulators already and we'll be ready to go, at least on the country side, once this get approved, and give us a sense of just how big the call sheet platform is today and how much bigger you think it can get, you know, by expanding into some of these additional areas. So, as you know, we've been launched for a little less than a year and I really feels

like we're just getting started. We've listed over four thousand markets so far, so I would say we're probably the fastest, or definitely the fastest, derivers exchange in terms of listening markets. Uh, this last month we've reached ten million contracts traded on the exchange and we've been going really fast. Obviously, with the upcoming elections, these numbers are going to, you know, go up by fewers of magnitude. So really excited for

what's ahead. All right, well, we'll be watching call sheet co founder and CEO, Tark Man stor. Thank you for joining us. While instacar reportedly plans to focus this I po on selling employee shares instead of raising capital for itself, according to The Wall Shereet Journal, Insta car executives have told perspective investor they don't plan an issue many new shares in the public offering. The company provides online grocery

shopping services. And coming up, we're gonna take a deep dive into apple's influence over a trade group that represents APP developers and how it's lobbying agenda tracks very closely with that of Apple. What does it mean? That's next? This is Bloomberg. The APP Association brands itself as the leading voice for thousands of APP developers around the world. In fact, however, the vast majority of its funding comes from apple and the iphonemaker plays a eminent behind the

scenes role in shaping the group's policy positions. BLOOMER's emily burr mom has been diving deep into this and joins us now for more so emily first of all talked to us why this APP Association and understanding its role in the broader Washington lobbying ecosystem matters. I think that Um, the APP Association and Apple's power over the group is representative of a larger trend in UH lobbying by the

big tech companies. As they come under greater scrutiny from Washington, they're pouring more and more money into these you know, nonprofits, quote unquote grassroots groups. You know groups that represent more sympathetic Um characters than some of the largest and richest companies in the world. Um, and you know, apple's relationship with the AP Association is only a small Um sliver of it, but it is representative of how a lot

of lobbying looks right now. So and talked to us about apple's role, how much funding they provide and how much influence they exert. So Um. I spoke with a lot of former employees and people who are familiar with the dynamics within the group and Um. They confirmed that Um, apple makes up more than half of their um annual contributions. Um and in that means that apple was giving at least Um, you know, four point five million dollars, and that is a pretty large price tag when it comes

to Washington trade associations. Even the highest end are usually between one to two million dollars. Um and UH, former employees I spoke to said the percentage of their contributions probably much higher. Um and you know, in my conversations I learned that Um apple lobbyists and lawyers regularly weigh in on, you know, policy positions that the group should take, policy areas the group should focus on. If you look at Um, you know what the group advocates on. The

most antitrust obviously the top priority for apple. Patents, you know certain kinds of patent reforms that apple has prioritized, such as something called Frand Um. Broadband also something apple's interested in. So Um there's pretty much a one to one relationship between their policy priorities and apples. Now, of course, all big tech companies have pretty immense lobbing operations. How does apple, in your experience, differ from, you know, an

alphabet or a Meta or an Amazon? Apple, Um for years has distinguished itself from the other big tech companies by having a much more muted Washington presence. Um, you know, when Steve Jobs even was overseeing the first kind of entry into Washington, he said, I think our products will speak for themselves in the halls of Congress. You know, I don't think we have to play Um. Tim Cook has also carried this forward. I don't think we have

to pay play the dirty Washington Game Games. You know, they don't have a pack, they don't give direct campaign contributions. But these last couple of years, in which apples come under the limelight, have really shown that they have to get engaged and they have to be, you know, uh, telling their story in Washington. They have to be spending money and now they're just kind of catching up with their peers. So what are you going to be following,

especially as we get closer to mid terms? There's obviously legislation, important legislation, moving through Congress on big tech quickly. Yeah, Um, so it's becoming pretty clear that legislation is not coming to a vote before the mid terms. They're leaving open the possibility that it might come to a vote, Um, in the lame duck, you know, after the mid terms.

That is incredibly unlikely. So Um, you know, if Republicans retake the house, as polls suggests they might, Um, probably antitrust will fall back, Um, you know, to back of the shelf and content moderation and censorship claims will come to the floor. So that's what I'm really looking at. Okay, I'm like and appreciate your perspective on all of us. As always. Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome back to bomore technology. I'm emily checking in San Francisco.

Let's get back to the markets and our own lad who has been keeping an eye on Netflix and yeah, it was a really volatile session for Netflix, really pushing higher at the open, then swinging back down to a loss in the middle of the session, ultimately closing up

one and a half percent. Of Catalyst, at least in the early part of this session, was an upgrade from Oppenheimer, the third upgrade we've seen from analysts this month, and I don't think you'll be surprised to hear them that they're really focused in on the potential for an advertising based tier of subscription price target three dollars, raising Netflix to outperform and there is a bit of momentum behind the stock in that sense. So that you come means

my bloombow terminal. I've started this pay a lot of tension this because, give some context, Netflix is a stock. There's down six you see that on the white line in my screen behind me, and it's trading very close to the average twelve twelve month analyst price target. In other words, if you're down and you're trading at where the street thinks you'll be on a twelve month basis,

there isn't much room for upside. So I think it's gonna be really interesting to keep an eye on Netflix and how much momentum does get behind this stock as we move towards an ad based tier for Netflix. I don't know if I'm I don't know about ads. M Yes, it's certainly would change the netflix experience. I got to think about that one. Okay, ed. Thank you. Meantime, Climate

Week has now kicked off in New York City. This summit, taking place alongside the UN General Assembly, brings together international leaders from business, government and civil society to showcase global climate action talk about how tech can help with that. Christian Anderson, Co founder of watershed, of software platform that helps businesses get to net zero carbon faster, is with us now. Christian, thank you so much for joining us.

So you know, the bigger questions. Are these big companies, tech companies in particular, actually making these hard decisions, making compromise and compromises to get to net zero faster? So watershed works with these large companies across industries, across geographies. That's tech companies like AIRBNB and door Dash. That's also big companies in other industries like Walmart, world's largest retailer, like some of the largest asset firms by assets under management.

And our focus with these companies is take a data driven approach to their own supply chains. So for a long time corporate climate was synonymous with low quality offsets and not with actual reduction work on the company's own footprint, and that's where our customers are focusing. So our companies making hard choices. Sometimes, when you gather that data, uh, you might not like what it looks like. It is definitely true that every company who's new to climate work

is surprised by something they learned in the data. But actually, I'd say on the positive side, where for companies, both cost reduction and investment in long term lower risk and better quality technology tend to go hand in hand with their climate work. Now, I think it takes the data

to see that. But these companies I was mentioning, like Walmart or large asset managers, these are these are sophisticated businesses who are known for making business first decisions and who have chosen to double down and triple down on their climate work because these are positive investments for the company over the three plus year time horizon. So you would say that these companies are making those tough calls

when faced with the choice. I would say so. I think the climate action that most companies are gonna take is the climate action that is in the intersection of good for the business and the return on investment for the business on the one hand, and also good for the climate on the other handling companies the the good news on climate now versus ten years ago? Is it ten years ago there just was not enough climate action

that was in the money for businesses. A company that was profit motivated was not going to get far on its climate reduction. That has changed over recent years and technology progress is putting climate action more and more into the money for companies, where now it's the case that, I'd say, every large company with the operational control and its supply chain has available to it ten emission reductions that go hand in hand with sound business investment decision,

and that that's what can be ubiquitous. Some companies will go out of the money on their climate work. What will become ubiquitous is climate action that's good of the business. Can you give us an example of where your technology helped and lead to a business making a certain decision

that was really consequential? Absolutely so. Where businesses often focused early and where watershed directs companies is clean energy purchasing for the company and, over time, for their suppliers as well, where there's public case studies of companies who, by investing in first clean energy for their own what's called in the industry scope, to carbon footprint, and then second investing in energy purchasing for their tier one suppliers, like maybe

the manufacturers that they work with directly, they can both reduce the carbon footprint which for most companies is almost entirely from the supply chain. I think people can think of corporate climate is like the lightbulbs in the office, but no, it's so much about supply chain, manufacturing, heavy industry,

heavy materials. So redirect companies is to that supply chain, to clean energy investment first and then looking for suppliers with alternate agricultural or industrial practices that the company can preferentially purchase from in a way that then brings emissions down. What impact do you think President Biden's climate bill will actually have? I think the impact will be fantastic because

it brings more carbon reduction into the money. Like this was a very business focused bill in a way that I think watershed and our customers found quite exciting, where it was all about subsidy of industry, manufacturing, clean technology development and deployment. So it expands that set of tech that is good for climate on the one hand and

also in the money for businesses. Now will take years in some case to expand the envelope, but part of why I think the data that watershed provides is important to our customers is the decisions that they're making are often about capital investments that will pay off or not for their company long term. That's why the data feels high stakes, like what will be the return on investment,

both from a financial and climate perspective? So these decisions often take years to play out on the multi year horizon. The Inflation Production Act, Biden Bill, I think it's going to be great for bringing more clean to technology into the money for businesses. Were obviously facing a global energy crisis. How do you expect that to impact tech companies decision making and, you know, some of the investments that they're they've been hoping to make, but you know, maybe the

the energy crisis will make them think twice. Watershed has a front row seat on this decision making because the data that we look at for our companies is there, spend data and investment data globally outside the climate context as well, and the the energy crisis is going to be severe for many businesses in many geographies. The tail winds on climate investment, at least over the past three to six months, have been much stronger than any headwinds

and climate investment remains very high. And then, second on the energy crisis in particular, it's this two edged sword where in the immediate term, countries and companies will rightly turn to whatever fuel sources is available, particularly to get

through the winter, particularly in Europe. And then at the same time it's pushing companies to assess what is my carbon exposure and fossil fuel exposure in the supply chain, and I think companies play a very important role as early adopters in new energy sources and new energy projects. Off take agreements there to get projects rolled out and reduce that dependence in the longer term. All right, Christian Anderson, Co founder of watershed, thank you. got a big week

covering climate tech coming up. Meantime, Twitter Co founder Jack Dorsey will be questioned under oath Tuesday and that but he's lawsuit against his longtime friend Elon Musk. According to court filings, Dorsey will be questioned by attorneys from both sides via zoom to day morning. Dorsey was subpoena at last month by Musk. Coming up, cryptocurrency slides to their lowest in months. We're gonna talk about the post merge slump, CRYPTO trends to watch and more with Michael Anderson, Co

founder of framework ventures. This is Bloomberg, a slide of cryptocurracy sent bitcoin to a three month low Monday as sentiment took a knock from a wave of monetary tightening that's set to stretch from Europe to the US this week. And now that the etherory e merge is done, the second largest token, ether is at a two month low, unwinding its short lived jump in June, sparred by the hype around block the blockchain's upgrade. Want to break it all down now with Michael Anderson, Co founder of the

D five focus venture capital firm framework ventures. So, Michael, what do you think is going on here? Are Slump in ether and Bitcoin as well? Yeah, well, I think over the last call of three to six months we've had the build up of the merge. The merge was highly successful last week, Um, and now I think we're entering that period of time where we're searching for a

new narrative. Um. But really what we advise at framework for all of our portfolio companies or entrepreneurs that we meet with is to really take a longer term horizon perspective of these markets. It's really difficult when you have early stage technology meeting public market liquidity, uh, to not pay attention to the to the prices, but it's really important for all of the builders out there to keep

their blinders on and just keep building. If you could pinpoint one or two things, is there something you think

is behind this, whether it's valid or not? Well, I think maybe one of the ideas that was floated is just that this is the unwinding of a number of different trades that were put on that led up to the merge Um, and these trades to be basis trades or or people that you know took out positions and options or futures that related up to the merge itself Um, and I think the unwinding process, in the backdrop of a macro negative sentiment market um is going to have

more volatility than you would expect if it was a different market um from a macro perspective. So what is the Crypto community buzzing about now that the merge has happened and what are you excited to invest in? Well, the marriage was only last week, so it's been just

a little bit of time. But really, when we launched this most recent fund at the end of March, one of the feces that we had that was really poor to this new fund was was gaming and web three gaming, game five being the real narrative that we thought would take over, leading to hundreds of millions of consumers in the space with with Wallets, Um and transacting using these games. Uh and we think that that narrative is actually now in in the crosshairs of what's next, what's to come

over the next three to six months. We think there's gonna be twenty to twenty five games that launch that have a more sustainable model than maybe what we've seen so far with with the lights of vaccin infinity Um and these games are being built by by people who build games before that are for the first time building in the blockchain space Um. So we're really excited to see these entrepreneurs come in and it's only gonna be a couple more months until we see these games launch.

N F T S have been in a bus cycle, but since the merge we've seen N F T S gaining momentum, prices rising. Is this the rebound of the N F T marketer? Is this going to be short lived? Well, one of the things that I think is really important to note about the merge Um, and, and this is one of the success points is just the fact that you have the shift of proof of work to proof of state, representing the amount of energy uh in the

size of the country of Finland Um. So that reduction in the amount of global energy consumption that is required to proliferate this network is a major change and I think the art world in particular has been one of the most negative against the proof of work consensus model because that's what's been required to use and transact in

these N F t marketplaces. Now that we see the shift and the energy reduction, therefore, I think we're going to start to see a lot more activity in the N F t market because the narrative, the negative sentiment, is just gone at this point. Most most N F T S are transacted on proof of state changed after last week. Now I'm curious, given you know your former life at snapchat, where you were a product manager, what

you think about the future of monetizing the metaverse. We were just doing the story earlier about how facebook Meta stock has plunged. Mark Zuckerberg has personally lost seventy one billion dollars, in part because investors just aren't excited about the metaverse or a skeptical about the metaverse. What do you think the opportunities are to monetize in the metaverse? Are you excited about it? Absolutely, Um. I think the definition of the metaverse is a bit of an heabulous one, though. Um.

This is exactly why we're excited about games. Games represents not only a new platform for game developers to build on top of, but really what that means is a new monetization model where free to play games, which have historically monetized at a one to three rate, are probably going to have a different monetization model, different business model altogether, just based on the fact that you're imbuing a value into an n F T which to be represented in

the game, which means that there's a secondary marketplace for it and you're not just spending to be able to spend in the game and then the second that you leave that game, you lose that value. I think that the ability for deam developers to think creatively about how these monetization models can interact with a new type of game, new type of ecosystem, which we might want to call the metaverse. Uh. That, I think, is a fundamental change and a fundamental shift. Um. So when we say we're

excited about gaming. What we really mean is we're excited about the new business models for gaming, because those have been changing rap over the last couple of years. All right, lots to continue to watch. Michael Anderson, Co founder of the defy focus venture capital firm framework ventures, thank you for stopping by. Meantime, Uber said the hacker responsible for last week's data breach is affiliated with a notorious extoration group named lapsis. The group has targeted other tech companies,

including Microsoft, Cisco, OPTA and Samsung just this year. Uber says it doesn't believe the hacker got into its public facing systems, like user accounts or databases that store sensitive information. The ride sharing company says it will continue to work with the FBI and the Department of Justice to investigate. The N F T craze was sweeping Hollywood, with celebrities and studios jumping on the non fungible train, but with Crypto syncing, the enthusiasm seems to be dwindling. Joining us

now Bloomberg's Gasha, so interestingly, Lucas Post etherory emerge. The prices of N F T S have ticked up a bit, triggering some people to talk about maybe rebound. How is Hollywood thinking about N F T s? Well, everything in Hollywood is gonna come a little bit after what's happening in the market, because first you need someone to have an idea, then they have to sell it, then they have to get someone to fund it, then they have

actually make it. Uh. You know, Hollywood, like most industries, got very excited about the potential of of N F T S and Web three. UH, late last year and early this year there were a lot of different projects either using N F P S as sort of a fan engagement tool or as the origin intellectual property or character upon which a property could be based. Um, some of those are still going but, as one person told me, most of the projects kind of dried up overnight earlier

this year. who were the biggest celebrities who were really in on this, and does it seem like they're not into it anymore? Yeah, I mean you have a mix right. So there are the celebrities who just bought N F T s. You know, Jimmy Fallon bought a board, APE, Stephan Curry bought a board. Abe Reese Witherspoon was someone who is very into it. I think it's a mix right there. There, as in the kind of the broader market.

There's some celebrities who, uh, we're just kind of interested in trying it out because it seemed like a quick way to make a money make money or because everyone else was talking about it, and then there's some people who are kind of true believers in its potential. I think most people were probably in the former camp just,

you know, looking to try something out. Ref Reese Weatherston strikes me as someone who maybe they're not gonna end up being able to sell this unscripted show that they had, but will keep exploring and mining that area to see if there's some potential there. Shawn Mendez will see you know he was. He was just on the screen in that graphic. He and his producing partner did option uh an N F T as a potential character. Will you know? I have yet to find out if you're actually gonna

make anything from that character, though. So your sense is that, you know, some folks in the media and entertainment industry will continue to try to explore this, but as of now attention is being diverted to other projects. I mean most of these these big media companies have far more pressing issues right now when it comes to, you know, slowing growth on their streaming services, whether we're going to

enter a recession. There's some of these macroeconomic issues that make kind of sorting out fun more emerging technologies less of a big issue or not on the front burner. But there are people like Dave Brown, who is a kind of creator, the biggest loser, produced a bunch of shows for Netflix, very close friends with Netflix, co CEO Ted Surrando's and he basically stopped making film and TV and he has devoted himself full time to an N

F T company. All Right, Lukashaw, thank you for joining us to Awa and on that we'll keep monitoring how these celebrities and media and entertainment companies continue to weigh in on N F T s. That doesn't for this edition of Bloom brick technology. Tomorrow we've got a conversation with California is Attorney General Rob Bonta his thoughts on state the state's antitrust suit against Amazon. Why? That is

a big deal. You don't want to miss it and don't forget to check out our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I'm emily changing in San Francisco, this is Bloomberg,